Nov
25

Open Thread: Dandy Andy the Dodger?

By

Via MLBTR, free agent southpaw Andy Pettitte has had numerous conversations with ex-manager Joe Torre recently, reportedly about the possibility of joining the Dodgers’ rotation. Pettitte’s already said that he wants to return to the Yanks in 2009, but speculation is that he may be feeling slighted by the way the Yanks are slowly approaching a potential return.

I remember the feeling back in 2004, that “dude, Andy’s not going anywhere, chill out” attitude. It was a bit surprising to see Pettitte head home to Houston, and it wasn’t until he was gone that you realized just how important he was. Sure, he put up a 6.23 ERA in the second half and turned opposing hitters into Raul Ibanez thanks to a .835 OPS against, but he’s still valuable as a rotation stalwart because of his supreme durability and fearlessness.

Regardless of who the Yanks sign this offseason, Pettitte’s return is important for more reasons than we may understand. He brings a veteran presence to the back of the rotation, he’s a lock for 200+ league average or better innings, and there’s no adjustment period. Work it out, I’m sure he’d be cool taking a little pay cut from the $16M he’s earned the past two years, say $12M or so. Don’t let him leave again; as we learned back in ’04 the only guy that can replace Andy is … Andy.

Here’s your open thread for the evening. Talk Pettitte, LeBron at the Garden, whatever. Just play nice.

Update (7:15pm): Before anyone asks, Pettitte is a Type-A free agent, so if he did head to SoCal the Yanks would get the Dodgers first round pick (#17 overall, the second best pick they could possibly get) and a sandwich rounder.

Categories : Open Thread
  • mustang

    Damn, I could not agree with you more about Andy.
    DEAD ON !!!!!!!!!

    • Ivan

      I’ll take Andy over Lowe right now for just one season.

      • mustang

        I second that.

      • Mike Pop

        Ill take Andy over Lowe for a 2 year deal

  • http://liberalmusings.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

    My lucky bastard friend met LeBron tonight. Arrghh!

  • Mike Pop

    Ya we cant let him leave.. I love him and his big schnoz

  • Bill O

    Re-signing Andy should’ve been a no brainer from the day he said he wanted back. There’s really no reason to wait on this. Make him an offer don’t wait on this.

  • Scott of 3 Kids Tickets

    I was saying that the last time everyone was complaining about $16 mil. Who cares how much the Yankees pay people. They can’t raise your ticket prices mid season…lol

    Andy was missed before. Give him the same chance you gave Moose to come back and prove himself a winner. Let him go out a Yankee. He deserves it.

    -Scott

  • Mike Pop

    If your the mets do you give up Heilman and Feliciano for Huston Street ? I would simply because Heilman doesnt want to be there because he isnt starting and they wont start him plus Feliciano is alright and all but Id give up both for Huston… Maybe go out and sign Beimel or Arthur Rhodes to replace Feliciano.. Then still bring in one of Fuentes/K-Rod/Wood

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      You could probably get Colorado to throw in a mid-level prospect too. No one flashy.

      Street > Heilman, and Feliciano is easily replaced by Arthur Rhodes or Joe Beimel

      • Mike Pop

        Cuz they (Mets) declined to do that.. I was a little shocked to be honest

    • Ivan

      Persoanlly I would just sign a closer like Wood or Fuentes and just keep Heilman or Feliciano. Bullpens are so wierd that I can see Heilman having a bounce back season. Persoanlly, I think Heilman has a very good arm and really should be in the bullpen cuz he doesn’t have the repretoire to be a starter. I can see Heilman having a good season for the mets.

      • Mike Pop

        Idk if a guy is saying start me or trade me and you have no intention of starting him I think its best off you trade him

        • Steve H

          You tell him to shut his damn mouth and play, or at least shut his mouth so he doesn’t kill his own trade value. He’s Aaron freaking Heilman, I don’t think his words carry too much weight.

      • A.D.

        If I’m Minaya I take that trade… your team is built to win now, and you issue is the bullpen, sign a big free agent pen arm & trade for Street.. bam you’ve sured that up.

    • BUCK FOSTON

      mets…wtf…go to flushing blues…

  • ko

    The Orioles are appearing a lot closer in the rear view mirror.

    • steve (different one)

      OH NOES!!1!!!

    • Accent Shallow

      They are? How?

      Even with Wieters likely making an appearance, they still don’t have the pitching.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

        They have several very good pitching prospects on the way… they’re not as far away as it may seem. They could make a Tampa Rays-like burst back to relevance with a few savvy free agent acquisitions and a year or two of seasoning.

        • Accent Shallow

          Tillman looks pretty impressive, but he’s at least a year away. I don’t think Matusz has even pitched in the minors yet, other than the AzFL. Everyone else is even further away.

          Sure, we could see Tillman this year, but how likely is it he makes an impact?

          I read that comment as “look out for the Orioles in ’09″, not “look out, the Orioles’ system is improving.” If it’s the latter, then I can’t disagree there too much. The former, I take issue with, mainly due to the lack of pitching. (Of course, Guthrie could improve, Daniel Cabrera could finally figure shit out, and Tillman could make the impact that Hughes failed to make in ’07. Then we might be in trouble.)

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

            The O’s have definitely made some improvement though. Tillman, Matusz and Arrieta could at least debut in 2009, but they won’t have an impact until 2011, 2010 at the absolute earliest.

            The real question is this: does any team in baseball have a better core of three young position players than the O’s with Jones, Markakis and Wieters? I say no.

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

              Plus, I still think the O’s buy at least one big ticket FA this year… Tex? Burnett? Dunn? Dunno, but that core’s gonna get better.

  • Matt M.

    that draft pick combo does sound enticing…but we need pettitte if we want to have some semblance of depth. if we werent moving into a new stadium and werent the yankees. the wise thing to do would be to let him walk, deal with a rotation patched with youngsters and take our lickings for the year while setting ourselves up for the future.

    but thats not a reality. we need pettitte to be our reliable man preventing our acquisition of the ponsons of the world

  • Jake K.

    I have no doubt that Andy could help the Yankees this year. But, given the age of this club and the draft picks we are likely to lose by signing other free agents, I wouldn’t be crushed if we wound up with the Dodgers’ picks instead.

  • AndrewYF

    The last time Andy left, the Yankees got Phil Hughes, and Andy got injured and pitched 83 innings.

    • Steve H

      But Phil’s a bust, haven’t you heard?

    • Jake K.

      I’d sign up for that again.

  • Chris

    Of course, if the Dodgers sign a higher rated type-A, then we don’t get their first round pick.

  • Ivan

    I hope LeBron score like 50/10/10 and the Knicks win by 1pt.

    • Mike Pop

      I hope LEbron scores 100 one night

  • Ivan

    Come on Robinson, how you gonna miss that dunk.

  • leo

    Oh God it’s like the 2003 offseason again. :(

    • steve (different one)

      except Andy is somehow 5 years older…

      • Steve H

        and a certain report has added some baggage

  • LeftyLarry

    Andy will probably bounce back next year and have a solid season.He was under a lot of pressure from the Steroids deal with Clemens and himself and clearly was not in top shape when he came in last year, I think that hurt him in the second half.
    All that being said, I’d rather have 2 draft picks and see if we could trade some guys using some of the prospects who are probably over rated.
    Wonder if a Scot Kazmir could be had by trade.
    They will have money problems pretty soon as will almost EVERY team in this recession.
    I’d rather load up on draft picks and trade for some solid starters using guys who are probably over rated like Austin Jackson, Kennedy, maybe Hughes, Cervelli and some of the lower level studs who don’t really have positions.
    You get zero when Andy retires next season but the 2 picks could replace giving up 2-3 solid prospects almost ready but not really needed.
    Then you have a starting pitcher and the farm system is still strong if you pick smart for the future and Yanks will have the Bucks and a good argument to sign kids afraid the dynamics might change financially during this depression.

    • steve (different one)

      They will have money problems pretty soon as will almost EVERY team in this recession.
      I’d rather load up on draft picks and trade for some solid starters using guys who are probably over rated like Austin Jackson, Kennedy, maybe Hughes, Cervelli and some of the lower level studs who don’t really have positions.

      good call. if a team is going to have money problems, they should definitely trade all of their cheap, young players.

      • LeftyLarry

        Not Yankees, , other teams in smaller markets.
        You miss the point.

        • A.D.

          Kazmir is signed below what he could get on the market until 2012… and the Rays are a contender, he’s going no where.

          Rays would wait to potentially leverage him if Crawford & Pena are gone after 2010, and thus they had a need. Plus then they’d probably have Wade & Hellickson ready

        • steve (different one)

          i was responding to this:

          “They will have money problems pretty soon as will almost EVERY team in this recession.”

          did you mean Tampa? my bad.

    • Mike Pop

      Lol Scott Kazmir is probably available…

      • http://everythingbaseball.wordpress.com Aaron

        If only Zambrano was still under contract.

      • Eric

        I recently read an article that actually gave a lot of good reasons for the Rays dealing Kaz.

  • A.D.

    Basically as long as Andy pitches next season its a win, either a nice 1st roung draft pick OR a solid starter…just don’t retire!

    • leo

      they don’t necessarily keep the pick, if you sign type a free agents your compensation picks from lost players go to the other teams.

    • leo

      er hit post comment too soon–i meant the picks start going to other teams, so instead of a second round pick someone else gets that pick for pettitte or abreu if you sign a second type a and so on.

  • A.D.

    Well this is too bad:

    Royals outfielder David DeJesus also interests the Cubs, but the source has the impression Dayton Moore would have to be overwhelmed to trade him. There seems a good chance DeJesus stays put this winter

    • Steve H

      I’m fine with that on the hope that we don’t overwhelm Moore, Dejesus just isn’t that good.

      • A.D.

        Yes, overwhelming Moore would be a mistake

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          All the buzz seems to say that Moore never envisioned the Crisp acquisition as a precursor to a DeJesus trade, but rather as a precursor to a Teahen trade.

          Which makes sense. Teahen is a poor fielder, he’s basically a 1B playing out of position in the outfield. And, since the Royals have cornered the market on first basemen just like the Dukes did with frozen concentrated orange juice, lord knows they have no room to move Teahen’s bat back to 1B/DH.

          Teahen can be had for cheap. DeJesus can only be had for a good return. That’s the exact opposite of what we’re interested in, which means we should drop all the Royals trade speculation/scenarios.

          • A.D.

            Yup… and I doubt KC feels the need to play Gathright, so as long as they move Teahan they’re all good.

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

              I’ll be surprised if the Royals opening day OF isn’t DeJesus-Crisp-Maier.

  • Trevor

    Please, I would be more then glad to take the 17th pick. You know if that happened the Yankees have the potential to have 4 first round picks.

    Abreu- sounds like he’s headed to the Cubs.
    Gerrit Cole- compensation for not signing him
    Yankees- this is probably unlikely being I’m sure the Yankees will sign a type A FA and have their first rounder taken away. But if they some how don’t…
    Pettitte- Dodgers?

    • A.D.

      If only Moose had signed elsewhere instead of retirement

      • Mike Pop

        You guys are really overvaluing draft picks… Its not like we have one in the top 10.. These guys can be great but more likely than not your not going to get many guys who can pottentially help your MLB squad.. But I guess the more picks you got the better chance you got to get our next Pettite

        • A.D.

          Yes, obviously draft picks are no sure things, thats obvious, I’d rather have Moose back, but if he’s not coming back then I’d rather have him play in the NL or something and get the picks. Basically

          Moose on the Yanks > Moose Elsewhere > Retirement

          Pettitte on the Yanks > Pettitte Elsewhere > Retirement

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            Agreed.

            Giving old, possibly shitty Andy Pettitte a one year contract >>>> giving slightly less young, possibly equally shitty A.J. Burnett a five year contract + two draft picks

  • YankCrank20

    Draft picks are nice guys, they really are. But you have no clue if they are going to work out and be major leaguers. We know what Andy can do, we need his 200 innings next year and we will already have a number of picks. I’m surprised to see so many Yankee fans preferring Andy to go away just so we can get another draft pick.

    • A.D.

      I don’t think they’re preferring, they’re just taking the silver lining

    • Jake K.

      No, most draft picks don’t pan out. But free agency is no guarantee either. A team can’t be successful over the long term without developing its own players. Last year’s draft was not a good one for us. A big draft haul this year would do the team’s long-term future a lot of good.

    • steve (different one)

      We know what Andy can do,

      isn’t this part of the problem? we kindof DON’T know what he will do next year.

      that said, i think they should bring him back unless they are 100% sure they are getting Sabathia AND another FA pitcher.

      i think i could live with Sabathia, Burnlowesheets, Wang, Joba, Hughes + the 17th pick in the draft.

      but that is getting greedy perhaps. sign Pettitte.

  • http://www.bronxbaseballdaily.com Rob Abruzzese

    This is really tough to hear. I think that it might not be a bad thing to get draft picks for him. They’re going to lose draft picks if they sign Sabathia or some other big name starter. I thought they could get picks for Mussina, but he retired. They might get some for Abreu and probably won’t get anything for Giambi or Pudge.

    • steve (different one)

      they will almost certainly get a sandwich pick for Pudge. but yeah, nothing for Giambi.

  • Trevor

    Draft picks put your farm system together. Without them you have no system. Sure there’s International FA but that’s not really something you rely on to build up your system. The primary source of building a system is the draft.
    As far picks not working out. Well of course the whole thing is a crap-shoot. but that doesn’t mean you should have a ‘i don’t give a damn about draft picks’ attitude. Also scouting plays a big role too in selecting the right prospect.
    The more picks you have the better chances you have of someone working out.
    I wouldn’t be so quick to poo poo draft picks.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      We’re not saying draft picks aren’t important. What we’re saying is, choosing a draft pick over Andy Pettitte is a bit much.

      We’re not talking about a Pudge here, a guy who has no shot of helping us in 2009 because he’s not better than any other alternative option and he’s not a position of massive, critical, immediate need for us.

      • leo

        a draft pick they might not even keep depending on how the free agent market goes, at that.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          Leo, you don’t lose the picks you get from another team signing one of your Type A or Type B free agents.

          The only picks the Yankees can lose are the #26 picks in each round. No pick received by compensation can be taken away.

  • BigBlueAL

    Why do I get this feeling that this is goin to be one helluva looooong off-season for the Yankees?? I hope Im wrong, and lord knows its waaay to early for pessimism, but still it seems like if we dont somehow sign CC we will wind up wasting money on pitchers we shouldnt like we did in the winter of 2004 with Pavano and Wright plus trading for the Big Unit.

    Obviously I hope Im wrong, but if they dont sign CC or therefore Tex to at least improve the offense dramatically if we cant improve the rotation with CC, this isnt going to be a very productive off-season. And NO getting extra stupid 1st-round picks wont make it any better….

    • steve (different one)

      there is a huge difference between Wright and Burnett/Lowe/Sheets.

      Wright was a bad pitcher and everyone knew he would suck the day he signed. Burnett/Lowe/Sheets are GOOD pitchers.

      they may want too much money, but they are still good pitchers. Wright was never going to be a good signing, ever.

      • A.D.

        almost as crazy is why the Orioles traded for him & gave up a serviceable ML reliever

        • BigBlueAL

          Calling Chris Britton serviceable is the best compliment he has ever received.

          • steve (different one)

            maybe “Room Service”able

            hiii-yooo!!!

    • Steve

      Al, its November. Don’t jump off any bridges just yet, buddy.

      If we were to sign Sheets (who I prefer over Lowe/Burnett) swing a deal for Peavy (who’s price is dropping every day) and go sign Tex, would you really be all that upset?

      Peavy
      Wang
      Sheets
      Joba
      Aceves/Hughes

      Even as a Plan C, that’s still a better and deeper than the Red Sox rotation of Beckett-Dice K-Lester-Masterson-Wakefield is.

      • BigBlueAL

        Sorry, watching the Knicks game tonight has gotten me in a depressed/frustrated mood….

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          Just remember that these two seasons don’t mean anything… the savior is coming… every loss this year just gives us more lottery balls to leap closer towards the top of the 2009 draft…

          • BigBlueAL

            Oh I know/understand. Still tough to watch though.

  • ortforshort

    The draft picks will come in handy when they finally reach the majors in five, six years – they’ll help pull us out of the cellar where we’ll have been for several years. But the good news will be that the payroll will be under 100 million and no long term contracts on the books.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      A word to all people on this board:

      If you’re going to attempt sarcastic humor, a good tip is to actually be so over the top that it’s actually funny.

      Otherwise, people are going to take you seriously. Which i kinda still am.

      • steve (different one)

        he’s definitely serious.

  • Joseph M

    Brian better watch himself here, the Yanks are no cinch to get CC, and what happens if while chasing he loses Andy and CC signs somewhere else. Does anyone want to see the Yanks have to humble themselves and give AJ a 5 year deal.

  • A.D.

    Gotta wonder if the asking price for Street is Heilmann and Feliciano, why more teams wouldn’t be knocking at the door… Rays, Angels, Cards, Indians, Rangers, Brewers could all use a closer

  • Trevor

    If there’s no Sabathia the Yankees are going to go in a different direction. and not for the better imo.

    • BigBlueAL

      If not signing CC means signing Tex than that is OK. If not signing CC means overspending to sign Burnett/Lowe and NOT improve the offense significantly by signing Tex, they are in trouble.

  • Steve

    Mike, if Andy was to leave and we get the #17 pick for him, wouldn’t that be the highest pick we’ve ever had since the last time he left in 2004? And if I remember correctly, that was the pick we used to get Phil Hughes.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      The Yanks had the #17 pick in 205, took CJ Henry.

      • Steve

        As hideous as that pick looks, you can at least say we turned that pick into Bobby Abreu the following year.

        • A.D.

          But if they had put him in the backcourt with AJAX that would have been dynamic

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            Cash should have AJax, Henry, and Brackman challenge the best ballers in everybody else’s systems in a 3-on-3 halfcourt double elimination basketball tournament.

            Winning organization gets the first pick in the 2009 draft, regardless of record.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            Cash should have AJax, Henry, and Brackman challenge the best ballers in everybody else’s systems in a 3-on-3 halfcourt double elimination basketball tournament.

            Winning organization gets the first pick in the 2009 draft, regardless of record.

            • A.D.

              Thats pretty much the only way Junior Spivey gets a contract again

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

              They should sign Tony Clark and Kenny Lofton for some veteran leadership.

              • Steve H

                We’ll have to trade for Chris Young (SD) as well, and have Winfield be the coach.

    • steve (different one)

      they also had the 17th pick in 2005, CJ Henry.

      • steve (different one)

        too slow.

  • C.Panella

    Ok please dont get me wrong here guys but ive noticed a lot of you guys on here are very draft happy…Dont get me wrong the draft is very very important but when it comes to doing a life time yankee a solid and letting him go out the way he wants is MUCH more important for him and the team…He will be a great guy to keep in the back of the rotation bring him back and do the right thing enough about letting him walk and getting a pick for him jeese this is pettitte guys not ponson

    • A.D.

      No one has said the Yankees should let Andy go so they can get the picks… they’ve only said not the worst thing ever if he does, and we do get a first round draft pick

      • Steve H

        And long term, a 1st round pick might be better than 1 year of Andy anyway even if it doesn’t pan out. Like mentioned above, we turned CJ Henry into Abreu. Even though it was a blown pick and Henry sucked, he still had some value to get us Abreu.

      • steve (different one)

        eh, i hope the fact that Pettitte is a “lifetime yankee” isn’t a big part of their decision at all.

        the decision should really be whether or not they think Pettitte will give them 200 innings at/above a league average ERA or not. if so, bring him back.

        i think he IS capable of doing that, so i think they should bring him back. but after his second half, it’s not like it’s a slam dunk.

        if they don’t think he can do that, they should let him walk, regardless of who he is or how well he pitched in the WS 12 years ago.

  • Trevor

    Signing Burnett is not going to take this rotation to another level like signing CC will. You can’t honestly count on him to be healthy and live up to that contract he’s asking for. His biggest seasons have been when he’s either a FA, or has and option. That’s no coincidence. Where ever he signs he’ll be living on the DL. You’re really not going to see much of him. His history shows this. The Yankees should stay away, it’s really not a wise investment.

  • A.D.

    If shit really hit the fan and we get no one, then at least we get younger:

    Wang 29
    Joba 23
    Hughes 23
    IPK 24
    Aceves 26

    • BigBlueAL

      Well if that is the case, all you guys who love draft picks will love the Top 10 pick the Yanks will have in the 2010 draft.

    • Matt

      Yeah, no way we have a shot at the playoffs with that rotation.

      • Chip

        I don’t know about that. Wang and Joba could be solid. Plus, the other three have a history of dominating in the minors. You never know when pitchers will suddenly just have it click and start mowing down hitters in the bigs

      • Steve H

        With a down offense, and a rotation that got 6 wins out of 3 of it’s season opening starters, we almost made the playoffs this year. Joba will win more games this year, Wang will, and Hughes and Kennedy can’t win any less.

    • steve (different one)

      there is no way i see this happening.

      • A.D.

        They can start throwing money at Odalis & Oliver Perez… corner the left-handed Perez market

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          IT WAS THE DUKES IT WAS THE DUKES

  • Trevor

    A.D., If no CC I definitely see that happening. They just would have to go really young. And fans are going to learn how to be patient. Also the bright spot is there are other prospects who are pretty close with higher upside then those you listed. If no Sabathia then I am anxious to see more likely in 2010 these guys:

    Garcia
    McAllister
    Brackman
    Betances

    I can see Garcia (if he can finally stay on the field) competing for a job in the rotation in ST 2010. He certainly has the stuff to very good.
    McAllister is pretty polished but he’s more of a number 3 type starter.
    My favorite pitching prospect is Betances. I believe he has the highest upside. Would love to see him in the rotation in the foreseeable future.

    Wang
    Joba
    Hughes
    Betances
    Garcia ……………….anyone?

    • Steve

      Ladies and Gentlemen . . . . welcome your 2010 Kansas City Royals!!!

    • Chip

      Those are all very high-upside guys but there’s no way any of them start on the 2010 squad out of spring training unless Garcia is in the bullpen maybe.
      Garcia is too far away and has been hurt
      McAllister is only 19 or 20 and hasn’t pitched in AA yet
      Brackman is coming off TJS and will struggle with command just like every other super tall pitcher does.
      Betences already struggles with command like every tall pitcher and hasn’t pitched in AA

      Of that group, I could see Brackman/Garcia getting a cup of tea in the big leagues in September just because they’re on the 40 man already

      I’d would say you have a better shot with Phil Coke starting in 2010 (who I think is incredibly underrated as a starter) just because he’s left-handed, doesn’t walk many, will start at AAA and already showed he can get big leagers out

    • A.D.

      Hacker & Wright… while a bit older put together nice years in the minors last year

  • A.D.

    Can the Yanks still make a 40 man roster move and protect for Rule V… perhaps remove Britton, and get Cox on the 40 man

    • Matt

      protect who? Igawa?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      Nope. Deadline was last Thursday.

    • Accent Shallow

      No, the deadline has passed.

      Paradoxically, they might have a better chance of keeping Cox if he’s not on the 40 man. If they had added him, they might have to DFA him to sign a free agent, after which he’d have to pass through waivers. He has a much greater chance of getting claimed off waivers than of getting picked in the Rule V draft.

      • steve (different one)

        i agree.

        i would be very surprised if Cox made it through an entire season on a big league roster on account of the fact that he like, kindof sucks.

      • A.D.

        hmm… didn’t think of it that way, certainly true

  • Steve

    If the Yanks are cool on Andy, there may very well be a good reason for it.

    Andy did have something going on with his shoulder late last year. He pitched through it, but they examined him at the end of the season so they should know what’s going on in there. Often times shoulder injuries don’t get better until they’re operated on, and even the operations can be tricky.

    Just a guess, but at his age he’s a risky sign to begin with. You never know when he’s going to start losing it. Actually, we may very well have seen the beginning of the end for Andy in the second half of this season.

    I want Andy back, but I can’t kill them if he goes. We can safely assume they have info we don’t.

  • Chip

    If the Yankees were to sign both CC and Sheets, then I’m not opposed to losing Pettite. The only thing is, we need to know very soon because the deadline to offer arbitration is approaching. I’d be very surprised if he signed with another team before that deadline and would obviolusly accept arbitration from us and end up with another 16 million dollar contract.

    Either way, the only way we could get the #17 pick is if Pettite signed before the arbitration deadline which the Dodgers would be stupid to do. It’s essentially giving up your first round pick in order to sign him a week earlier.

    • A.D.

      Yankees would likely offer arb, and he won’t necessarily get the same contract since he performed worse than the previous year

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

        Pettitte’s not going to have his salary decreased in arbitration. No player has ever had their salary decreased in arb, and it’s not about to happen with Andy. At worst, he’ll make $16M again.

        • http://www.consumerenergyreport.com Lancer

          As much as I always liked Andy, it’s impossible to make the case that he’s worth that at this point.

          If players performance declines as they get older, then shouldn’t their salary go down in arbitration too? If the whole point of arbitration is to fairly settle the dispute, by never decreasing salary it seems to be negating the fairness IMO.

          BTW, hi Mike A. I was a late-night regular on your DoTF’s.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

            Yep, I remember. Long time no … uh … comment.

            • http://www.consumerenergyreport.com Lancer

              Haha, has Jamal been around? He always kept it lively :)

              • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

                How’s it?

    • Steve

      Why? Are you that worried that Andy would accept arbitration?

      If the Yanks offered it to him, but made it clear that they really don’t want him back, then he would most likely decline the offer. And that presumes that there isn’t a clause in his contract where its already been agreed upon that its automatic he declines.

      I wonder about arbitration for Yankee players who were signed by other teams (Abreu). But for players signed by the Yanks, with the money they pay for FAs, I think they can put an automatic decline clause in the deal.

    • Steve H

      If we get CC and Sheets/Lowe/Burnett, I absolutely don’t want Pettitte back. In that case, he’d be our #4/#5 and I’d definitely prefer the draft pick. Throw one of the young guys at the back end of the rotation. Out of Hughes/IPK/Aceves/Coke or some combination, I think once we weeded out who the best of those guys is going to be for next year, they could possibly outperform what Pettitte would have given you, and certainly do better than what Pettitte did in the 2nd half this year. That would save $$$, give us a pick, and probably get similar results out of our #5 spot for the 2nd half of the year. In a side note, Rob Neyer today predicted that Hughes or Kennedy would win 14-16 games this year, he just didn’t know which one. To my point, I think with all of the options at the #5 spot, someone would step up and at least give solid #5 performance, if not greatly exceed it. With Pettitte the upside at this point is limited. At best, he’s what, a #3? And that’s asking a lot after the way he finished last year.

  • http://www.consumerenergyreport.com Lancer

    Hey guys, I haven’t commented here in a while… good to be back.

    About C.C., obviously I’m getting a bit antsy. But realistically, whether he plans on signing here or not, he won’t be jumping at the Yankees offer. “There may be more where it came from” is what he –and his agent– is thinking.

    If he doesn’t sign here we may be screwed a bit for this year. I won’t be too upset if Andy signs elsewhere as he’s given us no reason to believe that he’ll be any better (if not worse) than last year at his age. Maybe the HGH helped him, I don’t know. But the fact is, Moose proved he can get it done even without the same stuff he once had, Andy on the other hand has yet to prove that.

  • Samsonov KGB

    i know its a little early but if we miss out on CC which starters hit the FA market after 09?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      A whole bunch of nobodies. Lackey, but we wants an extension and I’m sure the Angels would like to lock him up. After him, there’s Harden, Bedard, and Brett Myers. Like I said, a bunch of crap.

      Beckett, Lee and Webb all have options that will be picked up.

      http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.c.....gents.html

      • http://www.consumerenergyreport.com Lancer

        That might suck… I can’t see the Angels making a play for C.C. and letting Lackey walk after the year.

        As far as the others, each one is a problem case in its own right.

        • Steve H

          Even if the class were great, we can’t just assume that they would sign with the Yankees, just as we can’t assume CC will. With no CC, we either look to trade, or continue to build from within. We can’t look ahead to free agent classes, assuming that down the line, the player/pitcher is still good, they haven’t been locked up by their current team, or traded and locked up by their new team, or that they absolutely will sign with the Yankees. That is why it is vital to get CC, though if they don’t, let’s not blame Cashman. If we don’t get CC, no one will be to blame.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            SOMEONE MUST BE BLAMED BECAUSE IT’S A SILLY SELF-AGGRANDIZING WAY FOR ME TO ACT OUT MY PETTY INSECURITIES AND GRANDSTAND LIKE I’M SMARTER THAN CASHMAN, WHO’S A PENCIL-PUSHING DORK!!!!!!!!

            • Steve H

              Oops, how could I forget. Let’s blame: Cash, Hal, Hank, George, A-Rod, Pavano, Melky, and Torre. That work?

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                NO GEORGE AND TORRE WERE AWESOME AND SAINTS IT’S ALL AROD CASHMAN AND ROBBIE CANO’S FAULT!!!!

                • whozat

                  At what point do we start being meta-sarcastic and making jokes by acting like we’re taking obviously sarcastic comments seriously?

          • http://www.consumerenergyreport.com Lancer

            Good point. Gone are the days when the best free agent was an automatic Yankee if we wanted him.

    • A.D.

      Lackey, Bedard, and Harden would be the most interesting

      • Chip

        No love for Escobar?

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

          Eh, he could be interesting. Luckily they’ll get the benefit of seeing how he rebounds from shoulder surgery this year before he hits the market.

        • A.D.

          34 year old that will have pitched 200 innings once… pass

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            Escobar will be 32, not 34 next winter, FWIW.

            (Unless you have knowledge of a fudged birth certificate, which wouldn’t surprise me…)

            • A.D.

              he was born in 1976, 31 end of last year, 32 this year, 33 next year, and 34 for the 2010 season… when you would get to start him

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                Gotcha. You were counting from opening day, I was counting from when he hits the market (and I didn’t correct for the fact that his birthday is a week after opening day, so all his BR.com age-seasons references are a year misleading)…

                My mistake, you’re correct.

          • Steve H

            He was a reliever for several years as well, so the 200 inning argument is leaving some facts out. That said, unless he was on a short term, cheap deal, I’m not interested.

            • A.D.

              true, but him being reliver doesn’t prove any durability as a starter… which is what the Yanks would be looking for

  • Samsonov KGB

    do you think a signing of CC or Tex by the Angels would affect their extension of Lackey? what kind of money would lackey demand and at how many years?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      No idea. On the open market I could see him getting 5 or 6 years at $18M-20M per.

      • steve (different one)

        this seems about right, halfway between Burnett and Sabathia.

        • http://www.consumerenergyreport.com Lancer

          I disagree. I think Lackey is a better pitcher than Sabathia. Definitely better than just half the distance to the goal between Burnett and CC. Who are we kidding? AJ stinks unless he pitches against the Yanks. He’s got excellent stuff, but doesn’t know how to use it against anyone other than the Yanks.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            Lackey’s wicked good, but Sabathia’s been better than him over his career (pretty consistently), is more durable, and he’s hitting free agency now at 28. Lackey will turn 31 next fall when he hits the market.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

              But he won Game 7 of the World Series as a rookie. Has CC ever done that? No, because HE CANT PITCH IN TEH PLAY-OFFS!!11!1!

              • http://www.consumerenergyreport.com Lancer

                Roger that, Mike!

                CC has PROVEN that he sucks in the playoffs as much as he’s proven that he’s a very good regular season pitcher.

                Things can always change at his young age, but I’d place my bet on Lackey way before Sabathia in the playoffs any day.

                That’s besides the point that Burnett doesn’t even belong in the convo.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                  Lancer, you do know that Mike was mocking the foolishness of numerous idiots who don’t understand sample size issues, right?

                • http://www.consumerenergyreport.com Lancer

                  Went over my head :P

              • Thomas

                We need to get to the playoffs first before we can even think about winning them. And clearly with that pencil neck beancounter at the helm we won’t make it there in the next 40 years.

                Even if we do make the playoffs we’ll just lose int eh first round!!!!!!

  • E-ROC

    Pettitte feels slighted so he’s interested in joining the Dodgers? Pettitte will be waiting awhile as the Yanks wait for CC to make a decision. ‘Ol well.

  • http://www.consumerenergyreport.com Lancer

    We’re all caught up in the pitching rotation, but what the hell is going to be with our lineup.

    1) Matsui, Posada and Damon are all one year older.

    2) Swisher for Giambi?

    And don’t forget that our problem last year has been the offense much more so than the starting pitching.

    I’m beginning to rethink that we might need Teix in this lineup in a big way.

    • Chip

      1) Matsui and Posada are a year healthier (knock on wood) while yes Damon is older
      2)Giambi put up a OPS+ of 128 last year, I feel like Swisher could cover that and maybe exceed it as he’s entering what should be his prime.
      3)Cano almost has to be better
      4)A-Rod, by the every other year rule, is primed for a historically dominant season (unlike is normal dsimply dominant seasons)
      5)Melky won’t get 414 ABs of close-your-eyes-and-swing offense

      But yeah, I still want Tex

      • http://www.consumerenergyreport.com Lancer

        1) “Matsui and Posada a year healthier” L O L
        2) Swisher is a much better player than he was last year, that we all know. How much better, is the question.
        3) Couldn’t agree more.
        4) Would that cancel out with Beckett since he subscribes to the every other year rule too, and this year he’s due?
        5) I still think Gardner can do the job. But we’re in dire need of a 3 hitter at this point w/o Abreu and Giambi.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          FWIW, Kevin Long is touting Cano as that potential 3-hole hitter…

          • Steve H

            Since he’s not patient, the #3 might be great for him hitting in front of A-Rod, seeing more fastballs, more strikes.

            • http://www.consumerenergyreport.com Lancer

              I don’t think they should be comfortable with Cano being a 3 hitter coming off of last season’s dreadful performance. Down the line, I can see the possibility, but at this point I think we’re in big trouble if we’re relying on him as the #3 hitter in our lineup.

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                I’m just giving you Long’s thoughts. He said Cano is tearing it up this offseason and is ready to hit #3 or #5, in 2009.

                According to Long, Robbie’s definitely born again hard. Hell, Kevin may even allow Cano to serve as a rifleman in his beloved Corps.

                • steve (different one)

                  impossible. Cano is lazy. i’ve been hearing it all winter so it must be true.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                  “impossible. Cano is lazy Dominican. i’ve been hearing it all winter so it must be true.”

                  Fixed.

  • steve (different one)

    of course, no one has mentioned the possibility that Pettitte is simply negotiating through the media?

    that the idea of “going home to Papa Joe” is just believable enough to scare the Yankees into speeding things up?

  • Steve

    If we lose out on CC, it won’t be the first time we had to go with Plan B for our pitching needs.

    Back in 1993, we blew away a Plan A pitcher with a huge offer, who didn’t really want to come here. He signed elsewhere for less.

    So we ended up signing a Plan B who had 2 shoulder surgeries and was banged up a lot during the past 5 seasons for his previous team.

    Plan A was Greg Maddux, who despite putting up some of the best years in Baseball history was average in the playoffs, and his team managed just one title in 10 straight playoff berths.

    Plan B was Jimmy Key (one of my all time favorites) who was key to the Yankee turnaround and was 4-0 in post season games in 1996.

    You never know how these things turn out, people.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      Jimmy Key, what’s he, like 45?

      I could hit him…

      • Steve

        47.

        Totally 100% grey, too. Which is kinda scary.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

          Key spent his entire career in the AL East and finished with a 3.51 ERA. That’s pretty impressive, even if the AL East back then wasn’t what it is now.

          • A.D.

            probably what turned him Grey

          • http://www.consumerenergyreport.com Lancer

            That’s one of the only arguments for Moose to make it into the HOF that I think holds some water. The fact that he pitched in the AL East AND during the steroid era no less…

            • steve (different one)

              which arguments don’t hold water?

              • http://www.consumerenergyreport.com Lancer

                Bottom line is, he didn’t dominate in his career. He was consistently good, but I think the HOF is meant for the elite.

                Don’t get me wrong, I’m a big fan of the Moose and would love for him to make it one day, but I don’t belive that it’s deserved.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                  I’d say, outside of two hiccups in 1993 and 1996, Moose’s 1992 to 2001 is pretty damn “dominant”.

                  http://www.baseball-reference......mi01.shtml

                  The only way Moose doesn’t stack up against any of the best is if you’re comparing him to the very very top of the mountaintop (like Pedro and Maddux), and with that metric, nobody’s a Hall of Famer.

          • Steve

            I loved Key. The REAL #22!! One of my top 4 all time Yankees. (Nettles/El Duque/Guidry are the others) He threw 5 different change ups, and made pitching look like anyone can do it. He was also credited with helping other guys on the staff, and to this day Girardi swears he would make a great pitching coach someday.

            I still hold out hope that IPK can turn into a right handed version of Jimmy Key. They have a lot of similarities (other than handedness, which is kinda huge). Similar demeanor, neither is a hard thrower, both of their best pitches are change ups and both would gladly walk a guy rather than give in. Key had better control, however.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones
        • A.D.

          thats gold

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

          Fuck the heck, when did YouTube go HD?

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            You know? I just noticed that today. It wasn’t letterbox yesterday…

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

              From Wikipedia:

              Widescreen and HD video
              In late November 2008, YouTube changed the aspect ratio of its video player from 4:3 to 16:9. This is applied to all videos, so the 4:3 videos are screened in a pillarbox format.[52]
              It was also announced in November 2008 that YouTube now offers some of its videos in true HD format, with a resolution of 1280 X 720 pixels. Videos uploaded with 720 pixel resolution can be viewed in this format by adding &fmt=22 to the web address.”

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youtube

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

                Where would we be without Wikipedia? Not a day goes by that I don’t hit it up for something.

              • http://www.consumerenergyreport.com Lancer

                Wikipedia fans, read this http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27908269/

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

                  Wow. Good thing I ignore my medical problems. They’ll go away eventually.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones
    • Steve H

      We also preferred Hampton to Moose.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

        Yeah, but it’s not like anyone could have predicted Hampton would be that horrible. The guy had just rattled off four straight years of 210+ innings with a 3.30 ERA. 28 yrs old, lefthanded, what was not to like? (except for all those damn walks)

        • Steve H

          Oh I know, I’m just saying sometimes plan B works out better. It was Plan B for a reason, there was obviously a good reason to want Hampton.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          28 yrs old, lefthanded, what was not to like?

          Hmmm, perhaps the fact that he was a power pitcher barely bigger than Nate Robinson? Destined to break down?

          I’m telling you, the more I look back through free agent pitchers, the more I fall in love with CC’s gargantuan fatboy blubber.

          • Steve H

            As crazy as it sounds, CC has a great pitchers body.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

              And a really good delivery. Very little effort, and he repeats it well. It’s a good thing when the worst thing you could say about a pitcher is “he’s fat.”

              • Steve H

                As a great point of reference, David Wells, starting at age 33 had 9 seasons of 30+starts over the next 10 years, including 7 of 200+innings. I’d be happy to see CC on a 6 year deal, but if they want to go to 8, I’m on board. Hell, if it takes 10, I say go for it, knowing they’ll be a few dud years in there, but he’s an ace.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                  It’s almost as if the fat cushions and insulates the joints, like nature’s WD-40 and fiberglass…

                  ——————–

                  Dr. Hibbert: You have a rare disease known as Homer Simpson Syndrome.
                  Homer: Oh, WHY ME?!?!?!
                  Dr. Hibbert: No, no, it’s quite beneficial. Your brain is surrounded by a layer of fluid one-eighth of an inch thicker than usual. Why, I could literally whack you in the head with this surgical 2×4 all day and you wouldn’t feel a thing…

          • Steve

            Which was the main reason why the Yanks passed on Santana.
            6’0″ 190 pounds and already showing signs of a diminished fastball. Guys that size who are power pitcher tend not to age well. Typically start breaking down in the early 30′s. Guidry was done at 34, Hampton at 32, Pedro at 34.

            BTW-Check out the sponsor of Johan’s BR page

            http://www.baseball-reference......jo02.shtml

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

              Chase Utley’s sponsorship is even better.

              http://www.baseball-reference......ch01.shtml

              Oh those silly Mets’ fans.

              • Steve H
                • Steve

                  Hahahahahahahahahah!!!

                  God, I love NoMaas.

                • Steve H

                  Can RAB sponsor Varitek and Youk’s pages? I’m sure someone can come up with something nice and degrading. Someone like, TSJC.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                  Let’s just get Austrian Gay TV to sponsor Pedroia’s page.

                  The joke writes itself.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

                  You know, Youk’s page is actually available…

                • Steve

                  I think they go for about $14 each or something.

                  Everybody, chuck a buck into the middle of the table. Don’t forget to leave Mike a tip.

                • Steve

                  Yikes! $110 for Monsieur Youkilis.

                  Isn’t he the fancy man.

                • Steve H

                  Grit is expensive my friend.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                  Everybody, chuck a buck into the middle of the table. Don’t forget to leave Mike a tip.

                  Alright, ramblers, let’s get ramblin…

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

                  You can’t put a price on grit my friend.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

                  Alright, ramblers, let’s get ramblin…

                  I’m not tipping. I don’t believe in it.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      http://riveraveblues.com/2008/.....1994-2957/

      “Now let me take a trip down memory lane…
      …comin’ outta Queensbridge”

      • steve (different one)

        that was the first time i saw that piece. it’s kindof interesting how many crappy trades, mediocre drafts and pointless FA signings that Gene Michael actually made but have been forgotten/forgiven by the pages of history.

        hey, to the victor goes the spoils, but that’s not the impression one would get from reading a lot of comments here.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          Perhaps the new meme should be that Brian Cashman is not Chinese.

    • Matt M.

      Maddux

      93 – 267ip
      94 – 202ip
      95 – 209ip
      96 – 267ip

      vs. Key’s

      236
      168
      30
      169

      while maddux put up Era+’s of 171, 271, 262,162
      to key’s high mark of 141

      key helped. and obviously no one is disputing who the better pitcher is but for us to turn our dynasty again it will pend on our farm system panning out.

      ==
      just thinking back…wowo that team was a beauty. it had a great rotation and it had young studs at premium positions with bernie, jeter and posada (after girardi was fazed out)

      idk how 2009 will turn out, but in a few years we might be drawing a few comparisons with a rotation of wang joba hughes (X player from this FA) and a core up the middle or cano jackson and romine

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

        Greg Maddux since 2001:

        219 unintentional walks
        273 games started

        That is freaking insane.

        • Steve

          1994 and 1995.

          Two of the greatest season any pitcher has ever had in the history of Baseball. Only exceeded by Pedro’s 2000 campaign.

          http://www.baseball-reference......ason.shtml

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

            How the hell do you give up nearly 100 fewer hits than innings pitched in the AL East? Holy schnikees.

            • Steve

              Back then, the Yanks were in the midst of their championship run and even they didn’t really try to beat him as much as avoid him. The battle plan was pretty much to make him throw as many pitches as possible and get him out of the game. Try to beat the Sox bullpen.

          • Steve H

            Don’t forget Pedro’s 1999 as well. 313 k’s in 213 innings. Sick.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            This just in: Pedro Martinez was good.

            • Ivan

              that he was.

      • Steve

        Nobody’s arguing that Key is in any way better than Maddux. All that I referred to was “how it works out for the team”.

        • Matt M.

          no im not saying that thats the argument. but had the 90′s dynasty had maddux …who knows what would have happ ened. the real ‘key’ to that success was dedication to a farm system. something which bodes well for us through cashmans plan since 2005

          • Matt M.

            for example, we may get CC, or maybe we get one from the lowe/ sheets/ burnett class. but if romine jackson and angelini pan out like their predecessors…then we’d be in business.

  • YankCrank20

    Here’s a fun fact about our new starting 1b:

    “Nick Swisher was selected by the A’s with the Boston Red Sox first round pick in 2002 as compensation for the loss of free agent Johnny Damon.”

    Pretty funny how that worked out huh?

  • Conan the Barack O’Brian

    NPR is doing a bit right now on the Indian pitchers Pittsburgh signed…

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      Roma: Patel? Ravadem Patel? How am I gonna make a livin’ on these deadbeats? Where did you get this one from the morgue?
      Williamson: Look I’m…
      Roma: Oh come on, what’s the point? What’s the fucking point in any case–I gotta argue with you? I gotta knock heads with the cops, I’m busting my balls–sell your dirt to deadbeats! Money in the mattress! I come back, you can’t even keep the contracts safe–FUCK YOU, JOHN.

    • Steve

      NPR does comedy?

      You mean that douche who plays the piano with the bad bow tie?

  • Steve

    Ian Kennedy pitched tonight

    7 innings pitched, 3 hits, no runs, no walks, and 4 k’s. 10 ground ball outs, and 7 fly ball outs.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/.....n_maywin_1

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      God he sucks.

    • Mike Pop

      B-U-S-T

      • Steve

        He does have a nice rack, now that you mention it.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          Ian Kennedy = Jayne Kennedy

    • A.D.

      And Alby shut the door in the 9th

  • Mike Pop

    So you guys think the Johan contract is going to come back and hurt the Mets ? I just read some comments above and didnt want to post it up there but you guys think he is going to break down and not be so good in a couple of years

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      He already had one surgery, and his Kper9, WHIP, and OBPA against have been declining for four seasons now. He’s obviously not going to fall off a cliff next year, but there’s something going on there.

      • Mike Pop

        Ya I mean his K’s went down this year even though he went to the NL.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

          And he had his worst WHIP since ’02.

  • Nickel

    My apologies if this completely random fact has been brought up already, but is anyone else amused by the fact that the backup quarterback for the Lions on Thursday is going to be Drew Henson?

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones
      • Nickel

        lol…okay, fair enough. But he was officially activated off the practice squad yesterday, so as of yesterday, he’s now in reality the #2 guy.

    • Steve

      If I was the Titans, I’d throw him a curveball.

  • Mike Pop

    Those TIS commercials are great…

  • Reggie C.

    ANYBODY CATCH THE SHIELD FINALE ??

    I’ve watched each season till this one , which work forced me to miss in its entirety till tonight. I had to watch the finale out of respect to this really good show. Its not the Wire, but its a damn good show for basic cable.

    It was a hard ending for the Strike Team.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      I did. I love that show. I’ve watched the whole run, and I can’t believe it’s over.

  • RustyJohn

    Unless, as Dave suggests above, he is injured more severely than we know, the Yanks needs to sign Pettite ASAP. Beyond the obvious of providing them an above average 4th or 5th starter who will eat up 200 innings, signing him greatly increases the Yankees bargaining position. They no longer have a need to sign two or three other potential free agents, losing draft picks. They won’t be bent over the barrel as much by Sabathia, Lowe or AJ and once one FA pitcher signs, the rest will fall like dominos. That alone is worth over paying Pettite. I understand their waiting to see what Mosse did, but Andy, if healthy, should be the first one they sign.

    • RustyJohn

      BTW- anyone know of some place that has statistical analysis of what an average 4th or 5th starter’s numbers were last year? I think Hardball Times did something a couple of years ago where they found the average 5th starter in the AL had an ERA around 6 and the average 4th starter had an ERA around 4.75 or 5.

  • Brian M

    I always wanted Andy back, but the picks could be nice. Think about it this way, if he was somebody else’s free agent would you want to trade our first rounder for a 1 yr rental of a declining Pettitte? LA will be signing multiple free agents this winter though so don’t bank on getting the 17th pick for Andy. They’d likely only sign him since they’d already have lost their 1st round pick for signing someone else.

    If we are going after free agents, it makes sense to do it all in the one year and not keep losing picks year after yr. Why not let Andy go to the Dodgers, then sign Lowe and Sabathia. Hughes deserves another chance, and Wang and Joba round out the rotation, with Kennedy and Aceves as cover. Sabathia, Lowe and Wang are all veterans so Pettitte is needed as much for his leadership and although both young, Hughes and Joba are two pretty solid guys to be throwing out there.

    For a transition year that is pretty good and next yr there are tons of interesting pitchers hitting the free agents market. If Harden can get through a season healthy he would be worth a look. His injuries over the last couple of years probably mean he won’t be a type A either. Bottom line is we developed the kids to play, we need to give then some innings now. If it doesn’t work out a lot of guys will become available during the season. With a ton of picks waiting for us Cashman can better afford to trade away a couple of young guys for a Harden, Lackey, Duscherer or Bedard midseason. I think Hughes will surprise us all this year though.

    If we offer Pudge arbitration and lose Pettitte and Abreu, together with our compensation picks, we’d have a ton of picks in the draft.

    It’d be a 1 yr restock of the system which would give us a stable of top guys in A ball.

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