Cashman a “second tier” GM


Via BBTF, Chop-n-Change took a stab at ranking baseball’s general managers. Excluding guys who’ve been on the job for less than a year, they anoint Billy Beane, Theo Epstein and Andrew Friendman as the elite GMs, noting their ability to build and sustain winning clubs. Yanks’ GM Brian Cashman falls into the second tier, alongside Mark Shapiro, Kenny Williams, Larry Beinfest and Dave Dombrowski. Brian Cashman’s legacy is a sensitive topic in Yankeeland, as some feel he’s greatly underperforming considering his vast resources, while others praise his patience (ie ability to deal with the Steinbrenners), loyalty, and track record of successful teams. Fun fact: Cashman’s teams have more division titles (9 to 6) and the same number of World Titles (3 to 2) as the First Tier GMs combined.

Categories : Asides


  1. Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

    Mike, have you seen the Torre book? Its all over the news this morning.


    Takes shots at ‘A-Fraud’, Cashman and others.

    • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

      Here’s the Post link, they have the juicy stuff.


    • Joseph P. says:

      I hate media reports of books. They always overblow the actual content.

      • Jay CT... Ben Sheets biggest fan says:

        Buster Olney will be on Spotscenter soon to explain his info on the book.

        • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

          As usual, Onley has Cash on speed dial. Anytime I want to know what Cash is thinking, Onley has it. Be it a trade, free agent, or anything else. His track record and Yankee sources are impeccable.

      • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

        True, but the content is what raises the eyebrow here. A-Rod having a ” ‘Single White Female’ obsession with Jeter” and his teammates referring to him as “A-Fraud”. That’s not hyperbole, those are direct quotes.

        I wonder how Torre’s current players feel about him airing his dirty laundry about his previous players. But I guess that wasn’t a consideration here. It’s all about Joe, and how he feels.

        • Joseph P. says:

          Also, it’s about how the editor decided to lay out the material.

          • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

            Joe, you can’t be serious. These are Torre’s words and its not like he’s unfamiliar with the media or even the book process. He wrote a previous book with the exact same writer, and Verducci has a sterling reputation.

            But I know, I know. Saint Joe can do no wrong. Even when what he’s doing is indefensible. It must be somebody else’s fault.

            • Joseph P. says:

              I’m not laying the blame on anyone else. I haven’t read the book, so I don’t know the content of the book. I’ve worked at a book publisher. I know how much control they have over these projects. I also know that this is a 400-plus page book and that these are just hand-picked anecdotes which will help sell newspapers.

              • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

                “these are just hand-picked anecdotes which will help sell newspapers”

                . . that will help sell BOOKS. The fact that all the local newspapers have this at the same time tells me this was released by the publisher, not leaked by some single source. The fact that they all have the same quotes tells me they were all working off the same copy.

                But again, they didn’t make these quotes up. They are straight from Torre.

            • Jamal G. says:

              Come on, RAB is the one place where you can least expect people to be defenders of the “Four-Rings Club” (well, other than NoMass). I think Joe is saying not to go full bore in judging Joe Torre as a result of these scintillating excerpts from the book because it is being portrayed out of context.

        • the article said that Torre talked about it dispassionately. Saying that people in the clubhouse called A-Rod A-Fraud is different then Torre calling him A-Fraud.

          • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:


            Torre isn’t a Baseball manager, he’s the founder of a Religion. One never to be questioned and that can do no wrong.

            • Joseph P. says:

              Have you read the book, Steve?

              • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

                Have you? Have I ever referenced that I did?

                I’m commenting on the news reports, which cite direct quotes from the book.

                • Joseph P. says:

                  My point is that you’re reading news reports that are written with the intention of selling newspapers, not informing the public about Torre’s book. Without actually reading it cover to cover it’s tough to lay judgment on Torre.

                • Mike Pop says:

                  I have to agree here with Joe, remember we heard that Pujols and others named in the Mitchell Report. Canseco said some things. I’m not saying these are 2 good sources to compare but all of this is to hype it up to make some mula.

  2. John C Smith says:

    Well, Torre doesn’t call him A Fraud. He just reveals he was called that by teammates. As usual the headlines are a lot juicier than the content.

    • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

      How do you think Alex feels about him telling this story?

      Would you put a story like that in a book about a player you liked?

      I know the Torre apologists will try to find any way to make sure nothing is ever Joe’s fault, but this is clearly an attack on Alex. No disputing that, at least not credibly.

      • Sweet Dick Willie says:

        but this is clearly an attack on Alex.

        Since when is stating a true fact an attack?

        Having just read the excerpts and not the book, it sounds like Joe said the players referred to Alex as A-Fraud. At least in the excerpts, Torre didn’t refer to Alex as A-Fraud.

        And the publishers certainly could have insisted on quotes like that. I once read an article quoting DiMaggio as saying that he would agree to working with them on his autobiography as long as he could leave Marilyn out of it. The publishers refused – they wanted the juice, and without it there would be no autobiography.

        • Jay CT... Ben Sheets biggest fan says:

          Stating a fact can be an attack. “Hitler was a nazi, and he forced people to kill thousands of people.” Would you consider that an attack? Compliment? Joe Torre always get a pass. Yes, this is designed to sell books and newspapers. However, Joe shouldn’t be saying it. Its like “what happens in Vegas…”, shit that occurs inside the lockerroom should be off the record, and kept between who sees it.

          • Sweet Dick Willie says:

            “Hitler was a nazi, and he forced people to kill thousands of people.” Would you consider that an attack?

            No, I wouldn’t. How is that an attack? If it weren’t true, then it would be an attack.

            “The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, killing thousands of Americans.” Is that an attack? (no pun intended) No, it is simply stating a fact.

            You have a point in that maybe Torre shouldn’t have revealed it. But then there wouldn’t be a book now would there?

            • Jay CT... Ben Sheets biggest fan says:

              I am simply trying to play devils advocate, but you’re 100% right- no one wants to read a book that is boring. However, its wrong.

              And maybe “attack” is wrong, but it is designed to sway the opinion of someone. Stating something that you know will upset many, even though it is true, is still a form of attack to me.

      • Sweet Dick Willie says:

        How do you think Alex feels about him telling this story?

        If he feels worse about Torre telling the story than he does about they way his team mates feel about him, well then, that certainly does say something about Alex now doesn’t it?

  3. BillyBall says:

    Sorry guys but Theo is not in the first tier. He gets way too much credit. Theo attempted numerous times to trade Manny and put him on waivers even prior to the 04 season. Would they have won without Manny? He also was against the Beckett and Lowell deal that Lucchino and the ownership pushed through. It created a rift. Did they win in 06 because of that deal?

  4. r.w.g. says:

    the 3 First Tier guys have 3 World Series rings combined..?

    Did the Sox win 3 or did Friedman or Beane grab one?

  5. Mike Pop says:

    How is Friedman first tier? That is a little ridiculous to me. They just had their first season of success but he is first tier. I know their future looks good and all but alot of people could have drafted and developed talent over the past 10 years if they had top picks in the draft every year. I think it is a little to early to call him one of the top 3 GM’s in baseball.

    • Jamal G. says:

      Sorry, Mike, but saying, “…alot of people could have drafted and developed talent over the past 10 years if they had top picks in the draft every year…” is a perfect example of perception betraying reality.

      Looking at the thirteen position players who amassed the most AB’s on the 2008 Rays and the the twelve pitchers who amassed the most innings pitched on the same team, we can see just how many players were original, first-round picks of the organization:

      B.J. Upton
      Evan Longoria
      *Matt Garza

      *I included Garza because he was brought into Tampa Bay as a result of a trade that included Delmon Young, a Rays’ first-round pick.

      • Mike Pop says:

        Ya, but he has only had one season of success. Longoria was a huge part of that success. But also look at the players that were huge contributors that he had nothing to do with: Shields, Kazmir, Upton-had nothing to do with Friedman, you could say Crawford had to do with their success. All those players were key parts to their team and Friedman had nothing to do with. He is talented and is a good GM, I just think it is a little premature to call him a top 3 in baseball. If they miss the playoffs next year, he will be back in tier 2 or 3.

        • Jamal G. says:

          He had nothing to do with those players under the title of ‘General Manger’, but he served as the Director of Baseball Development for the two years prior to being promoted as GM.

  6. Rich says:

    Friedman has “their ability to build and sustain winning clubs”? One season above .500 is sustaining?

    • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

      Tell me about it. I’m far more impressed with what Shapiro has consistently done in Cleveland with a bottom third payroll than I am with the Rays.

      • Zack says:

        “Andrew Friendman as the elite GMs, noting their ability to build and sustain winning clubs”

        yeah 1 good season is really elite.
        and billy beane is a joke, he had giambi, tejada, chavez, damon, & zito/mulder/hudson and how many rings did he win?

        • Mike Pop says:

          Eh, I like Beane. What he did back a few years with Oakland was impressive. I would take him over Cashmoney, even though I do love Cashmoney.

          • Zack says:

            “What he did back a few years with Oakland was impressive”

            what did he do? up 2-0 against the yankees and ended up blowing it? or losing to minn in 2002? or losing to the red sox in 2003?o

            • Whitey14 says:

              I think he may have meant taking a low budget, small market club to the playoffs all those years, while his best players kept leaving town to sign elsewhere. It was quite impressive. The fact that those teams blew a few series on the field doesn’t take away from the fact that they kept getting there.

    • Jamal G. says:

      Don’t you think Andrew Friedman deserves all the credit he is getting for what he’s transformed this Tampa Bay franchise into after thirty-eight months at the helm?

      • I think Baseball is such a long term sport that analyzing General Managers in a holistic sense is almost impossible. We need to see how trades work out, how free agents work out. How draft picks work out.

        One of the knocks on Cashman is he stepped in when times were great and won 3 world series rings. People say he was just riding out the groundwork of his predecessor. Well, how long do you have to be a GM before its truly “your team.” I think the canonization of Friedman is premature, but if the Rays continue to be playoff contenders the next 5-6 years, I would say he was (is?) a major success.

      • Jake H says:

        It’s impresive but also remember that they lucked out on a few things. 1. Carlos Pena turning into a monster. 2. The mets just being moronic in their trade of Kazmir. 3. Great trades for Navaro, Edwin Jackson. 4. Their purchasing the japanese player who I can’t think of his name. 5. Their fleecing minnesota of a great defensive ss along with a top notch starter. A lot of that was their ability to draft high each year and then turn those players into highend prospects.

        • Zack says:

          again ONE season doesn’t make you an elite player, if yankee fans called Cano a hall of famer after his 2006 season people would go crazy. lets see Tampa COMPETE for more then 1 year before they get the elite title.

          all you have to do is look at detriot. had that one great year, young pitchers pitched all year, got to the world series, and next season they broke down and look at them now

          • Jake H says:

            It will be interesting to see what they do goin forward. I would be surprised if they didn’t take a step back and then come back strong after next year. They do have some seriously good players in their minors thou.

            • Jay CT... Ben Sheets biggest fan says:

              Its really not fair to say they “lucked out” on some of those things. They can just as easily say they knew Pena had the ability to do this, he just needed to be properly groomed, or everyone could have attempted to trade for Kazmir, or others could have attempted to get in on Edwin Jackson, Navaro, etc… You are basically saying every move they made they got lucky. How about saying, “They make really intellegent baseball moves.” Why not state the BAD moves he has made to prove your point?

  7. Manimal says:

    GM was the official title, but in reality I think it should have been “George’s bitch”.

  8. Januz says:

    I am not shocked that Alex Rodriguez is detested by other players. This guy is a me first individual who has no loyality to anyone. He is showing his “True Colors” playing for the DR in the WBC. The only way to overcome jerks like him, is to have a clubhouse of positive individuals, that will drown out and overcome his negativity off the field, and his lack of clutch play on it.
    As for Torre, I found his book disgusting, and he should thank GOD for Steinbrenner, Cashman, and the Yankees. Keep in mind, he had appeared in a uniform more times than anyone in history WITHOUT being in a World Series, before joining the Yankees. In addition, he will heading to Cooperstown, because of the willingness of the Steinbrenner’s to spent the money necessary, to bring in the talent necessary to win FOUR titles.
    Finally, I was always pro-Torre, now I see him as nothing more than a phony out to make a buck at others expense (Like A-Fraud Rodriguez himself). If this guy was really treated terribly, would announce that “I do not want to go into the Hall Of Fame as a Yankee. I want to go in as a Cardinal or not at all”, and stick to it. Of course, he will change his tune at his Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony, when he goes in as a YANKEE MANAGER.

    • Raf says:

      “He is showing his “True Colors” playing for the DR in the WBC.”

      A-Rod isnt allowed to play for the Dominican Republic even tho he is Dominican?

    • Matt says:

      “This guy is a me first individual who has no loyality to anyone. ”

      Evidenced by what? The fact that he’s really good at baseball and has played for a few teams? What a jerk.

      “He is showing his “True Colors” playing for the DR in the WBC.”

      Yeah, he’s of Dominican descent. His mother wanted him to play for her home country. Those are actually really good colors. It shows he values his family over nationality.

      “The only way to overcome jerks like him, is to have a clubhouse of positive individuals, that will drown out and overcome his negativity off the field, and his lack of clutch play on it.”

      Here’s the funny thing. Plenty of guys have issues off the field–Giambi, Pettitte, Jeter, Damon (he had a pretty messy divorce, no?)…they’ve all had negative things happen but they don’t get magnified nearly as much as Rodriguez’s personal problems do, and that includes PED use from Giambi and Pettitte.

      Year/OPS in High Leverage situations for A-Rod:
      2008: .813
      2007: 1.146
      2006: .867
      2005: .875
      2004: .964

      Man, he sure is terrible in the clutch.

      People who complain about having Alex Rodriguez on the Yankees shouldn’t be allowed to watch games. You have the pleasure of watching a player who will most likely go down as one of the top five human beings to ever pick up a baseball and bat on your team and you’re complaining about it. It’s people like you who give Yankee fans a bad name.

      • Januz says:

        Alex Rodriguez is a rotisserie league player, who will NOT go down as one of the five best players ever. Currently Albert Pujols is better. And these guys are btter historically: Ruth, Gehrig, Dimaggio, Mantle (18 World Series Home Runs). There are FIVE right there. Question: Does ANYONE rank him over Willie Mays?

        • Matt says:

          Alex Rodriguez may end up with 800 home runs. Think about that. Seriously think about it. Yes, he will be a top 5 player by the end of his career.

          If you don’t want Rodriguez on the Yankees, who do you want to play third instead? Scotty B? Aaron Boone? Drew Henson? Eric Duncan? Please.

          What the hell do you mean he’s a “rotisserie leauge player?” Yeah, he puts up fantastic numbers. You know why? He’s the second best player in baseball right now.

          • Jay CT... Ben Sheets biggest fan says:

            Seriously Januz, what the hell? Players are jealous of his contract, which he got because of his gaudy numbers, which are because of him being ONE OF THE BEST PLAYERS EVER. How is that even in doubt? What would you consider a guy who finishes with like 800 homeruns, along with solid defense, and overall strong numbers in all other batting categories?

            • Whitey14 says:

              I’d probably end up calling him one of the five best players ever. But not one of the five best human beings to ever play the game. Then again, that could be called into question of a lot of baseball’s all time greats. Many of them were notorius gamblers, alcoholics and womanizers. By many accounts Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams were both douchebags, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t great players.

    • Sweet Dick Willie says:

      This guy is a me first individual who has no loyality (sic) to anyone

      Okay, I’m going to defend Januz here.

      To back up that statement, you need only ask his team mates what they think of Alex. As Torre pointed out, some of them refer to him as A-Fraud.

      That doesn’t take anything away from him as a baseball player. When his career is over, his stats will be among the best ever produced. But that fact doesn’t prove that he isn’t a “me first” player.

  9. [...] Ex-Yankee manager Joe Torre has a new tell-all book coming out on February 3rd, and apparently he didn’t hold anything back. “The Yankee Years” apparently reveals that Alex Rodriguez was known as “A-Fraud” in the clubhouse, and that Torre felt betrayed by members of the front office when his tenure came to an end. When Torre was let go, I remember talking to friends about how Torre would make a killing if he published a book about his time in pinstripes, and it sure looks like he felt the same way. This one’s a must read. (h/t Artist formerly known as ‘The’ Steve) [...]

  10. LeftyLarry says:

    Cashman has all the assets in the world and has made grievous errors over and over again.
    He’s no Theo Epstein.
    He’s mundane, average at best and frankly should never have been given the job in the first place.
    All that being said, it appears he’s learning and this off season has been very, very good.
    This off season, he’s done a nice job.

    • Zack says:

      IF Theo Epstein had full control earlier the Red Sox would have NEVER won the WS in 2004. He was refusing to give up Hanley for Becket/Lowell.

      • Jamal G. says:

        Which was/still is the smart move.

        • Zack says:

          Trading for Beckett/Lowell was the smart move? Nobody disagrees with that, they won teh series so of coures it was the right move

          • Jamal G. says:

            No, refusing to trade Hanley Ramirez in a package for those to was/still is the smart move.

            • Zack says:

              HA, that’s a joke. You think you would have had 2 rings without Beckett and WS MVP Lowell? The “smart move” = the move that wins you a championship.

              • Jamal G. says:

                Right now, if you were in the Boston Front Office, would you not be salivating at the thought of trading Josh Beckett, Mike Lowell and the equivalent of 2006 Guillermo Mota for Hanley Ramirez, Anibal Sanchez and Harvey Garcia?

                • Jay CT... Ben Sheets biggest fan says:

                  Hey Zack- They didn’t win in 2004 with Beckett. They got had Schilling, Pedro, Lowe, Arroyo in 2004 you retard. So he would have that title with or without Beckett

                • Joseph P. says:

                  Dammit Jay. Watch the personal insults. I hate having to do this.

                • Zack says:

                  Yeah my bad, but still how did the red sox got those players?
                  Bought Manny, Bought Damon, traded for Schilling, traded for Cabrera. The same things the Yankees did in the 90s, they had homegrown, free agents and trades to build a WS team.

                • Jay CT... Ben Sheets biggest fan says:

                  Sorry Joe. I shouldn’t have attacked him, but the guy wasn’t even saying a true statement. I wasn’t saying his opinion was wrong, but his statement was factually incorrect, and it pisses me off when people start arguements when they are wrong.

                • Jay CT... Ben Sheets biggest fan says:

                  And my apologies Zach. Didn’t mean to call you a retard

          • Joseph P. says:

            “I will repeated this point again until I get hoarse: A mistake is not something to be determined after the fact but in light of the information until that point.”

            • Jamal G. says:

              Which is why I believe that one of the biggest misconceptions in baseball is that Brian Sabean made one of the worst trades in MLB history when he pulled the trigger on the Francisco Liriano-A.J. Pierzynski deal.

              • Mike A. says:

                Word. The only big leaguer he gave up in the deal was Joe Nathan, who was a good – but certainly not as great as his is now – reliever. Boof was a middling, back-end SP prospect that was just about ML ready, and Liriano was coming off two seasons sut short by shoulder injuries. And he still hasn’t shown he can stay healthy.

                Everything went right for the Twins in that deal.

              • Zack says:

                If the Giants won the WS then no it wouldnt have been a bad trade because it led to their ultimate goal.
                The Hanley for Beckett/Lowell trade led to 2 championships, different outcomes so yes different perceptions

              • Januz says:

                That is not close to an all-time bad trade. Randy Johnson for Mark Langston might qualify as it.

            • pete says:

              agreed. a responsible GM would never want to give up a player of ramirez’s caliber for a mildly injury prone starter who had yet to fully prove himself and an aging mediocre third baseman, let alone through in a talented pitching prospect. Shortstop is going to be a hole for the sox for a long time, and there was no way to know that Beckett or especially Lowell would have been as valuable as they were in 2007. Plus that’s one year. 10+ years of a franchise player at the hardest position for low-draft-picking clubs to develop > off and on production that led to a World Series ring, at least for a GM. Like many have said, a GM’s responsibility is to put out a consistently successfull product, not search for postseason heroes, as much as that may be to the chagrin of yankees and sox (and presumably other) fans.

              • Zack says:

                a responsible GM for a competitive team makes trades that gives his team the best opportunity to win the WS.

                “Shortstop is going to be a hole for the sox for a long time, and there was no way to know that Beckett or especially Lowell would have been as valuable as they were in 2007″

                With their “hole” at SS they won 2 WS.
                Beckett was dominant in the 03 playoffs, he was a power arm with no major injury histroy 9just blister)

    • Let's Talk About TEX Baby says:

      “2nd tier” is actually pretty generous for Cashman. Sure we all think Tex and CC will help, but throwing money at problems can’t really be considered brilliant decision-making. It’s hard to think of a single move that Cashman’s made, since maybe David Justice in 2000 that was an out-of-the-box addition that required a lot of creativity.

      On the flip side, the money that Cashman’s thrown away, especially on pitching would have buried most organizations. Most GM’s can’t literally flush 45 mil down the drain on Kei Igawa and keep their jobs. The list goes on of course from Jaret Wright to Kevin Brown to Sterling Hitchcock. It’s true that some of these weren’t all Cashman’s decision but still, since he’s gotten “full control” things haven’t improved that much.

      I give credit to Cashman for being patient with prospects the last few years, but at times this patience has been stubbon as in the Santana situation. Sure now he can look back and say we were waiting for Sabathia, but at the time he had no way of knowing that CC wouldn’t sign an extension with the Indians or with a team he got traded to. Plus Santana didnt require a 7-year contract and would have probably put us in the playoffs last year, or at least in the race in September.

      If Cashman had started his career with any team other than the Yankees he’d be long fired and out of baseball by now. Most GM’s around the league are pretty awful as well, with a few exceptions, but this guy has not done a good job.

  11. [...] we can avoid this discussion in the ensuing comment thread. The important point, I think, (and as ‘The’ Steve pointed out) I wonder how his current players feel about him publicly slamming a former [...]

  12. So much for the idea that January is a slow newsmonth….

  13. pete says:

    Every GM out there has made good and bad moves, mostly b/c nobody can predict the future, no matter how well statistics are analyzed. Also, every GM has some advantages and some handicaps; for example, Cashman has lots of money to spend, but never gets high draft picks and is not given the flexibility to go through a rebuilding stage. I think giving these circumstances, cashman’s ability to continually put together a good team (last year was not an exception, but rather an abberition – if a team’s two most talented starters along with its catcher and DH all go down with injury, winning 89 games in baseball’s best division ought to be considered a success) is commendable, though unexceptional. He has, however, through this sustained success, been able to garner the trust from the Steinbrenners to pursue his own vision of his team, which so far has been exceptionally executed. He has put together a team that is not only significantly better than last years (and on paper arguably the best in baseball), but also has a core that is made up of some of baseball’s best players either in or entering their primes. He has been criticized for the terms of the Burnett deal, accused of desperation when the situation really didn’t call for it. In my opinion, however, 5 years for Burnett was actually a very wise decision: with the stuff he has, even if it diminishes a bit by the end of his contract, he should still have no problem getting people out when healthy. Plus, with a five year deal, the chances of him having success are increased because a single major injury, or several minor ones, will not render the contract a total waste because in all likelihood he’ll have at least one or two complete healthy seasons, and probably won’t have more than one total dudd. Two out of three would be bad, but four out of five would deffinitely be a success.

  14. AndrewYF says:

    These kinds of rankings are dumb. What happens if by this time next year, the Rays have badly stumbled and Price doesn’t live up to expectations, the Red Sox finished out of the playoffs and Pedroia and/or Youkilis regress significantly, Beane’s fire-sold Oakland team sucks again, and the Giants win 93 games? The list will turn upside-down, for no good reason other than it’s completely reliant on “what have you done for me lately”.

  15. ortforshort says:

    You have to agree with Beane and Epstein as top GM’s. The results speak for themselves. I’d also throw in Walt Jocketty, who moved from the Cards to the Reds not too long ago. Several outstanding tier 1 GM’s have retired recently, making this list wide open: Terry Ryan of the Twins; John Schuerholtz of the Braves; Pat Gillick of the Phillies and Bill Stoneman of the Angels. I don’t rank Cashman anywhere near any of these guys. On the other hand, Cashman did improve his stock tremendously lately by having the good judgement and balls to go out and sign Sabathia, Burnett and Teixeira.
    As far as the Torre book. We all know A-Rod is a space cadet. It looks like Torre figured out that Cashman was two-faced in his dealings with Joe with Joe thinking that Cashman had his back while Cashman obviously wanted Girardi all along.

    • Zack says:

      “You have to agree with Beane and Epstein as top GM’s. The results speak for themselves.”

      what results are you speaking of? Beane never won a WS and Epstein’s WS team had the highest payroll for a WS winner ever.
      The Angels guy won 89+games for 7 out of the lat 8 games and only have 1 WS, they won 100 games this year and what happened? if that was Cashman he’d be killed

      • Whitey14 says:

        Zack, you’re making the argument favor Epstein more so than Cashman by pointing out his “highest payroll for a World Series winner ever” because it just reminds folks that Cashman’s had several payrolls higher than the Sox did for either of their titles without winning in recent years.

        It doesn’t take brains to decide you want ARod, or Sabathia on your team, it just takes resources. Where’s the skill in that? Cashman, Epstein, etc. are difficult to judge because they have so much money to play with.

        • Zack says:

          My Theo comments have nothing to do with Cashman, people act like he built some club up from nothing with no payroll. People always say Cashman took over a team he didnt build and all the talent was there, yet Theo took over a team that was in 2nd place for 6 years, winning 90+games 4 of those years and he’s a genius.

          And the biggest addition to the team (Beckett/Lowell) that are teh reasons they won 2 WS he wanted nothing to do with it. So I’m saying lets just be fair when talking about GMs.

          And Billy Beane had Zito/Mulder/Hudson for 7 years, along with Giambi, Tejada, Dye, Damon, Chavez. And have nothing to show for it but a book.

    • Old Ranger says:

      I have to disagree with your last paragraph…
      Gms are the boss of a team, if he tells a mgr. to play or puts restrictions on a player, the mgr. obays, or he is gone.
      Joe T. thought he was the boss and wouldn’t follow the directives sent to him by Cash.

  16. BillyBall says:


    Not sure what flavor cool aid you are drinking but to sit here and say all Yankee fans should be honored to watched A-Fraud play and that he is clutch is the most retarded statement of the year. His numbers are just that, numbers that add up at the end of the year to look good, but watch him day in and day out and you see how he struggles in big time spots consistently throughout his Yankee career with one exception. 2007 was one of the best offensive seasons I have ever seen. But than the playoffs came and with that A-fraud left. He is the most frustrating player to watch and that is the truth. If I could trade him for David wright and that minor league OF who the Mets are high on I would do it in a second. I know I wouldn’t get the same production over the next 4-5 yrs but Wright is 7 yrs younger and it would be more fun watching the Yankees be the blue collar hard playing no excuse team that we love. Get rid of A-rod and watch the Yankees win! I truley believe the Cash was against the signing but Hank stepped in and decided it was the best move financially for the team so they gave him a 10 year deal blowing everyone out of the water after he just embarrassed them by opting out. As far as him playing for the Dominican, that’s fine, no problem her. I’m American and want to win so where better off!

    p.s. If I was a Major Leaguer which I am not I would play for one country even though my ancestry goes back to two countries which I love dearly. I’m an American, born here and this is my country. A-Rod is also American born here and he choose to play for another country. If Joe Dimaggio in 1956 during the World Cup that never existed played for Italy how pissed would you have been?

    • Zack says:

      Mike Piazza played for Italy in 2006, do you hate him now?

      • Zack says:

        atleast ARod lived in the DR for 3 years growing up, Piazza grew up in the middle of Pennsylvania

        • Zack says:

          Matt Garza was born and grew up in mid California, he’s on the Mexican roster, is he unAmerican now?

          • Zack says:

            Ronnie Belliard was born in the Bronx but was on the DR roster. Should I go on or have i made my point?

            • Zack says:

              Adrian Gonzalez was born in San Diego but played for Mexico.
              Alex Rios was born in Alabama, played for PR in 2006.

              So you’re whole Dimaggio scenario is just, stop making a big deal out of it because its not, its a stupid exhibition tournament. as long as he stays healthy who cares who he plays for.

              • Joseph P. says:

                I said it in the next post:

                “It will continue to fuel the fire of those who dislike Alex for his personality, and will ignite a spark in those who defend him for his baseball skills.”

                That’s all this is.

                • Zack says:

                  Anything Arod does sparks a fire, he goes to starbucks “oh he thinks hes better then us getting his fancy coffee”, he wears a nice suite, “oh hes showing off in this horrible economic time”, come on no matter what ARod does it adds fuel to the fire. if he does charity, “hes just doing it to get his name in the paper”

    • Matt says:

      “A-Rod is also American born here and he choose to play for another country. If Joe Dimaggio in 1956 during the World Cup that never existed played for Italy how pissed would you have been?”

      Well, not at all. My Italian-American background aside, I don’t give a fuck what country someone plays for. We can’t choose where we’re born. Nationality is just a stupid social construction that doesn’t matter at the end of the day.

      He chose to play for another country because a) he can under the rules and b) his mother wanted him too. If my mother was born in another country and wanted me to play for that team and I was allowed to, I would in a heartbeat. My mother means more to me than my country does. If your country means more to you than your family does, then you need to re-think your priorities.

      “Not sure what flavor cool aid you are drinking but to sit here and say all Yankee fans should be honored to watched A-Fraud play and that he is clutch is the most retarded statement of the year.”

      Except I have actual numbers to back it up and you have…well, nothing.

      “His numbers are just that, numbers that add up at the end of the year to look good, but watch him day in and day out and you see how he struggles in big time spots consistently throughout his Yankee career with one exception.”

      If they add up to something good, doesn’t that mean he did well? Your logic is horribly flawed.

      I guess you missed when he absolutely raked in the 04 playoffs and out hit his teammates in 2007?

      “If I could trade him for David wright and that minor league OF who the Mets are high on I would do it in a second. ”


      “Get rid of A-rod and watch the Yankees win! ”

      Or lose because they’d be getting rid of the second best offensive player in baseball and a decent defender. Who would you have rather had playing third for the Yankees since ’04? Because I guarantee you the Yankees would not be nearly the team they are without Rodriguez.

  17. Zack says:

    John Schuerholtz had a rotation of Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux and had 10+ division titles and 1 WS? Again, if Cashman doesnt win 1 year in a row he gets killed

  18. ortforshort says:

    Cashman hasn’t won 8 years in a row and he’s still living. Any of the guys I mentioned in my post would have done a better job than Cashman in New York. Besides, to rate these guys, you measure how they did with the resources they’ve had to work with. Cashman had, by far, the most resources and the last eight years tell the story of how he’s done – and, somehow, he’s still alive.

    • Old Ranger says:

      Cash gets the bottom of the draft, year after year.
      Cash has the expectation, win now.
      Cash hadn’t been in full control until 2004/5.
      Cash wasn’t in charge of the A-Rod deal…Hal/Hank.
      Cash had all those long (high priced) contracts to get rid of so he could bring in the players he wanted.
      Cash is now the guy that will take the blame, or accolades for the teams performance from here on out.
      Let’s us see how they do now that things have been cleaned up (to some extent), then we can Hang or Praise him.

    • Zack says:

      really? because having Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux, Javy Lopez, McGriff/Galarraga , Chipper, Klesko, & Andruw Jones are horrible “resources”

      From 95-05, the Braves won 90+ games 10 times, of those they won 95+ games 8 times, of those 8 they won 100+ games 5 times. And 1 WS to show for it, but hes so much better then Cashman.

    • Zack says:

      just because someone is paid $15m doesnt mean hes better then someone getting paid $5m, and as you can see the post below the Braves never had any resources…

  19. Lanny says:

    Beane is always genuflected at. But what has he ever done without Mulder, Zito and Hudson?

    Find me a GM who couldn’t win 90 games with those three studs.

  20. Lanny says:

    Cashman hasn’t exactly been a first tier GM. The past 8 yrs have been a disaster for a GM with the farm system not turning out anything of substance, the latin fa market the same and the free agent system being a disaster. He hasn’t even won to cause those blows to soften.

    • Zack says:

      So you only judge a GM on part of his career?

      • Zack says:

        If you dont want to call Cash a 1st tier GM fine, but dont tell me Epstein, Friedman, Beane are 1st tier when Cash has more divison titles and rings then all 3 combined

        • Whitey14 says:

          You’re still missing the point Zack. If you give me $200 million I can build a great team too. It doesn’t take brains to decide that you want Arod or Sabathia on your team, simply the resources to sign them. It’s difficult to judge Cashman because with the resources he has at his disposal he damned well better win. If you want to bash Epstein for the same reason that’s fine, but also bashing him because he wouldn’t have made the Beckett/Lowell for Ramirez deal is ridiculous when you don’t know what his plan would have been. At any rate, taking a team with 65% of the payroll of the Yankees and keeping them competitive is probably what makes Epstein look better than Cashman. Surely you can see that?

          Plain and simply Cashman is being penalized for having the most resources to utilize. In this day of Zone Rating, OPS+ and ERA+ if players are going to be judged on a more thorough set of criteria then so are GMs.
          You’ll never know how good Cashman is until he leaves for a different team and gets to build it up through his own philosophy and not just with money.

  21. Bonos says:

    People stop and think. Cashman has driven this thing called Yankees into a multi billion empire for which he gets paid 3 mil a year. It’s called putting out a product and he has been successful at it. Building a new stadium and filling the seats and selling the Yes network to the public is what it’s about. It’s a business.

  22. Rob S. says:

    The Red Sox are as bought and paid for as any other team and Epstein is a fraud. The Rays only got good by getting the top draft picks every year because they sucked for so long. If you want a good example of how to build a club with limited resources, try the twins. It amazes me every day how many stupid people get paid for their opinions. You just got mine for free.

    • Joseph P. says:

      It’s been said before, but I’ll repeat it: The notion that the Rays are “only” good because of their high draft picks is a bit off-base. Just look at their rotation:

      Kazmir – trade
      Shields – 16th round pick
      Garza – trade (though they did use a No. 1 overall pick to get him)
      Sonnanstine – 13th round pick
      Jackson – trade (though they’re replacing him with a first overall pick)

      And lineup:

      Pena – Scrapheap pickup
      Iwamura – Japanese player no one else really wanted
      Bartlett – trade
      Longoria – high draft pick
      Crawford – 2nd rounder, back when there was no way they could do well
      Upton – high draft pick
      Gross/Joyce/whoever’s in RF – certainly not through high draft picks
      Burrell – free agent signing

      Yes, they got help from high draft picks, but it’s overly simplistic to think that that’s the only reason they got ahead.

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