Dec
14
Yanks shedding salary
ByPicking up on Buster Olney’s argument is Ken Rosenthal. He notes that, while the Yanks have spent a lot of money so far, they’re still shedding payroll. With all the money coming off the books this year, the Yanks very well could sign another big-ticket player, and if that player ends up being Mark Teixeira or Manny Ramirez, I won’t be disappointed.
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I don’t think be disappointed either…but I would be surprised.
Ben, you are aware of Manny’s defensive value, right? It’s a legitimate concern and has to be more than an anecdote when figuring his value.
I hear they have this thing in the AL where the player’s only job is to hit.
Also, there’s no way you can convince me that Manny’s defense fair outweighs his .320/.400/.600 potential. I know his defense isn’t great, but his offense makes up for it.
Bring in Manny to DH. If all he had to focus on was offense, look out. The guy is a tireless worker when it comes to hitting, and if you said “Manny, all you have to do is swing the bat 4 or 5 times a game” he’d love it. It may involve selling very low on Matsui, but what Manny would bring to this offense behind A-Rod would be immense. I like Tex and Dunn, and they bring different things to the table, but they are not Manny when it comes to hitting.
can they actually manage to trade Matsui?
I mean, if they can, then Manny would be great at DH. But I don’t know if Matsui’s moveable
Who cares? Manny >>>>> Matsui. Therefore, the Yanks should go after Manny and deal with Matsui after the fact.
I’m just saying… they’d have to move Matsui afterwards. That shouldn’t get in the way of signing Manny, though
This is being awfully shortsighted.
How’s that? Matsui’s only going to DH this year, and his presence on the roster shouldn’t preclude the Yanks from getting better if they can and want to. He doesn’t deserve a spot on the lineup just because.
So with Manny as the full-time DH you want Matsui on the bench all the time, purely a pinch-hitter. Not exactly the best use of resources.
No, I think he recommended to trade him if we signed Manny.
Yeah but youre talking about spending a ton for a position we already have filled. If there was a shortstop a little better than Jeter right now on the free agent market would you be advocating going out and signing that player to a long term deal?
Also, I don’t buy in everyone’s assumption that Manny is >>>>>>>>>>>> Matsui either. Sure, he tore it up last year because of the whole Boston/LA soap opera but lets look at some numbers:
A – .296/.388/.493
B- .299/.398/.529
C – .285/.367/.488
A is Manny’s 2007, B is his stats in the 100 games he spent with Boston last season and C is Matsui’s 2007. If he is healthy, yes Manny is still better, but is it worth signing Manny to a mega-deal and then just eating Matsui’s 13 mil? Hellllllll no. Come on now.
I agree with your thoughts, but it should be noted that Manny’s ’07 is probably his worst year since he broke into the bigs. Outside of that he’s good for a .525 SLG and a .400 OBP every year.
A-Rod and Manny batting back to back would be quite the spectacle. I’m almost tempted to prefer getting Manny over Tex, simply because we have enough mega-contracts on our has as it is. Is there any way we can trade away Matsui at a steep discount (we’d eat most of his contract) to make some room for him?
In that regard, Manny would be the better pickup than Tex… the man’s offensive is sick. But I’m not sure Matsui is very moveable… he has a NTC, right?
Yea he does but dont you think he’d be willing to move rather then sit the bench, thats if we get many to dh. Im all for this move and I think we’d be able to move matsui and gettin something at least marginal by eating alot of his contract
I was thinking about it out the other day and (assuming Cameron and Pettite) and factoring arbitration cases the Yankees are sitting just a tic below 200 as it is.
To get either of these guys they would have to drastically increase payroll above last years mark, and then next year have almost no wiggle room to replace Matsui and Damon.
We arn’t going to sign either of them.
the Yankees have said they want to add at least one impact bat, and if they miss out on Teixeira, they’d go heavily after Manny
with the astronomical revenues coming in this off-season, they aren’t going to restrict themselves payroll wise
the Yankees have said they want to add at least one impact bat, and if they miss out on Teixeira, they’d go heavily after Manny
link?
wiggle room to replace mats or Damon? since when did the mlb have a salary cap? $$ will not ever be an issue for NYY…we as fans have absolutely no idea how much $$ is available or what NYY will spend. If you want to argue the merits of a player and the contract on a length basis i have no issues but the $$ involved is not a fans concern. Let Cashman and Hal worry about the $$ and wiggle room. The is not the Knicks trying to free up $$ for LeBron or Wade…its the Yankees spending when they need to..if they sign Manny or Tex i don’t see cashman or Hal saying “sh*t we have no wiggle room next year when Damon and mats leave….want to sign a cheap fill in?”
Manny is not worse in the field than Damon is at this point in his career. I would bet he is better than Matsui is now, and I do not care what stat you show me there is no way that Abreu the last year or two was any reasonable amount better.
Manny could DH most of the time and could still play RF if need be.
Problem I have with Tex is that he is all around good player he is not the crushing force that Manny is in big games and that 7 to 10 year contract NO THANK YOU SIR.
We get Manny, Manny gets a hair cut. Red Sox or Angels get Tex. I am good.
you have got to be kidding me. Manny has never even been an average fielder, and Damon is still an average to above average left fielder. That is an absurd statement. I don’t think you could find one scout or anyone in any baseball organization to agree with that sentiment.
I second this.
That was absolutely insane.
I 3rd this, but I caution. If everyone who agrees with greg’s post replies, we might blow up the servers. Damon could take Manny’s glove and play right-handed and be a considerably better outfield than Manny. That’s not even an exaggeration.
Manny can play avg D and there wont be a hitter nearly as good anytime soon t go get AND matsui and damon both only have 1 yr…GET MANNY go to 3yrs if u have to but no more
“Manny is not worse in the field than Damon is at this point in his career”
Joke? I mean I love Manny and wouldn’t mind him on the Yankees one bit, but Damon is a better fielder.
Runs above Average by PMR:
Damon: 4.61
Manny: -4.29
Fielding Runs Above Replacement/Average:
Damon: 15 FRAR, 2 FRAA
Manny: 5 FRAR w/Boston, 7 FRAR w/LA, -1FRAA w/Boston, 2 FRAA w/LA
UZR:
Damon (LF only): 8.4
Manny (LF only): -4.8
So, yeah, Manny’s not a better fielder. Better hitter by far, though.
Good points but DonnieBaseball up there doesn’t believe that stats exist. His only objective basis for evaluating baseball is the one in his mind that no one else buys into.
Manny is awesome at fielding because he high fived a fan after catching a ball.
Since “DonnieBaseballHallofFame aka they guy who has well documented history of belligerent thickheadedness and anti-intellectual character assassinations says” doesn’t like stats, throw that argument out and go with the “what you see on the field type of analysis”
Johnny Damon is light years better than Manny Ramirez defensively based on what I, and everyone else in the world sees.
Either one please!
Any other thoughts on how they may shed more salary? Nady doesn’t make too much $, so any trade involving him wouldn’t gain a whole lot. There’s probably a market for Damon since he only has a year left, but as our leadoff guy he’s a huge part of our offense. Nobody’s going to take Matsui and his money, so he’s worth more to us than any other team. Nobody in our pen makes a whole lot anymore (thank god Farnsworthless is gone) that you’d trade.
We’re going after Cameron, I think that takes us out of Manny = [
We’ve BEEN going after Cameron, I hardly see this as a roadblock to us pursuing Manny.
I’ll be thrilled out of my mind if the Yankees sign Teixeira
do it Cash
Seriously. Everything bad I have ever said about Cash will go away.
yeah… I’d have to agree with that. I don’t like most of what the man’s done as Yankee GM, but if he manages to bring in Teixeira this off-season, along with C.C. and AJ… GM of the Year to me
thats more like shopper of the month
that would solve a hell of alot of problems…..im with you on that..
Texiera will offer defense for about 5-6 years and then the last 2-3 will be as a DH. Manny has zero defensive value, and forces Damon in center. Damon in center is not good, I know 4 year old girls that throw better than Damon.
Manny would be the DH, a move for him forces Matsui to the bench or if we can flanagle any time of trade (remember, he has a no trade clause).
Also, a move for Cameron doesn’t stop us from getting Manny, especially if he’s willing to take a back-loaded contract.
If Matsui is going to the bench, I’m sure he’d be willing to lift the NTC. We wouldn’t get much in return and wouldn’t get any salary relief, but I’m sure he’d rather play elsewhere than sit on the bench.
Why would Tex have to move to DH. We just had a 37 year old Giambi, who was never even close to a good fielder play 1b for us. So a 34 year old Tex would have to be a DH?
Tex and Manny add comparable value on offense behind A-Rod. Each has a downside. Tex will tie up a lot of money for a long time, potentially compromising roster flexibility down the road (years six and beyond). On the other hand, the switch hitter probably offers the best protection in the line-up. Manny is Manny, sure to become a circus in pinstripes. To me, the shorter commitment (up to three years) to Manny makes more sense. Also, with so many teams evidently in on the Tex bidding, the price would become astronomical.
Manny brings a lot more offensively to the table than Tex. Looks at Tex’s road splits in his career. He’s a .273/.368/.502 hitter on the road and .306/.388/.580 at home.
Manny goes .315/.416/.600 at home.
.314/.406/.587 on the road.
Manny>>>>Tex offensively, and it’s not close.
Why pick the home-road splits as the only basis for the analysis? If you want to do a serious comparison, run through a host of numbers, e.g., performance vs. right-handed vs. left-handed pitching, RSP, Ks per AB, etc. And when your done, add in defense. Then consider whether each player brings it every day and the question of Manny’s attitude. Then weigh age and durability going forward. Any GM has to consider a host of factors — certainly a lot more than home/road splits.
Ok, you said Tex and Manny were comparable on offense. I responded to that. They are not comparable. Tex is significantly better at home than on the road, and despite that, both Manny’s home and road stats are better than Tex’s home stats. Offensively, they are not close.
I might almost prefer manny just because your not then commited for the next 8 to 10 years the yanks have montero in the minors i know that you cant always base your future on hype as hughes has shown us but with texiera first would not be open for a long time and i think montero will be to big to catch and they also have romine who projects to be pretty solid at that position as well. Also I have been thinking about cameron and i dont think it is as bad as an idea as i first did when i heard it yea he is expensive and getting up there in age but even with his stikeouts he still batted comparable to melky yet hit 25 homeruns and 70 rbis to melkys 8 homeruns and 40 or so rbis in only about 40 more at bats cameron did miss first twenty five games due to suspension so 30 homeruns is not out of the question for him
fair points… it can go either way imo. Teixeira’s the better all around player, but Manny, even at 37, might be the best pure hitter in the league, and he’s said he wants to hit 700 homers, so if the Yankees sign him, they could be getting the “Motivated Manny!”, which I’d have no problems with
The other thing I was thinking with manny is maybe being close to his family he may be a little less manny being manny and as you mentioned i think he is a more pure hitter and leaves you with more flexibility in the future
I be thrilled if they go after Tex but they are all but out of the Tex sweepstakes.
Manny is a phenomenal hitter but lets be fair, this team has to get younger, more athletic and better defesively and Manny doesn’t fit any of those qualities. Sure he can DH but also you gotta with the whole “Manny being Manny” crap and etc. I’ll say no to Manny.
As for the shedding Payroll, I agree that the payroll is going down which was Cashman plans. People fail to relize that Cashman plans are coming into place. Cashman didn’t trade for Santano cuz he had a plan and envision the situation he’s in. Cashman wanted to lower payroll, he’s basically done that and Damon and Matsui come off the books after the 09 season as well which can potentially lower the payroll even more, he wanted to save money for the offseason to get pitching rather trade and pay for Santana, he’s done that, and he wanted to keep the young pitchers like Hughes, IPK and of course Joba to be the bridge of the new era and so far he still has Hughes and IPK and has many more talented players in the minors and or course improve the player the development and the farm system.
So far almost everything Cashman has envision is happening piece by piece.
Don’t tell Lombardi or Lupica that though.
This team has a chance to win in 2009 with their pitching. Signing Manny, despite his age gives them a much better chance of winning. So I say sign him either way. If they were signing Manny to just load up on offense and try to outhit everyone it would be one thing, but he’d really be brought in to upgrade a so-so offense on a team with the pitching necessary to win already in place.
Signing Manny as our DH would make us the clear cut favorites to win the World Series, would it not? I couldn’t say the same thing about signing Adam Dunn.
Lupica can kiss my ass. His article in today’s paper was ridiculous in my opinion.
As opposed to his article in the paper every other day?
Lupica has no credibility whats so ever with his articles especially when writing against the yanks. It’s amazing how anti-Yankee his articles are and how he turns the other cheek when other teams do the same shit.
The very fact that cashman hasn’t said we’re out of the running for teixeira makes me believe we are boras’ last call before he signs a deal somewhere
Assuming Manny wants atleast a 3 year deal, I’d rather sign Dunn. Cheaper, younger, more left handed. I know Manny was awesome last season (with a completely unsustainable BABIP), but he and Dunn we’re pretty even in 2007.
Please never, ever compare Manny’s hitting with Dunn’s. Manny is one of the greatest hitters of all time. Dunn, who I like, is not.
Manny’s clearly better but I don’t think signing Dunn instead of him would be egregious or anything. Both players have a similar style of hitting–patient/powerful–but I think Dunn’s relative low cost, relative youth, etc. will be a big draw for the Yankees–or should be at least. Either way, Dunn or Manny (or Tex for that matter), I’m happy.
Its not a matter of legacies, its a matter of whether Dunn’s age 29-31 seasons are a better bet than Manny’s 37-39.
While I do think Manny is better right now than Dunn, not enough people are mentioning the age factor.
Manny’s 37-39 seasons are a better bet than Dunn’s 29-31 seasons.
How pissed would you be if Manny signed for 3 years, $70 million and put up a .296/.398/.493 line while giving up 15 runs in the field?
.388* OBP typo
So you’re pointing out his 2007 season, which was the worst of his career? Not a bad worse season of a career. The average is 20 points below his career average, the obp is 23 points below, and the slugging is 100 points below. So #1 I’d expect him to do better than that. And #2, didn’t he win the World Series that year? And look at what he did in the playoffs.
Well I’m an advocate of signing him as a DH. But a .296/.398/.493 is less than I’d expect from Manny, but I wouldn’t complain. If Dunn and Manny put up identical stats, I’d rather have Manny, he brings a presence to the lineup that Dunn doesn’t. If A-Rod is up with Manny on deck, a pitcher is more worried and A-Rod is bound to get better pitches. I like Dunn, and I would like to sign him, but when it comes to Manny vs. Dunn, I’m Manny all the way.
Manny HAS to be a DH. Damon can’t be a center fielder, and he’s actually a respectable left fielder. If you get Manny, he’s going to totally replace Matsui.
Manny is on a different level as a hitter than Adam Dunn is. Still, Dunn is younger, equally or more consistent, cheaper, and capable of playing first base or a corner OF.
I’d be happy with either option quite honestly.
Dunn would also gety at least 3 years. And Manny is still one of the best pure hitters in baseball. Please
What’s so bad about Dunn getting three years? They’d be his age 29, 30, and 31 seasons. Those are good years to have a hitter like Dunn, especially one as consistent as he is.
Dunn has his strengths, but if you add him to a line-up with A-Rod, Cameron, Posada, and Swisher, you are going to see a lot of rallies die with strike-outs. Indeed, with the improved power arms on the staff, I think you could see the Yankees lead the league in Ks on both offense and defense.
I don’t get the strikeout rally killing argument on Dunn. Juan Pierre never strikes out, yet kills a hell of a lot more rallies than Dunn. Dunn gets on base 40% of the time, that is not rally killing. Rally killing is not getting on base. And when a team is rallying, a strikeout is always better than a DP.
You’d also see a hell of a lot of rallies started by the fact that A-Rod, Posada, Swisher, and Dunn take pitches and walk like it’s going out of style.
And, what Steve H said.
Yo if the Angels lose out on Tex, would they go after Manny Ramirez?
probably because they’d need one impact bat to go with Vlad
If they sign Manny then what does Cashman do with Matsui? They can’t trade Matsui, that’s a fact. The only scenario would be to play Manny in left field, Damon in Center, and Nady in right. And then they’re back to having the worst defense in the league again. Unless you want to trade Nady?
What exactly would you do with the roster after signing Manny, besides dealing with it “after the fact?” I realize Manny’s offense makes up for his bad defense, that’s not what I’m saying. Whatever his offensive value is, you have to take a chunk out of it to account for defense. Counting offense only he might be worth $23+ million, but when you factor in defense there’s no way that number is over $20M. Every run counts somewhere, whether it’s on offense or defense.
This is such a minor issue. There’s one year left on Matsui’s contract. He hasn’t been healthy for a full season since 2005; and he’s a far inferior player to Manny. So maybe you use Matsui as DH on days when Manny plays the field. Maybe you try to trade him for whatever you can get for him. Maybe you use him on the bench.
Why is that roster position such an issue here?
Before this goes any further, how long would you go on a contract?
You’d have to trade Matsui for a bag of baseballs and eat his contract. Manny protects A-Rod like no one else available ever could (besides Tex), and that’s where some of his main value comes from.
To clarify, Matsui is traded far below his true value, Manny is your everyday DH, Damon in left, Cameron or Gardner in center, Nady in right.
and then who is our DH after Girardi slits Manny’s throat in april?
I doubt Girardi will slit the throat of a guy who’s probably hitting .350/.450/.650 at that point.
what if he hits .296/.388/.493?
You point out 1 season, his worst. What if he hits .314/.411/.593? He’s more likely to do that, as the sample size is significantly larger. And in his .296/.388/.493 season he won a world series, and had an awesome playoffs.
i appreciate (and agree) with most of steve h’s points. all in all, i’d be pretty psyched if manny got stuck into the middle of our lineup. one matter that i haven’t heard anybody talk about, however, it the lineup’s sudden tilt toward the right side. trading matsui would only exacerbate the losses of giambi and abreu. it seems to me that the 3 hitter needs to be a left-handed hitter, and none of the existing lefties in the lineup would fill the slot ideally. if we did acquire manny, would he move alex to fifth and slot somebody else (swisher) into the cleanup spot? or, do we just stack up (admitted great) right-handed hitters?
it’s scary how many people on here don’t seem to remember or acknowledge what Manny did in Boston. This guy is selfish and can cause more drama on a team than ARod could ever dream of. He will get boo’d and he will revolt at some point. Girardi will hate him and so will the fans after they see him not run out 30 ground balls in the first year. And then it will impact the effort of players like cano. On top of it the guy is going to be 40 in a few years. What the hell is everyone so excited about? Sign Tex or nothing. Pitching wins, we’ll have plenty of offense with posada and matsui back.
it’s scary how many people on here don’t seem to remember or acknowledge what Manny did in Boston.
I remember 2 World Series in 7 seasons for a team that went 86 years without one. I remember him terrorizing the Yankees. I remember him establishing himself as one of the top 5 RH hitters in baseball history. And I remember a guy who has made the playoffs over 70% of his career, while being an integral part of every single one of those teams, and I remember him being a great playoff performer. Like it or not, the guy wins many more baseball games with his bat than he loses with his antics. I remember him quitting on his team in July 2008 to the tune of .347/.473/.587, while playing more games for that team than David Ortiz, Mike Lowell and JD Drew.
It was just as much Scott Boras as it was Manny Ramirez with that circus last year. Is Manny a mercenary? Yes. Does Manny live on a different planet? Yes. Is Manny a negative clubhouse presence? I’d say not. Especially when he starts racking up the numbers and makes this team as scary offensively as it is with its pitching. The biggest problem Manny Ramirez would bring is that a lot of cry babies would complain about us buying our 27th World Series
While I agree he probably isn’t a negative clubhouse presence, let’s examine. Hypothetically let’s say Manny is the worst teammate ever, and see how that has affected his teams? In 14 full seasons, his teams have made the playoffs 10 times. He’s been to 4 World Series, winning twice. His teams have won 13 of the 21 postseason series they’ve played in. And lest I get a comment about some backup infielder who’s played on winning teams, Manny has been an integral part of ALL of these teams.
Here’s hoping they still make a run at Tex. Sell him on a WS ring or two, and offer him 6-7 years at $25M per. Tell him that allows him to hit free agency one more time, when he’s 35 or 36.
They could trade Matsui for a bag of balls, and the lineup would look something like this (IMHO):
Damon DH/LF
Jeter SS
Tex 1B
A-Rod 3B
Posada C
Nady LF/RF
Cano 2B
Swisher CF/LF/RF/DH
Cameron CF
With four OF, (Cameron, Damon, Nady and Gardner, on the bench,) that gives the Yankees a fresh OF.
Seems like a longshot, but I can still dream, eh?
Better off trading Nady than Matsui if you land Tex. That way you move Swisher into RF, Matsui is your DH still, Tex takes 1B, and you actually can get something in return for Nady since he’ll be rather affordable.
Where do you play Swish in that scenario? Or Damon?
1. Damon – LF
2. Jeter – SS
3. Tex – 1B
4. Rodriguez – 3B
5. Posada – C
6. Cano – 2B
7. Matsui – DH
8. Swisher – RF
9. Cameron/Gardner – CF
Is how I’d go about doing it if we could Tex and traded away Nady.
want to see how the yankees approached an elderly corner OF/DH with loads and loads of baggage –look no further than last season:
Bonds was available for the taking 270/480/565 OPS+ 170
Manny Now 332/430/601 OPS+ 164
they’re both distractions in their own regard, whether it be steroids/being an asshole or the quitting on ur team/manny being manny crap.
for the sake of fairness…ill give manny the edge in that comparison. however, taking in account that Barry offered to play for league minimum 500k and that Manny will like multi years at 23+ …. i dont think that the manny situation will play out any differently for us than Bonds’ did
Manny is 5 or 6 years younger than Barry was a year ago and put up way better #s than what Barry did in 2007 (including more than twice the number of RBIs).
bongs baggage>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>manny’s baggage
hahah
bongsBondsIs Manny being threatened by federal indictment? He’s also considerably younger and healthier.
The Manny being Manny problem is why they need to go after Tex hard…Hank will get Manny if they don’t get him. Hank is insane, remember that, Old School George. Gotta love it though.
If they get Enrique Wilson as Manny coach… Remember Manny once said in SI or something that if there was one person he’d like on a desert island with him, it’d be Enrique and Manny missed that game in Toronto because he was with his best pal Enrique drinking and having a late lunch… Maybe they can control him, nahhhhh.
Hank doesn’t make the decisions. He just yells at the press.
But Hank won’t let Hal make him look stupid… he has some pull.
Not enough to get manny signed against the wishes of cashman and hal.
Hypothetically right? Or have Cash and Hal said they aren’t interested?
They have not said they are out on the manny front, correct. However, if they are really not interested, just the fact that hank wants him would not be enough to get it done.
Ok. I get your point and agree. I just hope that Cash and Hal are interested.
Report on mlb.com indicates the yanks are in on the tex sweepstakes. It also says the price might be to steep.
People don’t realize how much money the yankees will make next year with the new stadium its crazy
I don’t know how much to read into it. The Yankees aren’t going to come out and say they aren’t involved at all. By doing that, it drives up the price for competitors by allowing Boras to leave the Yankees in it. And I’m a big believer in any goodwill towards Boras. If they came out and said they weren’t involved in Tex at all, Boras would be pissed.
I think it’s gonna be back to Yanks not wanting Sox to get him; so the overbid won’t be too much of an issue.
My personal guess is that we’re moving up the price for the competitors on Tex, and its really Manny that we’re planning on snatching up.
Scotty B knows he can call cashman 11th hour with the best offer and we will probably top it.
just Scotty being Scotty?
Exactly. He may be a pain in the ass of owners and fans but the guy is hella good at his job.
I agree with you steve. Dont know exactly how much to read into it, but it is nice to know there is a slight possibility we can get tex. I’d much rather have tex over manny. Plus we need a solid 1st baseman and a #3 hitter. Thats what tex is.
Manny or Tex has to hit in front of ARod, ala Ortiz/Manny… ARod can use the help; Manny could hit anything thrown at him. If making the moves, gotta keep Damon, just because he also keeps the locker room loose and he likes Manny too.
You realize that even though Manny was a great hitter, the Red Sox put him on waivers and NOBODY (including the Yankees) would take him for absolutely nothing. Cashman isn’t going to be signing this guy. Cashman concentrated on giving us a young studly rotation and now look, we have four guys who can go out on any day of the week and shut down an offense (and only one is over 30).
How about we show some patience? Our young guys are in the rotation through 2011 and half are signed cheaply. We also have some young guys that will be coming into their primes in AJax, Cano, Swisher and Gardner. We already have enough old guys that will be on the decline in A-Rod (he won’t go on like this forever), Jeter, and Posada. I’d rather get a guy like Dunn who is in his prime. He’d give us a ton of power and OBP and we can surround him with some young guys like Gardner and AJax who can create some havoc on the basepaths. I definitely see us having about a three year window here where we could just absolutely dominate this league.
Nobody would take him because he had 5 years 106 million dollars left on his contract. The only team who could have conceivably picked him up was the yankees and we traded for arod instead.
So nobody would take him when he was three years younger and signed at a lower AAV but now everybody wants to sign him for a higher AAV? That’s my point.
Ok. And after nobody picked him up, the Sox won the World Series the next year. And then another soon after that.
This isn’t like the Giants where Bonds was the singular reason they went to the WS. The Red Sox were very good both of those seasons. Ortiz was more of a reason they won with all his walkoff homers
So the cleanup hitter, who #1 gave Papi protection in the order, and #2 was/is/always will be a better hitter than Papi wasn’t a big part? Come on.
And to add. With no Manny, they don’t win in 2004 or 2007.
Yeah but they don’t win in 2004 with no Ortiz or with no Schilling and in 2007 with no Beckett or with no Lowell. A team is required to win and I don’t want to see Manny next year just half-assing it because he’s bored now. If he’s willing to sign a one year 30 million dollar contract, sign this guy up.
Ok, but his half assing has led his teams to the playoffs 10 times in 14 years and he has been a huge part of all 10 teams. It has led to 2 titles. His teams are 13-8 in playoff series. The guy is a winning baseball player, despite whatever else he is, he helps his team win baseball games. As a Yankee fan, I want to win games. Hence, I want Manny on my team.
Ortiz was more of a reason they won with all his walkoff homers
That was becuz of Manny
Has there ever been a statistical analysis that shows just how much lineup protection really matters? I mean was Ortiz a better hitter in games Manny was behind him or when Manny was taking a day off? I honestly don’t know but I feel like lineup protection is over-blown
Ortiz himself complained this year that he wasn’t getting nearly as much to hit without Manny behind him. So it, at the very least, can affect a player mentally. But how could it not? If David Ortiz is at the plate and Manny is on deck, the pitcher does not want to walk Ortiz, to put someone on for Manny. So he throws more strikes. The easiest pitch to throw for a strike is a fastball, so Ortiz sees more fastballs. If the pitcher looks over and sees Jason Bay, he’s less worried about putting Ortiz on, because he knows that Bay will do less damage, and he has a better chance of getting Bay out.
I completely realize that it affects guys but how much? I just didn’t know if there was any research done on it to see how much of an impact it makes
Well ortiz was DFA’d in minesota without manny but an MVP candidate/ WS champion with him.
Don’t give Manny all of the credit, you need to leave some credit for HGH and/or steroids.
True pimp true.
Its hard to compare situations 5 years apart. obviously hindsight is 20/20. Ideally we wouldnt have signed matsui for left and picked up manny. At the time though we had just traded for Arod and had Godzilla coming to town.
That’s true but I still don’t see the need right now. I mean Matsui is likely to be a very solid contributer. I guess I’d like to see the team not being just a collection of highly-paid mercenaries. I want guys who play their hearts out and who are also very good.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying we should get Eckstein but I want this team built like we have our rotation right now. The one huge free agent surrounded by a lot of very very good guys. I see A-Rod as being our huge free agent and want to surround him with a bunch of solid guys like Cameron, Matsui, Jeter, Cano, ect. I’m for Dunn because he’d come for much more cheaply, provide solid offense, and not be a constant headache.
Agreed with the team chemistry part. I am just one of those people who think manny would be very motivated to produce and stick it to the sox. I mean watching all those games when he was with boston he looked like one of the most loved guys on the team. I don’t really feel like an argument about weather or not he quit on the team and the fracas with the travelling secretary who may or may not have embarrassed manny in front of the whole team but i think if we were to sign him he would be good manny. It is definately up for discussion and everyone is entitled to his own opinion on “Being” thats just mine.
I think he’d be incredibly motivated for the first year and in games against the Red Sox but what about year two against the Kansas City Royals? A win is a win and every game counts the same in my book
I didn’t mean just against the sox I meant he would be motivated to produce against all teams.He would be especially motivated against boston. But what do i know.. not much.
A win against the Sox is worth more than a win against the Royals, because you are directly competing with them. The Sox and Yankees have been remarkably even in head to head the last few years. That was with the Sox having Manny (who killed us). If instead of going 9-9 against the Sox, we went 11-7 or 12-6, that would have a huge impact on the East race.
on the flip side though steve you go 10-0 against the royals and those games against the sox wont matter as much.
Agreed, though Manny shouldn’t be the difference between us winning and losing against the Royals anyway. Plus you would expect the Sox to play well against the Royals as well right? If the Sox go 9-1 against the Royals, then it’s pretty much a wash. For all of the Manny quitting on his team talk, the guy has played the majority of games in his career and has always produced. Would you rather have a gritty gutty injury prone guy play 100 games, or Manny play 140, while taking a few off here and there, but not sustaining serious injuries?
When do tickets go on sale?
i would really like manny, much more than tex, who wants 8 or so years and would limit future roster flexibility alot more when we have guys who might need to be at first in two/three years, jeter, posada, motero who knows
Manny at DH for three years is a solid solid play
CAN WE TAKE A MINUTE OR TWO TO TALK ABOUT “MANNY’S BAGGAGE” WE’VE REALLY ONLY HEARD IT FROM BOSTON MEDIA, DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THIS GUY REALLY DOES EVEN CARRY BAGGAGE????!!!! AND I BLAME THE SAWX FOR NOT BEING MORE DISCIPLINE WITH HIM SOONER, THEY LET THAT SITUATION BUILD IT WASNT JUST MANNY AND THAT NEVER WOULDA HAPPENED IN NY, NOT EVEN ON THE METS, GO GET THIS GUY CASH
no need to yell chief dont be suprised if this gets deleted.
AND WHILE IM BIG ON ROSTER FLEXIBILITY AND KNOW HE’D BE FILLING THE DH SPOT, HES A SURE THING HOF HITTER YOU DONT REALLY GET A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR GUYS LIKE THAT
WHY ARE CAPS LIKE OFF LIMITS OR SOMETHING? IT REPRESENTS AN ATTEMPT AT PUTTING MORE EPHASIS ON MY WORDS
its also directly addressed in the commenting guidelines
Any comment written out in all capital letters will be deleted. That’s just unnecessary.
Just need to chill out bro. Its a thread who everyone has there own opinions. No need to get angry. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion
It makes you look like a retard. If you point is valid, it will be recognized. This isn’t LoHud, people read your comments and will respond.
sorry if my usage of caps scared u
wont do it again
but on the real, this guy might not even have baggage was my point
Its cool dude, thanks for the recognition. You do have a good point with manny’s baggage. I think if the other joe was still around it would be a much different situation. Girardi doesnt have patience. To much of a risk. Plus when Matsui is healthy, he is very clutch. He now has two good knees and is only dh’ing. I think matsui will be fine. I just dont know having swish, and (cameron, gardner, cabrera) in the same lineup. Two hitters who are not exactly threats in a line-up can be hurtful.
i been sayin it all along sign mannyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy thats a big bat
nobody has said much about the lineup’s increasing tilt toward the right side. losing matsui would only exacerbate this. if we did get manny, would we drop alex to the 5 slot and insert somebody else (swisher?) into the cleanup spot? or, would joe be willing to stack (admittedly great) righty hitters?
I’m all for splitting up righties but show me anybody this side of Rivera who you can bring in from the pen to neutralize Jeter, A-Rod and Manny
exactly.
Manny Ramirez last 3 years:
vs LHP: .326/.451/.575
vs RHP: .313/.408/.570
That’s what $20,000,000+ a year gets you.
General question for you guys. Is Manny the greatest hitter ever never to finish in the top-two for the MVP?
Manny is one of the best hitters in the history of baseball period.
I completely agree and was very surprised to see he’s never even been the runner up for the MVP. Anybody else nearly that good who hasn’t been the runner up at some point in their career?
David Eckstein?
It is very very weird that hes never been in the running for an mvp, you’re right.
I mean this is all rumors though. Tex is coming here, and Manny while his chances of being a yankee is slightly higher than Tex at this point, I doubt he be a yankee.
not too many righty stoppers (or starters) can neutralize those hitters. but, with a lefty stuck in between, other bullpens would be forced, during big games, to go their lefty specialists (who often are below-average pitchers).
Ill take manny or arod vs a teams starter or best reliever over swisher or matsui vs a loogy
matsui is a good hitter
hes just not manny
For comparison,
Hideki Matsui, last 3 years:
vs LHP: .280/.353/.409
vs RHP: .295/.380/.495
BTW, that’s a sample size of 1484 ABs for Manny and 1056 for Matsui during that same time frame.
if your trying to put the best team on the field you have to atleast look at signing Manny
The guy doesnt have baggage but does hate Boston, it will be maybe the biggest crossover since the Babe and will result in #27 and a new curse
does anybody have any idea if manny would want to dh – if he doesnt want to than he would be an absolute cancer. if he does want to dh than we really have to sign him. figure out the outfield with defense being the #1 priority after. with the pitching and the offense we would be getting from dh and infield all the outfield has to do is catch and throw
why not get tex and manny? trade damon and matsui for a bag of balls, forget about cameron. with that lineup gardner/melky would be fine
gardner
jeter
arod
tex
manny
cano
posada
nady
swisher
wang
cc
joba
aj
hughes/aceves/kennedy/pettitte/who cares really?
with the money they are going to be making because of our tax dollars they better spend spend spend
Has no one seen my detailed payroll calcuations? If the Yankees want to reduce payroll from last year, they’re not signing Manny or Teixeira.
Or am I missing something?
Tashard Choice. I bet you his moms name was Tasha and his father was a retard. Hence the first name, Tashard.
[...] on the December 14, 2008 Tags: Hideki Matsui, Manny Ramirez Today, in the comments section of this post at RAB, I got into a little bit of an argument with Ben over Manny Ramirez. The comments by both of [...]
Personally, I love Matsui. I think he is one of the truest baseball players around. And I’d be looking at him as a first base option (considering he said was open to it) rather than trading him away in the event we signed Manny (whom I only would approve of if it was strictly as the DH).
LF – Damon
SS – Jeter
3B – Rodriguez
DH – Ramirez
1B – Matsui
C – Posada
RF – Nady
2B – Cano
CF – Swisher/Gardner/Melky
That would seem to be a better plan than just dropping Matsui.
[...] in the comments to my brief piece on payroll, I got into a debate with long-time RAB fan Dan about Matsui and Manny. I believed that Manny would [...]
[...] and CC Sabathia, many pundits noted that despite these behemoth contracts, the Yankees are actually shedding payroll. Because the contracts for Jason Giambi, Bobby Abreu, Andy Pettitte, Carl Pavano, Mike Mussina, and [...]