Much ado about Pavano


It’s always amusing when the back page of the Daily News doesn’t match up with the article it’s over-hyping. Today’s tabloid exploitation comes to us courtesy of Carl Pavano.

According to Mark Feinsand, some source feels that Brian Cashman may be interested in Carl Pavano. To the back page editors, this is an opportunity to splash Pavano all over the back pages with some unknown intent. But had these editors actually bothered to read the article, they would have come across a few key passages from Feinsand:

“I’m not ruling anything out,” Cashman said. “We have needs, so we’ll have to go to the marketplace, be it through free agency or through trades, to fill those needs.”

Bringing back Pavano certainly won’t be the big move the Yankees are looking to make this winter, but rather one that could help fill in the back end of the rotation.

That’s really what this is all about. Hardly different from the Sergio Mitre deal, the Yankees would bring back Pavano for one year at a very low base price with some incentives. If it doesn’t work out early, they can cut their losses. If it looks like Pavano might be half-useful, the Yanks could either keep him or trade him to a team in need of pitching. There are only about 29 other clubs that fit that bill.

For his part, Pavano is supposedly interested in returning to the Yanks in an effort to live down his bad reputation. “At the end of the day, his first choice would be to come back to New York,” Tom O’Connell, Pavano’s agent, said to Feinsand. “He feels he has some unfinished business.”

As long as the Yanks aren’t going to consider Pavano one of their first five starters, I certainly wouldn’t be opposed to tossing another arm in the mix come March. One thing is for sure; it would give the Daily News something to overhype every five days and these people something to ignorantly rail against too.

Categories : Hot Stove League


  1. jsbrendog says:

    do it. go on, do it.

  2. Bo says:

    Like there won’t be a team out there that gives Pavano a 2 or 3 yr deal. You know how pitching starved teams are??

    The nationals wouldnt give him a 3 yr deal? How about Texas? Baltimore?

    He won’t need to consider the Yankees. He’s saying this now to sound like a team player. A gamer. Something he isn’t.

  3. Joey H says:

    Hey I mean, Just yesterday we were saying the yankees have a secret formula for guys with TJ.

  4. Chip says:

    If the price is right, you know Cash is going to do it. It’s a win-win for both sides if he does well and if he doesn’t, then at least Scranton has a better pitching staff :). If I remember correctly, he did pitch somewhat well at the end of the season

  5. christopher says:

    for 2 million as a sixth starter – why not

  6. Joseph P. says:

    I vote Subway Sqwakers as the worst blog on the Internet. Well, second worst. We all know what the worst one is.

  7. C.Panella says:

    cmon guys bringing this guy back is idiotic.. He blew 40 mill of our money and had no heart or desire to play what so ever teamates even questioned this guys heart and now you want to bring him back what kind of message is that sending to the fans and even the team I wouldn’t take him back even if he paid the yanks to play

    • Mike A. says:

      what kind of message is that sending to the fans and even the team

      Does signing Pavano really send a worse message to the team/fans than signing Manny? “We don’t care if you fake injuries and take weeks off at time, you can hit and we’ll pay you whatever you want.”

      • Well, since Manny is A.) good and B.) healthy, I’d say that signing Manny gives a better message to the fans than signing Pavano does.

        That being said, I’ve got no problem with us signing either. The “sending a message to the fans” line is bunk. All Yankee fans know the Yankees are constantly trying to win, both now and in the future.

        And stop with the “he blew 40M of our money” crap. You can’t change the past, it was what it was. Let’s not let personal grudges stand in the way of our ballclub doing what’s best for it’s present and future.

        • Slugger27 says:

          true… but u gotta ask is bringing pavano back (albeit for minimal cost) whats best for the yankees present and future?

          4 years ago, they signed a guy that threw in the mid-upper 90s with great command and great stuff… that aint the guy we saw late in the season this year, especially toppin out at 89 mph

          i know he was comin off injury and probably extremely rusty, but he sported a 1.5-1 K/bb ratio with an era approaching 6… with stats like that is he even worth 2 million and a spot on the 40-man?

          i would just as soon give pavanos potential spot to dan giese… who had a 2-1 k/bb ratio with a lower era and better command

          • But, ultimately, Pavano, even at diminished velocity, probably still has better “stuff” than Giese. I don’t hold much hope for either of them being a good pitcher for the next 5 years, but I think Pavano can probably make it through either a season or half a season at a reasonably non-shitty level, before the league figures him out again. And there’s always the chance he catches lightning in a bottle… stranger shit has happened.

            If we can get him cheap and for a year or two, sure, why not. He’s cannon fodder until our younger, better options can stand on their own two feet, and all things considered, he’s better than a lot of the other cannon fodder we’ve thrown up there recently.

            • Bo says:

              The day you start listening to fans is the day you’re joining them.

              You don’t build a team or hire people based on fan reaction.

              I do know this. If they sign Manny, the tv and radio ratings would go even higher.

              it is a business after all.

            • Slugger27 says:

              good point… i just cant help but think aceves, IPK, giese, marquez, and chase wright would all have the same chance for success that pavano would have… and all are making the major league minimum and already on the 40-man roster

              there is the argument that “if its cheap and only a year or 2, why not” … but to me it just seems like with the names i just mentioned we already have a plethora of the “spot starter in case of injury” type guys, all already on the roster, all making less than what it would take to sign pavano

              now if ur argument is that pavano would be more likely to pitch significantly better in a spot starting role than any of those guys, thats a different debate i suppose

    • E-ROC says:

      Run-on sentence.

  8. Brian says:

    Slightly off-topic and utterly speculative, but I wonder if Mussina’s decision and lack of speaking with Cashman is based on a basic request he has already made shortly after the end of the season that hasn’t fully played out, namely that if the Yanks get Sabathia or some other major guys, that he would come back.

    If not–as developing the young guys may be the primary objective–he’s prepared to say goodbye.

  9. Rafi says:

    HOORAY!!! I’ve been saying since late in the season to whoever would listen(basically just my brother) that Pavano would win 12 games next year. I know what you’re thinking and no I’m not crazy. Any takers?

  10. Harry G says:

    The latest from Heyman: Yanks considering signing Orlando Hudson and trading Robbie…

    • radnom says:

      Obviously that is the move they would make if they traded Cano, so obviously they are going to look into how feasible that is just incase the right deal comes along. This isn’t news until they have a hypothetical deal for Cano.

      Although they may sign him for CF? I find that hard to believe…

    • Axl says:

      They won’t trade Cano low. The rest of his years were very productive…after one bad year they aren’t going to trade him while his stock is low. Dumbest idea ever.

      And if we sign Orlando Hudson? Look out! Looks like it’s Tony Womack Part II!!!! Only more injury prone!!!

    • I think you’ve got a typo, there, Harry. It should read:

      “The latest from Heyman: Yanks considering Heyman considering the Yanks signing Orlando Hudson and trading Robbie…”

      • Bo says:

        Hudson is a gold glove winning 2b. How is he Tony Womack in the slightest?

        • Axl says:

          Yeah he was a gold glove winning SECOND BASEMEN. Remember when we put Tony Womack in CF though? Tony Womack part 2 all over again…

          • Bo says:

            They didn’t sign Womack to play CF.

            They moved him because they had no one to play CF and he couldn’t play 2b.

            Hudson is in his prime and if they signed him I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t be signing him to play CF.

            It would be to play Gold Glove 2b.

            Would it really hurt them to say he could play CF so they don’t get raped in a Cano trade?

            • Axl says:

              My assessment was comparing the two in CF…whether one was signed to do one or the other isn’t really relevant…neither are/were the solution.

              While Cano may not have the “clubhouse guy” mentality Orlando has…he is a FAR superior hitter…and while being cocky and nonchalant…he still isn’t half bad at 2B either.

              I don’t think selling Cano low while getting somebody who’s high is a good idea. No. I know a lot of people are Matt Kemp fans…I am too…but there’s just something about Cano…I don’t think he’s worth giving up…plus with all these farm hands coming up from Boston…I don’t think we should trade away ours and head back into the “buying and trading for things” ways…

              All of this is merely my opinion of course…

      • Mike Pop says:

        He means signing O-dog and moving Cano to Center

  11. T-Dizzle says:

    Pavano is terrible. He stole all the yanks money and now they are gonna bring him back. Worst idea ever. Don’t be fooled twice this guy is a loser and doesn’t even break 90 mph anymore. Even Mussina hates him and doesn’t think he tries his hardest. Why do they keep signing these players?

  12. Axl says:

    He was healthy towards the end of the year…and he was still useless. I agree that as long as he’s not a definitive starter…we should look into it…but if he’s going to be in the rotation…I strongly suggest to look elsewhere…if he agrees to a one year deal for cheaps and incentives after we decline his option…I’d consider it…after all…we’re going to need somebody to come in when Joba Chamberlain inevitably gets hurt and can’t start somewhere down the season…

    • Axl says:

      And the answer certainly isn’t Ian Kennedy…

      • Why not? What if Kennedy looks great in the spring, are you going to take a hard-line and say he can’t be our fifth starter?

        What if, after a month and a half of spring training action, our top five starters, in terms of success, are CC, Wang, Joba, Pettitte, and IPK?

        I’m just asking.

        • Bo says:

          Kennedy shouldn’t be relied on for anything next year.

          • I’m not relying on him. I’m asking, what if he “earns” a spot? Some people are so anti-Kennedy now, I think some Yankee fans would bitch and moan if he was our opening day 5th starter, but what if he blows up Puerto Rico, comes in with new focus, and looks dominant in March? If he’s legitimately our 5th best pitcher, would you have a problem giving him another shot out of the gate?

            • Bo says:

              IPK and dominant shouldn’t go together.

              Then again no one dominates useless games like him.

              I’m sure he’ll look great in PR. I’m sure he’ll look good in spring training. But he’s proven hes clueless on the major league level.

              He should have to earn his spot at Scranton and be the third or 4th guy in line at the major league level.

              That is if hes still in pinstripes come March. Would a few months of good pitching at AAA really hurt him?

              • Ugh, nice to see that the bar is high enough.

                Not only can he not make the major league roster with a dominant spring for you, you want him to be the “third or 4th guy in line at the major league level”.

                Is there anything IPK can do to make you not hate him, out of curiosity?

                Here’s a fun game: do this, you’ll like it. Go back to the 2006 June draft, and look at all the shitty, shitty players taken after Ian Kennedy. Don’t just stop at the first round, go through like the first six or seven rounds.


                Besides Joba Chamberlain, there’s probably three or four guys in the next 150 picks that you’d even consider dealing IPK for, straight up. Remember that at the age of 23 with two years and change under his professional belt, he’s already made it to the majors and pitched 58.7 big league innings, which is about 58.7 innings more than 99.99% of his draft class. IPK is WAY AHEAD of the curve, and yet we shit on him left and right.

                • Bo says:

                  How about he actually shows he deserves the job of being next in at AAA before you give it to him based on glowing scouts reports from 2006?

                  Hows that?

                  The sense of entitlement is hilarious

                • The hypothetical that I gave you was prefaced on him “actually shows he deserves the job of being next in at AAA”.

                  In fact, it was prefaced on him “actually shows he deserves the job of being in the majors”.

                  You still said no.

                  My sense of entitlement is hilarious? Your sense of anti-Kennedy hatred is puzzlingly self-destructive.

                  And I never mentioned any scouting reports from 2006. I mentioned, when you look at the 2006 draft NOW, today, clear-eyed and sober 2 years later, it STILL looks like IPK was a great pick for us, because even with his huge struggles at the big league level, he’s still a FAR, FAR better pitching prospect (or prospet, period) than most if not all of the players taken after him. He’s already made it to the majors. Because he’s GOOD. Almost nobody taken behind him has. Because they’re not as good as he is.

        • Axl says:

          Ian Kennedy is the right handed clone of Kei Igawa. Why do we need two of these?? Mike Mussina should have helped Kennedy with his locating…or maybe he can this year. Other than that…I don’t use Spring Training as anything…we already know Kennedy can pitch well in AAA…he’s proved it to the point where he tricks us into bringing him up again and again and he does worse and worse in the majors. Until he proves himself in the majors…nothing will change my mind.

          • So, unless he proves it in the majors, he doesn’t deserve a spot in the majors, so all he has to do to earn a callup is to already be called up.

            Did I sum that up effectively?

            [rolls eyes]

            • Bo says:

              He doesnt deserve a spot til he succeeds and dominates at the AAA level since he utterly TANKED at the major league level and certainly wasn’t mature enough to handle it.

              …rolls eyes at the Pres of the IPK Fan Club….

              Whats wrong with him eanring it thru performance???

              • There’s nothing wrong with him earning it through performance. I asked you if a great performance from IPK would earn him a spot, and you said no, you still wanted to keep him in Scranton and put him third or fourth in line.

                That would be putting him behind other guys whose performance has earned them LESS of a shot at the big league level.

                • Bo says:

                  Read my answer up there about what i think about his spring, PR, etc stints.

                  He needs a full year at AAA. He needs to learn how to pitch.

                  Nothing should be given to him here. he should EARN his promotion at AAA thru good performance.

                  And we should have 3 guys ahead of him in the pecking order if Cashman does his job right.

              • radnom says:

                Because you guys are making impossible conditions for him to “earn it”.

                Does he have to show some success in the major leagues of some alternate dimension to get called up, if apparently dominating AAA wouldn’t cut it for you?

            • Axl says:

              Yes. So in short…he SHOULDN’T BE CALLED UP.

              No need to roll your eyes for logic and reasoning. He throws in the high 80′s…he’s been tanked around constantly…he’s been sent back and forth proving effective everywhere BUT the majors…so what is your recommendation?? Watch his succeed like he always does in the minors and other useless places and call him up over and over every single time he does well down there…only to see him get shelled again and again??? Sending him down again…calling him up….over and over?? Is that the solution?!?!?

              [eyes roll back into head]

              • Yeah, we should keep bringing him up to the majors until he sticks, because THAT’S THE ONLY WAY YOUNG PLAYERS MAKE IT IN THE MAJORS.

                Brett Gardner looked like asscheeks when he went down, and people wrote his obituary. Then he came back up and he looked much better.

                We have to keep giving IPK chances. Not doing so is pointless.

                • Bo says:

                  Why should we keep giving him chances?

                  Because he was a 1st round pick?

                  Because scouts said he was good 2 yrs ago?

                  You Earn it in the big leagues.

                  You perform at AAA.

                  The handing it to young kids thing doesnt work too well.

                  IE Hughes, Kennedy, Melky, etc in 2008

                • Mike Pop says:

                  fuck it trade all 3 for Holliday

                • Axl says:

                  If this were earlier this decade we could afford to take our time and gamble on Kennedy…we don’t have that luxery anymore. Every other team out there has gotten better while we’ve gotten older…so we don’t have the luxery we might have had before where we could dick around while staying high and mighty in first place. We tried to gamble this year having 2 under 23 year olds anchor the greatest franchise in the history of sports…that worked out great. WE CAN’T DO THIS ANYMORE. Wee should have either sold him high before last year…and we didn’t…so now we have to sell him low. If he’s lucky he’ll be another Brad Radke….but my guess is that he won’t be. At least on another team they can do what you’ve been crying about…send him down and up over and over and toy with him until he’s effective enough to stay. If we do it, we won’t make the playoffs again.

                  I don’t see what’s so hard to understand about this…

                • Slugger27 says:

                  “the handing it to young kids thing doesnt work too well”

                  in that case, we got extremely lucky with our starting shortstop for the 1996 season… and handing the closer role to Mo after wetteland left… and handing the 7th and 8th inning gig to joba in 2007… and handing the 2b job to cano in the middle of 05

                • Why should we keep giving him chances?

                  Because he’s good.

                  Because he was a 1st round pick?

                  No, we should keep giving him chances because he’s good. He was a first round pick because he’s good. They’re correlated, not causal.

                  Because scouts said he was good 2 yrs ago?

                  No, because scouts NOW say that he is good, just like scouts said it then. Because he is, in fact, good.

                  You Earn it in the big leagues.

                  Yes, and you make it to the big leagues by dominating the minor leagues. And you do that because you’re good.

                  You perform at AAA.

                  Which Kennedy has done. Because he’s good.

                  The handing it to young kids thing doesnt work too well.

                  Yes, because every choice is fraught with danger since failure is always a possibility. However, there’s no way for young kids to become competent major leaguers other than for it to be handed with them, repeatedly, so they may succeed or fail. So your statement, while grammatically correct, has no real meaning because it proscribes a remedy that is unworkable in the natural limitations of the space-time continuum.

                  IE Hughes, Kennedy, Melky, etc in 2008

                  Three examples in one year versus literally hundreds of thousands of counterexamples over the 150 year history of baseball. I can just as easily say i.e. Joba 2008, Cano, Wang 2005. By your standards, we would never promote anybody who didn’t immediately throw a no-hitter in his first big league appearance.

                • steve (different one) says:

                  IE Hughes, Kennedy, Melky, etc in 2008

                  Melky Cabrera was the starting CFer for the best offense in baseball in 2007. he was 22 years old.

                  from May 1 through September 1, Melky hit .315/.369/.472.

                  in other words, for FOUR months, Melky was an All-Star level CFer. he tired at the end of the year, but at 22 years old, it was perfectly reasonable to think he would improve upon his 2007 season.

                  i realize that Melky is not very popular on this site, and he was pretty awful this year. but that’s not the point.

                  the point is, based on his 2007 season, there was good reason to think Melky could hold the CF job in 2008. in 2009? not really. which is why he won’t be in CF on opening day 2009.

                • Axl says:

                  So you’re saying it was a mere coincidence that all our young players just all did absolutely horrible at the same time?? It was just this weird random fluke?!?

                  Interesting…yet irrational…

                • Axl says:

                  Maybe our scouts just aren’t doing as good as we think…our best draft pick in the past few years was one of our latest picks…Joba. Everybody else is overhyped thus far…not saying it’s definite…but so far it’s looking that way.

                • Tim says:

                  Wow, this exchange is nuts. Look, this is how it is going to be. IPK will most likely pitch for the Yanks some time in 2009 or he will be traded because he has value. The fact that some fans don’t like the guy will not impact this at all. The same can be said for Hughs.

                • Mike Pop says:

                  How do you bold or italic ?

                • Jamal G. says:

                  Everybody else is overhyped thus far…not saying it’s definite…but so far it’s looking that way.

                  Really? Zach McCallister, Austin Romine, Mark Melancon, Dellin Betances and David Robertson all say hi.

                  Lastly, Ian Kennedy has had three stints – one successful – in the Major Leagues, relax already.

                • B.George says:

                  everyone who says these guys are bust right now have no idea what they are talking about. Perfect example is Andy Sonnistine of the Rays. The guy had an over 5 ERA last year and was a respectable pitcher for the rays this season and can only get better. Name me one pitcher who came into the leage and dominated right away and it is very minimial. IF you dont have an era under 2 and have 300 K’s when you enter the league you are a bust in New York

  13. Ron says:

    According to Cot’s Contracts http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.c.....0&y=0, the Yanks have a $13 mil option on Pavano for 2009. Short of picking that up, how is Pavano an option for ’09? He will certainly get at least a 2 year offer elsewhere.

    • Slugger27 says:

      they wont pick up the option…. pavano isnt assured a 2 year deal (getting one would be lucky) … and his agent said he has interest in coming back for whatever small amount that is worth

      all that said, i still dont see it happening, nor am i an advocate for it

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