Open Thread: 2/15 Camp Notes

February 15, 2013 by Mike Axisa 71 Comments

Here’s the news from a very light workout day in Tampa…

Both Michael Pineda (shoulder) and Cesar Cabral (elbow) threw 25-pitch side sessions this morning, all fastballs. Both guys said they felt great afterwards. Vidal Nuno threw live batting practice and that’s pretty much it. [Chad Jennings]
Kevin Youkilis clarified some comments he made on Thursday. It’s a non-story, but he probably should have known better than saying “I’ll always be a Red Sock” on his first day of camp as a Yankee. [Bryan Hoch]

Here is your open thread for the night. The Devils are playing and apparently there’s some kind of NBA All-Star event going on. Not the actual game or the skills competition, but something else. Either way, talk about whatever you want here. Go nuts.

Govin

Read an encouraging article about Hughes. Seems that Rothschild has tweaked his mechanics(Hughes said he got into some bad habits after he hurt his hamstring) so that Hughes can follow up on his pitches. Giving him better control. The article said he was also working on his changeup. Hopefully Hughes can have a consistent year.
- jjyank
  
  Cool, good to hear. Can I get a link? I’d like to read it as well.
  - Govin
    
    Sorry about the delay just finished Watching a movie.
    Hughes hopes for consistency
    
    Enjoy
- http://www.yankeeanalysts.com Mike Eder
  
  I’m extremely high on Hughes this year.
  
  He lowered his arm angle to add horizontal depth to his four-seam, which helped him give up less hard hit flyballs (homeruns), and a 11-5 curveball. Though it did reduce his strikeouts on the pitch, the new changeup/slider combination was a much safer strikeout recipe that he implemented in the last month. I think we would have been much more impressed with his progress if it weren’t for his last month. Hughes threw 100 more innings in 2012 than 2011, and by September, his velocity was clearly regressing.
  
  Assuming he comes out 2013 throwing with normal velocity, I think he’s more than capable of replicating the 3.5 ERA that he put up in 21 starts between May and August. I’ve done a lot of PITCHf/x work on Hughes, and I’m so confident about Hughes that I think the team really needs to offer him an extension.
  - forensic
    
    To each their own, but I love how things come out about Hughes every ST and people still cling to whatever they can to convince themselves that all this time spent on him team-wise and fan-wise weren’t kind of wasted (not individually pointing out you, but many people do this).
    
    Just to sum up briefly:
    
    2012: basically 3 good months
    2011: basically 1 good month
    2010: basically 2 good months
    
    And further away and much less predictive, but to be thorough:
    
    2009: basically 0 good months (as a starter obviously)
    2008: basically 1/2 good month
    2007: basically 1 good month
    
    I don’t have the time right now to go start by start or split the months up, and I know this is a bit simplistic, but it’s basically the story of his career: Homeruns, inconsistency (caused partly by the homeruns), and injuries.
    
    Personally, I think it would be a huge mistake to offer him an extension.
    - Manny’s Banwagon
      
      Such is the story with many young pitchers before they break through.
      - forensic
        
        Sure, and I didn’t say he can’t or will never improve. Just that I don’t buy these stories that come out every season and then amount to either no improvement or mostly minimal improvement.
        
        This is his 7th season in the majors and his age-27 season. Of course improvement can come at anytime, but by this point I’m done expecting, and barely even hoping, for it from him.
        
        He’s got a 4.6’s ERA in over 100 starts still (yes, 100 is just a convenient round number, but it’s a significant amount of time that he’s had to show who he is). For a typical young-ish picher, 100 starts could still only be about 3 seasons, but that also highlights some of the other issues with him (and arguably how the org handled him) that it’s taken him twice as long to get there. He’s always an injury risk. Playing in YS3 is a massive detriment to him, to the tune of about .50 ERA over his career.
        
        I’m just not holding my breath on him further improving (given some of the things he can’t even control) and certainly don’t want to pay him a sort of big extension. I’m not going to lose any sleep over someone else wanting to pay him $12-15 million per year for 4 or whatever years hoping he finds somthing. Even if there is improvement in those years, it may even just be attributable to leaving YS3, which is not something that can happen in Pinstripes.
        
        Manny’s Banwagon
        
        I wouldn’t give him a big money extension either unless he proves he’s turned the corner this year.
        
        Bo Knows
        
        Hughes’ path has been far from normal though, injuries, movement between pen and rotation he’s been through a wringer some by bad luck,some by the yankees not knowing what the hell they were doing, and some by his own doing.
        
        The thing is he is showing tangible very good improvement. Last year is a good example, he started actually relying on his Changeup, found his old slider, and tweaked his mechanics to give him a reliable curveball. His last 22 starts of the 2012 season, he had 3.70 era with 3.59 k/bb ratio. It might have taken longer than many people expected, but this is stuff that is actually common when developing homegrown pitchers. It can take years for them to put it together, if they ever do, Phil seems to have used his past mistakes as learning experiences.
        
        Magilla Gorilla Mama Called me Roy tho
        
        Forensic, you make a great case.
        
        I am undecided about offering an extension to Hughes. What I am confident of is that we will never see the near great pitcher of his season in relief or his first year breaking in as a starter.
    - http://www.yankeeanalysts.com Mike Eder
      
      Not sure if you’re implying that my fandom is getting in the way, but that has nothing to do with it.
      
      Hughes is an absolute tinker, and he’ll always be working on something new in Spring Training. He did the right tinkering last year.
      
      My argument has no bearing on the amount of years he spent with the Yankees, or anything subjective. The fact is that he has retooled his pitch repertoire, and it worked last year. The numbers show that he still has an incredible amount of spin on his pitches, and it’s translating into a lot of movement on his four-seam, slider, and change up.
      
      Any young pitcher with that type of movement, velocity, and command will be favored, but when the outcomes back up his stuff, there’s little doubt that’s he figured things out.
      
      But as I mention, health and velocity is a different story. When he doubled his innings in 2011, everything fell apart. He doubled them again in 2012, and he needs to overcome that.
      - forensic
        
        I’m not saying you necessarily did that, but it does factor in for many people when it comes to him.
        
        Even last year when according to you he did the right tinkering, he still had 3 pretty bad months.
        
        I hope you’re right, because they’ll likely need him to be good this year to get where they want to go, but I’m not expecting much more than a very frustrating couple of months along with maybe 1-2 good months, and maybe 1 or so months of tantalizing performance which again gets everyone to say he’s figured it all out and he again has to be resigned next offseason.
  - Govin
    
    I’ve been paying close attention to him for the last two years. He has really impressed me with his willingness to try new things. He really has a chance to put it all together this year.
    - vicki
      
      expect big things from a healthy hughesthis year. provided he stays away from that cutter, as he did after may last season.
Tom from England

This whole Youkilis thing is so media-overblown, it’s ridiculous. If one reads the whole quote, he said nothing that would indicate he would ‘always be a red sock’. Bloody media has nothing else better to do…
- http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa
  
  His quote was, literally, “I’ll always be a Red Sock.”
- Bob Buttons
  
  Well, what do you suppose the media’s suppose to do?
- Sweet Dick Willie
  
  Bloody media has nothing else better to do…
  
  Yeah, like skewering someone for taking a drink of water.
  - Pat D
    
    Oh, come on. You know that in politics perception is everything. No one had ever done something like that before, so naturally it’s gonna be hit upon as a sign that he doesn’t have good speaking presence.
    - Havok9120
      
      And that you really don’t like him has nothing to do with that being your opinion?
      
      I mean, the standard set up of most town hall meetings includes either a glass/pitcher or bottle of water. This includes behind the podiums at a good many televised addresses, debates, and whathaveyou. I’ll grant you that it’s usually there for emergencies.
      
      Did it surprise me that a big deal was made of it? Of course not. Is it in any way groundbreaking? No.
      - Pat D
        
        Nothing I said has anything to do with my personal opinion of him. What I said is how some of the media will make a big deal out of it and then skew it to their own liking.
        
        Fox News always criticizes the president for his reliance on the prompter, so naturally the left-leaning media will jump on this.
        
        And, come on, you have to admit it was pretty funny.
        
        Havok9120
        
        Oh, definitely. It’s not even that I’m criticizing anyone for harping on it (since no one here is). I’m simply taking issue with the “No one had ever done something like that before,” part of what you said.
        
        Pat D
        
        I never remember seeing someone do that in the middle of a State of the Union rebuttal. I was under the impression it was a short enough speech that one could get through it without needing a quick drink.
        
        Havok9120
        
        It is and you can, unless something goes wrong. Hence why I put the whole “normally there in case of emergencies” thing in there.
        
        Robinson Tilapia
        
        Somewhere out there, Howard Dean still weeps…..and he’s GOING TO CALIFORNIA!! RAAAARGH!
        
        Havok9120
        
        I can do a great impression of that speech.
        
        I’ve never been a Dean fan, but the result of that speech remains one of the greatest political travesties of this century.
        
        I am not the droids you’re looking for…
        
        Worse still is the rarely shown reverse angle with crowd noise which puts his outburst into an entirely different (which is to say better and understanable) light IMO. It was a large crowd going nuts. The direct shot of him cut off most of the crowd itself, and the audio was a direct feed from his mic so it literally looked like he was going nuts all by himself.
        
        Too lazy to look for it now but I saw an awesome piece wherein they synced the two shots and let you play them side by side with the audio tracks mixed to approximate what it was like there that day. Frankly it seemed entirely normal.
        
        Sadder still is the fact that today, only a fews years on, that would rank somewhere near “nowhere” on the list of ‘crazy’ things that derailed politicians’ campaigns.
        
        But hey at least Herman Cain has a day job again.
    - Buzz
      
      Bleeding Liberal! Keep voting that way if you want to stay unemployed. Some people just don’t get it. Enjoy your days off Chump!
      - Havok9120
        
        Sigh.
      - Pat D
        
        Who are you and what have you done with my horse?
      - Pat D
        
        Who are you and what have you done with my horse?
- Govin
  
  All he needs to do is hit well against the Redsox, and Yankee fans will never remember anything he said, in spring training. Now if he hits poorly agianst the Redsox. Yankee fans will make references to what he said all year long.
- RetroRob
  
  Poor choice of words on day one, but yeah, it was pretty much a media fabrication. I understand why many Yankee fans will dislike Youkilis. Yet all Yankee fans should hate Wally Natthews.
jjyank

Yeah, Youk probably should have known better than to say that right after he arrives in camp as a Yankee, but reading his quotes from today, I get it. He said the right things to explain himself today, so he gets a pass. Of course he considers himself a Red Sock, that’s where he won two rings and spend the large majority of his career. As long as he also considers himself a Yankee and has no problem crushing the Sox in actual games, he’s cool with me.
Should I Fister or Pettitte?

Youkilis should have known better; however, I’m not going to grill him over his statement. And really, he is right. He is a Red Sock. Just like Boggs is. But he should have known better.
- trr
  
  and he probably does no better, but it’s tough to have a microphone in your face every day and have to say the “right” thing
  - I am not the droids you’re looking for…
    
    Actually it’s not if you’re even somewhat intelligent. The fact that so many athletes get it so wrong is evidence – to me – of just how dumb/unsavvy so many of them are.
Eddard: Back and better than never

There’s nothing wrong with what Youk said. When Brett Favre was traded away from Green Bay he said he’ll always be a Packer. Players are usually associated with the organization they spent the most time with so that’s what Youk meant. When he’s done playing he’ll be considered a Red Sock, Favre a Packer, Jordan a Bull. Once again, the media has taken the quote and blown it out of proportion.
- Bob Buttons
  
  Figures that the day a giant meteor hits the Earth is the day Eddard makes some good sense.
  - Improbable Island’s Dirty Midget Whores (formerly RRR)
    
    This is a great comment.
- Robinson Tilapia
  
  I…..agree?
  - I am not the droids you’re looking for…
    
    Happened to me on a thread a day or two ago. Felt like I needed a shower afterwards but there it was.
- DC
  
  This has to be the Pod Eddard.
- Herby
  
  It’s about how I read it as well. The media will put their spin on it, people will read it how they want. When he hits his first grand slam in the rain it’ll be all forgotten…ooops sorry, damn flashback.
Need Pitching & Hitting (but mostly hitting)

MLBTR had Cervelli on its out of options list.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/02/out-of-options-2013.html

I know it was reported that Cashman said he does have options.
Looking back through the Yankee transaction history, it appears Cervelli was added to the 40-man roster prior to the 2008 season, and options were used in 2008, 2009, and 2012.
I would assume Cashman knows who has options or not, but I don’t see any reason why Cervelli would have a 4th option, and it appears he has definitely used 3 options.

Odd.
- Havok9120
  
  Hmm. So either an error by Cashman or one of the lovely intricacies of the options rules has flummoxed everyone.
- forensic
  
  My guess would be that (even though it’s the 6th year he’d appear in the majors) he is credited with less than 5 years of service based on either 2008 or 2012 (or both) and thus is eligible for a 4th option.
  - Need Pitching & Hitting (but mostly hitting)
    
    I believe the 5 years includes minor and major league service.
    
    “Contracts of Major League players who, prior to commencement
    of the current season, have been credited with less than five seasons in the Major and Minor Leagues (excluding service on the Military, Disqualified, Restricted, Voluntarily Retired and Ineligible Lists) shall be eligible for a fourth optional assignment, without waivers, during that season. For purposes of this Rule 11(c), 90 days or more on the Active List during a championship season shall constitute a “season of service.””
    
    He’s been in the minors since 2005. It would seem at the very least, 2007 and 2009-2012 would all count as years of service.
    Maybe I’m missing something.
    - forensic
      
      But you said it appeared he was added to the 40-man before 2008, not 2007, so 2007 wouldn’t count, right? 2008 he was injured for awhile, twice, so probably didn’t reach the 90 days. That leaves 2009-2012.
      - Need Pitching & Hitting (but mostly hitting)
        
        The rule doesn’t say the 5 seasons have to come on the 40-man roster, just that there has to be 5 pro seasons. Otherwise, a lot more players would be eligible for a 4th option (Bettances for 2014, for example) which doesn’t seem to be the case.
        
        forensic
        
        Oh yeah. I think I might have it now.
        
        According to Law: When an option isn’t an option
        
        If a player is sent out on one or more optional assignments during the course of a season, but the total number of days spent on those assignments is fewer than twenty, then he’s not charged with an option. So there.
        
        This appears to cover 2011 since it appears he only spent about 6 days down on his two trips according to BR.
        
        I kept skipping over that part to scan the main section…
        
        Need Pitching & Hitting (but mostly hitting)
        
        Right. I didn’t count 2011 as an option year. He was optioned in 2008, 2009, and 2012.
        
        forensic
        
        Yeah, I was blurring option and service years and then apparently combining the two to come to some sort of conclusion. :-)
        
        forensic
        
        My only guess at this point would seem to be that if 2008 doesn’t count as a year of service time, maybe it also doesn’t count as an option used.
        
        I’m grasping at straws here, and it does pass the 20 days in the minors rule, but I don’t know what else it might be.
        
        Of course, we’re assuming Cashman is right, which you would hope he is in this case.
        
        forensic
        
        Geez, nevermind, that doesn’t seem to work out either. Doing two things at once seems to have spun me around in a circle on this…
- RetroRob
  
  I’m quite sure Cashnan knows this better than any blog.
- RetroRob
  
  I’m quite sure Cashman knows this better than any blog.
Havok9120

Steam has officially added support for Linux. It left Beta today.

This is harmless to excellent news for everyone but Microsoft.
- Coramere
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZEdDMQZaCU
Robinson Tilapia

On Youkilis: I found it honesty refreshing. I don’t know quite else you’d expect him to say.

I’d rather hear a player feel a connection to their former team than have Johnny Damon claim every team he signs with was his dream team all along.
- forensic
  
  One month from now:
  
  “I’ve always wanted to play for the St. Paul Saints!”
- vicki
  
  damon’s such a joiner.
  - Bob Buttons
    
    If you can beat them .. oh wait
Govin

Bavarian Yankee posted this on the chat thread I knew it would never be seen and I thought some people might want to take him up on the bet.

I bet all my money and then some that Trout will have a better year than Harper. Well, let’s make a real bet out of it: if both Trout and Harper get at least 550 PAs then I bet that Trout will have an fWAR that’ll be at least 1 full win higher than Harper’s. If I’m wrong I will use the name “Bavarian Red Sock” during all of 2014. If I’m right I’ll praise the sun. Umbasa.
If you wanna bet against me you’re welcome to post here
- Bob Buttons
  
  Eh I’m up for it, maybe, though making someone Bavarian Red Sock doesn’t really make it a gain for anyone.
- Rivera Venue Blues
  
  Haven’t you heard the news? Trout’s a fatty now.
Cesar “Stairs” Cabral

*stretches*
- Havok9120
  
  I’m surprised you didn’t appear in the Logan thread. I see your handiwork there.
https://twitter.com/MattMontero1 matt montero

Hey if anyone has anyone extra money laying around I would highly recommend donating to THON. It’s THON weekend at Penn State and anyone who wants to read up on it can go here (http://www.thon.org). All of the money (well 97% of it) goes to the Four Diamonds Organization which raises money for pediatric cancer (research, support for families, and medical bills). It’s a great organization.

Sorry about posting an advertisement for money but it’s a great organization and just want them to get as much money as they can (last year we raised over 10 million dollars).

Also, a stream of THON can be found here (it’s a great watch and 46 hours straight), http://stateinthereal.com/penn-state-thon-2013-live-webcast-and-twitter-feed/. I’d be more than happy to answer any other questions.
Deep Thoughts

That Youkilis comment was such a PR disaster! Times like this you really miss Alex–uh, never mind.
deadrody

Really ? People would actually hold it against Youklis for saying he’s a “Red Sock for life” ?! Good lord.