Dec
23

How do the Yankees keep their moves quiet?

By

We enjoy the baseball off-season differently than our fathers and grandfathers did. MLB Trade Rumors and Twitter add instant gratification to the team building process. This adds a premium to scoops. A MLBTR link or a widespread retweet means more page views for the publication, therefore more advertising revenue. Reporters look under every table, between every seat cushion for a rumor to feed the masses.

With so many guys covering the Yankees — beat writers, columnists, national reporters — it’s easy to imagine that they cover everything. No rumor goes unturned, right? Like, for instance, when the Yankees make an offer to a free agent. This week, ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick said that free agent pitcher Justin Duchscherer would soon decide which of three offers to take. Duchscherer has been connected to the Yankees, but we hadn’t heard of an official offer from them, NBC’s Craig Calcaterra noted.

There has been a lot of chatter about the Yankees being interested lately, but that seems a little late to the game, and no word of an offer has yet seeped out of Yankeeland. Given how many people crawl that beat, I’d be rather surprised if a previously unreported offer had been made by New York.

In a way it would be surprising if an official offer slipped by the pack of repeaters covering the team. Surely one of them has to hear something, right? Yet it appears to be a tough beat in New York. The Yankees have maintained confidentiality these past two winters, as if Brian Cashman ordered his close advisers to take vows of silence. Just ask any of the guys on the Yankees beat. None of the higher ups really say anything.

The way things have run these past two years, I wouldn’t at all be surprised if the Yankees made an offer to Duchscherer. As it turns out they probably didn’t. But that’s because they had another target in mind. On Monday night at 8:41, ESPN’s Buster Olney heard that the Yankees were working on a deal for a starting pitcher. Ken Rosenthal confirmed, and we waited the rest of the night waiting for a name. At just after 9:30 this morning, Joel Sherman found out it was Javy Vazquez. An hour later, we had confirmation of a done deal. The Yankees worked quick and kept things so quiet that reporters couldn’t get as much as a name until an hour before completion.

What’s amazing is how quiet other teams have kept, too. No one from the Braves leaked this to a reporter. We also didn’t get word on the Granderson trade until about 14 hours before completion, and even that was to a pair of national writers who seem to get every scoop. I even wonder, in that case, if the Tigers or the Diamondbacks leaked that to put the pressure on the Yanks. I doubt the leak came from the Yankees, who were the last ones to sign off.

The stealth tactic has worked well. I do wonder exactly how it’s benefited the Yankees. How many deals fall apart after they’re leaked? If that’s a common occurrence, the Yankees are doing themselves a huge favor by keeping that type of information on the down low. Even if it doesn’t help that much, it’s a pretty neat tactic when observing from afar. The Vazquez experience played like a suspense flick. Buster Olney provided the exposition, we waited in suspense while people speculated as to who it could possibly be, then we got the climax, some falling action (made more amusing by some ridiculous reactions), and finally the resolution, an afternoon conference call. I could get used to this mode of operation.

Categories : Hot Stove League

144 Comments»

  1. Bay or Holliday says:

    And now LF……….

  2. Bay or Holliday says:

    DeRosa? No BOOOORRINNGGGG
    Holliday? Wants the moon, no
    Dye? Too Old

    That leaves………………JASON BAY!

    • whozat says:

      Why do you want a DH playing the outfield for the next 5 years? Doesn’t that seem like a terrible, terrible idea?

    • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Glenn Beck Complex says:

      Bay is asking for five years, around $75 million and can’t play the outfield. If they’re going to spend that kind of money (which they won’t), they may as well just get Holliday, someone who can actually play defense. Otherwise, stand pat, or make a trade, or sign a Damon-type short-term deal.

      Bay is not on the list. At all. Not going to happen unless he gets shit-faced drunk, calls Cashman on his home phone number, fires his agent and demands that Cashman fax him a 2-year deal for under $10 million a season.

      As much as I hate to say it, we’re absolutely fine with Gardner in LF. No reason to blow $75 million and 5 years on a guy who’s basically a DH. You don’t need an All Star at every position.

      • “As much as I hate to say it, we’re absolutely fine with Gardner in LF.”

        That must have been difficult, I’m proud of you.

        • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Glenn Beck Complex says:

          I’d rather have Gardner in LF if it means having Javy in the rotation than I would Melky in LF and fewer answers in the starting rotation. I try to be reasonable, despite my hatred of Gardner.

          For me, this hinges on whether Hughes actually gets some innings and can develop this year. I’ll buy Gardner a few rounds myself if he hits .260/.340/.340 and Hughes gets over 120 innings, either in AAA or in the ML.

          He’ll play excellent defense in LF and can still snag a few bases. That’s more important than signing an overpaid veteran or trading more of the farm for a LFer. We’ve already spent enough money and lost enough depth in the farm. Grab Escobar, Chapman and call it an off season.

    • or JOHNNY DAMON!
      or A TRADE!

  3. Mr.Jigginz says:

    How do they keep their moves silent,you say???Blow darts.Lots of em’.

  4. Bay or Holliday says:

    They openly lie, the best deception.

    We’re poor, no more money here folks, really.

  5. danny says:

    “How many deals fall apart after they’re leaked?”

    you can say it might of played a role with Tex when the angels and sux couldnt keep their mouths shut, or it could’ve just been the fact that the yanks were willling to pay the most money ;)

  6. Phil McCracken says:

    I think the silence on Teixeira front helped the Yankees tremendously.

    It seemed like Boston was completely blind sided when the Yankees swooped in and signed Teixeira because they thought they were bidding against themselves.

  7. Drew says:

    It’s pretty sick how airtight Cash & Co are.

  8. Crazy Eyes Killa says:

    This has been a crazy offseason. Cashman truly is a ninja, and he’s run circles around Epstein since Teixeira.

  9. “What’s amazing is how quiet other teams have kept, too.”

    This really is an interesting angle… The Yankees seem to have an M.O. of silence during trade or FA negotiations, but how are their trading partners and FA targets kept so quiet, as well? Do the Yankees make it clear that they’ll walk and look into other options if the other parties to their deals leak information to the press before the deal is basically agreed upon?

    • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Glenn Beck Complex says:

      That would be my guess. They’re clearly very serious about this and must give the other team a severe disincentive to talk.

      • Well the only disincentive they can give is that they’ll walk, which really just shows how much weight the Yankees have to throw around in these deals. I don’t know if many other organizations could give such an ultimatum and still be active on the market (i.e. if other teams tried to act this way, I think they’d have to walk away from a lot of deals). It’s impressive that the Yankees, due to their money and their collection of MLB and MiLB talent, can make such a demand and have it adhered to as often as we’ve seen.

        Take this deal for example… If the Braves were dealing with another team, they probably would have benefited from leaking some info to the press and trying to get other possible trade partners involved to drive up the bidding. But they were dealing with the only potential trade partner in town that could give them both financial relief and the talent they were looking for, so they were incentivized to act differently than they would normally act.

        Whatever, it’s not the most important point in the world, I just think it’s interesting. The Yankees are in a pretty unique position when they go into the FA or trade markets.

        • Drew says:

          That’s all true. It could also just be like a gentleman’s agreement.

          Cash could just say, “This is how we do business. If you cannot conform to our policy it will impact future negotiations.”

          • Well, yeah, it’s a gentlemen’s agreement either way. I’m not saying they make anyone sign confidentiality agreements or anything.

            And yeah, they don’t necessarily have to threaten to walk if their counterparts leak information, but I’m not sure what saying ‘your failure to keep quiet may affect future negotiations’ actually, like, means. Are they going to be extra super stubborn the next time they deal with a party that leaks information? Their only recourse if they’re going to ask for media silence, really, is, at some point in the process, to walk away.

            • Drew says:

              Well, walking away refers to the deal being negotiated at that time.

              Affecting future negotiations is just as simple as, unless you have something we desperately want/need, we won’t do business in the future.

              I think we’re talking about the same thing, I just consider a gentleman’s agreement to be less of a threat and more of an understanding between two parties.

        • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Glenn Beck Complex says:

          Exactly. Due to their financial might and how they often set the tone for the market, the Yankees have the ability and positioning to make such demands. The Oakland A’s can’t say, “Hey, you leak any of this, deal’s off.” The other team says, “Hah. Alright, there are many teams with similar payrolls, needs and players to offer. And you won’t eat salary for some of our salary-eating contracts. See you, I’m out.”

          The Yankees can say, “Guess what, if you leak any of this deal, not only is it off and you lose a team that’s willing to take on salary and deal players on a pretty good farm system BUT we hear word that you’re tight-lipped, we won’t deal with you indefinitely.”

          I’m not saying they (would) do that, and I’m sure it limits their options, but that creates a huge problem for the opposing team, one that at the least gives them good reason not to leak Yankee deals.

          Just a 1 AM theory.

          • Januz says:

            You are exactly right about the power of the Yankees compared to other teams. But it not simply financial might, it is about having the upper hand in negotiations. The 2009 draft was a good example of this: In most cases, they could afford to pick and choose who they wanted to sign based on factors like the prestige of the organization, talent, potential, drafting, and interest in playing for the organization (See Bryan Mitchell, who Damon Oppenheimer singled out as really wanting to play in the Yankees Organization, and whose sole goal is not money), as well as money. Slade Heathcott was an exception, he had the Yankees over a barrel: Sign me, or lose the pick, so they ponyed up for him, instead of losing him, or increasing the budget (And perhaps cost themselves a chance to sign other draft picks).

  10. All I know is that with this new strategy the legendary “Package built around Melky and IPK” netted us Granderson and Javy Vazquez!
    :)

  11. manimal529 says:

    Don’t forget about how Tex wanted every team to keep quiet while bidding for him and the Angels/Red Sox/Orioles all opened their mouths to the media while the yanks quietly swooped in and signed him.

  12. Salty Buggah says:

    I’m happy Cash keeps his moves quiet because if he was going to do something as dumb as this, he would be killed before actually going through with it.

    (BTW, I know Cash wont do anything like that. That is simply stupid)

    • Jack says:

      Instead, the exec suggests that the Yankees keep both youngsters in their bullpen and make Chad Gaudin their fifth starter.

      Not a crazy thought.

      Crazy? Probably, but maybe not. Horrendously retarded? Absofrigginlutely.

      • Salty Buggah says:

        Of course a rival executive would say that! If the Yanks make such a move, it obviously makes them worse. That move would be advantageous to the rival exec’s team.

      • Salty Buggah says:

        I know Rosenthal has to write some articles and post all the news he gets. But does he HAVE to post dumb shit some executive said? OK, he may not think its dumb but still.

        I guess he knows this will get Yanks fans all fired up and will lead to more page views.

    • I imagine that rival executives would like us to put Granderson in the rotation and Vazquez in CF. Why in the world would a rival suggest helpful ideas?

      • Salty Buggah says:

        No, I’d imagine they would like us to put our current starters on the bench and then sign many utility guys to start. That would make our bench unbeatable. Easily the bench in the majors. In the late innings, the Yanks will have many viable bench options to unleash. And if one of the starters gets hurt, our bench can do a great job filling in.

        Starters to the bullpen + starters to the bench = Success!

  13. Most baseball writers go on vacation after the Winter Meetings. Guys have unused vacation or personal days to use up before the end of the calendar year. So you have a lot of general assignment writers trying to cover the team ad they don’t have the contracts among GMs and agents.

    If guys aren’t actually on vacation, they’re busy attending to their families and doing all the things they didn’t have time for during the season because they were on the road so often. At some point, coaching your kid’s team or fixing something in your house becomes more important than chasing down rumors. You can’t hammer the beat for 365 days, nobody can.

  14. Drew says:

    Speaking of Cash’s ninja moves. If you’re wondering(like I am) exactly what he said in the hot stove segment tonight, it starts at 1 am. His interview is in the first few minutes.

    • Salty Buggah says:

      Let us know what he says. I dont have MLB Network.

      • Drew says:

        Alright.

        In a follow-up to an answer Cash gave about JD, Reynolds asked Cash if he was looking to announce any other deals, maybe a LFer, maybe a guy who can play all around, or any other players? To which Cash replied “we are almost prepared to announce a signing, I’m sure it’s nothing that you guys haven’t already spoken about… We just need to cross the t’s and dot the i’s.”

        Then the guys at MLB Network began kicking around names on what the hell Cash was talking about. They assumed it’s a left fielder and likely DeRosa.

        It came across to me that he was referring to NJ. Cash doesn’t announce signings until they are official, 100% done deal. To the best of my knowledge, NJ has yet to take his physical which would finalize the deal.

  15. Januz says:

    The old Navy adage “Loose Lips Sink Ships” applies to business negotiations as well. Cashman has shown agents, players, and GM’s just how a professional operates. The Teixeira example comes to mind. What we saw, was a case study in how and how NOT to conduct negotiations. What Boston did, was essentially look weak, by essentially coming to his home BEGGING him to come to Fenway, and when he said no, they looked like the “Little Kid Who Was Angry, And Threatened To Take His Marbles Home”. Compare that with the Yankees who met with Teixeira and Boras in private in Washington DC to determine if there was any real interest in coming to The Bronx. When Cashman determined he did, and got permission from Hal Steinbrenner to sign him, he took advantage of Boston’s anger at Boras and Teixeira, and got him signed. Intresting enough, Boston learned that lesson well, and essentially showed Jason Bay the door, when they determined Bay was playing games. This is also what Cashman did with the Granderson and Vasquez trades: Determined if they had a chance to acquire them, and paitently waited until he had a chance, then struck.

    • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Glenn Beck Complex says:

      I usually disagree with you but in this case I think you’re spot-on. Well said.

    • Just because the Sox’ method didn’t work in the Tex situation, and the Yanks’ method did, doesn’t mean one way is the right way and one way is the wrong way. The whole ‘going to the player’s home and making a personal pitch’ thing worked just fine for Theo when he was courting Schilling, not to mention for Cashman when he was courting CC last offseason.

      And who’s to say that Boston acted the way they did towards Bay because they learned a lesson from the Tex situation? They stuck to their guns and essentially showed Damon and Pedro the door years before doing the same with Bay.

      I’m sorry, but I’m not sure much of your comment makes a whole lot of sense.

      • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Glenn Beck Complex says:

        Meh, it’s all conjecture and guess-work at this point, but there may actually be a right way and a wrong way. Sure, we don’t know which, and are judging through the prism of pure results, but it doesn’t mean there wasn’t a method or methods that were correct or incorrect. We agree Cash is an excellent GM, but think he often misreads whom to offer arb. Maybe Theo has the same problem which tactics (not whom to pursue and whom not to pursue) to use when negotiating?

        I may have been too quick to dole praise to Januz’s post, since it does have some logic holes, but the fact is, fallaciously looking back solely on results and the hard line, I think they’ve done a better job negotiating than last season. Maybe it means they’ve learned from last season’s “error,” maybe not.

        • “Maybe Theo has the same problem which tactics (not whom to pursue and whom not to pursue) to use when negotiating?”

          There’s no right way and/or wrong way in general (which I know you don’t disagree with)… But also, to look at one example of Theo losing out on a player to Cashman (the Tex example) and say that Theo has a general problem with knowing how to negotiate is jumping the gun. If someone wants to do a more comprehensive study of his record (which is difficult because they’d have to identify the guys he lost out on, which isn’t so easy), I’m all ears, but there’s no way we can jump to that conclusion just because he lost Tex. I’d be shocked if there’s not one example in Theo’s career, prior to 2009, of him signing a free agent without a highly public courtship and/or visit to the player’s home to court him.

          And this stuff about Theo somehow learning some lesson from how he lost Tex and Cashman got him is just silly. Theo (not to mention the rest of the Sox F.O.) is a very smart guy who’s not new to this whole negotiating thing. It’s ridiculously patronizing and naive to say that he didn’t realize negotiating in private is sometimes the better tactic until Cashman showed him the way. I, as someone with academic/practical experience with negotiating, am well aware of that, so I’d have to imagine that someone who conducts high profile negotiations for a multi-million (or billion) dollar business is also well aware of that (and, again, not to mention the other people in that front office with Theo). And the record doesn’t even show that he learned that lesson, he was making moves away from the public eye, and cutting players loose who wouldn’t accede to his demands, before he watched the Yanks steal Tex or cut Damon loose, and he has continued doing so after. There’s just nothing there to back up that particular assertion, it’s ridiculous.

          I think you guys are overreacting to one incident (the Tex negotiations) and kinda running with a pro-Cash and anti-Theo narrative that I don’t think is backed up by the historical record.

          • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Glenn Beck Complex says:

            All I said was “maybe” as a question. I have no idea if that’s the case or not. And for what it’s worth, let’s not pretend that smart people in high profile positions don’t make poor assessments or have weaknesses within certain composite sections of their job. You’re probably right that it’s overblown and inaccurate to think that he’s not a strong negotiator. I don’t want you to think I don’t respect how good a GM Theo is. I’m not trying to undermine or understate what he does. He’s a very, very good GM, probably among the top 3 in baseball.

            What I’m saying is there may have been a right and wrong tactic for that situation/player/agent and he misread it. Cashman may have done the same thing with when to offer arb. to certain players. They’re GMs, not deities.

            Maybe Theo recognizes the same sort of situation with Bay this time, the overall market and says, “I’m going to be definitive and then pursue other options,” because of X,Y,Z. They seemed to have a better grasp on the market this season and I’m merely saying it’s possible they learned from the past. I may have not expressed my thoughts well last time—I’m not trying to read a larger trend from just the Tex negotiations, I’m merely thinking aloud that perhaps he’s learned from previous negotiations and has adjusted tactics accordingly.

            • I’ll let this go, just a few points before I retire from the conversation…

              “And for what it’s worth, let’s not pretend that smart people in high profile positions don’t make poor assessments or have weaknesses within certain composite sections of their job.”

              For Theo and his cohorts in the Boston FO to be learning the lessons you guys think they’re learning from the Yankees, they’d have to be completely unqualified for their jobs and they’d have to be morons. I know I’m repeating myself, but I think it’s an important point. These concepts we’re talking about here, they’re incredibly basic negotiating concepts. I literally cannot imagine a world in which a bunch of guys with the education/experience of the guys in the Boston front office don’t know these things. The idea strains credulity.

              “What I’m saying is there may have been a right and wrong tactic for that situation/player/agent and he misread it. Cashman may have done the same thing with when to offer arb. to certain players. They’re GMs, not deities.”

              I don’t think I ever disagreed with this assertion. And that’s not really all you’ve been saying, you’ve been saying that the Boston guys learned some kind of lesson from what the Yanks have done the last couple of offseasons. I mean, yeah… Saying “maybe” changes things… I’m not sure how to respond to someone saying “maybe X, but maybe Y.” That’s kind of a statement of fact, not an opinion or argument. Whether X or Y is more reasonable is arguable, though, and that’s what I’ve been dealing with.

              “Maybe Theo recognizes the same sort of situation with Bay this time, the overall market and says, “I’m going to be definitive and then pursue other options,” because of X,Y,Z.”

              Again… Yeah… Maybe. But since he did nothing different with Bay than what he did with Damon and Pedro when their contracts expired, I don’t think that’s the most reasonable explanation.

              • One more thing… I said this below, but I think it’s the most important point in this conversation…

                Let’s stop with this mythology about the Yankees signing Tex because they were more private about the negotiations than Tex’s other suitors (like the Sox). The Yankees signed Tex because he and his wife like NY and because the Yankees made the highest bid for him. It’s not like he took a lower offer from the Yanks because they conducted their pursuit so quietly.

                This entire argument, that Cashman was some sort of genius for how he dealt with Tex and Theo somehow messed up, is based on a faulty premise. The Yanks didn’t get Tex because they were quiet and Boston was public in the negotiations, they got Tex because they offered him the most money (and maybe also because he wanted to play here, who knows).

          • Januz says:

            I have no direct insight into the Red Sox war room. But I do not think it was Epstein who messed up the Texiera situation. I have little doubt it was ownership (Like Hank with A-Rod). John Henry’s anger at Tex and his Twitters are hints of this. To this day, Epstein regrets during the time he was away, ownership traded away Henley Ramirez. Did it help Boston? Obviously Beckett brought them the Championship, but Epstein believes (And perhaps rightly so), that they could have gotten Beckett without trading Ramirez (Based on Florida’s history). Ownership simply jumped the gun in this case, and to this day, have not adequately replaced Ramirez.
            I have a lot of respect for Epstein and believe he will be in the Hall Of Fame one day (As will Cashman), it is OWNERSHIP that needed to learn to treat baseball like the business that it is, and listen to the Theo Epstein’s and Brian Cashman’s of the world.

            • I don’t even know how to respond to this… The Beckett deal is irrelevant to this conversation. Even if I look at the Beckett deal in the context in which you cite it, just for the sake of the conversation, I can’t see the relevance. The problem you seem to have with the Beckett deal, and the problem you think Theo has with that deal, is just that the deal went down and you think Beckett wouldn’t have made the deal, it’s not a problem with how publicly or privately the deal was negotiated, or even just how the deal was negotiated, at all.

              You keep trying to peel back another layer to find something that will fit your narrative, but I don’t think it’s working.

        • “I may have been too quick to dole praise to Januz’s post, since it does have some logic holes, but the fact is, fallaciously looking back solely on results and the hard line, I think they’ve done a better job negotiating than last season. Maybe it means they’ve learned from last season’s “error,” maybe not.”

          • “I may have been too quick to dole praise to Januz’s post, since it does have some logic holes, but the fact is, fallaciously looking back solely on results and the hard line, I think they’ve done a better job negotiating than last season. Maybe it means they’ve learned from last season’s ‘error,’ maybe not.”

            It’s ONE incident you’re looking at. By that reasoning, we can look at any player the Yankees, or any other team, coveted and failed to sign and determine that they changed their strategies/tactics in reaction to that one failure. Again… You can draw that conclusion, but only after looking at more deals than the Tex, Cameron and Lackey deals. You have to look at other situations, both before and after the one incident you’re focusing in on, in order to support any sort of conclusion about what the Sox may have changed or not changed about their approach. There’s just not enough here in these arguments to come close to supporting the conclusions you guys are drawing.

            I think this is all quite myopic. As far as this idea that the Sox cut Bay loose because they’re taking after the Yankees… A year or two ago Yankees fans were pining away for the Yanks to be as cold-blooded as the Sox are with their free agents. When the Yanks doled out big deals to guys like Posada and Rivera more than a few Yankees fans expressed the opinion that the Yanks should be more like the Sox were with Damon and Pedro and not overpay their free agents. Now, all of a sudden, the Sox are the ones learning that lesson from the Yankees? I think some people are overreacting to some unrelated incidents, here, and assuming everything about these teams is interrelated.

            • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Glenn Beck Complex says:

              My conclusion is actually a bit half-baked because it’s not really all that conclusive. You make it sound like I’ve been speaking in definitive terms. I haven’t. I’ve been thinking aloud as to if Theo has gotten better at negotiating and picturing the market as time goes by. It’s reasonable to assume that smart people get better at their jobs as the years pass. I’m not trying to extrapolate some sort of theory based solely on the Tex deal, but I think

              However, what I’m saying is that Theo may have realized a better way of negotiating with certain players or types of players in specific market conditions.

              My only comparison to Cashman is that Cashman (in my opinion) misses on when to offer arb. to certain players, so it’s not unreasonable to think that it’s possible Theo may have missed on a negotiating technique with certain players. I don’t see what’s so outlandish about that.

        • “I may have been too quick to dole praise to Januz’s post, since it does have some logic holes, but the fact is, fallaciously looking back solely on results and the hard line, I think they’ve done a better job negotiating than last season. Maybe it means they’ve learned from last season’s “error,” maybe not.”

      • Januz says:

        I agree with you that there is no clear-cut fool-proof method in business negotiations. But when it comes to dealing with certain people (Scott Boras comes to mind) you have to avoid the pitfalls he creates (One of which is always looking to get the upper hand over teams, through any means necessary (A prime reason he is very good)). You cannot equate the CC situation with Tex, because it was very different, because of the Boras factor, and because Cashman felt that Tex was not as reluctant to come to NY as CC was (Michael Kay commented on this when he talked about how prepared Tex was for The Bronx at his press conference (Much more than CC or AJ)). So these two situations required a different approach.
        I cannot state with certainity that the Teixeira case taught something to Boston, but it is interesting that when Bay said no, they got something done QUICKLY and QUIETLY with Lackey and Cameron. They did not play games, so when Bay came back and wanted to negotiate, it was too late. This is what happened to Johnny Damon as well: The Yankees did not like the threats and demands of Boras, and responded in a way he did not expect: They signed Nick Johnson as an alternative, and left Damon in the cold.

        • Hold on… So Cashman was right to go and make a personal pitch to CC in his home, because he wasn’t sure CC wanted to come pitch in NY… But Theo was wrong to go make a personal pitch to Tex in his home? Maybe Theo and co. ascertained, accurately, that they had to lobby Tex to get him to Boston. You think Cash was right to go lobby a possibly reluctant player, but Theo was wrong to do the same? If Cash felt Tex wasn’t reluctant to come to NY, who’s to say that Theo didn’t feel that he was reluctant to come to Boston? By your reasoning, Theo did the right thing by personally lobbying Tex.

          And it’s ridiculous, as I said above, to look at this one example, the Tex situation, and decide, based on that one example, that Theo doesn’t know when to negotiate in private or in public and that Cashman taught him some sort of lesson last offseason. You’re building a narrative you like (pro-Cash and anti-Theo) off of one example. All of this stuff… You’re just trying to fit all this into this narrative you’ve created, but none of it really fits.

          “I cannot state with certainity that the Teixeira case taught something to Boston, but it is interesting that when Bay said no, they got something done QUICKLY and QUIETLY with Lackey and Cameron. They did not play games, so when Bay came back and wanted to negotiate, it was too late.”

          They did the same thing, years ago, with Damon and Pedro. They decided what they were willing to pay, and when the players didn’t agree with those figures, they said ‘thanks for the memories’ and moved on to their next options. This thing you think they learned from the Yankees… They were doing it years before the 08-09 or 09-10 offseasons, as were the Yankees. They would have to be not only completely unqualified, but they’d have to be morons, to have first learned that lesson from Cashman in 2008.

          (One more thing… Let’s stop with this mythology about the Yankees signing Tex because they were more private about the negotiations than Tex’s other suitors (like the Sox). The Yankees signed Tex because he and his wife like NY and because the Yankees made the highest bid for him. It’s not like he took a lower offer from the Yanks because they conducted their pursuit so quietly.)

          • Januz says:

            I am just about done, but a couple of points about this discussion:
            1: Bay vs Pedro and Damon. They do not consider Bay a Diminishing Marginal Return of an Investment like they did with Pedro and Damon. A very different circumstance.
            2: CC vs Tex. In the case of CC, it was the GM NOT OWNERSHIP going to meet with him in CA. More importantly however, it was NOT about money, it was to allay Mrs. Sabathia’s fears about NY (Which is very understandable). Tex and Boras were ALMOST all about money (The Nationals offered the highest bid, so I will say it is 99% about money instead of 100%).

            • “1: Bay vs Pedro and Damon. They do not consider Bay a Diminishing Marginal Return of an Investment like they did with Pedro and Damon.”

              False. That’s precisely why they don’t want to re-sign him for the money he’s seeking.

              “2: CC vs Tex. In the case of CC, it was the GM NOT OWNERSHIP going to meet with him in CA.”

              Who gives a shit who it was? Also… In the Tex/Boston case, it was the GM and ownership, not just ownership, wasn’t it? Not that it matters.

              “More importantly however, it was NOT about money, it was to allay Mrs. Sabathia’s fears about NY (Which is very understandable).”

              Maybe… It was probably about money, but maybe Mrs. Sabathia’s concerns were a big deal. But, by that token, why weren’t Mrs. Teixeira’s concerns just as big a deal in the Boston negoations with Tex? I still fail to see the difference.

              “Tex and Boras were ALMOST all about money (The Nationals offered the highest bid, so I will say it is 99% about money instead of 100%).”

              How do you, Januz, know how much Tex’s decision was about money and how much was about his wife’s concerns, and how much CC’s decision was about money and how much was about his wife’s concerns?

              You’re just telling this story the way that makes it fit your narrative. Tex was all about the money and not about his wife, while CC wasn’t about the money but his wife was very important… Says you. I see two players who took the highest bids they received and apparently consulted with their wives before accepting such bids.

              (And did the Nats really offer the highest bid? I don’t remember hearing that, confirmation would be great. Not sure how that matters in the Boston vs. NY for Tex competition, though.)

              • Januz says:

                Here is proof of the Nats and Tex.admit it, whether or not I thought it was a good idea, I was starting to believe. Especially after reading last night’s report that the Washington Nationals had increased their initial offer to free agent first baseman Mark Teixeira from 8-years and $160M to somewhere around 8-years/$178-184M, leading me to speculate that Washington had upped their offer to outpace any of the other teams still in the chase for the 28-year old switch-hitting slugger. Then I remembered…

                It’s the Yankees’ world, we’re all just living in it. (mumbles…”$423.5M on 3 players…”)

                In the end it didn’t matter if Washington had been at the high end of their reported $184M dollar offer to Teixeira, because, as MLB.com’s Bill Ladson reports in his article on the end of the Nationals’ chase entitled, (somewhat misleadingly), “Nationals fall short in Teixeira bidding”, quoting another in a seemingly endless supply of anonymous major league sources:
                Mark Teixeira Turns Down The Washington Nationals In Favor Of The Evil Empire…The New York Yankees.
                Tex had 3 opportunities to sign long-term contracts with teams: Texas, Atlanta and Anaheim and he and Boras rejected all 3 (In fact, the Tex situation is why Moreno and the Angels want nothing to do with Boras). Moreno felt used, as did John Henry. Again, it is almost all about the money (The break the Yankees got was no Boras opt-out-clause).

            • Vince says:

              I wonder if “Mondesi” and “Overshare” get off every night on having p*ssing contests with people theyve never met on Yankees fan message board?

              • Totally! It’s much cooler to post a comment on a message board making fun of other people for posting comments on message boards.

                (making wanking motion with hand)

                • Vince says:

                  Look everyone, hes off…

                  I dont demean anyone posting on message boards, just anyone who would spend the ridiculous amount of time you both do attempting to prove a point.

                  Night.

                • steve says:

                  yeah dont forget mike pop anytime someone gives their opinion they jump all over them if you dont like it dont comment on it just move on its crazy that someone gives their opinion and giets ambushed by 2 guys all the time

                • DP says:

                  giets ambushed by 2 guys all the time

                  Spicy!

                • pat says:

                  Usually you pay double for that kind of action, Cotton!

                • Mike Pop says:

                  yeah dont forget mike pop anytime

                  Don’t you dare put me in the same category as Mondesi and Overshare.

                  Even so, I really don’t think I jump down people’s throats all that often.

                • pat says:

                  Smack the taste out of his mouth!

                • “yeah dont forget mike pop anytime someone gives their opinion they jump all over them if you dont like it dont comment on it just move on its crazy that someone gives their opinion and giets ambushed by 2 guys all the time”

                  There’s an easy way to not have people tell you when you’ve said something stupid, steve… Don’t say something stupid.

                  Pop… What did you do to this guy to deserve this kind of ire? You must have really lit into him, he’s upset!

                • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Glenn Beck Complex says:

                  I’m not sure that anyone read the discussions between Mondesi, Januz and I…but we all sort of had different takes on things. There’s no “ganging up” on anyone, so I don’t know where that point came from. As far as “jumping down peoples’ throats,” I may do that from time to time, but most of the regulars on here will probably attest that I’m pretty easy-going most of the time. Believe me, I don’t take this as seriously as you may think.

                  If anything, Mondesi and I enjoy these “pissing contests” because we both value outside opinions and think it’s healthy to have a dialogue over the content generated. Sometimes it takes a while to get things sorted out, but how I value my time is up to me. Sure, we spent a while on that last discussion, and you know what? I’m glad. I’ve realized that much of what I wrote was unfounded. Good, I’m glad to know that instead of walking through with this notion I’m right about something I’m not.

                  I hope your High School crying crusade works out.

                • Co-sign on everything JMK just said.

                  (And just by the way, Vince… You can use the word “pissing” in your comments without substituting an asterisk for one of the vowels, it’s not exactly a curse-word.)

  16. Jobamania says:

    i figured out another ninja move cashman is making. He opened up LF for Jeter and we’ll focus for a more defensive SS. MINDFUCK

  17. Peter Abraham says:

    Nothing is ever air-tight. Based on the timeline of the stories and the comments on his blog, Joel Sherman was on vacation when the rumors started and when he started looking into it, he found out it was Vazquez. I’m just guessing, but somebody probably called him and asked if he would help them out while he was away.

    It’s the holidays, people are busy and/or on vacation. Very few newspapers can afford to employ a backup writer who is as plugged into the team and experienced as the beat writer is. Most papers give their beat writers time off in late December and January. Otherwise they have to pay overtime or for comp time, etc.

    Obviously, teams try and operate under the radar. But the fact of the matter is, most of the guys who cover big-league teams are not working at this time of the year.

    • Jobamania says:

      thanks for the intel, boston.com

    • DP says:

      And Angel Berroa is old!

    • Drew says:

      I’m assuming this is meant to be a reply to my post above.

      I understand what you’re saying. It can be a combination of both, no doubt. What happened last night was wild. No one knew a name and the deal was near completion. This rarely happens, even this time of year.
      A simple search of mlbtr would show countless rumored deals that are being negotiated between players and other organizations.

  18. Justin Bieber says:

    Brian Cashman is one sick dude. I continue to be amazed at how in the blue hell he gets through with these deals. Sick sick GM.

  19. Cashman insinuated that they are working on a deal to fill the LF gap. He said he didn’t want to mention names because “it is not official yet”, but that there could be something soon.

  20. danny says:

    When cashman said hes finishing up a deal on the mlb network, isnt he just talking about johnson? i dont see him talking about another deal that hasnt been discussed about in the media bc that would go against their style of keeping their mouths shut.

  21. The 19th Century Short Porch says:

    Cashman was definetly talking about NJ on MLBN and btw I just read T Kep’s article that said NJ did take his physical and his signing should be announced tomorrow so it all adds up. He mentions it kind of randomly in there though if your looking for it.

  22. The Evil Empire says:

    Hot stove topic i guess:

    If we stick with BG in LF, who would you prefer from this list? 2011 FA

    Left fielders
    Eric Byrnes (35)
    Carl Crawford (29)
    David DeJesus (31) – $6MM club option with a $500K buyout
    Willie Harris (33)
    Jason Kubel (29) – $5.25MM club option with a $350K buyout
    Jason Michaels (35)
    Manny Ramirez (39)

    Center fielders
    Willie Bloomquist (33)
    Jody Gerut (33)
    Willie Harris (33)
    Andruw Jones (34)
    Mark Kotsay (35)
    Jason Michaels (35)
    Corey Patterson (31)
    Willy Taveras (29)

    Right fielders
    Willie Bloomquist (33)
    Jose Guillen (35)
    Brad Hawpe (32) – $10MM club option with a $500K buyout
    Gabe Kapler (35)
    Magglio Ordonez (37) – $15MM club option vests with 135 starts or 540 plate appearances in 2010
    Jayson Werth (32)

  23. TLVP says:

    If the Yankees sign Holliday the best case scenario is that the luxuary tax will go up and go up badly. The bad case scenario is a salary cap. This might still happen because of last year.

    The rest of baseball can’t stand the free spending ways of the Yankees as it is. If the go out and give Holliday a $100m contract we’re toast. The other teams will agree on a salary cap, revenue sharing, whatever they can to stop us.

    When we won 1998-2000 our opening day payroll was

    1998 $65m (2nd highest and one of 8 teams above $58m)
    1999 $88m (highest but one of 9 teams above $70m)
    2000 $92m (highest but one of 8 teams above $75m)

    In effect we were the first among equals. Rich but not noticably richer than the rest.

    Compare that with 2004-2009 when our average payroll has been 46%, 70%, 62%, 33%, 52% and 48% higher than the second highest in MLB. This was semi acceptable as long as we didn’t win it all. In a perverse way, the Yankees spending that much and NOT winning convinced fans of every other team that they had a chance. Now we’ve won it all (FINALLY)! When we then make smart moves for Granderson and Vasquez because other teams need to cut their costs, that is bad but not horrible. Signing the biggest free agent this year? That would be really bad.

    Gardner might be the token average or worse player that the Yankees have to play everyday to show that “money can’t buy everything” and that “even the Yankees operate on a budget”.

    What the Yankees do shapes what MLB does to create competitive balance over the next 5 years. Holliday is not a player you risk that over

  24. Bo says:

    I wouldnt call it stealth. It’s just that the two teams didnt use their writers to spin the story to their fans. They didnt float names to see how it would go down. They didn’t try to scare competing teams by leaking names saying they could beat a deal like what happened every day in the Santana trade. The only way beat writers or national writers hear these things is the teams want them to hear it.

  25. A.D. says:

    Its funny that something as simple as being quiet about moves, something that is regular/expected practice in most industries, banking, private equity, consulting is against the norm in sports.

  26. Ross says:

    Seems to be the same with the Red Sox. That Lackey move was STEALTH.

  27. Mo says:

    Holliday will be a better player over the next 5-6 years. Speed players don’t age well. Forget Crawford. I think Cash will do Holliday at 5 for 16. Otherwise, in my opinion, it’s Derosa, Damon, Cust, in that order.

  28. gfd says:

    Damon won’t be back. The organization said they were concerned with the pay cut,that it could Affect his attitude and yield poor play. DAMON HAS SHOWN MONEY IS MORE IMPORTANT!!

    Damon will regret this decision when he gets his money while playing on a nothing team,where he’s rich, miserable, and forgotten !!

  29. Noah James says:

    Miley really got her singing talent from Billy Ray Cyrus, no doubt about it.`-~

Leave a Reply

You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong> in your comment.

If this is your first time commenting on River Ave. Blues, please review the RAB Commenter Guidelines. Login for commenting features. Register for RAB.