Dec
04

Wednesday Night Open Thread

By

These last 24 hours have been pretty hectic. Really the last 72 hours given all the trades and signings going on around the league that somehow trickle down and impact the Yankees. Brian McCann will be introduced tomorrow and it sounds like Jacoby Ellsbury will be introduced sometime in the next week. He took his physical today. I’m guessing the Yankees will have at least one more big introductory press conference after that, most likely for a pitcher. Just a guess. Would they have one for re-signing Robinson Cano? Probably not, but I suppose they could hold one in an effort to drive up interest heading into Spring Training or whatever.

Anyway, here is your open thread for the night. The Devils are the only local team in action, so this sounds like a Netflix night. Maybe catch up on some sleep. Talk about whatever, enjoy.

Categories : Open Thread

133 Comments»

  1. Need Pitching & Hitting says:

    So it looks like the new posting system is going to have a $20M max posting fee, and the player will be able to negotiate with any team that matches that.
    So basically, it looks like Tanaka will be able to get a very un-luxury tax friendly massive contract.
    Hopefully $189M really is dead – with or without ARod.

    • Cano Cango says:

      Where did you hear that about the posting system?

    • Alkaline says:

      If only the new system could have waited a year..

    • RetroRob says:

      If that is indeed the final agreement, then the Yankees still have a better chance than most teams of signing some of the top players. A higher percentage of players coming from Japan probably would like to play for the Yankees and will guess they can also get more money from the Yankees than they would from the Astros.

      • RetroRob says:

        I just read the article. I didn’t realize the player can also negotiate with all the teams who submit the highest bid. It still plays to the Yankees strength (money), yet it in essence means a player like Tanaka will be able to negotiate with many teams as long as they submit the highest bid (which will be $20M for him).

        Tanaka should be dancing somewhere if this is indeed the deal. Darvish would not be a Texas Ranger and would have a much higher contract if this system was in place a couple years back.

        • perspective says:

          TX still went big ponying up some 120M….that’s a 100M contract in the proposed system.

        • radnom says:

          This is why passing on Darvish was a mistake, even if he had a risk of completely flaming out (which pitcher doesn’t). The old system played right into the Yankee’s hands, and we already knew about $189 at the time. If only they weren’t timid after getting burned by spending $40MM on a guy they didn’t even know what pitches he threw.

    • UncleArgyle says:

      This is a great outcome. Basically the Yankees should have a leg up on signing any Japanese player they desire in the future. Twenty Million is chump change in Steinspeak and the Yankees are still THE YANKEES in Japan. This new agreement basically insures that Tanaka is in pinstripes next year.

      • BamBamMusings says:

        Not with a budget it doesn’t.

        • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

          Exactly.
          I’d imagine Tanaka could probably command a $20M+ AAV.
          I doubt the Yankees could do that, fill all of their other needs, and still get under $189M, even if ARod is suspended for the full year.

          • Robinson Tilapia says:

            The question is do you give a guy who hasn’t pitched an inning in the big leagues that.

            • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

              The way the market is going, I can definitely see that happening.
              As for whether the Yankees should do it – their lone advantage is $$$. They need to find a way to get premier, young talent. It’s risky, but it might be worthwhile. (Not that I’ve ever even seen Tanaka pitch)

              • Robinson Tilapia says:

                I guess the 100 million posting fee is the same amount of money as five years at 20 mil. Just a different line on the budget.

                • Farewell Mo says:

                  Yep.

                  Even under the old system the total cost was gonna be upward of $110-$120 million.

                  • Joel says:

                    Not really. Because in the former posting system, the posting money didn’t count against the team’s payroll. Now, Tanaka probably gets more annual money, and all of that goes against the luxury tax. Plan 189 takes a hit under the news posting rules.

            • forensic says:

              Personally, I think they have such a glaring weakness and need in the rotation for any possible youth combined with ability that they should still really go after him. Guys with his potential ability just don’t hit the market much, if ever, at that age anymore.

              In the position they’re in, I think it’s better to go in for a risk like Tanaka than to give potentially similar money to someone like Garza.

          • Chris H says:

            He might be able to get that much but his stuff is very average, we’re talking averaging 90-91 on his fastball and he’s thrown a ton of pitches for a 24 year ols. Under this new system I’d stay away if I’m the Yankees.

            • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

              Everything I’ve read is he’s a potential #2 starter with a great split finger. I’d hardly call that very average.

              • Chris H says:

                He has a great split finger but everything I’ve read said he averaged just under 91 on his fastball last year, he pitches mostly up in the zone, and he throws a ton of sliders that tend to finish high in the zone. It’s possible he could be a number 2 starter but I’ve read just as much saying he could be a 3/4/5 just as easy. Infact his split is suppose to be his only pitch that outright rates as plus, the rest are average.

          • RetroRob says:

            I don’t see him getting a $20M AAV because he is still unproven. Teams will still treat the posting fee differently from the actual contract. A $10M AAV contract is movable if a pitcher like Tanaka comes in and is less than advertised. A $20M AAV becomes unmovable. So Tanaka’s contract will be higher under this new system, but I don’t see the unspent posting fee dollars flowing 1-for-1 into his contract.

            • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

              Maybe.
              But I could see Tanaka possibly being more attractive to teams than guys like Garza, Santana, or Jimenez. I’d think those guys could probably get AJ/Lackey AAV’s or above, so I could see Tanaka getting higher than that. Maybe not quite $20, but something close.
              As for the contract being movable, is there really a difference between a big posting fee being a sunk cost up front and eating part of a contract later to make the AAV more attractive?
              I’d think the second scenario might even be more attractive for a team as it would delay the payment.
              Example: $60M posting fee, 6/$60M traded after year 3.
              Team would have spent $90M total for 3 years (posting fee + 3 years salary – assuming not back or front loaded)
              Alternate: $20M posting fee, 6/$100M contract traded after year 3, while eating $20M of last 3 years salary (leaving a $10M AAV for acquiring team). Team still would have spent $90M total for 3 years, but would have delayed more of the payments.

              The only big effect I see would be for teams that exceed the luxury tax threshold having more of the payments subject to luxury tax, but there figure to be enough non-luxury tax teams bidding that I’m not sure that would hold down the bidding much, if at all.

              • RetroRob says:

                Well we’re not going to have to wait too long to find out!

                Tanaka should be posted once this is final and we’ll see how many teams go in for $20M (and I suspect that will be quite a few) and then more importantly how much he gets.

        • Cano Cango says:

          Yeah the budget thing will hinder a bit with this system. Tanaka on a semi-open market can now potentially get 20 Mil per. Cant see us going that far on him.

        • BamBamMusings says:

          The one thing that IS working in our favor with the new rules is that the lowest winning % team will get the exclusive rights to negotiate in the case of a tie.

          ***** The proposal states that should multiple teams submit maximum bids for Japanese players, the team with the lowest winning percentage would gain negotiating rights. *****

          That puts us ahead of LA, Det, and Tex. It does not however put us ahead of SEA. I can see him going to Sea with these rules in place.

          • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

            I think the current proposal would allow the player to negotiate with any and all of the teams that tied for the highest bid.

          • Jimmy says:

            I think that is not what the current proposed posting agreement says now, there is a new proposal out there that allows the player discretion to negotiate with the team of his choosing as long as they matched the highest bid.

          • Albearrrr says:

            That’s interesting. I thought the point was to get the Japanese player to negotiate with multiple teams? If I’m Toronto lets say, I bid the 20 mil and then let the player decline my low ball offer thereby keeping him away from The Yanks and Red Sox. There hasto be more to that stipulation.

            Either way, sucks for the Yanks this year.

      • forensic says:

        Actually, it ensures that the actual contract the player gets will be larger (potentially much larger) making an even bigger luxury tax hit and a possibly less likely agreement between the Yankees and the player.

      • yankees53 says:

        Not unless Cano is definitely gone or plan 189 is abandoned…what it means is Tanaka is going to cost a lot more in terms of a salary hit to the payroll.

  2. Anthony says:

    So what does everyone thing about this rumor regarding the Mariners on the verge of making a “panic move” that’s so significant it could “get a GM fired.” Couple that with Jack Z’s comments today about “the is now” to augment their team?

    • whozits says:

      “the is now”???

    • Tom says:

      I believe it. I think they will likely miss out on Cano and Choo, but will make huge offers and they will hit desperation mode for a bat.

      My guess is one part will be a massive overpay to Nelson Cruz. Maybe Beltran? (though I doubt he wants to go there if winning is a priority)

      The other possible move I could see is signing a guy like Garza and trying to flip one of his young pitching prospects for an expensive bat (Kemp? Ethier?)

      Jack Z is already on his last legs, so it’s not like it would take much to get him fired.

    • Deep Thoughts says:

      Well, by taking Ellsbury off the board, the Mariners might instead try to make a splash by trading a package around Tajuan Walker to the Rays for David Price.

      So even if Ellsbury sucks, the signing would get one of the two worst lefty Yankee-killers out of the division.

  3. cuponoodles says:

    I thought it was the player gets to pick which team he wants to negotiate with if there are ties for the maximum bid.

  4. Dean says:

    Can someone please tell me the time for McCanns press conference tomorrow? I’d truly appreciate it thank you.

  5. TWTR says:

    The length of Ellsbury’s contract aside, it’s kind of nice to have something real to talk about, and at least the prospect of some hope that next season could be fun.

    • UncleArgyle says:

      At the end of Ellsburys contract he’ll be younger than Beltran is now. I’m ok (not thrilled mind you) with 7 years.

    • forensic says:

      For me, it’s much more the money than the length associated with the contract. Especially when you see sources say the Red Sox (smartly) were holding at 5 years and $80 million. Sure, other teams could have gone higher than that, but 2 years and another $73 million??? It just seems absurd to me, especially with the way they’re trying to toe the line with Cano, who I wouldn’t go crazy all-out to sign, but how can you say Cano is only worth an extra $1-$2 million per year over an Ellsbury?

      I don’t see how it all fits together and it’s going to be very disappointing if they’re willing to put all this money into an Ellsbury but not a bit more into a Cano.

      I’ve even made my peace with the McCann contract, but this Ellsbury one is way out there, to me.

      • perspective says:

        The M’s were reportedly in on ells too…considering they are supposedly going big for canoits not hard to imagine them driving the price on ellsbury.

        • perspective says:

          We also can’t count NY out on Cano…as much as it suits the sky is falling narrative that so many adore.

          • The Other Sam says:

            What is up with that? One minute I read, ‘hold firm on Cano’s offer Yanks. Let him walk if he wants more.’ Next I
            hear, ‘the Ellsbury signing is horrible because it’ll insult Cano and they’re not offering him enough.’ It’s bizarre.

            I’m starting to wonder if Cano leaves they’ll blame & boo Ellsbury. Noot sureif they’reRobbiefans or Robbie’s a big boy capable of making decisions and so are the Yankees

      • UncleArgyle says:

        Word on the street is that the Sox offered 6 @ 20. But yeah, that’s a much bigger contract than I expected. Crazy money

        • forensic says:

          Maybe, but this is the last thing I saw about it on MLBTR this afternoon:

          •Ken Davidoff of the New York Post tweets that Boston’s talks with Ellsbury didn’t go too far beyond the five-year, $80MM range. That jives with previous reports that the Red Sox didn’t want to give Ellsbury $100MM or more and last night’s report that their offer was “a ways off” from that of the Yankees.

  6. Alkaline says:

    Damnit. There goes Ellsbury now. Cashman is going to mess up again if he doesn’t start signing people. Everyone else is busy with their offseason and he’s sitting on his ass.

    Oh…wait…we got Ellsbury? And McCann? And perhaps Johnson?

    It’s a start ;)

  7. Jag says:

    So what number is Ellsbury going to wear? I’m pretty sure he won’t be #2 with the Yankees. :)

  8. JGYank says:

    First play of that video seems fitting representing how cano’s camp has handled this offseason with ellsbury taking advantage of it.

    Also ellsbury hit some deep homers in that video. Didn’t think he had power like that.

  9. What Me, Worry? says:

    “My wallet, here let me open it.” – Hal S.

    Tanaka is a must-have for them.

  10. BamBamMusings says:

    Tanaka should probably be #1 on the list right now. (just because we have at least 3 SP and 1 RP hole in the roster) Cano 1A. If we can get both, i’ll be a very happy camper..

    • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

      IF he even gets posted…

      —–
      Peter Gammons
      ?@pgammo
      Not only are Rakuten Golden Eagles opposed to ever-changing US posting rules, but tonight leaning against posting Tanaka, period.

      A $20M posting fee may not be enough to entice Japanese teams to part with superstars.

      • Jimmy says:

        I was wondering about this. They probably stand to lose more than $20M in marketing & sales (admitted I don’t know how teams are run there, how much revenue is shared, etc.) by giving up a star player.

      • Tom says:

        I mentioned this potential issue in the other thread.

        For some of the true superstar players in Japan going forward, a team my see more value in just holding onto the player vs a one time 20mil payout.

        The other thing is there really is now no reason for a team to post a guy who will get the max early in his career. Under the old system teams had some incentive as younger guys might have gotten them a bigger posting fee. If a team has a young superstar why post him at age 22 if you are in all likelihood going to get the same posting fee 5 years later?

        • forensic says:

          Yup, I wouldn’t be surprised now if no big-time Japanese players were posted until the offseason before their nine-year FA, if even then depending on what the team views in terms of their chances of winning with/without the player and the revenue they may lose there.

      • Robinson Tilapia says:

        Not surprised.

        Just make them free agents or do the worldwide draft already.

        • Chris H says:

          You can’t just “make them free agents or force them into a draft, they are professional baseball players under contract. The whole posting system is designed to entice Japanese teams to let them out of their contracts early. If they wait the full 9 years of team control out then they become unrestricted free agents.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      Oh fuck no.

      Cano is the number one priority to me. I’d say Kuroda is second, with a third starter next. Kuroda is such a wild card that you keep an extra envelope of money stacked away, just in case.

  11. Brandon says:

    Ellsbury may have had only 9 singers last year but they were all BOMBS.

  12. yankees53 says:

    This is good for Garza’s value. Since Tanaka won’t be the bargain everyone thought he was going to be, Garza will likely demand more dollars as well.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      Yup.

    • CashmanNinja says:

      Especially since Garza won’t demand a draft pick. If he could stay healthy then I’d love to have Garza, but the guy simply cannot stay healthy and sucked with the Rangers after the trade. If we go after any pitcher not named Tanaka then may as well roll the dice with Ubaldo if he could be had for a not so insane contract.

  13. Dan says:

    The Yankees lost $58 million in ticket revenues last year. Revenues would at best stay at this level next year without a big FA splash. $189m is a failure, they’ll lose money because of it. The only way it makes sense to do it is if ARod gets suspended. At least then they won’t compromise the product.

    • forensic says:

      They have already made big FA splashes. The only question is if they were good, smart FA splashes and enough to get them back to where they want to be.

      • Dan says:

        I’m justifying the FA splashes. Who cares if they basically did a one year overpay on Ellsbury (I don’t think anyone would be complaining at 6/$125m). His extra $21m will help them get literally hundreds of millions of dollars over the contract.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

      Even with ARod suspended all year, sticking to $189M will likely still compromise the product.
      As is, without ARod, they have roughly $40M left to spend under $189M, and still need a starting 2B, 3B, DH (at least 2 of those 3, with at least one of the position players ideally being a middle of the order quality bat), 2 top-mid rotation starters, and a good reliever or 2.
      Just re-signing Cano and Kuroda would use up the budget and they’d still have multiple holes to fill, and likely still be short of a playoff team.

      • Dan says:

        This team can miss the playoffs and still make more money though. I’m excited about it right now, and if they re-sign Cano I’ll be really psyched.

        Without Alex, it’s probably north of $40m, and if they trade Ichiro (very reasonable) they’ll have more to play with. They could potentially sign Cano ($23m), 1 starter at the Kuroda/Tanaka price ($13m for Tanaka, $15m for Kuroda), and 1 cheaper starter ($8m). And probably buy a reliever or two and fill out the bench ($10m). That would put them right up against $189m, and it’s absolutely a team that could go to the playoffs. Remember there are two wildcard spots. And all of the teams they’re competing against have holes. Even if they end up with two question marks at SP (like 2 of Phelps, Warren, Nuno, and Pineda instead of 1), they probably have enough to get to the playoffs.

        • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

          It really is only about $40M left, after factoring in signed players, arbitration projections, benefits, and 40-man roster costs. And they’d actually probably want to spend less than that to leave some wiggle room for moves later in the year and potential performance bonuses.
          I don’t think $13M is going to come close to getting Tanaka in the new posting system, if he even is still posted.
          I think they’d probably have to eat some salary to trade Ichiro.
          Bottom line, they could probably sign Cano and 1 good starter. Maybe if they can dump some of Ichiro’s salary they can add a decent middle reliever.
          I think that leaves them with a team that can contend, and has a shot at the playoffs if they get significant contributions from the kid pitchers, but most likely falls short.
          A lot of the ticket revenue lost apparently was from the loss of playoff gates. Just getting to a wild card game doesn’t make up for that.
          I agree the shiny new additions will give a boost to attendance and ratings regardless, but if fans don’t believe the team is a strong championship contender, I don’t think it’ll be that big of a boost.

          • Dan says:

            Are you sure about the $40m to spend? I thought they had $116m locked up, plus $15m in benefits and 40-man, plus $22m for Ellsbury. That puts them at $152m. Enough to sign Cano and a $10m starter (I think they need to pull out of Kuroda at $15m) with A-Rod. If Alex gets suspended the extra $25m and Ichiro is an extra $6.5m, the extra $31.5m could go to a good SP ($10-$15m), a couple of decent relievers (Rays prices–$8m total tops total), and another decent position player and the bench ($6.5m to $13.5m). Yes all of this will be tight (and I’m not sure which players they would get), but it’s doable. Plus they could always trade Gardner for a cheapish SP and add that money elsewhere (I’d rather have a righty power hitter).

            With Ichiro, he was worth 1.1 fWAR last year. 1 win is worth over $5m on the FA market. As a straight salary dump, the Yanks shouldn’t have to eat very much money, if any, to move him.

            If they do that plan (especially with ARod suspended), they’re at least one of the wild card teams.

  14. dkidd says:

    someone help me out:

    won’t the new posting system make it HARDER for small-market teams to compete for japanese players?

  15. Eddard says:

    I’m just overwhelmed with joy at how this offseason is going. The FO knew they had to do something after the Sox won the WS and they sure have responded. And if Robbie goes to the Mariners let him, they’ve done well to replace his production. And I don’t even think they’re close to finished yet.

  16. CashmanNinja says:

    The new posting system is going to suck. It does not play to the Yankees’ advantage of being able to fit him under the salary cap with a huge amount of $$ going to the bidding fee and the contract being an afterthought (~$10 mil AAV). From the looks of it teams that submit a max bid are basically part of a group of exclusive teams that can talk with the player. So if 10 teams bid $20 mil then those are the teams that can sign with him. $20 mil is nothing so I can see just about every team (save for a team like the Marlins) from being aggressive and at least throwing their name out there just in case. I’m wondering if maybe Tanaka will have heard good things from Matsui, Kuroda, and Ichiro and if it would be enough to lure him here since the Yankees are a pretty popular global team. He’ll obviously still get paid, but it makes me wonder if the Yankees will then in turn be willing to pay the $$ it’d take to get him. On the open market Tanaka is going to get at least $15 mil AAV. $12 mil would be fair value, but a team is going to say screw it and offer a few more years just to further entice him. Then another team will figure what’s a few more million and add to the pot. $20 mil for an unproven guy…all of it counting towards the luxury tax…will hurt the Yankees. I wanted them to get under the $189 mil mark before, but I feel so strongly about Tanaka’s potential that yeah…if we had to go over then so be it.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

      I’d imagine Tanaka would likely be the most coveted free agent pitcher and be able to get a $20M+ AAV.
      Not sure the Yankees will do that.
      Definitely not if they’re still clinging to the $189M plan.

      • dkidd says:

        for the sake of sanity, i’m assuming 189 is history. signing ellsbury doesn’t make sense otherwise. the yanks seem high on tanaka, i think they go after him hard

        • CashmanNinja says:

          I agree with this. I understand that they may have A-Rod’s salary burning a hole in their pocket, but if that were the case I think they’d be spending it more wisely. But to sign Ellsbury to that deal when they could have gotten another OF for a lower AAV (like $6-10 mil lower per year — which is huge), then it really does seem like they’re giving up on the whole $189 mil plan. It literally makes no sense to throw the money around like that when we still have a lot more holes to fill — holes that will be rather costly *cough* PITCHING *cough*.

    • BigLoving says:

      “6:04pm: Under the latest proposal, while the maximum posting fee is $20MM, players appear to be free to sign with any team that ties for the highest bid, the Los Angeles Times’ Bill Shaikin tweets. If that’s the case, Yahoo!’s Jeff Passan points out, it will make Tanaka a de facto free agent, and he will likely receive a large contract.”

      From mlbtraderumors. I don’t think this would hurt the Yankees at all considering $189 seems to no longer be a priority.

    • Chris H says:

      What is it you love about Tanaka’s potential? Because honestly I haven’t seen much of him but what I have combined with the reports on his stuff leave me less than impressed. I honestly don’t see much more than back end starter in his future.

  17. perspective says:

    Ticket sales and ratings in the dumper cost this team too much to fiddle around with the luxury tax hit…. its like spending a dime to save a nickel. If those boys are worried about their wallets they’ll finish this offseason right.

  18. BigLoving says:

    I have heard some rumblings that Gardner won’t be traded and he and Ellsbury are being slated to bat in the top of the order. What do you think the projected lineup would be if they sign Cano? I can’t see Gardner and Ellsbury batting anywhere higher then 1 or 2 and Cano would be 3 or 4…..a lot of lefties at the top of the lineup.

    • perspective says:

      Maybe jeter up there against lefties… can’t wait to hear the howling over cappy getting bumped down in the order.

      • forensic says:

        Yeah, I definitely see Jeter being up there with, likely, Gardner dropping toward the bottom (maybe not 9th since he’d still be back-to-back with Ellsbury, but it depends on their other options at that point). I have my doubts, but hopefully Jeter would somewhat understand and take the drop without adding to some fans angst, though we all saw how gracefully Posada took the drop in the order.

        I can’t see Gardner and Ellsbury batting anywhere higher then 1 or 2

        Is there a higher spot in the order than 1 and 2?

        • Chris H says:

          Personally I’d like to see the lineup be Gardner, Ells, Cano, McCann, Teixeira against RHP and Ells, Jeter, Cano, Soriano Teixeira against LHP. You’d be a little vulnerable to a LOOGY in the right handed lineup but the top 4 OBPs against RHP should create a lot of run scoring opportunities.

  19. Pseudoyanks says:

    Am I the only one worried that if Cano walks, Tanaka is not getable due to the new posting system, and every other team in baseball approaches trading with the Yankees the same way they have for the last 10 years or so (demand more than they would from other teams)…then this offseason will be frighteningly reminiscent of the ’81-’82 offseason when King George decided to add Dave Collins (and all that speed) to a team that badly needed pitching. Collins=Ellsbury (figuratively) and Cano walking offsets McCann offense addition.

    • perspective says:

      Why would Tanaka not be “getable”? With extra money from the not signing Robbie scenario it only strengthens their position.

      • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

        He may not even be posted.

        • CashmanNinja says:

          $20 mil is chump change now. Why would a Japanese team lose their best player who is years away from free agency slip away for a mere $20 mil? I’m sure over the years of team control that team will make a lot more than $20 mil thanks to Tanaka being part of their roster. Hell, they were in the Japan Series and a lot of those fans showed up to watch Tanaka since he’s a huge name. $20 mil is peanuts and the whole reason Japanese teams started posting players was because of the intrigue. Matsui and Ichiro made Japan players more enticing, even if they were a big gamble. Darvish solidified it. But what is $20 mil compared to the $52 mil that Yu Darvish netted his former team? Hell…Kei Igawa’s posting fee was $26 mil. Six whole million more than this new limit. Yep…the mystique and chance of a huge pay day is now gone for Japanese teams. It makes no sense for them to allow their best players to be posted until the end of their Japanese career (before they’re set to hit free agency). Thanks MLB for offering a stupid option that really helps nobody and keeps Asian players from jumping to the majors.

        • Tom says:

          Do you know how many years of club control he has? BR has him down for 7 years of stats so do they still gave one more offseason where he can be posted?

          I wonder if this is hitting at what we were discussing above (wait until the offseason before the walk year)

          • forensic says:

            I haven’t seen anything that says he has a committment or contract beyond the 9 years, so I would think they have one more offseason to post (after this one) and then he can just become a normal FA after the 2015 season.

    • Farewell Mo says:

      and every other team in baseball approaches trading with the Yankees the same way they have for the last 10 years or so (demand more than they would from other teams)

      Do you really believe that paranoid crap and if so, do you think it was mandated by Selig or is just a conspiracy among the teams themselves?

      • Pseudoyanks says:

        Hah, you funny. If you are Davey (and you left your slingshot at home) and Goliath, with full pockets, all stars at every position and a gazillion dollar TV contract comes and asks for something in a trade (in a well governed and civilized society where Goliath can’t just take it from you, mind you)…Then you as Davey, ask for the universe for whatever they want. You haven’t noticed this?

        • Farewell Mo says:

          No I haven’t noticed this.

          More likely your perception of what other teams ask of the Yankees is skewed because as a Yankee fan, you naturally overrate their prospects compared to how other teams rate them.

          • Pseudoyanks says:

            I have no idea how other teams rate them. I have been subscribing to Baseball America (an Independent Publication) since 1989. This has been my source for ratings on prospects.

    • dkidd says:

      i remember dave collins had this one outlier year where he basically turned into tim raines

      unfortunately it happened after he left the yankees

  20. MartinRanger says:

    “With the new posting system proposal for Nippon Professional Baseball players, the Rakuten Golden Eagles are “leaning against” posting Masahiro Tanaka this offseason, said Peter Gammons of MLB Network.
    The proposal includes a $20 million limit for posting fees, a number that could convince some owners in the NPB that it’s not worth posting their players, both now and in the future.” via rotoworld and Peter Gammons

    QUELLE SURPRISE

  21. MartinRanger says:

    Seriously though, this is the same kind of ill-conceived ‘fix the game’ bullsh*t that Selig pulls all the time. Posting fees are too high? Put in draconian measures that ensure high-profile Japanese stars go to low-profile MLB teams and piss off NPB and the aforesaid Japanese players all in one go.

    • CashmanNinja says:

      It literally makes NO sense for baseball. It really only keeps Japanese stars from becoming global stars. Look at Ichiro. I bet he wouldn’t be a household name unless he came to the majors. Why? Because Major League Baseball is the best of the best and MLB just shot itself in the foot.

    • MartinRanger says:

      ah, sorry, just saw the news on the negotiation rules. the Yankees are still in with a chance. if they scrap plan 189. which at this point I think they should.

      with the Yankees losing revenue from declining ratings and attendance figures, is 189 really worth is from a financial standpoint?

  22. 42isNotMortal says:

    The funny thing about Cano is he loves the attention, but he doesn’t command it. I can easily see him getting lost in Seattle if the Mariners fail to make a splash out of the gate next year. I’d also set the over/under at 5 for Robbie not hustling out of the box for what would have been a second deck shot at YSIII, hitting the base of the outfield wall and resulting in a single instead.

    Not sure Seattle has much of a chance though beyond a mega-contract. Beltre’s disappearance performance and success before and after SafeCo doesn’t help Seattle’s chances. And I’m not familiar with the area, but I wouldn’t imagine there’s a very large Dominican community, which may be important to Robbie.

    Seattle would be better off going for Choo and Tanaka who both would be closer to S. Korea and Japan respectfully and be easier to market than the lackadaisical Cano.

  23. Chris H says:

    I dislike the idea of commiting long term to two outfielders over 30 but it would be interesting to see Cano walk and the Yankees sign Choo and possibly trade Gardner. The top two spots in the lineup become much better at that point and they could try and turn Gardner and some kids into a middle rotation arm.

    • CashmanNinja says:

      Gardner is pretty good OBP skills though — like Choo. Choo has more power, but Gardner’s defense is superior and it isn’t even really close. I understand if they’d choose Gardner before he got too expensive — plus he’s not exactly young like a prospect, but Choo would be an insane amount more and is older. There would be a slight offensive upgrade, a defensive downgrade, a loss of another draft pick, and a huge hit in the wallet. I like Choo a lot and would have wanted him over Ellsbury (albeit at a cheaper price tag), but I’m not sure if I’d be completely comfortable getting him now. Unless they feel the next free agent class is crappy which it kinda is. Right now we need pitching more than another outfielder and even if Gardner could be used to be part to snag another pitcher I still think it would wind up overpaying for minimal improvement.

      • Chris H says:

        Gardner and Choo’s on base skill aren’t close. Gardner has above average on base ability, Choo is one of the top 3 in baseball in plate discipline and plate selection, in line with Joey Votto. Gardner’s career OBP is .352 but three of his last four healthy seasons (2013, 2011, 2009) have all come in at .345 OBP. Choo on the other hand is a career .389 on base guy, coming off of a .423 season, with a career .309/.411/.521 career slash line against RHP. That makes him one of the most elite in baseball against 3/4th of the league, Gardner’s career slash line against RHP is .273/.354/.386 that upgrade alone qualifies as more than “slight”. They are also not that far away against LHP (.680 OPS for Choo vs.714 for Gardner). Ellsbury/Choo is a much better duo than Gardner/Ellsbury, the real question is do you save enough with the difference in Choo’s and Cano’s contract to sign another starter for the rotation good enough to make it worth losing Robinson.

  24. Tom says:

    So apparently the M’s are trying to make a move for Price (if they can sign Cano) – according to speculation on MLBtraderumors. In which case Jack Z should indeed be fired on the spot.

    Price has two years left – even with Cano they aren’t contending in 2014, and I have a hard time thinking they will be able to add enough pieces to contend in 2015. And then Price is a FA (and SEA has partially gutted the farm for a comp pick)

    They could make a deal contingent on an extension, but then you have a scenario with Cano (25+?), Price (23+?), Felix (goes from 24 to 27mil per;) making ~75mil combined long term. On a team that had a 84 mil payroll the last 2 years?

    Either Seattle’s payroll is about to almost double in the next 3-4 years or Jack Z is indeed going to set fire to the organization before getting fired.

  25. nomo cano says:

    so just to be clear. yanks put out a AAA lineup (a mediocre AAA lineup at that) for all of 2013 in order to get under a salary cap that they are now going to ignore? so that they could overpay for jacoby ellsbury?

    i really don’t know what to say!

  26. nycsportzfan says:

    I just wanted to add that Ellsbury is also a 301BA hitter in the postseason. Thats when Ellsbury becomes a superstar to me. In the postseason when every ex base matters and threats on the base paths are critical, and guys who can “hit” and not just hit for power against crap pitching throughout the season and then stink when good playoff pitching is coming at you night in and night out.

    I kinda see this signing as a Derek Jeter aging signing. Jeter has always been a reliable “hitter” who has a bit of power but certainly not a ton, but can flat out “hit” and get on base for the big boppers, and is a threat to make the big play at any time in the postseason. I think Ellsbury is a must to mesh in with one dimensional power hitters, which we’ve been known to have alot of.

  27. cooolbreez says:

    +
    interesting Tanaka tidbit: This past season,Japanese baseball went to a livelier ball, and his ERA was still under 1.5.

    I am concerned now that Rakuta may not post him as the this new arrangement just cost them $60-$80mm.

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