Dec
16

Open Thread: Baseball’s nastiest pitches

By

We all talk about how a guy has nasty stuff, whether it’s a lively 98 mph heater or knee-buckling curve or a changeup that seems to stand still in midair. As filthy as some of these pitches look on TV or in person, we now have the tools to evaluatem in a more scientific way. Using the magic of PitchFX, Tom Haberstroch (ESPN Insider only, sorry) determined what the nastiest (and meatballiest) pitches in baseball were over the last few seasons. Of the three best, two come from Yankee hurlers…

Mariano Rivera, cutter
This isn’t a lifetime achievement award; Rivera’s cutter is about as consistently good and destructive as any pitch anyone has seen. Somehow, the pitch has showed zero signs of age. The 92-to-94 mph cutter still treats lefties’ bats like dry twigs with right-to-left movement suitable for a slider and velocity more appropriate for a fastball. It’s not “see ball, hit ball” as much as it is “see ball, pretend ball exists four inches away, swing at air, hopefully hit ball.” Simply put, the human brain cannot react quickly enough to adjust for the lateral movement. The pitch’s most dominant stretch of the Pitch f/x era came in July of this past season, when Rivera threw the patented cutter 141 times and didn’t give up a single hit, with only two balls leaving the infield.

CC Sabathia, slider, 2008
Sabathia’s slider was an absolute beast in 2008 but of a slightly different breed than Randy Johnson’s because it relied heavily on horizontal movement instead of overpowering speed. In 2008, his slider gave lefties fits by bending an average of about six inches toward the outer half of the plate at 80 to 82 mph.

How nasty was it?

During a stretch of eight starts in June and July, not a single lefty mustered a hit off Sabathia’s slider despite swinging at it 61 times.

Sure, CC wasn’t in pinstripes in 2008, but I’m counting it anyway. The other pitch to crack the top three was the 2009 version of Tim Lincecum’s changeup. The worst pitches came from a variety of junkballers; Jeff Suppan, Livan Hernandez, and the like.

Elsewhere on the four-letter, Jerry Crasnick wrote a puff piece declaring Mariano Rivera the most valuable pitcher of the decade while simultaneously declaring Sidney Ponson the the worst.  I know Mo’s great, but come on, dude’s just a reliever. Why not vote a reliever the worst pitcher of a decade? Because they aren’t that important, and Sir Sidney hurt his team more as a starter. Why doesn’t that apply for the best pitcher as well?

Anyway, you guys know what’s up. The Nets are taking on Utah, while the Rangers and Islander kick off a home-and-home. Here’s your open thread. Treat it like you’d want it to treat you.

Categories : Open Thread
  • Salty Buggah

    Chris Henry might have passed away. Conflicting reports though.

    • Salty Buggah
      • http://dinosaursneverexisted.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/melky.jpg Drew

        I wouldn’t believe that site bro.

        • Salty Buggah

          True but some reporters from Cincy have also said so on Twitter (yea, yea, I know thats not reliable either)

          • Salty Buggah

            And now they have deleted those tweets. So yea, let’s just wait and pray for him regardless.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          There’s nothing wrong with the HuffPost. They win numerous journalistic awards annually.

          If you click the link, the first thing you’ll see is this:

          UPDATE: Football Outsiders says the Fraley account is fake.

          • http://dinosaursneverexisted.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/melky.jpg Drew

            Oh man, some people have serious issues.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

              Agreed.

          • Salty Buggah

            Damn, I didn’t see that.

    • Keanu Reeves

      ESPN.com is reporting, “Life-threatening injuries”.

      http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/.....id=4749165

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Cincinnati Bengals receiver Chris Henry suffered serious injuries after falling out of the back of a pickup truck during a domestic dispute with his fiance, police said Wednesday.

        Dubya.
        Tee.
        Eff.

        • Keanu Reeves

          Yeah, pretty nuts.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            Police say Henry jumped into the bed of the pickup truck as his unidentified fiance was driving away from a home just before noon.

            “The domestic situation continued between the operator and Mr. Henry,” the police said in a statement. “At some point while she was driving, Mr. Henry came out of the back of the vehicle.”

            Jumping into the back of a pickup truck as your angry fiance tries to drive away from you: Not a good idea.

            • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

              Working in Cincinnati: Also not a good idea.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

                I wouldn’t call what Chris Henry was doing “work”.

                • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

                  Heh. He avoided being shot in Cin Sity. Having been to Cincinnati, I can say that takes work.

            • Evil Empire

              I’m sorry, I can’t help but think that he’s watched too many action movies or something. Its kind of a ridiculous way to get severely hurt or mortally wounded.

            • Keanu Reeves

              Jumping in the back of a moving pickup truck anytime: Not the greatest idea.

            • Yanks 4 Life

              I am sure he was going to say “I forgot to say I love you” if he held on the back of the truck.

            • Salty Buggah

              TMZ: “Just hours before the fateful crash, Chris Henry’s fiancee Loleini Tonga was bragging about how excited she was about her upcoming wedding to the NFL star.

              Tonga had gone to her MySpace page, writing about how she just “put deposIt down 4 weDDing piCs… Paid 4 ouR riNgs.”

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

                Tonga had gone to her MySpace page, writing about how she just “put deposIt down 4 weDDing piCs… Paid 4 ouR riNgs.”

                (fights urge to say something old-man-crotechyesque about how young people are shitting all over the English language)

      • Salty Buggah

        Well, ESPN doesn’t report stuff until it’s confirmed usually.

    • http://dinosaursneverexisted.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/melky.jpg Drew

      oh man

  • http://dinosaursneverexisted.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/melky.jpg Drew

    What’s with this new Rating System?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph Pawlikowski

      Just something we’re trying.

  • Hey ZZ

    Have to sign one guy to a 2 year deal: Damon or Nick Johnson?

    • Keanu Reeves

      Damon.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph Pawlikowski

      Damon and it didn’t take me a second to decide.

    • Evil Empire

      Damon. Not that hard of a decision for me, actually.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Fourthed.

        • http://dinosaursneverexisted.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/melky.jpg Drew

          WHat if one is at 26 million and one is at 14 million?

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            Same answer.

  • Salty Buggah

    “see ball, pretend ball exists four inches away, swing at air, hopefully hit ball.”

    Hilarious

    • thurdonpaul

      i agree, i almost pissed in my pants at that

  • Salty Buggah

    rated 5.0 by 5 people? Awesome

    • Alex S

      i can’t see the rating thing….

      • Salty Buggah

        It’s gone now

  • Salty Buggah

    Yanks discussing one year deal with Nick Johnson.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....noGKoP9EEL

    (Man, I keep citing (usually) untrustworthy sources today.)

    • Evil Empire

      Oh man. I hope this happens. Fuckin’ A!

    • DP

      At least there’s a quote from his agent, better than 95% of the rumors

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      One year deal: Daddy likes.

    • Hey ZZ

      Better question now is probably NJ for 1 or Damon for 2?

      • Salty Buggah

        NJ

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          Seconded.

          One year deals >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two year deals

          • Hey ZZ

            Gonna have to stop asking questions for the night. Way too easy answers.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

              Question: If you were a hot dog, would you eat yourself? I know I would.

              Sincerely,
              Harry Caray

              • Evil Empire

                Norm: Uhh…sure?

                Harry Caray: Well that’s good, Norm. If you’d have said no, I’d have killed ‘ya!

                • T-Dubs

                  Starring Colin Quinn as Norm

                • Evil Empire

                  Stupid interchangeable SNL anchors!

                  You know who I blame for my memory lapse?

                  You guessed it, Frank Stallone.

    • Marcus

      “Another scout compared Johnson to Damon.

      “He will hit like Damon, .280 to .300 with some power and will drive in runs,” the scout said.”

      True scout, doesn’t like to use advanced metrics like this newfangled “OPS”.

  • http://baseballalamode.blogspot.com Neon Noodle

    This is a repeat from the last thread, but fits in nicely here and I want to preface it this time:

    Preface: I do not believe Rivera warrants a CY Young nor an “Arbitrary 10 Year Period MVPitcher award”. I’m honestly interested in knowing who people would pick.

    Begin reprint:
    Ok, here’s a semi-hypothetical situation.

    You are tied up and held at gun point in the 3rd row behind home plate.

    The guy holding the gun let’s you chose one pitcher to throw to one batter. If the batter reaches first base safely, he shoots you. (New for this post!) The pitcher knows what’s happening and does not want you to die.

    Who do you choose? (choices can be current or historical)

    What would you call the award given to the pitcher who you choose, ya know, assuming he saves your life.

    I would call it the “Mo Save Me Award”

    • Evil Empire

      Can I pick Bob Gibson circa 1968?

      • Marcus

        I’ve been in this comments section before…

    • http://dinosaursneverexisted.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/melky.jpg Drew

      Swisher.

    • JGS

      Pedro Martinez, 2000

      217 innings, 128 hits

      • Jose

        Agreed. He had the lowest WHIP ever for a single season that year: 0.7373

    • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

      Carl Everett throwing a pterodactyl.

      • http://baseballalamode.blogspot.com Neon Noodle

        Winner! And thank you for including both the player’s name and the name of the award. Done, and done.

        • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

          Forgot the name of the award. My bad. Going Rogue: The Sarah Palin Award for Bravery Against All Reason, Science.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      Melvin Croussett.

    • thurdonpaul

      Ron Guidry from 1978

    • Jeremy

      Graeme Lloyd

    • Salty Buggah

      Cody Berroa

    • http://baseballalamode.blogspot.com Neon Noodle

      Thanks for the responses. Although this did start out by me to see who people thought would be the best pitcher for one batter under the most extreme circumstances, I realize now it was sort of lame.

      Thanks for the serious response which were great, and the non-serious responses which were, admittedly, better.

      • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

        This is why we can’t have nice things, RAB.

    • vin

      Since the goal is to not have the batter reach base (and since the obp stat for pitchers only goes back to 2000 on b-r):

      Pedro, 2000 – .214 OBP
      followed by
      Johnson, 2004 – .241

      That’s a pretty sizable lead. Pedro was unreal. His HOF acceptance speak is going to be fantastic.

      http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/Msc9z

    • dalelama

      Goose Gossage

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

    According to MLBTR, Carlos Delgado was supposed to be playing in the Puerto Rican winter league beginning in “mid-December” to demonstrate his health to scouts.

    I can’t find info. Is he there yet? Any stats? Any scouting reviews?

    • Salty Buggah

      Anonymous scout: “Delgado looks ready to mash. Maybe better than ever before. I’ve never seem him in such shape before.”

      A rival Executive: “The Mets better resign him or else they will be sorry. Whichever team signs him will get a huge bargain”

      /Stark’d
      /Anonymous scout was…ME

      • DP

        Carlos Delgado, 1999, once hit a pop up 172 feet high, which has happened, try, um, would you believe me if I said… never?

        • Keanu Reeves

          That is indeed a fun fact.

  • Keanu Reeves

    You know what’s really incredible?

    The fact that Ichiro has over 2,000 hits in 9 seasons. He is absolutely unreal.

  • http://dinosaursneverexisted.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/melky.jpg Drew

    Okay. So we sign Johnson and say Adios to JD. Is Johnson our 2 hitter? I think I say yes.

    • Evil Empire

      I say HELL FUCKING yes.

      • DP

        Hah. Why haven’t we done this already?

        • Evil Empire

          PATIENCE FTW!!!

          Nick Johnson for 1 year > Damon for 2 years.

          • http://dinosaursneverexisted.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/melky.jpg Drew

            Johnson for 1 yr + JD for two years >>>Everyone else

            • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

              I like that if they can do it.

              • DP

                Indeed. And if we sign Johnson (or any DH) we should just lower our offer on Damon and be like “if you can find something better, good luck”

                • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

                  I’d just like to point out that I’m confident in two things:

                  1) No one, and I want to emphasize NO ONE, will give Damon three years.

                  2) It won’t be over $13 mil. per season.

                  When it really comes down to it, we’re willing to do 2 and we may be able to overpay a bit to have some flexibility. If that means we can do Damon and one year of Johnson, that’s fantastic. But it’ll be costly, payroll may actually be a hard number, and we still need depth for the rotation. I don’t think they’d get both.

                • Hey ZZ

                  Johnson may potentially sign for a lower base with high incentives which I do not think Hal counts to the cap like last year with Andy

                • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

                  If that’s the case, great, do it. I’m just not sold on that being what goes down.

            • Evil Empire

              Johnson for 1 yr + Ben Sheets for 1 + mutual option > more better than everyone else

    • DP

      Leadoff?

    • Keanu Reeves

      It makes sense, but he’s really, really slow. Maybe that doesn’t really matter, but I’d personally like a guy who’s a bit quicker.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        I agree, but–

        Counterargument: With Tex/ARod/Posada behind him, he’s not going to have many natural stolen-base opportunities anyway.

        • Keanu Reeves

          True.

          But I don’t think it’s important for a base stealer to be there. Damon only had 12 steals last year, so that’s not my main concern.

          Bottom line: I’m not opposed to the idea, but in a perfect world, my number two hitter is faster.

      • Hey ZZ

        He does not have to be quick. Every time he is up he is either walking to first or jogging into 2nd with a double

      • pat

        .426 OBP In front of Tex and Arod.

        Ill sacrifice some speed for that.

    • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

      Nick Johnson sounds good, but Mark Derosa may be a better overall fit, since (unlike Nick) he can play multiple defensive positions. That means giving A-Rod, Jeter, Tex or Swish ABs at DH or getting the day off completely. Derosa has played every position but CF in recent years. Not as good a bat, but a zillion times more flexible.

      http://www.fangraphs.com/stats.....tion=2B/3B

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Having the better bat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having the zillions of times of additional flexibility

        • For Lack of a More Creative Name… Alex

          Plus, DeRosa is probably going to be way overvalued by some teams, and will require a few years.

          • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

            If he gets more years, it’s because teams think he’s more valuable and therefore worth it.

            • For Lack of a More Creative Name… Alex

              He could be more valuable to another team that he is to the Yankees, I phrased that horribly. He would be more valuable to a team that has a hole or two at positions such as 2B or 3B, not at DH.

              • For Lack of a More Creative Name… Alex

                ugh “than” not “that”

            • Hey ZZ

              Tell that to Barry Zito or Vernon Wells or the other million guys in baseball who have contracts that are not worth their value

        • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

          So when A-Rod gets hurt for the season and you’re playing Ramiro Pena at 3B, you’d still rather have Nick Johnson at DH?

          • For Lack of a More Creative Name… Alex

            In that situation, DeRosa would step in at third, but then who would become DH? There would still be an inferior hitter in the lineup. The question is; Is Johnson+Pena worse than DeRosa+whoever else would get the spot formerly occupied by Derosa?

            • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

              Not necessarily, you’d mix and match and presumably have a decent bench to work with. You may have a Jamie Hoffman on the bench who crushes lefties and someone else who hits righties. Stuff like that.

          • http://dinosaursneverexisted.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/melky.jpg Drew

            Come on man you can’t look at it like that.

            • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

              Seriously? What team is ever injury free? That’s a utility mans job, to step in when injuries happen and give guys a day off here and there. If you think a team should be top heavy with stars and no bench, ask Omar Minaya about constructing a roster like that.

              (I considered saying ‘give guys a blow here and there’ but that would have sounded bad)

              • http://dinosaursneverexisted.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/melky.jpg Drew

                Right, utility man. J-Hairesque.

                Derosa isn’t a “utility man,” he’s looking for well over 20 mil.

                • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

                  He earned 5.5 last year. Everyone’s agent is asking for the moon right now. Nick Johnson earned a similar amount. 5.5 for a somewhat lesser bat with great defensive flexibility is something I’d prefer over 5.5 for 1B-only Nick Johnson.

                  Also, Derosa plays. Nick Johnson doesn’t. Your WAR is zero when you’re on the DL.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                  How quickly we forget which player just had wrist surgery.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

                  “Power-sapping” wrist surgery, no less.

                • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

                  Are we comparing injury history now?

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

                  No, just chronological proximity to that injury history.

                  It’s like the Sheets/Bedard debate. Sheets has a bigger injury history, but Bedard was actually hurt more recently, and his injury stands to effect him more for 2010.

                  Nick Johnson is a walking infirmary, but Mark DeRosa’s exploded wrist sheath probably limits him more in 2010 than all that old stuff that happened to Nick.

                  Moreover, Nick’s a MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better hitter than DeRosa, so he has a higher natural talent level to fall from. There’s that, too. A fully healthy Mark DeRosa probably isn’t worth much more than an injured Nick Johnson.

                  A banged up Mark DeRosa, though, is utterly worthless.

                • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

                  *Affect him more for 2010,

                  Signed,

                  Chris Henry’s fiance

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                Of course, but you don’t sign utility guys to deals to contracts like DeRosa gets. Plus, that dude is so fucking over-rated. He’s a nice player, but he’s not who everyone seems to think he is.

                • Evil Empire

                  HE’S NOT WHO WE THOUGHT HE WAS!

                  /Bizarro Dennis Green’d

          • Hey ZZ

            If Arod gets hurt for the season the Yankees would have some serious issues that neither Mark DeRosa nor Nick Johnson are going to make up for

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

              That.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        Or you could just get the overall player, sit the other guys once every three weeks like normal, and be a better team.

        This whole rotating DH thing has reached absurd heights. A-Rod, Jeter, Tex, all world class athletes who have been playing baseball every day of their lives for the last 25 years or so. They don’t each need half a day off a week.

        • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

          Derek Jeter-36
          Alex Rodriguez-35
          Jorge Posada-38
          (if back)Johnny Damon-36

          That’s 4 of your starting 9 age 35 or older next season.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            Agreed.

            If one of them gets hurt, I want Nick Johnson’s vastly superior bat playing at DH to lessen the blow. Mark DeRosa’s vastly inferior bat won’t be able to lessen the blow of jack shit if one of our aging stars gets hurt.

  • Manimal

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4747694

    bahahahahahhahaha, somehow when i pressed on the link I anticipated that he would be the worst pitcher of the 2000′s

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      Ponson was far from the worst pitcher to don a big league uniform in the 2000s. Jose Lima, a 21-game winner with Houston in 1999, posted a 43-62 record with a 6.00 ERA for the Astros and four other clubs this decade.

      However, Lima has one huge redeeming value… maybe two reedeeming values:

      http://calgaryisawesome.com/wp.....eturns.jpg (safe)

      • Evil Empire

        Yeah, he sure does know how to speak to a crowd.

      • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

        I didn’t click the link but knowing you, it’s a picture of his wife and her amazing chest.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          I’m a simple man, really.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            Angle #2: http://www.umpbump.com/press/w....._lima2.jpg

            (I like to be thorough. When it comes to juggs.)

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

              Photoshopped version (but still unaltered):

              http://wit.co.kr/upload/blog-1206251473.jpg

              • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

                Sweet Jesus. And I’m not even all that into tits (more into a juicy ass).

            • thurdonpaul

              wow, she should have to have a license for them

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

                I assume the doctor who gave them to her had a license, if that counts.

                • thurdonpaul

                  lmao, i guess that counts :)

      • Januz

        ESPN has no credibility with their baseball coverage. When you rank Jim Edmonds as the 12th best player this decade over Manny Ramirez, then you have to have your head examined (This is from a Manny Hater). Cameron, Giambi and Drew over Mauer is even nuttier.
        Their basic premise that this is the greatest generation is also way out of line. If you look at the 60′s you find these names: Mays, Aaron, Mantle, Frank Robinson, Yaz, Gibson, Koufax, Brooks Robinson, Rose, Clemente, Banks, McCovey and Reggie Jackson. All of these guys played at least 5 years during that era. A number of those guys are on most people’s list of the top 10 to ever play the game. Aaron and Mays are there and you can argue Mantle as well. Give me a break.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          Edmonds hit .280-389-.548 with Gold Glove defense in center this decade.

          • Januz

            No one denies Edmonds was a great defensive outfielder. But guys fine example is rating Tim Hudson over Mike Mussina. ESPN themselves noted that Hudson has not won 16 games since leaving Oakland. Barry Zito over Andy that is another brilliant selection, Andy won all 3 clinching games in the post season in 2009, while Zito has the worst contract this side of Vernon Wells. ps: How does Jarrod Washburn end up on anyone’s list? He won 18 games once, and has a LOSING record for the decade.

            • Esteban

              First of all, it wasn’t ‘ESPN’, it was Rob Neyer who listed his rankings. You’re free to disagree, but please don’t use pitcher wins and losses to argue.

  • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

    Hey Mike, where would you put Aroldis Chapman on our prospect ranking if he’s signs with us?

    My guess is #2, but I wanted your take.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Yep, #2.

      I’ve started putting together my top 30 for the spring, and I ran through with a preliminary ranking before. It’s ugly, real ugly.

      • Evil Empire

        If there was a 40 man roster ranking, where would you put Curtis Granderson?

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          Oh I have no idea. Probably like, 10-15 range.

          • Evil Empire

            Okay, easier follow up: A-Rod is #1 for sure. Who is #2? Tex? CC?

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

              Brett Gardner.

            • pat

              Prob CC. Id take a durable ace pitcher over a stud 1b.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

              A-Rod, CC, Tex … who knows after that.

              • Salty Buggah

                Jeter?

                • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

                  1) A-Rod
                  2) CC
                  3) Tex
                  4) Jeter
                  5) Posada
                  6) AJ
                  7) Pettitte
                  8) Cano
                  9) Mo
                  10) Granderson
                  11) Joba
                  12) Granderson
                  13) Hughes
                  15) Robertson
                  16) Melky
                  17) Marte

                  18-39) Whatever
                  40) Brett Gardner

                  I fucking hate Brett Gardner

                • Evil Empire

                  Cool-guy-smiley-emoticon has always been my favorite number.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

                  Cano: too lazy to even be #8. Just sits there with his sunglasses on, like a typical shiftless Dominican.

              • vin

                I know…

                Melvin.

            • vin

              Because I’m bored at work – 40 man roster ranking. My projections for overall impact on next year. Based off espn.com’s yankees roster.

              overall ranking in ()

              Pitchers:
              1 CC (2)
              2 AJ (7)
              3 Pettitte (8)
              4 Joba (10)
              5 Hughes (11)
              6 Mo (13)
              7 Aceves (14)
              8 Gaudin (15)
              9 Robertson (16)
              10 Melancon (18)
              11 Marte (20)
              12 Nova (21)
              13 Dunn (26)
              14 Sanchez (27)
              15 Albaladejo (29)
              16 Towers (30)
              17 Edwar (31)
              18 WDLR (32)
              19 Garcia (34)
              20 Brackman (35)

              Position Players
              1 Alex (1)
              2 Jeter (3)
              3 Tex (4)
              4 Posada (5)
              5 Cano (6)
              6 Granderson (9)
              7 Swisher (12)
              8 Melky (17)
              9 Hoffmann (19)
              10 Pena (22)
              11 Cervelli (23)
              12 Gardner (24)
              13 Miranda (25)
              14 Russo (28)
              15 Nunez (33)
              16 Corona (36)

              • JGS

                Towers signed with the Dodgers

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

                Brackman #35???

                That guy is a bustorama. He shouldnt be on anyones 40 man roster.

                Whats next, Mike Cameron being one of your top 40 players???? Not even Eric with his crazy left-wing views would say something that dumb.

                /SalBoGrantLanny’d

    • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

      I asked this during a livechat and the answer was #2, behind Montero. And that’s when we had AJAX.

      • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

        Damn refresh. Axisa wins (which he would have, anyway).

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

    I eagerly await the thread entitled:

    “Open Thread: Baseball’s nastiest bitches
    By Mike Axisa”

    • pat
      • http://baseballalamode.blogspot.com Neon Noodle

        Yeah, I clicked on it.. So what.

    • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

      That would be the greatest thread ever. I wouldn’t go to work that day. I’d upload all the sex pics I have with those weathered, tattooed 50-y/o whores, fat emo girls, actual prostitutes, that one I didn’t know was a tranny (I should have figured when her back was that large), the run-of-the-mill drunk girls, that one with Psoriasis, and the one who is now a lesbian.

      Do it, Axisa!

    • Salty Buggah

      Heh. I actually thought it would say

      “Open Thread: Baseball’s nastiest pussies
      By Mike Axisa”

      Too dirty?

    • http://baseballalamode.blogspot.com Neon Noodle

      http://espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos

      Man, I feel dirty after what I had to go through to get that link.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        It’s true, Pedroia has been baseball’s nastiest bitch for three straight years now.

        His BitchFx velocity rankings are off the charts.

  • Salty Buggah

    @rebecca_glass & @mikeaxisa are one of the Yankees Twitter Personalities for SportSpyder.com but Ben and Joe aren’t. Odd (though there aren’t many they chose for the Yanks anyway)

  • Tank the Frank

    Seriously, how many dance/singing competitions can be on television at one time?

    It actually starts to make me angry when I think about it…then I smoke a joint and get reeeeaaally into one of those shows. Those are intense competitions when you’re high.

    • http://dinosaursneverexisted.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/melky.jpg Drew

      Ha when I used to blaze I’d say F that S and flick on the PS3.

    • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

      Haven’t smoked weed in quite a while, but it did make a lot of bad shows tolerable.

  • Raymond

    The author of this post is on the fast track to membership in the BBWAA, possibly a regular spot on ESPN, and definitely appointment to one of Bud Selig’s Hall of Fame committees. They’ll all love his statement that Rivera is ‘just a reliever.’ Those words on a big site like this help cement players’ images forever. This of course ridiculously mischaracterizes the long career of the greatest relief pitcher in history. Many have stated this who have been around a lot longer than this terribly hip site has. Others have said he’s the best player–pitcher and player–of his era. But there’s no money in making that kind of statement.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Oh yeah, right. I was just about to go to sleep on my mattress stuffed with hundred dollar bills.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      FACT: Everybody does NOT love Raymond. FACT.

      • Marcus

        LMAO.

        BTW, Is that Raymond Lombardi?

    • steve (different one)

      Those words on a big site like this help cement players’ images forever.

      huh? i think Mo’s image is pretty safe.

  • Keanu Reeves

    My final project for my media class is due tomorrow morning. I’m designing a website on dreamweaver about Jackie Robinson and his impact on baseball as well as sports/society in general.

    If anyone knows of any interesting Robinson links I’d love to see them. I’m trying to put the final touches on tonight and so I’m looking for some cool/informative stuff to add.

  • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....zalez.html

    I have a feeling the Sox are going to have a MONSTER off season. They’ve already added Lackey and Cameron, and I think both moves set the stage for future trades. The minute I saw the Lowell deal, I thought they were making roster space for a big 1B trade for either Adrian Gonzalez or Miguel Cabrera. If they can land Gonzalez, his contract is so cheap that I’ll bet they’re a dark horse candidate for Matt Holliday as well.

    Imagine the 2010 Sox adding Cammy, Adrian Gonzalez and Matt Holliday with a rotation of Beckett-Lester-Lackey-Matsuzaka-Wakefield. That’s fucking scary, and they would leapfrog the Yanks if Theo pulls it off. Cash needs another pitcher (Sheets/Wang) and a real LF (Damon) to stay ahead, and even then it might not be enough.

    • Teix is the Man

      They don’t need to stay ahead, they just won the World Series!

      • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

        Right, and very little of this has happened yet. But I see them setting the stage to attempt to make these things happen, that’s all.

        • Teix is the Man

          And if they do that, then good for them. However, the Yankees should not worry about what Boston is going to do, cause they can still kick Boston’s ass.

          • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

            Of course not.

    • pat

      Yeah, then next offseason Beckett is going to demand to be paid more than Lackey, Wake will be 46, Cammy will be 38 and they won’t have dick on the farm for another 2 years.

      • pat

        Excuse me, Wake will be 44.

        • pat

          AND For the record Agonz vs LHP .244/.316/.428

        • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

          Whatevs, your point about the farm being their Achilles heel is a really good one. Health would be the #1 concern on that team with Beckett/Lackey/Dice-K and Wakefield.

      • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

        True, but who gives a fuck who your 5th starter is. If Wake’s back goes out they just pick someone off the scrap heap. With that lineup, they’ll win half the games.

        BTW-I think Cammy will be good in that park. Dead pull Righty fly ball hitter. Watch his SLG go up 30 points next year.

        • Alex S

          “BTW-I think Cammy will be good in that park. Dead pull Righty fly ball hitter. Watch his SLG go up 30 points next year.”

          i’m pretty sure i remember someone saying those exact words before

          • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

            Yeah, that was me the minute they signed Cammy.

            I’m like a Top-40 radio station. I keep playing the hits until everyone’s sick of hearing them.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

              I keep playing the hits until everyone’s sick of hearing them.

              Similarly, Cameron will keep ripping doubles off the Green Monster until everyone is sick of them.

        • pat

          Yeah his SLG could go up but then again dude hasn’t seen AL pitching in 7 years, he’s comin to the big boy league now.

          • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

            He’ll be fine.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      They’ve already added Lackey and Cameron, and I think both moves set the stage for future trades.

      Hey, Nostra, remember earlier in the thread when you said that the fact that Mark DeRosa would get a longer contract for more money than Nick Johnson was because teams think he’s more valuable and thus, more worth it?

      Mike Cameron got a contract that will probably be half as long and a fourth as large as the one Jason Bay will get.

      You and I both agree that the Sox made a smart move picking Cameron over Bay. I’d surmise we’d agree that the Mets are making a dumb move picking Bay over numerous other options, including Cameron.

      That’s why your above statement is wrong. Someone will give Mark DeRosa a bigger contract than Nick Johnson not because he’s more valuable and thus, worth it, but because they think he’s more valuable… but they’re WRONG in that estimation.

      The Red Sox: Smart
      The Mets: Dumb

      Giving Johnson a smallish, one year deal: Smart
      Giving DeRosa a larger, multi-year deal: Dumb

    • Tank the Frank

      I could realistically see them getting AGon but not Holliday and certainly not both. Matt Holliday would put them way over their budget. They have money…but they’re not the Yankees. Their payroll is already approaching an all-time high and is closing in on the $170 mil mark where they’ll have to pay luxury tax.

      Plus, a trade for AGon would take Buchholz, Ellsbury + at least one, probably two top prospects. Losing Buchholz would make it even more important that they re-sign Beckett (or another FA pitcher), using up even more payroll. Add to the fact thet they’ll also need to shore up SS and CF (two very important positions) in the next two years with something more long-term…and more talented. We all know Theo covets a certain star SS. Not to mention whether or not VMart can catch full time…they need to either extend him or look for yet another FA at catcher after 2010.

      I think if they get Agon they are at pretty even footing with the Yankees. But even that’s a long ways away.

      • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

        Ive heard the same thing but do you have an up to date payroll on them? Fangraphs has them at 123.5 (Yanks at 171.9) The Yankee number sounds right to me, but maybe the Sox number hasn’t been updated yet.

        http://www.fangraphs.com/teams.....38;month=0

        In any case, they’re 46.5 mil below 170 number, and even if that doesn’t include Lackey+Cammy the number still goes up by around 25 mil. Still 21.5 to play with, and A-Gon only makes 4.75. Plus you have to subtract the salaries of the players going to San Diego. Still 17-18 mil of room for Holliday.

        • Tank the Frank

          http://www.weei.com/sports/bos.....yroll-2010

          This puts them at $168… of course we can only venture a guess as to arbitration raises.

          • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

            You mean $68 million, right? I mean, they are a mid-market team and all. Their owner said so!

          • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

            Any idea why they add 12 mil for ‘Benefits’ and ’40 man’?

            • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

              40 man is for the other guys populating the 40-man but not on the 25 (guys like Brackman, Reggie Corona, etc.).

              Benefits must be the guarantees in player’s contracts, incentives and conditions of the deals?? Maybe it’s insurance payments, too? Benefits was $10 million, 40 man less than $2 mil.

    • Hughesus Cristo

      Even if you weren’t completely off the rails with your paranoia, the description of re-signing Wang as “adding a pitcher” is ridiculous.

  • Jake H

    From Frankie in his chat today.

    Comment From JustinJustin: ]
    What’s your take on Romine? I heard some negatives on his defense but BA has him 2nd for NYY. What’s your MLB projection for him?

    Wednesday December 16, 2009 3:10 Justin
    3:11 Frankie Piliere: I think he has the raw tools to be a better than average defender. Young catchers have more growing pains than any other position. Not only are they developing but they are helping develop young pitchers, so it’s not an easy balancing act. I think people mistakenly evaluate them against veteran filler catchers in the minors. Romine does make some mistakes that I saw but the raw skills are there. Polish will come

  • Accent Shallow

    One of the previous posts of the site had brought up Posada as a Hall of Famer. I was skeptical, due to his low counting stats, but Posada doesn’t compare that unfavorably to the other Hall of Famers. A few more seasons, and he’ll pass 1000 RBIs and 1000 runs. He’s not going to get to 2000 hits, but he may get to 300 bombs if he hangs on long enough.

    Check:

    http://www.baseball-reference......jo01.shtml

    http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofstca.shtml

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      Posada = HOFer.

      /beaten that drum a lot.

      • Accent Shallow

        Well, he’s likely there based on rate stats. This shows his counting stats aren’t as short as I’d thought.

        Unfortunately, he takes a big hit on defense compared to all these guys.

  • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

    The pitch’s most dominant stretch of the Pitch f/x era came in July of this past season, when Rivera threw the patented cutter 141 times and didn’t give up a single hit, with only two balls leaving the infield.

    Holy Shit.

  • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....zalez.html

    Damn! 12-16 mil for the lefty butt-shaker? Amazing.

    • Salty Buggah

      Wow. If the Orioles’prospects can play well next year, they might compete a bit. It wont be enough probably but damn, they’ve made some decent moves this winter. This is overpaying (and kinda stupid) for sure but hey, it improves the team.

      • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

        Terrible use of payroll. Their player development system looks pretty good but then they trip over themselves with dumb, expensive reliever signings. Figures.

        Shiiiiiiieeeeeeet.

        /Clay Davis’d

      • Januz

        There is no question they are overpaying. The problem is no one wants to go to Baltimore unless they overpay, so they have to do just that, or forget about anyone halfway decent signing there.
        I will say, the Birds are finally starting to turn things around, I could see them escaping the cellar (Ahead of Toronto).

  • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist
    • steve (different one)

      do i need picture in picture to watch it?

  • ultimate913

    ESPN reports that the Yankees are talking to Nick Johnson for a 1 year deal but neither RAB or MLBTR has reported it yet. What’s up with that?

    • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

      ESPN has such luminaries as Jemele Hill, John Kruck, and Skip Bayless. Just sayin’. But seriously, I can’t find the ESPN link, but some commenters on here have touched on it.

      Not sure if there’s any merit to the story.

      • steve (different one)

        there’s a link upthread with a quote from his agent.

        doesn’t mean it will get done, but it has merit.

        • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

          http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....noGKoP9EEL

          It’s the NY Post. Yeah…um…not sure that qualifies as a reputable source. Anyway, if it’s verified as a story, sure. Until then, I don’t put any stock in it.

          • steve (different one)

            yes, i agree that the Post isn’t a great source, but there is a direct quote from his agent.

            i’d say there is “merit” to the story that the Yankees are talking to NJ b/c his agent is confirming it.

            • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

              Well, of course they’ve talked. They’ve talked to Bay, Lackey and all kinds of other guys. To me, it doesn’t mean too much.

              It’s the Post that say a deal is in the works for a 1-year, incentive-heavy deal. They mention nothing of a source. They just say it.

              Until I see something other then “we had some tea this morning with Cashman,” I don’t bite. That’s all.

      • Evil Empire

        I hate Jemele Hill.