Jan
26

Yanks, Pettitte in “serious talks”

By

This is some good news on a sunny Monday in New York City. According to SI’s Jon Heyman, the Yankees are in serious talks with Andy Pettitte. Heyman relates that “there is a lot of optimism a deal will get done.” This would be a nice way to round out the rotation. Strangely enough, Heyman also notes that Pettitte will receive less than $10 million guaranteed. Sounds like another incentive-laden deal, a popular notion this winter.

Ken Rosenthal elaborates a bit:

However, the deal will include incentives that could push Pettitte close to his 2008 salary of $16 million, the amount he was seeking on a one-year deal.

The thing with incentives is that they can’t be based on stats; they have to be based on innings or starts. So if Pettitte is ineffective, the Yankees will be forced to pull him from the rotation in order to avoid paying his escalators. That could be another tough situation down the line.

Update by Mike (12:47pm): Buster Olney says Pettitte would receive close to $6M in guaranteed money, with incentives that could push the total payout to $12M.

Categories : Hot Stove League

229 Comments»

  1. A.D. says:

    Interesting & excellent

  2. Tony says:

    its about time – this deal makes to much sense for both sides for it not to happen

  3. Evan says:

    This is really needed, this creates a 1-8 pitching staff that can go for a whole season. Hughes as a number 6 versus number 5 is going to make a huge difference on how the team can handle an injury. So what kind of fan reaction does Andy get after all this?

    • John NY says:

      And, Hughes/Aceves can be called on to cover for Joba when his innings start piling up. Yanks and Pettitte need to get this done. I think the reaction will be more positive then negative. If he starts pitching poorly, off bets are off!

      • Arin says:

        Exactly. I don’t think there will be a problem if Pettitte struggles and the Yankees choose to sit him in order to avoid hitting the escalators. Sure, it might piss Andy off, but if he’s not performing, then why should we pitch him?

        • Jay CT... Ben Sheets biggest fan says:

          For some reason, I don’t see them doing that. I know its what they SHOULD do, but something tells me he would have to be really bad (see Mussina circa 2007) to get pulled. Even Mussina got put back into the rotation after that whole episode.

          • Ed says:

            That was Torre though. Torre’s two great flaws were too much trust in veterns and bullpen management. We know Giradi can handle a bullpen much better than Torre, but we’ll see about the veteran issue.

          • Arin says:

            Joe Torre was the manager then, though. Now, with our kids coupled with the fact that the other Joe is managing now, I don’t see how there’s anyway that something like that could be repeated.

    • Ryan S. says:

      11 GS, 57.2 IP – thats how much time in AAA Hughes has put in so far (and that’s over a span of 2 seasons). There is absolutely no harm in Phranchise being the #6 starter and spending most of his year at AAA barring a major injury to one of the top 5. If Andy does indeed sign up for one last year, I think its thats the best possible outcome for Hughes in addition to the Yankees (which is all that really counts anyway). He’ll end up in the rotation in 2010 at age 23 if he performs up to his potential and should be in good enough condition to pitch 180ish innings at that point.

    • Lets Talk About Tex Baby says:

      I think 99% of Yankee fans will forgive Pettitte for holding out as soon as he takes the mound, especially since he didn’t get what he wanted. I don’t think Girardi will have a problem pulling him from the rotation if he stinks. The more interesting and more likely scenario is, let’s say at mid-season Pettitte’s pitching OK, say 4.40/1.35, Burnett’s healthy and Joba’s crusing as a starter. Meanwhile, Hughes is lighting up AAA. Unfortunately in this case, I think Pettitte stays and Hughes gets blocked.

      That being said, though, this is still the right move. Having too many pitchers usually works itself out. Burnett will miss 10 starts, Joba will be on an innings limit, so it doesn’t hurt to have veteran insurance. More than likely, Hughes will be able to get a good number of major league starts during the season and we avoid the possibility of having Joba, Hughes and another kid all in the rotation at once if Burnett goes down, which puts a big strain on the bullpen.

  4. ryan says:

    gee what a shock

  5. Kilgore Trout says:

    Yanks will be much better with Andy, but I feel for hughes. Scranton is a pathetic place to call home.

    • steve (different one) says:

      Hughes will still have chances this year.

      teams don’t go through the season with only 5 starters very often.

      • radnom says:

        Especially not teams that have AJ Burnett on them.
        Not to mention Joba’s inning’s limits. There will be plenty of ML innings for Hughes this season if he can step up.

    • Scranton is a pathetic place to call home.

      Somewhere in the nation’s capital, Joe Biden just cried a single tear.

      • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

        Joe Biden’s connection to Scranton is not valid. The man has lived and been in Delaware so long. Most business people in Delaware that I know called him “The King of Delaware” and did not know he was from Scranton until the day he signed on to be Mr. Obama’s VP and sidekick.

        • I’m not co-authoring a biography about him, Verducci-style. I’m just referencing that Crazy Joe Biden likes to talk about growing up in shitty, hardscrabble Scranton constantly, in like every one of his speeches.

          The connection may be tenuous, but it’s certainly not invalid (in CJB’s eyes.)

          • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

            “I’m not co-authoring a biography about him, Verducci-style.”

            LOL I know. I was not taking a shot at you. I was throwing a jab at the man. Joe likes to rewrite his own history as much as he likes to “borrow” other peoples words as his own.

            I have been to Scranton a few times, there is nothing in Scranton and that is why Joe’s daddy left to get his son involved in Politricks in lil ole DE (small state but big corp money)

            • Zack says:

              “there is nothing in Scranton ”
              nothing?? you call dunder-mifflin nothing???

            • kimonizer says:

              If you grew up somewhere for ten years you would probably end up relating to and having local recognition of that place as your hometown as well. Think of most kids who come to the US from other countries at that age. My dad came from Greece to the US at age 16 and he is every bit Greek with the accent and cultural and culinary preferences to prove it. But he has lived here almost 55 years. So, just because someone has lived somewhere a long time doesn’t make their connection to that place invalid.

        • Will says:

          Biden lived in Greenville, DE. It’s one of the wealthiest areas in the entire country.

  6. Arin says:

    What a great way to start the week.

  7. Mike says:

    Nice. Hold out for less money.

  8. AndrewYF says:

    Over/Under on how many games a journeyman starter will start this year:

    8

    • Arin says:

      Please let it be the under.

    • J.R. says:

      Under, we’ll have Hughes, Aceves, IPK as our three backup starters.

    • AndrewYF says:

      I think this is a good over/under on how many starters the Yankees will use as well.

    • AndrewYF says:

      And just a note, the Yankees gave 15 starts to Ponson, 3 starts to Dan Giese, 1 start to Kei Igawa, and 7 starts to Carl Pavano, for a total of 26. This doesn’t include Rasner’s 20 starts.

      Imagine a scenario where Burnett goes down for a month, Hughes and Kennedy either suck or are injured, Joba goes down for a month, and Pettitte retires.

      • Jay CT... Ben Sheets biggest fan says:

        Well, imagine a scenario where ARod and Jeter crash into each other, thus ending both of their seasons as they both break their legs. We can always think up a worst case scenario, but usually that is not what happens, and you cannot be prepared for it, because it is the worst case scenario.

    • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

      15

  9. ???? says:

    I understand Andy gives us more depth but I want Hughes not Andy. What good will AAA do for Hughes? He has proven he can be great at AAA now he has to prove he can be good in a full major leauge season.

    • AndrewYF says:

      He actually hasn’t proved all that much at AAA.

      The big thing for Hughes is not performance, but health. Staying healthy in AAA is not much different than staying healthy in the big leagues.

      • Evan says:

        Also Hughes needs to show he can go late into games something he has had troubles doing because he throws too many pitches early. Him and Joba in back to back starts would have put a lot of strain on the bull pen and just that much more pressure on CC to go later into games.

        • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

          I agree Evan.

        • rbizzler says:

          I am not sure that they are going to stretch Hughes out in AAA and let him go deep into games. My guess is that he will be getting pulled after 5-6 innings in order to keep a large portion of his innings available for the big club.

          This is strictly my intuition and I have no info to back this up.

          • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

            I do not doubt that but I think it is a bad move. The kid needs to learn how to pitch deep into the game, he has the stuff and the pitches to do so.

    • UWS says:

      I, too, would’ve preferred Hughes over Andy, but additional AAA time might do the kid good. He can use it to refine his cutter and changeup, until the inevitable injury bug bites someone on the big-league roster or Joba needs time off.

      • Jay CT... Ben Sheets biggest fan says:

        Exactly. Plus Phil is still really young, so this is not going to hurt him.

        • Jay CT... Ben Sheets biggest fan says:

          And, having two lefties in our rotation is not a bad thing at all, especially if they can both pitch above average innings.

    • Mike says:

      Yeah he hasn’t proven that at all. He has 11 career starts at AAA. Let him get in a full season, or atleast most of a season, to work on his pitches a little more and it will do nothing but good for him. No reason to rush him at this point in his career. He is 22.

    • A.D. says:

      Hughes only has 58 AAA innings with an ERA ~4.00. So he really hasn’t proven that much.

      Why I wouldn’t mind seeing Hughes pitch in the majors, taking a year at AAA, isn’t going to be terrible.

  10. Nigel Bangs says:

    promoting hughes/aceves slowly over the course of the season could really work out great. gives the kids a chance to pitch without massive pressure to their psyche or arms, gives pettitte a chance to rest a little extra when he needs it, and it gives the yankee bottom-line a legitimate reason to effectively minimize andy’s starts and thus keeping his pay down.

    • promoting hughes/aceves Kennedy slowly over the course of the season could really work out great.

      We all love the Mexican Gangster, but let’s not forget that IPK still has a better chance of becoming a good big league pitcher than Aceves. Aceves may be called up first, but the long-term depth chart is still Hughes-Kennedy-Aceves, not Hughes-Aceves-Kennedy.

      • jsbrendog says:

        yeah aceves came out of the mexican league when no one kne whwo he was or cared. not saying that makes him any worse at all, just saying that puts him lower on the depth chart. he is older as wlel is he not? fact check? buehler?

        • whozat says:

          He is older, yes. And he doesn’t really have a plus pitch. He’s Mexicarasner, possibly with better location. Fine as long as he doesn’t get over-exposed, but a swingman/5th starter in the NL most likely.

  11. Januz says:

    There is little doubt that the Yankees have the most complete team in the division, and if Pettitte is resigned, it makes them look even stronger than Boston and Tampa. Boston’s lineup is not close to the Yankees, and Tampa’s bullpen is questionable (At best).
    These three teams are probably the three best in the American League, (The Angels took a major hit losing Tex, KRod, and probably Garrett Anderson). I think that when all is said and done, the Yankees will win the division, and Tampa will be the team on the outside looking in.

    • steve (different one) says:

      i tend to agree.

      • I’d still go:
        1) NYY
        2) TBA
        3) BOS

        and not put Boston in front of Tampa, like you two did. Boston is aging (worse than we are), they benefited from several career years last year (like DiceK, Pedroia, Youkilis) and they’re likely to regress, and they didn’t add much of anything in the offseason (just longshot fillers and bench depth).

        • radnom says:

          I think a lot depends on the health of Lowell and Papi, as well as how their revamped bullpen fairs which anyone can only guess at now.
          I think if all those things work out, they could edge out a Tampa team that last year befitted from some career years themselves, as well as some ridiculously good luck in the injury department.
          I think both teams are likely to regress, but Boston has the payroll flexibility to make a move at the deadline this year to significantly improve. Right now though, I’ll take Tampa’s team on paper as well.

        • I Remember Celerino Sanchez says:

          Agreed. The Red Sox need a lot to go perfectly for their pitching to be post-season worthy. They are relying on a lot of injury comebacks (Smoltz, Penny, Saito), plus an old guy not dropping off (Wakefield) and success from a guy who managed to go 18-3 with a 2.90 ERA (and a 159 ERA+) last year despite only averaging 5 plus innings a start and walking 94 guys in 167 innings (Dice K).

          Sure, it could happen. And it could all collapse, too. If Gammons and the rest of the ESPN Sox fans were honest, the Sox are a risky bet for 2009.

        • steve (different one) says:

          i still put some weight on Boston’s ability to fill holes mid-year. they have the prospects and the cash to make any trade they want to.

          the Rays have the prospects, but may not have the cash.

    • Jay CT... Ben Sheets biggest fan says:

      I would still like to see Juan Cruz signed.

  12. pat says:

    As a nice little corollary alfredo and ipk can get a chance to build trade value while stationed in scranton. Even though he’s not really a marquee name like cc or teix, alot of this offseason hinged on andy’s 200ip helping to stablize a somewhat suspect rotation. We like to think optimistically, but truth be told joba and burnett are not guarantees to pitch 140 and 200 innings respectively. Now instead of hughes bringing up the 5th spot and ipk the emergency starter we have hughes as the emergency starter and ipk as the disaster plan.
    Very good. Now we just need a super utility glove and ill be happy.

  13. Jamal G. says:

    I think people are truly underestimating how better of a year Andy Pettitte had than what is perceived. Let’s take a look at some numbers:

    *The 6.97 K/9 rate was the second best he has posted in the past four seasons (2006: 7.47).
    *The 2.43 BB/9 rate was the second best he has posted in the last five seasons (2005: 1.66), and the best in the last three.
    *The 2.87 K/BB ratio was the second best he has posted in the last five seasons (2005: 4.17), and the best in the last three.
    *The K/100 rate of 4.83 was well above the average starting pitcher who threw at least 100 big-league innings in 2008 (4.54).
    *The 1.41 WHIP and 3.71 FIP was the best he has posted in the last three seasons.
    *The GB/FB ratio of 1.87 was the best of his last three seasons.
    *The 19.9 LD% was the second-best rate he has posted since the 2002 season (2007: 19.4%).
    *The GB% of 51.5 was the highest it’s been since his 2004 campaign with the Houston Astros (52.8%).
    *The 80.8 Contact Percentage he posted was less than the 2008 A.L. Cy Young winner, Cliff Lee (83.6%); America’s favorite cancer-survivor, Jon Lester (82.6%); Houston ace, Roy Oswalt (82.2%); 2008 breakout star, Gavin Floyd (81.7%); in my opinion, the best starting pitcher in MLB, Roy Halladay (81.5%); 2006 rookie phenom, Justin Verlander (81.4%).
    *Not only did 2008 Andy Pettitte provide nearly $20,000,000 worth of value ($19.9), he actually was 43.7 runs above replacement level. How special is that for an AL East pitcher in his age-36 campaign? Well, that’s more runs above a replacement-level starter than Cole Hamels, James Shields, Chad Billingsley, Felix Hernandez and Matt Cain.

    So, in essence, Andy Pettitte’s 2008 campaign was much, much better than what his 14-14 record, 4.54 ERA and 98 ERA+ might lead you to believe.

  14. Evan says:

    Lets sign Juan Cruz after Andy and call it an off season.

    CC
    Wang
    AJ
    Pettitte
    Joba
    (Hughes/Kennedy/Aceves)

    BP: Mo, Cruz, Marte, Bruney, Coke, Veras, Edwar/Albaledejo/Sanchez

    Best pitching staff in baseball hands down.

    • Januz says:

      The Yankees don’t really need Cruz. They are keeping a space open for Mark Melancon, who Cashman considers his most “Untouchable” prospect.

      • They are keeping a space open for Mark Melancon, who Cashman considers his most “Untouchable” prospect.

        Where did he ever say, or indicate, that? He’s reluctant to trade Melancon. He’s never made Melancon his most “untouchable” prospect. Hughes, IPK, Montero, AJax, Betances, Brackman, etc. would have something to say about that.

      • whozat says:

        They are keeping a space open for Mark Melancon,

        Having Bruney and Veras in there IS keeping a spot available for Melancon. At least one of those guys will walk enough batters that he won’t be more than merely adequate this season.

  15. rbizzler says:

    Starting Hughes at AAA and letting him find his rhythm and work on commanding all of his pitches is definitely a good thing and a luxury they can afford if Andy signs.

    I think signing Andy is a good move and given injuries and innings caps there will be more than enough opportunities for Hughes (and probably Aceves) to contribute this year.

  16. Booch says:

    Finally, I think doing the incentive deal works out for everyone. Pettitte can prove he is worth 16 mil by putting up or shutting up. He’ll be the first to say he isn’t getting it done during the season so I don’t think it is going to be a problem if he sucks. It’s gutsy taking less money with incentives then guaranteed money.

    I might be jumping the gun here but, when all is said and done, Andy is still a stand up guy. Goes to show we shouldn’t believe anything until a decision is made.

  17. “So if Pettitte is ineffective, the Yankees will be forced to pull him from the rotation in order to avoid paying his escalators. That could be another tough situation down the line.”

    Oh, if only we still had Joe Torre, super-smart manager of personalities, around to deal with this future uncomfortable personnel issue!!!

    Sorry, couldn’t resist.

  18. Nady Nation says:

    Hopefully this deal does indeed get done. This is a great, solidifying move for the Yanks’ rotation, as Jamal summed up nicely above. I love Hughes, but he will DEFINITELY get his chances at some point this year in the bigs, especially given Burnett’s injury history, Joba’s innings cap, and leaving room for a freak injury or too (a la CMW last year). If he doesn’t get his shot(s), that probably means that the rest of our rotation was healthy enough to make it through the year, which would be totally awesome – as the Rays found out firsthand last year. Thankfully, Hughes is only 23 years old and Andy is taking a one year deal, paving the way for a full-time rotation spot for Hughes in 2010, while allowing him to refine his pitches this season at AAA.

  19. Scott of 3 Kids Tickets says:

    I still want Junior Griffey off the bench. I don’t hear teams knocking on his door so why not? We need a proven veteran bench guy (like Straw, Raines, Chili Davis, etc…)

    -Scott

    • jsbrendog says:

      i was thinking about this the other day and i like it. but the problem is you already have nady/swisher/damon/melky/gardner/matsui.

      thats 6 guys. you cant have mroe than 4 of unless the 5th one can play the infield somewhere. so lets say, the 25 man roster, we know 12 pitchers, 5 starters, closer, and 6 other dudes in the pen. that leaves 13 spots. you cant tie up 6 of those with guys who can only play the of. then you have 7 left. 2 catchers thats 5. one each of the infielders. that leaves on spot for a utility infielder and with just one guy say cody ransom, what happens if more than one guy needs a day off, or gets injured ina game, or etc etc etc. you cant have 5 (cause matsui obv cant play the of so we’ll chalk him up to the edgar martinez/big papi dh position) outfielders who cant do anything else.

      while i agree with you itd be nice, and i was thinking about it myself, unfortunately it is just not plausible.

    • Jamal G. says:

      What’s wrong with Xavier Nady or Nick Swisher?

    • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

      The problem I see with that is Straw, Raines and Chili Davis did not get hurt ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the time. Plus Straw and Raines got their roles and embraced them something I do not expect from Griffey in a similar situation. Also only reason we got Straw was because the Boss forced it to happen.

      Also I have heard and read over the years that he feels like his pops was treated poorly while in Pinstripes and he would not want to play here.

      • Also I have heard and read over the years that he feels like his pops was treated poorly while in Pinstripes and he would not want to play here.

        Yeah, he’s gone on record lots of times saying he’d never play for the Yankees. Although, age (and the lack of a ring) does change a man’s priorities, so you never know…

        • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

          Agreed. I just do not want the guy on our team. He gets hurt a ton. He is hobbled by his injuries. He is nowhere near as good as Nady or Swisher at this point in his career. The only way I see him as a possibly value is if he took the minimum salary and was a pinch hitter (but I do not see the roster spot being available for such luxuries)

          Plus he is effeminate (that is a lil joke for you just in case you did not get it)

        • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi says:

          I don’t have a link to back this up (sorry), but I think he may have softened his anti-Yankees stance in the last year (maybe there was news about it around the trade deadline last year?). In any case, I think it’s kind of irrelevant – no room for him right now, and really not much of a need with the OF/DHs the Yanks have.

          • Scott of 3 Kids Tickets says:

            I must have read the same article….because he did soften his stance on the Yankees last year publically. It would require “losing” Nady/Swish &/or Matsuii, but to have him off the bench would be golden. He would also be alot less likely to get hurt as a role/bench player, and reach all kinds of records as a Yankee. Plus I think he’s the one guy that got along with Alex (the ex-Arod)

            -Scott

  20. MattG says:

    I must’ve missed the press conference in which Pettitte made George Costanza his agent.

    As much as this is probably the best option for the Yankees, this news saddens me. I don’t want Pettitte around. I would love to see Hughes get 25 starts and meet his Bill James projection. This move is due to all the injuries Yankee starters have suffered the last 2 years–not Pettitte’s talent, or a big need in the rotation.

    The Yankees are being too conservative here for my taste. I wish they could find something to do with $10-16M that had more upside, than shore up a spot they theoretically have covered. Is there no way that money can help get a plus CF?

    • jsbrendog says:

      refer to jamal’s post above.

      here, i’ll even help you out. basically, take out hsi shitty second half, you knw the “shit i did hgh and didnt tell them before they signed me and had to go to congress so i didnt really get to work out and prepare physically or mentally for the season so i kinda blew it and lost steam at the end of the yr as well as pitching through a minor strain because i didnt want them to have to have kei igawa pitch every 5th day” thing and he was damn good. ell above league average.

      http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ent-267185

      • MattG says:

        Unconvinced. I won’t argue the stats. But had Pettitte pitched to his FIP of 3.71, I would feel the same.

        This guy, this is not my type of guy.

        Call me a contrarian, but when a guy is beloved as Pettitte is, I can’t help but wonder what has he done to deserve it. And it Pettitte’s case, I am really flumoxed. I want to just right it all off to being drafted and developed by the organization, but all that good will should’ve been erased with his hissy-fit exit to Houston.

        He’s a great fit, I won’t argue. Personally, I wish he’d go pitch in Kansas City.

        • Jamal G. says:

          But had Pettitte pitched to his FIP of 3.71, I would feel the same.

          Not to be rude, but what does that even mean?

          • MattG says:

            If Pettitte’s performance last season matched his peripherals, I would feel the same about him personally as I do now. I do not want the 98 ERA+ pitcher, or the 3.71 FIP pitcher. I don’t like the guy, and I don’t want to root for him.

            I wish there were some better way to spend that money. There isn’t. Sheets is not a better option for this team–he’s a high-upside play for a team that could compete with an ace. There’s no one looking to dump a CF salary. Plus, they very well may need another starting pitcher (although they already have much more depth than most).

            Its the right thing to do. Dammit.

            • Jack says:

              If Pettitte’s performance last season matched his peripherals,

              I’m not sure what this is supposed to mean. His peripherals measure his performance.

            • Jamal G. says:

              So, let me get this straight: you are aware of the fact that Pettitte’s 3.71 FIP in 2008 was better than Cole Hamels, Ricky Nolasco, Felix Hernandez, James Shields, Matt Cain and Gavin Floyd; and that his FIP was within 0.20 points of Johan Santana (3.51) and Jon Lester (3.64), but you don’t want him for one year at $6M guaranteed because you “don’t like the guy”? Really?

        • A.D. says:

          He did pitch to a FIP of 3.71, by definition if that was his FIP, then he pitched to it.

          Whats interesting is his career FIP is also 3.71.

        • Call me a contrarian, but when a guy is beloved as Pettitte is, I can’t help but wonder what has he done to deserve it.

          Okay: You’re a contrarian.

          Personally, I want Pettitte back because I value what he can contribute to the 2009 Yankees. What happened in 2003 is utterly immaterial to how best to construct the 2009 Yankees.

          • MattG says:

            I’d sign him too. There is no better thing to do for the roster now, or in the foreseeable future/lifetime of the contract (1 year). There are a handful of objective reasons to sign him, and no objective reasons not to. But Cashman has been good to this guy, I don’t like they way he has acted, and I would welcome another alternative.

            Here’s hoping Hughes obliterates AAA, and a 12-2 Andy Pettitte, as the beneficiary of unholy run support, is dealt to Houston in July for Hunter Pence. (TNC, OK!)

        • Nady Nation says:

          “Call me a contrarian, but when a guy is beloved as Pettitte is, I can’t help but wonder what has he done to deserve it.”

          Seriously? You answered part of your own question, since he was drafted and developed by the Yanks. He was also a crucial part of the dynasty years, pitching many a big game throughout those playoff runs (Game 5 of the ’96 Series immediately comes to mind). And before the whole HGH mess, he was considered to be a stand-up, polite guy, and unlike Clemens, he did own up to his actions and apologize to the fans. Although his good-guy reputation may be tarnished, the fact is he was still a major part of those 4 championships.

          • MattG says:

            But he had as many absolute stinkers as he did gems in those years. For some reason, everyone forgets the stinkers.

            I don’t get the adoration for Andy Pettitte. He is not particularly stand-up–as a matter of fact, he often has many excuses mixed in with his “I gotta do betters.” Polite? Who cares?

            And he absolutely cannot handle a contract negotiation.

            Yet he still has his fans. Good for him.

            • The last thing Brian Cashman (or any GM) thinks about when deciding whom to add to his team is “will this guy be adored?”

              You know what fans adore? Wins.

            • whozat says:

              “But he had as many absolute stinkers as he did gems in those years. For some reason, everyone forgets the stinkers. ”

              This happens with everybody. People remember moments, not track records.

              You’re no different than the fans about whom you complain. Your Yankee personnel preferences are based on emotional thinking. They want Andy because they like him and consider him a Big Game Pitcher because he threw some good games in the dynasty years. You don’t want him because of the HGH or whatever you’re complaining about. It’s the same kind of decision making process.

              Most here want him for the reasons you acknowledge: he makes more sense than anything else out there.

              • MattG says:

                BTW, I could care less about the HGH. I am a McGwire for the hall guy.

                But Pettitte’s getting a pass for HGH, with his utterly unbelievable “I used it only twice” (the two times they happened to have written about) crap, followed by “I used it only 4 times” crap that came out a couple of weeks later, and, good god, what a miserable phony.

                I don’t care about the guy, really. If everyone else saw him as a phony, as I do, I would probably then find it easier to root for him. My problem seems to be with the perception of the guy seemingly so out of whack. He’s a christian, white, Texan, and a family man. But he’s also self-involved, a liar and a complainer. I got nothing against self-involved liars and complainers per se, unless they are universally adored for some odd reason.

    • Is there no way that money can help get a plus CF?

      No, there isn’t.

    • I Remember Celerino Sanchez says:

      MattG, last year we depended on Hughes for 25 starts, too. How did that work out? Adding Pettitte solidifies the starting pitching, which is the singel most important part of the team. We saw last year what a lack of staring depth can mean to a season. Sidney Ponson. With Pettitte as the fifth guy (however you order it), Hughes gets to start the year in AAA and work on his control. The depth is better, and it’s better for Hughes’s development. It’s a win-win. After last year, it would be foolish to go into the season counting on Hughes again.

      • MattG says:

        Who’s arguing? All those of you reading into my posts, I do not argue. Its a good move, a smart move. Credit Cashman. Double credit Cashman, because he has backed Pettitte at every instance, and Pettitte has done nothing to show his appreciation to Cashman. I have no doubt that Cash’s poor dog has an extra boot mark or two due to Pettitte’s immaturity, yet Cashman will compose his public persona and welcome the ingrate back.

        Its a win/win for everyone, unless you really dislike rooting for Andy Pettitte. As I happen to do.

        • I Remember Celerino Sanchez says:

          That’s more than fair. I don’t have the probelm with Pettitte that you do, but I understand, since there are/have been Yanks I hated rooting for.

  21. Jake H says:

    This just takes pressure off of Burnett and Joba. You can count on Wang and C.C to give you 200 innings. I know Wang is coming off a foot injury but that injury had nothing to do with his arm or shoulder. He should be able to throw another 200 easy.

  22. D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

    “So if Pettitte is ineffective, the Yankees will be forced to pull him from the rotation in order to avoid paying his escalators. That could be another tough situation down the line.”

    Might be tuff for Andy, but one thing I do respect about Girardi is he seems to not worry about these sorts of things. He told Moose last year to either pitch inside or go inside of the bullpen. Something Joe Torre should have done from jumpstreet.

    I told yall this dude was going to get a lower offer. If he is really going to be our number 5, it is going to be hard to get the innings total if they make it anywhere near 200 unless somebody else gets hurt and Andy gets moved up a slot or two.

    • jsbrendog says:

      he’s number 4. joba is number 5. for innings cap purposes so he can be skipped over. and for stupid bs you “don’t want to pitch two lefties in a row!!!11!!” notablt andy who owuld be “5″ and cc who would be “1″

      • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

        I have been hearing they wont put a significant limit on Joba’s innings. If Joba is the number 5 man will we get a ton of wins out of that spot.

        I still think I go with a one year deal with Sheets if i can get him over Andy, and put him at number 5 to limit his innings and try to keep him safe and sound come playoff time.

        • Ryan S. says:

          I’d accept Sheets as a starter for us, but I’d prefer Andy.

          • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

            So for even money same year(s) you take Andy? I take Sheets. Anybody else care to give their opinion on this one.

            • Nigel Bangs says:

              i’d take pettitte. what the yanks need is a guy to give you league-average or better innings. there’s no indication that sheets will be able to pitch this season, let alone to dazzle.

              • Yeah. If they were both going to take a 1yr/6M plus incentives, we’d all take Sheets, I’d assume, but only if we knew he was going to be healthy enough to pitch at least 150 innings.

                We don’t. That’s the fly in the ointment. And, if we DID know that Sheets as going to be healthy enough to pitch at least 150 innings, he’d never take a 1yr/6M plus incentives, so it’s a Catch-22.

                • Jay CT... Ben Sheets biggest fan says:

                  Yeah but the question was- “So for even money same year(s) you take Andy? I take Sheets. Anybody else care to give their opinion on this one”

                  I would go for Sheets, but I think either makes a lot of sense.

            • steve (different one) says:

              depends on the medicals. simple as that.

              and no one here has seen them.

            • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi says:

              Given what we know today, I take Pettitte. The promise/allure of Sheets makes the decision very tough for me, but we just don’t know if he’ll be healthy (and, in fact, indications are that he’s not and he won’t be). The higher-upside play isn’t always the better play.

              • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

                Thanks everybody for your opinions. If I could get Sheets at one year plus incentives I would do it in a heartbeat even with iffy medical records. I would then call Andy and see if he wanted a similar deal and try to sign both. No way that ever happens but that is how I would play it.

                • jsbrendog says:

                  dude you only have 25 spots and neither sheets or andy will take a minor league deal and neither will go to the minor leagues at all ever so then you have 8 startes? 7? 6?

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

                  You really think we enter May with all 5 of those fellows healthy?

                • May doesn’t matter. What matters is that we enter March with all 5 of those fellows on track to be healthy come April 1st, because Sheets isn’t going to just wait around until we get an injury in May to join the club. He’s going to sign somewhere and be in somebody’s camp when Spring Training opens.

      • Yup.

        1) CC
        2) Wang
        3) Burnett
        4) Andy
        5) Joba

        is my guess of the opening day order. But, really, the middle three don’t matter.

    • Ryan S. says:

      My pointless guess of what the rotation will be:

      -CC Sabathia
      -Chien Ming Wang
      -AJ Burnett
      -Andy Pettitte
      -Joba Chamberlain

      Regardless of the order those names are in though, its exciting to think about it.

      • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

        “Regardless of the order those names are in though, its exciting to think about it.”

        Agreed. One thing I tend to worry about is the possibly injuries with those names. CC too many innings the last two years and fades hard at the end. Wang coming off a season ending injury, and a small history of injuries. AJ everybody knows the concerns. Andy and his elbow, dead arm, HGH etc. Joba everybody knows the concerns there as well. I just do not feel that anybody is a lock to give up 200 plus good innings.

        The upside is that if they all can click and stay healthy the rest of baseball is in for a thrashing.

        • jsbrendog says:

          CC too many innings the last two years and fades hard at the end

          see cc circa august/september of 08. on 3 days rest. countless times.

          • Joseph P. says:

            CC Sabathia on September 28th, coming off three days’ rest for the third straight start:

            9 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 7 K

            Fading?

            • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

              “the end”

              The playoffs buddy. I care not what he does the last week of the season when we already have our playoff spot locked up, thats why I said “the end”. I want him to be with a full tank come playoff time. I did not say “the end of the regular season”.

              • Jamal G. says:

                If you don’t think those games at he end of the 2008 regular season were playoff-caliber games, then I don’t know what to tell you. The Milwaukee Brewers beat out the New York Mets by one game, every game Sabathia pitched in September were basically elimination games.

              • Well, hopefully, we won’t be in the Brewers position where we need to beat him like a rented mule just to GET into the posteason.

                I don’t get why you are quick to harp on CC’s bad 2008 postseason outing when he was probably only that bad because he pitched his arm off in the week before to get them into the postseason. It’s like being mad at Michelangelo for doing a mediocre job on the project right AFTER the Sistine Chapel.

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

                  Actually that is in fact my point. I am saying I do not want to put him in that position. I am not questioning his “heart”, “tuffness” or “grit” I am questioning the logic of counting on a guy for so many innings yet another year in a row with that many innings already on an arm of a man that pleasantly plump.

                  I really would like to see the pen give him as much rest as possible this year and possibly even skip him a few times in the rotation if we have the health and depth to do so.

                • pete says:

                  This is why I’m glad we have girardi. Remember how many times mussina came out last year after like 83 pitches?

              • Mike A. says:

                That WAS a playoff game. Brewers lose, they go home.

          • Ryan S. says:

            CC isn’t going to need to pitch 250ish innings this year though. We should have a strong bullpen and a high quality supporting cast for our Ace.

            I agree with Donnie, there is definitely a risk factor with every pitcher we have, but the same thing can be said about any rotation. Of the top of the my head, the Rays top 5 seems like the it has the greatest combination of durability, youth, and effectiveness and I can’t think of anyone else who is even close. Red Sox rotation has just as many questions and more valid concerns about their ace, Josh Beckett, than we do as of now with CC.

            You can look at CC’s 500 innings over the past 2 years as a risk, or you can also view it as a testament to his durability and good pitching frame (I am totally paraphrasing KLaw’s take here, I do not take credit for that observation)

  23. Thomas says:

    Could they give Pettitte his performance incentives based on his career, like A-Rod with his HR totals? Pettitte has 215 career wins (we’ll use wins because it is an easy counting stat). Could the Yankees give him $2 million for each of his 220, 225, 230, and 235 career wins, plus his base salary? It sound like this should be against the CBA, but it was allowable for A-Rod’s 600th and 700th career HR.

    Thoughts?

    • steve (different one) says:

      the Yankees had to call this a “marketing” bonus to get around the CBA.

      in other words, breaking the HR record was going to have such lucrative marketing implications, they were able to justify sharing some of that cash with A-Rod.

      i don’t think it would fly in Andy’s case.

      unless you’re going to buy the DVD od Andy’s 220′th win ;)

    • A.D. says:

      The idea behind the A-Rod HRs is that HR #600, 700, etc will bring extra value to the Yankees, as it will cause more merchandise opportunities along with more nationally televised games, more ad revenue etc.

      Pettitte’s win totals really have no value to the Yanks, other then they are of course winning games. My guess would be the incentives would be innings mainly, to protect against health, and then maybe something with wins/where he finishes in ERA, for protecting against effectiveness.

      While wins aren’t really a measure of effectiveness, if the Yanks keep sending him out there, and he picks up wins, they’re getting for better or worse what they want & what they’re willing to pay for.

  24. steve (different one) says:

    Update by Mike (12:47pm): Buster Olney says Pettitte would receive close to $6M in guaranteed money, with incentives that could push the total payout to $12M.

    is this the part where everyone who called Cashman an “idiot” for not offering Pettitte arbitration comes back to admit they were wrong?

      • Update by Joe: Having paid close attention to the Hot Stove, I’ve noticed a lack of mentions for Bobby Abreu. When I did hear his name, it appeared that most teams preferred Raul Ibanez to him.

        Joe = Nostradamus
        Ruben Amaro = not very bright

        • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

          Let us make that Ruben Amaro Jr = not very bright. His dad is a wonderful guy, it is just his son that deserves what you kids call the facepalm.

          The Phillies are the bone heads of the century. They let the two guys that won them the first WS of this ownership (they copped the team in 84 I believe) walk out the door less than a week after doing it. Then they hire the biggest yes man mook with a nice diploma they could get their hands on.

          • Fair enough. Every time I think back on Amaro Jr.’s decision to jettison Burrell for Ibanez (and give up a pick in the process), I scratch my head. There’s literally like 10 better options there; he picked one of the worst ones.

            • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

              You and everybody else that knows anything are dumbfounded by that move. At the time it was horrible. Now it looks more horrible.

              Nobody (fans, sports casters, radio guys, local writers) in Philly has anything to say but that Burrell (while mispronouncing his name) is greedy.

              I have spent a significant time in the Philly area in my life and the fans as a group are pretty unaware. They all hated Stand Pat until the day they got to the WS. They all hated their manager until they beat Joe Torre (their manager is not very good thou so I do not fault them on that point).

              Amaro Jr. is just another stooge in the long ling of stooges in Philly. Stand Pat was the exception to the rule.

      • steve (different one) says:

        that thread is brutal.

        so much wrongness.

        that’s why it’s so easy to be a GM on the internet.

        you get to criticize all you want, but you are rarely called out when you turn out to be wrong.

    • Thomas says:

      No, in arbitration Pettitte is probably making at least $14 million and most likely more.

      • Joseph P. says:

        No one has ever had their salary reduced in the arbitration process. It would not start with Pettitte.

        • Thomas says:

          I know no has had their salary reduced, I was just saying if it were to happen it still probably would not be a salary less than $14million (more than the possible $12 million in this contract). Pettitte would almost certainly get a raise.

    • http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ent-264405

      Jason (Pitt): If you are proven wrong about Alvarez vs. Smoak, Hosmer, etc… will you write a column, or at least publicly admit to it? Seems only fair….

      Keith Law: (2:09 PM ET ) Oh, look, a dumb idea found a new friend. Why would I write an entire column about that?

      • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

        Yet another reason why I do not like Keith Law. No way he would ever come out his mouth like that to a person not on email. I do not dig people who talk one way online or in a paper but would not say the same thing to somebody up close and personal.

        The guy asked “or at least publicly admit to it?” this as well.

        • Okay. Thank you for criticizing Law for his content and not superficial things like his appearance.

          See, it’s not hard.

          • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

            I think you and the other guy took only part of what I said and made it mean what you wanted it to mean.

            I said I find him creepy and effeminate. Mostly not based on his looks but the way he talks and the things he says. I also said something to the effect that I find him uninteresting and the only things I tend to agree with him on are ones that I seem to believe are super obvious stuff.

            But appearance and the way you present themselves are not just superficial. I do not wholly judge any person by the way they present themselves but I do use it as part of the process in determining the value I place on their opinions and the time I wish to spend listening to them.

            • http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ent-264674

              I know everybody likes Law on here but that guy seems a bit too creepy and effeminate for me to want to listen to about baseball. He raises good points at times but they are always the super obvious.

              Explain to me how that statement is not saying that Law’s supposed “femininity” does not mean that his opinions on baseball are not to be respected.

              You’re not saying he’s “uninteresting”. You’re saying that since he’s “creepy and effeminate”, he shouldn’t be talking baseball. You’re implying that only a “man’s man” should have insights on baseball worth discussing. You’ve said as much numerous other times.

              • http://riveraveblues.com/2008/.....ent-216961

                “I just read an interview somebody did with Gammons yesterday and he was making a huge deal about the Yanks luxury box deal with the city. Seriously this guy is in the Red Sox pocket and always has been but much more so with this new ownership. I really do not get how he is in the Hall of Fame. I know other writers love the fact that he made it about him and showed them the blueprint to being “somebody” on TV etc, but he is a joke of a little man.

                Does anybody think he ever even played t ball? I do not trust a guy who spends his whole live working in sports and never played ball on any level, including sandlot (he has got to be one of two, Lupica might be the other one)

                More of the same. The world is full of evil, girlymen nerds who’ve never been man enough to play baseball, and if you’re not man enough to play baseball, you’re opinions and insights are worthless.

              • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

                No again no. I could care less if a flaming gay man was a writer for SI or worked for Fox Sports or ESPN or wherever. I am not calling the fellow gay. I said I find him creepy and effeminate. I am not one to mince words. I made a comment in passing in a thread like a week ago and for some reason you care so much about it. The real deal is I do not like him for many reasons. I know he is the current king of statdom in cyberland right now due to his ESPN exposure, but I do not like the guy and find him to be creepy, effeminate, and boring.

                You can find him refreshing, macho and entertaining for all I care. Opinions are like……

                Just do yourself a favor and do not worry so much about my opinions on people neither of us know personally MMMMK?

                • I made a comment in passing in a thread like a week ago and for some reason you care so much about it.

                  No, Donnie, you didn’t make a comment in passing. You’ve made mountains and mountains of comments that all add up to the same thing: you think there are girlymen nerds everywhere that are ruining the game. It’s not some isolated incident that I harp on, it’s your leitmotif.

                  I don’t “care so much about it”, I comment on it as it arises. I dig up old shit on you because you constantly try to spin what you said before as being something not historically accurate, as being innocuous and isolated when it’s consistent and repeated.

                  Just do yourself a favor and do not worry so much about my opinions on people neither of us know personally MMMMK?

                  For the billionth time, if you don’t want your opinions examined and criticized, STOP SHARING THEM. I never once have told anyone to not examine my opinions for their validity.

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

                  First off do not call me Donnie. You said that you did not like being called what I called you and I did not continue. I said I prefer to not be called Donnie and you agreed. You are a constant liar and instigator of problems.

                  For the billionth time if you take such personal umbrage with me as a person I have given you every option to do something about it up close and personal.

                  You have declined. So fall back from making up things about my opinions and feelings because buddy you do not know me.

                • Sorry for the “Donnie”. Force of habit.
                  DBHOF it is.

              • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

                Seriously dude I think you might have issues with you own masculinity or something to get this upset over something I did not say or mean. I said my points. I called none of the three fellows gay or anything. But here is another thing if somebody said or thought somebody was who cares? What would that mean to you?

                I do not respect a guys opinion on baseball if he never played t ball or sandlot ball or ball at some level. It shows a lack of interest in the game itself. Only way I would feel differently is if the guy or woman was not allowed to do so because of some physical disability.

                But you need to stop E-stalking me and combing over old posts of mine to try to prove something that is not there.

                This is like saying somebody is a racist (as much as I hate that term because there is only one human race, the rest is just skin color and ethnic differences which are minuscule at best ) which you have made dumb statements like that at me as well.

                You are the king of taking one thing and trying to bend it into what you want it to be.

                Nobody can prove they are not “racist” if called one. Making accusations like that are reckless if you do not know it to be fact and then cross check it.

                You do not know me holmes, so ease off telling me who I am and what I think especially when I have clearly expressed my feelings after being asked and bothered by you about it so many times.

                • jsbrendog says:

                  to chime in, you just questione dhis masculinity because he is proving you wrong. he s showing with facts that you make these statements ocnstantly and then try to deny/change/alter/explain differently/justify them. i have seen it as well. this all goes back to you personally attacking ppl because they think bernie has better stats than mattingly which is a fact just as this is.

                  if you dont want your opinions analyzed, stop shatring them. i agree. if not, then take it for what ti is. a factual analysis with evidence you yourself typed.

                  now go ahead and question my manhood or say im a retard with a disability too. i know you want to because thatbs what you have consistently done.

                • Fine, you don’t want me to bring up old shit, then stop changing your position and claiming that you didn’t say something you did. It’s not “e-Stalking” you, it’s just doing a quick and simple Google Search. You said it, it’s in the public record.

                  And I’m not “getting upset” with you about your opinion about Keith Law and his masculinity. I’m just pushing you to back up the statements you make, same as what I do to everybody else, same as what everybody else does to me and everyone on this board. If you can’t handle being questioned on the statements you make, don’t make statements. It’s that simple. I’m not doing anything to you that we all don’t do to each other on this forum; you just take it personally and defensively. That’s not my problem, it’s yours.

                  And you’re right, I don’t know who you are. I know only what your words say. Your words say you have a masculinity/femininity complex, because you constantly harp on various men discussed on here and their masculinity or lack thereof. Again, this is not me “stalking” you, it’s just the bulk of the comments you’ve made which remain on the public record. (I have a good memory; sue me.) I have no idea what it means, but I know that it repeatedly causes you to demean various people you claim not to like by casting aspersions on their masculinity. It’s all there in your words. The only thing I’ve ever done is call you on it. I call everybody on everything. Always have. (Sue me.)

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

                  I said the word effeminate and you lost it. I did say it 100 times, I said it once.

                  I backed up what I said and explained it further.

                  You act like something said on a message board is an incident in itself.

                  “repeatedly causes you to demean various people you claim not to like by casting aspersions on their masculinity”

                  Again with this BS. You said I was saying somebody was not masculine because they did not play ball?

                  The people is I never said that. I said I do not trust them because of that.

                  Playing sports does not make one masculine.
                  Also FYI you are not the worlds moderator, ease back and seriously listen when people explain themselves maybe you will gain new perspective. If you are interested enough to dig up old threads you should be interested enough in actually hearing somebodys meaning.

                • jsbrendog says:

                  call a lawyer asshole. when i said ibanez sucked and only had 1 good yr in kc you totally overanalyzed t and proved me wrong with FACTUAL EVIDENCE AND STATS!!!

                  how dare you? here is your subpeona to appear at our civil court case hearing in front of judge joe brown. be ready bitch.

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

                  jsbrendog

                  not going to attempt to go over every issue you said because I am not even sure what some of them are about but these are head scratchers.

                  “to chime in, you just questione dhis masculinity because he is proving you wrong.”

                  I did nothing of the sort. I said something is amiss because of the one word getting him into a big to do.

                  “then take it for what ti is. a factual analysis with evidence you yourself typed.”

                  No, see just because somebody analyzes something does not make it factual. Rewording and cutting and pasting select pieces of a thought are not truthfull.

                  “now go ahead and question my manhood or say im a retard with a disability too. i know you want to because thatbs what you have consistently done.”

                  I think you are proving my point here. Where did I call anybody that? I really try never to even use that word, and do not think I did anywhere on this board. I think if you read and research what I type on here I do not use profanity much if at all and really if I call anybody names it is usually a joke, and if it is not it is usually not a really mean word.

                  Saying “I find him to be creepy and effeminate” is not the same as calling somebody an “A-hole” or something. I said what I felt about the guy and got misquoted over and over about it. The man might not even be able to help that he is effeminate but he could do something about the creepyness.

                  But really I am done with all this sillyness.

                  Mr tommiesmithjohncarlos you did call me racist on here before without just cause and it was dead wrong, you never apologized about that or unsaid it. You are again implying something that is wrong on here and I think you know it. If you are the truth seeker fact checker you claim to be sometimes seek the facts and truth in the things you say about other people before you over analyze a singular word that for whatever reason sets you off.

                • jsbrendog says:

                  “I think if you read and research what I type on here”

                  no, then you wil litter the board with long diatribes about how i am stalking you and have problems with my masculinity.

                  “Seriously dude I think you might have issues with you own masculinity or something to get this upset over something I did not say or mean”

                  “But you need to stop E-stalking me and combing over old posts of mine to try to prove something that is not there.”

                • For the record, here’s the comment that started the “racist” name calling:

                  http://riveraveblues.com/2008/.....ent-213531

                  “Cano needs to be a tuff minded player and he is not. He is laid back and aspires to be the second base version of Abreu.

                  Bobbito was a cancer for Melky and Cano.

                  Grit in baseball is important.”

                  So, no, DBHOF, I don’t know that you’re a racist. But you do use racist buzzwords and memes all the time, like saying that Cano’s “not mentally tough” or he’s too “laid back” and that Bobby’s presence (Venezuelan) somehow corrupted Melky (Dominican) and Cano (Dominican).

                  No, I don’t know that you have a gender-identity complex, but you do constantly use emasculating buzzwords like constantly harping on Bernie being called “Bambi” and Keith Law being “effeminate” and Peter Gammons and Mike Lupica never playing sports and calling ARod a “purple-lipped princess”.

                  All I have to judge you on are your words. When I do judge you on your words, all you do is claim victim and say that you were misinterpreted, that you’re the victim and I need to leave you alone, that it was just one time and you never said anything like that before, that it’s just a harmless joke that is blown out of proportion, that we’re all just internet “tuff-guys” who aren’t man enough to back it up in person, etc. etc.

                  All we have are your words. I’m just a messenger trying not to get shot.

            • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

              Like one could judge me slightly slow for not proofing something before I click “Add Comment”.

              “But appearance and the way you present themselves are not just superficial.”

              SHOULD READ

              “But appearance and the way you present yourself are not just superficial.

              or

              “But appearance and the way one presents themself are not just superficial.

              Sometimes my brain sees a fork in the road and takes it.

        • Thomas says:

          Law was a little harsh, but he says later that writing a column about how he was wrong on some prospects (none of which have a full year of experience and could fail for numerous reasons that are not sports related or the prospects fault) years later would be boring. Law said (and I paraphrase) “That column would be boring. I am many things, but boring I am not.”

          • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

            “That column would be boring. I am many things, but boring I am not.”

            See again I disagree with him. I think that would be interesting and show some signs of depth and humanity. And I do find him very boring. If somebody goes around saying they are cool or funny usually they are not either.

            Everybody thinks they have good taste, are funny, drive well etc. The self aware individual knows some of their own weakness but still may have a blind spot for their weakest weakness or biggest flaw.

    • A.D. says:

      Doubtful, they will either never mention again, assume Pettitte would have declined

    • steve (different one) says:

      and Abreu should be signed any day now….

  25. Reggie C. says:

    I’d love to see the benchmarks for the escalators to kick in ..

    Probably something like: After 20 starts: +2 ML bump; After 25 starts: +2 ML bump; After 30 starts: +2 ML bump; After 35 starts: +2 ML bump….

  26. Jamal G. says:

    Tom Verducci is on WFAN.

    • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

      What is the awkward lil guy saying?

      Somebody please phone in and tell him to not do TV ever again. Stick to books, the internet etc.

      • Jamal G. says:

        Basically backtracking and taking this “woe-is-me” persona in response to the media backlash against Joe Torre.

        • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a Don Corleone says:

          I bet he got a call from Joe he did not like. He and Joe always seemed to have this good cop bad cop thing going while Joe was in NY. I think Verducci is a good writer, with questionable ethics at times but he needs to stand behind his words.

  27. Jamal G. says:

    Wow, Zack Greinke’s four-year extension covers the first two years of his free agency. Nice.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....n-zac.html

  28. Jamal G. says:

    Wow, I have to applaud Mike Francesa. Verducci was going on saying that ARod is only a small window of the book, it’s much more than that and that it doesn’t matter if he is a “Lighting Rod”. Francesa replies, “Are there any other names in the book that is discussed in a derogatory manner as such with ARod?” Verducci responds as saying, “I’m not going to get into that now, I can’t really comment on that”. Fucking owned. Good stuff, Francesa.

    • JohnnyC says:

      Jamal, did Verducci clear up the “third-person” aspect? I mean, is the book “as told to” and, therefore, Torre’s thoughts, verbatim or not, or is Verducci claiming “reportage” on his part? If the latter, he’s thrown Torre unde the bus. If the former, “he’ll never have lunch in this town again.”

  29. Joe (not Torre) says:

    Now one more move left. Release Matsui and sign Abreu for 1 year…as DH

      • Hobs says:

        I thought the same thing too at first…but according to their respective wOBAs, their offense is a draw. Both obviously can not play the field: Matsui = bad knees, Abreu=terrible, but I’d think Abreu is the safer bet to be at 100% health next season.

        • Evan says:

          You cannot just release a player who is owed 16 million dollars. Also I think everyone continueously forgets about how good Matsui has been with the Yankees when healthy. Dude is a clutch professional hitter let him DH and win come back player of the year.

        • A.D. says:

          Except Matsui has a guaranteed contract. You’re paying him this season not matter what, Abreu not so much

        • … and since their offense is a draw, we should release Matsui and eat the entirety of his 13M contract to sign Abreu for a 1 year deal for something between 6-12M?

          Pass. If we’re releasing Matsui to get an upgrade on the DH spot, it would be for an actual upgrade (like Manny) and not merely for a slight upgrade in health (like Abreu).

          Especially when we still likely have one of the Nady/Swisher twins sitting on the bench in the everyday lineup…

          • Hobs says:

            I’m not totally defending the idea…

            If we could theoretically dump matsui (+ owed money) for a scrap part and then pick up Abreu for cheap it would actually be beneficial.

            Obviously that will never happen for a majority of reasons…wouldn’t the team we’d trade Matsui rather ust pick up Abreu instead saving money + a spare part…

            All I’m saying is that their on-the-field performance is an overall draw which actually surprised me when I looked at it….

  30. A.D. says:

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....038;ATT=49

    Price is getting cheaper… less than 6M guarenteed

  31. Bill R says:

    According to MLB Trade rumors and the New York Daily News this deal has been agreed upon.

    • Greg G. says:

      Gotta love the last paragraph in the NYDN article:

      Pettitte’s signing fills out a potentially dominating rotation that also includes CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, Chien-Ming Wang and Joba Chamberlain. It also gives the Yankees the option of moving Chamberlain back to the bullpen and using one of their young starters, such as Phil Hughes, in the rotation.

      AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!!

  32. A-ROD says:

    Ohhhh… Now I get it, Andy didn’t want 10 million he only wanted 6 million. what a gentleman.. ANDY you dA man. This guy has a lot of pride..Its hard not to like him.

  33. Zack says:

    Have to like the signining, allows Joba to go to the 5th spot and skip some starts in the begining. Also allows Hughes further development (ie. stay healthy kid) but he’ll still get 100 ML innings filling in for Joba/Aj/andy

  34. mryankee says:

    I am not so crazy about bringing about back a mediocre Andy Pettite. I think you sign Ben Sheets and Manny Ramirez stop messing around with also rans and maybes. I Would think you could get Ramirez on a one year deal then you do it and trade nady and Matsui. Next year either you keep Ramirez or sign Holliday. Ben sheets pitched almost 200 innings last year and as a number five starter you could not do any better. I hate this nickel and dime stuff.

    • steve (different one) says:

      I Would think you could get Ramirez on a one year deal then you do it and trade nady and Matsui.

      sure, but you’d be wrong.

      I hate this nickel and dime stuff.

      ladies and gentlemen, Rip Van Winkle. it’s ok, someone will fill you in on the Sabathia, Teixeira, and Burnett deals. hope you enjoyed your nap.

    • Yeah, me too, I hate this nickel and dime annual 200M payroll and nearly one billion dollars spent in future salary obligations the past two offseasons.

      STOP BEING TIGHTWADS, YOU STUPID YANKEES! GET YOUR ASSES IN GEAR!!!

    • Zack says:

      “I Would think you could get Ramirez on a one year deal ”

      yeah he turned down 2yrs/45m because he prefers a 1 year deal?

      why is any team taking Matsui? And why trade Nady? What’s the benefit of that? Holliday isnt a lock, i prefer Bay, especially if Holliday sucks outside Coors.

  35. Drew says:

    Juan Cruz anyone? :) What a staff!

  36. Double-J says:

    LoHud/PeteAbe says it’s a done deal…with a conference call in a few minutes.

    http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200.....l-is-done/

  37. Scott of 3 Kids Tickets says:

    “Yankees GM Brian Cashman held a conference call with Pettitte on Monday afternoon to announce that they agreed to a one-year contract, allowing the veteran to help open the Yankees’ new stadium as a member of the rotation.”

    It’s a done deal via mlb.com

    “a base salary of $5.5 million, with innings-pitched and days-on-the-roster incentives that could raise the value of the contract to $12 million.”

    -Scott

  38. [...] been a whirlwind day for Andy Pettitte and the Yanks. After rumors emerged this morning of an impending thaw to the stalemate between the Yanks and their long-time lefty, news progressed quickly, and the [...]

  39. I’d much rather have seen Hughes get the spot. Ugh. However, this does give the team a better chance of being better for 2009.

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