Even more Wang analysis

The new and improved bullpen
2009 Draft: Adam Warren in action

Mike Fast at THT took another look at Chien-Ming Wang‘s Pitch f/x data to try to figure out what’s wrong with the guy. Inlike everyone else, he actually adjusted for differences in PFX cameras at the New and Old Yankee Stadiums. His data is more accurate, but the problem is that he still comes to same conclusion: Wang’s releasing ball from a different spot than he has in the past. Why? Who knows? But Fast’s analysis shows that it is indeed happening. Check it out. (h/t dan)

Meanwhile, Wanger became a dad for the first time today. Justin Jesse Wang was born this morning, and in the Taiwanese culture a new baby brings good luck to the parents. Congrats to Chien-Ming and his wife.

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The new and improved bullpen
2009 Draft: Adam Warren in action
  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

    Justin? Is CMW a Joba fan?

    Congrats to him, though. He’ll figure it out. The stuff is there, the delivery is not. That’s better than the opposite.

    • radnom


      The stuff is there, the delivery is not.

      Maybe his wife can give him a few tips then….

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Heh.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Actually, wasn’t her delivery induced? It’s not like she did it on her own. Dave Eiland was probably standing right behind her…

        • ChrisS

          Eiland doesn’t do anything to help his pitchers, he just bitches about them to Tyler Kepner.

        • dkidd

          posada was supposed to deliver the baby, but wang’s wife felt more comfortable with cervelli

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD
          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            (golf clap)

          • Count Zero

            Well done

  • http://ryanhandt.blogspot.com/ handtius

    Congrats. NOW GO OUT AN PITCH! i kid, i kid…do it.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      I like the “i kid, i kid… do it” at the end. Very passive agressive, brilliant.

      —————

      You have twenty-four hours to get our money. And, to show you that we’re serious… you have TWELVE hours to get us our money.

  • RAB poster

    Time for Wang to put up or shut up.

    Congrats on the new baby though.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

      Time for Wang to put up or shut up.

      This would imply some sort of rant from Wang about how he’s good and deserves a spot in the rotation. He has done everything but that. What a ridiculously unwarranted comment.

      • JP

        Wow this is a tough board….Ben, some folks get a little loose with the cliches.

        I’m guessing maybe RAB Poster’s point was more along the line of “Wang needs to shit or get off the pot.”

        Maybe there’s a better one. But the point is, I read his comment and got his general idea, and assumed his tone was sort of encouraging/mock-tough/funny-slap-on-the-back type stuff.

        • radnom

          Agreed.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

          I’ve read a lot of CMW-directed vitriol over the last few weeks. It ceased being the funny slap-on-the-back type of stuff a while ago, and it’s tough to pick up tone on the Internet.

  • dkidd

    i’m happy for cmw. becoming a father will give his baseball struggles some perspective

    that being said, i really really hope he figures it out. you follow a player for enough years, he starts to feel like a friend. this season has been painful to watch

  • http://www.conservationvaluenotes.com Jon G

    I remember that even when Wang was healthy, whenever he pitched on more than 4 days rest, his sinker would be up and he’d get clobbered.

    Too much rest has always been a bad thing for Wang’s sinker.

    I wonder if this is playing into what we are seeing now at all…

    • MattG

      Well, with an infant around, he won’t have to worry about too much rest anymore…

  • ChrisS

    Also in those graphs you can see that Bruney’s new found command seems to be from throwing the ball a little more over the top and replicating that motion.

  • Chris

    Have any of you guys also noticed that Wang’s front shoulder has been flying open all year? Even his head is dipping towards first base, and that doesn’t keep you on top of the ball. I didn’t see his last start, but the one before that his stuff was working fine but he was inconsistent because of that front shoulder.

    • MattG

      It’s probably just me, but the “shoulder flying open too soon” piece of advice has always confused me to no end. I’ve heard that so many times, and I have no idea what to do to correct it. I do know that when the balance, tempo, weight shift are all working, the shoulder magically opens at just the right time, so isn’t the shoulder opening too soon more of a indicator of another flaw, rather than the thing to key on?

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        Perhaps a longer stride could help a guy close his shoulder off? It’s definitely something that seems simple to fix but it’s much easier said than done.

      • JP

        Beware of paralysis by analysis. He used to pitch well. I’m sure he’s watched the films, and has heard from his coaches.

        Now he needs to figure out how to get it done. He’s the only one who can do it.

  • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

    Congrats to the happy couple. Now let’s hope Wang can turn it around on the field. I have a recurring nightmare of Adam Dunn just mauling a hanging sinker.

  • Axl

    Congratulations…to ME! For being right about Wang’s mechanics being out of wack when other nimwits attempted to insult me saying otherwise. Axl’s right again folks. Nothing out of the ordinary…
    And for the record, no homophobic comments. Pointing out something about somebody else doesn’t mean that the person automatically hates homosexuals. I don’t get it. When people use “rule of thumb” constantly…do you all automatically claim he beats women?!??

    By the way, congrats on the kid Wanger…

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

      when other nimwits attempted to insult me saying otherwise.

      The “woe am I” act is tired. I’ve been posting about Wang’s mechanics being off far longer than you have been supposedly persecuted for the belief.

      • JP

        I’m still not letting either one of you off the hook. When mechanics go off, pitchers “struggle.” Wang’s problems are on the level of the Great Flood, not a thundershower. If it’s mechanics, then it’s a total engine failure and he needs a major overhaul.

      • Nady Nation

        Not to mention that nobody ever suggested that Wang’s mechanics were “perfect,” as Axl suggested in the previous thread. He completely made that up.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Axl = 1
          Strawman = 0

      • Axl

        Ben,

        The difference is…people start a crusade and send Paul Revere on horseback to send the message to everybody that it’s time for war.

        You say it and everybody sits back and drinks coffee while crossing their legs.

        I’m proud that you came up with the idea first, however, that’s really not the point here. The point is, people cry their eyes out when I speak the truth. You say something similar and their feeding you grapes while you lay in a hammock.

        Besides, I’ve stated many things on this blog where people have attacked me after…and then I’ll see almost the exact same thing written on the Game Recap (or whatever) the next day.

    • jsbrendog

      you have achieved BO obnoxiousness status.

      oaktag.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Again, dude:

      Axl says:
      June 16th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
      “If they made the same amount…you’d see Wang in the bullpen faster than you unzipping your fly at a gay pride parade.”

      That’s what you said.
      http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ent-433917

      How exactly were we to interpret that non-germane appendix to your comment, Axl, other than it being a homophobic non sequitur directed at Stryker? What the hell are you “pointing out” about someone else? How is that comment not related to homosexuality?

      Does it mean you hate homosexuals? No. Did you just intimate, apropos of nothing, mind you, that Stryker liked to expose his penis at a gay pride parade? Yeah, you did. So, the question is, if that’s not homophobic, how the hell did you intend us to interpret that little bizarrely idiotic statement about gay sex that had nothing at all to do with what anyone was talking about?

      • Axl

        So now we’re disecting every word and making sure that everybody on the board understands it? If that were the case, we’d all be knee deep in nonsense (oh wait…)

        Why do you think you should have to interpret anything I say? What makes you think I’m even concerned with how anybody or you especially interprets something I say. Especially something trailing off at the end of a comment.

        While claiming that what I said wasn’t necessary…you seem quite concerned with the irrelevant…which makes what you’re claiming IS irrelevant…pretty relevant. Now doesn’t it?

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

          Axl: If I were you, I’d just drop any discussion of your comment from earlier today. Consider that a warning from the three of us who run this site.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Thanks for not answering the question. In the absence of any actual explanation, I’ll just take it as it was written – as a homophobic non sequitur.

    • V

      God, you are a fucking idiot.

      Be thankful I ain’t in charge of the blog, because you’d be banned faster than you can say “I was right”, asshole.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph Pawlikowski

        I’ve said this before. You need to calm it with the personal attacks. No one likes Axl (I don’t think Axl wants anyone to like him), but our guidelines do not make exceptions for people we don’t like. Stop with the idiot talk.

  • JP

    Mazel tov!

    What, exactly, is the significance of these scatterplots? I get the general idea that a consistency in one’s point of releas would be a good thing. But how in the world do you determine what is consistent and what isn’t? How close, exactly, do the pitches have to be to one another in order to conclude that a pitcher is having a consistency problem? These data require some sort of statistical analysis – regression, correlation, whatever. Otherwise they are meaningless.

    There are also chicken-egg issues. Is an inconsisten release point a primary cause, or a symptom of something else?

    When it comes to athletes and mechanics, you have to be very very careful mucking around with people’s motions. You can easily do more harm than good.

  • Count Zero

    There are also chicken-egg issues. Is an inconsisten release point a primary cause, or a symptom of something else?

    I think that’s a given. Release point (when not being consciously changed by a pitcher to change pitch angle, look, etc.) is affected by all sorts of things like windup pace, rubber position, the proverbial “shoulder flying open”, etc. Unfortunately, it’s the only one of those we can effectively measure, so that’s what we do.

    I think most of us are well aware that something in the Wanger’s windup changed to change that release point — we don’t believe he changed it by design. We’ve been using it as an indication of whether he has corrected the flaw(?) yet or not.

    • Count Zero

      Ooops — meant that as a reply to the above. Epic fail…