Jul
01

Possible Trade Partner: Philadelphia Phillies

By
(Brian Garfinkel/Getty)

(Brian Garfinkel/Getty)

The Yankees are in a very dangerous place right now. Their glut of injured players are due to start returning in 2-3 weeks, but the current roster simply isn’t good and the team is fading fast. They’ve lost five straight and 21 of 33, falling to 6.5 games back of the Red Sox for first place on the AL East. They’re four back of a wildcard spot. It’s a deficit they can still erase with 81 games to play.

The re-injuries to Mark Teixeira and Kevin Youkilis (and Curtis Granderson to a lesser extent) should keep the Yankees from relying on the injured players too much. Even when guys start coming off the DL, there’s no guarantee they’ll help the offense. Heck, there’s no guarantee the team will even be close enough to the race for the lineup additions to matter. The season is half over and the Yankees need to start improving the offense — the time for patience has come and gone. They need help and they need it right now.

Over the last few days, we’ve heard them connected to both infielder Michael Young and catcher Carlos Ruiz. Those two aren’t the only Phillies who fit with New York though. In fact, the Fightin’s are a great trade match for the Yankees, and I’m not talking about Brian Cashman‘s white whale (Cliff Lee) either. Here are a few more fits.

IF Chase Utley
Once one of the very best players in all the land, age and injuries have reduced Utley to a merely above-average player. He’s hitting .284/.348/.517 (138 wRC+) on the year, and that is broken down into a 144 wRC+ against righties and a 123 wRC+ against lefties. The rebound against southpaws is nice to see after a few years of below-average production. Utley is a left-handed power hitter who draws walks (8.5%) and doesn’t strike out much (14.7%), and it’s worth noting that he’s also one of the very best base-runners in the game. I’m not necessarily talking about bulk stolen base totals, but being a high-percentage base-stealer and going first-to-third on singles, stuff like that.

Utley is owed approximately $7.5M through the end of the year and is due to become a free agent after the season, so he isn’t exactly easy on the wallet. He is cheap relative to his production, however. The Yankees are being reimbursed for a big portion of Mark Teixeira’s salary by … someone. Either the World Baseball Classic or insurance, depending on who you believe. At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter who pays them back. It’s a big amount of saved salary that will more than cover the last few months of Utley’s contract. The money really isn’t the problem.

The Yankees have no need for a second baseman and Utley tried and failed to transition to third before the season, but first base is a viable alternative. He played a handful of games at the position earlier in his career, so it wouldn’t be completely foreign to him. Lyle Overbay turned into a pumpkin sometime in mid-May and Utley would be a fantastic replacement. Playing first would require an adjustment though, an adjustment and his willingness. Utley has ten-and-five rights and can veto any trade, so he’d have to be okay with leaving from the only team he’s ever known for the Yankees at a time when more legitimate contenders like the Orioles, Athletics, and hometown Dodgers figure to show some interest as well.

For what it’s worth, GM Ruben Amaro Jr. told Ryan Lawrence he would be open to moving Utley if the circumstances dictate a trade. “Even though he might be the most popular player, if there are things we have to do with some of these popular players that are going to make our club better, then we have to keep our minds open,” he said.

Frandsen. (Doug Pensinger/Getty)

Frandsen. (Doug Pensinger/Getty)

IF Kevin Frandsen
With all due respect to certified baseball player Jayson Nix, the 31-year-old Frandsen is a way better utility infielder. He’s a career .269/.328/.372 (88 wRC+) hitter in the big leagues but has found a home in Philadelphia, hitting .320/.382/.448 (129 wRC+) since joining the Phillies last year. The right-handed hitter does most of his damage against lefties (169 wRC+), which fits well with New York’s needs. Frandsen won’t steal bases or draw walks (5.5%), but he won’t strike out either (9.0%). Even if he has been playing over his head these last two years, he’d still be an upgrade over Nix if he reverts back to his career averages.

Frandsen plays first, second, and third bases regularly, but he hasn’t seen time at shortstop since 2009 and has only played there sparingly as a big leaguer. He has played short in the minors over the years — 25 games there as recently as 2011 — so it’s not something that is completely off the table. In fact, he’s played short about as often as Nix did prior to coming to the Yankees. Frandsen is a flat-out better player than Nix and would be an upgrade to the bench even if all the healthy guys return perfectly fine. As an added bonus, he is under team control as an arbitration-eligible player through 2015.

OF/1B John Mayberry Jr.
Mayberry, 29, became a platoon darling after cracking Philadelphia’s roster full-time three years ago. He’s a righty bat who’s hit .278/.302/.490 (116 wRC+) against lefties this year with a 130 wRC+ against them the last three years, basically since breaking into the league for good. His numbers against right-handers — 102 wRC+ this year and 91 wRC+ since 2011 — aren’t great, but they aren’t disastrous. Mayberry will draw some walks (7.7%) and he will strike out a bit (21.6%), which isn’t surprising.

Mayberry. (Brian Garfinkel/Getty)

Mayberry. (Brian Garfinkel/Getty)

Despite his size — he’s listed at 6-foot-6 and 225 lbs. on the team’s official site — Mayberry is a really good athlete who can legitimately play center field as well as the corners. He’s not a great defender in the center, but he can do it. Mayberry has also spent a bunch of time at first base, making him an ideal platoon candidate. He could partner with Overbay (or Utley!) or the outfielders on any given day depending on who else is in the lineup. Mayberry will be arbitration-eligible for the first time next year and remains under team control through 2016.

* * *

It’s hard not to dream about a blockbuster trade that sends Young, Ruiz, Utley, Frandsen, and Mayberry to the Yankees. That would shore up the corner infield spots, the catcher position, and bench in one fell swoop. Trades that big are complicated though, plus the Phillies have yet to decide to sell. They seem very tentative at the moment, but remember, they took the plunge and traded away Shane Victorino and Hunter Pence at the deadline last year. They made be tentative, but they have shown they will do it.

As for the asking prices … who really knows. They traded Victorino and Pence for prospects and okay young-ish big leaguers, but that doesn’t mean the same will be true this year. One thing I do know is that they won’t want rental players like Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain. That defeats the purpose of selling. Adam Warren? Ivan Nova? Zoilo Almonte? The Phillies always target toolsy up-the-middle athletes in the draft, so would Mason Williams or Angelo Gumbs pique their interest? We have no way of knowing. All we do know is that the Yankees have a ton of position player needs and Philadelphia has several players who would fill those holes.

Categories : Trade Deadline
  • Kosmo

    Mike, I have Utley hitting .284 ?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Yeah I had the 4 and the 8 switched. My bad.

  • JohnnyC

    It’ll probably come down to including Nunez and Cashman will balk. End of trade.

    • trr

      Nunez should be expendable. Period.
      Salary for this sgould not stand in the way, but the farm system should not be stripped for any of the A/M players…

      • JohnnyC

        It was a joke. Referencing Cashman’s “white whale” pursuit of Cliff Lee way back when.

        • trr

          Sorry Johnny, I am so concerned with improving the team my snark detectors have been disabled!

      • Cool Lester Smooth

        Yeah, none of these guys are worth any of the names on R-Tils’ list, but anyone else should be fair game, as far as I’m concerned.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          Which list, the one headlined by Tyler Austin, or the one headlines by Rookie Davis?

          The answer, of course, is clearly “neither.”

  • mitch

    So basically they should combine two bad offensive teams to create one good offensive team. I approve.

    • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

      as long as we’re the one good one, sure…

    • trr

      Like the Steagles in WWII NFL days…the Yanklies? the Philkees?

  • mkcal

    This is nuts. Yankees need to sell and start focusing on 2015 and beyond. It’s OK to not go to the ALCS or better every year and the plan should be to load up on as many minor leaguers as possible and try to develop some real major league talent.

    Pineda won’t be any real help until 2015 at the earliest. The best prospects are a couple years away. By then we’ll at least be able to see daylight with all the awful contracts.

    Also, I’d rather watch Robbie have 2-3 awesome years with another team then end up in another Tex-Arod-Sabathia situation. By the time this team is ready to be really good again, he’ll be past his prime.

    • Cool Lester Smooth

      “Pineda won’t be any real help until 2015 at the earliest.”

      That’s almost as insightful as Billy Madison’s speech on the Industrial Revolution.

      • Pat D

        What you’ve said…was pretty funny.

      • mkcal

        given the way pitchers are babied these days there’s no way they let him throw more than 130-150 innings next year and it will likely take him some time to develop and become a dependable above average starter, if he even ever does, but maybe by 2015 he can be an 18-8 guy.

      • fabricio

        you’ve been awarded no points and may god have mercy on your soul

      • Kosmo

        I think he has a point. Pineda has to show he can stay healthy. Zero indication Pineda will ever be as good as he once was. Going forward Yanks want 200 innings per out of Pineda. If Pineda is healthy going into next season NY will coddle him with pitch counts and inning limits. If he survives it won´t be until 2015 that restrictions need not apply.

        • jjyank

          That doesn’t mean he can’t help. Just ask the 2012 Washington Nationals is Strasberg helped them make the postseason despite an innings limit.

          Besides, do he even know how much coddling he’ll get? He pitched 171 innings in 2011.

          • jjyank

            *if* Strasberg helped

          • Kosmo

            171 innings took it´s toll.

            • jjyank

              We still have no indication that he’s going to be on a strict innings limit in 2014. This is all conjecture. And you didn’t respond to the actual point I made.

              • Kosmo

                what point ? comparing him to Strasburg ? Pineda can help if he´s good to go and the FO and Girardi let him start. Pineda needs to show it over the next month or so.

                • jjyank

                  I didn’t compare him to Stras. I compared the situation.

                  I’m responding to this statement in the original comment: “Pineda won’t be any real help until 2015 at the earliest.”

                  That’s an asinine thing to say, because he can help before 2015 regardless of any hypothetical innings limites. Whether or not he does is another argument, but ruling out the possibility is stupid.

                  • Cool Lester Smooth

                    You could have just put a period after “That’s an asinine thing to say.”

                  • JobaWockeeZ

                    It’s just as asinine to expect that he will be a big contributor which is what you have to say on here to not get stoned.

                    The real answer is you don’t know what will happen so treating your opinion as fact over others is laughable.

                    • jjyank

                      What? Don’t put words on my key board. My entire point is to not speak in absolutes either way. I took issue with the guy saying that Pineda won’t help until 2015 at the earliest. Never did I say he will be a “big contributor” with any certainty at all.

                      Reading comprehension.

                    • Jim Is Bored

                      JobaWockeez in the HOUSE everybody!

                      Too bad everyone wishes he would leave…

                      I find it hysterical that you said “The real answer is you don’t know what will happen so treating your opinion as fact over others is laughable.” which is in COMPLETE AGREEMENT WITH JJYANK.

                      Good God.

                    • Robinson Tilapia

                      “It’s just as asinine to expect that he will be a big contributor which is what you have to say on here to not get stoned.”

                      All these years on here and I still can’t figure out which one of the two old Muppets in the balcony you are.

                    • Pat D
                    • Robinson Tilapia

                      The one who spent every season of that show complaining the most but contributing the least.

        • Cool Lester Smooth

          Have you heard of Roger Clemens, Anibal Sanchez or Jose Valverde?

          Those are the only pitchers we know of who have had a comparable injury to Pineda at a comparable age. All three came back as good as ever. So, yeah, we have absolutely no indication that Pineda won’t make a full recovery.

          • Kosmo

            SSS

            • Cool Lester Smooth

              On the other hand, there is literally NO sample of a young pitcher who has failed to come back from the surgery. I’ll take the SSS over the non-existent one, thanks.

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                Really? You mean to tell me those handful of successful MLBers are the only players in the history of baseball to have to same surgery as Pineda?

                I think it’s more likely that there are tons of players who had the surgery and flamed out, but we can’t name them.

                • Cool Lester Smooth

                  Those were the only ones Baseball Prospectus could find: http://www.baseballprospectus......leid=16634

                  They were incorrect about Clemens not having the surgery, since they didn’t realize that the “glenoidal labrum” just means that it was the labrum in his shoulder, not his hip.

                  Wade Miller also had it, but he was 29 and had pitched 350 more innings in the majors than Pineda has in his entire career, so I don’t think it’s a relevant comparison.

                  • Robinson Tilapia

                    That list is pretty exhaustive, but I think Mike is looking to even widen the net a bit. I agree with him on this, even though I will continue to be hopeful and confident as to Pineda.

              • Manny’s BanWagon

                You’re pretty delusional IMO.

                • Cool Lester Smooth

                  Name a pitcher other than Wade Miller who hasn’t made a full recovery from Pineda’s injury.

                  I’ll eat my hat if you do, but until then you should feel free to either stop being a dick or shut the hell up.

    • jjyank

      “Pineda won’t be any real help until 2015 at the earliest.”

      Says who? He could be ready to help as soon as a few weeks, so I have no idea why you’re punting the rest of 2013 and the entire 2014 season.

      This is what I want to know from the pro-total rebuild crowd. What are the chances that the Yankees are successful with a complete rebuilt on the first try? If you believe with 100% certainty that the Yankees can establish a new powerhouse in 2-3 years, I can get the logic. The problem is, though, that there is a very good chance that this won’t be the outcome. Rebuilding isn’t easy. Just ask the Royals, Cubs, Astros, Marlins, etc. Rolling that dice could result in the Yankees being terrible for a decade. That’s not a chance I’m willing to take.

      I feel like I’m the only one that actually likes the general direction of the team. No, I don’t like the self-imposed budget, but aside from that, I think it makes sense. It seems like they’re trying to use band-aids to field, at the very least, semi-competent teams to buy time for prospects. By most accounts, the Yankees had an above average farm system going into the season (even if some of those accounts had it only barely so) and they just added three legit first round talents to that (assuming Judge signs), and one of which should be a pretty fast mover.

      I think the Yankees should do what they are doing. Do the best you can for the MLB team while mortgaging the farm system as little as possible. Throwing away all the talent on the MLB team and crossing your fingers for good prospect development is just too risky for my taste.

      • pat

        I don’t like the self-imposed budget, but aside from that, I think it makes sense. It seems like they’re trying to use band-aids to field, at the very least, semi-competent teams to buy time for prospects.

        DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER.

        I thought that was the accepted M/O going into the season. At least that’s what I was picturing. Peeps can bash Cashman all they want, but he’s really not dumb enough to think that Ichiro! or Wells is the answer to our corner OF woes. Ideally, one of our dare I say, “Big Three ” OF prospects would have a stellar year in AA/ AAA and at least be in the conversation to break next ST with the MLB club with one of the two remaining playing well enough to force the issue by mid season or so. Unfortunately all three have stumbled and we look like we’re in dire straits. Luckily baseball is a long ass season and a strong second half could still put them on schedule.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          It was the accepted M/O……until the babies, as predicted, couldn’t handle uncertainty and adversity. Here we now are.

      • Cool Lester Smooth

        Yeah, the results have been a little haphazard, but the process has been sound given the self-imposed restrictions that Cash has had to deal with.

      • ChrisS

        Just ask the Royals, Cubs, Astros, Marlins, etc. Rolling that dice could result in the Yankees being terrible for a decade. That’s not a chance I’m willing to take.

        That’s a terrrrible comparsion. 75% of the teams you named have super low payrolls and/or are owned by miserly scumbags (Loria in particular) and have a quarter of the Yankees resources. Plus, the Cubs have their own front office/ownership problems.

        Trading away prospects for bandaids to buy time for prospects? They need all the prospects that they can get because they have a ton of holes to fill between now and 2015/16 and not all prospects work out. More are infinitely better.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          I honestly think both of you aren’t as far off in your argument as you’d think.

          I agree that this hole those franchises dug for themselves over the years are, in many ways, self-inflicted. I also think that the fact that the Yankees AREN’T those franchises means that “rebuild” takes a different meaning when you’re the New York Yankees. You don’t completely blow up. You straddle that line as much as you need to.

          To what jjyank and pat have said above, part of the strategy has been to go with short-term vets and part-timers to buy the youngsters time. It hasn’t been executed well, but I don’t disagree with most of the premise.

          Would fans be happier with these losing streaks if it were Jeter, Tex, Alex, and Curtis on the field floundering rather than Nix, Adams, Overbay, and Wells? I wonder how much of this has MORE to do with a lack of connection to, as Mike so eloquently called them, the “New York Generic White Guys.”

        • jjyank

          You’re nitpicking. The payrolls of those other teams doesn’t change the very real possibility that rebuilding isn’t easy and could possibly require multiple attempts at successfully building a powerhouse.

          Also, I never advocated trading prospects for those band-aids. I think you’re confused because my comment just happens to be in this trade target thread. I was referring to guys like Youk, Ichiro, Garcia, Wells, Colon, etc. Short term deals to buy time.

          • ChrisS

            I did confuse your intent re: bandaids.

            However, I stand by the fact that a team that has the capacity to add 1-3 $15 million/yr FA talents, as well as retain sucessful prospects has a much better chance of rebuilding. The Royals are constantly rebuilding because they’re constantly shedding average-to-decent journeymen and their salaries.

            Additionally, two of those clubs were sold within the last few years and shed payroll heavily after the sale.

            The Astros went from $100m/yr in 2009, sold in 2011, and now sport a $26m/yr payroll with nearly zero(!) payroll commitments after this season.

            The Cubs went from $140m/yr in 2009, sold after that season, and are at $100m/yr with only $56 committed next season (even less if Theo can move Soriano and his $19m).

            And Miami and Loria are an even worse example of how to rebuild. They went from $100m/yr, got a new tax payer funded stadium, and then firesaled the shit out of that team so that they’re only committed $5m (Jeff Mathis) next season.

            • Robinson Tilapia

              Still think both of you are saying almost the same exact thing. Negotiations appear farther than they actually are. I see hope for a deal here.

              • Cool Lester Smooth

                Just don’t ask them to share a capital city.

            • jjyank

              A better chance? Sure, of course. My point is rebuilding isn’t a slam dunk to be successful, regardless of how much money you have. The Yankees went 18 years without a championship in the not-too-distant past, and they spent money.

              I feel like the pro-rebuild crowd is too confident that the Yankees can field a championship caliber team in a matter of a couple years if they sell now. I think that’s too risky of an assumption. You’re reading far, far too much into a couple of random team names I threw out instead of my larger, actual point.

    • MannyGeee

      Guys, its insane to think we should go out and get a check and turn it in to cash so we can pay for goods and services. We should take all of that cash and buy as many lottery tickets as possible, because then we’ll potentially have all the monies!

      Is that what I am reading?

      • Jim Is Bored

        Other teams won the lottery! That means we can too!

        (prospect doesn’t turn out)

        WHAT THE HECK?! This team can’t ever do anything right! Why does Cashman just trade for Stanton?

        • Jim Is Bored

          DOESN’T*

          gah.

          • I’m One

            Like I said in the previous thread, “We make it so easy for Cash! Get it done!” :-)

        • MannyGeee

          We suck at developing players. Why can’t the Yankees develop guys like that (third overall pick in 2010, which requires that your team suck for an extended period of time) Manny Machado kid in Baltimore?

          And then when they do (like Robbie Cano), we can decide that he’s not worth keeping around and not worth the money and that he’s overrated and we can call for him to be traded for more prospects!

          • Jim Is Bored

            The silver lining to a mediocre baseball team is the disappearance of the entitled fan. Or so we hope.

            I think everyone should be required to root for at least one terrible team in a major or close to major sport. Being a Terps fan has definitely made me appreciate when a team I’m rooting for is actually good.

            • Cool Lester Smooth

              Yeahhhhh Eagles!

              Of course, that won’t count once Charlie Kelly leads us to our first Super Bowl, and then another one, and another one.

              • Pat D

                Dude, you don’t even know your coach’s name?

                And you wonder why I make fun of Eagles fans.

                • Manny’s BanWagon

                  Charlie Kelly is the shit.

                  Second coming of Vince Lombardi if you ask me.

                • pat

                  He means the dude from it’s Always Sunny.

                • Cool Lester Smooth

                  You do realize that “Chip” is a nickname for the given name “Charles,” right? And that “Charlie” is also short for “Charles?”

                  So, I was making a joke about the fact that our coach, Chip Kelly, whose full first name is “Charles,” as I have previously established, shares a full name with a character on a TV show called “It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia” whose name is also “Charles Kelly,” but prefers the nickname “Charlie.” It’s called a “pop culture reference.”

                  I’m not going to add a snide aside, though, because we’re all Yankees fans here.

                  • Jim Is Bored

                    “Snide aside” is an awesome phrase.

                    • Cool Lester Smooth

                      I was thinking of saying “snarky,” but I couldn’t pass up the rhyme, haha.

                  • Pat D

                    I don’t watch It’s Always Sunny, so, yea, that reference went over my head.

                    And, yea, dumbass me for not realizing “Chip” is a “Charles” nickname. Whenever I hear “Chip,” I immediately think of “Chip and Dale” from Disney.

            • ChrisS

              Lead the way superfan!

              • Jim Is Bored

                You know what? Fuck it. I AM a better fan than a lot of people. Don’t care that it comes across as pretentious. I stick by the teams I root for, I root during good and bad years, I buy tickets to seem them play regardless of record, I know the players on the team, I can speak with at least cursory knowledge about any sport I follow.

                We’re yankee fans. We’re supposed to embody the better-than-you characteristic. No humility bullshit.

                • Jim Is Bored

                  But I’m not entitled to a winning team, or the best players.

                  No one is.

                • Robinson Tilapia

                  Thank you, Jim. No, really, thank you.

                  BTW, can the record reflect that I’ve sort of disagreed with both jjyank and Cool Lester Smooth in this thread?

          • WhittakerWalt

            Cue the “yeah but you can find good players further down in the draft, it’s not impossible” argument. Yeah, because finding a random good player way down in the draft is an exact science!

            • ChrisS

              It used to be a bit easier. The Yankees could afford to throw a bit more money at kids in HS to buy them out of college or cash-strapped teams would pass on kids asking for the moon. But Bud’s push for parity and revenue sharing and slot bonuses, etc. has really eliminated a lot of the Yankees’ financial muscle and put the focus on having a top 5-10 pick.

  • Neil

    Yankees need to wow them now with some prospects and/or whatever before all these other teams get involved. Cash can’t sit back and pretend they don’t need help. He is not in the driver’s seat and he just needs to give this team a chance to be competitive. Overpay on the trade front like you did with Youk and Ichiro! Season is slipping away. I also like Cano hitting second. Get him as many AB as possible.

  • pat

    Utley and his salary for a Brandon Pinder/Zach Nuding type arm and I’d be fine with that. I want nothing to do with giving up Mason Williams or even Gumbs for the other bums. Where’s CJ Henry? Can we resign and retrade him to Philly?

    • pat

      To answer my own rhetorical question CJ (27 y/o) is playing in an Independent league hitting .321/.407/.479.

      What do you think about that Lloyd?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It-IuKPJk0c

    • Robinson Tilapia

      I believe I just found TJ Beam!

      In all seriousness, yes, anything you can get for steps above org fodder, or one of the million “destined for bullpen” arms is fine by me.

  • Robert

    Perfect storm Injuries,Bad contracts and years of poor drafting.We are last years Boston Red Sox only there is no team like the Dodgers to bail us out……
    Spend the rest of the season evaluating our Minor League system
    See what can be done for 2014

  • Neil

    I should rephrase. By overpay I mean stop overrating your prospects and take care of your needs by dealing a Nunez or similar perennial prospects. Perhaps Betances.

  • BaltimoreYankee

    Gary Mathews was Sarge, not John Mayberry.

  • BINNER

    I would have liked to pick up old friend Xavier Nady on a minor league deal who was just released, but that boat has sailed….

  • Frank

    Even if they were able to pull off a deal for one or more of these players, it would be like placing a bandaid on a severed arm. The Yanks are headed for a lengthy transition. This team is old and most of the so called prospects they have in the minors are overrated. The tides have turned. It’s now the Yanks’ turn to occupy the bottom of the standings. For many of you in your 20′s who have never experienced bad Yankees teams, this will likely be a difficult transition to live through. They’ll bounce back, but unfortunately it won’t be this season or next.

    • ChrisS

      Oh how I miss the days of Bob Geren, Alvaro Espinoza, and Pat Kelly.

      It’s been a helluva run, but you can’t stay on top forever. Especially with Bud’s push for parity.

  • Darren

    I would love to see a trade with the Braves. They need a third baseman for the bench and lefty help in the pen. We can give them Nix and Logan for one of their catchers. I’ll throw in Hughes too for some more in return, like any other bat they got.

    I’d be fine with seeing Ichiro go too. Gardner is also someone that we should seriously take a look at dealing. Joba, of course. I wouldn’t feel like we’re necessarily sellers by trading any of these guys. I don’t want to see Robbie go. He’s really irreplaceable. I’d rather deal with his shitty contract in 6 years than 4 years of David Adams playing second.

    • Kosmo

      you mean Gerald Laird C ? no way the Braves deal McCann or the kid for that garbage.

      • Darren

        I would definitely take Laird and his .283 BA in exchange for Logan and Nix.

        I would love McCann for those two plus a centerpiece, although I doubt Hughes does it. Braves need help in the pen, so maybe they get Hughes, Joba, Logan & Nix for McCann. I’d take that.

        Part of the problem is that we have so many blackholes, if we can just improve one by 25% it makes a big difference. So even a minor trade for Laird would be great.

        • MannyGeee

          I would not trade Nix for Laird. Not because I like Nix at all, but who plays SS when you trade the backup to the backup to the starter? And if you say Alberto Gonzalez I will kindly refer you to that nice bag of dicks over there and the clean cutlery next to it.

          • Darren

            Nuney.

            • MannyGeee

              He would be the first backup to Jeter… who’s also hurt and has spent the better part of the past 18 months on the mend.

              I would rather trade the bigger prize of Nunez to a team like Houston and try and get a better catcher for him like Jason Castro. UNLESS you really think Nunez is the heir apparent to Jeter, in which case he better start taking vitamins.

              • Darren

                I assume 18 months was a typo, right? Although I know the 9 months since Jeter got hurt feels like 18 months!

                If Jeter doesn’t come back this season we’re done anyway, so I’m ok with counting on Nuney to fill in for another month.

                • MannyGeee

                  He was hurt last season too, so 18 months is legit. This year it was the wrist/bicep contusion and then the ribcage, and the thumb last season whilst in Scranton.

    • pat

      Gardner is also someone that we should seriously take a look at dealing.

      You mean extending?

      • Darren

        Extending for what and for how long? He’s a good solid player, on the verge of very good, but that’s about it. I’m ok with seeing what we can get – if it’s not just prospects. I don’t want to be true sellers but I don’t think he’s a building block.

        • MannyGeee

          I might extend him for another 3 seasons.

          • Manny’s BanWagon

            That would be the absolute limit and I’d almost say I wouldn’t go beyond 2 years since he’s gonna be 30 in a month and his game is 100% legs and speed.

            • MannyGeee

              and slap power…. don’t forget slap power.

              • Cool Lester Smooth

                Hey now, Gardy’s bumped it up to legitimate GAP power this year.

              • Robinson Tilapia

                What he does in the privacy of his home is his own business. Oh, wait….

        • ChrisS

          He’s probably the only valuable chip that the Yankees have to move for prospects. Everyone else is too expensive, too injured, or not very good.

  • Jeff

    2013 team is a lost cause. Punt.

  • Brian S.

    Sell sell sell! No buy!

  • MannyGeee

    I am not in love with Carlos Ruiz (I know how much the Yankees need a catcher, I get it), but I can sign up for Maybery, Utley and Frandsen. I could see Amaro falling for a guy like Nunez too… maybe not as the centerpiece, but as the second piece behind a prospect. CAUTION: My trade proposal sucks… Maybe is Mason Williams, Nunez, Almonte, Warren get the conversation started?

    The only thing that scares me about this is that we don’t let it ride with Utley in 2014, a la Ichiro. Somewhere, one of Randy Levine’s boys lets him know that Utley is an ultra popular guy and even appeared in an episode of “It’s Always Sunny”, then BOOM… 2/16 for another aging and not super healthy superstar.

    • pat

      Mason Williams, Nunez, Almonte, Warren

      This is essentially a salary dump. Mason, regardless of 2013 production, is one of our top prospects. No freakin thanks. I’d be hesitant to even include Warren.

      • Oy

        His proposal is very realistic. Phillies won’t part with Utley for trash like Neal. If you consider a player who’s been worth 3-4 WAR consistently during his last 3 years a salary dump, a reality check needs is necessary. Mason is exactly the type of player (former top 25-50 proospect, now a top 75-100 prospect due to a bad year) Phillies would demand for him.

        Nunez (a utility infielder ceiling), Almonte (bench piece/AAAA player) and Warren (back end of rotation, reliever) is very fair for a quality utility infielder who’s under control util 2015 and a platoon bat.

        • pat

          It’s still a salary dump whether he’s a good player or not. As Mike said, he’s owed 7.5 million for the rest of the year then he’s gone. It very well might take a high ceiling guy like Mason to get it done, but personally I don’t think we need/want him that badly. I could be wrong though, who would have thought Beltran would bring back a Zack Wheeler?

          • MannyGeee

            It is NOT a salary dump when two guys who are arbitration eligible are included. it is then more of a blockbuster.

            I would not trade those four guys for JUST Utley either, truthfully. Its the other guys that sweeten it for me.

          • Oy

            So, by that logic, if Cano is traded, it’s a salary dump since he’s also owed 7.5 million for the rest of the year and then he’s a FA. Sorry, that’s not the way I see the term salary dump.

            Oh, and considering the team’s current position, I would not trade Mason for 3 months of Utley, even though the swap is fair.

      • MannyGeee

        Amaro said of Utley: “Even though he might be the most popular player, if there are things we have to do with some of these popular players that are going to make our club better, then we have to keep our minds open,” (above)…

        This leads me to believe that the Phils will move Utley if it benefits them. Also, Maybery and Frandsen are NOT salary dumps. Hell, as I look at it more and more, I think I would ask for another fringe prospect if I was the Phils.

    • Cool Lester Smooth

      Counterpoint: Utley is still a good-to-great offensive player, not a black hole of suck like Ichiro.

      • MannyGeee

        Fair enough, I agree that Utley is a REALLY nice offensive player… but counter to your counterpoint:

        You sign Utley in 2014, where are you playing him? UNLESS its a negotiation tactic to get Cano to not ask for A-Rod money. Tex would be back, Cano would be in play, and re-signing him to be a safety net 1B/2B/DH is not the kind of move a team trying to stay under budget would do.

        • Cool Lester Smooth

          It’s more about re-signing him if we lose Cano.

          • MannyGeee

            Completely agree. If Cano walks, I would agree with this

            • Cool Lester Smooth

              Yeah, it’s the same deal as resigning Ichiro to replace Swisher. Except Chase Utley is still good at baseball.

  • mitch

    If Utley stays healthy i think he’s definitely a QO candidate, which probably makes trading for him more difficult

  • LarryM FL

    Here we go again? Two teams that play hard to win every year. Now need each other to salvage a season going South. We give up our young who knows the Phillies demands and we get aging second baseman and catcher who have a nice track record and two platoon players. To brake an addiction to chasing the World Series every year which is not doable as we have seen. You have to go cold turkey. This is my belief with the Yanks. We are standing on the wrong end of the rainbow. Things have changed the era of 30′s, 40′s, 50′s, and 60′s is long gone.

    We need to do more than throw money at the problem. Stick by a plan and let it develop.

    • hogsmog

      “Umm… you seem to have forgotten something.” -The 90s

      • Cool Lester Smooth

        The 90s are an example of sticking to a plan and letting it develop.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      There’s a sentence in the middle there which I agree with, only I’d accuse the fanbase of it more than I’d accuse the Yanks themselves of it. The fans have the addiction of the illusion of chasing the WS. I don’t really believe the team does, at least the team past the 1980′s.

      • TomH

        The thing to chase is the post-season, and to do that annually takes a lot of money. Now and then, if you make that chase, you get lucky and win the World Series. That’s good enough for me, and it may be the only “plan” reasonable enough to get past Seligistic leveling.

        • Cool Lester Smooth

          Exactly. You can’t buy a championship, but you can usually buy a playoff appearance.

          • Robinson Tilapia

            Yes.

            I do think, however, that there is a section of this fanbase who wants the immediate gratification of the 2009 off-season, but without the hangover that results from it later. They want to win every second of the season and off-season all the time.

            Of course, we got that off-season after a season of whining and complaining as to not getting Johan, missing the off-season, etc., and the complaints as to the three guys signed that off-season are not deafening from them.

            They talk about “but if the Boss were alive” without realizing they represent his line of thinking at its worst.

            But hey, the regulars here don’t know shit and the malcontents do.

            • Cool Lester Smooth

              Of course, we’re all just stupid optimists who can’t see the truth as revealed from on high to dalelama.

  • http://up@aol.com Upstate Yanks

    The old Yankees get older. Sending the whole platoon of those trade targets wouldn’t help us unseat B-more or Boston. I hate to say it but I’d start thinking about us selling at the deadline. Hughes, Joba, Kuroda. Are we really even that much worse without those guys?

  • Manny’s BanWagon

    I’m torn between thinking the Yankees should make some trades to salvage this season vs. just taking this season on the chin as a lost season and try and come back strong in the next year or 2 while holding onto their assets.

    • mitch

      I don’t think it has to be one or the other. There are guys available that wouldn’t require giving up any real assets except money. They’re recouping a lot of Teixiera’s contract…use that money to take on a couple contracts. That might not be enough to make them legit contenders, but it will at least make things a little more watchable for the rest of the season.

      • Manny’s BanWagon

        True but the Yankees aren’t getting Utley without including someone out of their top 10 prospects.

        • mitch

          Agreed. I’d love Utley, but i think he makes more sense to other teams anyway. Sticking him at first would be wasting his talent. They could add a first basement for a fraction of the price that would provide 90% of Utley’s offense.

          • mitch

            i think “first basement” was a typo. Do Freudian slips work with typing?

            • Manny’s BanWagon

              I love Utley but how could you pencil him into 2nd base when he’s missed about 50, 60, 80 games the last 3 years and almost 30 this year already?

              Maybe as 1st base/DH to try and keep his bat in the lineup.

            • TomH

              You bet “Freudian slips work with typing”–sometimes.

          • ChrisS

            Agreed. Utley as a 1B isn’t nearly as valuable as Utley the 2B and the Yankees don’t need a 2B. They need everything but a 2B.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      It just depends to me on what it takes to make those moves. Like you said, if I have to give up a guy I think could be a strong contributor down the line, I’d rather take it on the chin.

  • Crime Dog

    Philly is a prime team to make a deal with if the Yankees buy soon. Although Utley would be ideal, I think a Ruiz/Mayberry deal makes more sense really. Mayberry could effectively take ABs from Overbay and Wells while hopefully providing a little power.

  • Robinson Tilapia

    My answer to about 90% of “possible trade partner” posts:

    I’m not buying for anyone who could be a potential strong contributor for this team in the next three seasons.

    I’m not selling unless I’m getting multiple pieces back who fit the above description.

    I’m not trading Robinson Cano unless there are strong signs he winds up signing at the end of the season before the deadline.

    I went from age four to age 22 without watching this team win a championship, and was rewarded with this glorious stretch of five championships and making the post-season 17 out of 18 seasons. I expect I won’t have to wait as long this time around.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      Obviously, that should read “signing somewhere else” with Robbie.

    • Crime Dog

      What’s your criteria for a strong contributor? Above average starting position player? League average starter? I sort of go along with the same idea for a trade, however I’m a sucker for high ceiling guys. So, if they wind up selling (highly doubt that happens), I’d be okay with taking a gamble on a guy who isn’t a definite contributor in the future, but who’s ceiling is high.

      • Robinson Tilapia

        I’d say my criteria isn’t “superstar.” It’s someone who you could see developing into a mainstay on the MLB roster on a contending team.

        • ChrisS

          Yeah and not someone who will be lucky to be on a baseball team in 2 seasons.

          • Robinson Tilapia

            Also not only someone who’s projected to be a cross between Miguel Cabrera, Bryce Harper, and Jesus.

            • Cool Lester Smooth

              Which Jesus, Our Savior or that dude from Nazareth?

            • Jim Is Bored

              Walking on water could be the next market inefficiency.

  • Gonzo

    I’m curious if anyone is swayed by this being Mo’s last year? That is, are you more inclined to trade prospects because it’s Mo’s last year?

    • Jim Is Bored

      Nope. Mo’s free to come back next year :)

      • Gonzo

        Come back to what?

        • Jim Is Bored

          …the yankees?

          He’s free to play again next year. No one’s making him retire.

          • Gonzo

            Joking. Meaning will the club be in any better of a position next year?

            • Jim Is Bored

              Ah. Gotcha. Who knows?

    • TomH

      Nope. Rivera’s slipping into history. The Yankees should do what needs to be done in the team’s best interests, even if (for mere example) that meant tossing in the towel on the 2013 season.

      • Robinson Tilapia

        Agreed.

      • Gonzo

        I’m not a prospect hugger, but I’m not really excited about what’s out there in the trade market, so I’m torn.

        • Cool Lester Smooth

          I’d break the non-Sanchez/DePaula/Williams piggy bank for Lucroy, but no one else on the market right now.

          • Gonzo

            I have no problem trading any of those guys for Lucroy.

            • Cool Lester Smooth

              I’d probably throw Williams, but I love me some Gary Sanchez.

              • Gonzo

                I do too, but Lucroy is somewhat established and has a decent contract. If he performs well, you could have him for 4 years after this year. He’s not real young, but he’s not real old for a catcher at 27 (just turned).

                I dunno, 3 1/2 years (possibly 4 1/2 yrs) of Lucroy at a decent pricetag vs. 6 controlled years of a catcher that hasn’t hit AA yet. I love Sanchez too, but give me Lucroy in that scenario.

                • Cool Lester Smooth

                  I’d just want to see Lucroy finish the year at a 110-ish wRC+ (.350-ish wOBA) before I give up my top prospect for him.

                  I’d be a lot more comfortable basing the package around Murphy+, even if it meant throwing Phelps instead of Nova or Warren.

                  • Gonzo

                    We disagree big time then. No worries. Gary Sanchez is not that far above your threshold and he’s in A+ ball.

                    Like I said, I like Gary, but you have to draw the line somewhere. You are banking a lot on those 6 years of control, years down the line, to pass up 3-1/2 to 4-1/2 years of cost certainty for a guy that’s in the MLB right now. Seems almost like a no-brainer for me. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

                    • Cool Lester Smooth

                      He has a 125 wRC+ as a 20 year old in the second worst offensive environment in the minor leagues. I want to see at least two above average offensive seasons out of a player before I trade my #1 prospect as part of a package for him.

                    • Cool Lester Smooth

                      I am, admittedly, a huge prospect hugger, though.

                    • Gonzo

                      I believe wRC+ takes into account environment I believe even for the minors.

                    • jjyank

                      wRC+ takes the league into account, but not the park for MiLB stats., for what it’s worth.

                      http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/what-is-wrc/

                      That said, Sanchez is only 20 years old and has also improved his BB%, K%, and his power numbers during his second crack at high A ball. I too would like to see him dealt for someone better/with a longer track record than Lucroy, if at all.

                    • Cool Lester Smooth

                      It takes into account league, but not park.

                    • Gonzo

                      I wouldn’t lose a wink if he was traded for Lucroy. I think the odds that Sanchez never produces a .350 wOBA plus 110+ wRC+ are higher than you guys think. That’s borderline all-star work for a catcher.

                      I don’t think you guys are taking Lucroy’s contract into account either, but maybe you are and just disagree.

                      Gary Sanchez is a worse hitter on the road than at home this year too. .836 OPS at home vs .790 away. Like I said, you have a lot of faith in 6 years of control far away.

                    • Gonzo

                      Also, I believe that many catchers take time to get used to MLB catching and hitting. That means you are getting 6 years of control but some of that time is going to have be used to getting used to the bigs. You may disagree with me there though.

                      That means you have 6+ (maybe less if he busts which some writers have said he has a risk of doing) years of control, minus adjustment time, years away vs. 3 1/2 or 4 1/2 years of a MLB of a good* MLB catcher at cost control+certainty now.

                      The argument for Sanchez is just that he’s young and doing well in A+ ball. That seems to me to be the argument for trading him.

                      *I’m not sure you agree that he’s good, so we can disagree here too.

                    • jjyank

                      Gonzo, your rationale is definitely legitimate, I won’t argue with it. I could very well be wrong, but I am admittedly high on Sanchez. Not just high on him as a prospect, but I personally would like to see Sanchez, either himself or in a package, dealt for someone more elite than Lucroy. Lucroy would be a damn fine player to have, and I would love him on this team, but I just feel that Sanchez is too big of a bullet.

                      But again, you make perfect sense and I do see your side there. I just personally wouldn’t pull the trigger.

                    • Gonzo

                      Your side makes sense too if you are higher on Sanchez and lower on Lucroy than I. I am assuming you CLSmooth are. :)

                      I just can’t see a rival GM making Sanchez the centerpiece for a bigger fish that’s cost controlled for as low as Lucroy is for possibly the next 4 1/2 years. That’s hella good value. If you want to trade for a better player at less years, I’m ok with that too.

                    • Cool Lester Smooth

                      I’d love to get Lucroy, but my man-crush on Gary Sanchez comes first.

    • Nat King Kong

      I’m more inclined to trade prospects because they usually don’t amount to anything — especially Yankee prospects, lately — not because it’s Mo’s last year. The team has to do what’s best for its present and future regardless of the circumstances of one individual.

  • celerino sanchez

    It’s over Johnny. Trade Cano trade Granderson. Start the process.

    • Cool Lester Smooth

      Heh, you should ask Royals fans about “The Process.”

  • Crime Dog

    From my cloudy memory, I seem to remember Utley wanting to move to 3rd, but it was late last year and the team said it was too late in the year to do it. The team said they may revisit it this year, but then they signed the unmovable Michael Young, so that never happened. I may be wrong, however, I don’t remember it “failing”.