Eying Billy Wagner
ByLast night, as the 8th inning rolled around at Citi Field, the oh-so-familiar guitar strains of “Enter Sandman” echoed across the stadium. The crowd around me roared, and for the first time since undergoing Tommy John surgery last year, Billy Wagner jogged out to the mound in a Mets uniform.
In this one inning of work, Wagner dazzled. He hit 96 on the Mets’ gun and 95.4 according to Pitch F/X. He threw his change-up with a velocity separation of around 8-9 miles per hour, and his slider had bite. He also threw all three pitches for strikes and struck out two Braves while facing the heart of the Atlanta lineup.
For the Mets, Wanger puts them in a tough spot. The team still owes him around $2.5 million this year and holds a $10 million club option with a $1 million buyout. Because they have Francisco Rodriguez locked up for the next few years, the team will not pick up that option. Because they are a little tight on cash, the team would love to unload Wagner, and the market for hard-throwing lefty relievers is always robust.
Early rumors indicate that the Rays and Marlins are interested in Wagner. Jayson Stark notes, however, that the price tag — in essence, $2.5 million for one month — is far too high for those two teams on the fringes of playoff contention. If the Mets’ goal is to off-load salary by trading Wagner, the team won’t be inclined to ship money down to Florida.
Meanwhile, according to reports, Wagner has been placed on waivers that are set to expire today at 1 p.m. If the right team claims him, Wagner is willing to waive his no-trade clause. “You want to win a World Series, that’s for sure,” Wagner said. “If I’m fortunate enough to be asked to come and join a team that has a great chance to win the World Series, that is something that definitely I’d think about.”
So which team, searching for a lefty reliever and with cash to spend, may be World Series-bound this year? Well, one would have to look only about 11 miles away from Citi Field to find a trading partner for the Mets. Brian Cashman, pick up the phone.
This is, of course, not a novel idea. Mike Silva suggested a Juan Miranda-for-Billy Wagner swap and Bart Hubbuch has been pushing a trade to the Bronx as well. The Yankees could be, to borrow a phrase, a perfect fit for Billy Wagner. They have the cash, the potential mid-level prospect and the need for him. Let’s make a deal.
Looked good in his first outting. If it only costs Miranda, why not.
It also costs 3.5 million(2.5 rest of year and presumably the 1 million buyout too, though Mets might pay some of it), Yankees have been very stingy when it comes to picking up salary this season, presumably near their budget cap.
We all know the money costs, but 95MPH from the left side, not knowing how good Damaso will be, it’s a no-brainer if the Yankees want a good lefty.
Oh yeah, Wagner seems like he’s back and he’s always been a tremendous reliever when he’s healthy. (180 ERA+ career, Mo might be the best ever but Wagner is arguably the second best reliever the last decade or so)
I would love to have an arm like that in the pen but it is extremely expensive, 3.5 million is a lot for a month and half of work for a reliever.
Miranda will never see time in the Bronx.
Except for the time he’s already seen in the Bronx, of course.
Mike Silva suggested a Juan Miranda-for-Billy Wagner swap…
You twisted my arm. I’ll throw in Anthony Claggett, Kevin Cash, and Cody Ransom as well.
But not Hungry hungry Humberto, Doppleganger-Melky, or Shelley Duncan, or Chris Duncan (Even though he isn’t with us…yet, but, because in TSJC’s eyes he is destined for the this organization)
I’m still trying to convince Mariano Duncan to come out of retirement.
Well, if the Yanks are taking on $3.5 million, the Mets aren’t going to get much more than a Miranda type in return.
I know. I wasn’t saying that Miranda wouldn’t be enough.
It was more along the lines of “You can have these guys too, if you want, because they have no redeeming value and I literally couldn’t give two shits about them”.
This seems like a perfect Red Sox block opportunity. They dont want him on the yanks and if they get stuck with him, I dont think they’d mind the money.
That would allow us to have a possibility of 3 lefties in the bullpen?
anddd we could have Enter Sandman play twice in one game!
How cool would that be?
…No, but we could take away Enter Sandman from the wannabe. This way there’s only one Enter Sandman, and it’s for the original and best closer ever, not billy wagner.
We could give Billy Wagner #41 too.
Yeah, the Dave Matthews one.
I still think Wagner should enter to Ride of the Valkryies.
That would be pimp.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V92OBNsQgxU (safe)
amazing.
We could play Apocalypse Now on the huge DiamondVision screen in CF.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz3Cc7wlfkI (safe)
I think we should play this for Phil Hughes… For his time remaining in the bullpen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzdeH6MaNVI
Probably would have to turn it off after two minutes…the rest might scare the children in the stadium and offend a few people. But otherwise I’m on board
and billy could start pronouncing his last name “vog-ner”
Hey … it’s “Victory at Sea.”
billy wagner used enter sandman before mo did. there is a NYT article about it from a few years ago
idc if Billy Wagner wrote the song Enter Sandman.
I don’t care if Billy Wagner’s first name was “Enter” and his last name was “Sandman”.
That song goes to Mariano. Because he is the balls.
Damn right!1!
IETC.
+42
Greatest. comment. ever.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04.....5mets.html
and wikipedia links to this article saying the same thing
Prior to the 2006 season, a minor controversy occurred in New York City when Yankees fans objected to new Mets closer Billy Wagner using “Enter Sandman” as his entrance music, as they believed he had encroached on Rivera’s territory in New York; many were unaware Wagner had used the song longer than Rivera had.[26]
http://rlv.zcache.com/i_dont_g.....wl_400.jpg
ok quit that shit. people in the office are looking at me funny, and we’re on a very serious conference call
actually , wags had it before rivera.
http://www.djouls.com/bigdada/.....Care_b.jpg (safe)
while this might be a good idea, esp if it only costs miranda…..will the yanks take on that much salary?
If it is not my 2.5 million, I’m all for it!!!
Thanks for the link guys.
I found Mets fans humorously funny when they trashed Miranda. Now, I don’t think Miranda is Mark Teixeira, but he has some decent numbers at AAA. He very well could have been the Yankees starting 1B if they didn’t acquire Tex. Some Mets fans rather not get anything good from the Yanks because they don’t want to help the Yanks. They trash Miranda, with one fan saying he “only” has an OBP of .350 – excuse me?
As for throwing in Anthony Claggett, bring it on. I thought asking for more than one prospect would sound greedy.
Wagner would be PERFECT for the Yankees. I was at the game last night and he consistently hit 95 mph on the gun. His command was slightly off (just against Chipper), but that could be due to nerves. This type of acquisition would make the Yankees bullpen nasty.
As a Mets fan Wagner deserves another shot at a ring – I hope it happens and the Mets could get a solid prospect in return.
Juan Miranda would instantly be, like, the 6th or 7th best player in their whole pathetic organization.
Gift horse, mouth.
They had Dan Murphy 3rd, Jeff Francouer 4th, and Cory Sullivan 5th yesterday, I think 6th or 7th best might be overrating their lineup right now. I was comparing their middle of lineup with Scranton’s of AJax, Shelley, and Miranda, and I’m not sure I would take the Mets’, that’s kind of sad.
Didn’t think of it that way – great point.
Of course, to be fair, the Yanks losing Tex, Jeter, A-Rod, and Cano at one time would make their lineup pretty weak as well.
yeah but swisher at 1b, hinske at 3b hairston at ss pena at 2b and like a melky in rf and gardner in cf is still waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than what the mets run out there
Plus the Yankees starting pitching is much better.
No, no, I was saying he’d be like the 7th best player in their entire org.
Irrespective of injury. Even when they get Reyes and Beltran and all the rest back, Miranda would be like the 7th best player they have under contract, dead or alive.
I would grade Miranda only slightly below Keith Hernandez’s mustache.
wear the mustache.
im not wearing your mustache
why not you are in the store you wear themustache
im not wearing your mustache
Yeah, I misread that. Still, Delgado and Sheffield are gone after this year. They’ve got Beltran, Reyes, and Wright, and Castillo that are starting caliber players. After that, I don’t know if anyone is a clear cut bet to be better than Miranda.
Miranda would bat cleanup for them tonight.
Meaning that he’d see the Bronx next year during the Subway Series?
GOTCHA, BO!
i may be the only one, but i think claiming billy wagner after he throws ONE inning since coming back from surgery is silly. obviously the mets are tricking a team into thinking they’ve caught lightning in a bottle – good for them. but is it a given that he’ll hold up for the rest of the season?
i don’t know..seems REALLY short sighted to judge a guy post-TJS on one inning of work.
Well, scouts who watched his rehab appearances saw similar results. Sometimes, that’s a chance you have to take. The Yankees need Wagner for 2.5 months at most, and that’s it.
obviously the mets are tricking a team into thinking they’ve caught lightning in a bottle
so what youre saying is they sent him out there and told him, hey we know youre nto healed and sucky, but throw 95 and strike two guys out so we can trick someone into trading for you?
Immutable Rule #1 of Baseball:
The Mets have never tricked anyone into anything.
The Mets trick themselves. Well, idk, got Johan for Gonzalez… I think that was just realizing how stupid Bill Smith was.
Correct. The Johan deal wasn’t the Mets pulling a fast one on the Twins, it was the Twins screwing up epically and painting themselves in a corner.
“it was the Twins screwing up epically and painting themselves in a corner”
In a room that didn’t actually need to be painted. And they used lead paint. And then drank it.
The Mets once tricked the Tampa Bay Devil Rays into taking Scott Kazmir off their hands. They even landed Victor Zambrano in the process.
Joe McIlvane: What’s that? You’ll give me Carlos Baerga and Alvaro Espinoza and all I have to give you is Jeff Kent and Jose Vizcaino? YOU GOT A DEAL, BUDDY!
He made 7 appearances in the minors before and scouts were very impressed with his stuff so it’s not just 1 game. Really if it’s just the money, I would give it a shot, but Yankees have been very cost conscious lately (Sherman also noted that they don’t currently have interest in Wagner) so I am not holding my breath on this one, but it’s an interesting idea.
zs190
You are correct. Not sure how realistic a trade for Wagner would be. There are no indications that the teams have even talked about it.
“obviously the mets are tricking a team into thinking they’ve caught lightning in a bottle ”
That’s far from obvious.
This guy was a premier arm before the surgery, and it looks like his velo is fine. His command may prove to be shakier than it appeared last night, but I assume he had a rehab assignment. And I assume the Yanks had some guys looking at him during that assignment.
If they think his command will be good enough, pay the money and send over a warm body. It’s kind of a no-brainer. The upside, if tsjc, is ridiculous. And the risk is money.
Give them both Duncan and Miranda and let them try Miranda at first and Duncan in Left (they should let Sheffield go to whoever claims him off irrevocable waivers).
would the Yankees really add that much salary though? they seemed pretty against it from what was being reported around the trade deadline. but adding Wagner would be killer. even if Marte rights his ship in the last month.
True, but most of the other options of adding on money were guys who were both way more money AND way crappier.
I can understand saying “We’re not going to add money” when that money is 15M for Bronson Arroyo or 26M for Aaron Harang.
This is 2.5M for an elite closer.
thats true. plus it would only be a one year thing compared to a multi-year situation with either of those guys. this move would seriously anchor the bullpen.
This is 2.5 for a headcase 38 year old coming off TJ who has all of 1IP this season. You guys love to rehab players in the majors, eh?
I believe he’s pitched 7 rehab appearances in the minors. Now I wouldn’t classify that as extensive, that is more than the mere 1ip that you suggest.
I would also assume that scouts watched those rehab appearances as well. Most teams know the Mets are out of it and Wagner could be a tradeable commodity that could help a team down the stretch or in the playoffs. So I would imagine that they watched his rehab appearances closely.
That all being said, of course there is no guarantee that he is all the way back. If he ever is, it probably wouldn’t be until next year.
I assume some scout was watching Wang and Mitre too. It’s generally a bad idea to have people rush right off TJ surgery and onto the MLB roster of your contending team. Disregarding the money, it’s dumb because there’s an 80% chance of him having a setback/being ineffective in the next month.
Also, Miranda isn’t exactly a cheap minor league player. He’s signed to a major league deal through next year so you get some of that money you spend on Wagner covered.
Wagner > Hughes > Mo would be something. I say go for it.
With Wagner in there, you can transition Hughes back into a starter.
Thats what I hope, it adds another arm for the coveted 8th inning and gets rid of our 5th starter troubles, and it gives hughes more innings. Its a win-win in my book.
Wagner > Hughes > Mo would be something. I say go for it.
DUDE! WTF?
never write it that way…you just wrote that wagner was better than hughes who was better than Mo. go get a lightning rod…
Coke/Fredo/Bruney if needed, then Hughes–>Wagner–>Mo.
It becomes an 8 inning game for CC, 6 for AJ, and 5 for Joba, which kinda works out well for him. Andy gets to throw the fourth game, and if needed, CC goes again.
Yeah, next year.
If Hughes was going to be transitioned back into a starter right now, he wouldn’t start in the majors until the middle of September. And then he’d go right back into the bullpen for the playoffs.
Genius!
Not this year.
So what happens if the waivers expire?
Get ‘er done. We would only increase our reputation as the Evil Empire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bzWSJG93P8 (safe)
I don’t know why someone isn’t using this.
hows this for entrance music?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85zp1zVVDAQ
This is perfect for Wagner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG_m6h-XvMo
so you’re saying mine is crap? lol
no, i didn’t look at yours.
I could be wrong, but I believe this is J.D. Drew’s entrance music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHbdC1U1EaE (safe)
I think it is… i could be mistaken.
David Ortiz Music…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmwzEhwScug
Actually, this is David Ortiz’s entrance music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEzdyPx2HdI (safe)
yes, but he would need like a spanish Remix.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vYFBH9m5pc (safe)
Hollywood Hogan! YEAH BRUTHER!
my eyes cant stop deceiving me. even though i know i am reading “waGNer” I cant help but perceive “waNGer” haha
that taiwanese bastard!
hahahaha i’m doing the same thing.
I was at the game last night too. It was also weird how Wagner exited to Enter Sandman when he walked off the mound. The whole thing made me feel a little dirty.
Give Omar a look at the Yankees DSL teams, that is where he will find the best fit for the Mets. He could have anyone (except MC).
And since entrance music seems to be a hot topic… how about this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4Vs3IfH37Y (safe, not the best quality, its a live version)
My preference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHN112IAEh8 (safe)
Give Omar a look at the Yankees DSL teams, that is where he will find the best fit for the Mets. He could have anyone (except MC).
He can have one of those two no-names that got busted for steroids.
Just tell him they drank milkshakes!
He can have anyone beside Juan Heredia, Jose Quintana, Juan Marcano, Omar Sanchez and Deivi Mojica, the mets don’t have good enough players to get one of those 5.
Wouldn’t Wagner have to pass through waivers before he could get to the Yankees?
If so, I’m sure the Red Sox would block the deal since they are behind the Yanks.
Mets could dump Wagner and his 2.5 mil salary on the Sox for nothing when they already have Okajima.
From the article that Ben linked to in the post:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4410591
Clears up all my questions, thanks.
I can’t wait for people to say “these are the new, poor Yankees” because they don’t want to take a flyer on an overpriced 38 year old coming off TJ who has a horrific stretch run/playoff history to throw MAYBE 10 innings the rest of the season.
To follow this point, the string of COMPLETELY unrealistic acquisitions that have become consensus opinions this season has been incredible.
Why don’t these cheap bastards trade for Street? (Top 5 teams LOVE to deal young closers)
Why don’t these cheap bastards trade for Duchscherer (0IP, hasn’t seen a mound at any level in weeks)
They aren’t going to blow prospects and millions and millions of dollars on redundancies/reclamation projects because it’s stupid, not because they don’t have the money on hand.
Prospects? Who said anything about prospects? Plus whats like $4 million (2.7 + buyout) to the Yankees? That’s like half of what they spent on the draft.
If the only prospect cost was Miranda, I’d be all for it.
it’d be interesting to see whether Theo responds with a block. Wagner upgrades the ‘pen to a level Marte simply cant match. question: what becomes of Coke or Marte; does someone go?
he won’t get claimed because if theo claims him whats stopping the mets from just letting him go to boston and them being on the hook for 2.7 mill?
as for roster stuff. there’s only what, 10 games left in august? not even?
so coke goes down til sept 1 because he has options and then boom he is back up. and if miranda is the trade then that solves the 40 man
so coke goes down til sept 1 because he has options and then boom he is back up. and if miranda is the trade then that solves the 40 man
ok i’m not waiting for $man anymore…JSB you call omar…NOW KID!
Yeah I was wondering about that. If Marte is effective then perhaps Coke or Robertson gets sent down. If he isn’t well if the Yanks get Wagner then Marte could go back to AAA I suppose.
3 lefties in the bullpen would be a GOOD problem to have.
We can do the Tony LaRussa 3-pitcher inning, but with 3 lefties!
They can slow the game down to make it a 5 hour game. This way people get more baseball for their dollar.
This is going to sound silly, but if Wagner is claimed, neither Coke nor Robertson should go down. Mitre should be DFA’d. You lost a little bit of flexibility with Gaudin by essentially forcing him to start and having “only” one long man (Aceves) but you could easily cover the loss of flexibility with the extra arm of Wagner. If Wagner is claimed:
Go with a rotation of:
CC
AJ
Andy
Joba
Gaudin
Bullpen:
Mo
Wagner
Hughes
Aceves
Coke
Bruney
Robertson
Marte
Hmm… no.
No elaboration? Just “no?”
Meh, I think my views are probably pretty well known on this topic, no?
I hate Mitre just like everyone else, but I want all available arms to soak up innings in September so we can rest not only Joba, but Andy, CC, and AJ too. So Mitre stays.
He’s cannon fodder, but even cannon fodder is useful.
Fair enough.
Wagner would put us over the top.
Robertson, Bruney, Coke, Wagner, Hughes, Mariano
Holy smokes batman!
Forgot Aceves. That’s not even fair. You could even move Aceves to the starting rotation at that point.
Nah you keep Aceves where he is and use him less. Allows you to keep both Gaudin and Mitre in the rotation though.
You could keep him for next year, then have Wagner close it out for the Wanger.
its 1 PM do you know where your Wagner is?
Hey its after 1pm did the yanks get billy wagner?
Trading Claggett, Miranda, and Cash for Billy Wagner does clear up some roster space and gives the Mets some warm bodies.
Cash as in $$$ or the catcher or the GM
Catcher.
Let’s do a 3 way trade. Mets get Cashman, Yankees get Wonderboy Theo Epstein, and the Red Sox get Omar Minaya!
Pass. lol.
Yeah wagner is probably better than Aceves has been-hard throwing lefties are always valuable. We can get rid of the tin man Damaso Marte-was he not like dominant in Pittsburgh?
John Murphy 2-2 with a Double!!
Money
Off Brooks Pounder too.
Pounder? I barely knew her!
2-3 now. deleon with his 7th hr.
how good is jose ramirez since his numbers look good in the gcl and is pitching a shut out so far today.
He looks good, he has only had one bad game… i don’t know his stuff, but what i heard is that he looks more polished and confident.
He learned a lot from Melvin last year in the DSL.
Now everyone must drink.
I like JR a lot better than John.
no doubt
Thirded
Idk if anyone else is excited, but the possibility of De Leon, Murphy and Heathcott being on the same teams at the same time… Gives me something to look forward to, especially if Heathcott starts out good in GCL.
Fun fact: Johnny Cash’s real first name is J.R. His name got changed to John when he joined the Air Force.
And Juan Miranda is spanish so the mets would love him
ietc
Quick question that the googles couldn’t solve for me:
Wagner is a Type A FA right now, but if the Mets don’t pick up his option are they still entitled to comp picks if he signs elsewhere?
This was one of the theories put forth on Silva’s post by Mets fans not enamored of his Miranda proposal.
no. they he would become a ufa with the mets having no rights. if they kept him through next year they would have his comp rights the following year but would also be risking him at a 12 mil salary.
I believe if the option is declined, the team is entitled to a comp picks. However, in order to get the picks you would have to offer Wagner arbitration, which no one would do since he would probably get like $12M in a arbitration.
don’t they do arbitration based upon the previous years work?
i doubt he would get anywhere near 5 million, let alone 12.
Wagner is a Type A FA right now, but if the Mets don’t pick up his option are they still entitled to comp picks if he signs elsewhere?
They get comp picks if all of these things happen:
1) Mets decline his option
2) Mets offer him arbitration
3) Wagner declines arbitration
4) Wagner signs with another team
If Wagner accepts arbitration, he’ll make around what he makes now, if not more. Considering he’s old and coming off Tommy John, it’s very unlikely that anyone will offer him close to what he’s making now, so the odds are if he was offered arbitration he’d accept it.
Sweet, thanks. Mets fans are smoking crack if they think that is going to happen. The Wilpons are flat broke and paying Wagner his remaining salary plus the 2-3 million or so it would take to sign the comp picks is not happening.
Why would he ever turn down arb?
He’d get 12+mill for a yr
I TOTALLY agree with Ben on this one. I have been eyeing Wagner he is the perfect fit for the Yankees. The only thing is I thinking they might be some teams who need him more who would be willing to give up more in prospect. i.e. Texas.
Wags is a punk. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Team chemistry right now is off the hook! We are going to the WS as is! (if we can beat the angels)
How would he wreck the chemistry? What middle reliever would wreck it?
Agreed. Well said, Bo. Spot on.
an ex-closer? from the other side of town? with the same entrance music as OUR closer? when OUR closer is the best of all time?
i think there would be friction. maybe ego issues. but even worse, what if we got the met’s cooties and choked because of wags?
According to Heyman Billy Wagner was claimed. I will see if we can find out what team, although this news will probably move faster than whatever resources I have.
http://nybaseballdigest.com/?p=14560
Considering we’d be last in line to claim him I don’t think we’ll get him. Plus I don’t think we’d pay the 3.5M to get him.
I think the team will just wait to see if we can’t get anything from Damaso. Otherwise we’ll go into the playoffs with our current roster minus Mitre plus Gardner.
Who is this Damaso you speak of?
I think Mike Silva’s information is accurate so this discussion is over. The Yankees would have had the very last crack at him so it never would have happened.
Station in Florida says its the Red Sox, take it for what its worth.
Cerrone over at Metsblog has the Rays in it as well
http://nybaseballdigest.com/?p=14565
damn the red sox