Sep
12

Joe Torre, bullpen genius

By

Is there really a reason for Joba to pitch two innings in a 4-0 game? 35 pitches a few days before a Boston series? Really, Joe? Was that necessary?

Categories : Asides
  • dan

    and also using edwar the day after throwing 31 pitches. i know he only threw to one batter, but it’d be much better for his arm had he not even gotten up off the bench today. He has a billion guys in the bullpen, if he wants to find another reliable arm in the pen he has to use someone (britton or ohlendorf maybe) in a relatively close game

  • Mike R.

    How many innings would Joba have pitched if the rules WEREN’T in place? The world may never know.

  • dan

    by the way, i emailed Tom Singer (MLB.com) about an article he wrote on manager of the year (below)

    http://tinyurl.com/359lqu

    i basically said that torre’s bullpen usage has been terrible, joba had to be protected from torre, the team has underachieved and has been inconsistent. He responded to my email with, “so we agree.” So MLB.com’s authors apparently are told what opinions to voice in their articles, as opposed to voicing their own.

    • http://SportingGurus.com Adam

      Don’t sound shocked.

  • JP

    C’mmon how can you look at that picture of the Joba off to the right and then just let him rot in the bullpen…. oh shit I think I’m catching whatever Torre has!

    • dan

      he’s not rotting if he pitches only one inning so that he’s available twice vs. the red sox. but because torre used him for 2, he can only pitch once in that series.

      • JP

        I was just play’n… I wouldn’t have brought him in either… If Torre can’t trust anyone else in this bullpen to hold a four run lead then he never will.

        I really think his mind got warped when Rivera could pitch the 7th & 8th inning in almost every single game back in the 90′s. Now he thinks a bullpen is supposed to work that way

  • deadrody

    How about using Edwar for 2 innings yesterday and then, surprise, again tonight. What the hell is Britton on the team for ? Villone ? The man is unreal with his utter inability to use the bullpen in a rational manner.

  • Tano

    give me a frickin’ break people. Joe Torre has been handling major league pitchers, from the dugout or from behind the plate, since before your fathers were born.

    There is no such thing as a strict correlation between how many pitches a young pticher throws and his odds of getting arm trouble. Certainly not when the question is throwing 20 or 35 pitches on some given September evening.

    This “Torre bullpen management” meme has become a complete joke. And it follows the typical rule for such nonsense. Any pitcher who comes under Torre’s care and who at some point develops arm trouble, well Joe will get the blame. Any pitcher who doesn’t will be an iognored data-point.

    Seems like everyone wants to prove how much smarter they are than one of the smartest guys in baseball. I call complete bs.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      This has absolutely nothing to do with arm troubles and everything to do with the Joba Rules. If Torre insists on using his primary weapon in a 4-0 game against the Blue Jays on the eve of a series agains the Red Sox, what’s the point?

      Because of the Rules, Joba, who threw two innings tonight, supposedly can’t pitch until Saturday. Thus, he can go just once against the Red Sox. Thus, the Yanks lost out on the use of their Number One bullpen weapon for two games this weekend.

      It’s not about correlating arm troubles with pitch counts for young pitchers, and all about simple math. So far, Torre hasn’t shown the propensity for that no matter how many more years he’s been handling Major League pitchers.

      • Kyle

        I agree with using Joba for two. This game is very important to win, we can’ throw away good pitching and to be honest I dont fully trust anyone else in that pen with a 4 run lead. I would have been pissed if Villone or Bruney was brought in. I would have been OK with Britton but Torre hates him. Every game is a must win and a game against the sox isnt any more important then one against the Jays at this point. We have to play every game to make sure we win

  • rbizzler

    I agree that the Torre bashing has gotten a bit ridiculous. The guy is damned no matter what he does. It wasn’t that long ago that people were ripping him for not using Edwar. Now he is a clod for using him on back to back days. I would call that progress if I were you.

    As for Joba in the 8th tonight, well, I have to agree that that wasn’t the best move. The only thing that I can think of (pure speculation), is that we are going to see the Joba Rules eased soon.

    Torre has righted the ship and he deserves credit for (at least) that. He has some warts but he is not the anti-christ.

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

    Maybe we’re too harsh on Torre at times, but I would love to hear some justification for using Edwar again and Joba for two. You’ve got a four-run lead against a floundering team and Mariano Rivera in the pen. If Torre won’t go with Britton or Kyle Farnsworth in those situations, what’s the point of having them? For a night, it was odd and indefensible, in my opinion.

    • Travis

      According to Pete Abe, Farnsworth hasn’t been available this series because of a stiff neck.

  • bkight

    I think that winning today is more important than hypothetical match-ups in the next series. If we lost tonight worrying about the Red Sox, what good would that accomplish. Joba hasn’t been used for days and Edwar appears to more than capable of pitching back to back(rubber arm?.)

  • Fogs

    the reason torre used joba was so he could use him twice if need be in the Boston series. Joba rules dictate a mandatory day off today, so now hes fresh for the biggst series of the year. can’t fault joe there.

    • steve (different one)

      wrong. the rules dictate TWO off-days if he pitches 2 innings. now he can only be used once in Boston.

  • Thomas

    Joba hadn’t pitched in 5 days. He needed some work. Plus, I am hoping that he gives up some runs soon and learns how to deal with it now instead of in the playoffs! I am sure that once the playoffs start, the Joba rules will be gone. It would be nice if the other teams don’t think he is coming in and poof, there he is!

    Plus, did you want to see Farns in there???? We need to get to the playoffs first and the tigers are not going away.

  • brxbmrs

    Its the same old “Joe Torre Story” – he shunns a new pitcher until that pitcher proves himself, then he overuses him – maybe we saw Edwar getting ready to join the list of Mo, Gordon, Sturtze, Quantrill, Proctor, Villone.

    Its absolutely hilarious to me that Torre could be described by anyone as “one of the smartest guys in baseball” (if that’s true, man baseball is in trouble). He wasn’t so smart pre 96 when he was a manager with a losing record – guess he was a late bloomer….

    The simple truth is the Yanks payroll is a big reason for the teams record during his tenure – Torre may have real value protecting the simpleton players fragile egos, but as a manager of resources, developer of talent and in game tactician, he’s below average.

    • Count Zero

      QFT

  • Fogs

    joba will be used as needed against boston, whether its once or twice. rumors of the joba rules being relaxed are rather rampant so i would imagine its one day off per appearance before long.

  • Old Goat

    With all that Youkilis business in their last match up, do you really think it makes a lot of sense to subject that kid Joba to the utter hatred of the Red Sox fans?

    I don’t see a problem with using him in the Blue Jays game for two innings. Torre needs to see how he can handle being out there for two innings and see how he does under pressure situations. This is the audition for the post season.

    I love those who always point to the high payroll as the reason for the wins. If that were the case then by that same logic the Yankees should never lose and should win the championship every year.