Pitching doesn’t hold up as Yanks lose opener to Angels

Game 86 Spillover Thread III
Where have you gone, Joba Chamberlain?

For four innings, Joba Chamberlain didn’t look too bad. He’d allowed five hits and a walk in that span, but worked out of trouble well enough, surrendering just one run. But it all came undone in the fifth. After two singles and an A-Rod error, Joba hung a breaking ball to Kendry Morales and the Angels tied the game. Joba didn’t settle down afterward, and he left after just 4.1. The Yankees wouldn’t recover, and the Angels took the opener 10-6.

The Yanks looked good early, striking three times in the first five innings to take a 5-1 lead. The pitching imploded from there, though, as Joba, Melancon, and Bruney combined to blow the game. There’s really not much else to say about it. They all pitched to varying degrees of crap, and the Yanks offense couldn’t muster enough support. Not that we should expect them to. Six runs is plenty.

Joba had some zip on his fastball, averaging 93.5 and topping out at 97. As you can see in his histogram, he was sitting around 94 frequently. So, like most pitchers in the league, he needs more than his velocity to pitch well and deep into games. That could mean some more variety in his pitch selection. Of his 94 pitches, 87 percent were fastballs or sliders. He’s going to have to drop that curve — which he threw only five times last night — a bit more. He’ll have a long time to go over what’s wrong; he won’t start again for another nine days, and the Yankees could push that to 10 if they wanted.

Again, not much to this one. Another poor start for Joba, some sloppy work out of the bullpen, and surprise surprise, it ended in a loss. All they can do is come back tomorrow. Andy Pettitte tries to redeem himself against Jered Weaver at 4:10.

email
Game 86 Spillover Thread III
Where have you gone, Joba Chamberlain?
  • Dorian

    Phil or Joba let it begin

    • Dorian

      Just to let people what we are dealing with here. Since the Baltimore start, Phil has struck out 41 and walked 10. That’s Mussina like.

      • Zach

        you add in the stats from the bullpen

        • Zach

          you cant*

        • Dorian

          His last 3 starts: 21 SO and 3 Walks. Yep thank you very much. Even better.

          • Zach

            10 IP, 7 ER in 2 of those starts. thanks

            • Dorian

              He gave up 2 bombs in the bandbox and got dinked and dunked by the Indians. You can’t always just say he gave this many runs and say he pitched poorly. I don’t do that with Joba and I won’t do it with Hughes.

              • Drew

                How come you make up so many excuses for Philly and not for Joba?

                • Dorian

                  They aren’t excuses. It’s just what my eyes tell me. Phil Hughes is a different pitcher than he was last year. Not just the guy that is coming out of the bullpen but the guy that was starting this year. Scouts have been talking about Hughes this year and they believe that he is the same guy that got all the praise when he was the best prospect in baseball.

                  Right now Joba doesn’t give them a better chance to win.

                • Drew

                  Bandbox, dinked and dunked. Aren’t they excuses for him giving up runs?

                • Dorian

                  Look man, straight up, no stats, who honestly has looked like a better pitcher this year?

                • Drew

                  Somewhat similar as starters, IMO. Out of the pen he has been flat out dominant, no one is denying that.

                • Dorian

                  You continue to avoid the question. As STARTERS, Who has looked the best while on the mound? The Answer is Phil Hughes Period He attacks the hitters and has swing and miss stuff. Joba has done the opposite.

                • Drew

                  I disagree, in a larger sample size, Joba has had his good and his bad starts. We have especially sour tastes in our mouth because his last two have been flat out bad, maybe even 3 if you didn’t like the 9 hit 3 BB performance in which he only gave u 3 R’s.
                  Phil has only made 7 starts he went more than five innings only twice. He was not a good starter in that SSS.

                • Drew

                  *up 3 R’s.
                  Also, to answer your question more directly, I’d say yes Joba has been better in his 17 starts than Phil was in his 7.

                • Dorian

                  Doesn’t really matter now. I’m watching Yankees Encore and I think we gotta wait this out because he is getting really close. His command was better than we have seen in a while and he pretty much was burned with one pitch.

                  I think he can build off this and continue to progress. I hope the Yankees remain patient. I’m sure Girardi will watch the tape and be pleased with what he saw.

                • Salty Buggah

                  SO Hughes’s ERA is 4.01 after being dominant in the pen. Joba’s ERA is 4.25 after having numerous bad/shaky/decent starts. Joba’s FIP is 4.76 and Hughes’ is 4.25. Joba is at 74.2% LOB and Phil is at 75.2% LOB. They’re the same pitcher except one’s stats have hurt recently and the other’s have helped a lot. So slight edge, Joba and he will come out of his funk/slump soon hopefully.

                • Salty Buggah

                  *been helped

                  *been hurt

          • Zach

            by the way. 3 starts = SSS!!

          • Dorian

            I guess that one put you to bed for the night

            • Zach

              yup, arguing about baseball at 3am isnt my cup of tea. especially since you cant say anything against Hughes, its either SSS or 21:3 (and i want them both in the rotation so its not that i want hughes in the bullpen)

  • Little Bill

    You didn’t mention the Jeter error. That was a huge mistake that blew the game open for them. Bruney probably comes in the next inning anyway so who knows what happens, but that was a pretty big blunder. Something is wrong with Joba and Bruney. These two will have a couple weeks to show improvement or it may force Cashman to make a move.

  • stuart

    Melancon looked good. daved Joba’s bacon in the 5th.

    gave up one real hit the triple.

    joba hung a curve to Morales and he said on the postgame it was not a bad pitch.

    the frustrating thing about Joba is he is stupid. No other way to put it his postgame comments are childlike, innacurate, and clueless.

    What kind of IQ does he have? Can some of the vets talk to this punk? THye do not have multiple options for the rotation so Joba getting his head out of his ass is kindof important… The figgins single was a good pitch it happens but the Morales pitch was a terrible pitch and him not acknowleding it is very demoralizing for his development…

    people stop giving Joba blind props, he is not pulling his weight not even close…

    • Dorian

      What did he say that was stupid tonight?

      • Zach

        he didnt. said if you cut corners thats one thing but its frustrating when you work your tail off and you dont get th results you want. said he threw some good pitches, said they hit some decent pitches.

        people are just on the ‘joba is stupid’ train for whatever reason

        • Pete c.

          I don’t think he’s stupid, I do think he’s stubborn. And not in a good way. They kept talking about it, during the game, all about his love for throwing his slider on 3-2. Yeah it’s a great pitch but doesn’t he realize everybody knows that’s whats coming?
          The question I have is how many blogs and newspaper articles about how good he is has he let go to his head? When he is on the mound and shaking off Posada and telling reporters in the clubhouse he really pitched well they just had some good swings or ther’re a great hitting team. With little or no self reflection, makes me think he’s in love with the hype and something should be done to bring him back down to earth. If he doesn’t straighten the attitude out, the question won’t be about whether or not he should be in the rotation or the pen, it’ll be does he belong in the majors.

          • Pasqua

            Virtually every pitcher will tell you he made good pitches, etc., after a bad start. It’s not an attitude problem or overblown ego on Joba’s part, it’s sport cliche.

            • Zach

              exactly. what did AJ kept saying when he was sucking. ? “Its coming, i feel it’s coming,” justlook at Jeter’s quotes after a 4-4 game and a 0-4 game, barely tell the difference.

    • Drew

      Melancon also got two rockets hit to Teix, he was not good out of the pen tonight any way you cut it. He gave up 3 hits and 3 runs.

      • Mac

        Mel wasn’t good??? How can that be? I read right here he the heir apparent for Mo so Joba can become our #1 starter for the next two decades.

        I’d also like to hear from Andrew YF a little more about how great a closer Dave Robertson was in College.

        Put Joba in the pen with Hughes and trade for an experienced #5 starter (and hope we eventually get something from Wang). No guarantees the Yanks are as offensively healthy next year as they are right now.

        It takes a few years for most guys to really get their feet under them in the bigs to establish themselves in the rotation – Yanks don’t have that luxury this year.

        If they want to cut salary next year and build a better defensive team with guys like Cerivelli and Pena in the mix – great – let Joba throw all the 4-5 inning games he wants – this year try to get to the WS.

        • Zach

          The Yankees dont have luxury to let young pitchers grow this year, but next year they do? doesnt make a lot of sense

  • Mike bk

    who says you need to be stretched out to pitch as a starter. Sanchez threw a no hitter and 110 pitches while only throwing 40 pitches total the last 3 weeks since being sent to bullpen.

    • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

      In two weeks when Sanchez is on the DL with a hurt elbow/shoulder, come talk to us again.

      • http://www.teamnerdrage.com leokitty

        Sanchez throwing the perfect game (ignoring Uribe) is a dumb example in any case because this was the one night ever where all his stuff came together. It was a great game to pitch, but he is injury proneish and wild.

  • stuart

    the pitch to morales was a good pitch and exactly what he wanted to do. and his usual tip the cap, can’t look back, etc..

    his postgame comments are laguhable, my 14 yr old daughter has more insight and honesty..

    • Dorian

      It WAS a good pitch. After a talk on the mound which guy on the planet is looking for a first pitch curveball? The guy was just sitting on it. Good job

    • Drew

      I guess you missed the, “I’m embarassed with the results and letting my teammates down.” Also, “I’m working my tail off and the results have not been there.” What exactly do you want Joba to say? Some people will never be happy..

      • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

        I’d prefer “I stunk today. I’ll be better next time.”

        • Drew

          embarassed? Isn’t that indicative of his feelings? He said he can’t change the past and can only work hard and make it better in the future.

          • Zach

            nope, he must cry during his postgame conference and beg to go to the bullpen

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

      I’m going to bed right now because I can’t stay awake any longer, but I have one last thing to say: That pitch to Morales was awful. It was a curve ball that didn’t break. It was a dead-red hanger that Morales did what any decent Major League hitter would do — he crushed it further than most of us could ever dream of hitting a baseball.

      There’s really no need to try to make excuses for it. Joba didn’t have it on that pitch. After the first or second inning, he didn’t have it tonight, and he hasn’t in a while. Not a good pitch. Not a good outing. Not a good seven starts. No more excuses.

      • Chris

        If you’re not willing to deal with the growing pains of young pitchers, then why bother having them?

  • Dorian

    Who misses Chein Ming Wang?

    • Salty Buggah

      I miss the good 19 game winner

  • Salty Buggah

    According to Elias, Joba’s 10 decisions (7-3 record) in his first 28 career starts are the fewest in MLB history.

  • bxpd

    Will the Yankees ever contemplate demoting Joba? This is certainly not an overreaction to tonight’s outcome. And, it’s not a Hughes to the rotation and Joba to the Pen post. The Yanks could have won tonight, and I still would have felt the same way. It’s about Joba as a starter, and the Yankees as a team. Regardless of the reason –injury, mechanics, immaturity or confidence – he just seems to be regressing. Yes, his A.L. ERA of 4.25 is not horrendous, and the Yankees are 11-6 in his starts. But, those numbers do not indicate the stress his short outings have on the bullpen on his start days and on subsequent days. Can the Yankees while vying for a playoff spot afford to continue to send him out there every fifth day only to watch him implode while taking the bullpen with him?

  • BigBlueAL

    What is more depressing is that the Yankees gave up 10 runs to an Angels team w/o Torri Hunter and Vlad. Before you go saying Vlad Guerrero is having a bad season checkout how good he had been hitting since coming off the DL.

    Its amazing how good the bullpen was looking when it was only Mo, Coke, Hughes and Aceves pitching. Now that the underbelly of the bullpen has been forced into action recently I can see why the Yankees dont want to take out Hughes from the bullpen. I think its clear that Hughes and Aceves for this season anyway will and probably must remain in the bullpen and Cashman might need to pickup a SP, not Halladay or anyone like that but a decent innings-eating veteran type.

    Lets just hope we dont get swept this weekend because if so it will be a long All-Star break to say the least….

  • stuart

    melancon was not saved by tex. good fielders are suppose to field hard hit ground balls.

    jobas comments are mronic listen to them.. you have the usual tip your cap, my stuff has been good, can’t look back, blah blah blah.

    the figgins single was a good hit of a good pitch true. the morales pitch 80% of major leaguers if not more are killing that pitch, therefore it was not a good pitch. Joba thinks it was, therefore he is blind, stupid, or in denial, take your pick…

    i know it is only baseball and he is 23, but he has no friggin clue…

    • Drew

      Starts with an R, ends with a Y, has EPL in the middle.

    • Dorian

      You have no freakin clue

  • stuart

    the problem with demoting Joba is they have zero good choices now that Wang is hurt..

    they do not have other starters that have legit chances of succeeding….

  • Dorian

    I’m watching Yankees Encore and I have come to the conclusion that we got to stick this out. He is really, really close. It’s kinda like when A-Rod takes those good 0fers during his slumps. The results were poor but Joba is getting close. I just hope that the results come soon. Francesa will be back a week after the All-Star break.

  • MJ

    Alex mentioned for his error, but the Captain not mentioned for his. Little bias journalism going on or at the least failure to report a major turning point of the game.

    Anyways, don’t understand the reasoning of putting Jeter in. Better defensive player was in and we had a lead to secure.

    Aye aye aye

    • http://www.teamnerdrage.com leokitty

      Better defensive player was in and we had a lead to secure.

      Jeter was brought onto the field after the lead was gone.

      And Cody Ransom is a bad shortstop.

    • bxpd

      Did you watch the game? I’m not asking to be a “smart ass” but if you didn’t that would explain your lack of understanding. By no means am I trying to come off as a snob. The Yankees pinch hit Posada for Ransom in the top of the 7th. So, Jeter came on to play short.

    • Salty Buggah

      “Alex mentioned for his error, but the Captain not mentioned for his. Little bias journalism going on or at the least failure to report a major turning point of the game.”

      Eh, it is really late at night in NY so this was a quick recap so don’t worry about the lack of details. And RAB is pro-Alex BTW.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph Pawlikowski

        I thought that was easy enough to figure out. I was asleep within 15 minutes of posting this.

  • Dorian

    How about Joba getting bashed for stupid comments but every time “The Captain” does something dumb and says “I have nothing for you” or “No it wasn’t a bad decision to run” no one says anything?

    • Drew

      Just cuz Jete’s is the friggin man.
      People are just mad at Joba because he’s been bad in the last few starts. They read into his comments as if he is an english major and carefully articulates his comments to the media.

  • Dorian

    The Breaking ball he threw to Morales was the same one he threw to all the other guys when he was trying to get it over. I’m sure you weren’t complaining then.

  • BigBlueAL

    You know I just read something that made sense, how come with Wang Girardi and Cashman were all over him about his velocity and they needed to see his velocity back to a certain level, yet with Joba nothing about his velocity which has seen a much larger drop than what Wang had earlier in the season????

    With Joba its only about attacking the zone and throwing strikes, but when a night like tonight where for the most part his control was pretty good he still got lit up and from what I remembered he didnt get many, if any, swings and misses with his fastball. I think both Joba and the Yankees management are not being honest when it comes to Joba and his stuff/velocity right now.

    • Drew

      But the velocity was there tonight.

      • BigBlueAL

        Not anywhere near the velocity he had as a starter last season. At no time this season has he come close to matching his velocity for an entire game like he did last season. I believe someone even mentioned that last year in the game at Fenway he threw 99 mph on his 99th pitch of the game. I believe this season he has only touched 97 a few times.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph Pawlikowski

          Dude, you are going by TV station guns. They are all over the place. Pitch f/x showed that he was right around where he was last season.

  • Andrew

    Joba is embarrassing himself and undoubtedly losing faith in the clubhouse.

  • DCR

    I am starting to wonder if his shoulder is healthy or if it can handle the stress of being a full time starter.

    • bxpd

      I spend a long time wondering if his shoulder is healthy as well. Obviously, the organization has to know something we don’t regarding his health otherwise you’d think that they would have shut him down. But, he just has not looked the same since that night in Texas. They MRI’d him, he rehabbed and came back. I’m curious as to what the MRI showed. It must have been something which did not require surgery, but I’m wondering if you could lose a lot of life on your fastball without having an injury correctable only through surgery. We’ve gone from the Joba Rules to the Joba Mystery.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph Pawlikowski

      If his shoulder wasn’t healthy he couldn’t have hit 97 last night.

  • Joba-to-the-pen

    The idea that a first round pitcher(Hughes) is sitting as a long man reliever and who hasn’t pitched back to back days.Yet it’s the compenstation pick (Joba) who was too fat and injury prone to be in the first round who stays in the rotation.

    • Mac

      Hughes is the “bridge to Mo” and he pitched the last two Twins games back to back – and was awesome.

      This year, they both belong in the pen – next year is next year.

  • Stevis

    Such nonsense about Joba.
    He LOOKS dreadful
    His velocity sucks
    He belongs in the pen, where he always belonged
    He looks like a lost little boy out there
    Bring on Phil Hughes and get Joba back to the Pen
    AND by the way Girardi still is a crappy manager

    • ranger11

      It is only one loss and they still have one of the best records in baseball.

    • http://www.retire21.org Mike R. – Retire 21

      IT’S ATROCIOUS!!!!!!!!! ATROCIOUS!!!

  • pollo

    He can’t locate his fastball and his curve wasn’t there again. Like you said, he was a 2 pitch pitcher last night- fastball and slider. He threw one nice changeup right down the middle for a strike but couldn’t be bothered to throw it again. He’s a power pitcher so I’m guessing trying to locate is out of the question for him. It’s frustrating to watch, but you know what’s equally frustrating? Watching Brian Bruney give up a home run to the number 9 hitter. Time to send his fucking ass down. I don’t know what this team’s problem is with letting relievers work at the minor league level before bringing them back. They did it with Wang, and now with Bruney.

    • Stevis

      What Fastball?
      very midocre at best
      where is the 98 MPH that we saw

  • Pete c.

    I have a question, almost as important as where should Joba pitch from. Why is Cody Ransom still with the big club? This is the best Cashman can do in regards to a utility man?

  • Tony

    I can’t believe the implosion of confidence from one game. This is lohuddery. In fact, I would go beyond that. You sound like Cubs fans. Burns, doesn’t it?

    Chill the fuck out. We got this.

  • http://www.retire21.org Mike R. – Retire 21

    I can’t believe we’re going to be swept by the Angels!!!1!11!

    /Quiad’d

  • bart

    I am learning to hate Girardi – am I alone

    why is Ransom on the team instead of Pena

    why is Ransoim playing at all — matsui is superior against lefties

    if you have to have Ransom in the lineup why play him at the same timer you play Molina – 2 pretty much automatic outs

    why do you play him in the field 3 games before the all star break – did Jeets really need a rest

    why do you play Molina 1st game back agaist a team that runs and puts pressure on a young pitcher

    why do you bring in Bruney when Melancon has 2 outs and the 8 spot is coming up — so a cold guy can issue walks and hits

    why weaken a lineup to such an extent with Ramsom and Molina so ARod’s protrection is Swisher