Open Thread: Wang’s injury, Hall of Fame day

July 26, 2009 by Benjamin Kabak 119 Comments

As we head into Sunday night, we have a piece of news on a Yankee pitcher and a day of celebration up in Cooperstown.

After the game, the Yankees revealed that injured hurler Chien-Ming Wang will head to Alabama on Monday to meet Dr. James Andrews. The baseball medical expert performed surgery on Wang in 2001, and his diagnosis will determine if Wang needs rest or surgery. No matter the outcome, Wang is pretty much finished for 2009.

Meanwhile, up in Cooperstown today, Rickey Henderson and Jim Rice headlined the Hall of Fame induction ceremony. Despite his arrival in Cooperstown, Jim Rice will never really belong in my mind. Nothing has changed between this year and the 14 other times he didn’t make it. Also on the slate was Joe Gordon, a one-time Yankee middle infielder. Fack Youk profiled this forgotten Yankee. Check it out.

On another note, I’m heading out of town for ten days tomorrow afternoon. I’ll have a few more posts up over the next few days, but for the most part, Mike and Joe along with a few guests will take you through the Yankee road trip and the trade deadline. It’ll be a fun ride, and I’m sorry to miss it. I will, however, be back in time for game two of the Boston series.

Anyway, here’s your open thread. You know the drill. Anything goes. Just be nice.

Dela G

i wonder if the yankees would trade for dunn in the offseason or trade deadline?

and why trade for a 5th starter? we have 2 on the team (hughes & mitre), no need to give up prospects for them
Rich James

Bye Wang…
Dela G

dunn would abuse yankee stadium like johnny damon has (although at a much higher rate of course)
- JGS
  
  I don’t know–his home runs tend to be of the type that would leave any park regardless of distance to the fence or weather conditions.
  - Salty Buggah
    
    True so he’ll have even more insane HR numbers as monsters will be monsters but he’ll as have a lot of flyballs turn into HRs
- Mike bk
  
  i wanted dunn in the offseason this past year because while he strikesout a lot his obp is always good and his hrs are always top notch. his average this year is actually higher than normal so i have no problem dealing for him since i believe it is basically a 1 yr 12 mil deal which basically is replacing matsui with much more production. It would probably also reduce the urgency of bringing back JD or going after one of bay or holliday and more about bay and holliday because they wull probably take 4+ year deals.
  - Adam
    
    honestly, the yankees have enough power, I would like them to look into players who can play a little more small ball. not necessarily bunting and all that, but guys who can play a little defense, move around well, advance the runner when we need him to, etc… I feel like the yanks rely too much on the home run. Then when it comes curnch time and they are facing a josh becket in october and they arent getting any good pitches to hit, they are going to need to keep the game close and manufacture a few runs then knock in runs at the right time. Im not talking about home runs all the time, but a guy who can get a 2 out base hit to drive a runner in from 3rd, just a single. these are things that the red sox and angels do and thats why we lose to them now.
http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

19 of the Yanks next 26 are on the road.

Jamal G had a great stat on Twitter: if you remove the head-to-head matchups, the Yankess are 30 games over .500. The Red Sox are 9.

Oh, and apparently Medchill is stil raking.
- Dela G
  
  but but the yankees are 0-8 against the red sox, so that means the red sox are the far superior team!!11!!![/delusional red sox fansmedia
- Mike bk
  
  medchill hit another 2 run dinger today. charleston anyone?
  corban joesph followed up last night 2 for 2 1 2b 1 rbi 2bb so far. time to move him up yet?
  DJ Mitchell put up 6 scoreless today for tampa 4H 6K 12/1 G/F. 113.1 94 H 31BB 103K’s 2.78 combined era (not bad at all)
  mack and murton starting to hit more for SI
  - Mike bk
    
    sorry only 5K for Mitchell today
    - pat
      
      I love me some DJ Mitchell.
suppository

RIP Wang’s career
- Dela G
  
  i think he’ll be back just fine
  
  its not like his velocity was down or anything.
  - suppository
    
    he wasn’t the same pitcher…… and now this. He doesn’t even qualify for his own Yankeeography. I’m a sad Wang fan.
- Kiersten
  
  I just got a Wang jersey during the offseason… I have yet to wear it. Sad times.
  - http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa
    
    I blame you for his problems then.
http://www.retire21.org Mike R. – Retire 21

Ricciardi should learn from history. The Halladay trade seems to be mirroring the Santana trade. It appears he is overplaying his hand. If I am Halladay I demand a trade in the off-season.
- Zach
  
  he has 5 days to make the trade, no point of settling now. 5 days can change alot- red sox went from first to 3 games behind, maybe them or another team will fall 3 more games back and panic, maybe an injury.
  - suppository
    
    redsox suck
  - http://www.retire21.org Mike R. – Retire 21
    
    You are betting on an injury or a fall from grace of a handful of teams that can legitimitally acquire him. If he demands a trade this off-season the Blue Jays’ leverage goes kaput.
    - Zach
      
      No I’m not. Once one trade happens GMs panic and go make other moves. Once LA gets a starter, Phillies will go out and get one, or vice versa. Boston has 2 legit starters, 2 pieces of junk, 1 knuckleballer and a 25year old ‘stud’, if they lose ground in 5 days they’re not going to be calling? You have so many teams right there, and Doc pushes them over the top.
      
      Halladay has never once asked for a trade, he still never has, you cant say hes going to demand a trade.
      - http://www.retire21.org Mike R. – Retire 21
        
        I am not saying he is going to, I am saying he can and the end result would be a trade or Free Agency. while it’s true that Halladay has never asked for a trade he has also never been made available. What is keeping him from looking for an out?
Ivan

Oh by the way Montero hit a homer today. Today gets better and better.
- http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime
  
  Yes, we’re aware =D It’s like the perfect day in Yankeedom.
  
  Except, of course, the whole Gardner on the DL thing.
pat

Ugh, Jim Rice playing 15 seasons in one of the most hitter friendly parks in history had precisely 6 seasons I would consider HOF worthy.

Year OPS+
1977-147
1978-157
1979-154
1982-130
1983-141
1986-136
His next highest was 127. Which is good, but not exceptional. He has a career 128 ops+. Fear Williams has a career 125 while playing GG quality CF as opposed to the easiest position in all of MLB, LF in Fenway.

Oh and Rice was terrible in the playoffs when one would assume a Hall of Famer would kill it and be feared like all the time.
18 games- .225/.313/.366 2 hr 7 rbi. Awesome.

And for anybody who wonders why we call him Fear it’s a nod to his career 97 IBB’s whereas Jim The Most Feared Hitter in Baseball For Thos Few Years only had 77

All this and Jim Rice is HOF and Fear probably won’t ever sniff it.
- Whitey14
  
  Get over it, Rice is in, deservedly so, and you can’t change it no matter how many stats you bust out. Instead of railing against Rice, use your energy to go out an support your candidate some place other than on a Yankees site. Go to Fox, got ESPN, go to Sporting News, etc, etc, etc. Us Rice fans rose up en masse and pushed certain media members from some of the above listed publications to change the way they looked at the numbers and you can do the same thing for your candidate. Stop using IBB’s though, it’s hurting your case. Nobody in the 2-6 spots in Boston’s line ups of the late 70’s was IBB’d much due to the hitters coming up behind him. And in the early to mid 80’d Rice had Armas and Baylor batting behind him. He had a propensity to hit into DP’s, but with Boggs ahead of him on base, it wasn’t all his fault. Hit the ball hard and at a fielder and it’s going to happen. These days we say a player has bad luck with his BABIP, why isn’t that the case with Rice? He’s in the Hall, he deserves to be in the Hall and it isn’t changing. He’s 1 of 289 of the greatest players of all time and I, for one, couldn’t be any happier!
- Whitey14
  
  7 World Series games in 1986 .333 average and you can’t drive guys in if they’re not on base ahead of you. Counting Rice’s playoff stats in 1988 would be like counting Willie Mays’ in 1973. Rice’s 2 HR came in a seven game ALCS against California and they were awesome, especially to a 12 year old kid watching his favorite team in the playoffs for the first time.
Andy In Sunny Daytona

Have a good vacation Ben. Remember to push “Black and White” to your father. There is an Executive Producer title in it for ya. :)
V

I am SO hoping the Sox gut their farm system for Halladay or Adrian Gonzalez.

Buccholz+Bowden+Masterson+Bard+Kelly type trade.
- suppository
  
  all those players suck except kelly.
- Mike bk
  
  sorry but if im Toronto or SD i want lester not bucholz.
  
  if Toronto is demanding at least Joba or Phil from us or Kershaw from LA for Roy i dont see how they get away w Bucholz who is unproven in the bigs vs lester who can be an ace and is only 25. boston probably doesnt want to give lester up but that should be the cost.
- Steve H
  
  Not me. Bucholz is about to turn 25 and has a career era over 5. He’s no guarantee. Bowden is a guarantee, to be a mediocre, league average Jeff Suppan type. Masterson is a reliever because he can’t get lefties out. Bard is a reliever, possibly a future closer. Closers can be found easily thru trades and FA market. Kelly, too early to tell, but certainly has promise.
  
  Adrian Gonzalez is cheap, young and an absolute beast in the hardest park in baseball to hit.
  
  Halladay would make the Sox the presumptive favorites to win it all this year.
  - Mike bk
    
    Lester, Lars, Kelly, Bard at least for Roy…probably Clay and another prospect add for Adrian as he is so cheap.
    - Januz
      
      Lars Anderson is GROSSLY OVERRATED, and the Red Sox themselves acknowledged it when they were DESPERATE to sign Mark Teixeira (Why else offer over $170m for 8 years?). Toronto would be better off trading him out of the league, taking a package starting with Montero (But NOT Hughes, Joba or Austin Romine), or holding on to him and getting draft picks instead of taking the likes of Anderson.
      - Mike bk
        
        i dont disagree i was just trying very hard to find some offensive prospect in their system. lol.
- pat
  
  Kelly really has no value being 18 and in A-ball.
  - Mike bk
    
    tell that to phillies fans who treat jason knapp like he is the next coming at 18 in A ball.
  - Steve H
    
    pat, you’re dead wrong. If Theo and the Sox drafted Kelly, he must be a future HOF. Who doesn’t want a future HOF as an 18 year old. Though, if not developed by the Sox, he may not develop into a future HOF, only a 10-12 time all-star. And, let’s not forget, he has HOF potential at 2 positions.
    - Mike bk
      
      kelly is 19, 20 in october, but dont hate on his numbers as they were just as good as man-ban and we fall all over manny who is still at charleston while kelly pitched at high A as well.
      - pat
        
        Hahah, we’re not hating, just making fun of the RSHM and sox fans thinking he can be a key component of an A-Gon trade.
        
        Mike bk
        
        he can be but as a 4th piece. the funnier thing for me is thinking that Buchholz can be the centerpiece. as i said if im toronto or sd lester is the centerpiece not clay.
        
        Steve H
        
        I agree as far as Clay goes, but I don’t think the Sox would trade Lester for Roy straight up, when you consider age/salary/years and to a much lesser extent, handedness.
        
        Mike bk
        
        i didnt say the sox should but to claim as toronto apparently has that you have to have at least 1 of joba and phil if not both and maybe montero in some combination to not require lester is ridiculous.
        
        i wouldnt trade any of those 3 of ours for clay let alone us give up 2 while clay supposedly can be the centerpiece for a boston trade to get a roy halladay.
        
        pat
        
        I agree, Buchh is grossly overrated, if he had never thrown teh no hittah he’s be a nobody.
    - Tank the Frank
      
      I recently talked to one scout who told me Red Sox 1st Round draft pick Casey Kelly is “a lock” for the Hall of Fame for at least two positions. Kelly – whose fastball averages 107mph – has earned high praise from scouts, saying he is the best pitching prospect since Daniel Bard and the best hitting prospect since Lars Anderson. It is also rumored that Kelly beat the Red Sox Clay Buchholz in a foot race. Buchholz, of course, is famous for having beaten Jacoby Ellsbury in a foot race, who once beat out Olympian Michael Phelps in the 400 Meter Freestyle. When asked if Kelly should be included in a trade for Adrian Gonzalez, one AL executive said, “No way. He’s untouchable. He IS Adrian Gonzalez.”
      
      For Diamond Cutters I’m Peter Gammons, and I spit when I talk.
      - Steve H
        
        He IS Adrian Gonzalez (but a SS) AND Jake Peavy.
        
        pat
        
        In Boston’s eyes he’s Adrian Gonzales, but better (white).
        
        Steve H
        
        IETC.
- http://anewfrontier.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos
  
  I’m SO not. The first four won’t be THAT great, but Halladay and Gonzalez will be.
bonestock94

I just dropped Wang off my fantasy team, so sad. And now Jose Guillen may go too. I’ll never trust the Royals again, first Aviles now Guillen.
- Zach
  
  just now you dropped wang?
  - Steve H
    
    And own Guillen?
    - bonestock94
      
      Yea, I was holding out hope for Wang and had other dispensable spots. Besides, when he’s on the dl he doesn’t take up roster space. And the Guillen pick wasn’t that high but definitely a mistake. It was my first time playing in a fantasy league.
      - Steve H
        
        Yeah, it was probably worth it having Wang on the DL then. He’s not a great fantasy player, but with the improved Yanks offense (and defense) we all certainly expected a lot of wins.
- suppository
  
  your wang dropped
Steve H

J.Upton/Dunn/Hardy too much to give up for Hanley? (in fantasy)
- Zach
  
  Yes
Tank the Frank

Don’t look now but Joba is pitching better than Porcello.

GIVE ME PORCELLO’S LAST FOUR STARTS!!!
- Drew
  
  IM GONNA TEACH ALEX A LESSON!
- Adam
  
  RICK PORCELLO CAN’T PITCH THE 8TH INNING!!!!!!!!!!
Mike bk

SI 8-8 in the 8th. SI has 6 errors, 5 by 2B/SS.
Drew

What has JP Ricciardi ever done that was good for Toronto?
- GG
  
  Bro he LOCKED UP Vernon Wells
  - Steve H
    
    And Rios. And BJ Ryan. He really instilled the moneyball culture there for sure.
    - Drew
      
      And AJ for 5 years with a sick opt out.
Andy

Glad Wang is done. He was putrid.
- Drew
  
  That makes sense.
- GG
  
  Your dead on, I hate it when I have some 29 year old bum on my roster who won 38 games in 2 yrs
  - jim p
    
    Especially when they don’t cost you a lot of money.
Manimal

I’m leaving for NJ tomorrow with my dad and brother. I’m going to be in trenton on tuesday! So pumped.
Drew

Ajax isn’t playing tonight… Day off or getting on a plane?
- GG
  
  I’m gonna hate myself if he’s called up and it doesnt work
- http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa
  
  Plane from Scranton?
  - Drew
    
    I figure the guys are already down in Tampa.
  - http://imgur.com/NMNVd.jpg Joba Powers (all I needs is a jheri curl mullet)
    
    BALLIN’!!!!!!
Mike bk

If you were JP Riccardi (frightening thought i know) but which prospects would be on this list it is being speculated he gave Texas about who it would take to get Roy?
- Drew
  
  Elvis Andrus, Justin Smoak, Josh Hamilton, Michael Young. Take it or leave it! DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM! I’M JP RICCIARDI! AY.
  - Mike bk
    
    nice to see you took it seriously.
    - billbybob
      
      Holland, Smoak, Feliz…done deal imo, though that is a lot to give up.
      - GG
        
        Yea, Andrus is not being moved for anyone unless it was like a 1 for 1
      - http://anewfrontier.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos
        
        Eh. Holland projects as a #2-#4, Feliz as a front-end starter or Juan Cruz, and Smoak as…Smoak. Though I’m not sure that’s quite enough because of the risk with the two pitchers.
      - Mike bk
        
        toronto should jump on that. it is comparable to what they asked of us. smoak, feliz and martin perez would also be an excellent package and more likely because it doesnt require anyone actually on the roster now.
Mike bk

pena 3 for 3 2 run hr playing center today.

Mike,
Any reports on how his D has been in Center?
Mike bk

Mike’s MLBTR update on Roy
“8:00pm: Rosenthal just heard from Ricciardi that the chances of Halladay leaving Toronto at this point are “very slim.” Here’s more from the general manager:

“We’ve said that we would listen, but that we would have to be motivated and ‘wowed. Right now we haven’t been. I’ve said all along my gut tells me I won’t be. I still stand by that.”

“If we get to the last week,” Ricciardi added, “and haven’t really made any progress with anybody, I’m not going to say it’s 100 percent certain, but I would have to pretty much think it’s not going to get done.”

It sure sounds like the Blue Jays aren’t going to lower their asking price.”

JP looks like he has blown a chance to trade him at peak value and this might really turn into a Johan situation.
- http://anewfrontier.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos
  
  +1
- Drew
  
  He’s got to lose his job soon. You have a shot here to get young, top of the line talent and are somehow playing this wrong. Roy is the face of a franchise that is going nowhere. It’s time to infuse that roster with more than Ricky Romero and Adam Lind.
  - Mike bk
    
    you forgot hill. the worst part is that the reason for the screwup wasnt even that he was trying to make these teams swallow one of his hideous contracts.
  - http://anewfrontier.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos
    
    Right. But the Phillies prospects are overrated, so asking for a lot of quantity from PHI wasn’t a terrible idea. Asking for the moon from the Yanks makes sense because they’re dealing him to a playoff team within the division.
    - Mike bk
      
      that is one thing but not doing it because he wanted to demand a 27 year old number 3 starter in Happ is a different story.
      
      Drabek, Brown, Taylor, Marson should have been what he wanted. instead because he let his desire for Happ be known everywhere he wasnt getting Drabek or Brown by this morning.
      - JC Retardi
        
        What don’t you guys understand by “I need to be wowed!!” That means pick up Wells’ contract, damnit!!! :(
      - Drew
        
        And what did he ask for from the dodgers? Dude wants the sun, the moon and all the other planets. He’s stating it publicly too. Next year, he’s going to be out of the playoff race just like this year and will have to accept less(if he still has a job) because it will only be a half year rental.
        
        Mike bk
        
        sorry, dodgers dont have frontline prospects left in the minors so if they want to add roy it would take clayton or billingsley and those make no sense to do.
        
        the phillies on the other hand have 3 prospects ranked high right now.
        
        other than the public demands about what we would have to give up none of it was outrageous.
        
        Drew
        
        What about the Angels? Three guys that are currently on the major league roster and a prospect.
        
        Mike bk
        
        seriously? replacing Saunders with Halladay, check. izturis easily takes aybars spot and if u cant replace wood who is hitting 150 u got problems.
        
        http://anewfrontier.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos
        
        Andrew Lambo?
        Scott Elbert?
        Ethan Martin?
        Josh Lindblom?
        
        They’ve got some pretty freakin’ good prospects
        
        Zach
        
        ive never heard of them so they suck
      - http://anewfrontier.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos
        
        Drabek = Hughes lite
        Brown = Jackson
        Marson = AJ Pierzynski lite
        Taylor = Nelson Cruz lite
        
        really enough?
        
        Mike bk
        
        brown is better than A-Jax.
        last i checked nelson cruz was an allstar this year.
        
        As far as BA goes cause they are considered the most reliable rankings. its 3 top 25
        
        Midseason this year
        Brown 17
        Taylor 23
        Drabek 24
        
        I would say that is a good haul. 4 of there top 5 prospects. knapp might be better but he is 18 and supposedly has a taxing delivery.
        
        Its not Hughes, Montero, A-Jax but we would never give that up so cant compare it.
- suppository
  
  JC Retardi is a moron. He’s got no leverage in this situation, either get prospects or draft picks. Guess the moron is picking draft picks.
  - GG
    
    If he could convince someone (the yanks most likely) to take on Wells and basically give Halladay without getting our studs, that would be 100 mil of salary relief which is probably the best way to go…Now I don’t think the Yanks would bite unless some dough was chipped in, but I said it the other night, and I still think getting the Wells contract off his books should be his main objective
    - Zach
      
      No one is going to take that contract, and giving him and Doc away for nothing doesnt help their club. If they dont make any trades they have 45m coming off the books after next year
      - Drew
        
        Who’s coming off the books? Besides Roy. Also, Wells will be “going on the books” in a sense. Big jump in his pay if I remember correctly.
        
        Zach
        
        Halladay 15.75m
        BJ RYan 12m
        Rolen 11.6m
        Overbay 8m
        Downs 4m
        62.35million
        
        They have a 81m payroll right now, only 44m commited for 2011, but that doesnt count guys getting raises in arbitration.
        
        http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p4ew-fwu2XT21pPs-y5fsTg
        
        Drew
        
        Nice, thanks.
        I L’edOL after reading Rios and Wells.
        
        Zach
        
        Colt’s Baseball Contracts website has those spreadsheets for each team, just click on the team name on the left and then “2009-13 payroll obligations” in the middle under the total team salary
Pasqua

Did anybody catch the story about Tony Pena Jr. being converted into a relief pitcher? He was DFA, cleared waivers, and is reporting to the minors to start / continue the transformation. Really, kind of interesting.
- Zach
  
  its usually the other way around, switching from pitcher to position player. hes already 28, he just cant walk on a mound and be ready for the majors next spring training. its basically a last effort to stay alive in the game
Brett Speedner

Sorry.. Coming in a little late.. any word on why A-Jax isn’t playing?
- Drew
  
  dotf man, dotf
  - Brett Speedner
    
    Yeah i read that after I commented.. it could still be because he is getting promoted.. Just like we could get Halladay and we could go on a 20 game winning streak..
    - Mike bk
      
      we would know already if it was coming at least if it was coming for tomorrow.
      - Brett Speedner
        
        Yeah I was saying all of that COULD happen but is highly unlikely..
        Any word on Heathcott?
Drew

Damn so the Cards have really lost some of their best prospects this year. Just read the mlbtr post saying who the PTBNL was in the DeRosa deal.
- Zach
  
  It did cost alot, but look at what Dave Duncan did with Piniero and Loshe. And if they’re able to resign Holliday and a (healthy)DeRosa then Pujols, Holliday, Rasmus, Ludwick, DeRosa, Molina is pretty damn good group of guys for the NL.
- Mike bk
  
  zach is right that it depends on if they can resign those two guys. they need to because there farm system is dead.
  - Zach
    
    thats my point, they can go sign some guy barely hanging out and turn him into a 15 game winner
http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

I was at the game today and it was definitely one of the two hottest days during which I’ve attended the game.
- pat
  
  Word, softball doubleheader in Seaford. Narsty.