The Sabathia dance

Thanksgiving Day Open Thread
Black Friday with the Yankees

To raise or not to raise? That is the question, and it’s one on which Ken Davidoff can’t quite get a handle. As MLBTR notes, yesterday, Davidoff’s sources said the Yanks would not raise their offer to CC Sabathia. Today, Davidoff reports that the Yankees would go higher if the Angels ever get around to making a bid. Meanwhile, unless something drastic happens, it seems as though CC will remain unsigned through the weekend. Alas.

Thanksgiving Day Open Thread
Black Friday with the Yankees
  • brockdc

    I guess if I’m Cashman, maybe I’d go to 6/145. If that’s not enough for CC, then you wish him the best of luck and focus elsewhere. I think I’m probably a little bit more sentimental than you guys insofar as I want prospective Yankees to at least show a token gesture of humility and desire in wanting to play for the greatest team in sports. I know, I know – I’m old school.

    If he signs with either L.A. team, then I think the best bet would be to target Tex, Burnett and/or Sheets, depending on their respective asking prices. If you can get Tex to sign for fewer than 8 yrs, Burnett for 4, and Sheets for 3, you go for it.

    Happy Turkey, RAB. Great work!

  • yankeestripes

    My first offer would have been 6yrs 160 but i wouldnt offer the 7th year as ive read my be an option.

  • Old Ranger

    CC=6/140, maybe a 7th year option, with a deadline…stick with the deadline, move on. At the same time I would be heavily involved in discussions with Tex and Sheets. Whomever signs first (pitchers) shuts the door on the negotiations with any-other pitcher…one pitcher and Tex, that is all we need this year. Needless to say, if some deal (Peavey or Crawford) came up and made sense (money/players) we go for it.
    We do not even consider trading Cano or Phil. Phil can (will) be a front line pitcher in the near future and Cano is a front line 2nd basemen and hitter.
    Why do some want to trade Phil+ for Peavey, both of them are front line pitchers but phil is on the way to where Peavey is now.
    Can you tell I have a house full of really old people talking “remember when…..”?And in the family room the old guys are telling (Lying) about their war stories, I think I’ll pass again this year…nice to have them around once a year. Again, have a Good One this year and many more of the same! 27/09.

    • JD

      Not sure if you noticed within the past month. But the Yankees would not have to and could get a deal done for Peavy without involving Hughes.

      • TurnTwo

        i would take that with a grain of salt…

  • YankCrank20

    It’ll be pretty brutal if no big name falls before the Winter meetings.

  • Mike P

    The Yanks just have to react and offer probably $10-15 million more then everyone else. If that isn’t enough to bag CC then they’ll be struggling to get him to New York without completely blowing the budget. Should the Angels go significantly over $140 million, they’ll get him if Sabathia really does care that much about playing west.

  • Matt

    I say Sheets on a 2yr 16per contract. Low risk, high reward. Even make the 3rd year an option if he reaches certain IP incentives….

    • Zack

      Right, because of course Sheets will take that. I mean, why not take only two years.

    • Brown44

      Sheets will spend quite a bit of time on the DL. He is not a durable pitcher, I’d rather give the money to lesser pitcher than to pay for another hole in the rotation.

  • felixpanther

    can’t imagine Yankees out bid by anyone, unless CC willing to take less money

    • Mike

      I think the whole point of the Yankees overbidding is because NY isn’t Sabathia’s first choice and wants to go west.

      • Lanny

        We really have no clue what his choices are because hes never said it. People are assuming what he wants and what his choices are.

        All this talk about him dying to play in Cali could be horse poo for all we know.

        No player ever takes the first offer and no big player ever signs real early.

        • Steve H

          Your whole comment makes some great points that too many people seem to ignore or forget. People are assuming so much. When has CC said I want to play in Cali? He hasn’t. Is the Yankees 6/140 offer their final offer? Of course not. Should we be surprised/upset/shocked he hasn’t accepted? Of course not. Their FIRST offer was a way to weed out the contenders and the pretenders. The Brewers are officially out of the running. If the Yankees best offer was 6/140, they wouldn’t have made it 1st, so the, “I’d go another $5 mil” comments make no sense. The Yankees have their offers in mind and are holding them close to the vest. It’s called negotiation.

        • Mike A.

          Would anyone really be surprised if the whole “he wants to play on the west coast” thing was just a ploy to get more teams involved in the bidding and ultimately driving up the price?

          Agents are cool like that.

  • Joe Fitz

    How can anyone say what there offer would be?

    Have you seen the Yankees books?

    Maybe they can go 45 per yr how do we know?

  • Lancer

    I don’t really understand the issue here. Until Sabathia says he doesn’t want to take our deal why would we go higher. Like Davidoff reported “the Yankees would go higher if the Angels ever get around to making a bid”…

    First let’s see someone match us, or at least see if he’s inclined to take another offer. Until that point we’d be bidding against no one but ourselves.

    • Mike

      Yes, that would be the smart thing to do. However, we have a couple of turkeys for our owners (well maybe just one turkey ..cough Hank cough..). I bet he was the one leaking we were going to raise our bid. Pure idiocy.

      • Ben K.

        Let me clarify something: The Yanks aren’t saying they will raise their bid. Unnamed sources are saying the team would consider upping its bid if another team equaled their current six-year, $140 million bid. Before, Davidoff reported they wouldn’t.

        No one is saying the Yanks are going to up their bid without another bid on the table.

        • Lanny

          You got to give CC’s agents some credit. There have been zero leaks out of that group.

        • Steve H

          Just like the unnamed sources claim CC wants to play in the NL, in Cali. We truly are in the dark on this, no matter what any “insiders” for any party say.

        • Lancer

          Ok, I hear ya. Knew it didn’t make much sense otherwise.

          If I ever get to meet Mr. Unnamed Source himself, I’d be interested to know he manages to have inside info on such various subjects. From Sports to politics to business… that guy is literally the jack of all trades! ;)

  • Peter Lacock

    The flurry of moves by the Yanks is mind numbing. We have already signed up the GM, named Hal the big shot, completed the bullpen by signing Marte, traded for Swisher to complete the everyday lineup, said bye to Moose, filled out the 40 man roster, got everything done with Andy except for the final signatures and offered the biggest contract in history for a pitcher to CC. Whew! C-Money is really kicking butt! Time for a break! I don’t know any team that is anywhere near being this close to being ready for spring training. I also don’t remember the Yanks or any team ever being this close to being set this early since free agency began. No one will match the CC offer so he should be locked up in the next week and then we’ll see if we want to sign up another SP. That’s it! After that we just sit back and wait until February. There will be no Yankee news for 3 months!

  • OldYanksFan

    “No player ever takes the first offer and no big player ever signs real early.”
    What about one Jason Giambi? And while I agree in pricipal, this is an exception. This is higher dollars then Santana, and CC ain’t no Santana. This was a bid to close, not to bargain with.

    As much as we need CC, I think it’s a terrible precident for the Yankees to outbid others by $10m-$20m, to coerce a player who doesn’t want to come here, to come here.

    I don’t think anyone is going 10 years on Tex. Remember when Boras said JD needs 7 years? And he jumped at 4. I’ll say Tex can be had for 7/$133. It the Angels bid over $20m/yr for a pitcher then don’t really need, I say LET THEM HAVE CC, and we go hard after Tex. We can get Lackey next year. With this economy, there will be salary dumps at the ASB, and decent deals to be had.

    • Steve H

      “CC ain’t no Santana”

      Really? He hasn’t been historically, but he has been better the last 2 years. When they were in the AL in 2007, CC was better. When they were in the NL in 2008, CC was better. Looking forward, based on peripheral trends, body type, etc., I think there is a great chance CC will be better. We want to pay for the next 6 years, not the last 6 years right?

      • Mike

        I agree. Plus you have to factor in his dominance in the playoffs against the Red Sox and with Brewers.

      • Mike A.

        We want to pay for the next 6 years, not the last 6 years right

        Exactly right. CC may not be Johan, but that’s like saying Tom Brady is no Peyton Manning. Splitting hairs.

    • Mike Pop

      I think within the next 5 years CC will be better overall than Johan.. Johan’s numbers have been dropping for sometime, as Mike A mentioned the other night he had his highest whip since 02.. His K’s keep going down.. While CC seems to be getting better each year

    • steve (different one)

      I’ll say Tex can be had for 7/$133.

      i’ll take the over.

      we’ll see i guess.

      but Teixeira already turned down more than this from the Rangers a year and a half ago. when was the last time Boras made a miscalculation like that?

      • Ed

        Didn’t he have Weaver turn down an extension from the Dodgers in the neighborhood of 4/$40m ?

  • Joltin’ Joe

    This is pure speculation on my end, but I was thinking; the Braves have a few young outfielders, need starting pitchers, and we have some young starters and a decrepit outfield. Gregor Blanco in particular – who had some pretty stellar patience at the plate last year (74 walks vs. 430 ABs, don’t know how many PAs) and is a capable CFer. Sure, he seems pretty weak power-wise, but players with .366 OBPs with solid centerfield defense are tough to find. Would Ian Kennedy for Gregor Blanco be a fair trade, if Atlanta is interested?

    • Mike Pop

      Rather see what Gardner can do man.. Especially since Blanco isnt a definite upgrade over Brett.. Rather keep Kennedy in that case

    • Mike A.

      Sure Blanco drew a ton of walks, but he slugged .309. I think Brett Gardner could fashion the .675 OPS Blanco had last year, and he’d steal way more bases.

      • Joltin’ Joe


        Imagine if I had written an article about this proposal… wow it would have gotten shot down quickly, haha. Thats why I love this site; examine eachothers arguments for fallacy in a constructive fashion.

  • al

    heres a completely off the wall idea.. guarantee cc a dh spot on some off days.. he can hit, hes a lefty, and hes built like ruth.. he may even be a 1st base option.. i know all you guys are going to shoot me down.. but its food for thought…

    • Mike A.

      He’s got a .668 career OPS … keep Matsui in there. I don’t think being able to hit vs not being able to hit will be a deal breaker for CC, and I don’t think a team would want to risk injury to their $20M a yr arm by having him hit when he does have too.

      The Yanks have made it pretty clear that if CC goes somewhere else, he’d be turning down a pretty unprecedented sum of money.

      • al

        i totally respect what you guys say.. but its a thought.. ruth threw 326 innings in 1917.. its a thought.. he could be a hell of a ph or dh..

        • Ben K.

          There is approximately no way the Yankees allow the man who they would be paying $140 million over six years to anchor their rotation to bat ever outside of interleague play. It just wouldn’t happen. Ruth made pennies compared what Sabathia stands to make and no one is going to gamble on that contract.

      • al

        im just talking when the 7 year offer doesnt work out.. he wont be another pavano.. hes a BIG lefty who can hit.. and field.. its an option..

    • Ed

      After what happened to Wang this year, there’s no chance in hell that would happen. If they even considered it, I’m sure Hank would start screaming at everyone he could find…

      • al

        and won 24 games..

  • christopher

    If you were Sabathia’s agent and wanted to get the most money you could, wouldnt it seem to be beneficial to leak rumors that CC want to stay in the west and play for an NL team. How else can you get the yankees to make such a hih opening bid.

    the next step is to have the Angels make a 130 million dollar offer and conviently leak that so the yankees will raise their offer even further.

    this mau all be true, or this agent may be a genious who is exploiting an existing rumor which brilliantly

  • Bill M.

    Go to 6/175. He would never turn that down. We have money to spend this year and we NEED a No. 1 starter!