Sep
10

Pags: Manny, Yanks a perfect fit

By

Take it away, Mike Paglairulo:

You could argue that Ramirez should return to the Dodgers for 2009 and beyond, given his success in 119 at bats (.403/.500/.748). But we have to face the facts that most players go for the money. That means, for me, that there’s a pretty good chance Ramirez will end up in pinstripes next year. Especially given that there’s going to be extra pressure in New York to win in 2009.

I like Ramirez in New York for two reasons. First, he’s an elite player – one of the game’s best five hitters and future Hall of Famer. Bottom line is that he produces. Bundle Ramirez with Alex Rodriguez, Jorge Posada, Derek Jeter and Hideki Matsui, and you have the game’s best line-up.

Second, Ramirez in New York would be great drama. It would take the Boston – New York rivalry to a whole new level, and I wouldn’t miss a game.

This isn’t the first time we’ve heard analysts suggest that the Yanks pursue Manny Ramirez this off-season. In fact, we wrote about the very same idea in early August, and while Peter Gammons doesn’t believe Manny will be Bronx-bound, this story just won’t go away.

Now, while Pags has been known to be wrong — Kei Igawa, anyone? — his ideas actually make a lot of sense. First, the Yankees will have oodles of money to throw around next year, and while Manny isn’t a spring chicken, it’s nigh impossible to find a better hitter than he will be on the free agent market. He’ll also command fewer years than Mark Teixeira, the only other comparable offensive player.

Meanwhile, the Yankees have to keep the outfield warm when and if Austin Jackson is ready to play. They have Johnny Damon or perhaps Melky — who has yet to play since being recalled last week — for center. They have Xavier Nady for one of the corner slots. And if it’s a choice between overpaying Bobby Abreu or Manny Ramirez for three or four years, Manny is the far superior choice, differences in age notwithstanding.

In the end, this is probably nothing more than idle musings from idle minds attempting to quote-unquote fix the Yankees. But if Manny Ramirez didn’t carry the baggage of being the Manny Ramirez, he would be an obvious target for the Yankees this off-season whether we like to admit it or not.

  • jsbrendog

    did i msis soemthing? is there a prize for collecting the most middle aged defensively challenged players? and now ones with attitude problems?

    dear god, say no to man-ram

    • Rob H.

      Manny may be middle aged but he damn sure doesn’t hit like he’s middle-aged. Age is not a factor when it comes to manny hitting. His defense may not be great but who knows, maybe someone gets traded and he doesn’t have to play the outfield. If he were to have to play the outfield he’d deal with it and make up for his shortcomings with his offense.

      I know his attitude is a big deal with everything that happened. However, he wanted out of Boston. He had enough of Boston and while I don’t agree with how he went about it, he got out of there. He’ll be fine where ever he goes if he gets a good contract that is to his liking. You’ll see his attitude disappear.

      • Whitey14

        Rob H, for the most part you are correct, but as a Sox fan I would caution those that are high on the idea of signing Manny to one thing. He and Pedro had the same issue in Boston, they didn’t like sharing the spotlight. Pedro’s attitude went south after Schilling stole some of his thunder, especially with the bloody sock fiasco. When the Sox flipped Manny and Ortiz in the lineup and he became Ortiz’s protection he was no longer looked at as the team’s best or most important hitter. He may come to town and behave for awhile, but it won’t last. He is, in every sense of the words, a Prima Donna.

        George, if you’re reading this, and you probably are, I don’t care if I spelled that right or used proper grammar.

        Joe/Mike/Ben, I wish you were Red Sox fans providing a blog like this because I think you do a great job. I appreciate your efforts and the cahnce to drop by and opine from time to time.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

          GO BACK TO RUSSIA YOU COMMIE!

    • Curramba

      You’re so right.

    • Pags is in idiot

      Pags “scouting” service recommended Kei Igawa to the Yanks…take what this guy says with a grain of salt.

      He was a horrible player and even worse talent evaluator.

    • new hampsha

      Manny will never be a “Yankee” because he won’t cut his hair! He’s 36 and fading so once again the Yankee’s pay a premimum for someone past their prime, won’t Sox fans love that!

  • Reggie C.

    Signing Manny to a 3 year / 70 Million dollar contract (my figures) is one move that will immediately rejuvenate this horrid Yank offense. Its a move that has to be made. Last night’s run outburst aside, the Yank offense has stalled this past month in crunch time. A-rod should be burning up Cashman’s cell daily with pleas of getting Manny.

    • bklynJT

      I would go after Manny solely for the reason that he doesn’t buckle under pressure like some of our other players. In actuality it seems that he produces above standards in those situations, and we certainly need that to either:
      1. relax the tense attitude that has been surrounding this team or
      2. offset the negative production that we have been getting from our other players in big spots.

    • DonnieBaseballHallOfFameDotCom

      “Signing Manny to a 3 year / 70 Million dollar contract (my figures) is one move that will immediately rejuvenate this horrid Yank offense. Its a move that has to be made. Last night’s run outburst aside, the Yank offense has stalled this past month in crunch time. A-rod should be burning up Cashman’s cell daily with pleas of getting Manny.”

      You have to sign him but only IF you follow these rules:

      Tons of money, short years, tons of incentives
      Knowing that you will be shipping him out of town before the end of the deal
      No dreds
      No watching home runs
      That he knows that he will be THE star of the team (because he will because he can hit good pitching no matter the situation unlike Alex the Purple Lipped Princess)

      CC, Manny, an athletic young CF who can hit 270 with 15 homers knows what base to throw to etc, a bench

      We get that and this team is dynasty bound
      Without that we are going to have trouble for years to come with Boston, Tampa and even possibly the Blue Jays

  • Infamous

    Do you think Manny would be able to play first base or even being willing to play there? Maybe give him a 3 year contract play first and keep it warm until Montero is ready.

    • jsbrendog

      oh god you think he could handle that? i dont even think hed be as good as giambi. at this point if u get man-ram its dh or bust

      • Infamous

        If he could play first like giambi has played, with his bat i would take that in a second

        • Rob H.

          i’d still take him in the outfield. Put him with a centerfielder who has good range, ala damon or even Melky, and he’ll be fine. His offense is always going to cover his defensive lapses.

    • Reggie C.

      Its not a terrible idea if Manny were alittle younger. Of course, if he were alittle younger, he’d probably get a 5/6 year deal. Anyways, he’s a career OF. You replace Abreu with Manny. That’s how it got to go down.

      And the Yanks follow that up by prying KEMP from the Dodgers for Cano. That’d give us an OF of Nady , Kemp, and Manny.

      • Rob H.

        Kemp for Cano is selling low. I think you’d need more than that to take Cano away from the yankees.

    • Curramba

      Have you seen how bad a fielder Manny is or did I miss something?

      • eVizions

        Have you ever seen how good of a hitter Manny is?

  • http://2009 Haggs

    Girardi would bench him against righties.

    I don’t see this happening as long as no one takes Hank (who sometimes has good ideas accidentally, like his father and Scooby Doo) seriously.

    But I’m all for it, for comedy purposes alone it’s worth it.

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

    Manny is exactly the type of player the Yanks don’t need. Another overpaid, over-the-hill, can’t play defense slugger. What makes everyone think he’ll play hard and won’t pull the same shit he did in Boston? Screw that, let someone else pay through the nose for his decline.

    • Reggie C.

      Overpaid?? I dont know understand that. Baseball economics are what they are. Player salaries are what they are. A-rod’s making 27 million this year in year 1 of his new contract. I guess he’s overpaid. I’m not asking Manny to match A-rod’s production. What we’re asking him to do is hit .290 , slug .575, and get on base at a .400 clip.

      Looking at his “decline” this year , what makes you think that Manny won’t hit those numbers?

      • mustang

        That’s just what the Yankees need another DH type.

        • Reggie C.

          Defensively, i’m pretty darn sure that Manny can approximate Abreu’s terrific defensive prowress. I’d rather sign Manny for 3 years than Abreu for 2. I don’t know…maybe that’s just me.

          • mustang

            Maybe I’m wrong, but I thinking Abreu is much better defensively then Manny which is a sad statement in itself.
            This move has Steinbrenner 80′s written all over it.

    • mustang

      THANK YOU… MIKE A. …Totally agree

      Ben, you just finish tell me this:
      “If you’d rather put together a team of free agents who are past their prime and overpaid, as it appears that you’re doing, instead of building a farm system that allows for good youth along with smart free agent signings, you’ll end up with what the Yanks have now: a fourth place team.”

      Manny is 36 and does have good numbers, but they are not going to get better with age.
      You put in cost, baggage, and defense how could they even think about.
      You spend half the day auguring with me against this exact kind of move I can’t believe you went there.

    • http://www.3KidsTix.com Scott from 3 Kids Tickets

      I couldn’t say it ANY better… CLAP CLAP CLAP!

      -Scott

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

      Mike, there’s two things wrong with your statement that “Manny is exactly the type of player the Yanks don’t need. Another overpaid, over-the-hill, can’t play defense slugger.”

      A) Manny is exactly the type of player we do need, namely, a consistently excellent offensive force. By my count, a huge portion of our struggles, both this year and years past, has been our primary offensive producers annually slumping and coming up small in key situations, including the postseason. Manny is a metronome of offensive devastation, and pairing him up with ARod would be probably the most devastating combo since Ruth and Gehrig. He’s exactly what we need.

      B) In order for Manny to be “another” over-the-hill slugger, we’d need to have some over the hill sluggers in the first place. We don’t have any of those… we have over-the-hill FORMER sluggers. Manny can still rake; Giambi/Posada/Matsui/Damon no longer can reliably be counted on to rake.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

        Giambi/Posada/Matsui/Damon no longer can reliably be counted on to rake.

        But who’s to say Manny can be counted on to continue raking?

        What about when he feels like taking his annual 3 week vacation in September? What about defense? You can’t just disregard that.

        Positives: He can really hit

        Negatives: He’s going to be 37 next year. He can’t play defense to save his life. He only plays hard when he wants to. He’ll demand too much money and too many years.

        • eVizions

          Manny starts causing problems when he stays somewhere too long. If we were to get him on a 2 or 3 year deal, he would behave/perform for the entire contract… I would bet my ex-wife’s life on it.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

          Mike, it’s not about guarantees, it’s about probabilities.

          Manny’s peak is so far above Abreu’s or Giambi’s that when he comes down from it with age, he’s still likely going to hit at a good enough clip to outweigh his defensive liabilities, and at that point there will be plenty of room for him at DH in any event.

    • bklynJT

      Except for the fact that Manny hits in the clutch (unless of course he’s taking all the way…)

  • TurnTwo

    personally, i would love manny if i didnt have to play him in LF.

    if he could be the full time DH, id give him 2, 3, 4 years at $20 per. for me, the best right handed hitter of my generation, and he can still hit. period.

    but, with Damon, Matsui, and Posada all on the roster next season, that DH is already accounted for, me thinks.

    hmm.

    imagine Damon (LF), Jeter, ARod, Manny (DH), Teixeira (1B), Nady (RF), Posada (C), Cano, and then a CF?

    ha!! wow. unrealistic, but you could throw Kei Igawa in front of that offense 4 nights a week and with 75% of your games.

  • Mickey Rivers Rules

    Good point. As much might be gained offensively nothing could make up for the potential for indifference and a sour Manny if playing time or DHing ever became an issue. If it did a bad attitude Manny in media-driven NYC might make Dave Kingman, Eddie Murray or Bobby Bonilla seem like Mother Teresa.

  • Rafi

    So it seems that Pudge is suspended for 2 days. Ah, yet ANOTHER reason to move Moose up to his normal rest and let him go tomorrow!

  • radnom

    “But if Manny Ramirez didn’t carry the baggage of being the Manny Ramirez, he would be an obvious target for the Yankees this off-season whether we like to admit it or not.”

    Um no, I disagree. That is exactly the type of player they are moving away from, baggage or not.

    And to everyone throwing out dollars/years, remember that he caused a big stink this year in Boston to essentially be released from the next 2 years at $40 million. You really think he did all that to sign a 3 year deal? Get real.

  • http://www.3KidsTix.com Scott from 3 Kids Tickets

    If we wanted a PUTZ that could hit & play little defense we could have gotten Bar-oid Bonds for pennies….

    -Scott

  • Reggie C.

    I’m not wedded to this idea of signing Manny. If the Yanks landed Mark Teixiera, then his presence in the lineup should bolster A-rod , who’d probably be hitting in front of him. However, what i am advocating is for change.

    Get rid of Cano. Get rid of Melky. Get Matt Kemp. Hold onto Nady and see how he hacks it over a full season.

    • A.D.

      if you trade Robbie Cano it better be for a big time young pitcher

      • Bill

        No it shouldn’t. Cano and Nady are the only regulars in our lineup under the age of 30 and Nady isn’t far off. If you’re going to trade Cano it should be for a big time, young, offensive player.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

          And, if you’re trading Cano for a big-time, young, offensive player it should be for one who can man a premium defensive position as well.

          That’s why the only logical person you can trade Robinson Cano for is… wait for it… Robinson Cano.

          • Count Zero

            YES! Let’s do it!

            We’d be giving up a lot…but sometimes you have to give to get something good in return…

        • Slugger27

          isnt that exactly what cano projects to be?

  • A.D.

    Having aging lineups that can slug it out on paper doesn’t seem to be the best plan, just ask the Yankees & Tigers this year, on top of that, from what we saw of Girardi his year in Miami, he’d probably prefer a quicker lineup that can hit for average and run the bases. Its been successful for the Angels, Twins & D-Rays this year and is probably a better way to go.

    The WS teams during 96-00 weren’t build around redic aging sluggers, but more guys able to to hit for average, run the bases, and some platoon or solid contributors at the bottom of the lineup.

    I’d rather see the yanks get Juan Rivera as a solid righty bat than Manny, not because he’ll have more impact, but because you won’t over pay, and he’ll be productive.

    • A.D.

      I’d rather see a lineup next year of:

      Damon LF
      Jeter SS
      A-Rod 3B
      Matsui DH
      Nady RF
      Cano 2B
      Posada C
      Rivera/Miranda 1B
      Gardner/Melk or someone else a shot like Baldelli/Kotsay CF

      then one full of old mashers, I think the Tex would be a better pick up than Manny (and a better loss of a 1st round pick) then you could slot him in the clean up or 3 hole with A-Rod.

    • Patrick T

      The WS teams were NOT built around an offense that hit for average and run the bases. The WS teams were built around an offense that got on base and hit for power (doubles power as much as HR power.)

      • A.D.

        So Bernie, O’Neill, and Tino, avg around 35 doubles during the championship years, their essential replacements in Damon, Giambi, Matsui, Sheffield and Abreu put up similar double numbers (Giambi when actually healthy)

        In terms of OBP Giambi & Bernie put up over .400 (again healthy Giambi) and the others come in the .370-.380. Which essentially washes out.

        Jeter & Posada’s individual numbers haven’t changed much over this time.

        When it comes down to Avg Giambi’s has been pretty bad, Damon, Abreu, Matsui, Sheff are in the high .280s to mid .290s. Meanwhile Tino was .280 (outside of 2 low years) and O’Neill is .300-.310, Bernie is .300+ at times over .320.

        Basically the Yanks always get credit for working counts, and getting guys on and that’s key, that’s still how the team is built, they still have high OBP guys with power, but they’re getting worse results, some is the luck of the draw and injuries, and I think at least part of it is trying to sign big time mashers with lower BA, walks don’t drive in runs, they only set them up for someone else to.

  • Manimal

    Would Blalock work at first base if all else fails.

    • A.D.

      You could just put Miranda there, the guy can hit righties, just find someone vs lefties

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

        Agreed. Miranda is cheaper version of Blalock.

        • A.D.

          and healthier!

  • Jake K.

    I’m surprised that so many people who advocate building a young pitching staff also insist on putting one of baseball’s worst defenses behind them. Having guys who can catch the ball matters. If we knew Manny’s bat wasn’t going to decline in his age 37, 38, 39 seasons, then maybe you say “screw the defense.” But we don’t know that. Defense is a serious weakness on this team, one that would only be exacerbated by adding Manny. It is it particularly important in the postseason (assuming, you know, that we actually make it).

    • mustang

      We have a winner !!!!!

    • Kyle D.

      Manny’s RZR is higher than Abreu’s this year, FYI.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

      Jake, you make a good point. However, the bad defense argument against adding Manny should be counterbalanced with the fact that many of the bad defenders we currently have botching up the field (Damon, Matsui, Giambi) will all be off the team soon, or at least off the field in a DH capacity. If you add Manny’s offensive firepower in left and Posada’s production behind the plate (or at first), it’s much easier to stomach subpar offensive production from, say CF and 1B (or C), so we can go with defensive standouts there like Melky/Gardner or Molina. And, as the 2010, 2011, and 2012 seasons approach, we may well have a new set of young talent or newly acquired options to mix and match with… Manny could easily end up being surrounded by (or the DH on) a young, athletic, plus-defending Yankee team a year or two from now.

      • Jake K.

        I definitely get what you’re saying. I just hope the Yankee brass begins to put a little more emphasis on defense. It’s not as important as hitting or pitching, but it can’t be ignored altogether. Tampa’s defense is one of the reasons they’re so good. And we could be brutal up the middle next year with Posado, Jetes, Cano and Damon.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

          Agreed. I’m just saying, emphasizing getting younger, faster, more athletic and better defensively is a good thing, and signing Manny Ramirez doesn’t mean that we’re abandoning that strategy, it means that sometimes your strategy has to be flexible and take into account the real-world actualities that present themselves. Manny is a special offensive weapon and adding him may arguably be worth diverting from our strategy (which is sound in and of itself) for this instance.

      • Count Zero

        This is a solid argument IMO.

        If we don’t have to play Damon or Matsui or Abreu in the OF…

        If we knew for sure that Jorge would be able to catch full time in ’09…

        Then it would be a lot easier to take on Manny.

        But the reality is that we are likely stuck with both Damon and Matsui in the lineup, which means one of them has to play in the OF. And Jorge behind the dish is far from a sure thing.

        In a perfect world, you could pay Manny 3x$23MM to DH and it would be money well spent to my mind. He would probably be happier DH-ing too. But we have a less than perfect world, and the reality is that we have too many non-defense-playing guys in our lineup already.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

          Damon and Matsui each have only one year left under contract, and then they’re gone like Keyser Soze. In fact, we can probably deal one of them this offseason if we really want to.
          Giambi is a goner. Posada can move to first.

          It’s not as bleak a picture as it seems.

  • Manimal

    Bobby being Bobby is tolerable. Manny being manny is nerve wrecking.

    • Kyle D.

      The Dodgers aren’t complaining.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

      I’ll trade our nerve-wrecking moments for all the nerves Manny induces in opposing pitchers.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

        If all the drunken frat guys in Bahston got fed up with his act, how will the well-behaved, highly intellectual fans of the New York Baseball Yankees respond to it?

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

          By polishing the rings that he can help us win.

  • ko

    If you want to rebuild the Yankee organization with excellent all around players who are hard-nosed, can hit, hit with power, run and field, then why would you ever consider getting Ramirez? The Yankees declined this year to the point where they need to rebuild so why would you rebuild with schlock? They’re not retooling or don’t need just one piece, a righty power hitter, to put them over the top. They’re the fourth best team in the division and are way behind the three above them in talented young players. Why waste your time and money on this thing?

    • Slugger27

      thank u… a manny-type player is exactly what the organization needs to get away from… the key to rebuilding is to rebuild with YOUNG players, not 36 year old 1-dimensional players

      • Zack

        Manny is the very opposite of 1 dimensional. He hits for power, average, and gets on base at a crazy rate. he is one of the most perfect hitters I have ever seen. Sure, his defense is bad, but its about on par with what we have been watching out there already.

        • Slugger27

          by 1 dimensional i mean he cant hit… but with no defense, speed, base running, and mediocre outfield arm… theres no denying hes the total package at the plate however

          • Slugger27

            ^^CAN hit… typo

      • eVizions

        yeah, but if that 1 dimension is the ability to knock the crap of the ball in any situation, then maybe it isn’t that bad of an idea.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

          If that one dimension is probably more important than all the other dimensions combined, that’s pretty damn compelling.

  • mustang

    Has anyone talked about the effects of having Manny and A-Rod on the same team might do Jamal G.?

    The kid might not be able to even watch the games.

    LOL

  • Kyle D.

    This isn’t the NFL. Defense plays second fiddle to offense in the MLB. Having an overpowering offense is going to more than compensate for a couple extra runs that make it across the plate every few games.

    • jsbrendog

      noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo way

      defense and pitching wins championships. you are not guarnateed to slug it out every night but if you have solid defense you’re guaranteed to not give up cheap runs the majority of the time. a catcher who can throw out runners, a middle infield with range and good dp chemistry and outfielders with plus arms as well as a 3b who can make that scott brosius bare hand play coming in on the grass

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      Theoretically, yes. But a team with a great offense and good defense will be a more devastating.

      Defense affects everything. If your fielders are making less plays, then your pitchers are throwing more pitches and your staff is getting burnt out sooner.

    • eVizions

      I don’t think defense is as big of a liability for the Yanks as people are making it out to be. ARod is definitely a plus defender, Jeter, though he has lost some range, still is a plus defender, Cano has great range and an incredible arm and is still developing defensively… Our outfield is little suspect at times, but still not too shabby.

    • Curramba

      Whose playing 2nd in this grand scheme of yours?

  • Joey H

    if this doesnt ABSOLUTELY contradict our youth movement than i dont know. if we didnt have matsui and posada on our hands, then by all means, DH manny. we allready have 4 clean up hitters on this team. abreu arod matsui and giambi. none of which can lay down a quality bunt, im not sure if its because their ego is too big but this signing would be stupid if made. i doubt they will do it.

    • Kyle D.

      That can be remedied by moving Matsui, though moving him this off-season would likely net little in return.

      • Joey H

        matsui’s problem isnt his production, its his health. he has two horrible knees that arent worthy of manning left field. and that IS the bottom line.

    • Zack

      This team doesn’t have a “”youth movement,” especially when it comes to positional players. The team’s “youth movement” consists of trying to rebuild the minors while having very little patience or time for the “kids” to actually develop. No youth movement involves Sidney Ponson.

      But more to the point, the team simply doesn’t have any “youth” to plug into positional spots. And they won’t for at least another year or two. Manny doesn’t block ANYONE ANYWHERE. After next season, Matsui and Damon will be gone and they will STILL only have Jackson, maybe, as the only plug

      • eVizions

        I couldn’t agree more.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

        “No youth movement involves Sidney Ponson.”

        Right, because acquiring and giving starts to Sidney Ponson was obviously part of Cashman’s master plan to add more young talent to the team, and not a gap-filling last-minute adjustment to deal with a rash of injuries.

        Sidney Ponson was page fucking one of the Cashman Manifesto for Greatness.

        Way to show proper perspective, Zack.

      • Joey H

        but when you are one of the oldest teams in the league, its not good. it would be better to have more than 1 20 year old in the everyday lineup.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

      Of course it doesn’t contradict our youth movement. Are you serious?

      Dude, there’s 8 starting spots on the field, a DH, and 25 men on an ML roster. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM DOES NOT HAVE TO BE OCCUPIED BY A YOUNGSTER. What, the Rays totally contradicted their youth movement when they signed Cliff Floyd, Troy Percival, Dan Wheeler, and Eric Hinske? Calm down. We’re committed to getting younger, more athletic, and better defensively. We also have a lot of old, bad defenders who are all either A) on contracts about to expire in the next two years or B) not remotely as good as Manny Ramirez in any way, shape, or form.

      If you add one aging, subpar defender while you’re eliminating 3 or 4 aging subpar defenders, that means you’re opening up more holes for replacements, and those replacements can certainly be young good defenders. If we signed Manny AND Jim Thome AND Jim Edmonds AND Mike Piazza, sure, you’d have an argument.

      But stop comparing Manny to the aging vets we currently have, because they’re not the same situations.

      • Joey H

        no but when you put matsui damon and manny along with nady you have more people than spots. so you, are wrong. posada will end up at first. and he and matsui will likely split DH duties. he is too old, he doesnt play hard unless he wants money. and sure every spot doesnt have to have a youngster in it but the youngest starter on this team is cano. that is 1 player that is his 20′s with the exception of nady who is 29. it is WRONG. as are you.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

          O-kay, slow it down, buddy. Count with me, here:
          Matsui, Damon, Manny, Nady – 4 players
          DH, CF, LF, RF – 4 spots

          How is that more people than spots? And for the 8 billionth time, Matsui and Damon only have one more year and then they’re gone, free to be replaced by youngsters. All we’re talking about doing is replacing Bobby Abreu (who’s old) with Manny Ramirez (also old). If we don’t sign Manny, we’re going to either replace Abreu with some other non-young OF, or simply retain Abreu. None of this in any way is contrary to our larger youth movement.

          How am I so “wrong”?

          • Joey H

            ok ur gonna put nady in center? that is a horrible idea. the guy isnt known for his fielding. i say, if we didnt have matsui on our hands i would be all for manny as a DH. and just a question, you want posada catching or at first?

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

              No, I’m gonna put Nady in right, Manny left, and Damon in center, and I’m going to live with one more year of horrid OF defense in exchange for having three outfielders who can all OPS north of .800 for the first time since the Clinton administration. And I’m going to have Melky and Gardner as two excellent late-inning defensive replacements, and if either of them learns how to hit I’m going to increase his time and give more days off to Damon and Matsui, and I’m going to give Austin Jackson a shot to earn a late-season callup to replace anybody who struggles or gets hurt.

              And next winter, I’m going to let Matsui and Damon drop off the payroll and move Manny to DH and re-evaluate my OF options with a virtual clean slate.

  • Zack

    This team, without Manny next year, has very little to suggest it will be any better offensively than it is this year. Getting rid of Giambi, Abreu, and Melky clears up a lot of that dead weight. Now, insert Manny and you have exactly 1 “old slugger’ in your lineup. You also have a twosome of Manny and A-Rod, which is just sick.

    However, if you don’t think its prudent because of, say defense or attitude, the Yankees go into next season with 1 source of power on the entire team in A-Rod, who everyone apparently thinks sucks anyways.

    This team desperately needs power. You have your choice: go into 2009 without any and hedging your bets on rebounds and unspectacular minor leaguers, sign Tex for a ton of money and many many years, or sign Manny for a ton of money and not as many years.

    Me, I take option #3, as the other two stink…

    • Jake K.

      I get salivating at the idea of Manny’s bat in our lineup. And he is as close to a perfect hitter as you get. But we wouldn’t be getting the Manny of 28, 31, 35 years old. We’d be getting the Manny of 37, 38, 39. And sometimes the end comes quickly with these guys, it’s not always a gradual, steady decline. Any time you sign someone of Manny’s age to a multi-year deal you’re rolling the dice.

      • Joey H

        and exactly that, rolling the dice, we need to stop. we need to get younger. and i dont mean 23 24 allover i mean 28 27, i would rather get milton bradley. put him in the two hole or 3 hole with his high OBP

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

          Milton Bradley will be 31 next April, and he’s having a career year right now. You’d rather him than a first-ballot Hall of Famer who, even in decline, will be better than anyone else out there? Why?

          • Joey H

            because that 7 year gap in age is absolutely enormous. not to mention manny and his being manny shit. the guy sat out pretty much the entire stretch run in, 2006. the guy is money hungry, go get people who have something to prove. and i didnt say GET milton i said i would rather get milton over manny for age and money reasons. we need to , as an organization to get more nady like players, guys who arent gonna be on the FRONT page of the paper and bring all their baggage to the clubhouse. stop putting together video game lineups and if you want to roll the dice, roll it with younger hungry talent.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

              Perhaps I’m missing your point, but it sounds to me as though you believe Milton Bradley to be a model citizen. That is far from the truth.

              • Joey H

                nono, im just saying i dont like giving manny a 3 year deal that will leave him at 40ish. milton bradley was just the first name that came into my head.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

            Ben, you forgot the following:

            Milton Bradley will be 31 next April, and he’s having a career year right now in a historically fantastic hitting park that’s dramatically inflating his numbers with a home road split OPS swing of about .300 points.

    • A.D.

      desperately needs power is a bit overstated, I don’t feel like they run a bunch of slap hitter out there that opposing pitcher aren’t afraid of giving up a HR to. Nady, A-Rod, Matsui, and a presumably healthy Posada along with Damon having some pop will give you plenty of power threat.

      I disagree in that I like the Tex signing more than Manny, if your spending a lot of money you might as well get a younger, premium defender, that plays a position of current need.

    • Joey H

      ok so… you talk like giambi was extra productive this year.

  • mike pop

    Ive been saying this !!!

  • mike pop

    whetehr a bad move or not becuz on manny being manny it would make the yanks a hell of alot better of a team with arod manny

    • eVizions

      Manny would allow ARod to do his thing and possibly hit .320/50/150. Right now you can pitch around ARod and he’s going to get himself out trying to make something happen. With Manny behind him, you don’t pitch around him.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

        True. Manny MADE David Ortiz.

  • http://YankeefaninHouston John Leach

    Last year the Yanks scored 5.97 runs/game and allowed 4.79 rpg.
    This year they have scored 4.84 rpg and allowed 4.59. The pitching has gotten better but the hitting has dropped off significantly.
    Is this a sign of the times (ped)?
    Boston’s rpg have stayed the same and their pitching has actually allowed more rpg this year, so perhaps not.
    It’s easy to say get rid of the old guys. Who’s going to replace the OPS that Giambi and Abreu have given us this year?

    • eVizions

      Giambi is very replaceable. His OBP means nothing because he clogs the bases. His batting average is horrible and his defense is unspeakably bad. We could replace him with Miranda and it would be an upgrade.

      Abreu has been decent this year, but there are still too many questions – especially his declining bat speed. He is no longer as patient as he was and it’s only going to get worse. I have a feeling his next contract will be a bust no matter where he goes.

      What we need is clutch hitting, period. We won’t need to score 6 runs a game if we come up with timely hits, which we haven’t done at all this year. Manny would definitely help in this area.

      • Patrick T

        What the fuck does clogs the bases mean, Dusty? The object of the game is to score runs. You score runs by getting on base. Who’s he clogging the bases for? His walks don’t let all our great basestealers run? Who are those great basestealers exactly?

        When did Michael Kay get an RAB account? Clogs the bases, clutch hitting, “protection in the lineup” are all at best not telling the whole story and at worse pure myth.

        I don’t advocate resigning Giambi because the Yankees need to get younger, but all those walks Giambi takes are 100% positive, since they give baserunners, extend innings and force opposing pitchers counts up. Clogging the bases is the worst bit of ignorant baseball propaganda.

        • Count Zero

          Thank you for saying it first! The “clogging up the bases” thing just makes me nuts…

      • A.D.

        Clogs the bases doesn’t nullify his OBP, it only means someone faster who gets on at a similar clip would be more valuable.

        And why Miranda is a nice low cost option, he isn’t good defensively, isn’t fast, but probably would hit for higher avg with a lower obp.

  • David Brown

    I cannot say how much I do NOT want Manny Ramirez here. The “Dreadlocks”, not hustling, “Manny being Manny”, his entourage, the whole shebang. Combine that with Arod’s Lindsay Lohan “Confessions of a MILLIONAIRE Drama Queen” act, and you have a formula for disaster.
    I want Sabathia or Tex, and if not, lets rebuild. NO MANNY.

  • http://RiverAve.Blues Joseph M

    Manny would be great and the Yanks should consider it. I would slot him for the DH role, and structure the line up around him. Nady to Right, Matsui left (I’d move Matsui if possible). Fingers crossed hopefully Damon could play first. Sign CC and one other top of the rotation guy and put off judgement day a year or two.

    • Old Ranger

      Nady doesn’t have a RF arm and isn’t fast enough for CF. Who plays CF, Brett? Posada will need to play 1st/DH and maybe catcher (depending on his arm). Also; “put off judgement day a year or two.” is the thing that got us into this mess in the first place, remember?
      We must get more youth, defence and athleticism on this team (not every position). An OF with Nady, Matsui and Gardner is bad news defensively, or worse yet; Nady, Matsui and Johnny…see the balls drop from the sky!
      Pitching (defence) makes up for less power…somewhat…so, CC, Joba, CMW, Phil, and Andy/Moose/Aceves etc., makes our pitching better.
      Manny (except NL) numbers have gone down this year. Giving him a 2 year contract is even to much, unless it is laden with incentives and opt. outs’. His bat WAS great, but will it be so in another year or two?

  • mike pop

    Plus what manny would do against the sox and if he could hit 320 for us and hit 25 30 home runs the sox would be opist !!

  • RollingWave

    I’d be for it as long as the term isn’t ridiculasly long.

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  • Bo

    Manny or Abreu for 3 yrs?

    That even a question?

  • Cin

    I get a kick out of all the Yankee fans who detested Manny’s antics as a Red Sox player, are suddenly drooling over themselves at the thought of landing his services next year.

    Yes, the guy can hit a baseball better than just about anyone else. However, when he reverts to his “Manny being Manny” ways, and he WILL, will all of Red Sox Nation get apologies from Yankee land for the years of ridicule we endured over him? Somehow I doubt it. LOL

  • big bowler

    Manny + cc + hudson – Cano and Hughes for David DeJesus and Greinke -Giambi – Abreu – all free agents + Posada + Wang = new dynasty.