Monday Night Open Thread

February 11, 2013 by Mike Axisa 104 Comments

It’s the last open thread of the offseason, so some Robinson Cano highlights are in order. Pitchers and catchers are scheduled to report to Tampa tomorrow, and Joe Girardi will hold his annual start-of-camp press conference in the morning. I wouldn’t expect much news, though maybe someone will ask him about the team’s plans for Eduardo Nunez or the starting catcher’s spot. One thing we do know is that because the Yankees will have 84 (!) players in camp, the numbers 87-99 will be worn by two players. That should be a blast.

Here is your open thread for the night. Both the Islanders and Nets are playing, but feel free to talk about whatever you want here. Go nuts. Oh, and the spam filter is still being a pain. Thanks for your patience.

Bob Buttons

Too bad we don’t have a knuckleballer, or Nunez would be perfect for catching him.
He doesn’t even need to be taught about the part where you let it go through to the backstop.
thenamestsam

I threw this out there in a sub-sub-sub section of the Cano thread today so I don’t know how many people saw it, and it’s better suited to an open thread anyway, so here comes a crazy hypothetical:

I guarantee you that the New York Yankees will win the World Series this year, except the condition is that they have to completely trade rosters with the Red Sox today. So they’ll win the World Series, but Pedroia will be at 2nd when they do it, and Ellsbury in CF, and Lester and Lackey in the rotation. If you don’t do it I guarantee you that the Yankees won’t win the World Series this year. After this year the rosters will trade back.

Do you do it?
- LK
  
  To me the fact that the rosters trade back after this year is a pretty important wrinkle.
  
  I do it. I don’t expect that to be the popular opinion around here, but once a guy puts on pinstripes I’m rooting for him. It doesn’t matter how much I disliked him before. I rooted for Clemens, rooted for Damon, and I’m going to root for Youkilis this year.
  
  There also, for me, isn’t really anyone I truly dislike on the Red Sox anymore other than Ortiz now that Beckett and Papelbon are gone.
- Bob Buttons
  
  No. Flags fly in the park and on the team page (plus the year’s page and league page), but “teams played for” are on the player pages.
  - LK
    
    Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t get what you’re trying to say.
    - Bob Buttons
      
      Oh it’s just a play on flags fly forever.
      
      Simply put, sure you can enjoy the flags once in a while, but is it really enjoyable knowing that you won with a bunch of guys primarily known for their careers in Boston WHILE trading your lifer guys like Jeter and Rivera away just for that one measly flag?
      
      Situation would be totally different if that one flag makes a big difference but come on, we are what? 17 WS championships ahead of the next team?
      - LK
        
        Yeah, we’re 17 championships ahead, but while I love the Yankee tradition, all those titles before I was born don’t really resonate with me on any kind of individual level, it just feels like one big block of winning. The experience of a title team is still unique enough that I don’t need any kind of long term connection to the players to make it special for me. That stuff is nice, but ultimately not necessary. Just my opinion.
        
        Bob Buttons
        
        As the baseball history geek amongst my friends (needless to say I pale in comparison to your average pride of the site guys) I have major admiration for the past Yankee greats and I’m still sad how Yogi was a Met, how Lefty Gomez was a Senator, etc. and I’d hate to see such blemish on Jorge, Jeter, Mo (esp. Mo), etc.
        
        That and the very thought of booing the guys I’ve cheered for for years and cheering for the guys I’ve booed for for years disgusts me, that’s all. Feels remotely like your best friend stabbed you in the back and your nemesis is beating the heck out of your former best friend after hearing about the backstabbing.
- jjyank
  
  That’s a tough one. I’m going to say no, just because I have no connections with those players. That’s not limited to the Red Sox, but any other roster. Part of what makes a championship so great for me as a far, is seeing the guys I idolize and have cheered for celebrating. If it was a full roster swap, and all 25 players I was watching win the World Series were guys that I’ve never watched even semi-regularly before would just kind of feel like watching a team other than the Yankees.
  
  Sure, in 2009 I had plenty of fun watching and cheering for newcomers in Swisher, AJ, CC, and Tex. But there was still Jeter, Mo, Cano, Andy, Posada, etc. A completely new roster wouldn’t be the same for me.
  - jjyank
    
    as a *fan*. Boo spelling.
    - Preston
      
      Maybe after watching them for 162 you’d feel differently. I wouldn’t do it with the Red Sox, but maybe another team.
      - jjyank
        
        Maybe. But I don’t think I’d make this deal hoping that would be the case.
- Get Phelps Up
  
  I would not. As other people have mentioned, a big part of the Yankees winning the World Series is the Yankees players winning it. Getting to see them celebrate on the field and then get their ring next spring. It just wouldn’t be the same to see the Yankees win it with players who will just be there for it. Also, to have it guaranteed that they would win would also take some of the fun out of it, IMO.
  - Get Phelps Up
    
    Also this is going to probably be Mo’s and Pettitte’s last year, so I’d want to win it with them.
- Improbable Island’s Dirty Midget Whores (formerly RRR)
  
  Ooooh, good question. I say yes. I root for NY, specifically the franchis the NY Yankees, and I root for the specific players because they play for NY. Yeah, we have our fan favorites, but if different players were on the team we’d have new fan favorites. Give me the WS, I’ll take
- Bo Knows
  
  No, because it’d be YONO (Yankees in name only) I’ll root for the stripes but I would find my heart in Boston for that year because your talking about guys that many of us grew up watching, guys who many of us will call some of our favorite players.
- MannyGeee
  
  NOPE. Sorry, but I think you lost me at Captain Awesome getting a ring in Pinstripes. I can swallow Pedrioa (barely) and Ellsbury and even Lester… But hells no to Lackey on my team.
  
  Only partially tongue in cheek, and I would likely get over the whole situation in October… but fuck John Lackey
- Mike HC
  
  No. That is like selling your soul for a World Series, which you will realize was not worth it when it hits you the excitement of actually winning a WS was completed stripped down and robbed from you. The surprise and non guarantee of success was taken from you and you have no emotions for any of the players because you never rooted for them before this year and will never root for them again after this year.
- Herby
  
  the biggest part of the hypothetical is the roster of the Red Sox winning the World Series. I still wouldn’t do it. There are some Yankee greats that I wouldn’t want to see having their last year wearing a Red Sox uniform.
- Robinson Tilapia
  
  What fun is a guarantee?
  - LK
    
    The way I took the hypothetical is you make the decision knowing there’s a guarantee, but then you get to watch the season like you would normally with all the uncertainty involved. I’d agree that if you actually know the outcome the games wouldn’t be interesting at all.
- forensic
  
  I wouldn’t. A lot of the fun is the journey and the unknown of what may happen. And though we mostly root for laundry, I wouldn’t enjoy it as much with some of the people that I’d have to root for then.
Bob Buttons

http://riveraveblues.com/2013/.....nt-5765592

Just because I hate being told I’m wrong when the other person doesn’t even correctly interpret what I’m saying.

1) They don’t have a good chance to contend in the near future. Tigers for the next couple of years, and then Royals will rise up to win. They can’t afford to be in middle ground right now.
Also, Indians payroll have pretty much stayed the same for the past decade. There is actually a petition online to get Larry Dolan to sell the team.
http://www.change.org/petition.....nd-indians

“And nothing Larry Dolan does, short of winning a World Series, (as evidenced by 2007), will be good enough for the fans to give even average support this team.”

Team sucks, they can’t earn money because team sucks, and the owner is too cheap to take a bit more revenue and put it into the team, capiche?

2) See Rodriguez, Alex or Escobar, Yunel

3) We had a good line-up to support our good pitching. They have a much worse line-up with much worse pitching. Plus, their division is mostly teams that can hit okay. It won’t be close. Simple enough?
- Improbable Island’s Dirty Midget Whores (formerly RRR)
  
  Just because I hate being told I’m wrong when the other person doesn’t even correctly interpret what I’m saying.
  
  http://xkcd.com/386/
  - Andy
    
    xkcd is the comic of the gods. Well done good sir, well done indeed.
Jacob the OG(formerly Jacob)

Oh Cano, teach me to swing!
RetroRob

Give some player a triple-digit number. They’ll need them eventually if they insist on retiring the numbers of every Tom, Dick or O’Neill.
- Jacob the OG(formerly Jacob)
  
  BUT TEH MUST RETIRE 33 FERR SWISHER!
  - Herby
    
    They can embroider a 33 on the left back pocket of their uniform for a year, so when they slide they can be reminded of him.
- Robinson Tilapia
  
  They can just give guys numbers in Spanish.
  
  Alex is 13, but Mustelier? Yup, number trece.
Pinstripes In Cali

Can anyone explain to me how it is this video is on YouTube? Doesn’t MLB Advanced Media usually put the kaibash on that relatively quickly? Has anything changed?
- Gonzo
  
  Any rebroadcast, reproduction or other use of this game without the express written consent of Major League Baseball is prohibited.
  
  I remember hearing this as a kid and thinking how serious that sounded. Thank you Mister Rogers!
bkight13

If the Yankees get to the $189M limit in 2015 or 2016 do they still reset the luxury tax or is it by 2014 or bust. It seems like 2104 is a bad time to trim the payroll with all the huge contracts already on board and our young OFs still a couple years away.
- Bob Buttons
  
  They could always trim and get more rebate but 2014 is the first year and they need to stay under it for the entire season for them to get the rebate. Forgot how it works specifically but they get more rebate if they do it in 2014, I think.
  
  Also, by 2017 (or whenever current CBA ends) they might have a different set of rules so that’s your best guess or mine by then.
  - bkight13
    
    I know it’s not my money, but the Yankees have plenty thanks in part to YES and the new payments, but aren’t we only talking about $20-40M? The Yankees make that by going to the playoffs every year. I say ride out the Jeter-Mo-ARod era and go for one more title. In a few years when the young OFs might be ready and a couple of the young SPs pan out, then they can go cheap.
    - Bob Buttons
      
      I don’t have an answer for that so maybe someone else can get an answer for you. All I know is Forbes valued the Yankees at over 1.8 Billion as of March 2012.
    - Herby
      
      Of course it’s your money, it’s every fan’s money. They buy the tickets, pay the parking, spend the money for the MLB network. Without that money the team would be broke.
Chip

I forgot what a giant man crush I had on Cano until I watched those highlights. I changed my mind, give him 8 years at 23 million per season. Otherwise I’m going to be pissed when 32 year old Cano hits 40 homers for the Cardinals
- Jacob the OG(formerly Jacob)
  
  Cano is my favorite (non-Jeter) baseball player, and I would absolutely love him to still be a Yankee untill he retires but if it is for the good of the team to have him hitting 40 homers for the cardinals then so be it. BUT only if that means we get the god send Oscar Taveras, Koltan wong, and a pitching prospect. If not then Cano goes no where, actually I would still rather keep him than trade him but I digress
- Laz
  
  And how will you feel watching 39 year old Cano hobbling around?
  - bkight13
    
    They same way we feel about Jeter, Mo and Pettitte
    - Jacob the OG(formerly Jacob)
      
      they don’t hobble, they go out and show the rest of the team how to play
      - Jim Is Bored
        
        This narrative is so dumb.
        
        As if Kuroda needed someone to show him how to play.
        
        I love watching them even in their old age, but for the love of God, everyone on that team is a professional who’s been playing baseball since they before they were in school. There may be rare cases of young guys who need to learn, but that is by far the exception, not the rule.
    - Robinson Tilapia
      
      Thank you.
  - Bo Knows
    
    Same way I’ll feel about a 39 yr old Jeter hobbling around, perfectly fine. I might hate the decline years but I’ll have zero issues if Robbie is the last player they give the “drunken sailor at a whorehouse” discount but they need to kill that idea about not extending guys before until they are FA’s.
    - Bob Buttons
      
      39yr old Jeter might actually try his best to hobble to first
      
      39yr old Cano.. wouldn’t be surprised if he walked straight back to the dug out after he hits a grounder.
  - Herby
    
    big stretch saying he’ll be hobbling around, or do you predict the future too?
    - trr
      
      my prediction is he’ll be 50 lbs overweight by the time he’s 39
      - Herby
        
        Are you just hoping to have something in common?
forensic

Sorry for my lack of patience last night with my ‘wonky spam filter’ rant. Frustration got the best of me, though I know you’re just as frustrated as some of us are.

Boy do I hate those condescending ‘we’ll refund your money’ type of replies though…
- RetroRob
  
  The check’s in the mail for a Saturday, but only a Satuday delivery.
- Jim Is Bored
  
  I actually think the spam filter is something you can complain about. It prevents us from interacting with each other how we normally would.
  
  The bitching about typos on the other hand, is completely different.
Need Pitching & Hitting (but mostly hitting)

Michael Bourn to the Indians?
- Get Phelps Up
  
  I guess Brantley or Stubbs will be on the block then.
  - Jacob the OG(formerly Jacob)
    
    give me give me give me
  - forensic
    
    They would seem to me to be an easy LF platoon rather than just trading one.
    - Get Phelps Up
      
      I don’t think they’ll turn Brantley into a platoon player. He wasn’t too bad against LHP last year and he’s been steadily improving in basically all offensive categories ever since his debut.
      - Need Pitching & Hitting (but mostly hitting)
        
        Seems like they can keep all. Stubbs probably shouldn’t be an everyday player anyways.
        Stubbs could sit frequently vs. RHP. Against LHP, they could occasionally sit Bourn or Brantley, or have Swish DH/1B.
        
        Not sure Indians will go that route, but it doesn’t seem like it would be a big problem finding adequate deserved playing time for all involved.
      - forensic
        
        Maybe, but I’m not sure how much stock I put in that one year, which still had a sub-.700 OPS. Stubbs can really hit lefties and his speed could be an asset off the bench in the games he’s not starting.
- MannyGeee
  
  Allow me to channel my inner dalelama and say that “I prophet-sized” the Bourn signing to an underdog and also that he would be a tremendous value.
  
  In all seriousness, I didn’t see the Tribe in the running for Bourn AT ALL and I think at $12M per he’s a significant value. Also, he shouldn’t lose ALL his speed in those 4 seasons.
  - Herby
    
    The thought of channeling an inner dalelama is too scary to comprehend…my condolences.
    - MannyGeee
      
      I felt dirty doing it.
CashmanNinja

What does this mean for the pick we’d get for losing Swisher?
- Need Pitching & Hitting (but mostly hitting)
  
  I believe the Braves would now get pick #31 ahead of the Yankees and the Yanks comp. picks would drop from #31 & 32 to #32 & 33.
  - RetroRob
    
    Damnit. The next Mike Trout is at 31!!!
    - Robinson Tilapia
      
      Damn you, Mark Teixeira!
- CountryClub
  
  According to rosenthal, yanks get the Indians 2nd rd pick now. So they’re out of the sandwich rd.
  - Need Pitching & Hitting (but mostly hitting)
    
    Indians lost their second round pick for signing Swisher. Yankees don’t get that pick. All teams that lose qualified free agents get sandwich round picks, not the other team’s lost pick.
    - CountryClub
      
      Nice
Barry’s Gift Basket

For R. Tilapia,

I couldn’t answer when you asked if i thought that CC would fight for the 5th spot in two years, wasn’t the case. English is not my natural language so sometimes is dificul to me to express myself. I’ll paste what was supposed to be my answer.

“Sorry had to work,

No, but he won’t be worth what he will earn (most likely).

And i get that you have to do that to get those players to sign with you, but there has to be a limit regarding how many times the team is gonna do that.

And when it comes to FA you “have” to do that, because if you don’t somebody else is gonna do it. When it comes to homegrown players you don’t have to overpay for them, you already had them for the best of their careers at below market prices. If the yankees want to remain competitive with a spending limit they have to do more of the later and less of the former. Sadly it should start with Robbie, sadly, because don’t think i’d enjoy that much a team without him, but IMO they should let him go. ”

Greetings.
- Robinson Tilapia
  
  Makes more sense. Glad you took the time to clarify that.
  
  I’m not convinced it HAS to start with Robbie. I think that, yes, all teams have to be judicious with handing out long-term contracts. I also do feel like we’re headed to extremes around here with the concept of long-term contracts.
  
  I’ve been pretty much on the side of paying him the big money the entire time. I guess there’s a limit, but I’d probably go higher than most folks on here.
The Real Greg

So does anyone get this move by the Indians?
- Bob Buttons
  
  Somewhere, Ted Nelson is putting that gun next to Antonetti’s head back in his pocket.
  - The Real Greg
    
    So the Indians now have Brantley, Stubbs, Swisher, and Bourn in their outfield. Stubbs appears to be the odd man out. I don’t know if the Yankees can act quick enough to get him
    - Bob Buttons
      
      I don’t see why people want Stubbs in the first place. Melky Mesa can probably do better than what he can offer. Stubbs can hit maybe 15 homers a year, strikes out 150 times a year, steal 30 bases, topped off by OPS+ of 86. Don’t see why Mesa can’t top that.
      - Need Pitching & Hitting (but mostly hitting)
        
        They don’t want Stubbs as an everyday player. They want him vs. LHP. 111 wRC+ vs. LHP last year, 120 wRC+ career vs. LHP (276/344/476).
        
        FWIW, Mesa last 2 years vs. LHP – 216/285/357.
        For the RH 4th of role, it would seem Stubbs would be the better fit.
    - Robinson Tilapia
      
      How quickly can we round up Jeff Marquez and Wilson Betimit? I have an idea.
    - RetroRob
      
      Stubbs is kind of horrible. He is not a replacement for any of the Yankees starting three, including Ichiro. He’ll also make Granderson look like a contact hitter, but without the power.
      
      He can run, though, but that’s not enough.
      - Now Batting
        
        He’s not a replacement, but he’d make a great fourth outfielder. Solid against lefties and I’d guess he plays all three outfield positions decently if he’s fast and a center fielder.
  - Get Phelps Up
    
    What?
    - Bob Buttons
      
      Oh, it just happens that they sign him after I was arguing with him and he kept insisting that the Indians have a chance to contend this year, while I kept insisting that they got no chance.
      - MannyGeee
        
        I still don’t think they have the rotation to take the Division, and there aren’t enough wild card spots to go around, Bourn or no Bourn…
        
        Bob Buttons
        
        Me neither but it certainly makes the gap closer than before and for all we know they go out and sign Lohse.
      - Ted Nelson
        
        No, that never happened.
        
        I explained their logic. I never said whether or not I agreed with it.
  - Ted Nelson
    
    Never said that I agree or disagree with their moves. I said that it’s not too hard to see their logic. They’re trying to contend both in 2013 and for the next 5 years or so.
Preston

Is it just me or are the Indians starting to look pretty solid?
Bourne CF
Cabrera SS
Swisher RF
Santana C/1B
Reynolds 1B/DH
Giambi DH/Marson C
Brantley LF
Kipnis 2B
Chisenhall 3B

They need to have Ubaldo and Masterson bounce back and Bauer to produce as a rookie. Mcallister is a nice back end option. Then they have to throw the collective shit that is Myers, Dice-K, Kazmir and Tomlin against the wall and hope something sticks. It’d be fun if they gave the Tigers a run for their money in the Central.
- Mike HC
  
  Definitely. They put together a nice, competent lineup. Like you say though, pitching will be their problem.
- jesse
  
  I think they have a better chance to contend for the AL Central title (albeit pretty slim) than the Royals, at least
- Bob Buttons
  
  I’ll take the top 5, the bottom 4 can end up a mess. Kipnis and Chisenhall might end up okay but I do not believe that Giambi can produce on a daily basis or that Marson can hit better than Cervelli could. Brantley is more of a .270 hitter.
  
  Ubaldo probably will not bounce back, ever. Masterson might. Bauer might be a distraction in the club house, seeing how quick the DBacks dumped him. McAllister and whatever can probably produce. I can see Dice-K/Tomlin make some starts, Myers go to BP again (but that BP still has its faults).
  
  Probably won’t make playoffs but might give them a scare or two into mid-August.
  
  I still hate them for 2007, but oh well, I hate the Tigers more for 06 Tar and Dancing Valverde.
  - Mike HC
    
    Tigers have been knocking the Yanks out of the playoffs too often recently. Verlander is banging Kate Upton. Time for another team to get some glory. Plus I am a fan of Swisher and Carlos Santana.
    - Mike HC
      
      And also a fan of Francona.
      - Preston
        
        I just hope the Indians win more games than the Sox, and sweep them every time they play them. And that Boston radio talks 24/7 about how stupid it was to fire him.
  - Preston
    
    The Dbacks and their stupid clubhouse chemistry. I’ve seen and read a lot about Trevor Bauer. He’s a little whacky, but not a distraction. Let him do his own thing, that’s what made him a top college pitcher, it’s what made him a top pick, and a top prospect. Why would you change his routine when he gets to the big leagues. Francona is a damn good manager and will let him do his own thing and I’ll bet he’s pretty good for them this year. I know Giambi wasn’t particularly good last year, but it’s only a MiLB deal. I’d bet Jim Thome is a lot more excited about a possible Cleveland reunion tomorrow than he was this morning. I don’t know anything about pitching mechanics so I want comment on why Ubaldo went so bad so fast, but I don’t see why he can’t at least be more like the 2011 version than the 2012.
    - Bob Buttons
      
      Was more of saying what could go bad instead of what will go bad, but Ubaldo will screw up again for sure.
      Ubaldo’s velocity has been dropping before he was traded to the Indians, and the downward trend continued during the year. His control has been getting worse too. So there you have it.
- Gonzo
  
  I’m not sold at all on their rotation but good for the Indians and Tito.
- RetroRob
  
  They were knocked for signing Swisher, but I didn’t buy it. Those who write articles and do analysis have no idea what the overall plan is, or how the financials of the team are shaping up. No single move can be judged until all the pieces are in place.
  
  Outside of the Tigers, they are in a weak division, with the AL East in flux. A couple things break their way and they can be the race for one of the wild cards. I wouldn’t bet on it, but they’re giving it a shot.
- forensic
  
  Eh, I’m not sold on a lot of that lineup but they may hang in there for a little bit in that weak division.
Herby

It’s a video like this on the eve of camp opening, a year after not having Mo, that we were treated to a video of the highlights of Craig “who the fuck cares” Kimbrel yesterday. It should’ve been one of Mo.
Now Batting

He pitched 8 innings. Would be a pretty short highlight film.
Pat D

Life seems boring. Can someone do something stupid please?

No, whatever happened at the Grammys doesn’t count.
- Dalek Jeter (formerly: Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM))
  
  *Something stupidly and bannably offensive*
  - Pat D
    
    My god, you are such an idiot! May all kinds of horrible things happen to you for having that opinion!! A pox upon your soul!!! Running out of ideas!!!! Exclamation points!!!!!
    
    !!!!!!!!!!!
    - Havok9120
      
      Needs more ellipses.
      - Pat D
        
        Exclamation points are my thing, thank you very much!!!!