Jeter’s future and Mark Teixeira

Testing Scott Boras
Yanks attempt media negotiations with Pettitte

Now that the Yanks have wrapped up Mark Teixeira for the next eight years, they can, as many fans have noted, no longer store their old and aging players at first base. Personally, I don’t like this approach of basically wasting a lineup spot for convenience’s or nostalgia’s sake, and the Yanks have shown they don’t buy this philosophy either. Meanwhile, Bob Klapisch wonders if the Teixeira signing foreshadows the end of Derek Jeter in the Bronx. I don’t really agree either, but this will be a looming issue over the next two years.

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Testing Scott Boras
Yanks attempt media negotiations with Pettitte
  • ryan

    That’s a crazy thought…. LF maybe or DH. Im sure they’ll use one of those to keep the face of the franchise on the team for one more final contract. maybe a 3 yr deal or somethin.

    • whozat

      Why is it crazy to think that the Yankees wouldn’t want to fill LF or DH with a bat that is less than average for the position?

      • Old Ranger

        Beat me to it.

      • ryan

        it’s crazy to think of the yanks without jeter … c’mon… stop nitpicking through statements for what best suits an argument…ofcourse the team would be better with a real LF or a slugger for DH. If you have no regard for the captain of the New York Yankees that’s your deal not mine and im sure it’s not what the oganization has planned. He brings more to the table than a “less than average bat for the position, How about leadership and image and clutch hitting. He may not hit all the homeruns a LF or DH is expected to …but he’s no chop liver either. He hits for average and hits in the clutch. I think i’ll take jeter in a big spot over just about anyone on the team.

  • Gsloot

    LF is the only option. Resign, Damon for two years, let Jeter take over when Damon’s contract is up.

    I wonder, Jeter is no idiot, he can see the writing on the wall. Any way that mid-2011, he walks into Cash’s office agrees on a four year 60 million type extensions (which he deserves) or 4 years 80 million (which he ask for and probably get) and agree to move to left after he gets his 3000 hit as a shortstop.

    In two years: 1) there will be an opening in left 2) yanks upper level farm system will be MUCH improved 3) the yanks will be able to trade for a SS (please give me Hanly Ramirez).

    • Jake H

      I agree with this. I also wonder what Jeter could do if he didn’t have to worry about his D as much as he does. Yes I know he isn’t the greatest defensive SS but he does have to put a lot of time at it.

    • Jake K.

      There’s no way to say now that Jeter will deserve a 4-year extension in two years that will pay him through his age 40 season. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. Depends on when he begins to truly decline and at what rate. Unless you think he’ll deserve it based purely on his past accomplishments, which is a bad way for a baseball team to make decisions.

    • Reggie C.

      Jose Reyes.

      • jsbrendog

        no no no no no no no. not interested.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

        Gimme JJ Hardy instead. He’s a FA the same year as Jeter.

        • Sweet Dick Willie

          That’s also the same year that Hanley Ramirez’s contract jumps to $11 mil, so maybe the Marlins would be receptive to moving him at that point.

          I realize it would take a ton of prospects to get him, but by then the farm system should be producing, and although one of the purposes of the farm system is to grow your own talent, another is to use it to sign premier, established major leaguers, like Hanley Ramirez.

  • TLVP

    If you consider how savy (and thus boring) Derek Jeter is in communication he has almost certainly figured out what the alternatives are. The question is what he really wants and I would say

    1) One more ring
    2) 3000 hits
    3) To retire as a Yankee

    He only needs enough money to maintain his status. $10m/year would be too little but $15m would be more then enough for that.

    I also think that if he gets 1 more ring and 3000 hits in the next 3 years, he might consider retiring. He will not go after Pete Rose record if that would require him to sign elsewhere (which it would). In reality he might have 5-6 more seasons in him (but towards the end he will not be good enough to be a starting Yankee) but that is not enough to go for any type of all time record.

    • Andy In Sunny Daytona

      Agreed. Jeter is 1721 hits behind Rose. That’s 8 seasons of 215 hits. Highly doubtful.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

        But at the end of their respective age-34 seasons, Jeter is just 12 hits behind Rose. So while it would be improbable for Jeter to surpass Rose, it was just as improbable that Rose did it in the first place.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

          But Rose hung around to reach that milestone. He would have played for any team that offered him a deal at the end of his career. Jeter doesn’t seem like the type of guy that would do that.

          • steve (different one)

            nobody wants jeter hanging around and putting up similar numbers to what Rose did his last 4-5 seasons.

            you would hate him by the time he retired.

          • Mike Pop

            Jeter would go to the Pirates to reach his milestone

    • Sweet Dick Willie

      I also think that if he gets 1 more ring and 3000 hits in the next 3 years, he might consider retiring.

      The problem is that his current contract runs out in 2 years, after the 2010 season, and it is highly unlikely that he will get his 3,000th hit in the next 2 years (he needs 465, or 233/yr).

      So he will need another contract to get him to 3,000, and therein lies the problem. Do the Yanks play hardball, and offer him a 2 or three year deal, knowing he will want to get the 3,000th hit as a Yankee? Or do they value his past contributions, and give him a 4 or 5 year deal?

      I don’t know, but it probably won’t be an easy decision.

    • anonymous

      Pete Rose didnt have enough left in him to go after the Pete Rose record. Its a stupid record to attempt if it takes 5-6 years of replacement level hitting to obtain.

  • Frank B.

    I know I’m going to get killed for this but here goes…

    Jeter’s contract is probably the most obscene contract ever given to a player. That 10 year 189 million dollar deal was nuts. He was/is essentially an average fielding SS, with little power. He should kiss Arod’s butt every day, because if Arod doesn’t sign that deal with Texas the Yanks don’t do this..

    AND YET, I get the impression that he possesses an air of entitlement to the Yankee SS position. The Yanks (for some strange reason) went to Jeter before the Arod trade to assure him that his position was secure and basically get his approval.

    If his time is up ITS UP… he was /is a great Yankee but the Yanks owe him NOTHING! He was over compensated and over indulged. I for one don’t want another aging corner outfielder with no power especially @ 20 mil per year.

    • http://asportsaddictneedsdivineintervention.blogspot.com/ E-ROC

      Jeter’s contract is probably the most obscene contract ever given to a player. That 10 year 189 million dollar deal was nuts.

      Barry Zito says hi.

      • ryan

        yes obscene …..but what else is new…y pick on him…I wonder if he wore all 4 rings on his hand during negotiations.. hmm

      • Rich

        Chan-Ho Park, too.

    • Old Ranger

      You have balls I’ll say that. You are right, when ever I write something like that………….! Good show.

      • Frank B.

        we are old school… we didn’t grow up during the DJ era. he is idoiized by many. we tend to looked at with a different point of view.

    • steve (different one)

      Jeter is overpaid, but his contract is far from the worst ever.

      until this year, Jeter has been extremely durable and extremely consistent.

      here are his OPS+ numbers through the first 8 years of his deal:
      123
      111
      125
      114
      125
      132
      121
      102

      to get that from your SS is fantastic. is it worth $19M a year? maybe not. is it worth $15M? sure. can the Yankees afford to overpay their franchise player a little? you betcha.

      i don’t think they should give him a 4 year extension at age 37 or anything, but his old contract hasn’t been nearly as bad as you are making it out to be.

    • Sweet Dick Willie

      Jeter’s contract is probably the most obscene contract ever given to a player.

      According to Fangraphs http://www.fangraphs.com/stats.....osition=SS, Jeter cost more than he was worth every year of his contract (2002-2008, it only goes back to 2002) except for 2006, but not by very much. He was paid $132.2 mil for those 7 years , but was “worth” only $104 mil.

      So to say that it is the most obscene contract ever seems to be a bit of an exaggeration.

      • steve (different one)

        good to see that my “gut feeling” numbers were almost exactly right. he’s been overpaid by “only” about $4M/year, like i said originally.

    • Ed

      Is Jeter overpaid based on his performance on the field? Certainly.

      Factor in all the merchandise, ticket sales, publicity, etc that he generates and the Yankees are making a huge profit off his contract.

      • Ryan S.

        That’s right. Jeter puts asses in the seats. He’s the iconic player of this era of the Yankees and he’s right up there with Tiger Woods, Peyton Manning, or LaBron James in terms of marketability . Since he is an overall above average SS, there was nothing wrong with “overpaying” the guy by my guestimation of about $40M over 10 years since he is not a detriment to the team and he probably brings the franchise as much money and positive press attention as any player has done for any team at least since free agency.

        In regards to his upcoming free agency situation, what I would want to see happen is a 2/30 contract, but I think a likelier situation is something like 3/50, which I could still tolerate. I sure do hope he’s the starting LF in 2011 by the absolute latest though … 2010 would be preferred.

  • steve (different one)

    too early to worry about.

    we still have 2 more years of data coming before a decision has to be made.

    if he bounces back and hits like he did in 2007 with the defense from 2008, they’ll keep him around. if he continues the offensive decline he showed last year, they will have a difficult decision to make.

    he came on strong at the end of 2008, so i feel pretty good about Jeter in 2009. i expect a moderate bounce back. something in the 110-115 OPS+ range.

    if he can keep his offense in that area, the Yankees can probably afford an OBP-heavy 110 OPS+ in LF.

  • Yank Crank 20

    Sorry, off topic, but on Lohud today a commenter took a shot at yesterdays guest RAB entry on Lohud. Today’s was from Respect Jeter’s Gangster and this is what Gianthinker said:

    “Let me be honest, I hate these pinch hit articles. I will say however that this is the first pinch hit article that I’ve enjoyed. To be real, it was pointless. But it made me laugh and instead of reading some crazy theory on Damon being the greatest Yankee signing of all time or something like that I’m glad this was a satire piece to lighten things up. Thanx.”

    Something tells me he didn’t get the point of the RAB post.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      As you can see, I’m heartbroken.

    • jsbrendog

      thank god. let him stay over there and propose ipk/melky trades

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

      I’m quite familiar with that commenter. His comment is unsurprising.

  • http://www.myspace.com/earlweaverplaque Ace

    I say let him play shortstop for another 3 or 4 years after his contract runs out. How many games can we actually lose as a direct result of having him at short?

    • Reggie C.

      Reliable defense up the middle is too important to leave it in the hands of a guy who’ll be 36 in a couple years.

      • jsbrendog

        vizquel is 64 and he still plays sjhort…albeit rather well defensively

        • Reggie C.

          How many Vizquel types have there ever been?

        • steve (different one)

          sure, but Vizquel was starting from a much higher point defensively than Jeter before they both started to decline.

  • Reggie C.

    I’d love to see DJ’s successor be one of the following: hanley, stephen drew, or jose reyes.

    Stephen Drew is the one to keep an eye on. Rep’d by Boras, Drew is unlikely to sign away more years at cheap dollars. That makes it very unlikely that the D’Backs could afford to sign Drew long-term, but it also makes him a terrific trade chip. I think they start hearing offers in a couple seasons.

    • http://asportsaddictneedsdivineintervention.blogspot.com/ E-ROC

      Stephen Drew won’t be at SS for long.

  • http://asportsaddictneedsdivineintervention.blogspot.com/ E-ROC

    In words of Lil’ Wayne, Go DJ, that’s my DJ!

  • Doug

    Jeter has to moved out of short before we even consider resigning him. If he refuses, let him walk.

    • anonymous

      “let him walk”

      This shows you dont understand a thing about this organization.

      • Doug

        please explain to me what i don’t undertand

        • steve (different one)

          he means they never draw a line with old heroes. except for Bernie Williams. and Andy Pettitte.

          • Doug

            yes, the key is EXCEPT for bernie and andy. but those are the two most recent examples. and the yanks did (bernie) and are doing (andy) the right thing. to run a successful organization, you often have to think with your brain instead of your heart.

            hey, i’m a big derek jeter fan. but at 35 years old, he’s starting to show his age. he’s glorified singles hitter now and his glove is below average at short. and, yes, i know the metrics show he improved a bit in ’08. that just made him a below avg. fielding SS instead of the worst fielding SS.

            is this the type of player you sign to 4 years and $60M+? because you know he’s going to ask for at least posada money

            • CT Yankee

              Tino

              • Ed

                I don’t think there was any sort of rational thought put into the Tino situation.

                George saw the Yankees barely hit in the 2001 World Series, saw Giambi hitting free agency coming off MVP level seasons, and said “I want him at any cost” and outbid everyone drastically to get him.

  • Januz

    This question about Derek Jeter, and what the effect of Mark Teixeira will have on him was the one I talked about on yesterday (On Peter Abraham’s site where the RAB guys pinch hit for Peter). The reality of the matter is Jeter is an extremely prideful player, who will not tarnish his image for extra dollars. I suspect he will get his 3,000th hit, and then retire that season.
    I am of the opinion, that the Yankees have a long-term business strategy that involves Jeter, Teixeira, Alex Rodriguez and the new stadium, that will keep this franchise profitable for quite some time.
    It starts with the new stadium, with the novelty of the new stadium should pack in the fans for seasons 2009 & 2010. In addition, by having the stadium wired for current and future technologies by Cisco, they will help attract the 20 something (And younger) fans, and keep them, because they expect to have technology available to them at all times. Then it shifts to Jeter with the pursuit of 3,000 hits. Then to Arod with his chase for the home run record (Keep in mind, a big part of his contract involves marketing). Teixeira will be here to help win Championships, and by having competitive teams the next eight years, with at least two titles thrown in (Coupled with the Rodriguez HR chase), they should have very few days without sellouts.
    Finally, I fully expect that as Jeter winds down his career, he will retire in style with 3,000 hits and a ring for the thumb.

  • http://Thumb? Mike T

    I wonder how much a championship is worth. While Jeter is supposedly overpaid based on stats where does ‘the Play’ against Oakland get factored in? How much does that one play, which undoubtedly made a few pesos for the club, translate in Jeter’s worth. Do they win the AL if he doesn’t make it? What revenue is generated in the additional games the Yanks play in October which may not have been played if he doesn’t make the play? The Boston dive into the seats? The November homerun? ARod has certainly put up INCREDIBLE numbers in his career. How many ARod memories do we have that actually translated into the difference between a ring and an early fall?

    • Doug

      Mike, those are great memories as you said, some of the greatest Yankee memories EVER. And of course, they and he made the Yankees a lot of money. He still does as the face of the franchise. But, those memories are in the past and his play is starting to decline. So the key question is, in two years, what do you do with him when you know he’s going to ask for a new multi-year contract for a lot of money.

    • steve (different one)

      interesting point. but you are overlooking one point:

      the Yankees have won ZERO rings since Jeter signed his big contract.

  • Will

    I’ll probably get all kinds of crap for this but what if you swapped A-Rod and Jeter. Ripken moved to third after his abilities were limited. A-Rod was probably one of the best SS’s before he came to the Yankees. I’m sure everyone on here knows more about how easy/hard this move would be than I do, but it seems to me that it could make things easier. Heck Ripken could even talk to Jeter about it; its not like he’s being demoted if he understands that after a while ability just isn’t the same.

    • Doug

      Yeah, A-Rod was one of the best SS’s back then, but he’s a lot bigger now (and older of course). Not sure he’d be able to play any better a SS than Jeter could at this point.

  • Matt12

    I don’t even see how anyone can wonder if we should resign the Captain, he is by far one of the best players in the league. I will admit, he isn’t the best defensive shortstop in the game. And with Hanley Ramirez and Jose Reyes running around, he isn’t the best offensive shortstop in the game. But he is far from the worst all around shortstop in the game, in fact he is arguably the fourth best shortstop in the game.

    The only thing I’m wondering about, is which outfield position he moves to.

    I hate this “He doesn’t hit enough power for position X” crap, that’s such a joke. Anybody who buys into that needs to slap themselves in the face and get a grip on what baseball is about. Do you think Billy Martin would play by those rules? No way in hell. He’d say “As long as the lineup works, I don’t care who plays where as long as they play good defense there.” We have A-Rod, Posada, Teixeira, Matsui, Cano, Swisher, and Nady as 15+ HR hitters. You could probably throw Damon in there as well. Thats everybody but Jeter, who is also a 15+ HR hitter.

    Factor in the fact that six of those players, will probably hit 20+ homers. Three of those players will probably hit 30+ homers. So power, isn’t an issue. I’d bet that Jeter plays plus defense at the corners, and possibly plus defense in center field. And with three of our four infielders locks for 15+ HR with A-Rod and Teixeira 30+ HR hitters, I couldn’t care less if Jeter hits enough big flies to play right field.

    And if I know Brian Cashman, we’ll acquire somebody like JJ Hardy or Jhonny Peralta or maybe Ian Kinsler (whom was originally a shortstop). So shortstop will feature another above average offensive player. Offense will not be an issue. Imagine we move Jeter to center field right now, in 2009, and this is what our lineup would look like:

    LF – Johnny Damon (.281, 14 HR, 65 RBI)
    CF – Derek Jeter (.307, 14 HR, 73 RBI)
    1B – Mark Teixeira (.299, 36 HR, 121 RBI)
    3B – Alex Rodriguez (.293, 42 HR, 120 RBI)
    DH – Hideki Matsui (.288, 17 HR, 77 RBI)
    C – Jorge Posada (.277, 17 HR, 78 RBI)
    RF -Xavier Nady (.284, 23 HR, 86 RBI) or Nick Swisher (.240, 23 HR, 71 RBI)
    2B – Robinson Cano (.295, 17 HR, 86 RBI)
    SS – ???????

    Even if we used Cody Ransom as our SS, we’d be just fine offensively. And we’d still be fine if Jeter was the RF, and Damon was the CF, and Nady was the LF. Not that I’m recommending that, just that our offense is fine even if we have a player that “doesn’t fit enough to play right field”. And this is our 2009 offense. We could easily see Nady and/or Swisher dealt with a prospect or two to bring in a strong shortstop, and then see Matt Holliday in RF by 2010. So imagine that offense.

    In conclusion, what I’m trying to say is that Jeter is still a great player. And we should keep him around regardless of the asking price, because his offense is still great even if his defense is below average. The question to me, is where does he best fit in our outfield. Because he may not have the range for center field, but we have players that are better suited for the corners (Damon, Swisher, Nady). And before you guys can say it, I’ve heard Austin Jackson is better suited for the corners anyways….

    • Doug

      Well Matt, according to Win Shares, Jeter was the 9th best SS in the league last year.

      • Januz

        Doug the numbers that techno-geeks come up to rate players have zero credibility in the real world. When Elias ranks Billy Wagner, and Matt Capps rank ahead of Scott Kazmir, and Alex Rodriguez (Who is not “Good Enough” to rank in the top 50 players in the game), you know something is very distorted. I am extremely anti-Arod, but when you rate a career 15-11 pitcher (Capps) over him, that defies all reality.
        I have taken classes in Applied Statistics, Quantative Analysis, Probability Theory, Calculus, Business Economic Analysis and Business Forecasting, so I understand the mathematical principles involved. However, baseball like all sports, are not about rotisserie league stats, it is about timing. Not what you do but when you do it. That is what makes a Derek Jeter a Hall of Famer, his production in a big spot, not his numbers where he drives in 100 runs once in his career, or his perceved economic valuation.

        • steve (different one)

          what do the Elias rankings have to do with anything?

          everyone knows the Elias rankings are stupid, including the “techno-geeks”.

          stop trying to use Elias rankings as a way to lump together all advanced statistics.

          i know you posted this same rant at LoHud, and i am sure it played better over there, but most people here understand the Elias system is basically worthless.

          putting too much emphasis on stats is a mistake. but so is dismissing them altogether.

          • Januz

            I had a similiar rant that is true, but it was used to rebut the Anti-Jeter rant that was used here, and to let that person I am quite aware on how to manipulate data, and to use it to determine a certain outcome. The Win Shares rating him 9th best shortstop in the AL come to mind.
            As for the use of numbers, no one suggests dismissing stats altogether, but in order to get the entire picture , they must be used correctly. Perhaps the most underrated stat EVER is the fact that Joe DiMaggio had a 1 to 1 strikeout rati. That number alone, tells how great he was.

    • steve (different one)

      I don’t even see how anyone can wonder if we should resign the Captain, he is by far one of the best players in the league.

      is he?

      • Doug

        I think you know the answer to that

      • Matt12

        Hands down, Steve. And BTW, those stats are from Fangraph’s Projections.

        • steve (different one)

          i’m not sure “hands down” means what you think it does.

          • steve (different one)

            sorry, i was just being a smartass.

            “hands down” implies he’s one of the what, 5 best players? he’s clearly not.

            is he still one of the 20 best? probably.

            he’s still very good. i was just objecting to you saying he was “by far” one of the best. or “hands down” one of the best.

          • Matt12

            Does it mean “No question about it, Jeter is one of the best players in the league”? Because that’s what I was going for….

            • Matt12

              Well, when you have 30 teams and 25 players on each team, which amounts to 750 big leaguers at any given time, yeah, Jeter is easily in the top twenty, which hands down makes him one of the best.

              • steve (different one)

                i wouldn’t say he is in the top 20 of MLB.

                top 20 of the AL? probably.

                but that is not counting pitchers.

    • Doug

      By the way, I agree with you on moving Jeter to CF. I’d do it today

  • RobC

    I do not think the Yanks are panicing on this one.
    No brianer Jeter must move from SS
    possiblities are LF , CF if he has the range, or 2nd base if Cano doesn’t produce.
    What is the OPS Jeter vs Cano? I can see Cano not working out b/c he does not have plate discipline

  • ortforshort

    Jeter will be 36 this year and he is still playing at a high level. When you consider the whole package, he is still one of the most valuable players in the game. In two years, when his contract is up, we’ll see where we are. He’ll be thirty eight and shouldn’t stand in the way if there’s a young stud replacement avaiable. If there isn’t, and he’s still playing at near his current high level, resign him. He is a great athlete who keeps himself in great shape and he’s a tremendously positve presence in the clubhouse.

  • DanElmaleh

    What was all this talk about moving aging stars to 1b? When is the last time the Yankees did that? Roy Smalley for a bit between Chambliss and Mattingly? Doesn’t count. I guess you can go back to 68 or so and find Mantle there. Other than that, it did not happen with Paulie, Stanley, Winfield, Jackson or anyone… Having a good 1b is a good thing.

  • MikeD

    This probably isn’t worth worrying about, at least not yet. Unless he collapses over the next two seasons, which will make the decision any easy one, the Yankees will be signing Jeter to a new contract. Despite all their great hitters, they’ve never had one reach 3,000 hits, so Jeter’s a keeper for at least the next three seasons, which means he has a new contract coming.

    While Jeter did rate as the worst defensive SS over the past two years, that rating was mostly impacted by his ’07 season when he had a knee issue that substatially reduced his range. In ’08, his range improved to where it was at least acceptable. After he reaches 3,000, the amount of playing time he gets will be based on how well he can still hit. If he’s still .300, then he’ll serve as a combination of LF, DH, back-up SS where he can still generate 450 ABs. Don’t know why the press just assumes Jeter will have an issue moving off SS as he ages.

    • Ryan S.

      His UZR in ’08 was, I think, -0.4 … totally acceptable. If he can keep putting up a mediocre but not disgusting performance at SS, he should actually be good for a few more years at SS. I’m not projecting that to happen though … he’ll probably revert to being an unacceptable option within the next 2 years. However, his ’08 performance does give me a glimmer of hope that we might be able to do ok with him in the middle until we find a viable replacement.

  • ortforshort

    Fielding stats, by their nature, are incredibly unreliable. Too much subjectivity, not enough quantifiable info to make them work. Relying on fielding stats alone is a fools game. You need to use judgement in large doses when evaluating defense. Hopefully, Yankee brass doesn’t put nearly as much stock in these bogus numbers as some of the bloggers here do.

  • James

    I totally disagree with all above. WTF is A-ROD? HE is A CHOKE EVERYTIME. PERIOD.

  • Mike

    What about Jeter to 2b or 3b and move Arod to DH or Cano to another team? There are plenty of permutations…but LF or DH are the most likely options