Friday Night Open Thread

What Went Wrong: Travis Hafner
Marchand: Yankees could go on $300M spending spree this offseason

Happy Friday everyone. Here is your open thread for the evening. The Cardinals are playing the Dodgers and hoping to advance to the World Series yet again at 8pm ET on TBS (Michael Wacha vs. Clayton Kershaw), but there are no local sports tonight at all. Nothing professional, anyway. The NLCS it is. Talk about the game or whatever else here. Go bonkers.

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What Went Wrong: Travis Hafner
Marchand: Yankees could go on $300M spending spree this offseason
  • OldYanksFan

    The Yankees … front office is devising a plan that could have the team going on a $300 million shopping spree, sources have told ESPNNewYork.com.

    The Yankees’ initial main targets are expected to include their own Robinson Cano, Japanese starter Masahiro Tanaka, Atlanta Braves catcher Brian McCann and St. Louis Cardinals outfielder Carlos Beltran, according to sources.

    • Preston

      I’d rather spend the money to bring back Kuroda and Granderson and keep the draft picks then go after McCann and Beltran.

      • Need Pitching & Hitting

        Keeping Kuroda and Granderson would also likely mean sacrificing potential draft picks (although the highest pick sacrificed would be in the 30’s instead of 18)

      • Mr. Roth

        Both of those items are part of the plan outlined in the article.

        • Need Pitching & Hitting

          Those are more as other options, they aren’t going to fit them all under $189M
          By the article, it seems the Yankees priorities are something like:
          Cano
          Tanaka
          McCann
          Beltran
          Kuroda
          Granderson
          With the likelihood that they can’t sign more than 2 or 3 from that list (unless they abandon $189m)

          I doubt there’s any chance they sign both Beltran and Granderson.

          • Mr. Roth

            I read it as the Yankees would be willing to include Kuroda and Granderson in the plans if they would take 1 year deals.

            • forensic

              I don’t think that realistic, for draft pick, roster space/construction, and salary reasons.

              I read it much more in line with what NP&H is saying.

              • Mr. Roth

                You’re probably right, the article was more of a wish list than a plan

          • JGYank

            Out of those guys I would sign Cano, Kuroda, Granderson, McCann, and probably Tanaka if we won the bid. I worry about Beltran’s age/injury history (and declining OBP) and see Grandy as a nice fit for the Yanks being a lefty power hitter that walks a good amount and is a class act. He is younger and outside of the HBPs more durable than Beltran and we know what we’ll get from him. I’ll take Grandy if he doesn’t want too much but Beltran isn’t bad either even if we get a lower pick. McCann is an obvious upgrade. Definitely would sign him for the right price and maybe even give up a pick for him. Kuroda was very good overall last year despite the rough ending to his season but I’d be happy to have him back on a one year deal. I don’t know much about Tanaka, but I see him as a middle of the rotation guy that is similar to Kuroda that could replace Pettitte’s spot in the rotation. Cano is the key to our lineup and unless we want to use the money to improve other spots we need to keep him to contend next year. Obviously we can’t offer him too much and I wouldn’t go over 7 years.

            Problem is with the $189M goal we probably can’t sign all those guys so I would stick with at least Cano, Tanaka/Kuroda, and Beltran/Granderson. I could live with what we have at C only if we upgrade at other positions. Maybe also need a reliever and some bench guys but that is much easier to find.

            • Kosmo

              just to point out granderson´s declining OBP is far worse than Beltran´s these last 4 years.

              • JGYank

                I don’t put much stock into last year, and most of his value is from his XBHs anyway. He did very well in 2011 but I think we’ll see around a .330 OBP from him with 30+ HRs and average defense. I’ll take that from any position. I’m worried Beltran at 36 is declining for good and will continue to see his numbers drop. Grandy is a few years younger and can still rebound a bit. He’s also much more durable. Plus he’s a great fit for YS and is fast for a corner outfielder and can play center in a pinch. But I’m fine with either as long as Ichiro is on the bench more often than not and Wells has an extremely limited role or is off the team. But I’d prefer Grandy slightly.

      • Mr. Roth

        Personally I’d rather have a competitive team next year than a scratch off lottery ticket that may or not end up being a winner in the next 4-5 years.

    • Pat D

      That’s like the absolute best of the best-case scenarios.

      Meaning I think there’s only a slight chance of it all happening.

    • hogsmog

      I think McCann would be a lot of fun, and I would like to see them keep Cano. I’d rather not get Beltran though; he’s probably better in the abstract, but I think Granderson would be way more bang for the buck considering his disappointing 2013 and relative youth.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      Nice to have some positive complete fluff pieces to read, I guess.

      • SDB

        It is a nice change from Cashman Failed.

    • Grammercy Riffs Leader

      I want them all. I want all the Warriors.

  • http://twitter.com/#!/Clay_Bellinger Clay Bellinger

    Kershaw.

    • forensic

      Earlier in the series it was Greinke vs. Kershaw, so now two Card’s pitchers have to face-off to make it even.

  • forensic

    Nothing professional, anyway

    At least that still leaves the Knicks as an option…

  • Hall and Nokes

    There’s a non-zero chance that after tonight, every remaining game in the baseball season will be won by the Red Sox. How is everyone doing tonight?

    • Mr. Roth

      There’s also a non-zero chance that the Red Sox will play only two more games.

      • FIPster Doofus

        “So you’re telling me there’s a non-zero chance?”-Lloyd X-mas

  • lurker bee

    <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/video.....&quot; Mariano Rivera on Charlie Rose yesterday

  • The Real Greg

    So the Cardinals are essentially 1 win away last year from going to 3 straight World Series.

    • Pat D

      Been there, done that.

      • The Real Greg

        True, but not in this day and age of shared revenue.

        Proof that you don’t need to suck to have great prospects and a great farm system.

        • Pat D

          I don’t care what day or age in which it was done.

    • forensic

      That one win they missed was kind of a big deal, meaning it’s not 3 straight WS.

      • The Real Greg

        I don’t understand you. It would have been if they got the one more win against the Giants in the 2012 NLCS.

        • forensic

          Right, but again, it isn’t 3 straight and 2 out of 3 WS isn’t that uncommon which is all that they are now. The Rangers did 2 straight, the Giants did 2 out of 3, the Phillies did 2 straight, the Tigers still have a shot at 2 straight this year, the Cardinals did another 2 out of 3, the Yankees did 2 out of 3, and that’s all just since the end of the Yankees run in 2000 (and all of those except the Yankees are in the last 10 years).

          It’s impressive, but it’s not some unprecedented run, even in recent times.

          • The Real Greg

            Fair enough, but it is worth noting. Especially since that included losing the greatest hitter of the 2000s and not missing a beat.

        • BFDeal

          You’re purposely being obtuse.

          • SDB

            It’s Greg. I don’t think it’s deliberate.

  • Nathan

    Nice catch by Beltran!

  • forensic

    So glad I was able to watch the game at just the right time to see some of the Cardinals opening up a can on LA and especially to see Puig messing up another play in the field.

    Loving the Dodgers getting embarrassed here.

    • yankeeTX

      I see posts where people lament the fact that the Yankees didn’t pursue Puig, but the media and fans here would tear him a new one.

    • Pat D

      I disagree. I don’t have anything in particular against the Cardinals other than history, but I’d determined the Dodgers to be the lesser of all evils in this shit.

    • The Big City of Dreams

      Why such a dislike for the Dodgers??

      • forensic

        Just too much of a Red Sox tinge to them, and just too much attention and declarations that they had the championship all sewn up basically because of a 50 game stretch (albeit, an awfully impressive 50 game stretch). There’s also the Puig factor. I hate when people do a bunch of the unnecessary stuff that he does.

      • Wheels

        1981?

        • Robinson Tilapia

          I know more than a few folks who’d give this reason.

  • OldYanksFan

    Bob Nightengale ?@BNightengale (h/t Lohud)
    The #Reds decided a month ago that they will shop Brandon Phillips this winter w all intents to trade him
    ————————————
    He has been a 3.5 bWAR player over the last 7 years.
    He is 32 with 4/$50m left on his contract.
    Is this a reasonable compromise compared to Robbie at 8/$180m+?

    • Pat D

      If by “reasonable compromise,” you mean “significant downgrade.”

      • OldYanksFan

        No. Obviously, ANY player compared to Robbie is a downgrade. That’s the territory. But what about the extra $130m+ we get to play with?

        Robbie is going to the highest bidder.
        Maybe we should look at 2Bmen while they are still available.

        • Pat D

          You mean the ~$25 million per year? The two or three players they could get for that probably won’t contribute more than Cano for at least 4-5 years.

    • forensic

      I don’t really want to go to 8 years with Cano, but since it’s basically a given that it’s going to end up there after starting at 7 years, I’d rather do that than take Phillips, who I’m not a fan of.

  • forensic

    I don’t bother following pre-draft rankings and stuff, so for people who may remember, what’s the deal with Wacha not being picked until #19 in his draft?

    Has he changed/drastically improved something since joining the Cards organization? Did other teams just underrate him for some reason?

    I know it’s less than 100 innings, and could very well end up just being a sort of fluky stretch, but it doesn’t seem like someone who can come into the majors the year after he’s drafted and pitch like he has should drop to #19.

    • Tom

      I think most people pre-draft saw him as more of a #3-4 rotation guy with a very high floor but somewhat limited ceiling. (A classic fast mover college guy) Some orgs also tend to shy away from college pitchers for some reason.

      Not entirely sold he’s a front of the rotation guy long term – a lot depends on how his curveball develops. I think he’s more of a marginal #2 or #3 (unless of course the curve gets good which is certainly possible), even an average curve would probably turn him into a #2 type guy.

      I do think there is a bit of a draft bias against college pitchers who don’t have a “true ace” ceiling (whatever the hell that means)

  • Pat D

    Two things about that video:

    1) So hilarious to see Jose Canseco on the field celebrating the 2000 World Series.

    2) The sight of Pettitte and Jeter taking Mo out of his last game will never not make me tear up.

  • Reuben Sierra’s Chains

    FUCK THIS SEASON!!

    If I have to watch Boston celebrate like the Cards are doing right now I am going to find the biggest butcher knife I can and stab my damn eyes out of my damn face!!

    ENOUGH of the 2013 BASEBALL SEASON ALREADY!! SHIT

    • jim p

      My hope is that Selig goes into the locker room if Boston wins and sees them ALL shooting up PEDs. Maybe with a neon-sign over a bowl: PEDs and Needles Here.

      The whole team gets instantly suspended and they have to call up their farm system.

    • SDB

      I’d prefer to see Scherzer and Verlander take a few pages out of Wacha’s book, and shut down the Botox offense this weekend.

      Let the Tigers and Cards play each other, and let Napoli and co. comb the lice out of their beards.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      I really haven’t been watching outside of a couple of games where I watched because others wanted to watch. It’s been a nice moment to focus in the NFL and get ready for three-peat time in the NBA.

      My preferred defense mechanism here is rationalization. I’ve rationalized this away by thinking is rather the Sox win during a season where the Yankees really weren’t in it in the end.

      Can’t say my hatred of this crew even was there half the season…..until the fucking beards. I swear they always find a way to kill the one millimeter of good will they could ever have with me. Mike Carp looks like ringworm.

  • Kosmo

    it is possible for NY to sign Cano, Tanaka, McCann and Beltran and still remain under 189.
    Cano 22-25 mil
    Tanaka 10 mil going on what Darvish is making
    Beltran 14 mil 2 years 28 mil
    McCann 16 mil 4-5 years

    NY unofficially has slightly less than 70 mil to work with so signing these 4 is very possible provided all would want to play for NY and of course NY wins the posting fee for Tanaka.

    if Arod is suspended for a full season then NY could resign Kuroda which would still leave about 10 million to work with.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting

      Without ARod, they’d have about $80M to work with, in terms of luxury tax dollars, factoring in benefits, 40-man roster, arbitration raises, etc. (assuming Jeter exercises his option)

      With Arod, they’d only have about $55M to work with. They could maybe just barely squeeze in the 4 above (Cano, Tanaka, McCann, and Beltran) if ARod ends up with just a 50-game suspension, but it would require filling DH (or RF if Beltran is DH), SS (if Jeter can’t play SS full time), bench, bullpen, and 2 rotation spots from within.

      • Robinson Tilapia

        Four big prize FAs is an extremely tall order, no matter the team and/or budget.

        This is all great talk. I’ll be rather surprised if it all goes this way.

  • Chris

    Sorry for the typos. This f-ing new iOS on the iPhone. I hurl is supposed to be ichiro. Do you think Mike had that changed?

  • Chris

    One if the problems is that if A-Rod is suspended for say half the season then the luxury tax is actually 183 million as there is no way he is not hitting 6 homers to her his bonus. I really can’t see him being suspended for more than that. I would try to sign Kuroda for sure as if we get Tanaka he and I hurl can help him acclimate. Offer Cano the same delL and if he does not accept, let him walk. Dude has only hit 30 homers once. 25 million? Crazy numbers for his production. We will all be moaning in 4 years like we are today with all of these bloated contracts. These contracts never work out. A–Rod, Pujols, Howard, Fielder, Crawford etc. there are not getting McCann although would like to have him on a 4 year deal. Hopefully Grandersons will accept the one year deal while we figure out a long term solution. I actually wouldn’t mind him on a 3 year 39 mil deal I he would accept. We certainly can use the pop in his bat. Beltran would be nice if he accepted a club friendly deal but he is most likely looking for one last payday (again).

    Pitching would look like this:

    CC
    Nova
    Kuroda
    Tanaka
    Phelps/Pineda/etc

    Not too bad. A lot of question marks but also can give our our young arms a chance.

  • mt

    Someone needs to do an article from ground up to say how much Yankees really have – for example, the artcile mentioned that Jeter’s salary goes from $17 million to $9.5 million but didn’t explain that his AAV (if he takes the option) will actually go up from $14 million to $15.5 million (because the 4 years at $56 million is $14 million AAV plus add in $1.5 million of achieved incentives).

    Also the ARod suspension is huge – not just for the $27.5 million AAV swing but also will Yanks have to leave $6 million room for the 660 HR incentive payment – even if Arod gets suspended for 100 games, saving approximate $17 million in AAV, Arod still playing 62 games in 2014 would mean they would have to leave room for the possibility that he hits 6 HRs and gets paid the $6 million.

    The analysis that build ground up with better numbers (including real AAVs as opposed to annual 2014 salaries, full 40 man roster, the benefits cost, the arb raises, range of Arod suspension savings balanced by possibility of the home run bonus, higher Free agent prices than what this article shows) would literally be the real home run. Suffice it to say, Yanks keeping to $189 million goal will mean they cannot sign all these players mentioned in the ESPN article.

    Also Pence contract means a Granderson FA long-term contract may be more than we thought and Abreu contract means Tanaka may cost a little more on any contrcat than we thought. Also I don’t care what Magic Johnson said – if Dodgers can dump Ethier (or maybe Kemp), I can see them trying to re-sign Kershaw and also sign Cano. Tigers losing one of next 2 ALCS games will also help Cano market (Tigers should be interesting since there is now such negativity on Fielder (whether jusified or not) – will team then turn around and try to add another big, long-term contract like Cano (I keep seeing that Tigers may trade one year of Boras client Scherzer to lower their payroll).