Saturday night open thread: No Lowe

Must be the money
Yanks seemingly rule out Sheets

So based on this post at the Central Maine Sports Blog, ESPN reporter Jerry Crasnick no longer considers the Yanks in the running for Derek Lowe. What a shock.

Interestingly enough, with the Yanks out of the picture, rumors about the Red Sox’s interest have dried up as well. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Lowe wind up in Boston, but I don’t think the Red Sox are as concerned with Lowe as they were with the Yanks in on him. After all, Theo is the one who let him go in the first place. Crasnick sees Queens as the likely destination for Lowe.

Anyway, that’s about it for Yankee news tonight. Use this thread as your Saturday night open thread. Anything goes; just play nice.

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Must be the money
Yanks seemingly rule out Sheets
  • Ivan

    No surprise there. Yanks were either signing Lowe or Burnett not both and of course picked Burnett.

    I will say this, despite the fact I wasn’t a supporter of the Burnett signing and not a Burnett fan, I rather give Burnett the big contract than Derek Lowe. Lowe is overrated and is not even that much better than Pettitte. Burnett, I gotta be fair has the upside to live up to the enormous contract and has the stuff to be a front-line pitcher if not an ace.

    CC
    Wang
    Burnett
    Joba
    Pettitte/Hughes/IPK/Aceves?

    Not a bad rotation.

    • K.B.D.

      I agree in part. It goes without saying that you need to get to the playoffs before you can think about them, but in a short series, I’d much rather have Burnett going than Lowe. Of course, he needs to be healthy in October to do that.

    • MrAwesome

      OK, for the last time – JOBA IS THE 5TH STARTER, NOT THE 4TH. He threw 100 innings last year, and is on a strict innings limit, so he needs to be #5 so he can be skipped, and they’ll still need to get creative to limit his innings to 130-140.

      We need Pettitte for 1 year, and let Hughes spend some time at AAA at the start of the season, and then come up and fill in when a starter gets injured (which will happen).

      Hughes will be full time MLB ready next year, and Pettitte will be gone.

      • Jack

        OK, for the last time – JOBA IS THE 5TH STARTER, NOT THE 4TH.

        Why is that so important to you?

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

        You’re arguing a stupid technicality, and considering that your post was deleted earlier today for a reason, you probably shouldn’t even be shouting “for the last time” when you personally have never argued it for the first time.

      • pat

        MrAwesome: FAIL

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Mr. Awesome = not awesome

      • Will

        Anyone who calls themselves Mr. Awesome must be a douchebag! Do us all a favor and become a red sox fan! You will blend in and we won’t have to claim you anymore. Red Sox nation is aggessively seeking applications for more “like minded individuals.” To round out their douchebaggery!!

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Burnett, I gotta be fair has the upside to live up to the enormous contract and has the stuff to be a front-line pitcher if not an ace.

      Burnett has upside that, for all intents and purposes, he’s never truly lived up to.
      Lowe does not have upside, but he’s been the better pitcher both across the length of his career as well as over the past couple of seasons.

      And yes, I know that Burnett K’s a bunch of guys and he’s younger and all that… but even for all these K’s, he’s just not been a dominant pitcher. This deal is ALL based on upside. We’re hoping that Burnett’s going to put it all together and pitch like a frontline starter (which he really hasn’t) in addition to staying healthy.

      I’m going to hope for the best, but I can’t say that I agree with this decision. If you’re lining up Burnett, Lowe, and Sheets and putting aside all injury concerns, and simply looking at who’s the best pitcher, the list goes #1-Sheets, #2-Lowe, and #3-Burnett.

      And then, add in that Burnett does have significant injury concerns and is also the most expensive of the three and the one requiring the longest contract of the three…

      I think we made a mistake.

  • Joey H

    Besides he is 6’9”, what is there to know about Dellin Betances?

    • Manimal
      • Joey H

        thanks.

      • E-ROC

        Wow, I didn’t know EJ moved away from MVN.com.

        • E-ROC

          OK, nevermind.

        • http://poormansanalyst.wordpress.com/ dan

          That profile is from 2006.

          • Joey H

            Ok then what is there to know now?

            • pat

              everything is better, better control, better break on the offspeed pitches, the change is very good but very inconsistent, put on like 25 lbs since he started. He used to be terrible at controlling the running game but got better during 07. Drastically cut down on walks the 2nd half of the season.

              • pat

                *got better during 08

              • Joey H

                How about his weight? Put on and Muscle?I know that was a concern early on.

  • Manimal

    What is CC’s repertoire?

    • Joey H

      Fastball 94-98 10-4 slider at 84-86 mph. 12-5 curve at 79-82.

      • Joey H

        10-4 and 12-5 is the movement just incase you didn’t know.

        • Manimal

          my dad asked me what kind of pitches he had and I realized that even I didn’t know. Thanks.

          • Joey H

            Any time.

      • Chris

        He’s also got a change-up, but I’m not sure the quality of it.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      What is CC’s repertoire?

      Chicken, steak, chicken-fried-steak, hamhocks, greens, tacos, enchiladas, pork chops, donuts, pancakes, bacon, sausage, waffles, sandwiches, fatback, clam chowder, beans and rice, sushi, filet mignon, cheese…

  • Sweet Dick Willie

    just play nice

    #@!*%#! I like it better when Joe babysits. He lets us fight.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      We can go out to international waters. You can do anything there. That’s where they had the Tyson-Secretariat fight, “The Slaughter in the Water”.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

        Look at those poor saps back on land with their laws and ethics! They’ll never know the simple joys of a monkey knife fight.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Furious George!?!? Oh, you’re not pretty anymore!!!

          • K.B.D.

            Smithers, this Monkey is going to need 90% of your skin.

      • LiveFromNY

        I was there. Front row dinghy.

  • David

    Thank god. Lowe sucked the last time he was in the al east. And he is asking for far more than he is worth.

    • Joey H

      In a short series in the postseason I’d rather throw Burnett out there.

      • David

        I’d rather throw Burnett out there in any game.

    • http://poormansanalyst.wordpress.com/ dan

      Last time he was in the AL east was 2004

      • David

        So what. He’s 4 years older now. Not likely he’s better. Moving from the nl west to al east is akin to moving from AAAA to real major league baseball.

  • Brian

    I think the Phillies will make a run at Lowe.

  • kenthadley

    how about Daniel Cabrera as a # 5?

    • David

      No. He’s awful except for once a year when he pitched against us. Living in the Baltimore area I can tell you he is a horrible pitcher.

    • Ivan

      Why would you want Daniel Cabrera who’s basically a project as a 5th starter? If that’s the case, you might as well use Hughes, IPK or Aceves.

      • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

        Agree. Either slot someone in who has some experience and can give you good innings (i.e. Pettitte) or go with the kids.

    • Mark B

      How about a dude named Phillip Hughes instead?!?

    • http://www.freewebs.com/ps3tf2/ Double-J

      I wouldn’t mind picking him up as a fixer-upper/project, he does have some nice stuff, but he has to figure out how to get it somewhere in the relative area of the strike zone, or some suitable facsimile thereof.

      • K.B.D.

        I think the guy is WAY overdue on a move to the bullpen where they can cut him down to 2 pitches and he can actually figure out how to control them. Unless he’ll take reliever money on a minor-league deal I don’t see a place for him and I’m willing to bet he’ll want a major league contract as a starter.

        • Brian

          I’m sure he’ll take whatever he can get.

  • Reggie C.

    I wonder how Boras is going to spin the mrket collapse around Lowe. With the yanks out of the picture (un-officially), Lowe isn’t going to draw those 16/17 million per year offers.

    I think Lowe still gets his 4 years but at lower money than we all thought. Minaya would do well jump in on the game.

  • nady222214@yahoo.com

    Any one know when 09 ticket packages go on sale at yankees.com

    • pat

      no but i do know whos getting a shitload more viagra and internet porn emails

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

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      To: nady222214@yahoo.com
      Subject: URGENT, PLEASE HELP.

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      This letter may come to you as a surprise but I really prayed to God to help me choose somebody that will be my true partner. My name is Augusto Nandu Savimbi. I am the first son of Mr. Jonas Savinbi, the leader of the UNITA movement in Angola. May be you know that my father was killed recently in Angola by the Angola Government soldiers and has been buried. Two weeks before he died (May be he know he will die) he called me and showed me a box containing US$ 35 million and some Diamond value about US$18 million. He send the box to a security company overseas in one country in the West, for safe keeping with a false name. He give me the certificate of deposit and the code number. With that I collect the box anytime I want. Now I want because my father is dead and I need the money to take care of my family left behind of about five wives and twenty five children. I am now hiding as the government of Angola look for me to kill and also the former commanders of my father want to get me also. I have to be careful of my movement that is why I need your help to get the box and keep it until I can escape and meet you and you help me invest the money in your country or where it is good.

      • http://liberalmusings.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

        haha LOL

      • LiveFromNY

        My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

  • Matt

    The only thing i dont like about having hughes, ipk, or aceves in the rotation is if someone does go down then were going to have 3 rookies in the roataion

    • Ivan

      technically, Joba, Hughes and IPK are not rookies anymore except Aceves and he’s about 26 years old.

      • K.B.D.

        Bah, beat me to it.

    • K.B.D.

      Hughes and IPK aren’t rookies anymore. Neither is Joba if you’re referring to him as one. The only possible situation we start a rookie in the rotation is if Aceves is slotted there.

      • Matt

        If you wanna go technical then yes your right.
        How 3 pitchers that dont have much major leauge starting pitching experience

        • K.B.D.

          How are they supposed to get major league starting pitching experience unless they start at the major league level? Its gotta happen sometime and it might just be because somebody gets injured. That’s why you try to develop arms.

  • Steve

    Yanks Rule Out Sheets

    “They have ruled out going after oft-injured Ben Sheets, someone familiar with their plans said, because of too many “red flags.” Instead, they will await a decision from Andy Pettitte.

    The Yankees, who had hoped to sign Pettitte or Sheets to round out their starting rotation, have decided that Pettitte would be a better fit. Sheets did make 31 starts in 2008, going 13-9 with a 3.09 ERA for the Brewers, but injuries kept him from topping 160 innings between 2005 and 2007.

    Another advantage of signing Pettitte instead of Sheets is that Pettitte will require just a one-year contract.

    Also a Yankees official with knowledge of the meeting between Cashman and Pettitte on Thursday said:

    “They just had a good meeting and [Pettitte’s] thinking about things.”

    It’s probably the much smarter move to go with Pettitte over Sheets in this case. With a rotation that has A.J. Burnett (injury-prone) and Joba Chamberlain (innings limit) in it it’s good to have someone who has thrown 200 or more innings in 10 of his 14 major league seasons. They need an innings eater.

    It also may have been smarter if the Yankees went with Sheets over Burnett, but that’s a conversation for another day. ”

    http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....?track=rss

    I can’t see TWO injury prone starters in the rotation. We’ll see what happens with Andy, but if that falls through maybe they revisit Peavy, or just go with one of the kids. Either way I’m happy.

    • K.B.D.

      There isn’t a need to trade for Peavy after the acquisition of CC. The price would be far too high when he’d be lining up as a #2 or #3. It doesn’t make any sense.

      Sorry I posted it twice, didn’t attach it to the correct thread.

    • Joey H

      Yep, factor in Pettitte getting a full off-season of workouts and not PED drama, I think He’ll be better.

  • K.B.D.

    There isn’t a need to trade for Peavy after the acquisition of CC. The price would be far too high when he’d be lining up as a #2 or #3. It doesn’t make any sense.

    • Joey H

      But I salivate over the idea of a CC AJ WANG PEAVY JOBA/Pettitte rotation

    • Steve

      Can’t have too much pitching, and since his market is so weak right now I think he can be had for a reasonable package.

      CC
      Wang
      Peavy
      Burnett
      Joba

      Might be the best top to bottom starting 5 in the history of the Yankees. I can’t think of a better one. That’s a rotation that will devour the American league, and blows away the BoSox and Rays.

      • K.B.D.

        What is reasonable? Hughes, Jackson + others? Unless the price has come down a bunch I don’t see a deal without at least those 2 and if we’re suddenly willing to move them AFTER we acquired a #1, why didn’t we trade them for Johan last year? Doesn’t make any sense.

        • Joey H

          We should wait, See how much the price comes down because it is bound to.

          • Steve H

            If the price comes down, he’ll still want to stay in the NL. The Cubs will still have what they offered. The Braves will still have lost out on Burnett and have a need for a starter. The odds of him coming to NY are astronomical. It ain’t happenin

            • Joey H

              I’ve said that since before the Yankees got AJ. I’ve been saying “PEAVY ISN’T COMING TO NY” it seems on almost every thread. Just go look. But nothing surprises me anymore.

              • Steve

                So because you’ve been saying that the rest of us can’t discuss this?

                • Joey H

                  How do you even get that perception? What I’m saying is that I agree with you. I don’t think he lands in the Bronx.

        • VO

          In definately would not take that much as the Padres GM has said Hughes would not have to be in the deal.

        • Steve

          Towers has been quoted saying Hughes would not be necessary. So I’m thinking IPK/A-Jax+ as a package that gets it done. Add a reliever and maybe a catcher like Cervelli.

          It blows away the quantity over quality crap the Cubs were trying to do.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          List of untouchables in the Peavy trade:

          Cano, Joba, Hughes, Jackson, Melancon, Montero, Brackman.

          I refuse to part with Austin Jackson, a young, cost controlled CF of the future that we need desperately, for Jake Peavy, a damn good pitcher and unquestionably a better player than Austin Jackson but a player nonetheless that we don’t NEED, merely WANT. Ditto Mark Melancon, for identical reasons. I know starters are more important than closers and I know that Peavy is better than Melancon, but Melancon fills a future NEED and Peavy is merely a present WANT.

          Needs are more important than wants.

          If Towers will accept a package built around Kennedy, Betances, or McAllister, fine. But I will not move Peavy for any of those seven players.

          • Joey H

            “a future NEED and a present WANT.” Please use that line more often because that is the truest thing out there.

          • Steve

            Betances? Towers won’t want him because he’s too risky and the Yanks won’t give him up because his ceiling is so high.

            Dellin’s actually the perfect Yankee prospect. If he figures it out, he’s a pillar of multiple championship teams. If not, its just a little wasted money. The Yanks are all about championships.

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              I’m not saying I want to move Betances. I want to keep him. But he, along with IPK and McAllister, are the best three prospects I’d make available in a Peavy deal. He’s damn good, but not untouchable.

          • Old Ranger

            Add Cervelli to the list, we need him as a back-up in case Posada can’t make it all the way back…Molina and Cervelli would be it. It seems as though some do not understand the difference between Want and Need…thanks for helping to clear it up. Nice post. 27/09.

  • Steve

    Richard Neer had an interesting thought this morning. Why not drop the idea of signing a 5th starter, and take that money and go after a hitter? Tex would be perfect, and you’d have to consider Manny as well.

    I’m not big on bringing Manny in. He still has friends in Washington Heights and that could be a disaster. Also, as much as I’d like to tweak the Red Sox he’s really not a fit here, unless you dump Damon and/or Matsui.

    Tex makes plenty of sense to me. We’re looking at adding two guys who strike out a bunch (Swisher+Cameron) and Gardner could well be a third. You need a pure #3 hitter on this team, right now we don’t have one. Tex fits that bill perfectly, and he’s a switch hitter to boot.

    • steve (different one)

      you can’t just say “let’s save the $10M on Pettitte instead get $180M Mark Teixeira”

      the two are just not related at all.

      the Angels are already at 8 years and what is believed to be $160M for Teixeira. it’s likely he tops $180M.

      Neer’s argument makes more sense if we were talking about spending $60M on Lowe. but it sounds like it’s down to Pettitte.

      • Steve

        It was more like “Instead of spending 15 per on Sheets or Pettitte, go with one of the kids as your 5th starter and spend a little more (per year) and upgrade your lineup”

        Which makes perfect sense.

        • Joey H

          I agree with the Steve in which I am replying to.

        • steve (different one)

          Pettitte is a one year contract. Teixeira will be an 8 year contract.

          the decisions simply don’t hinge upon each other.

          in other words, if the Yankees were willing to commit $180M to Mark Teixeira, they would do it whether or not they sign Pettitte for $10M or go with Phil Hughes.

          there is no “Pettitte vs. Teixeira” decision. it’s a strawman argument.

          it’s like going into a car dealership and they just keep stretching the length of your loan until you get the monthly payment you want.

          it’s fuzzy math.

          $180M =/= $10M.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Richard Neer had an interesting thought this morning. Why not drop the idea of signing a 5th starter, and take that money and go after a hitter? Tex would be perfect, and you’d have to consider Manny as well.

      I agree with Neer.

      However, if I was Hank/Hal, I’d add in Andy’s 10M AND go add a bat, but then again, it isn’t my money. But yes, if it’s an either/or situation, I’d add one of the Tex/Manny/Dunn troika and eschew Andy (or any other pitching acqusition).

      CC-Wang-Joba-Burnett-the kids is good enough to go to war with. Pettitte would be nice, but only if he doesn’t prevent us from adding offense.

      I’m not big on bringing Manny in. He still has friends in Washington Heights and that could be a disaster.

      You can’t be serious. The reason you’re against bringing Manny in is that he’s from Washington Heights? Really? That’s a joke, right?

      • pat

        *Domincans from the Washington Heights barrio are 23% more shiftless than their mainland counterparts

        *All statistics courtesy of Diamondcutters

        • Steve

          Racist.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Wait, are you seriously calling pat a racist? His comment was made in jest (in jest of your comment).

            Your comment, that Manny having friends in Washington Heights could be a “disaster” was WAY more racist than pat’s joke was.

            • pat

              what he said

            • Steve

              No, I wasn’t being serious. And there was absolutely NOTHING racist about what I said about Manny. He has a long track record of playing lackadaisical baseball and faking injuries, that has nothing to do with the ethnicity of his background, it has to do wiuth his character (or lack thereof) as a professional baseball player.

              You injected race into my comments about Manny, not me. Apparently you have something of a hangup about this stuff, and that’s unfortunate. But it has nothing to do with me, or what I said.

              • pat

                Your insinuation that Manny hanging with his friends from Washington heights, a predominately Dominican neighborhood, being a potential disaster is rife with racial undertones. If you honestly don’t think that is the case then I must be mistaken. I’m done with this subject.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  Precisely. If you seriously don’t think that “He still has friends in Washington Heights and that could be a disaster.” has absolutely no racial overtones, you’re deluding yourself.

      • Steve

        No, because Manny’s a goofball and I’m worried about him hanging out all night 81 games a year.

        Ask Darryl Strawberry about what returning to LA did to his baseball career. Some guys can handle playing in their hometown, some can’t. Manny has a long rap sheet playing in towns where he didn’t know anybody, he doesn’t need any extra distractions. Its tough enough getting him to stop faking injuries and show up every day without him being out all night.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Ask Darryl Strawberry about what returning to LA did to his baseball career. Some guys can handle playing in their hometown, some can’t.

          Darryl Strawberry was a raging cokehead. They have cocaine here in NYC as well. I’m quite certain he would have flamed out in exactly the same way had he never gone back to LA.

          Bad comp.

          Manny has a long rap sheet playing in towns where he didn’t know anybody, he doesn’t need any extra distractions.

          Please back up this allegation with something.

          • Steve

            -Quit on his team after the Yankee sweep in late 2006

            -The Last Straw July 6, 2008 – Manny was called in to pinch-hit, in the top of the ninth inning of a tied game at Yankee Stadium. Mariano Rivera threw three consecutive fastballs past Manny, without so much as a swing. “I was kind of surprised, definitely, that he never took the bat off his shoulder,” Rivera said. “I don’t know what he was thinking. That’s Manny.” Manny asked to be left off the starting lineup for the important Yankee series, citing knee pains. Upon completion of the series, Red Sox management ordered MRIs for both of Manny’s knees, in hopes of eliciting some truth from a tense situation. The MRIs came back clean. The latest episode became one of the most incendiary moments to fuel the unrest of Fenway’s faithful. This became arguably the last straw that led Red Sox nation to demand the deportation of number 24

            -Faked a knee injury in 2008, forgot which knee he hurt

            -August 24, 2005 – Ramirez, up with one out and the bases loaded, hit a ground ball but did not run down the first base line, resulting in an inning-ending double play. The Kansas City Royals rallied to tie the game, and eventually won in extra innings

            -Later in the season, during the series with the Houston Astros, Ramirez had a physical altercation with Red Sox traveling secretary Jack McCormick. The two were arguing over Ramirez’s large game-day request for 16 tickets to the game in Houston, when Ramirez reportedly threw McCormick to the ground after saying “Just do your fucking job.”

            -September 1, 2003 – Manny refused to pinch hit in a game against Philadelphia, angering manager Grady Little, who benched him the next game.[39]

            -July 21, 2004 – From his spot in left-center field, Manny inexplicably made a diving play to cut off a relay throw from center fielder Johnny Damon, allowing David Newhan of the Orioles to score on an inside-the-park home run

            -August 30, 2003 – Manny missed several games with pharyngitis amid media speculation that he was well enough to play. When the New York Yankees came to town to play, Manny was still too sick to play, but was seen at the downstairs bar of his hotel with former Yankees player and close friend Enrique Wilson.[38]

            -On July 25, (2008) after sitting out one game against the Seattle Mariners with a sore knee, Ramirez was originally slated to start against the Yankees. Several minutes before the game, however, he informed manager Terry Francona, through a bench coach, that he would not be playing. When back in action, Ramirez frequently did not run out ground balls.

            -On June 5th, during a game at Fenway against the Tampa Bay Rays, an altercation between Manny Ramirez and Kevin Youkilis resulted from Ramirez objecting to what he believed was excessive – and chronic – complaining about the strike zone by Youkilis in the dugout, as well as the first baseman’s penchant for throwing equipment after at-bats. Before the fifth inning – and after the Red Sox-Rays punching session – Ramirez was caught on NESN cameras slapping Youkilis.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manny_Ramirez

            Are we pretending Manny’s a model citizen all of a sudden?

            • Steve H

              Red Sox 1919-2000. 0 World Series Titles

              2001 Red Sox sign Manny Ramirez.

              2004-Red Sox win first title in 86 years
              2007-Red Sox win 2nd title in 3 years

              Manny Ramirez is the best player on both of these teams. Manny Ramirez’s antics do not stop his teams from winning baseball games. In 14 full seasons, Manny Ramirez’s teams have made the playoffs 10 times, with Manny Ramirez being a HUGE part of all 10 teams.

            • pat

              manny’s july when he “quit on the team”

              347 .473 .587 1.060

              • Steve H

                And he played more games than David Ortiz, Mike Lowell and JD Drew. If that’s a quitter, give me 9 of those guys.

              • Steve

                Manny Ramirez mid August-September 2006

                0 ABs .000 BA .000 OBP 0 HRs 0 RBIs

                • Steve H

                  They can’t all be Cal Ripken.

                  And it’s amazing how that brought down that Red Sox team to where they couldn’t come back the next year and win a title. Oh yeah, they did.

                • pat

                  2006? WTF?

        • Steve H

          Darryl was a cokehead. Manny is not. I don’t know if Manny even drinks. Huge difference between these two.

          • Steve

            Darryl also cared about winning and was a much better teammate than Manny will ever be. The only person Darryl ever hurt was himself, the same can’t be said for Manny.

            • Steve H

              And how does that translate to the baseball field? Simple. Manny Ramirez is 10x the player Darryl Strawberry was, and does more to help his teams win. Great teammates are teammates that help you win.

              • Steve

                Let me guess, you wanted Barry Bonds last off season.

                • Steve H

                  If we had room for a DH I’d take him this offseason. I don’t want choir boys, I want baseball players. Manny and Bonds aren’t abusing drugs, they don’t beat women, they don’t get DWI’s, they don’t shoot themselves, they don’t witness murders and get charged. I’ll take them both.

                • Steve

                  Bond’s isn’t abusing drugs? Are you serious?

                  BTW-I’m glad you’re not our GM. I like having guys who I can actually root for on the team. Rooting for Bonds would make me (and many other Yankee fans) want to take a shower.

                • Steve H

                  Ok. He’s not abusing drugs that have a negative effect on his performance. Hence, his drug taking was in an effort to help his team win. I’d take him over a cokehead all day. What if Joba had killed someone when he got his DWI? Would you root for him? Did you root for Giambi?

    • keith

      You can’t really “take the money” from not signing Pettitte and use it on Teixeira. 10-12million vs 180-200million. While it would be great to get him, it’s not that easy.

      • Steve

        Per year.

        • keith

          I understand that, but the whole point is the risk/lack of flexibility that comes with a contract that large. Andy Pettitte @ 1 year 10million doesn’t prohibit the team from making other moves in the future, perhaps Holliday next year when Damon, Matsui and Nady are all free agents. Signing Teix does.

    • Paulie

      I agree 100%, I know the emphasis is on pitching but do we really need to sign another pitcher for the neumber 5 spot? Instead we could have the 5 spot contested all season by the youngsters (Hughes, Kennedy, Aceves and even Dan Geise) and sign Mark Teixeira.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

        The problem with that, as many on this thread have noted, is that it’s not just the money this year. You can’t just say “forget Cameron and Pettitte, let’s use that $20 million for Teixeira.” The Yankees have financial projects we simply don’t have access to. That’s a lot of money to commit going forward.

    • VO

      It is a much better idea i believe to go after a hitter, because if you have CC, Burnett, Wang, and Joba you dont really need an outstanding 5th starter itd be nice but not necessary especially if we signed TEX

  • Manimal

    You think Milwaulkee would want matsui for Cameron? Thats the only way I could see the yankees getting Manny.

    • Steve H

      I don’t see any NL team trading for Matsui. Absolute best case scenario he can play the OF, but an NL team isn’t going to take that chance. I still think Seattle may be the best fit, but probably still a longshot, and we wouldn’t get much in return.

      • VO

        Matsui For Felix Hernandez! I wish.

        • K.B.D.

          ARE YOU SERIOUS? No way Matsui for Felix Hernandex. Jesus.

          Seattle has to throw in a little more than that to get Matsui.

          • VO

            Hernandez is like there most prized possesion 22 years old succsesful power pitcher they wouldnt give him up for anything.

            • K.B.D.

              If you couldn’t tell…

              I was kidding.

              • VO

                my bad its hard to tell if someone is kidding over the comment bords

                • K.B.D.

                  I figured the absurdity of Seattle having to throw in a prospect in addition to King Felix to land Matsui was enough to send it into humor. But alas…

            • Steve

              King Felix will be a free agent at the tender age of 26.

              Yikes. Imagine the deal a guy like him will get with his stuff at that age.

              • Steve

                BTW-That’s the same year CC has his opt-out, just in case you were wondering.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  King Felix will be a free agent at the tender age of 26.
                  Yikes. Imagine the deal a guy like him will get with his stuff at that age.
                  BTW-That’s the same year CC has his opt-out, just in case you were wondering.

                  http://www.gearsandwidgets.com.....dgoing.jpg

    • Joey H

      Wow. That’s interesting, but I would say absolutely not, The whole idea of the trade is to get cheaper and younger.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      You think Milwaulkee would want matsui for Cameron?

      Nope. Not remotely, not at all.

      Thats the only way I could see the yankees getting Manny.

      Wait, that’s not accurate. If you’re saying that the only way we get Manny is if we unload Matsui, I’ll agree with you. But, Milwaukee is not the only team that would take Matsui (in fact, they’d never take him)… but other teams would take him.

      So you’re not exactly saying the right thing.

    • K.B.D.

      Matsui has like negative trade value considering his contract, his defensive shortcomings and his 2 recent knee surgeries.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

        If by negative value you mean that we couldn’t possibly get back what Matsui could bring to the lineup in 2009, you are correct.

        • K.B.D.

          Exactly. Any MLB piece we trade him for isn’t going to approach his production and any prospect we get back would probably be a C+/B- guy (which is optimistic) which we don’t need. It’d basically be a salary dump.

          • Steve H

            A salary dump in which the other team would make the Yankees pay the majority of his salary, so even that part wouldn’t work.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

        Adam Eaton, now HE has negative trade value.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          He’s a great candidate to be the second guy in MLB history to be traded for himself in one of those PTBNL deals…

  • bill

    I am just curious if the Mets sign Lowe and another outfielder there payroll should be at 160 Million.

    When is the New York Sportwriters example John Harper and Ken Davidoff of Newsday who never thinks the mets make a bad trade going to write how the Mets payroll is so much higher than anybody in the National League.

    • Joey H

      Wasn’t it said they want to keep the payroll under 145? Don’t quote me but I’ve heard that a few times.

      • Steve

        After all the money Sterling Enterprises just lost to Madoff’s Ponzi scam (200-300 mil) I would think the Wilpons would like to keep the payroll to about . . . . lets see . . . . major league minimum x 25 . . . . 10 million bucks for the next two years.

  • Joey H

    So we know Ben wants Manny, How about you Joe? What do people put our chances of signing him at?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

      I’ve been on the record as saying I want Manny, but it’s complicated.

      Adding Pettitte and Cameron makes the 2009 team more balanced. You have pretty much proven guys (or high upside guys like Cano) in the lineup and you have a solid if not stellar one through five in the rotation.

      If you add Manny, you have the best heart of the order in the bigs, plus you still have one of the best tops of the rotation. That lineup could bludgeon teams into submission.

      If we’re going to add a bat, I say it be Manny. But I’m not exactly opposed to the balanced method.

      • Joey H

        It’s actually a really good idea aside from his shenanigans. Give someone else(a kid) a chance instead of Pettitte, Get a sick heart of the order and a sick top of the rotation as you said. I’m warming up to the idea.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          The next guy who says “Shenanigans” is gonna get pistolwhipped!

          • K.B.D.

            Hey Farva, whats the name of that place with all the shit on the walls and mozzarella sticks?

            • Officer Rod Farva

              You mean Shenanigans?

              • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                This… was awesome.

          • Joey H

            Yeah….

      • K.B.D.

        My problem with Manny is the contract length. If its 2-3 years, sure. Anything more and I think it’s a deal we shouldn’t make, despite it’s immediate impact.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        If the choice is between Pettitte+Cameron and Manny, it’s Manny every day of the week and twice on rain-delay induced doubleheaders.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

          If you can get him at 2 years and $50 million, I think you gotta do it. Short term, scary heart of the order, still a top-tier rotation.

          If he wants 3 years, things get more complicated. This is why I’m not high on Tex. I’d rather not commit another diamond position for the next eight or so years.

          • Steve

            In his case, its a very safe bet. Tex stays in great shape, is much more athletic than Giambi ever was in his prime and should age much better.

            Just because it was a bad idea with Giambi doesn’t make it a bad idea with Tex. Did you have a similar problem with the A-Rod 10 year deal? Because A-Rod and Tex are very similar in their commitment to staying in shape. Also, Tex is 28 so even an 8 year deal only takes him to 36, 2 years younger than Giambi is today at the end of his deal.

          • greg

            Manny, by no stretch of the imagination, is worth $25 million a year.
            http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....he-market/

  • Joey H

    Where does Melancon start this year? Possible bullpen to start the year?

    • K.B.D.

      I’d say AAA unless he absolutely dominates during ST. It’s just that ST means nothing in the long run, ask LaTroy. He’ll probably be up after the all-star break though. He’s forced the Yanks to move him through the system despite their intention not to before.

      • Manimal

        I think it was Traber who had a 0.00 ERA in spring training and he started in AAA. It sucked for him but he got his chance. I doubt he is up to start the season, maybe May.

        • greg

          I think Traber started on the team. Patterson was the one with the 0.00 ERA, who started in AAA.

          • VO

            yea patterson was the one who got jacked of a spot even though he was dominent

        • Manimal

          YEAH patterson, my bad guys.

  • Alex S

    what do you guys think about carl crawford next year after johnny damon leaves? leadoff man who can steal a ton of bases. what kind of money would he demand? do the rays have an option on him?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

      $10 million 2010 option. Not sure what the Rays will do with it. He had a down year and they picked up his $8.25 million option for 2009. I have a feeling that they’ll pick up his option if he plays well.

    • Joey H

      He has an option.

      • Steve

        He’s also not a classic leadoff man. Career OBP around .330. Hasn’t scored 100 Runs since 2005. I dunno, I think he’s one of those guys who we drool over when he plays the slow footed Yanks, buit you look at his baseball card and its not what you expected.

        http://www.baseball-reference......ca02.shtml

        • K.B.D.

          Kind of unfair remark about the runs when he had 89 and 93 in 2006 and 2007 (respectively) on a team that ranked last in the AL in runs scored in 2006 and 8 out of 14 in the AL in 2007. Finally, the year his team gets their offensive act together, 2008, he gets hurt.

          In 2005-2007, he had a OPS+ of 113, a nice number for a leadoff hitter. Meanwhile, his OBP had risen every year until this one when he had an abbreviated season due to injury. Crawford is trending upwards and I think will be a very productive player for a number more years and I’d be all for getting him.

          • Steve

            You may be right. For some reason I always thought he was 29, turns out he’s 26.

        • Steve H

          I honestly think that he’s somewhat overrated due to his status as a fantasy player. Most leagues don’t include OBP and SLUG, but do include hard to come by categories of SB’s and 3B’s. I agree, Crawford is somewhat overrated.

  • Pedro(from Brazil)

    Don’t we have Matsui and Damon ( and Nady too, if i’m not mistake) leaving next year??? Why can’t we afford Tex??? That way we can move Swisher to one of the corners and look for another corner in the free agent next year or by trade ( assuming that Gardner can be our center field ).

    Don’t be made with me it’s just a question..heheheh

    • Joey H

      I doubt Nady is going anywhere even thought he is a FA. Unless he has an awful year.

      • http://liberalmusings.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

        Yeah but he’ll require 4/60 or something if he has a great year–equal to or better than last year’s, possible b/c it’s a contract year–and I wouldn’t give it to him at age 30 breaking out randomly. Would you?

        • greg

          I think Nady is the type of player you take the two picks and move on from, he’s not a championship caliber player.

          • Steve

            I wouldn’t get down on him for the 2nd half he had with us last year. He’s always been a fast starter, and has tended to fade in the 2nd half of most seasons. Probably just needs to stay in better shape, and there are guys on this team who can help him with that.

            I still like Nady.

          • Steve H

            What defines a championship caliber player? There are plenty of players who have won championships, and been integral parts of championship teams who are worse players than Nady. I just don’t get the term “championship caliber player”

            • pat

              Luis Sojo- Championship player
              Alex Rodriguez- Not

              • Steve

                Ted Williams didn’t have any rings either.

                Ted Williams=not a championship player

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  Bernie Williams, 4 rings = championship player
                  Don Mattingly, 0 rings = not a championship player

                • pat

                  OH NO YOU DI’INT

            • Steve

              Xavier Nady age 29 (first season w/Yanks)

              25 HRs 97 RBIs .305/.357.510

              Paul O’Niell age 30 (first season w/Yanks)

              20 HR’s 75 RBIs .311/.367/.504

              I guess Paulie wasn’t a championship caliber player either.

              This the mentality that has got us into trouble in recent years, the notion that we need an all star at every position. Look at the championship team rosters, they had great rotations, great bullpen and good, solid all around position players.

              The sum was greater than the parts.

              • Ryan S.

                Nady did much better in the NL than he did as a Yankee last year (he had a .320 OBP with us). Still I like the guy and I’d imagine he does serviceable. I’d honestly give him the chance to bat 3rd in front of A-Rod and see how he does. Ideally Cano will fill the 3 hole sooner rather than later, but until he proves himself, I think Nady is our best bet.

                • Steve

                  He always does better in the first half.

                • Ryan S.

                  If Nady always starts better in the first half, all the better to use him as a stop gap until (hopefully), Cano proves he is worthy of that spot. I personally think Cano is a perfect fit for that spot in the lineup when he is the doubles hitting maniac that he shows he can be. I’m banking on the combination of his poor 2008 season giving him more focus in the future and his tweaked batting stance tightening up his mechanics significantly. Then Nady could go into the a much more appropriate spot as a 7 or 8 hitter, where he’d be a major asset.

          • http://liberalmusings.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

            100% agreed

    • Steve

      What part of Brazil you from, Pete?

  • pat

    The departed is on any chance of getting work done tonight is shot to shit.

  • buddy the elf

    I just heard that the yankees might pursue Barry Bonds as a DH

    • Steve

      Bastard.

    • Steve H

      Well if true, and our goal is to, you know, win, it would be a great signing. If we’re trying to win the heart of Bud Selig or a nobel peace price, not so much.

      • Steve

        I think these two are just busting our balls.

        I say we get even with them.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

          These two? Same person. Jeff, Tim, Buddy the Elf. Fuck, I hate people who do this shit.

      • jeff

        wait i actuall remember reading about this. ill try to find the link

        • Steve H

          Is it from 1992 when he was first a free agent?

      • whozat

        Frankly, if they were going to sign Barry, they’d have done it when their offense was anemic last season. Now…He’s been out of baseball for a year, and they already have a DH with balky knees.

        If Matsui goes down, and they want to pursue Bonds in like…June, sure. But, right now…I think their roster slots are at too much of a premium to spend one on another DH.

        • Ryan S.

          I’d say at this point in Barry’s career, all steroid stuff aside, I’d rather just give Juan Miranda a chance over him, let alone someone like Adam Dunn at a comparable price.

  • tim

    yo i just heard that too. i think it would be a good signing

    • pat

      link-arooski?

  • X-Man(Angel)

    Any love for Willy TAveras?

    • Steve H

      No. Brett Gardner’s worst effort will be as good as Taveras’ best. He’s absolutely terrible. He’s fast, but not a baseball player. Might as well get Usain Bolt.

  • Pingback: Yanks seemingly rule out Sheets | River Avenue Blues

  • CMC

    Any predictions of how Gardener will hit next year? If he is indeed the starter…

    • pat

      .296 .414 .422 in 94 games at AAA. He didn’t show much power or anything really in his first stint in the majors which is pretty much par for the course. His strength is drawing walks, getting on base at a good clip .389 career, and wreaking havoc on the basepaths. he showed alot more promise in his second trip to the majors hitting about .306 with a .373 OBP. Traditionally he has been a slow starter at each level he has risen to, most likely because his strength, drawing walks, does not easily transfer between levels. IMO with his exceptional defense he could be a productive #9 hitter if he hits like .250 and gets on base at maybe a .330 ish rate. With his speed hitting in front of damon and jeter he could score 80 or 90 runs while stealing 50 or 60 bases.

      • Old Ranger

        Thank you Pat…
        Been saying that all winter but, I see him going; .265+/.350+OBP. 2nd time around seems to be the key with this guy. The tweak in his hitting stance (using the lower half) has him getting more gap power (more 2 and 3 base hits). Only on the right team (or situation) will he be a lead-off hitter…one can hope he improves enough to take Johnny’s place. 27/09.

  • Balls Deep

    Gardner is an afterthought. Not enough pitching! Joba can’t start the whole season; can’t rely on Hughes/Kennedy (please, please see 2008)… Lowe, has a rubber arm and can pitch in big spots; he’s the best of the rest. If Andy can’t take $12-13Million, tell him take his “i want to be a Yankee” crap back to Texas. Speaking of Texeira; need him… with the $$ they dropped this year in salary, it’s not a big jump to get Lowe/Sheets and Texeira…That big bat will make ARod freaking huge.

    • Ryan S.

      There is no way the Yankees are spending any more money on big pitching contracts – the Yankees are out of the running for both Sheets and Lowe. Eventually Pettitte is going to come to his senses and that that 1 year / $10 million contract. As for another bat, Mike Cameron will probably get traded for Melky and give us someone who is at least dependable, and won’t take anything away from us defensively either. Looks to me as if the organization is putting their faith into guys like Posada, Matsui, Cano, Swisher, and X-Man being worthy of everyday roles and significant run producers.

  • Balls Deep

    Adding another pitcher and big bat (Manny/Texeira) will keep payroll @ the same if maybe a few million more than 2008 payroll. Why not? Cameron strikes out way too much for me, Yanks have Swisher for that now. Rather see Melky and Cano go to KC for Zack Greinke and then get Orlando Hudson.

    • Mike Pop

      I really hope this guy is not being serious.. Have you read any of Cash’s cpmments concerning payroll ? He wants it lower..Those 2 dont net Greinke either

      • Balls Deep

        I’m serious, I’m also have just a little less pull in the $$ department than Cashman and I’m not on staff… If Hank the Bank wants to spend the $$, and he promised he would spend $$ and he has not let anyone down yet; that payroll will be @ the same or maybe a little higher… not $20Mil higher but reasonable, as much as $5Million or so can be deemed reaonable.

        Cano/Melky and AA pitcher = Greinke. Cano is 1 season removed from AllWorld Future and Melky is lower level starter, which would fit KC.

        • Mike Pop

          Does not net Greinke

          • Balls Deep

            Definitely nets Greinke. He’s still midlevel not premiere starter and with Yankees, he’s 17 game winner.

  • Pedro(from Brazil)

    Sorry Steve….I only readed your post today… I wrote that post yesterday at 1:30 a.m Brazil time so i went to sleep after….I’m from RIO DE JANEIRO!!!

  • MO from the OC

    Yankees to Pursue Manny, Texiera.
    http://www.nypost.com/seven/12.....144124.htm