What does Nick Johnson mean for the left field situation?
ByThree Yankees who made significant contributions to the 2009 championship filed for free agency this winter: Johnny Damon, Hideki Matsui, and Andy Pettitte. By December 18, they’ve essentially replaced all three. Andy Pettitte re-signed last week to fill his own spot. The Yankees traded for Curtis Granderson to replace Damon, and the soon-to-be-announced signing of Nick Johnson fills Matsui’s vacated DH spot. The replacements are not exact facsimiles of their 2009 counterparts, but then again, no one is.
One question many of us had upon hearing of the Yanks interest in Johnson: what does it mean for left field? Melky Cabrera isn’t the worst choice. He was, after all, the starting center fielder on the 2009 team. The problems arise when Jorge Posada needs a day off. That means both Melky and Francisco Cervelli in the lineup. In a normal backup catcher situation that’s not a huge deal, but because we can’t expect Posada to catch more than 120 games (and even that’s very optimistic), it means a lot of both in the lineup.
Had the Yankees re-signed Damon, they could have mitigated the situation for some games. Instead of resting Posada a full day, sometimes he could have played DH, with Damon playing left field. Say Posada catches 110 games this season. Under the current system, the Yankees will have both Melky and Cervelli in the lineup for 52 games, or 32 percent of the season. But, if Posada can DH for 30 more games, for a total of 140, then the Yankees would only have both Melky and Cervelli in the lineup for 22 games. That sounds a lot better.
With Johnson in the fold, that’s not possible. It has made me, and many others, wonder if the Yankees now plan to sign or trade for a full-time left fielder. Though the chances appear remote, the Yankees could still sign Damon, though they’d have to play him in left basically every day. Do they still see him as a full-time left fielder? If not, it creates a logjam at DH, though those usually find a way to become unjammed. In fact, Damon might be the only possibility for another offensive addition. The left field trade market appears bleak, and there aren’t many, if any, free agent outfielders who interest the Yanks.
To not sign another left fielder, however, leaves the Yankees vulnerable. Nick Johnson comes with a long medical history, and is no guarantee to stay healthy the entire season. If something happens to him in 2010, the Yanks would be in a very tough spot. Without any further additions, they’d probably move Nick Swisher to DH and have an outfield of Cabrera, Granderson, and Brett Gardner. Defensively that’s stellar, but offensively it would be among the lightest hitting trios in the league. Further, imagine the lineup when Jorge needs a full day off. It’s not a scenario anyone wants to see.
Many Yanks fans, myself included, dream of Matt Holliday in this scenario. From a pure performance perspective, he represents an ideal fit. Not only does he play left field full time, but he provides a middle of the order bat. Just imagine the Yankees batting order:
1. Derek Jeter
2. Nick Johnson
3. Mark Teixeira
4. Alex Rodriguez
5. Matt Holliday
6. Jorge Posada
7. Curtis Granderson
8. Nick Swisher
9. Robinson Cano
The scenario, as of right now, remains unlikely. Without contracts for any of the arbitration-eligible and reserve clause players, the team payroll stands at about $188 million. Add in another $6 to $7 million for Melky, Chad Gaudin, and Sergio Mitre, plus the money to fill out the rest of the roster, and the number gets very close to $200 million. Will the Yankees go far above that for a left fielder? It doesn’t sound like it.
Holliday will not come cheap. As he does for all of his clients, Scott Boras seeks the most possible money for Holliday. The Cardinals reportedly have on the table a five-year offer for about $15 million per year. Even if the Yankees matched that and Holliday preferred New York, that would boost payroll to over $210 million, and close to $215 million. Imagine, then, if they wanted to add another starter. They could easily start the season with a payroll over $220 million. From everything the Yankees have said this off-season, that’s not part of the plan.
As we’ve mentioned many times before, adding Holliday doesn’t just affect this year’s payroll, but the payroll for the next five years. The Yankees might not want to add that kind of commitment when they already have $140 million committed to the 2011 team, and that’s before re-signing Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera. Cashman has also called next year’s free agency class “incredibly more impressive than this one,” so the Yanks might choose to wait this one out, add one more pitcher and call it an off-season. They can then make a move on perhaps a better free agent next off-season.
There’s a chance, as always, that the Yankees see the sense in adding Holliday at this point and decide to increase payroll for him. At yesterday’s Granderson press conference, Hal Steinbrenner seemed open to the idea, but reluctant. “I’m not saying yay (sic) or nay, but I’m saying we’re operating at this number and that’s that.” The chance is open, but given the immense commitment it would require, I doubt the Yankees move in that direction.
If they’re done shopping for an outfielder, the 2010 Yankees enter the season with a big risk. If healthy Nick Johnson is a great addition, but any injury would leave the Yankees offense in a tough spot. Even if they add another good starting pitcher, that’s a rough bottom of the order. I’d like to see them add a higher caliber left fielder, but given the roster and payroll constraints, I don’t expect it.
301 Comments»
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The Mason Williams Watch
Well, I don’t want Holliday (from a long-term payroll perspective), but I do wish they’d DFA Mitre. Dont see why you would keep a player like him for anything other than the league minimum.
That said, signing Sheets at 10M per would put the payroll # over 200M. Can’t see us going much higher than that.
Because Mitre provides depth and he has a good chance to improve from 2009 since he’s still in the process of fully reovering from his TJ surgery.
Dont see why you would keep a player like him for anything other than the league minimum.
because the guy still hasn’t fully recovered form tommy john and if you cut him loose someone will give him the same or more than what you are because he showed he can get hitters out and win games in the al east last year, meaning especially in the nl someone would give him guaranteed money. He is a lightning in a bottle type guy and at the exercised option of what, 1.5 mil or something? yes. sp depth is not always cheap and 1.5 mil is cheap for someone who could come back and pitch like they did before his tommy john and as he did against the white sox. for that price it is worth it to balance that against him possibly pitching like he did against the blue jays (the time he got hammered, not the time the defense made like 4 errors even though he kept getting grounders)
I’m glad that he can get guys out, but he’s nothing special. And guys that are nothing special shouldn’t be getting arby raises if you’re running up against your budget ceiling. They should be cut loose.
for depth he is better than nova/mccalister and even hirsh because mitre has proven he can fill innings and get hitters out at the ml level as a starter. who else do they have who can do that?
Dude, have you ever even looked at Mitre’s numbers? He’s not a lightning in a bottle type pitcher. He’s not an innings eater. He’s not a guy that strikes a lot of batters out. He gives a lot of hits. He walks a lot of guys. Mitre fucking sucks. And if we’re going to pinch pennies at the end of our budget here, then let a dude making league minimum do the job.
look at the guy;’s numbers the yr he went down with tommy john. they are very good. he has not yet fully recovered. if he recovers fully and becomes that guy again he is worth triple to 6 times mroe than 1.5 mil. 1.5 mil is worth that gamble for depth.
OK. I will do that.
http://www.baseball-reference......se01.shtml
149 IP. ERA+ of 93. 1.48 WHIP. K/9 of 4.8. BB/9 of 2.5. 4.65 ERA.
If that’s very good, then you can consider Kei Igawa to be Miles Davis, or something.
5th starter numbers. those guys get paid upwards of 10 mill. a gamble on a potential 5th starter for depth (who in reality is 6th, 7th, 8th in the depth chart) for <$2 mil is well worth it
Name the 5th starters in the majors that make more than $10 million. I’ll wait.
ok, so that was wrong, then comparable guys like a john garland, doug davis, guiys who should be 5th starters or who are terrible with whips over 1.4 and barely better era+ get much much more than mitre. and are great depthits about depth. no one wants john garland in the yankees rotation, but if the yankees could ge tjohhn garland for 2 mill and keep him in aaa as ther 7th 8th 9th starter than no one is complaining
Just because the market will overpay for guys like Davis and Garland (who, btw, have better peripherals and track records than Mitre), doesn’t mean that NYY should. And just because there’s some dipshit GM in the NL that would guarantee Mitre 1.5M (which I can’t see happening anyway), doesn’t mean that we should do the same. If we’re pinching pennies, then Serge needs to get squeezed.
But, overpaying Mitre by giving him 2M is better than overpaying Davis or Garland by giving them 8M, isn’t it?
the artist formerly known as (sic) –
I totally hear you… Mitre’s pretty bad… But, in the end, we’re talking about, what, $1.5M? They may, in fact, be overpaying Mitre for what he gives them… We’ll see… But, even if they are, they’re still paying him peanuts by Yankees standards. $1.5M for Mitre isn’t stopping the Yankees from making any move they want to make, so why not take the chance that he can give you some decent innings if/when called upon?
Yep. Doing neither>either of those options.
Doing neither>either of those options.
Is it, though? We need pitching depth. That’s clear. In order to get it, we’re probably going to have to overpay a free agent to come here, since our rotation is already full.
Mitre is a guy we can FORCE to come here, since we have his arb rights. And overpaying him is far less costly than overpaying someone else.
in re: Honorable Congressman and Torquemada
Yeah, I mean, I’ve probably overplayed my hand a bit. 1M (the cost of Mitre-replacement level player) isn’t enough to prevent us from signing Sheets. I just wanted to emphasize, more than anything, how much Mitre truly sucks.
http://www.baseball-reference......g_gamelogs
We don’t know when exactly he realized he had elbow issues but look at those numbers. Obviously he fell off for a few starts before he was shutdown. He was on his way to a great year then tweaked his arm and his performance and his numbers suffered.
The dude can throw a 90-93mph sinker. That’s sick.
So we’re back on this, eh?
Two points: (1) You don’t know when he hurt his elbow. (2) A half of a season of “sick” performance does not a good pitcher make.
Two points: (1) I agree, I don’t know when exactly he hurt his elbow. (2) I said he was on his way to a great season until he tweaked his arm. I didn’t say his performance was “sick,” I said his pitch is “sick.” Not too many people throw 92 with sink. Not to mention he’s got a pretty sharp slider.
Id rather see Nova or McAllister than Mitre. Depth is nice when its decent. When the guy is terrible? Mitre is terrible.
your opinion has no merit to me
Why? It seems like a reasonable point. As was pointed out above, Mitre had an ERA+ of 93 in his best season, albeit right before he went under the knife. I don’t really understand why the Yankees want to keep him around, especially for several times league minimum.
If you’re going to make a comment like that, think twice about it and make no comment at all. That’s retarded.
no sir it is not, and the word retarded is retarded.
So replace retarded with ignorant. Bo made a valid point (though I don’t necessarily agree with it) and to dismiss it with the comment the way you did is ignorant.
Mondesi –
You were correct to chastise jsb for his comment. It was wrongheaded and added nothing to the conversation.
I hope you do the same to Bo when he makes wrongheaded comments that add nothing to the conversation, like when he blatantly misrepresents a persons position to start a false argument with them about a different topic.
Like, say, what he did to jsb here:
http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ent-724147
after having been here long enough and seen the things bo/sal/lanny/grant posts even if it is valid it has no merit with me.
Is Sergio Mitre worth this number of comments, however you feel about him?
All of you need to stop using the word “retarded” anyway.
This will be my last comment in this convo, I’m not going to draw this out when it’s unrelated to the comment-thread.
I don’t usually bother responding to Bo’s wrongheaded comments because they’re consistently wrongheaded and I don’t see the point of responding to them. Sometimes I do, usually I don’t.
But there’s a big difference between (1) Bo responding to jsb’s comment and mischaracterizing jsb’s argument and (2) jsb responding to a Bo comment by just saying “your opinion has no merit to me.” (1) is at least a response that’s relevant to the conversation, while (2) is solely an insult that has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation. I think (1) is stupid and annoying and lamentable, while I don’t think (2) has any business being posted to these threads.
the artist formerly known as (sic) –
You’re right, I regret using that word. My bad.
That’s fair.
(1) is not related to the conversation, though. It’s an intentional warping/bastardization of the conversation. It’s a red herring, either out of intentional malice or ignorant stupidity. And it’s shit like that that gets him on everyone’s nerves and leads to something like jsb saying “your opinion is worthless to me”.
Just my two cents.
I have no issues with wanting Mitre back. My problem is with declining the option and going to arbitration. I believe his option was for about the same price as he made last season. His arbitration argument will be something like “They gave me that salary for a season I was going to miss half of, and that I wouldn’t be fully healthy for the part that I did pitch. I’ll be healthy and ready for a full season next year, so I deserve more money.” I’d expect a significant salary increase in arbitration, which makes him much less attractive.
That’s assuming he wins in arbitration. Those cases tend to be more based around performance and not what-ifs, pro-rated money, etc.
Yeah, except no one has ever earned less money than before in arbitration.
Yes they have. Here’s one example.
DAMN IT!
ok, fine.
its exceedingly rare.
That’s assuming he wins in arbitration. Those cases tend to be more based around performance and not what-ifs, pro-rated money, etc.
Arbitration cases are based on comparing your demands to recent salaries, and justifying your demands based on that. Performance only comes into play as a way to justify your comparisons.
Arbitration arguments basically go “Player X made $Y when he had Z years of service time. I also have Z years of service time, and my stats are better than X’s, so I should earn more than $Y.” Both sides are free to throw in things like injury concerns or whatever dirt they have into their argument.
i am totally fine starting the season with Melky in left.
if it doesn’t work out its not that hard to trade for a left fielder mid season. how often is the april starting lineup the same as the september starting lineup anyway? give melky a shot and spend the damon/matsui savings on a middle to back of the rotation starter. and please no Holliday, enough of these long term deals.
1.) Stop talking about Mitre. I don’t care for him much, but he’s depth we can hide away.
2.) How come no one is talking about using Nady for next year. I’m not sure how his elbow is, but if he can play the outfield why not use Xman? He’s a beast when healthy.
3.) Nice to see Nick Johnson back… a little sad to see Damon and Matsui gone though.
4.) Granderson is going to be a monster in our line-up!
5.) Melky and Gardner are NOT starters. Great bench players, but not everyday left fielders.
Joe, you talk about how weak the lineup would be when posada sits, but wouldn’t
1. Derek Jeter
2. Nick Johnson
3. Mark Teixeira
4. Alex Rodriguez
5. Curtis Granderson
6. Nick Swisher
7. Robinson Cano
8. Melky Cabrera
9. Francisco Cervelli
still be better than almost every other team in the league?
and the same if johnson gets hurt:
1. Derek Jeter
2. Curtis Granderson
3. Mark Teixeira
4. Alex Rodriguez
5. Jorge Posada (C/DH)
6. Nick Swisher
7. Robinson Cano
8. Melky Cabrera
9. Francisco Cervelli
My concern with the latter lineup is spelled out in the post. You’d have to replace Posada plenty of times with Gardner. Jorge can DH sometimes, but he’ll need a full day off plenty of times.
of course. lineup does get weakly. but i contend it’s still good enough to win with. does put more pressure on the pitching side of things, though
Any lineup with melky and cervelli in it is weak.
But then again any backup catcher isnt going to hit.
comes down to melky really. maybe he takes that leap this yr. They obv have faith in him if they are going to pass on damon and the rest.
Joseph,
I think the Yankees feel Miranda can hit ML pitching, particularly, right-handed pitching.
And play what position?
I have the sneaking suspicion that Granderson may find himself in the 2 hole, even if NJ OBP plays better there.
Sheesh, I hope not.
If Grandy in the 2 hole can get his obp back to .360, he might be more valuable there with NJ protecting A-Rod than having Grandy not get as many pitches in the bottom of the order.
Tough call, if NJ gets on base 40% of the time for Teix\A-Rod, that could be a lot of runs or alot of DP’s.
he might be more valuable there with NJ protecting A-Rod than having Grandy not get as many pitches in the bottom of the order.
Well, there’s no such thing as protection, statistically speaking. That said, I’d much rather have the sure-thing OBP machine getting on base in front of Tex and ARod rather than in front of Swisher and Robinson “RISP” Cano.
I get it, the question I’ve been wondering about though since we got Grandy is would it make a difference to his obp if he hit with those two behomths him at 3-4.
That and of course he’s a plus runner and can actually bunt* (almost as good as Brett Gardner according to TIm McCarver).
* – not that you want him bunting all that much…just saying he’s a athletic, fast dude.
He’ll have plenty of opportunities to bunt for a base hit and then steal second base batting in the #6 hole, after the bases have been cleared by an ARod or Posada homer.
By “not that you want him bunting all that much,” you mean close to never, right? The situations where bunting actually improves your offensive output are very limited, and certainly not remotely significant enough to base your batting order on.
just saying he’s a athletic, fast dude.
I didnt know Granderson was black…
and last year when the jeter/damon lineup switch was proposed here we all swore up and down “too bad thatll never happen cause it akes too much sense”
i have faith in girardi to do what makes the most sense and not subscribe to the joe torre “players have roles and stay in them even if they are horrible at them or ill suited for them” philosophy
In Torre’s defense, he became much too busy with endorsements, celebrity events and authorship to be bothered with all that baseball stuff…
and sleeping
i lol’d
You laugh, but the man looked spring time fresh in all those post game interviews.
Granderson should not hit 2. Let him hit lower and drive in runs and get acclimated to NY first.
Nady – 1yr, 4mm with incentives gets the job done in LF. He is a righty, plays both corners, and you could give his wing a break by putting Melky in later in games or DHing Nady on occasion (or when Granderson needs a breather against LH by starting Melky in CF).
I dont think either him or Johnson solves the protection-angle for Arod ( and I’m afraid Posada may be in that spot…) but I think Nady is an inexpensive option with good upside at a reasonable price.
4 mm guaranteed is way to much for someone coming back from an injury with a 30% success rate.
but i agree a righty bat for depth who cna play lf and provide avg or above avg offense is solid, but that’s if he is healthy, a very very very big if at this point
say hello to jamie hoffmann
true. forgot about him. unproven but potential yes. not bad
hoffman in lf?
i think they look at him like a 25th man on the roster. not a guy capable of starting 130x
not suggesting he play out there regularly. but it was suggested we needed a righty bad for depth who can play LF. he certainly can fill that role
try reading next time buddy. this is what he was responding to
but i agree a righty bat for depth who cna play lf and provide avg or above avg offense is solid, but that’s if he is healthy, a very very very big if at this point
a righty bat. check. for depth. check. play lf? check. avg offense? pending. fits 3 of 4 for now and is healthy? better option than nady cause of the lower risk, lower salary, younger age, and possible upside for improvement
How do you come up with a 30% success rate? He’s not a pitcher.
It means Ken Rosenthal can overreact saying how the Yankees need Damon and if they need to can trade Nick Swisher because 2009 is his best year ever and will never repeat it again.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....ees-121709
But honestly I still want Damon back. If he really loves the Yankees as he says he does then he should consider taking a paycut. But this is Boras so he is likely gone.
Holliday in a different year would be a great choice but I can’t see the Yankees spending that sort of money again when they are near the 200 million mark.
Ideally Damon is our left fielder but most likely it’s Melky/Gardner.
“The Yankees need to realize that they are not some mid-market club, but a big-money behemoth that can pay a little more or a lot more, depending upon their mood. ”
Bitch and moan when they overpay, bitch and moan when they dont overpay. Life must be good to be in the MSM.
Wow Ken Rosenthal, terrible article.
The Yankees need to realize that they are not some mid-market club, but a big-money behemoth that can pay a little more or a lot more, depending upon their mood.
Terrible reasoning, absolutely terrible.
Johnson’s career OPS, when adjusted for his park and league, actually is higher than Matsui’s, and Granderson’s actually is higher than Damon’s. But c’mon, which players would you rather see in October?
The ones that give you the best chance to win, which would presumably be the better players.
/Rosenfail
Mr. Rosenthal, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Scott Boras and Johnny Damon talked with the Yankees yesterday and would have considered a two-year deal. The sides weren’t close, so it now appears that Damon’s tenure with the Bombers is over.
Interesting to note. Damon now pretty much has the Giants & Mariners (Assuming Bay & Holliday go to the Mets & Cards), with neither team seemingly very motivated to sign him unless its for the right price
what no melky to the cubs rumors now that bradley is gone?
I thought the Cardinals made a 8/$128 offer to Holliday? Has that story been debunked?
Bay is out of the question, right?
yeah, no confirmation from anyone that the 8 yrs was legit.
and bay, and his lack of defense, is out of the question
I loved how now its been spun that Bay is a butcher in LF and the worst OF of all time.
Teams will put out everything in order to keep the prices down.
http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ent-724215
bo, statistics
statistics, bo.
glad i could introduce the two of you
Yep, NJ is as brittle as they come, but you’ve got to figure a bat would be available by the AS break.
NJ seems anathema to getting younger and more athletic, but I guess the obp, YS III and his impressive stats against LHP made it worth the risk for Cash – no real arguement – he could be great.
I think its 50/50 on a new LFer – I don’t think Cash wants Holliday or Bay since both are defensively challenged and will probably be overpaid.
I guess there is a chance that Bay falls into the Yanks lap – i.e. I’ll take a 4 year deal at 15 per so I don’t go “where careers go to die a slow, painful death” (the new slogan for Citi Field).
I bet Cash is trying to trade for a younger, athletic lfer, don’t know who realistically that could be.
Again, my guess 50/50 on Melk as the LFer next year – wouldn’t mind seeing one more year of him to see if he can improve his .752 obp and sustain or improve his RHH – .763 obp.
Yep, NJ is as brittle as they come
hopefully dh ing will help. he doesnt have to play the field and barring a baserunning injury should be good ::fingers crossed::
NJ seems anathema to getting younger and more athletic, but I guess the obp, YS III and his impressive stats against LHP made it worth the risk for Cash – no real arguement – he could be great.
it is one year so it doesn’t really go against it. just saying
I think its 50/50 on a new LFer – I don’t think Cash wants Holliday or Bay since both are defensively challenged and will probably be overpaid.
i thought holliday was good defensively?
I guess there is a chance that Bay falls into the Yanks lap – i.e. I’ll take a 4 year deal at 15 per so I don’t go “where careers go to die a slow, painful death” (the new slogan for Citi Field).
if i were cashman i still say no to bay even under these circumstances
Again, my guess 50/50 on Melk as the LFer next year – wouldn’t mind seeing one more year of him to see if he can improve his .752 obp and sustain or improve his RHH – .763 obp.
agreed. hopefully he can all of a sudden become awesome
Agreed with everything except Bay. If in some alternate universe Bay would accept 4/$60, I think the Yankees would take it. A combination of Jeter, Johnson, Teixeira, ARod, Bay and Posada would be even more unreal than the lineups we’re accustomed to. Bay’s defense sucks but so did Damon’s in 2009.
Problem is I don’t think Bay is accepting anything as reasonable as 4/$60 considering his age and production.
I also think Bay wants as much as he can get, but if it comes down to the Mets and no one else at 65 ish, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Cash swoop in.
Big RH bat, would continue to make the Yanks tough on those lefties.
didn’t bay mash the first half or so and have an almost ortizian second half (ortizian as in his first half of awfulness). again could be wrong, just going from memory
Actually, he had a peak, a valley, and then another peak.
Great in April and May, sucky in June and July, great in August and September.
In an unrelated story, though, Bay does have a career OF UZR of -51.2.
wow -51.2? that is epically bad wow.
You might even go so far as to say he’s a butcher in LF and the worst OF of all time.
(hint hint)
Not sure if you are being serious or not, using UZR instead of UZR/150, but if so, he’s not even close to being the worst.
I am being serious using UZR and not UZR 150. I’m talking about how bad he’s been over his career. That’s UZR.
(I wasn’t being serious about him being the worst ever, though. But he IS a butcher.)
I get the DH\better health thing, but I remembering him getting hit on the hand\wrist a couple of times and that knocking him out for significant time.
He’s been on the dl with so many things, torn tendon sheath in his wrist, hammy, back, heel – he’s a gamble just driving to the park but I guess all the other guys available were too for similar and other reasons.
I don’t think Melk will all of a sudden break out, but even a slight improvement gets him closer to a .800 ops – if he does that (and I’m not saying he can) and plays a good LF, its pretty good, at the least you have a 4th ofer who does everything, at worst, close to league average.
If Melky posts a .752 OBP, I don’t think anyone will replace him in LF. He’d also become the most valuable player of all time.
I think now that Holliday’s price has come down, he does make a little more sense BUT, it’s probably best if they don’t go after him. If they don’t sign him, they can use that money elsewhere–a depth starter, another reliever (Kelvim, plz!), etc.–and it would free-up payroll if they needed to make an acquisition at the deadline.
I read somewhere that the Yankees calculate their payroll on an average. So could the current payroll number actually be lower than 188mil?
I say Sign Holliday and trade gardner or Melky with a cprospect or two for a starting pitcher.
If not how about Derosa for left?
If you’re gonna have a league average bat in LF, you might as well pay less for it. I’d rather roll with Melky in LF than sign DeRosa.
If we do end up settling for Melky, Swisher would be playing LF and Melky would be in RF with his arm
They still have Hoffmann for LF, he might prove to be useful and if they get another OF’er they may as well send him back to LA now, because he would otherwise just be a waste of a roster spot.
Also, if Nick gets hurt it the yanks can give Miranda a shot.
Also, if Nick gets hurt it the yanks can give Miranda a shot
this is not something i hope happens
I think they’re waiting on Crawford next year as the next big money position player.
If I had to choose between Holliday this year or Crawford next year, I’d take Holliday. I really think he’ll age better than C.C. Granted, I won’t be disappointed if they get Crawford, but I don’t think it’s going to be the slam-dunk we want it to be.
think i’d take crawford. stellar defense (yes, it probably will decline) and he’s proven he can play at an elite level in the AL and in the AL East in particular
But he’s also shown just average on base skills and average power. As he ages, his batting average will likely decline, as will his speed. I really think Holliday will age much better than Carl Crawford.
outside of a blip last year, his OBP has been steadily increasing. yes, he’ll hit a decline phase at some point like all players do. and that’s why i wouldn’t offer him any more than a 4-5 year contract (ages 30-34 max)
Holliday is the much better player especially on a long term deal. What happens when Crawford doesnt run as well as he does right now? Which kinda happens to players after they hit 30.
Holliday is the much better bet if they were looking at it like that.
Agreed
Definitely agree.
“… he’s proven he can play at an elite level in the AL and in the AL East in particular”
While everyone likes to kill Holliday for his time in Oakland in 2009, during that time he had an OPS+ of 120. That’s higher than any single year of Carl Crawford’s career, he’s never had an OPS+ higher than 117.
Holliday’s time in Oakland is a SSS, but if we’re going to look at it and draw any conclusions (just for fun), the conclusion to be drawn is that he actually can hit AL pitching, and he can hit it well. He had a bad April in Oakland, then he started to mash, and by the time he was traded his numbers had already trended back up to very respectable territory.
I can still see Damon coming back for 2 years. he has to realize his options are very limited, especially if he wants to play for a winner. I don’t see Holliday coming to the Yanks under any circumstances unless his price drops significantly- Yanks, I believe, are preparing for an all out blitz next off season for Crawford and Mauer, and maybe even Lee. If Damon doesn’t return, I can see them maybe targeting someone like Reed Johnson to platoon with Melky in LF: he can also play multiple positions and DH, and would be alot cheaper than DeRosa.
I can see this too. Damon at an Abreu-like contract makes so much sense for both Damon and the Yankees that I still think it could happen. If another team had offered him 3/$39 or similar by now, I think we would know about it.
Holliday would be great. But I think they want to keep LF free for next yr for Jeter to move there.
i hope Damon comes to senses and realizes the yanks are the best fit for him. also all this talk about him not being able to play LF fulltime is a little bit premature, last year was his first bad defensive year and everybody is ready to crucify him…remember he was playing in a new stadium and i remember quite a few LFs from visiting teams having adventures out there.. granted hes not going to be what he once was but hes probably still more than adequate.
he’s still a serviceable LF. it’s his contract demands that got us where we are today
Cant blame the guy for asking for what he wants.
It just comes down to what he is willing to give up in order to play here. Not like the Yankees are offering a major paycut here. 2 yrs 20 is not an insult. but who can blame a guy for trying to get every last dollar in probably the last big contract he’ll get?
of course not. you got to shoot for the moon when you’re talking contract, esp. one that’s likely to be your last
Looks like the Mariners are out of the Damon hunt… reports that they are trading for Bradley. So it seems like the Giants are the only team currently linked to Damon. Can’t see them bidding against themselves, so maybe there is still a shot at the Yankees getting Damon on a very team-friendly contract.
How about Melky and Miranda to the Braves For Nate McLouth….He is due 12.25 million over the next 2 years with a option for a 3rd year…the Braves want to save some money and they need some at 1B…Melky is under control for the next year 3 years…..McLouth could bat 9th play all 3 OF position and even steal 20 or so bases….just putting it out there
/Francesa’d
But seriously, I think they’d want more than Melky and Miranda for Nate.
trade JOBBER for mclouth and put him in CF. He’s a great ballplayaaa!
I don’t know….The braves are always looking to save money…If you look at both Melky and and McLouth pretty much had a similar year….they only difference is McLouth is owned money and Melky is a year to year situation. With McLouth’s speed and his ability to pull the ball he could be a 20-20 players
I was calling for Mclouth last year! I love the way he plays!
I would love Mclouth but he was just traded to them last year. Why would they dump him after a half season? I agree though they should trade Miranda. He is a waste on the Yanks roster. So is Melky and Gardner if anothe LF is brought in. What about Edwar and Albeldejo (spelling?) are they worth anything?
He’s not a waste on the roster. He’s 2010′s Eric Hinske.
why would they trade derek lowe a yr after signing him? why would they trade javy vasquez a yr after trading for him?
cause it is about the money
Speaking of Lowe/Vazquez, ESPN Insider Rumors page mentioned that the Angels want Vazquez but may have to settle for Lowe because Javy put a no-trade clause in his deal to be able to block any trade to a West coast team.
He apparently wants to stay on the East coast to be closer to his family in Puerto Rico. They claim he won’t consider waiving it to go to the Angels.
So, they may be forced to take the inferior Lowe. Interesting.
I know it’s been said here before, but the Angels could easily be looking at a 3rd place finish next year.
Doesnt having the greatest manager ever and bunting guarantee you atleast 90 wins?
Don’t forget about teh impeccable defense!
and going 1st-to-3rd and the abreu
If you were a Braves fan would you want trade Nate McLouth for Melky/Miranda?
If you answer no, then you shouldnt have posted this. If you answer yes, then I feel bad for you.
if i was a braves fan and needed someone at 1b and a younger OFer, I would consider it….We all knock Melky but i bet there are many teams that would love to have him…. Look we traded Jackson, Kennedy and Coke for Granderson….If you said that was going to be the trade a mouth ago people on here would have laugh….Jackson even a high prospect has not had one MLB at bat…At least Melky can say that
“if i was a braves fan and needed someone at 1b and a younger OFer, I would consider it”
Come on man, you’re not going to convince anyone that’s your honest opinion.
if i was a braves fan and needed someone at 1b and a younger OFer, I would consider it….
The Braves don’t need someone at 1B or a younger outfielder. They actually have both of those in spades at the minor league level, including the high minors. Their two best prospects are Jason Heyward, a young outfielder, and Freddie Freeman, a young first baseman.
:: facepalm ::
melky/miranda = the new melky/ipk
Somewhere, Eric Wordekemper sheds a single tear…
Braves wouldn’t do that at all. None of their position players are on the block. Its expensive starting pitchers that the Braves want to unload.
think for a second. if ur the braves would u hang up the phone in 2 seconds or 3?
theres a reason miranda is still in the minors. and melky wont be so cheap eventually.
Would you deal an every day outfielder with that skill set for Melky and Miranda?
I wouldn’t.
I know this is way out there, but how about trading for Elijah Dukes? I know he’s completely crazy. But his talent is unquestionable. Give him and Melky the opportunity to win the starting LF job in Spring Training. Loser becomes the 4th outfielder.
if melky is doing videos with mary carey in hotel rooms elijah dukes would probably end up with a donkey and cher.
IETCVM.
Why bother there is already Melk, Gardner, and Hoffmann to compete for LF
Talentwise, though:
Dukes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Melky, Gardner, Hoffmann
I doubt we do it, but it is intriguing.
Yeah, but actual production thus far in their careers hasn’t been that great…and then there’s the character issues.
But if you don’t give up much to get him, if he becomes a problem, you cut him. The Yankees have been known for giving guys 2nd or 3rd, or 4th chances (I’m looking at you Steve Howe).
Look, I’m not married to the idea, at all. But I think these are the types of guys the Yankees should look at (not the prayer that Nady recovers or spending a fortune on Johnny Damon’s decline years).
I’m trying to get outside the box. If Dukes can harness his considerable talent (it is a HUGE “if”), the Yankees get a young, cost-controlled stud of a LFer.
I doubt the Yankees take that risk, but that, to me, is the direction they should be looking at. They got enough good players to go to war, so they should be looking at low risk, high upside. Dukes’ risk is that he self-destructs. He isn’t going to drag down a veteran team like the Yankees.
If you want to think outside the box, another LFr who might be available, who also has some baggage but not as bad as Dukes, is Delmon Young.
Dukes’s big talent and big baggage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Delmon Young’s smaller talent and smaller baggage
But still Delmon Young would be in the same category as Dukes. Low risk (because they don’t cost much more than a roster spot, and the Yankees don’t have to put up with any bullshit) and high talent. But if we’re going out on a limb, let’s go all the way out and the get craziest SOB we can find…Dukes.
Fair enough.
Delmon’s still only 23… sure, if he’s cheap, why not.
24, sorry.
You dont add poor character guys to a good clubhouse. Theres a reason guys like dukes, bradley, guillen, etc don’t win.
they’re the yankees. they dont need to bottom feed. dont under value good chemistry.
Chemistry comes when you’re winning games. Those idealized Yankees dynasty teams had some real assholes (Cecil Fielder-gambler, Wade Boggs-complete jerk, Roger Clemens-biggest asshole ever, and the list goes on….).
I don’t give a shit about chemistry, and neither should the Yankees. The chemistry came last year because the best players realized that they had the best team, and so the had fun with that.
Exactly.
There IS a reason guys like Dukes, Bradley, Guillen, etc. don’t win: they’re on bad teams.
Nothing more.
Yup, those guys don’t win for the same exact reason Jerry Hairston Jr., who by all accounts is a solid professional and a good guy, never won much before te 2nd half of 2009: he’s played on shitty teams.
BINGO
There’s another point in Bo’s comment, though, that I think actually makes some sense. It’s this:
“they’re the yankees. they dont need to bottom feed. dont under value good chemistry.”
He’s right. The Yankees don’t need to take the kinds of risks other teams need to take. Let the Reds or the Nats or the Pirates take a chance on a guy with questionable character (like Dukes) or a poor history in the clubhouse (like Bradley), the Yankees don’t need to take those kinds of risks.
And, in addition to that… Even if we don’t think character issues matter, I think the Yankees do. Cashman seemed to like bringing in good character guys in CC, AJ and Swisher last offseason, even going so far as to talk to those guys and encourage them to be themselves and let their personalities shine. I think he cares about character, and I agree with him. When you have the most financial clout in the game, why not get good players who are also good people?
while i dont disagree really i feel you are overstating it. someone with the talent of dukes’s misbehavior coulld be aresult of immaturity and the inability to maturely handle losing and being on shit ass teams.
put him on a winning team and that could all change, especially with people like jeter and rivera.
now bradley, who has been on good to competitive teams, is just fucking nuts and would still manage to erupt somehow. but the jury is still out on dukes.
“while i dont disagree really i feel you are overstating it. someone with the talent of dukes’s misbehavior coulld be aresult of immaturity and the inability to maturely handle losing and being on shit ass teams.”
Disagree. Either we see the following stuff very differently, or you just don’t know about all this stuff. Dukes has issues, and his issues are most certainly not the result of playing for bad baseball teams.
Look at this stuff and then tell me Dukes’ issues are caused by playing for bad baseball teams:
http://deadspin.com/sports/cha.....262845.php
http://deadspin.com/sports/muc.....268359.php
http://deadspin.com/sports/fir.....270437.php
http://deadspin.com/sports/dea.....279189.php
“while i dont disagree really i feel you are overstating it. someone with the talent of dukes’s misbehavior coulld be aresult of immaturity and the inability to maturely handle losing and being on shit ass teams.”
Disagree. Either we see the following stuff very differently, or you just don’t know about all this stuff. Dukes has issues, and his issues are most certainly not the result of playing for bad baseball teams.
Look at this stuff and then tell me Dukes’ issues are caused by playing for bad baseball teams:
http://deadspin.com/sports/cha.....262845.php
http://deadspin.com/sports/muc.....268359.php
(Have to post other links in another comment or else the comment won’t post due to too many links.)
(Here are the other 2 Dukes links.)
http://deadspin.com/sports/fir.....270437.php
http://deadspin.com/sports/dea.....279189.php
Sorry about the duplication of comments, everyone. Clearly I thought my first attempted comment, the one with all 4 links, got eated by the RAB filter (it didn’t show up when I tried to post it), so I went ahead and re-posted.
That’s fair enough. But my opinion is the best chance that Dukes will have to right himself is to be on a good team with strong veterans. The Yankees have that. Adding some like Dukes isn’t as much of a risk for the Yankees, because they don’t have to keep him (unlike the Pirates, Rays, Nats, etc). It is even less so due to them adding so many high character players last year (and now Granderson this year). If this Yankees team still had the likes of Sheff and Randy Johnson, I would be less inclined to make such a crazy suggestion. I still admit it is crazy though.
And who is to say that being in a clubhouse where that shit wouldn’t be tolerated or where there are strong veteran/professional personalities, he won’t turn the other cheek and straighten himself out? People can change/wise up in the proper settings aka winning teams.
The dudes’ played for the shitty Rays and shittier Natinals. Maybe coming to a winning team would do him well.
People who threaten to shoot & kill their wife & HER CHILDREN don’t do so because they play on shitty teams.
They do so because they’re scumbags. Period.
No to Dukes; we’re not talking about minor character issues here: he’s sick!
And yes, character does matter. The Yanks let Abreu go because of his negative influence on both Cano & Melky, and both of those guys played markedly better once Abreu was gone, which indicates that:
1. Character does matter.
2. You can’t expect Jeter & the other character guys on the Yanks to rein in the stupidity & bad behavior of others.
can still see them making a push for dejesus. thing is, he’s not THAT much better than melky and for what the royals would probably ask for, it likely wouldn’t be worth it.
The other thing is he’s not a young guy anymore. He’s going to be 30 years old. Not saying that’s a deal breaker, but it makes me a little less interested.
Agreed. Dejesus is not enough of an upgrade over Melky to trade prospects for him and pay him more than Melky.
Trade Swisher for a pitcher who not coming of a injury and is making less money. Add Holliday with what’s left.
Ask Braves about Javier Vazquez they been after Swisher for years
Vazquez makes more money than Swisher does.
About 4 million more for this one year for that they get a 15 game winner, about 200 IP and a era under 3 who not coming off injury. They also lose the rest of 26 left on swisher’s contract. If Vazquez walks next year he would probably good for at least a type B.
I’m pretty sure Vazquez would block a trade to the Yanks.
Those problems he had here were a long time ago. I would hope he would be pass them and want be on a winner with hopes of a big payoff when he becomes a free agent next year. If he can win 15 on the Braves no telling what he could do on the Yanks.
I still see your point.
And we see yours.
It’s not a bad idea altogether, swapping Swisher for Vazquez and then adding Holliday, but I think standing pat is the slightly better option, IMO.
I don’t know about better, but probably more realistic. If they add a Sheets type I’m happy going to war with what they got.
Also back then he was looked at as a 1 or 2 not a 3 or 4.
crawford is overrated people…wait before you crucify me…he’s a speedster who doesn’t hit homeruns and he’ll be almost 30 when free agent time comes around..rememeber speedsters with little power usually don’t age well. (unless your name is ichiro…)
hes not in the class of a guy like ichiro as a hitter.
speed is the one tool that disappears quick.
No one’s going to crucify you. This idea has been discussed frequently at RAB.
cool handle
No crucifier here. I actually agree with you. I think Crawford is exciting because of his speed but he is generally over-rated.
Cashman has also called next year’s free agency class “incredibly more impressive than this one,”
Really? Outside of the catchers (V-Mart & Mauer) & the starting pitching (Beckett, Lee, Webb, Hudson) there isn’t a whole lot of excitement that’s actually going to be a FA. For OF its Crawford, Dunn, and Werth that don’t have options. Dunn is a DH playing LF and Holliday is far superior to Crawford or Werth.
isnt it more impressive just based on the pitchers there??
i think beckett lee webb are a tad more impressive than lackey marquis and pineiro.
Plus possibly Matt Cain.
He has a 6.5m club option, unless his arm falls off he wont be a FA
/hoping
Not even Barack Obama believes in hope that much.
http://www.instantrimshot.com
I don’t think Damon is off the table. Signing Nick Johnson is a win win for Cashman. He gets a solid DH for a good price and is simultaneously a very good bargaining chip to use against Damon. If Johnny really wants a chance to win a ring or two before he’s completely shit he’ll come back on Cash’s terms.
Damon wants ( i believe ) 2 things – a chance to play alot and make alot.
with NJ here i think he will more likely return, as Damon does not want to be pigeon-holed into a DH spot, because at that he will never be able to reach milestones for HOF consideration ( 3000 hits etc)
However, if he can still play the outfield, he will get more AB’s for the next few years, and this will get him closer to thoise HOF thresholds.
2 yrs 33mm/ + 2mm buyout in 2012
$16.5M per? not a chance
Nah, I was thinking like 2 yrs 18 mil max.
It’s one year for as little as it takes.
What if they signed Hinske for bench depth and DH depth? He can plan the OF in a pinch and also provide a little pop. If anything happened to Johnson, he wouldn’t be the worst option in the league. Not the best, but he’s also pretty cheap.
The problem I see with Hinske is the Yanks would likely need a RH bat, not another LH bat. Thus, their interest in DeRosa(per Olney’s tweet just a few minutes ago).
I’m not sure what is the best option any more for LF. I most definitely do not want Melky starting in LF, or anywhere on this team, for that matter. Shocking, I know.
Yesterday I moved on to having Gardner in CF and Granderson in LF, maximizing their defensive values. The amount of ground covered would be something Yankees fans haven’t seen in a long time.
I figured I wanted this to be a one year option and then move onto the 2011 free agent crop that is supposedly much better. But looking at that class, there’s only 4 options worth giving any semblence of thought to: Crawford, Werth, Manny and DeJesus.
Many of us know the plus and minus factors associated with each, and Crawford is the dream option, but I’m not sure I want to put all my proverbial eggs in the Crawford basket.
Holliday, dare I say is looking better and better. That isn’t to say I want to give him an 8 year deal. If the Cardinals are willing to do that, bon voyage. But for 5 years and the right money, it might be the best option.
I’m still very undecided.
but wouldn’t bringing in another $100M player tie our hands financially to potentially make a move at the all-star break? and also to be major players in next year’s FA pitching market?
It might yes, it’s a solid point.
But making a move at the all-star break takes trading away quality prospects (save for a trade with CHW, KC, etc.) and who knows what the market will look like July 31.
If things go according to plan, you have 4 rotation spots locked up for 2011. Not to say that the plan will follow its intended course, but you can’t write it off. That’s one spot to fill. Not exactly redoing an entire rotation.
Gardner is not a starter- he simply is not a good enough hitter to play FT.
Could you provide some evidence to back your point?
WAR disagrees with you:
Melky 2009 WAR: 1.6
Gardner 2009 WAR: 2.7
http://www.fangraphs.com/stats.....osition=OF
http://www.fangraphs.com/stats.....osition=OF
Even better, Melky’s career WAR vs. Gardner’s, which can be found at the links above.
Then adjust for service time.
That too.
Ok, let me say something I was just thinking…
Yes, next year’s free agent class is indeed far superior than this one. But you know where it is superior? In starting pitching. You know what? It’s not like Justin Upton or Ryan Braun are free agents. Are Carl Crawford or Jayson Werth better than Matt Holliday? Do you think they’re going to sign for that much less than Matt? I mean, don’t get me wrong, I am, too, skeptical about signing him over financial flexibility. And man, wouldn’t he look great in pinstripes? I would be so pumped up if they signed him for anything between 5/80 and 5/90. I guess it is wishful thinking.
Are Carl Crawford or Jayson Werth better than Matt Holliday?
No.
Do you think they’re going to sign for that much less than Matt?
Yes.
you really think crawford’s signing for less than 5/80 next year?
Yes, but moreover, I really think Holliday is eventually signing for MORE than 5/80 this year.
but how many realistic suitors are there for holliday to drive the price up that high
It only takes one with an itch.
If Red Sox trade for Gonzales and Holliday is still on the market the Yanks will go after him as one plausible rationale Yanks can hang their hat on for increasing the budget is that RS have closed the budget gap significantly this off-season (when the Yanks state publically they have a budget it is nothing more than a negotiating ploy; if the Yanks were floundering at mid-season does anyone seriously think they would not add payroll to try and right the ship?) Damon needs to think long and hard about whether Boras’ inherent conflict in trying to place Holliday this off-season has hurt him; the reported Yankee offer (2 for $19M) is the best he’s going to get but Boras needs the Yanks as a landing place for Holliday until Holliday signs somewhere.
If Red Sox trade for Gonzales
I’m not holding my breath. Even as much as ESPN wants it to happen.
I’m convinced there’s no package of RS prospects (that Theo’s willing to package) + Ellsbury that can come anywhere close to equating fair value for A-Gonzalez.
And the ESPN talk that Gonzalez might be more available at the trading deadline is nonsense. Pads may not be competing, but Gonzalez is still making only 6 million in 2011.
This.
Ellsbury will be arbitration eligible in 2 years (while Gonzalez will remain cheap), I doubt San Diego would even want Ellsbury. He’s going to get expensive real quick, and Boras is his agent. And he’s not some young up and comer, he’s 26, A-Gonz is 27.
If Melky is a league average hitter again, I have no problem with him playing LF and hitting 8th or 9th. He’s not an automatic out, and if the concern is that he doesn’t have a corner OF bat, then put him in CF and Grandy in LF if it’s more aesthetically pleasing(not really though). While there may be a slight downgrade in offense, the improved defense should more than make up for it. And you’re replacing an older Matsui/Damon and with younger Grandy/Johnson, while improving defense in both CF and LF.
All of that being said, if Holliday is available at 5/90, 6/105 I’d jump at that.
Putting Melky in CF because his bat is “hideable” there is not logical. The best range guy should play CF and that’s Granderson.
As much as I don’t like Melky Cabrera as a starting option on this team, putting him back in CF is an even worse option.
Not to say you are subscribing to that idea, Steve H, just saying in general.
No, definitely don’t want Melky in CF. I’m just saying that if the Melky’s bat plays in CF (and it does, see #27), an OF of Melky/Grandy/Swisher is just as playable as an OF of Grandy/Melky/Swish. I certainly don’t want Melky in CF, but I’m fine with him in LF, due to the Granderson pickup.
No, definitely don’t want Melky in CF. I’m just saying that if the Melky’s bat plays in CF (and it does, see #27), an OF of Melky/Grandy/Swisher is just as playable as an OF of Grandy/Melky/Swish. I certainly don’t want Melky in CF, but I’m fine with him in LF, due to the Granderson pickup.
I have nothing to add, I just wanted to repeat that louder to make sure everyone heard it.
I’m not sure this can be said loudly enough.
I love the idea of trading for someone crazy and giving them a shot to take the job from Melky, but either way you look at it, the Yanks are stacked. They don’t need Holliday or Bay to get over the top. They are the defending WS CHamps. They replaced Damon with Granderson (upgrade), they replaced Matsui with Johnson (lateral move), and replaced Pettite with himself. I like the team now. We all need to chill the fuck out. Let the Mets spend a fortune for Bay, let the Cards bid against themselves on Holliday, and then kick some ass come April.
Exactly. I don’t see the need for all of this craziness.
We have a solid baseball team based on the foundation of the motherfucking world series champions. We won 103 games despite Chien Ming Wrong making a handful of starters (basically giving away at least 6 games)and Cody god damn Ransom replacing A-Rod for 1/6th of the season.
So far, the team has net upgraded. UPGRADED. We have two young high upside starters, and we need one of them to succeed. If we want to get another SP great, sure, I’m cool with that. But regardless of what else we do, this team is built to win now, just like it always did. I don’t give a fuck about what Boston wants to do, let them go all in for 2010 and force themselves to either spend more than they want to or screw up their long term future. Fuck it. Fuck them. Fuck the negative nancies who probably shit themselves and were ready to jump off a cliff when we lost game 1 of the World Series (amongst many other silly “moments of doubt”). We’ve got this shit.
Fuck it. Fuck them. Fuck the negative nancies who probably shit themselves and were ready to jump off a cliff when we lost game 1 of the World Series (amongst many other silly “moments of doubt”). We’ve got this shit.
I love you man!
WE.
WILL.
NOT.
BE.
STOPPED.
olney tweet from a few minutes ago:
“If Johnson passes physical,NYY will move on to next targets — definitely a starting pitcher, and quite possibly Mark DeRosa, if $ are right”
DeRosa can make starter’s $ elsewhere – why would he want to get back-up money from the Yanks and not be a starter?
maybe he’s finding out he can’t make starter’s $ elsewhere
He’s from NJ and he’ll be on a winning team with a strong chance to win rings.
Getting more money, a longer contract, and a starting role >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being closer to home and having a chance to win rings
I’d be fine with Mark DeRosa if the money was right.
Here’s “the money being right”:
No more than one year, no more than 5M.
agreed. except not sure he’d take only a 1 year deal
Somebody’s gonna offer him a couple years and a starting position. How much better is DeRosa than Melky anyway?
Which is why I’m not holding my breath for DeRosa.
DeRosa’s best defensive position is RF. In 1200 innings there, he’s at a 21.6 UZR/150.
He has a SSS in LF, 412 innings, -1.1 UZR/150. YSIII has a large LF though, and even though some of the ground could be mitigated by Granderson, he probably would end up with an average to below average UZR, not a 20 UZR/150.
His career wRC+ is 102, but his last 3 years have been 108, 128, 101.
You decide.
/NOSPINZONE’D
I’d give him 2/$10, but yeah, absolutely no more.
And that ain’t happening.
Exactly the number I had in my head for price being right.
Now that we have Johnson handy, Mark DeRosa – if the price is right – would make for a good super utility guy.
Would he make for a better overall starting LF than Melky though? Especially post-wrist injury…
Reed Johnson is also a good utility player who likely could be had for less $$ than DeRosa.
True, he’s not bad. He doesn’t play the infield, though, and he’s only a career 95+ hitter.
If he’s an OF only, we probably just stick with Jaime Hoffmann instead.
Agreed. Good off the bench bat vs LHP.
That’s about it.
DeRosa in right, Swisher in left, Granderson in center? Maybe? Not sure, haven’t researched enough.
But sounds decent to me right now.
“DeRosa in
rightleft, Swisher inleftright, Granderson in center? Maybe? Not sure, haven’t researched enough. ”Fixed that for ya.
No, I meant DeRosa in right, Swisher in left.
But after doing further research, Swisher had a -1.7 UZR/150 in 2009. So he probably would be a worse idea in LF than DeRosa.
I know what you meant. I was telling you you were wrong.
Swisher is a good defensive outfielder. There’s no need to move him from RF to LF. If DeRosa joins the team, he and Melky and Gardner and Hoffman all form a rotating door at LF.
Swisher stays where he is. If he ain’t broke, and he ain’t, don’t fix him.
I agree he’s a good defensive OFer.
Just trying to experimentally maximize value, which in this case failed.
Yeah, I see where you’re going with it, but there’s something to be said for not creating supefluous moving parts.
Swisher is a righfielder, and he’s our rightfielder of the present/future. He’s good.
The only way you move him to left is if you import a better, long-term solution who is also a rightfielder and not a leftfielder, someone who plays in right, well, and is clearly better.
That’s Matt Holliday. If we bring in Holliday, he plays right and Swish moves to left.
Everyone else, even short-term options like Mark DeRosa who may have a slight UZR advantage over Swish, they stay in left and Swish stays put.
Familiarity and repetition FTW.
Whoa….Swisher is NOT a good defensive outfielder. He had some good plays in the playoffs, but he was brutal for most of the year in right. Misplaying and misreading balls and ricochets and such. At best he’s average.
FAIL.
Nick Swisher career UZR/150:
RF (2642.2 innings): 6.0
LF (925.2 innings): 5.6
The impartial historical record >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your own personal flawed eyewitness testimony
Nick Swisher is a good defensive outfielder. That’s a fact. He’s not Cameron/Gardner level good, no, but he’s good.
Dead Wrong.
“I guess I was a combination of House of Pain and Bobby Brown/
I was humpin around, and jumpin around/”
Still one of my favorite Biggie lyrics.
My favorite Biggie line is also from that song:
“I’m shootin’ babies no ifs, ands, or maybes”
Fucking classic, twisted shit.
I got seven Mac-11s
About eight .38s
Nine 9s, ten Mac-10s, the shits never ends
You can’t touch my riches
Even if you had MC Hammer and them 357 bitches
Biggie Smalls; the millionare, the mansion, the yacht
The two weed spots, the two hot glocks
That’s how I got the weed spot
I shot dread in the head, took the bread and the lamb spread
Little Gotti got the shotty to your body
So don’t resist, or you might miss Christmas
I tote guns, I make number runs
I give emcees the runs drippin
When I throw my clip in the AK, I spray from far away
Everybody hit the D-E-C-K
My slow flow’s remarkable, peace to Matteo
Now we smoke weed like Tony Montana sniffed the llello
That’s crazy blunts, mad L’s
My voice excels from the avenue to jail cells
Oh my God, I’m droppin shit like a pigeon
I hope you’re listenin, smackin babies at they christening
Sigh. No one flows the way Biggie used to.
Do you think either Cuddyer or Kubel of the Twins would be available in a trade? Seems that Cuddyer (or Swisher) could make the move from RF to LF and his contract is reasonable at $9.4M this year and 10.5M next. You’d think the Twins would be willing to listen in on offers to save that much money that they could then use to try and retain Mauer. Any idea on what sort of package Cuddyer would require?
Do you think either Cuddyer or Kubel of the Twins would be available in a trade?
No.
Not anytime too soon, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they move Cuddy by year end.
He’s due 10.5 if they pick up his 2011 option.
If they really want to make an effort in keeping Mauer, Cuddy might have to go. It’s either he or Kubel and Kubel will only cost 5ish mil in 2011 yet they are very similar players.
The Twins are trying to build a strong team that will make Mauer want to stay. Dealing away Cuddyer or Kubel will not help them achieve that.
Do you guys think that Boras finally fully screwed over a client in Damon? the Whole four years thing seemed to make the yanks look elsewhere. And did you hear the MLBTR story on the top? Damon said that he’s ready to move on but NYY is the best organization he’s ever been a part of.
Take that Boston!
Well Boras screwed Varitek last year, so Damon would be the 2nd client.
Well, Boras gets a bigger commission from Holliday signing with the Yankees than Damon. Doesn’t seem like a wise thing to do, longterm though. As good as Boras is, there are a zillion agents out there.
I’m sad to lose Damon and his wife. I always thought she was the best looking of the Yankee wives.
Then apparently you havent met Mark Derosa’s wife…
http://images.fashionmodeldire.....llsize.jpg
Mark DeRosa’s wife FTW!!
Maybe we need to reconsider this acquisition….
Wow, I retract my statement.
Well she’s no David DeJesus, but she’s still pretty good-looking.
http://www.fantasybaseballdugo.....di-derosa/
It’s a joke you don’t get, sorry. It’s based on another conversation.
I’m not huge on Holliday, hes not coming to the yanks anyway…. don’t need em, would just be another huge contract… Have to get Jete and Mo back next year too….
Ironically, the way the offseason has progressed (The Dodgers going broke, the Mets going broke, the Sox defense-intensive strategy, getting Grandy, losing AJax, getting Nick, Damon pulling a Bobby Abreu 2008) has warmed me on the idea of Holliday.
He may not be as overpriced as I initally feared (he’s still going to be overpriced, but no longer prohibitively so), and the crown jewel of our farm system that I was all in favor of getting stopgaps for (AJax) is now gone.
Sure, I’m on board. Holliday.
We can’t fit him in the budget, though. That’s still the problem.
Budget is an issue. I’m still not sold on tying up another position with another long term contract. Especially for someone who isn’t great!
If Holliday’s not “great”, though, he’s still at least “really, really good”.
He’s a third tier superstar.
Tier 1: guys like A-Rod, Pujols, Mauer, Utley
Tier 2: guys like Teixeira, Youk, Kemp, Zimmerman
Tier 3: guys like Holliday, Cano (yes, Cano), Zobrist
I disagree with your arbitrary rankings. Quite a bit, actually.
That’s cool. They are indeed arbitrary and open for debate.
I’ll second that.
What are your guys’? You all know your shit, I’m very curious.
Honestly, it would take a little more time than I have right now to compile a list like that and it’s always going to be kind of an arbitrary/subjective process… But off the top of my head I think, compared to the players you noted, you’re probably underrating Holliday and overrating guys like Kemp, Cano and… I hate to say it, but Tex. It’s just kind of an arbitrary grouping of random players.
Like I said, this is partly a subjective matter, so I’m sure you could make your case for your rankings.
Did you get that from Buster Olney?
Wait, was it Neyer?
Got it from own brain-hole
Oh, well I think either Neyer or Olney mentioned that this week, that’s all. But I don’t think he(whichever) had the same players in the same levels. But I think he labeled Holliday a 3rd tier star.
He did indeed. He put Holliday in the same class as Carl Crawford I think. I wouldn’t put Crawford in the same echelon as the guy in my rankings though.
I’ll give you that. But I really just don’t trust him to stay at that really, really good level for the life of the contract. I know he’s young, and a great athlete (college football recruited), so those skills should hold up. He’s not as good as was when he was tearing the cover off the ball for the Cardinals(which I feel is what most fans visualize him as), but he’s also not as bad when he was terrible for the As (but that is the image I keep seeing of him).
I really hope we don’t sign Holliday. He’s a really good player but the implications are too great. In 2011, C-Grand, Robbie, Swish and Teix are due an extra 9 million. The we have all our arb raises. Jete and Mo will earn the same salary, give or take a couple mil.
If we want to make a move on a guy like Mauer, I’d rather keep a cheap option in LF for 2010.
I’m not sure that “Let’s not sign Holliday now so we can have money to sign Mauer later” is a good idea, all things considered.
There’s a very, very, very good chance Mauer isn’t there next winter.
I do agree generally. I don’t like the idea of not signing a good player because we may get a good player next year. However, if we don’t sign Mauer and assuming JoPo continues catching then our DH hole is wide open with many options out in the market. Not to mention AP, Cliff Lee and Beckett(no thnx) out there.
Bottom line, if we sign Holliday @ around 15ish mil, I won’t be upset. Like Johnson, Holliday will slide perfectly into our lineup.
The way I see it as of right now, Mauer is a member of one of two teams in 2011: the Twins, or the Red Sox.
Both teams need him more than anyone else, including the Yankees. But ask me again in June and depending on how Montero’s been doing, maybe I’ll be singing a different tune.
Even if Mauer isn’t available, I would love to have as much money as possible to throw at a stud pitcher next year. That being said, I hope we don’t hand out anything but 1 yr deals from here on out.
That’s fair.
There are lots of other non-Mauer options that are intriguing next year.
Yeah… And even if he is, what if the choice is between Holliday in LF and Montero/Posada/Romine/other at catcher or Melky in LF and Mauer at C? This is an oversimplification, but it has to be considered… The Yankees have a ton of prospects at C, but nothing really in the OF until we see what Heathcott/DeLeon become.
I still prefer Mauer, since he’s the best player of the lot and who knows what happens a year or two from now with the guys on the FA and trade markets and the guys in the development system, but these other considerations have to be taken into account.
I agree with you. Holliday is an excellent player, but I would take a pass on him. Find a cheap option in LF, and then possibly make a trade mid season if something opens up. Keep the Holliday money for another player, maybe Mauer, maybe a starter.
I think I may be missing something (OF subs maybe?). But if Granderson will provide roughly equivalent offense to Damon’s, and Johnson will approximate Matsui’s offense, how are the Yankees anything but about the same on offense and a better defensive club versus last year?
Can Johnson approximate Matsui’s production offensively? I’m not sure about that.
I just saw the pic of Matsui in the his Angel’s hat…he looks so depressed.
http://www.reuters.com/article.....sportsNews
He doesn’t have to.
He only has to approximate Damon’s production. We got Granderson to approximate Matsui’s production.
Some thoughts on the above..
We will have A-Rod for the entire year, and A-Rod behind Tex for the entire year.
Joba will be a year older/better.
Hopefully we won’t lose a starter for the season (Wang).
Also, it is doubtful that JD and Mats have as good a ’10 as they did a ’09, but it is very possible, and it has been said before, that ’10 Grandy and ’10 Johnson = ’09 JD and ’09 Mats.
I don’t understand why the Yankees need to get a LFer especially someone like Derosa. Gardner projects as a 2.7 WAR player versus 2.4 for Derosa. Moving Gardner to LF would give his defense a bump and potentially make him even more valuable. The only thing the Yankees need now is another swing man who can potentially make 15-20 starts over the course of the season.
The Yankees cannot bank on Gardner being a 2.7 WAR player until he actually does it. Projections for players with little experience shouldn’t be taken literally.
not to mention that his projection is based on playing CF not if he switched to the less defensively valuable LF.
Idea from “left field” as it were. Teixeira played the outfield in his early career. When Posada needs a half day off, why not Johnson to first and Teixeira to left?
Can Swisher play a decent LF? Perhaps see if Jermaine Dye would take a one year deal, stick him in right and move Swish to left? That’s assuming Dye has anything left, and his second half last year would suggest he’s a corpse at this point. Still, he had a pretty damn good 1st half.
Would any of you want Damon to return for $8-9M for one year over the other alternatives? I’d still rather have him in the two hole and he was certainly clutch last year. Who do you guys see as Damon’s suitors? I’ve read the Giants but we know they are cheap. If the Angels land Lowe or Vasquez and Rivera is part of the price would the Angels look to Damon in left and leadoff now that Figgins has departed? I don’t see them handing Matthews jr. and Willits the job. I had also heard the White Sox but I think Pierre rules out Damon there as well. As he is seen as an awful outfielder and now a DH with fielding ability, I think there is a chance he comes back to the Yanks to play left on a one year deal and wait for a Johnson injury or simply justify the contract by taking some time off on the bench.