Update: Yankees are “quietly” checking in on Josh Hamilton

December 9, 2012 by Michael Axisa 236 Comments

Sunday: Jon Heyman says the Yankees are not in on Hamilton at the moment. They will only seriously consider him if he fell into their laps at a below-market price, which is very unlikely to happen.

Friday: Via Bob Nightengale: The Yankees are “quietly” checking background information on Josh Hamilton, which could be nothing more than due diligence. For what it’s worth, Mark Feinsand notes the team does question how the embattled slugger would fit in New York. There are some major off-the-field concerns here, obviously.

Earlier this week Ken Rosenthal reported the Mariners were talking about a three-year deal worth $20-25M annually with Hamilton, and the Yankees should be all over him at that price. It’s the five, six, and seven-year deals that terrify me. Hamilton would give the team a much-needed middle of the order bat, and he’d protect them a bit against Robinson Cano potentially leaving as a free agent next winter. The Yankees have a strong and veteran-laden clubhouse that would hopefully help him keep his off-the-field problems in check, and even though he’s only a ~125 games a year player, those ~125 games are better than any (non-Nick Swisher) alternative can reasonably give you over a full season.

Mike HC

Agreed completely. A 3 year deal for Hamilton would be a steal.
- MB923
  
  I’d give 4, certainly no more than 5.
  
  4 year/$90-$100 mil?
  
  And I think of Hamilton signs, Cano is gone. No way I see the team getting under the $189 mark with both making $22+ mil a year for the next few years, starting next year.
  - Mike HC
    
    It certainly would soften the blow if we do end up losing Cano. But some commenters seems to think it is possible to keep both, so I guess you never know. If signing Hamilton would absolutely preclude us from re signing Cano, then I’m not so sure.
    
    Either way, I would be down with Hamilton on 4 years too.
    - I am not the droids you’re looking for…
      
      It’s definitely possible to keep both. It means no Granderson but I’m fine with that. Also means more league minimum guys at the margin, probably the bench guys. Again, so be it.
      
      Since I read the Mariner 3 year reports I’ve been all over him.
      - Mike HC
        
        Yea, the depth might have to take a hit. But the trade off would still probably be worth it.
    - BJ
      
      Porque no las dos?
      - Mike HC
        
        no hablo espanol
        
        G
        
        Haven’t taken Spanish in a while, more of a Japanese guy now, but: “Why not both?”
    - Preston
      
      It means no nothing, Cano, Hamilton, CC, A-Rod, Teixeira, Jeter, D-Rob, Gardner and Nova would take up ~ 150 so you’d have to fill out a lot of positions for very cheap. LF, DH/3B, C the bench and nine pitchers. It probably means that we have to fill most of our roster with internal options even filling out the forty man for the minimum would cost like 15 million,so we’d be left with maybe enough to ink one veteran starting pitcher, and a set-up option like bring Hughes Chamberlain back for ~ 15 combined.
- Gerald Williams
  
  YES PLEASE!
  
  Offseason problems mostly solved if we can pull this off.
- dalelama
  
  He like Arod suffers from post season Purple Lip Syndrome.
http://www.twitter.com/_swarlesbarkley Drew

Brian Cashman Ninja Warrior.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2UDqkHZtqE
Lee D

3-4 year deal for Hammy. I would splooge my pants.
- BaltimoreYankee
  
  I would be in for him if we never refer to him as “Hammy” again.
  - Lee D
    
    hammi
The Scout

Given his personal history, I would be afraid to count on him as a cornerstone. If the team is determined to contain payroll, moreover, it can ill afford the risk of another significant chunk of money becoming dead weight. And I’m not persuaded that the Yankee “veteran leadership” is anything like it was a decade ago.
- I am not the droids you’re looking for…
  
  He has a 24 hour a day chaperone, is not allowed to carry cash (true story) and at the end of the day a recovering addict’s ability to stay sober is more about his commitment and surrender than it is about his environment per se. At the extremes it certainly matters, but it’s not like Hamilton should ever be hitting the town regardless, whether that town is Manhattan or Seattle.
  - TomH
    
    How recently have these “problems” of his manifested themselves? I.e., has he been clean 1 or 2 or 3 or more years?
    - Captain
      
      i believe it was last offseason or the one before that where he had a slip up in a bar down in Texas. but i agree with droids above, i don’t see his location being the main issue, he’ll be able to find a place to drink or do whatever in any town they have to play in.
    - Preston
      
      He’s had two publicly known relapses, once during ST, some girls at ASU posted pics with him in a bar. And once he called CJ Wilson to come pick him up at a bar. Both times it was alcohol. I know an addict is an addict, and you shouldn’t do any substance. But having a couple beers and then getting immediately back into your program does seem fundamentally different then doing something more illicit. Although maybe this is a common occurence, and these are just the ones we know about.
Chris

3 years for Hamilton would be tempting, even with his injury and off the field issues.

I suppose it’s a no-brainer that Granderson is gone next year if they sign him (or change course and re-sign Swisher). Although I think it’s almost certain Granderson won’t be back either way given the way the numbers look at the moment.
- CountryClub
  
  Honestly, if they signed Hamilton, I think they’d trade Granderson.
  - Mike HC
    
    That would definitely make sense.
  - Chris
    
    It depends on how they see 2013. If they want to go all in, keep Granderson. Otherwise, they would have to look for a young cheap OF or IF they can deal for Grandy.
  - http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa
    
    Keep both. I think the point would be to add Hamilton to Granderson and try to win. I still don’t see how trading Granderson would improve the 2013 Yankees, the Hamilton signing would be an independent event. They could have both but choose not to.
    - All Praise Be To Mo
      
      Keep Granderson and Cano and let both walk after next year. That OF next year would be nasty, Gardner in CF, Hamilton RF and Granderson LF…
      - Mike HC
        
        That would be a ridiculous outfield to have. Agree it would be tough to break up.
    - Mike HC
      
      It would hurt the team in 2013, but if the return are a couple of decent guys on the cheap for the 2014-2016 payroll, possibly pitchers to replace Kuroda and/or Pettitte, the trade off could be worth it.
      - http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa
        
        There’s also the option of keeping Cano and Granderson in 2013, adding Hamilton, then trading him for a godfather package after the season while re-signing Cano.
        
        Mike HC
        
        That doesn’t sound bad either. Paying Hamilton one year, with no effects on the 2014 budget, and adding at least one premium prospect by trading him. Not bad at all.
        
        Ed
        
        That sounds like a pretty sweet idea.
        
        I am not the droids you’re looking for…
        
        Problem is if he performs well and stays healthy we won’t want to trade him. And if he doesn’t perform well, is hurt, or has a major relapse we won’t be able to trade him. I think we sign only with the resolve that he is here for the duration.
        
        Preston
        
        But if Hamilton has a down year, get’s injured, then what?
    - http://www.twitter.com/_swarlesbarkley Drew
      
      Mike if the plan is Hamilton in RF and Youke as backup 3B/DH would you then be okay with 2 of Stewart/Cervelli/Romine as your catching tandem? I think I would be.
    - Chip Off the Ol’Knoblauch
      
      Yea, 80+ HRs from the 2 of the outfield spots would be amazing. I don’t see why everyone’s so quick to dump Grandy if they do sign Hamilton.
    - JU
      
      Mike, no one is saying a granderson trade would improve the 2013 team. But did you hear something about the world ending before the 2014 season? Do trades only make sense if they provide instantaneous improvement? Granted, the Yankees apparently think so, but can we build an organization here and not just a roster for next year
CountryClub

Cano/Hamilton back to back would be scary this yr. And, as Mike noted, they’d still have a premium bat when they let Cano walk.
- Wil Nieves #1 Fan
  
  It’s illegal for lefties to hit back to back. Girardi Law.
The Real Eddard

This would certainly make up for what little the team did in the winter meetings. Hamilton would give us another premium bat and help make up for A-Rod’s absence. At 3 years you aren’t risking too much. Can he play right field? An outfield of Granderson, Gardner and Hamilton would be pretty good.
http://Twitter.com/erica_lynnnn Erica

NO. NO. NO. ABSOLUTE NO.
- Nick
  
  So you’re saying. . . maybe?
  - 0-fur
    
    50 no’s and a yes is still yes.
    - Max
      
      hahahahahaa
  - http://Twitter.com/erica_lynnnn Erica
    
    Derp.
- 0-fur
  
  Yeah, This has fail written all over it. Maybe they are just trying to drive the price up by showing interest. I think I’d rather have Swisher back if they are looking at a multi year deal for an OF.
  - http://Twitter.com/erica_lynnnn Erica
    
    Yeah. It’s the whole money slash injury-prone slash off-field activities combo that sends me running for the hills. No thanks.
    - 0-fur
      
      Those slashes you mention outway the 292/368/554 slash line he’s put up.
  - Now Batting
    
    Swisher isn’t the same league as Hamilton and has proven he’s a choke artist in the playoffs. If you can get Hamilton on a 3-4 year deal you do it.
    - DERP
      
      Hamilton has terrible playoff numbers.
      - 0-fur
        
        But Swishers are worse because he did it for the Yankees. Other players numbers in the playoffs are fine until they stink for the Yankees! :)
    - Rick in Philly
      
      Josh Hamilton in the playoffs:
      .227/.292/.424, 6 homers, 22 RBI, 14 walks, 23 strikeouts.
      
      But, if you take out his 2010 ALCS against the Yankees:
      
      .205-2-15 in 121 PA’s with 6 walks and 19 K’s.
      - Now Batting
        
        So we’re cherry picking stats now? Swisher has a career .169/.283/.305 line…still worse than Hamilton with his best series removed.
        
        jjyank
        
        His point is that Hamilton has also been bad in the playoffs. This is a really stupid argument. Let’s compare various small sample sizes spread across several years to judge a player? No.
        
        Now Batting
        
        You know how many players would fucking kill to have that “small sample size” in the playoffs? There’s really no debating who the better player is. If the years are the same you obviously take Hamilton.
        
        0-fur
        
        WHo is the better player going forward? That is the REAL questions when it comes to signing a player.
        
        All Praise Be To Mo
        
        Exactly, you know who else had horrible playoff #’s. A-Rod before 2009, when he got hot and almost single-handedly won us the World Series.
        You can’t judge a player based on a small sample size at the end of a 162 game season in cold weather against the best pitchers in the game for the most part.
        
        0-fur
        
        And to be completely honest I was ready to jump through my TV and choke Swisher for his struggles during the playoffs. :)
        
        gc
        
        To be fair, A-Rod’s Seattle AND New York playoff numbers were pretty damn good up until game 4 of the 2004 ALCS (when he and just about every other Yankee stopped hitting). That’s when he fell off a cliff playoff-wise and didn’t come back until 2009. Just saying.
        
        Cris Pengiucci
        
        I think I’d take Hamilton, even with the understanding that he’d probably only play in 125 or so games, and that Swisher would probably play in 150+. Hamilton would still probably add more value in fewer games and would hopefully perform better in the playoffs. Cano/Hamilton/Granderson, hopefully a more consistent and slightly higher performing Tex and maybe even a productive A-Rod (when he returns) would be a pretty scary lineup.
        
        Cris Pengiucci
        
        And even going forward (3 years of each), I think Hamilton provides more value, even factoring in the cost difference.
        
        jjyank
        
        Never said Swisher was better than Hamilton. But if you want to sign Hamilton because he “isn’t a choke artist” in the playoffs, then your argument is a bad one. And those past numbers (for both Swisher and Hamilton) mean absolutely nothing about future playoff performances.
        
        jim p
        
        Mickey Mantel once went 0-for-14 and he SUCKED!
        
        jim p
        
        MantLE. Shoot, just requested a book by Hilary Mantel, hence the brain fart.
        
        Ghost of Joe Dugan
        
        Yogi Berra was awful for his first 100 or so PA’s in the playoffs and then rebounded to post solid #’s.
    - 0-fur
      
      Swisher plays more games, you know what you are getting and has no off field issues. New York City is tough town for a guy who has substance abuse issues.
      - Mr Pappageorgio
        
        yeah cuz Texas doesn’t have drugs, alcohol, or temptation, nor do any of the other cities they travel to 80-some times during the season…
        
        0-fur
        
        I’m not sure this post about me is trolling but here we go… I think everyone can agree that playing in New York for the Yankees is a different animal than almost any other organization. The media, the fans, the surroundings, high profile team mates. He might be fine but as we have seen in Texas he still struggles to stay sober. Taking him out of the environment he is comfortable with and has a support system with and putting him in an unknown situation increases the risk.
        
        Thank you Mr Pappageorgio for you comment. It was truely an intelligent counter point to my comment. I was clearly saying the Texas is drug and alcohol free and you totally called me out on it. Again, thank you.
        
        I am not the droids you’re looking for…
        
        Then you missed the point. His ability to stay sober has less to do with environment than it does with his commitment and surrender. Ask any recovering addict. He has a 24 hour a day chaperone and isn’t allowed to carry cash. He shouldn’t be out on the town regardless of whether the town is Manhattan, Seattle, or Podunk.
        
        0-fur
        
        Then YOU fucking miss the point of not wanting a guy like that on this team that needs to be baby sat and can’t play a full year. He had a 24 hour chaperone last year and what happened? Oh he fell of the wagon!
        
        0-fur
        
        THe fact is the guy struggles with substance abuse and a few times this past year he had some trouble with the media in Texas. Being in New York and playing for the Yankees will not be any easier.
        
        0-fur
        
        Go back READ my post (i’ll help you with the big words) and then reply, umkay?
- jsbrendog
  
  cosign
- jjyank
  
  I’m a little hesitant myself. Also, looks like R-Tils was successful in trading amanda to get you back here.
  - Cris Pengiucci
    
    R-Tils for GM! Fire Cashman!
  - LitFig
    
    No price is too great!
  - Erica
    
    HAHAHA, what did I start here?!?!
    - 0-fur
      
      Nothing but trouble
blake

if they can get Hamilton for 4 years or less then they absolutely should do it and then try to trade Granderson to the Braves.

They would have both Hamilton and Cano for 2013 and Hamilton could act as a hedge against Cano leaving….which he just might do if the Dodgers offer him the moon. Hamilton for 4 years is better better than Cano for 8 or 9.
- CountryClub
  
  “Hamilton for 4 years is better better than Cano for 8 or 9.”
  
  Absolutely.
  - Cris Pengiucci
    
    Agree, though I’d prefer Hamilton for 3 years (I would go to 4, if push comes to shove).
LK

This just doesn’t make any sense to me. Where is this money coming from if they’re actually sticking to 189? And if they’re not sticking to 189, it seems like they would’ve already given up the ruse by now. Either way, Hamilton for 3 years would be great, even though he has his drawbacks.
- CountryClub
  
  most people think they can sign Cano if they want to and still stay under 189. But if they sign Hamilton it would have to mean that they’re letting Cano walk after 2013. It appears they only have room for one large deal (on top of CC, Arod, etc…).
  - I am not the droids you’re looking for…
    
    No. It would mean Granderson is definitely gone whether by trade or letting him walk. It would also mean a couple league minimum guys, probably on the bench, rather than the $2-3mm type solutions we are used to. I am okay with this. They can definitely sign Hamilton and Cano.
    - CountryClub
      
      I’d be shocked if Grandy comes back regardless. I think his age is a factor there.
      
      Not so sure they can sign Cano and Hamilton. Would be interesting to watch it unfold. Guess they need to get Hamilton first, haha.
      - I am not the droids you’re looking for…
        
        Well the math certainly makes it possible. What is less clear is whether the Yanks have the will to do the other things necessary to make it happen, namely:
        -accept the risks that come with Hamilton
        -put league minimum guys at at least a few roster spots
        -let Grandy walk after this or trade him
        
        I however am willing :)
- hogsmog
  
  Well, Jeter and Burnett come off the books for a tune of 30 million/year, and combined with other austerity measures I think it’s certainly doable.
  - CountryClub
    
    Jeter has a player option for 2014 that’s up to 9.5 mil with his silver slugger win.
    
    He does get 3 mil if he turns it down. So I guess it’s possible that he declines it, takes the 3 mil, and then signs a new deal. I think it’ll depend how things go in 2013. If he has another real good yr, he’ll probably decline the option.
    - All Praise Be To Mo
      
      Please decline that option, see you later Jetes.
      - CountryClub
        
        If he declines the option he’s coming back. And why would you want to see him leave coming off a very good 1 1/2 years? Let’s say he has another good yr in 2013….you still want to see him go?
        
        Klemy
        
        Depends, is Andrus available? I’m kidding….sort of?
MB923

Would you rather have Hamilton at 3-4 years or Cano at 7-8 years? If you choose Hamilton 3-4 years, then maybe it’s best to let Cano walk? Make him a qualifying offer. We know for darn sure he wont’ accept it. And we get the draft pick

Overall I’d rather have Cano than Hamilton, but if I had to choose between Cano for 7-8 years or Hamilton 3-4 years, I’d easily choose Hamilton.
- blake
  
  exactly….I don’t think Hamilton will age well at all….but I don’t really think Cano will either because they both have a swing at everything approach and those guys typically start to fade fairly quickly when the physical skills start to erode…
  
  If Hamilton on a 4 year deal could stay close to an elite player for just half of the contract then he’d be worth it and hopefully help bridge the gap to the group of position player prospects that are coming (hopefully).
  
  I’d much rather over pay for a couple of decline years with Hamilton than potentially 4 or 5 with Cano….
  
  A 4 or 5 year deal with Hamilton starting in 2013 is much better than an 8 or 9 year deal with Cano starting in 2014.
- I am not the droids you’re looking for…
  
  You are framing the choice incorrectly. It’s not a choice between Cano and Hamilton bc they can absolutely sign both. It assuredly means no Granderson beyond 2013 of course. It also means a couple league minimum type guys at the margin vs the $2-3mm solutions we are used to.
  - blake
    
    When you add everything up it would be very very tight to get both under the luxury tax if they plan to stick to it…..not impossible but very tight so for all practical purposes I think it is an either or situation unless they change their mind about this 189 business…..
    - I am not the droids you’re looking for…
      
      Well the math says it’s possible. Separate question is whether the Yanks feel that this further concentration of payroll into a few guys is worth it in the face of what that means in the 189 context, namely having at least a few if not several league minimum guys on the roster rather than the $2-3mm type solutions we are used to. Btw, this would make us a lot like the other 28 teams :)
Joba is Einhorn…Einhorn is Joba

saw an interesting thing on another blog that I dont think selig would allow but maybe uf it was done correct he would. according to the writer team option years dont count toward the AAV of the contract.

what if the yanks were to sign him for say 35 million this year with 3 team options at 15 million per. then you can give him 4 years 80 million but the 2014 hit would only be for 15 million

a pipe dream I know
- blake
  
  That’s only one guaranteed year for him though….he’d probably like the 35 million for 2013….but there isn’t much long term security for him in that deal.
JW

Unless Hank has stealthily taken control again, this isn’t happening. Even on a 3-year deal this just doesn’t fit, for a number of reasons. I realize the desperation that we all feel now, but looking at this logically, there’s no way.
- Mike HC
  
  The only reason I see it not fitting is because it might prevent us from re signing Cano under the 2014 budget. What other reasons did you have in mind?
  - I am not the droids you’re looking for…
    
    It doesn’t even do that. What it would do is guarantee Grndersons departure and a handful of league minimum guys for roster spots 22-24 or thereabouts rather than the $2-3mm solutions we are used to.
    
    I am okay with all of this.
    - Mike HC
      
      I’m with you. I just said it “might” have an effect. Surely if we didn’t sign Hamilton, re signing Cano would be even more important. Also, on the off chance an owner offers Cano a ridiculous 10 year deal or something, the Yanks could pass and still be ok.
  - JW
    
    Other reasons? Past and recurring abuse problems. Personality (what the heck was it with the chewing tobacco issues? the vision? etc.). Recurring injury risk on a team that already has plenty of aging, injury-risk players. Risk of performance decline — he’s already 32 and has some hard years behind him. Increased payroll inflexibility beyond just Cano.
Murderers’ Row Boat

So is this just due diligence or Levine messing around again? If they end up signing him through Levine I could see Cashman quitting.
BT

They should spend that money on Cano.
- CountryClub
  
  Cano is going to get at least 8 years. As Blake said above, I’d rather risk Hamilton at 3 or 4 years than Cano at 8-10.
  - Reggie C.
    
    This.
  - Klemy
    
    Seconded.
  - LitFig
    
    Thirded-eded
- I am not the droids you’re looking for…
  
  Not a choice. Can have both.
  - Reggie C.
    
    Your going to have to show me the math on how the Yanks can afford both Cano and Hamilton and still come in under the $189 million.
    
    I don’t see it.
    - I am not the droids you’re looking for…
      
      Check cots for 2014 commitments, and make reasonable assumptions about the arb eligible players currently on the roster (who, as a reminder, can be traded if/as they get too expensive), and you’ll find it completely possible. It just means a lot of league minimum guys othe roster.
Chris in Maine

It would not surprise me if they take a shot at him, knowing that the pitching is not going to be as strong in 2014 as it will be in 2013. I also agree that it likely means not Cano after 2013 and Grandy-Man would likely be trading this off-season. Still does not fix 3rd and catcher, though.
DERP

If it really will take only 3/60-75, I don’t see anyway the Rangers don’t get him.
- Andy Pettitte’s Fibula (formerly Manny’s BanWagon)
  
  100% agree.
  
  If the Rangers let him walk for than contract, I’d be shocked.
http://fendersonandhampton.com Cuso

Those 125 games are better than anything Swisher will give you also.

…whether anyone cares to admit it or not.
blake

It would be extremely difficult to fit both Cano and Hamilton on the payroll and get under the luxury tax in 2014…..not impossible but very difficult….they’d have to fill a ton of roster spots with less than 40 million bucks most likely
- I am not the droids you’re looking for…
  
  Not only can it be done, I think it will be. Tbh the Rangers are a bigger risk to us of losing him than is Seattle IMO.
  - blake
    
    ok here is aprox. how it breaks down for 2014 at the moment in money towards the luxury tax payroll.
    
    Arod: 27.5
    Tex: 23
    CC: 23
    Jeter: 15 (if he plays)
    bonuses: 11
    
    That puts you right at 100 million in AAV and bonuses already on the books….
    
    Arod isn’t hitting his milestone in 2013 now so unless he retires or is medically unable to play he likely will in 2014….that’s another 6 million
    
    Adding both Cano and Hamilton will be another 45-50 million..
    
    So you’d be somewhere between 150-155 million bucks for 6 players….
    
    could they fill out there entire rest of the roster and stay under 189 million….remember Gardner and Robertson and Pineda and Nova and all these guys will be making real money in arbitration by then…..it’s not impossible but it’s highly unlikely.
    - Klemy
      
      Forgone conclusion though that more than one of those players probably won’t be resigned.
- Rick
  
  Everyone says it will be difficult. Rivera, Pettitte, Kuroda all off of the books which more than equals whatever a potential Hamilton signing would cost. Signing Hamilton is more about taking a risk that Pineda will be ready to contribute for a full year in 2014. He theoretically replaces either Pettitte or Kuroda (whatever you choose). Then you are forced to fill the final rotation spot with a Phelps/Nova to keep the cost down. Finally, Rivera presumably retires and the closer job goes to a (relatively) inexpensive internal option. It’s truly not that complicated.
LarryM., Fl.

No, IMHO too risky. I could be narrow-minded but would feel comfortable. The big contract covering concerns me such as Arod, Jeter, CC, Teix,and Cano. Why let Cano who is younger with less issues a far as I know for a possible great bat which could crack like maple.
- G
  
  Hamilton is one year older and it’s looking like he’ll get 3 or 4 years fewer at the same price. Do the math.
Bill

They cant even sign Martin or Chavez. They are just putting that out there to make it seem like they are willing to spend money.

The most important thing for Hal is not winning but the 189 number
28 this year

Could we do a 3/70 with a couple player option years at like 5MM bring down the AAV? Or is that blatant circumvention?
- LitFig
  
  Maybe 1 option year, but nothing more than that. And it would have to be higher than 5 mil for sure
nsalem

1 through 12 we are starting the 2013 season with possibly the strongest pitching in the major leagues. There are still very good trade and free agent options out there for 3rd base and outfield. I strongly disagree with anyone who feel desperation because we weren’t in on the first wave of FA signings. We didn’t lose much by passing and the market will inevitably come to us. I think we will be in good shape for 2013. This despair is overrated and unwarranted.
jjyank

Hamilton at three years? Yes. Four? Maybe. Five plus? Hells no.

That’s my concise stance.
- Chip Off the Ol’Knoblauch
  
  I concur. I think it all hinges on if Texas signs Greinke. If they don’t, I think Hamilton will get his 5+.
Murderers’ Row Boat

If you trade Granderson that gives you a free $15m this year, and then you go from there. He could be had at a 3-4yr/25-30m per
http://www.twitter.com/matt__harris Matt :: Sec110

Hamilton as a Yankee all but assures Cano a goner after 2013. You’d have 5 guys making up $100-110M of the 2014 payroll.
- Klemy
  
  I’m totally okay with that if Cano is getting 8 years.
Scott

I was thinking about this after hearing all of the Mariners talk of 3 years at 25 mil. The Yanks should be all over this guy. Addiction issues an all (which I don’t thing would be an issue)….he’s bad ass and would destroy at YS3!
emac2

Did you really just discard all of your credibility by comparing Hamilton to Swisher?
- http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa
  
  I guess I have. The only available player who could reasonably approximate Hamilton’s 125 game production over 162 games is Nick Swisher. It’s not even that close, the market sucks.
  - 0-fur
    
    But what about ICHIRO!!!! :)
    - Chip Off the Ol’Knoblauch
      
      Dwayne Wise. His bunt turned the season around ya know!
      - 0-fur
        
        Yeah but the loss of Gardner’s GRITitude cost them the season
  - emac2
    
    Swisher doesn’t reasonably approximate Hamilton.
    
    Swisher might reasonably approximate the remaining free agent outfielders but he isn’t Hamilton in any way that gets me thinking about 30 mil a year.
    
    Ichiro is actually closer to Hamilton because you can at least argue that Ichiro has the skills to dominate in some situations. Swisher is simply a good solid player that isn’t that good at anything and doesn’t have a significant effect on any moment in a game unless he is running out a hit.
    - jjyank
      
      Did you really just say that this version of Ichiro is closer to Hamilton than Swisher? Wow.
      - emac2
        
        I said the reasons I would sign Hamilton for huge money would lead me to Ichiro before Swisher.
        
        Neither player is comparable to Hamilton. Swisher is the better comparable because they are both white but you sign Hamilton because he is a game changer. Swisher isn’t a game changer and ichiro is, though not as consistently.
        
        jjyank
        
        Because he’s white? lolwut?
        
        Swisher is a better comparable because he hits for power and is a better player than Ichiro is.
        
        emac2
        
        I’m not saying that Ichiro would have stats that are more similar to Hamilton.
        
        But thanks for playing.
        
        jjyank
        
        So you’re saying that Swisher is better than Ichiro, thus closer to Hamilton in production, but Ichiro is still a better comparable? Do you realize how little sense you are making?
        
        emac2
        
        I know it’s hard to make sense of things you don’t understand but disagree and move on instead of insisting I spoon feed my point in a way you can understand.
        
        I’m not saying what you have decided to conclude from my statements. I’m sorry if I’m not being clear enough.
        
        jjyank
        
        Haha whatever dude. O:S now.
    - http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa
      
      Ichiro has the skills to dominate in some situations
      
      What situation is Ichiro dominating? Catching a fly ball on the off-chance that it’s hit in his direction? The last time Ichiro dominated anything was 2010.
      
      Hamilton had a 140 wRC+ last season, which is amazing. Swisher had a 128 wRC+ last season, which is really good (and makes you sound very silly for saying the he “isn’t that good at anything”). Swisher is not Hamilton, but he’s the only guy available who can come reasonably close to providing the same level of production. We’re not splitting atoms here, this isn’t hard to understand. Don’t let your hate of Swisher make you ignorant to the facts.
      - emac2
        
        Wrc?
        
        What does his WRC tell you that he is really good at?
        
        Catch a fly ball when it’s hit to him? That is so weak I’ll just mention it and move on.
        
        jjyank
        
        I literally have no response other than a hearty laugh. Wow dude.
        
        emac2
        
        Do you actually post every thought you have, even when you have nothing to say about something said to someone else?
        
        That could be a mental disorder.
        
        jjyank
        
        Well to be fair, it’s not my fault that your argument is so asinine that I’m at a loss for words.
        
        You can hate Swish all you want, plenty of people do. But don’t pretend that 39 year old Ichiro can even be remotely closer than Swisher in approximating Hamilton’s numbers.
        
        emac2
        
        It depends which ones you want to approximate.
        
        Ichiro is far superior to swisher in most things that relate to playing baseball but home runs and age are big numbers to some while some compare OBP to cleavage and lose to ability to think clearly.
        
        Ichiro is much better on defense
        He is much better on the bases
        He is much better at making contact when you need someone to be part of a baseball play.
        
        Swisher is better at letting the pitcher decide everything so he’ll help you win games against bad pitchers and hurt you the rest of the time.
        
        jjyank
        
        Over the last 3 seasons, these are Nick Swisher’s and Ichiro’s wRC+s, wOBAs, and fWARs. You know, some of the most comprehensive statistics to judge a baseball player.
        
        Swisher:
        
        2010 – .379 wOBA, 135 wRC+, 4.1 WAR
        2011 – .360 wOBA, 124 wRC+, 3.8 WAR
        2012 – .363 wOBA. 128 wRC+, 3.9 WAR
        
        Ichiro:
        
        2010 – .331 wOBA, 110 wRC+, 4.7 WAR
        2011 – .281 wOBA, 79 wRC+, 0.4 WAR
        2012 – .300 wOBA, 90 wRC+, 2.6 WAR
        
        Swisher has been a better player, and will continue to be a better player.
- Andy Pettitte’s Fibula (formerly Manny’s BanWagon)
  
  It that you Ted?
Chip Off the Ol’Knoblauch

So am I crazy for thinking the Yanks sign Hamilton, trade Gardner to the Braves for Prado, and sign Ichiro and Ibanez? I mean it would seem to plug a lot of wholes until A-Rod comes back.

C – Sack of potatoes with a catcher’s mitt
1B – Tex
2B – Cano
SS – Jeter
3B – Prado
LF – Grandy
CF – Hamilton
RF – Ichiro
DH – Ibanez
- http://www.twitter.com/matt__harris Matt :: Sec110
  
  Screw that, keep Garnder.
  
  C – ?
  1B – Tex
  2B – Cano
  SS – Jeter
  3B – Youk
  LF – Grandy
  CF – Gardner
  RF – Hamilton
  DH – Ibanez and then ARod post July
  - Chip Off the Ol’Knoblauch
    
    Yea, but I think my head would explode if I kept seeing Youk’s ugly mug at 3rd in pinstripes lol.
    - http://www.twitter.com/matt__harris Matt :: Sec110
      
      Ruth, Boggs, Clemens, Damon.
      - Chip Off the Ol’Knoblauch
        
        Oh I know. Just an irationale hatred of Youk that’s all. :D
        
        Chip Off the Ol’Knoblauch
        
        That and I figure if you add Prado, he can man the outfield once A-Rod gets healthy enough to play 3rd.
    - emac2
      
      Well shoot. Lets get rid of Gardner to keep your head from exploding.
      
      good plan.
      - Chip Off the Ol’Knoblauch
        
        I thought so. My head has a vested interest in this deal.
        
        emac2
        
        Self preservation is a powerful force! :)
- jsbrendog
  
  granderson needs to stay in cf. hamilton cant stay healthy. put him in rf. you need him healthy
  - Chip Off the Ol’Knoblauch
    
    True. I was going for best defensive alignment, since without Gardner, there’s really no CF. When healthy though, Grandy and Hamilton would absolutely mash so I guess defense alignment shouldn’t be problem.
emac2

I would trade Granderson and Tex to free money for Hamilton but I would try to get Hamilton on a series of self renewing 1 year contracts for 30 instead of a multi year at 25 if possible. The best way to keep addiction in check is for everyone around him to know he may or may not get 30 mil next year.
- DERP
  
  We should probably trade A-Rod too. I have heard his contract isn’t very good.
- http://www.twitter.com/matt__harris Matt :: Sec110
  
  please, please tell who takes Tex? Remember, the Dodgers have a firstbaseman.
  - emac2
    
    Mariners
    - http://www.twitter.com/matt__harris Matt :: Sec110
      
      Smoak, and if he doesn’t pan out, you know that’s where they move Montero.
    - Rick
      
      Forwarding your advice to Cashman. He is really going to appreciate the advice!
    - jjyank
      
      And how about Tex’s no trade clause?
      - emac2
        
        Does it include Seattle?
        
        jjyank
        
        It includes every team.
        
        emac2
        
        That would rule out Seattle. We’ll have to send Granderson to Seattle and move Tex somewhere he wants to go.
        
        Klemy
        
        This. Trading him to a non-contender is dreaming.
http://aol amanda

please just make this happen before red sox get him
- DERP
  
  Isn’t Boston out of outfield spots at the moment?
  - Reggie C.
    
    Not if they trade Ellsbury.
All Praise Be To Mo

If he’s only looking at 3 years $20-$25 million from Seattle, why not offer him a 1 year $30-$35 million deal to let him get monster #’s @ YS3 and hit the market again next year?
- http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa
  
  Texas wasn’t a bad place to hit. His numbers won’t improve much, if at all, with the move to NYS.
- DERP
  
  I was going to ask what are the fewest dollars that Hamilton would take on a one year deal. I think it will take more than 35MM though.
Rick

I see it now. Hamilton signs with the Mariners after Mike (a/k/a Florence/Bob Nightengale’s report) gets everyone excited. F you Cashman! Wait, that’s not right…
upstate yanks

Wow, easy on all the updates today Mike! Its 10:30 and the only thing posted is news from 3 hours ago.
Reggie C.

4 year, $100 million … sure. I’d do that for Hamilton in a heart-beat. Hamilton would feast in the new YS and challenge the 40 homer mark each season even if he missed 30 games on average. He’s a far superior hitter than Granderson and so long as the 3B coach doesn’t send Hamilton towards a home plate collision, Hamilton can probably repeat a few more 140 plus game seasons.
Scott

C’mon ninja….this will solidify things for 2013. Cano is going to want 8+ years at record prices…and we shouldn’t do that. This will guarantee we maintain production at only a 3-4 year cost….just in time for some of our minor leaguers to come up. I like the Granderson trade thoughts if Hamilton is signed.
http://www.twitter.com/matt__harris Matt :: Sec110

Ok, Yanks sign Hamilton. What can Cano fetch you back in a trade?
- Reggie C.
  
  I’d venture to say an acquiring team would part with a good prospect and a useful ML player, but I can’t imagine that team parting with more than that. Especially not for 1 year of Cano who Boras probably has convinced that there’s a Pujols like contract waiting.
- Kosmo
  
  Rendon, Goodwin, Ramos and 1 other piece.
CashmanNinja

The *ONLY* way Hamilton for 3 or…ugh…4 years, would be if they 100% had a trade set up for Granderson where they’d get good value in return. That’s the only way I think they’d pull the trigger. I like Grandy, but I just don’t see him as being here long term. He’s already on the wrong side of 30 and he’s going to eventually have to switch to a corner OF spot by the looks of it. Hamilton’s offense is great, but I’m really…really…against him based on his past off-field history. Plus it could mean bye bye to Cano sooner rather than later as well.
- CountryClub
  
  Jerry Crasnick ?@jcrasnick
  #Braves GM Frank Wren said the team has interest in some one-year outfield stopgaps. He calls them “Caliparis.”
- mitch
  
  I don’t get why granderson and/or cano have to be traded if they sign hamilton. Keep them all and head into 2013 with a monster lineup. After the season you can let grandy walk and figure out if a cano contract works with the payroll limitations
  - CountryClub
    
    Your scenario is very possible. I would only trade Granderson if I was getting something back of real value. A 3rd baseman? A pitcher? The key would be they’d have to be under team control for a few years.
  - emac2
    
    I don’t think they want to add that much salary this year.
    
    Trading Granderson also get’s you something significant
Scott

C’mon ninja….this will solidify things for 2013. Cano is going to want 8+ years at record prices…and we shouldn’t do that. This will guarantee we maintain production at only a 3-4 year cost….just in time for some of our minor leaguers to come up.
- CashmanNinja
  
  But the problem is we aren’t developing minor league players very well. Our prospects seem to suck when they come up, unless they’re playing for other teams. We just can’t develop many. Joba wasn’t what we thought he’d be, Hughes has been good, but not great. Phelps has shown glimpses, but tons of other guys have been hurt or just fallen off the map (it happened with Brackman, Betances, etc). If we had guys waiting to take over then I’d agree, but as much as I like David Adams’ potential I don’t know if he could take over for Cano. The free agent crop won’t be particularly impressive for infielders. What we really need to pray for is that we have pitchers who really step up because we’re going to be in a world of hurt with trying to get under the $189 mil threshold AND replace Pettitte, Kuroda, possibly Hughes/Nova, on top of keeping Cano, etc.
  
  This whole $189 mil limit sucks to come right now. I think that the CBA really screwed us by setting it up so quickly. I feel that, in order to not screw teams who signed guys to previous long term deals, it should have been put in place to vest in a few more seasons — as some of the big deals were ready to come off the books. But instead it happened now and we literally get screwed by past contracts of A-Rod, Tex, etc.
Andy Pettitte’s Fibula (formerly Manny’s BanWagon)

I’d take Hamilton in a heartbeat at 3 years but assuming he gets $25 million AAV, the Yankees can’t really afford to give him any longer.

It would be too risky considering the albatross they already have in Arod and Teix’s deal is looking worse very year too.
Gonzo

This reminds me of other fan bases thinking they could sign Fielder for 4/5 years. I’ll need to see it to believe it.
- CountryClub
  
  yeah, yanks would have to add a yr to get him from TX. If they’re both offering 3 or 4 years, he’s staying in TX.
Kosmo

Texas only wants or allegedly wants to give Hamilton 4 while Hamilton wants a 5th year. I would definitely add a mutual option for a 5th year if it brings Hamilton to NY. 5 yrs 112 mil.
Funny NY could have Swisher for 1/2 that amount.
- Mike HC
  
  Better to overpay for the great superstar in free agency, then overpay for merely the very good.
  - emac2
    
    Amen!
Knoxvillain

Yankees sign Hamilton for a 4/100 with a fifth year option at 20 million or a 5 million buy out. Sign Youkilis to the 1/12, and just keep one of Stewart/Cervelli/Romine at catcher.

C- One of those three
1B- Tex
2B- Cano
3B- Youkilis
SS- Jeter
LF- Granderson
CF- Gardner
RF- Hamilton
DH- Ibanez or whoever

Too bad it won’t happen, but it would be really nice. It would also be nice for more of “da bankees r destroyeing baesball cuz they singed hamilton” shit.
Coolerking101

3 year deal would be great, but I’m not buying this story is true. I think it’s much more likely that this story was planted by Hamilton’s agent to drive up his price.
- JohnC
  
  you may be right, but you never know. Levine seems to be wielding alot more power these days, and if it is true, you can be sure this is his move, not Cashman’s. They’ve done this before with Soriano, so we can’t dismiss this entirely until Hamilton actually ends up with another team. In any case, I’d be infavor of signing Hamiton as long as it doesn’t exceed 4 years. I suggested before a 4 year deal with an opt out after 2.
mick taylor

seattle has legal pot . great place for him to go.
Mr. December

In the end there is no way your going to get Hamilton for 3-4/$75-$100 million. I’m sure Texas would jump on that. I have to believe that before the dust settles he will get his 5th year and that price would be too high.

Also keep in mind he last fell off the wagon last winter and that was the second relapse in the past 3 years. It matters. If he should relapse during the season you could see him missing significant playing time. On top of that people around him have said that some of his issues at the plate this year were due, in part, to his attempt to quick using chew. Really do we want that kind of drama?
- Mike HC
  
  He OPS’d .930 this year. Hit 43 homers and drove in 128. Played in 148 games (same amount as Swisher last year). I don’t see the “issues at the plate.”
  - Zack D
    
    Well he did hit .259/.323/.510 with a 29 K% the 2nd half of the year, and he’s the one who brought up issues bothering him at the plate.
    
    I would have loved to see how he’d react to the trashing he’d get if he tried his “My blue eyes make it hard to play daytime baseball” skit. Or blaming too much caffeine and sport drinks for vision problems. Or lets chewing tobacco cause some huge secret disobient shit for a few days.
    
    Hamilton brings all this stuff up, no one else.
- dalelama
  
  In additional he like Aroid and Swisher has a record of post season extreme gaggage.
Ryan

What kind of extension are we lookin at wit cano say 8 yrs 180 mill ? anymore than that and they need to stay away .
I imagine another nightmare scenario where yanks sign him for 10 yrs 250 no way yanks kick themselves in the nuts again right?
Ryan

If the yanks can sign Suzuki for RF sing youk for 3b dh Nunez and sign ibanez for lefty dh they’ll be fine. No need to panic and screw the future .
mrdbag

Why would anyone not want Hamilton? Your talking about one of the most naturally talented players in a generation in Yankee stadium! I say get him and trade granderson. Swisher does not belong on the same field as swisher. About the substance abuse? The Yankees have access I’m sure to outreach people a d programs and I’m sure they will accommodate Hamilton as needed. Also the rangers are trying to get Upton and greinke if that occurs Hamilton is much more accessible. Iam curious if Yankees are running background check wouldn’t Hamilton have to consent
- Brian S.
  
  I don’t think there is another corner outfielder available that would be better than Granderson. Sign Hamilton for 3-60 and keep Grandy for his one year.
mrdbag

Swisher does not belong on the same field as Hamilton
mick taylor

seattle has legalized pot. that is the worse place for hamilton to go. he will get stoned just walking in and out of the stadium. he will have to change his name to ripped hamilton
- Matt M
  
  Pretty sure pot is not the issue here
Sean A

I did a little research on big ticket free agents coming to the Yankees and winning the World Series right away and the results weren’t great. Only 4 have managed to do it, 2 are still on the roster CC and Tex. One is in Pittsburgh AJ, and the other of course is in the Hall(Reggie). I give honorable mentions to David Cone because he was a big ticket item in 95-96 offseason but he was already on the team. and also to El Duque because he won but was an unproven mlb commodity.You can also give props to Dave Winfield who got to WS in 1st year but couldn’t win as well as Jose Contreras. Some notable failures Don Baylor, Steve Kemp, Ed Whitson Jack Clark and Jason Giambi
- dalelama
  
  You failed to mention the biggest failure of all—Aroid. We are going to end up squandering over $300M on that cheat with only the title that Damon and Matsui delivered to show for it.
  - Brian S.
    
    Yeah A-Rod had nothing to do with the 2009 title. That was all Damon and Matsui.
    - dalelama
      
      The guy made $25M that year, played in only 124 games, and hit .250 in the WS. Matsui and Damon were the giants that year while Aroid choking less than usual certainly didn’t earn his pay or lead the team. Godzilla and Johnny Baseball lead while Aroid followed.
      - Get Phelps Up
        
        Amazing how you aren’t banned yet.
        
        JobaWockeeZ
        
        I fail to see how anyone warrants banning for expressing an opinion no matter how stupid.
Brian S.

With Pettitte, Kuroda, Rivera, and Granderson coming off the books next season I don’t see why we couldn’t keep both Hamilton and Cano. The team will just need to let some league minimum young players play for us next year. The Marshall’s, Turley’s, and Almonte’s (or Austin’s?) of the world will need to be given a shot. I mean, the Yankees have a shitload of options if you actually follow the farm.
Reuben Sierra’s Chains

All I want for Christmas is Hamilton.

Sign him up and throw him a couple of 8-balls as a signing bonus. I couldn’t care less about his addiction issues. All I care about is him in Yankee stadium with that short porch in Right.
mustang

I see that Hal got visit by the ghost of Christmas past, present and future all in Gorge form.
Jamey

I don’t see anything coming from this or am all that interested in getting him, but in all seriousness I think the NY media spotlight could help just as much as people worry about the nightlife & pressure getting to him. His relapses have tended to be him walking into some place not expecting to be spotted, whether he’s in New York or simply just a Yankee on the road he’s very unlikely to be in those situations. Especially since you damn well know certain media members would essentially start stalking him waiting for even the slightest slip, “Straw That Stirs the Mixed Drink? JOSH HAMILTON SPOTTED 15 FEET FROM A LIQOUR ESTABLISHMENT!”
Nick_BD

This only happens if they use Cano’s contract money. Mike you put on Twitter would you rather 3/4 years of Hamilton or 8+ years of Cano? I know I’m in the minority I’d take the Hamilton one right now to be honnest. See what you get for Cano/Granderson in a trade.
- Ted Nelson
  
  They can sign Hamilton and re-sign Cano, they’ll just have to go low-cost at other spots.
  - Laz
    
    I don’t want cano for 8 years though. 5 is fine, but 2B have a very hard time staying healthy late into their careers. Also the fact that cano doesn’t have great plate discipline, once he isn’t able to make contact with everything he could really drop off.
    - Ted Nelson
      
      I’d bet he gets 7 years minimum. I can see a team going 8 or 9, but unless he bombs 2013 I don’t really see the best offer being under 7. Maybe I underestimate how 2B thing, though.
      
      Part of the 2B thing may be the demands of the position, but I think more of it is just not having many good 2B to judge. Many of the 2B who are good are speed players, which is a skill that tends to be lost early (Cano was literally dismissed by a lot of teams for not running a fast enough straight-line sprint… how much that has to do with playing 2B, I’m not sure… but that was the standard for scouting amateur 2B historically). Part of it is also just players outside the steroid era not tending to get better well into their 30s. There have been good 2B who stay good pretty long.
      
      Cano is also a guy who could slide to 3B and still be an elite bat. (His .370 wOBA puts him right there with the top 2B the past 5 seasons, but it would also only put him .004 behind 4th place at 3B… even in LF he’d be just .003 from #5). If you’re worried about the rigors of 2B going forward and don’t think it’s already irreparably worn down his body, try him at 3B or in LF.
      - Hardcore Yankee Fan
        
        Apart from Jeff Kent and maybe some others, premier second baseman have not held up well at all. Hornsby, Morgan, Biggio, Alomar, Sandberg, Maz, Randolph all see rapid declines beginning in their early 30s. Even others that might have held up okay, they seem unable to play anything close to full time. History is definitely not on Can’s side. The Yanks would be foolish to sign Cano for anything more than 5 years, 6/120 would be tolerable and a gift.
There’s the Door

Tremendous player. Feels like he would be a great Yankee.
endlessjose

3 years 90 million sounds good and let Cano walk next year.We know Hamiliton can hit here and he can hit in the postseason.
Andy Pettitte’s Fibula

This is why Cashman Ninja is such a great GM. He’s willing to sign Hamilton if he can get him for a well below market value deal.

/Ted Nelson.
- Ted Nelson
  
  Ironically you almost make a decent point. Not rushing to overpay for immediate solutions is one mark of a great GM.
  
  Funny that you make better points when you’re trying to be wrong.
  - Andy Pettitte’s Fibula (formerly Manny’s BanWagon)
    
    Yeah because every other GM in baseball wouldn’t be interested in signing Hamilton for a well below market value deal too.
    
    All the other GMs would prefer to run out and offer him a long term huge money deal…..oh wait, that didn’t happen, did it??

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