Oct
26

Yanks looking for something they already had

By

While we had our own brand of excitement at RAB this afternoon, nothing happened in Yankeeland, and it is more and more likely that nothing will happen until next week. Fun times.

Meanwhile, in summarizing up the nothing, Peter Abraham highlighted an interesting quote from the AP by Hank Steinbrenner:

“What we’re looking for is a guy that’s maybe going to be one of the greatest managers, maybe, of all-time, over a period of 10, 20 years, who knows?”

Now without getting into the utter absurdity of such a statement or the argument over whether or not Torre should be managing the Yanks in 2008, doesn’t Steinbrenner realized they just fired a guy who was one of the greatest managers, maybe, of all-time over a period of 12 years? Does he know that these guys don’t grow on trees? Just wondering if anyone’s pointed that out to him.

Categories : Front Office
  • http://riveraveblues.com Mike A.

    I know it’s only been a little over 2 weeks, but Hanky is really bugging the shit out of me. He needs to learn to just shut up; less is more my friend.

    “Where would Joe Torre be without my father.” Yeah, sure. Where would Hank be without the Steinbrenner attached to his name?

  • usty

    Ugh. Hank is starting to annoy me too. He was born on third base but he’s acting like he hit the triple.

    • Jamal G.

      That perfectly summarizes it. Great quote.

      I have been doing some thinking and to tell you the truth all though I love Joe Torre I just don’t think this Yankees team in 2008 is the team that best suits his managerial talents. The players the Yankees had during that incredible World Series dynasty had players who were their own man, knew the game of baseball, knew what it took day in & day out, and just knew what to do. Those were players that Torre could rely on, he did not have to be so hands-on with them he trusted them that they knew what and what not to do. Players like David Cone, David Wells, Roger Clemens, Derek Jeter (yes even at the young ages), Tino Martinez, Paul O’Neill, Joe Girardi, Bernie Williams. He had the guys in the pen like Mike Stanton, Jeff Nelson, and Ramiro Mendoza where he didn’t have to build up confidence and things like that or had the young guys trying to ease their mind.

      The players he has now in Robinson Cano, Melky Cabrera, Chien-Ming Wang, Jason Giambi even, and Bobby Abreu he has to manage those guys day in & day out because their not as mentally tough as the guys in the past were. We’ve seen Cano take more than a few plays off, same with Melky, we know how sensitive Giambi is and how much Abreu’s game is tied in with his mental state at the current moment. For a manager like Joe Torre those guys don’t fit well under his command. He does well with the likes of Jeter, Matsui, Posada, Mariano (then again who wouldn’t), Pettitte, and Johnny Damon. Those are the type of guys Torre command well, those guys that know what to do without anyone even mentioning it, those guys that manage the game by their lonesome.

      For those reasons is why I believe Joe Girardi is the best manager for this club moving forward, a guy that will stay on the young guys cases, a guy that will light a fire under the team’s ass more than once. A guy that has experience managing a big group of young pitchers. Because one big flaw in Torre is that he will burn a guy out (see Scott Proctor and Luis Vizcaino) and with the golden arms in our rotation (Hughes, Joba, IPK) we need a manager who knows how to handle those guys’ arms. With the veteran leadership Girardi would have in that clubhouse he knows he doesnt have to be full throttle all the time like in Florida because he knows Jeter and Posada will handle that clubhouse to a degree and Pettitte would grandfather that rotation and same thing with Mariano for the bullpen.

  • Pete C.

    The fruit doesn’t fall very far from the tree.

  • Steve S

    I think people are looking into Hank’s comments a little too much. One everyone has to get used to this, he has a little of his father’s personality, so he wont shy away from a microphone. Two, he has been relatively honest. And three, I think the context of the quote should be taken in consideration of the constant comparisons to his father. The decision is going to be made carefully and they want someone young who they plan to stick with for an extended period of time. Thats not something that is crazy. And by the way, everyone now is turning on the reality of baseball and succeeding in the playoffs when they are defending Joe and criticizing the Steinbrenners. When everyone was booing Arod last year in the midst of a 290 35 and 110 year, no one in the media said hey the guy is entitled to one off year and Yankee fans should boo Jason Giambi much more than anyone else on this team. And no one thought it was crazy for fans or media to contemplate trading perhaps one of the greatest players because he had a bad eight games against Detroit and Anaheim in separate years. Ill tell you this much, if I am signing those payroll checks, I am the only one entitled to unrealistic expectations. All we like to do is complain, so we find an easy target. Guess what thank god is Hank Steinbrenner and not James Dolan. Stop disecting everything so much and let things play out.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      Guess what thank god is Hank Steinbrenner and not James Dolan.

      I thank god for that every morning.

    • The Scout

      Actually, I think there is a LOT of James Dolan in Steinbrenner the Younger. Wait and see..

      • Steve S

        I think thats as ridiculous as the greatest manager of all time comment. How can two weeks reflect a plethora and years of running two separate franchises in two different sports into the ground.

  • steve (different one)

    wait, you guys think Torre might be the greatest manager of all-time? for real?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      That only took five comments. I was waiting for it :)

      I don’t think Torre is the best managers of all time. In fact, I think his time in New York was probably up and then some. However, if you go based on what Steinbrenner’s looking for – rings and wins – Torre is indeed one of the most successful managers of all time and certainly of the last 20-30 years.

      Hank Steinbrenner thinks they are going to magically land on another Joe Torre-type by interviewing three guys, none of whom are all that impressive (or unimpressive). It ain’t gonna happen.

      • steve (different one)

        sure, i can agree with that.

        but i’d argue that “successful” and “great” are not the same thing, since i am confident almost any major league manager would have managed the 1998-1999 yankees to the title. that’s how good those teams were.

        but he deserves a lot of credit for 1996 and 2000 when the team was not as strong.

        with Torre it’s fairly simple: he got too much credit when they won and he is getting too much blame now for not winning.

        but as far as being a great manager, Francona handed him his ass in the 2004 ALCS. that shouldn’t happen to the “greatest” manager of all time.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

          There is a different between the greatest manager of all time and one of the greatest managers. We shouldn’t lose sight of that either.

        • kris

          In 04, the Yankees ran out of starting pitchers after game 5. Mo blew two games. I don’t know what Joe could have done about any of that. No, I don’t think Joe single-handedly brought home 4 championships. However, Joe did keep the team focused and united every season. Let’s hope Donnie doesn’t follow the footsteps of Willie Randolph.

          • steve (different one)

            Mo did not blow game 5.

            Gordon blew game 5.

            Gordon also pitched the 9th inning of game 3 with an 11 run lead.

            i am not saying one definitely lead to the other, but using Gordon in game 3 was an inexcusable blunder by Torre and there is simply no way anyone can argue otherwise. the Yankees had a 2 man bullpen in 2004 and Torre used up one of them with a 19-8 lead.

  • zack

    Well shit, you could have said the same thing about Joe Torre before he was hired Ben. He was about as unimpressive a candidate as I can imagine when he was hired. I’m sure at the time you would have said “they are not going to magically land on another Buck Showalter.” You’re right, in that they won’t find another Joe T. But thats a good thing, as his time has come and gone. But maybe we’ll magically find the next manager who can take a team that could probably win 90-100 games with ME managing it, and somehow make that coin flip of the playoffs land in our favor.

    On another note, somebody needs to stop Pete Abe from his ranting and raving and somebody needs to blow up his comments thread

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      All valid points, Zack, especially your last note. Those comments are a disaster.

      It’s true; we could have said the same about Torre in 1996. But at the time, no one was predicting him to be the Second Coming of Casey Stengel like Hank Steinbrenner did today. If I’m Hank, I think it’s time I learn how to be mindful of what I say to the media. He is very George-esque in his statements.

    • kris

      With all due respect Zack, if you managed the team this 2007 season, it would have imploded after the first streak of 7 straight losses. You would have panicked and the veterans would have stopped playing for you. You wouldn’t have lasted until the all-star break.

      • zack

        I personally take great offense to that. Whats to say I WOULD panic? How managers in mlb DO panic when their team starts losing? Normally, its the same MO: “we’ve just got to play one game at a time and do what we do and we’ll break out of it and play as we know we can” etc…

        • Mike R.

          Hank Steinbrenner called. He said you’re hired. Congratulations.

          • zack

            I wish. My first move as manager of the Yankees? Derek, get over to 3b…

  • Rich

    He’s looking for a guy that’s maybe going to be one of the greatest managers of all time but he also doesn’t want fans to have high expectations?

    I’ll say this, as long as there’ll be a microphone around it should be interesting.

    I wonder if this how the Angelos boys started out?

    The cool thing is Hank probably thinks he got his position on merit.

    • kris

      I hate Joel Sherman, but he put it best: this team should now be known as the Hankees.

  • Ivan

    Hey Kris:

    Why You Hate Joel Sherman.

  • RAY SAM

    yankees are the greatest baseball team of all time.

  • http://highandtight.blogspot.com Mr. Faded Glory

    “One of the greatest mangers of all-time” doesn’t put Jeff flippin’ Weaver, who hadn’t thrown a pitch in seemingly a year, in during an extra inning game and save Mariano Rivera for a save that never comes.

    “One of the greatest mangers of all-time” doesn’t refuse to bunt on a clearly hobbled Curt Schilling because they “don’t play the game that way” and cost his team the largest choke in ML history.

    I’m really tired of so many of you apologists giving Joe all the credit for the victories and none of the blame for the boneheaded losses.

    Put Mo in instead of Weaver, play the infield back in ’01, and ATTEMPT a bunt or two on 38pitches and you may just have witnessed a Yankee dynasty of SEVEN championships.

    St. Joe lost his halo once he lost Zimmer to pull his in-game puppet strings, anyway.

    • http://riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      Oi. We’ve given Torre plenty of shit for boneheaded moves, but you can’t just assume that putting in Mo instead of Weaver would have resulted in a win. A bunt or two against Schilling isn’t the reason the Yanks blew a 3-0 series lead.

      What about the Torre that had the balls to sit Tino and play Cecil Fielder in the 1996 WS? What about the Torre that had the balls to pull Rivera for Graeme Lloyd? What about the Torre that brought in David Cone to face Mike Piazza even though Coney was beyond toast? If I recall correctly, Torre used Mo for 2 innings in Game 7 of the 2001 WS with a 1-run lead; was that the wrong move? All we hear about is the moves that didn’t work, what about all the ones that did?

      Point is, just because you don’t agree with some of his on-the-field decisions, it doesn’t mean they all automatically result in losses. We’ll see how long it takes for the people bashing him now (I’m lookin’ at you NoMaas) to beg for his return next year.

      Torre will be missed more than many realize.

      • Mike R.

        Mike:

        Moves shouldn’t be judged on results. Just because something works out doesn’t make it right and just because something blows up in your face doesn’t make them wrong. Your examples are all based on results to prove they were the right call.

        Torre still should have had the infield in better position in ’01, he still shoouldn’t have played Weaver and he still should have pulled his players from the field during the attack of the midges. Do we win if he changes those things? No one knows, but it doesn’t matter because they were still the appropriate thing to do. Nobody kills Joe if Mo blows a 2 run lead in the ninth for putting him in there, because it’s the right call.

      • steve (different one)

        What about the Torre that brought in David Cone to face Mike Piazza even though Coney was beyond toast

        by your own words, you are admitting he simply got lucky here.

        in baseball, the best hitters make outs 60-65% of the time. Cone got Piazza to pop out, big deal.

        i don’t think this makes Torre a genius. it was probably a really stupid thing to do considering how awful Cone was that year.

      • steve (different one)

        We’ve given Torre plenty of shit for boneheaded moves, but you can’t just assume that putting in Mo instead of Weaver would have resulted in a win.

        that doesn’t make it any less inexcusable.

  • ed campbell

    I feel it was time for Joe to go I cannot tell you how many times I shut the damn voice to the tv off because Joe left to many pitchers in 1 batter to many I hate the res sox but Francona would of got them out of there at first sign of losing there feel. Now lets drop the Torre bit He was but he is not now manager , Lets get a few signings and open 08 and get back on top.

  • ed campbell

    One more thing I heard the rumor today Torre to the Dodgers? you won’t see Torre in October no more.