Heyman: Yanks fielding OF offers, comfortable with Damon
ByJoin Jon Heyman to the growing list of national baseball columnists proclaiming Nick Swisher and Xavier Nady expendable. In a recent post, Heyman notes that the two outfielders could be available for the right price, but more notable is his note on Johnny Damon.
The Yankees are fielding trade offers for corner outfielders Xavier Nady and Nick Swisher. There’s been some speculation they might consider trading Hideki Matsui, too, but he has a full no-trade clause and is coming off knee surgery, so there’s really no way to trade him…
Johnny Damon isn’t in the trade mix, as the Yankees need him to be their leadoff hitter and part of a center field rotation. The other in-house candidates for center field are Melky Cabrera and Brett Gardner.
So here’s what doesn’t make sense. Hideki Matsui just isn’t a viable outfield candidate. Even if his knees could take the daily wear-and-tear, his range is a huge negative. So if the Yankees are planning on going with Damon in center field, that would leave whichever of Nady and Swisher aren’t traded to man right field and…no one…to man left field.
Now, the idea of Damon in center makes most Yankee fans queasy. He’s a very good left fielder, but his range in center is a big diminished. I’m not even going to mention his limp noodle arm. Meanwhile, most of us are quite content with giving Brett Gardner a shot in center field, but there’s a real chance that he just doesn’t have the bat to succeed at the Major League level. It’s tough to say how committed the Yankees are to that idea though.
Considering that the Yankee outfield is a huge question mark for 2010, the team has no real need, as we’ve been saying over and over again, to trade Nady or Swisher. If they get a great offer, of course they should consider it. But for now, both players have roles on the 2009 Yankees, and my money is on the team breaking camp in April with both Xavier Nady and Nick Swisher in tow.
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I just don’t get the trade sentiments either. Why not have a deep, versatile bench? Swisher will get 450 at bats being a 4th OF/DH. Anyone expect Matsui and Damon to play 162 games?
Do we really want Justin Christian types being the 4th OF/DH and getting 400+ at bats? Haven’t we seen enough of the Aaron Guiles etc?
Hey, Aaron Guiel was awesome. That dude picked up some huge hits for the Yanks during his short time in pinstripes.
the dude was a HR hitting machine with the yanks. Plus, these are bench spots. it’s nigh impossible to expect anything decent from em, especially since the yank starters play a lot of games
But, he wore Andy Pettitte’s #46. Andy never forgave the Yankees for that, and that’s why he’s playing hardball now. He’d have gladly accepted a one-year, 1M offer for 2009 if we’d never have issued 46 to Aaron Guiel.
Hence, fuck Aaron Guiel. It’s all his fault.
According to Newsday’s Ken Davidoff, Xavier Nady “figures to be dealt now” as another way to trim payroll…
When I read this last night I took it as the Yanks aren’t really shopping Nady or Swisher, but hey if teams want to make proposals they’ll at least listen.
Otherwise the CF rotation is something that would be dead if Nady or Swish is traded. If neither is traded, and OF/DH rotation that puts Damon in center some days, and gives Matsui days off others makes sense to make sure everyone is getting plenty of at-bats.
I’ve heard Atlanta and Cincy are big on Nady. What can they possibly give us in return for him? Seriously, we gave up Tabata for him.
I don’t see ATL trading for him at this point. All signs point to them not being in a race this year so I doubt they would give up anything special for X. I would like to see them get Lowe, Garland, and Wolf. Then they might trade for him.
I wouldn’t mind taking a shot at Harang if they would do Nady for him. Of course, his arm may be completely wrecked by now after having Dusty around. I think its a risk worth taking.
Oh of course, I would make that deal also.
I don’t know how realistic it is, but if the reports are true (that Jockety has been talking “a lot” to the Yankees, which is apparently what he himself said according to MLBTR), what could the Yankees be getting back from Nady. At this point, I honestly don’t think they would deal Nady/Swisher for Bailey, since Bailey’s stock and velocity have both fallen and the Yankees can use both those outfielders to help this year. I think Harang makes sense since he is a bit pricey for them
It says Damon is going to be part of a CF rotation . I bet he starts less than 20 games there all year. If a trade is indeed made for Nady or Swisher, the biggest implication to me is that both Cabrera and Gardner will be on the 25 man roster pending whatever we’d get in return from that trade.
Completely agree, when Cash was on the radio pre Tex he said that his order was Gardner above Damon in the CF list. I could see Damon going out there if the team was slumping and they wanted to get an extra bat in the lineup over gardner, but thats Gardner and Melky’s job to lose again. I think the idea is see what you can get for Nady since he isnt a long term solution and potentially had a career year last year. They should be fine with an outfield of Damon-LF, Gardner in CF and Swish in RF, with Matsui as the DH/LF and Melky as insurance either on the bench or at AAA.
Everyone thought i was crazy when i said Swisher was playing the OF for on an every day basis.
AHH, on an everyday basis*
I also believe that Damon can play CF everyday if we don’t trade or give up S and N.
An OF of Nady Damon and Swisher is enhances the Lineup by a LOT
But an outfield of Gardner, Damon, and Swisher could be the best defensive outfield we have had in a few years.
That’s not exactly saying much though.
Yea, but it’s a start.
“But an outfield of Gardner, Damon, and Swisher could be
the best defensive outfield we have had in a few yearsone of the best defensive outfields in all of baseball“.Fixed. And Mike, that IS saying much, but it’s very possible.
Mediocre defensive ability aside, is Damon physically able to be the everyday CF? I remember him breaking down the last year he was a primary CF.
Where is everyone getting this breaking down thing from?
He went on the DL for the first time in his ENTIRE career by separating his shoulder jumping into a wall.
Doesn’t matter how old you are, freak accidents like that will happen. I’m fine with saying he should be in left because of his diminished range or his arm but don’t start making shit up.
he had nagging foot and lower body injuries that slowed him down and made him nto as productive in the eladoff spot, he came out and said these things himself in the press and was saying in spring trainging last yr how he is happy to be feeling well and ready to go. plus his numbers from cf and lf are vastly different i believe. he is getting old and the rough and tumble cf takes its toll on his body in ways that affect his mani purpose, leadoff hitter.
I tend to agree with radnom. Outside of those two things, he has been pretty healthy.
yes because after those two things they took him out of center and put him in left field
Well you still neglect to talk about him showing up out of shape the one year he actually got naged up. And I think crashing into that wall could have hurt anyone
Damon also showed up to spring training really out of shape that year. His other two years on the team he showed up already in shape, so I don’t think you can really say if he can hold up in CF.
I like Nady especially for his right handed bat. I just wonder why they would trade the guy away when he only is going to be on a 1 year deal. Doesn’t make a ton of sense to me.
While I don’t like Damon in center I don’t think it’s the worst move ever.
I wonder if Nady would generate a draft pick after next year.
Not if we don’t offer arb.
Why would we not? What could he command in arb that would prevent the team from offering. This isn’t the same as Abreu
Scott Boras. nuff said.
This isn’t the same as Abreu
Thank you. The central factor in the Abreu discussion, even more than the likelihood of acceptance, is the 18-20M he stood to make in arb. That made the offer inherently more risky.
There’s far less risk involved in offering arb to Nady, no matter what desired outcome the team has (keeping him/moving him/getting picks), hence, much greater likelihood of us offering.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3818472
Hoffman is signing with the Brewers.
That’s kind of weird to see him in another uniform. Just like Smoltz and Wood. Lot of franchise players changing teams this offseason.
Seriously. Garret Anderson is another one you can put on that list. I think Hoffman is the one that’s going to mess with my head the most though.
Ya before the season started if you told me these guys were changing teams I would of said ya sure. Garret I could of seen but Wood and Hoffman…what is going on lol.. Wood especially because he had a real shot to win with the Cubs if that’s what mattered to him.
That was the Cubs decision not Woods. I think he said he would’ve taken a 1yr deal. They traded Ceda for Gregg (I think this’ll be the ‘pen version of Kazmir/Zombrano) and let Wood walk to save $.
Hmm, maybe the Yanks are really serious with this whole trimming payroll thing. From what I have seen they are at 189 before arb raises, so maybe that takes them to 200 mill overall. Why that is trimming payroll it is not by a whole lot. I prefer to keep em all. Especially with injury concerns, nothing is wrong with keeping them all.
Why isn’t Swisher in the CF rotation? Doesn’t he have a better arm than damon and at the least an equal glove out there?
Damon should be moved he has plenty of value there are no lead off hitters out on the market.
Damon’s value to the team>>>>>any return we could get on the market. Damon is our best offensive outfielder right now I think. We can’t trade him, he does to much out of the lead off spot.
I think everyone needs to stop with the Swisher in CF. He HATED that position last year, blamed his poor season on it, and also felt that it was a huge part of the reason Ozzie and him didn’t get along. He said that he was happy to be here because he knew he didn’t have to play there
Thank you, you beat me to it.
Why isn’t Swisher in the CF rotation?
Cash has also said that he is last on the depth chart.
You just said it. There are no leadoff hitters on the market so why would we trade one and have a hole there?
The only thing I like about keeping Johnny is; We can see if a guy with AAA numbers of .414 OBP and a .296 BA can do the job in the big show. If he only looses 5%+/- of his AAA numbers, he will be able to hold on…actually do better then Johnny (OBP .354).
Swisher didn’t like playing CF, and Cash said he won’t.
there are no lead off hitters out on the market.
Which is exactly why we won’t get rid of Damon.
This is obviously a case of a reporter just saying something without really thinking about it/knowing what they’re talking about.
Obviously the Yankees value Damon the most, he is much more valuable to us than what we would get from trading him because his salary is so large.
And obviously if they trade one of Nady/Swisher Damon is not playing CF on a regular basis.
I’m not really sure what the point of this blog post is, unless you think that this is some how inside information as to the Yankees true plans?
Well, if we believe what Peter Gammons said last night (and I am not trying to insult him here), and if Heyman is really http://www.scottboras.com, then perhaps he is trying to clear a spot to get one of his clients into left field in the new Yankee Stadium
Well many posters have been saying to just trade Damon/Matsui if they’re going to make a deal, this hopefully helps squash this
If the Reds are really that interested in Nady, I wouldnt mind taking a flier on Homer Bailey as part of any package. Now that would be buying low with a lot of potential rewards.
No it wouldn’t. He’s much more of sure bust than IPK. He’s had a few cups of coffee, and sucked everytime. However, unlike IPK, he sucked after going back to AAA also and has lost LOTS of velocity. No thanks. Harang or no deal.
Yankees are talking to Manny Ramirez!?
Please post a link if you’re going to make a comment like that.
Are you asking or are you saying ??
Misunderstanding, I was reading an article (Dated December 8th) not January 8th.
I was so happy for a moment there, haha
Could they possibly be making room to sign another free agent? *coughcough*Manny Ramirez *coughcough*
i sure hope sooooo this lineup will bee crazyyyyyyyyyyyy and i hope we can add a pitcher if andy doesnt wanna come on i hope the yaanks trade for harang ill give them nadyy and a lower prospect and den we have depth in are minor leagues soo that will b a great adiition if we add manny in this lineup wow
yeah dude that would be so crazy if we added manny hes awesome ill go nuts we should trade nady for prospects and get manny go yanks
I’m all for an outfield Damon, Gardner, and Swisher. Signing Teixeira along with expected bounce back years from certain players makes me more comfortable with Gardner starting in CF.
If the trade of Nady does happen, hopefully, they’ll get something worth trading for. I still don’t think it’ll happen though.
I wonder what teams are offering to the Yanks for Nady.
Ya like steve (different one) said a couple days ago… How many teams have as good of a 4th outfielder as Nady? Best to keep him unless we get something of great value back.
“But for now, both players have roles on the 2009 Yankees, and my money is on the team breaking camp in April with both Xavier Nady and Nick Swisher in tow.” ……….unless, of course, they plan on adding Manny. Otherwise, it does not make sense.
Trading Nady or Swisher and adding Manny makes NO sense. That would leave our outfield as Damon/Gardner/Nady or Swish, and Matsui at DH. Where is there room for Manny? I know everyone wants to say just dump Matsui, but that’s clearly not going to be easy to do. And for a team talking about cutting payroll, I doubt they’re willing to pay Matsui $13M to be a bench player.
Yeah, I’m not against moving someone to add Manny, but in that instance the player I’m moving is Matsui, not Swish or Nady.
And that doesn’t seem likely, as the Yankees aren’t much inclined to follow my plan (sell Matsui for pennies on the dollar, eat salary if necessary).
Do some of you guys really think they are trying to move one of these guys so they can add Manny? They have been saying we need to trim payroll, Manny would just add to it.
Cashman also said that the payroll would be $180m (we’re looking at $200m now, and they’ve been open to adding Pettitte), and that it wasn’t realistic to expect them to sign both CC and Tex. His press comments don’t mean much…
How about this: trade Nady or Swisher, saving around $5+ million. Then do the Melky and Igawa for Cameron trade, taking on about $6+ million. You have then cleared the logjam in the OF, dramatically imporved your defense, and your OF of Damon, Cameron and Nady/Swisher is only a slight offensive downgrade from an OF of Swisher, Damon and Nady, and an offensive upgrade from an OF of Damon, Melky/Gardner and Nady/Swisher. Plus, it leaves Gardner in the role he’s probably best suited for, as a fouth OF with amazing speed off the bench, a la Roberts with the Sox in ’04. Thoughts?
I think Cameron is vastly overrated at this point in his career, but thats just me
I’m not saying I’d bet money on it, but it wouldn’t totally surprise me to see Cabrera or Gardner have a better year than Cameron, who is in his decline phase.
Agreed
I also , agree!
Old Ranger,
: + ) =
; + ) =
Thanks, I’ll try it …
:+) was not it
shift:+) nothing, sorry I am so dumb, but I try! I only wish this was my old Mac. I know I’m missing something.
Not a bad plan, but all depends on what return we can get for Nady/Swisher.
I was pro Cameron for Melky/Igawa previously (since Cameron is a good bet to outproduce Gardner), but that was before the Tex addition. With what he adds to our lineup, I’m content to give the season to Gardner and take the risk on his struggles.
Damon in left, Melky in CF, and Nady/Swish platoon in RF….roll out the balls and let’s get to work.
Damon in left,
MelkyBrett in CF, and Nady/Swish platoon in RF….roll out the balls and let’s get to work.Fixed
Damon in left, Gardner in center, Swisher in right, Nady/Matsui DH platoon.
Damon in left, Gardner in center, Swisher in right,
Nady/Matsui DH platoon, Nady frequently subbing and spot-starting for all four of them.Fixed.
We’re in a good position to trade Nady, IF we get back something we need, that being a better solution in CF or a good option for the back of the rotation. I could see packaging Nady with prospects and or relievers to get a guy like Rick Ankiel. If Cincinnati’s in on it, I’d deal Nady for Homer Bailey or to the Giants for Jonathan Sanchez.
I don’t see the wisdom in dealing Nady, or Swisher for that matter, for B prospects who’d never play for us. Damon and Matsui are going to miss games and it’s certainly a better option to have Nady/Swisher available to fill in than the loser of the Melky/Gardner battle.
What’s the point of a Nady for Ankiel deal, especially if you have to throw prospects in? They’re basically the same player, except one hits righty and the other hits lefty. Both are free agents after the year as well.
Ankiel’s not a centerfielder either, he just plays one on TV. -10.5 & -10.1 UZR in CF the last two years.
Ankiel’s story is making people think he’s a better player than he really is.
Ankiel is going to get displaced by Colby Rasmus pretty soon. That’s going to officialize your observation that Ankiel is a sub-par CF. Ankiel is a good athlete and deserves props for making the transition, but he’s a corner OF.
Mike, does the fact that he is still learning the outfield overall after being a pitcher play into that? Could he still improve, or is this what he will be? I just know that I saw a highlight of him throw out someone (I believe it was against the Rockies) that was absolutely amazing. I tried finding the clip, but I couldn’t.
That probably has a bunch to do with it, but he’ll turn 30 next year and has just one year left on his deal. You don’t want to pay a guy like that to learn a position.
Ankiel’s not a gold glove center fielder, but he’s a better center fielder than any offensively-capable player currently on our roster. As has been mentioned he’s still learning the position, and while I don’t think Nady will fall completely back to earth like some do, most would agree that Ankiel has a higher offensive ceiling. The guy has only in his fifth year as a position player, which leaves a lot of room for continued improvement. The fact that we’d have above average range in the corners with Swisher and Damon would do a lot to make up for Ankiel’s below average range in center.
But I think more then if he is any better or the same then Nady, it should be Ankiel vs Cabrera/Gardner. Ankiel CAN play CF. Nady CANT play CF. They are both on 1 year deals. So if Ankiel can improve, I would do it. They are the same, both roughly same age, but 1 year deals, both rep’ed by Boras. I think Ankiel is better then our CF options
While you make a valid case that Ankiel, while he’s not perfect, would be an improvement over Nady, he’s not significant enough of an improvement to warrant trading prospects away (in addition to Nady) to get him.
And, since he is an improvement over Nady, the Cards would want Nady + prospects.
Pass. If he has a good year in the field, we can just sign Ankiel next year when he hits the market; he figures to be a cheaper alternative to Matt Holliday.
“So if the Yankees are planning on going with Damon in center field, that would leave whichever of Nady and Swisher aren’t traded to man right field and…no one…to man left field.”
Unless Cashman has one more trick up his sleeve and plans to sign a certain free agent……
That would give the yankees a possible of/dh rotation of:
Matsui Day off:
Lf- Damon Cf- Gardiner Rf- Swisher/Nady DH- Manny Bench- Matsui
Damon Day off:
Lf- Manny Cf- Gardiner Rf- Swisher/Nady DH-Matsui Bench- Damon
Matsui in left (is he is up to it):
Lf-Matsui Cf- Gardiner Rf- Swisher/Nady DH-Manny Bench- Damon
Swisher/Nady Day off:
Lf- Damon Cf- Gardiner Rf- Manny DH- Matsui Bench- Swisher/Nady
Gardiner Day off:
Lf- Manny Cf- Damon Rf- Swisher/Nady DH- Matsui Bench- Gardiner
In any of these scenarios we have have a lineup with Manny, with the ability to give Matsui and Damon the rest they need.
Do you really want 2 to 4 years of “Manny being Manny”, no matter how great of a hitter he is? Girardi is not an easy-going guy. How long would it be before the SH*T hit the fan?
-Scott
If that includes hitting .300/.400/.600, yes.
and mashing in the playoffs. I would take that anyday.
But at this point it is unrealistic.
Yes, dear god please. And 3 years tops would definitely be enough for Ramirez. We could possibly even get away with something in the 2/52.5 range.
But I don’t see it happening. If we don’t want to put out the extra $2M on Pettitte (or whatever it is), I don’t see us wanting to spend an extra $25+M on Ramirez.
If it was up to me though, I’d go for ManRam in a heartbeat… Rodriguez-Ramirez-Teixeira would be one of the greatest 3-4-5 combinations of all time.
I think that Girardi’s head may actually explode, literally, when he tells Manny, “Hey Manny, I need you to go today” and Manny responds with, “No you motherfucking white devil” which is an exact quote from Manny to John Henry when he tried to trade him to the Texas Rangers in the ARod fiasco (even though he asked to be traded there at one earlier point). *According to Feeding The Monster
That is an awesome story. But c’mon, you’re comparing asking a guy to waive his NTC with being in the lineup. Its an unfair comparison. I know Manny has a bad track record, but his raw ability more than makes up for it. Yankees have great team leadership in the clubhouse with guys like DJ and Posada – I think we can survive any potential Manny drama and be no worse for the wear. And there is no guarantee of there being any type of altercations in the first place.
I really don’t understand the continued interest in Manny now that we have Tex. I wanted no part of him to begin with, but I understood the desperation for a big bat… any big bat.
But now we already have the best lineup in baseball. We don’t need to score 1,100 runs. Bringing in Manny at this point would be taking on all the negatives… the media problems, the horrid defense, the refusal to play when he doesn’t feel like it… for no real purpose other than to create a cartoonish offense that isn’t necessary.
I would normally agree. But when Terry Francona first met Manny and went to shake his hand, Manny just told him “Fuck You” and tried walking away. AND, the whole Texas thing was Manny wanted out of Boston from the day that he signed his deal. The first thing he told John Henry when he met his is, “You gotta get me out of here. I hate it.”
I realize its a Red Sox book, but it really is an awesome insight into Manny, and lots of people speak on the record about him. Also, they completely trash Nomar. Very entertaining and informative.
Really? Why would he tell Francona to fuck off just like that?
I’d agree its a luxury and we don’t need it…but I wouldn’t complain if we did indeed get him. What’s wrong with fielding the best team you can manage to create?
In my mind, you gotta move Matsui to make room for Manny (since he’s best suited to be a DH), and that just doesn’t seem likely … and I got faith in Godzilla, I think he’ll do good for us next year. Its not like I’m saying the front office needs to get him, or that I’d find any fault of all for not getting him. But if the question is “Would you want Manny on your team?”, my answer would be “Yes, absolutely.”
I think all of his negatives (besides the shitty defense) are completely overblown, and that a lot of the issues with him were based on how the Boston FO treated the guy. All I’m saying is it takes two to tango, and if you can manage Ramirez the right way, he’s more than worth it. Its not like he is a negative clubhouse presence, and he’s an outstanding hitter. If you can get the guy for 2 years, its a very tempting thing.
Oh by no means would I object if he signed here. I would LOVE to have that type of hitter. But the guy seems to be a real asshole. I have no idea why he would just tell Francona to fuck off. The book also says that once Henry won the bidding for the team, the local guys who tried to buy the team took him down to the docks and told him that if he were to disappear, they would take over the team. Henry wrote an email later that night to others saying he felts his life was in jeopardy, and decided to take them on as minority owners to try and keep the peace.
Oh by no means would I object if he signed here. I would LOVE to have that type of hitter. But the guy seems to be a real asshole.
Ty Cobb stabbed a guy.
Lol…that’s a funny quote.
If that includes hitting .300/.400/.600, yes.
He’s only done that twice in the last six years.
“Only”? Hah!
Then how about .290/.390/.580?
Wait a sec Ben. Did i miss something? What’s with this Manny chatter? The only NY team talking to Boras is the Mets these days.
Idle musings of idle fans. There’s nothing substantial to it. Just me and Mike joking around.
Then how about .290/.390/.580?
Nine of the last ten seasons.
Pffft that’s it? And only ONE World Series MVP too. The guy is a waste of space.
Regular season MVP(A-Rod)+World Series MVP(Manny)+Playoff Hero(Jeter)+Silver Slugger/Gold Glover(Teixeira)+Pitching Beast(CC)= Recipe for Success
* + best closer in the history of the regular season AND post season, and also a World Series MVP (Mo)
And Jeter is also a WS MVP.
D’oh
I believe you left out “2008 ML leader in ISO (among non-qualifers) Cody Ransom” from your list.
He’s only done that twice in the last six years.
This is like saying “I only had threeway sex with Zoe Saldana and Selita Ebanks twice in the last six years.”
Damon – Left
Gardner – Center
Whomever is not traded of Nady/Swish in right
Ransom can play some emergency outfield. Melky might be on the squad as a 4th outfileder, and in a real pinch Matsui will play a bit. He’s that type of player, and we may be surprised how well he’s recovered.
Get some value for Nady/Swish and they’re expendible (one of them). Perhaps we can get a 5th starter if the Pettite thing doesn’t work out (although maybe we can get Sheets cheaply at this point), a few prospects, or a veteran bat for the bench – something this team has been SORELY lacking these past few years – A Cecil Fielder, Tim Raines, Straw, Chili Davis type. You really don’t want Damon playing more than a handful of games in CF. It just really takes a toll on him and we all know about his arm…
-Scott
Nady + for Justin Duchscherer !
I’d do it, but Oakland definitely wouldn’t. He’s the closest thing they have to an ace.
What if we throw in Melky and Kennedy
Thats a lot for 1 year of a guy who really only pitched well for 1 half of a season no?
Ya your right, it was more aimed as a joke like Melky and Kennedy can net us anything. I think I would give up a good amount to get Duke. Probably not Kennedy unless the deal was expanded but Duke is a solid pitcher ain’t he?
He’s a tough one to gauge. Nice numbers, but all out of the pen until 2008 when he was only healthy for 141.7 IP. He also didn’t have a great K/9 rate in 2008 as a starter and is going to be 31 this year. He’s really never been able to stay healthy. Not saying I don’t like him, but I don’t know how much I’d give up for him (especially with other options out there).
Well it will be interesting to see what type of deal he winds up with
And he had like, a .210 BABIP in that first half.
I still think you could see Nady or Swisher bring back the arm who will inhabit/compete for the #5 spot in the rotation if Pettitte doesnt come back.
now that Pettitte is pretending to be a whiny little bitch, Cashman is being forced to shop arounda little bit to see if he can get someone else to fill the hole in the rotation.
now that Pettitte is
pretendingproving himself to be a whiny little bitchfixed
I’d say keep them both and then trade one away during the season to bring in a starting pitcher if needed.
It seems that the chatter about trading Nady or Swisher is just media hype for hot stove season. The Yankees, like all teams this time of year, will field offers but that does not equal shopping players. I have not seen any reports that the Yankees are shopping either player. As noted in the piece, the Yankees have a role for both so why trade either? Nady starts in RF. Swisher gets plenty of ABs backing up 1B, with time at all three OF positions, and at DH. The Yankees have insurance against injury to Matsui and/or Damon (lest we forget why Nady was traded for the the first place.) With both the Yankees have a decent bench, flexibility and depth. By trading one of them, they lose those three qualities.
ASSUMING last year was a fluke for Swisher, which everyone is doing for some reason (yes, I’ve seen the stats – but maybe he’s one of those people only comfortible in Oakland). People are just AUTOMATICALLY giving him the benefit of the doubt. I’m not saying they’re wrong, but they’re not automatically right either….
-Scott
“but maybe he’s one of those people only comfortible in Oakland”
Hopefully there were no chemicals involved. When I see a guy leave Oakland and drop off that hard I start to think there might be more to the story. Might not be, but I always think about it a little more than I would if it was another team.
It is only 1 year, calm down. Swisher still put up a good amount of HR’s in limited action and he see’s alot of pitches plus gets on base alot. His OBP was great despite his AVG being 219. If he gets back to the 240-250 mark he will be a great addition.
Mr Pop. I am very calm here.
“Swisher still put up a good amount of HR’s in limited action and he see’s alot of pitches”
Yes sir very true.
“plus gets on base alot”
Not least year, which is what you were talking about.
“His OBP was great despite his AVG being 219″
Actually this is not true. His OBP is HORRIBLE, because he had a low BA. Yeah he had a big gap between his BA and OBP, in the right direction. But that alone does not help the fact that his OBP still sucked last year and that is totally because his BA sucked.
“Mr. Pop” … that name made me smile.
I apologize, thought it was higher. I still think yankee fans are going to be happy with the results he gives us.
Actually this is not true. His OBP is HORRIBLE, because he had a low BA. Yeah he had a big gap between his BA and OBP, in the right direction. But that alone does not help the fact that his OBP still sucked last year and that is totally because his BA sucked.
His 2008 OBP was .332. That’s not “horrible”, that’s league average. Melky Cabrera’s 2008 OBP of .301, now, THAT’S “horrible”.
Basically, despite Swisher’s atrocious 2008 batting average, he was still a league average productive player offensively, all things considered. His wOBA of .325 puts him at like a tiny tick below league average. He’s not the reaons the White Sox struggled to score runs. That would be all those PA’s they gave to Orlando Cabrera, Juan Uribe, AJ Pierzinsky, and Brian Anderson.
Swisher’s awesome. They’ve already written a book about him.
On a side note, I am really concerned that the Sox are obtaining Smoltz and Baldelli to secure their rotation and OF… I dont want to sound greedy or anything, but i think it would be a smart move if the yankees made some of these low risk high reward signings. I just think it’s a big risk going into 09 with 2 rookies (with inning limits no less) rounding out the rotation. Some depth in the rotation would be really nice.
Yeah, agreed … Kevin Cash and Jason Johnson are not exactly my idea of low risk / high reward signings. I’d like to see us take a flier on at least one guy who could make a legitimate impact on the team if he’s healthy.
Saito!
Saito is a perfect example of a guy we should take a flier on.
But we need a starter, not another reliever.
I’ll never say no to an arm like Saito’s for the pen. Him and Matsui can go get some sushi once in a while. Igawa can pay.
Wire the $ from Scranton?
I figure he will drive them there.
Pedro?!?
Atlanta is closing in on Lowe, this means Oliver Perez is a Met again and management may rethink Manny
And the Braves might have more interest in Nady, looking to contend right away.
which is good for Cashman.
but what do the Braves have that Cashman would want?
Mike. A, maybe you can help out? anything in the farm?
Not really. They won’t give up Jordan Schafer for him, and Lillibridge was used to get Javy Vazquez. Tommy Hanson is obviously out of the question.
What ut Gorkys Hernandez?
If they’d only sign O-Dog and trade us Kelly Johnson
I think the Mets pony-up for Lowe, and Ollie goes to Atlanta or St. Louis. Abreu to Queens?
Mets ownership is dead against Manny in Queens.
wont happen.
They are clearly idiots. But we knew this already.
I think I would rather hold on to Swisher over Nady just for the fact that he is more versatile. They post similar numbers but Swisher is more of a power threat than Nady and he hits from both sides of the plate. Swisher has a slightly higher OBP and OPS that Nady, and Nady’s 25HR/97RBI last year were a career high. If we had to lose one, I would make it Nady if he was a traid option for, say, a 5th starter or quality IF utility type.
Maybe Nady to the Braves for Martin Prado, not sure if he is available or they would be willing to trade him, but he can play all 4 IF spots and would be a solid UT player.
It would be a good thing for Lowe not to be a Red Sock or Met….. They can have Smoltz & Redding/Wolf (respectively). I would have liked to have taken a flyer on Baldelli or have seen him out of the division, but you can’t have everything I guess….
-Scott
I’m glad we didn’t sign Lowe because he gives you nothing more than innings. He posted 3.58 ERA over his 4 years in LA. That is in the NL West, the worst division in baseball. I don’t care to see his ERA line each week in the Post pitching for the Yankees. I think he will post a 5.25+ ERA which will not be worth the $15M/per he is commanding.
“Now, the idea of Damon in center makes most Yankee fans queasy.”
Count me in on the sick ones.
“He’s a very good left fielder”
I know I keep hearing you and some others on here say this but it simply is not true.
Post any stat you like but the man takes odd routes to balls and has no arm. Johnny also makes a really bad play every so often based on his former athletic ability that is currently diminished. He is not god awful out there but he is not a “very good” left fielder. He may be better than some of these guys who should be a DH that play out there but that does not make him “very good”. He might even be better than average, but again being better than average is not “very good”.
Good going…
Every time I wrote about that, I got hit hard by others that still believe in Johnny. So, I quit bringing it up. Stats show one thing but our eyes show us another…combine the two and one comes up with, Johnny is past his better days.
I just don’t understand though. If the stats PROVE he is something, and there are numerous forms of stats, why do you choose to disbelieve them? Who cares if he stops in at Starbucks on his way to catch the fly ball? As long as he makes the play. Who would you call “very good” out of curiousitiy?
Ordinarily I would agree with that, but defensive metrics still have a ways to go before I consider them to be unassailable.
Thank you…
See, if one uses common sense and stats to justify opinions…someone will nit pick.
I use stats and believe in them but, they must be USED not ABUSED. Stats can go just so far. One must remember they are put together by a human, not a machine. If one player is at the point of the catch and set-up for the catch and another is still on the run when he catches it…who is the better OF’er? As stated above, “he made the catch” but, then he is out of position to make a play elsewhere…etc, etc, ad nauseum.
I have said again and again, Johnny is not a necessary part of this team…he is a good part. As with most older players, he will need to be replaced. Use those we have and see if we have anyone that can do a dependable job or close enough.
I would rather try someone this year (every once an a while) then to have to put someone in there next year, with out knowing if we have a player to do the job.
Ordinarily I would agree with that, but defensive metrics still have a ways to go before I consider them to be unassailable.
There’s a big gap between “unassailable” and “devoid of any merit and not worth even mentioning or considering.”
You want to say that UZR/150 is flawed? Fine, I’m sure it is in some ways. Lets examine it and discuss it.
Saying “Post any stat you like but [it's not going to change my opinion because stats are worthless]” is akin to an ostrich sticking its head in the sand.
I don’t believe I DID say that…let me check…ummm…no, can’t see where I said that anywhere. Nice try, though!
And yes, in Damon’s case I think the defensive stats are somewhat misleading, although I agree he is likely an above average LF even with his limp arm.
“Very good” — I guess that’s just a matter of semantics. How do you define “very good?” Is that like top 20%? Top 25%? I think we’re quibbling over something that varies from person to person and is essentially undefinable.
I mean, if I say my blackened rib eye was “very good” and you say yours was “good, but I’ve had better” — are we even expressing different opinions? Those could be equivalent thoughts, right? It seems kind of stupid to examine Damon’s defense using metrics and then quibble over the exact value those statistics represent in terms of vague adjectives don’t you think?
When did Swisher become a bench player.He’s under 30 years old,makes $9 million,and can hit 30 homeruns and 90 rbi’s.Besides he’s average he still a good hitter.It would be a waste to have him in the bench everyother day.
“When did Swisher become a bench player.”
Last year, and again when the Yankees acquired Tex.
Eh, I don’t put much credence – if any – in what Jon Heyman says after he presents the facts. He is just giving his opinion about the Yanks using Johnny Damon in a center-field rotation.
Trade Swisher and Cano to SD for Peevy
Trade Nady to ATl for Escobar
Sign Dunn 3yr at 10 mil per?
LF Damon
SS Jeter
3B April-rod
1b Tex
RF Dunn
C Posada
DH Matsui
2B Escobar
CF Gardner/Melk
SP
Sabs
Peevy
Burnett
Wang
Joba/Hughes
Thoughts?
I know this is a joke
April-Rod … ooo that’s clever.
Atlanta won’t trade Escobar for X, and the Pads probably won’t trade Peavy, plus the Yankees take on a bunch more payroll with Peavy and Dunn, something they prob dont want
Thoughts?
I think you are retarded. Seriously, retarded. San Diego wants to cut payroll, so sure, lets add 16 million. Atlanta was against dealing Escobar for Peavy, but for 1 year of Nady, HELL YEAH! You are the reason other idiots do those stupid “!!1!!1!” thing. Those are my thoughts
You had me at “Peevy”.
Allow me….PEEVY doesn’t want to come here…he has a no trade clause….you can’t make him come !
-Scott
PS The Pads aint going to make that trade anyhow…
Put it this way, there isnt a guarantee that Posada, Matsui, or any of the other aging guys are going to stay healthy all year…Posada is a Catcher, yes but still…having Brett Gardner out there with Molina behind the plate smells too much like last years stink pot batting order. Yes, we’ve added Tex…but still.
With the age of these guys it’s never too much. Only factor is how these players react to being on the bench from time to time.
Damon is bad in CF but what’s his comparison there to Swisher or Nady in CF? They certainly haven’t had the same number of chances so we aren’t absolutely sure perhaps? But all 3 aren’t great…that’s known. All I know is getting rid of them isn’t a great idea. That Yankees don’t need to trade off one of two cheap young good players to cut payroll…that’s horseshit.
Anyone think Atl would part with Jurjjens?
Jurrjens*
Not for any of our outfielders.
I doubt it, Jo-Jo Reyes will be the pitcher they shop.
if they sign Lowe have a solid rotation of:
Vasquez
Lowe
Jurrjens
Campillo
Hanson/Glavine/Reyes
They really should add Lowe + one of Garland or Wolf. Then go after Adam Dunn.
I don’t think they have the $$$ to get all of those guys, but yes, that would certainly make them a legit competitor in the NL East.
Well from what MLBTR had a few months ago, they said the Braves have 40 to 45 million to spend. I think you can easily get all those guys for 45. 15-Lowe, 10-12 for Wolf or Garland, 13 to Dunn. That is 40 mill and is Wolf or Garland going to command that much? They have the money to get legit players.
Hmm…interesting. If they really do have $45M to spend, they could cause quite a ruckus in this market.
They may want to keep #5 open for Hanson/Glavine to win a spot, instead of forking over money for a multi-year FA
Y’know that really is a respectable rotation. Lowe solidifies them rather nicely … I might even put him as the ace over Vasquez.
What about Oliver Perez instead of Lowe?
Why not both? Ya, I went there.
What about Oliver Perez instead of Lowe?
Because Oliver Perez sucks balls.
As little as I think of Swisher, I don’t see the hot sweat to want to trade him or Nady. What’s wrong with having four guys for three spots, especially when there are questions surrounding all of them? If, for some strange reason, someone would want to trade a young stud outfielder for any two of them, go for it, otherwise what’s the point? I’ve given up on hoping they’ll bring Abreu back. Abreu in right, Nady in left, Damon at DH and Matsui as depth would have been the best grouping as far as I was concerned.
If they do nothing, there is some upside
Damon/Matsui/Nady are all in the walk year so should really do well.
Swisher is young. When they got him, one of the pluses was that he sees a lot of pitches. This was one of the things about losing abreu/giambi
Swisher also seemed excited about being a yankee
It will be interesting to see what they do.
I have three more observations
1) The yankees have used misdirection well. There is the payroll reduction concept, but that could be changed
if they have orlando hudson and cabreara asking to play 2nd and fuentes asking to be setup/closer. I think there is a good chance that some vetern pitcher could make the yankees an offer for the petitte spot. What is Sheets calls the yankes and asks to pitch for 1 yr 10 mill?
2) It is a unique situation for the yankees. They have money and at the same time a lot of clubs do not. If some of these bargains/market crashes continue, they could be silently watching
3) It has been said that there will be almost a second free agent situation when teams trade people midseason.
If the yanks stay with what they have , they could see how all the young players pan out , and see how they’re veterens hold up and be primed to make key moves at the trade deadline.
If the yanks stay with what they have , they could see how all the young players pan out , and see how they’re veterens hold up and be primed to make key moves at the trade deadline.
———————————————————————
This I like, if Brett/Melky, Swisher, Nady or Johnny have a problem (or someone else), we can try and pick up someone at the trade deadline.
Many have said this also, so I don’t think it is off the wall.
Yup, seems like the smart move to me unless there’s an obvious trade we should make.
…unless there’s an obvious trade we should make.
Like ARod and Joba for Jonathan Sanchez and Angel Villalona.
Man, your nuts man. That would never happen.
[...] Thursday, I noted that the Yanks are listening to offers for Nady, and Joe talked about trading Nady for Aaron Harang. On Wednesday, the rumor du jour [...]