With the first pick of the 2009 Rule 5 Draft, the Yankees select…

December 9, 2009 by Mike Axisa 78 Comments

… Zach Kroenke? Kiley McDaniel tweets that the Yanks might opt to take their own lefty relief prospect in tomorrow’s Rule 5 Draft, with the idea of Kroenke replacing the since traded Phil Coke. The Braves took one of their own in 1988, so it’s not unprecedented, however it seems like a waste. Sure, having two competent lefty relievers is nice, but it’s not a necessity. The Yanks can do better.

pat

Oh, f*ck this.
- http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
  
  What the what?
  
  /LizLemon’d
Lanny

Maybe they like Kroenke better than anyone else out there. Not unheard of to like your own better than someone elses dreck.
- Mike bk
  
  yes but then you would think they would have just protected him to begin with. i know we would have had 4 lefty relievers on the 40 man if we did but we had other expendable parts like bruney, edwar that could have been dumped if it was that serious to get a Rule V pick.
  - http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
    
    Exactly.
    
    We traded Bruney for the R5 pick. If we liked Kroenke that much, we would have just DFA’d Bruney and added Kroenke to the 40 man, and then we wouldn’t have to keep him on the active roster all year long.
    - Ted Nelson
      
      Good point
      - Ted Nelson
        
        Maybe they looked at everyone else expecting to find something and THEN realized he was their favorite…
        
        Mike bk
        
        repeat again if they thought he could stick on our 25 man roster they would have put him on the 40 and let him keep pitching in the minors.
    - Ed
      
      then we wouldn’t have to keep him on the active roster all year long.
      
      If we decide to remove him from the 25 man, what’s the process? Ask ourselves if we want him back, and if so, pay ourselves $25,000 and keep him? If not, just keep him?
      
      I don’t think it’s a matter of how much we liked Kroenke, but how many lefty relievers we were willing to put on the 40 man at one time.
      - http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
        
        The fact that we’d return him to ourselves, though, is a bit misleading.
        
        If we remove him from the active roster, i.e. DFA him, he still has to pass through waivers. We’re still going to expose him to all 29 other teams before we just “return him” to ourselves, provided that that’s how this thing works out.
        
        http://www.teamnerdrage.com dr mrs the yankee
        
        You don’t need to pass someone through waivers for them to clear the active (25 man) roster if they have options, which Kroenke does.
        
        DFA is when you remove someone from the 40 man.
        
        JGS
        
        you do for rule 5 guys. If anyone claims him off waivers, the Rule 5 rules follow him to that team
        
        http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
        
        Bingo.
        
        Whomever we get in the R5, if we want to take him off the active 25-man roster, we have to pass him through waivers and thus, any team can claim him.
        
        Chris
        
        I assume then that Kroenke would still be subject to the Rule 5 restrictions. That team would have to keep him on their 25 man roster or give him back to the Yankees (or another team could take him)
        
        http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
        
        Yes.
        
        I’m just saying, though, that this method (not protecting Kroenke, trading Bruney for a R5 pick and then taking Kroenke) is a far more intricate and convoluted way of “securing” Kroenke than it’s being made out to be.
        
        It’s still way simpler to just DFA Bruney and add Kroenke to the 40 man, if that’s what we wanted to do. Even if we didn’t want to add Kroenke to the 40-man because it was too lefty-reliever heavy, we knew Bruney was gonna be non-tendered, we shoulda just DFA’d him and protected Kroenke if he was that important.
        
        JGS
        
        If anyone claims him off waivers, the Rule 5 rules follow him to that team
        
        Chip
        
        True, but we’d be selecting him with the idea that we want to stop another team from selecting him. They could then select him through waivers if we couldn’t keep him all year. The other way, they could have kept him off the 25-man roster and never risked losing him.
- http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ
  
  Nah he was a Yankee. Overrated.
Mike bk

Jon Mayo says maybe John Raynor, 25 yr old OF, from the Marlins. huge drop in AAA but good before that. Any chance we take Aneury Rodriguez or Arquimedes Caminero with the Nats and then someone like Raynor with our own pick?
- http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph Pawlikowski
  
  He slugged .326 in the PCL. Bubba Crosby slugged over .600 in the PCL!
  - pat
    
    Dude was filthy in the Southern League, 312/.402/.489 a little old for it though.
  - Mike bk
    
    i didnt say i liked it but up til last year he was mashing maybe just because he was overage, but he also stole 50 bags a year. maybe another gritner or he was just hurt last year since he was only swiping 18.
    
    i was just thinking more about the concept of pitcher 1, and maybe position player later as a flyer who at worst we give back or we try to pull off a chase wright in reverse trade.
- themgmt
  
  I really like this pick.
  
  Slugged .500 in A and AA. 50SB speed.
  
  High K’s seem to be the problem but I’d pick him.
Rose

This is thoroughly disappointing. Although, I doubt it happens. Regardless of replacing a lefty we just lost…wouldn’t the smart thing be to pick the best guy out there regardless? I’m willing to bet my life savings AND piled up Denny’s giftcards on this not happening. No point.
- http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist
  
  Yeah, we could use a lefty but this is a big disappointment, if true.
http://www.i-yankees.com iYankees

I would actually find it to be hilarious if this occurred.
Reggie C.

MIGHT happen. It’d be pretty boring to see it go down like that.

I’m still gonna hope for a power relief arm (ie., Rice or Archimedes).
Salty Buggah

I hope the Yanks don’t do that. I dont know if Kroenke can stick on the 25 of a team that might pick him so we might get him back anyway.
- http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
  
  Technically speaking, if the Nats take Kroenke from us in the R5 and then trade him to us and we don’t keep him on the 25 man roster all year, do we return Kroenke to… us?
  
  Do we pay ourselves 50K for the pick, and then return 25K to ourselves when we waive him?
  - thurdonpaul
    
    very good questions, but sorry, i dont have any answers to them
  - Evil Empire
    
    Its all just a clever loophole to pay for Jennifer Steinbrenner’s next plastic surgery procedure.
  - Salty Buggah
    
    Hmm, I would think the Nats pay us $50000 (unless Cash agreed to pay for it) since it is their pick and then we pay the Nats 25K.
    
    It all makes sense now. Instead of just non-tendering Bruney and adding Kroenke to the 40 man, Cash did this trade so we keep Kroenke AND get an extra $25K (to lose in the sofa). That Cash…always finding ways to get money. This is a brilliant way to get a free $25K.
    - Ed
      
      Hmm, I would think the Nats pay us $50000 (unless Cash agreed to pay for it) since it is their pick and then we pay the Nats 25K.
      
      I would think the Nats pay us $50k, but the $25k payment requirement would be transferred as part of a trade. Which makes sense in any situation but this one.
      - Salty Buggah
        
        Yea, you’re right.
    - Miraluka
      
      “Cash did this trade so we keep Kroenke AND get an extra $25K (to lose in the sofa). That Cash…always finding ways to get money. This is a brilliant way to get a free $25K.”
      
      IETC
      - http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
        
        Technically, it’s a free 50K, not a free 25K.
        
        The 25K part only happens if we DFA Kroenke and return him to ourselves.
        
        The Nats pay us 50K to take Kroenke in the R5. They then trade him to us as the PTBNL in the Bruney trade. The 25K never happens.
        
        Salty Buggah
        
        Yea, I just changed it below too.
    - Salty Buggah
      
      So no, this is a brilliant way to get a free 50K. Even better!
Charlie

you mean three competent lefty relievers? unless dunn is incompetent, we’ve got him and marte,no?
- Salty Buggah
  
  Well, Dunn doesn’t really have much control yet so I doubt he can contribute much to the pen. He needs some more time to work on his control issues in the minors.
  - http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
    
    Even with his horrid control, though:
    
    Dunn’s peripherals >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kroenke’s peripherals
    - Salty Buggah
      
      Yep
      - Salty Buggah
        
        Kroenke career K/BB: 1.82 (2009: 1.83)
        Dunn career K/BB: 2.35 (2009: 1.64)
        
        So yea, Dunn is obviously better. I just pray to Mo he gets better control. With control, he could maybe K even more people and could be an elite reliever.
        
        http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
        
        The individual totals are more telling:
        
        Dunn, K/9 and BB/9: 9.4, 4.0
        Kroenke, K/9 and BB/9: 7.1, 3.9
        
        Oh, and Dunn’s a year younger.
        
        Salty Buggah
        
        Heh, I was agreeing with you and backing that argument up
    - Rose
      
      Dunn was over Unger…and I was over Dunn…
  - Amol
    
    Dunn’s has problems, but Kroenke’s not significantly better. If you’re going to expand the definition of “competent” to include Kroenke, I think you can include Dunn.
    - http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
      
      Dunn walks everyone, but he has dynamite stuff that overpowers people and piles up strikeouts.
      
      Kroenke walks nobody, but he has junkball stuff and he doesn’t strike anyone out and survives on smoke and mirrors.
      - http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist
        
        Plus Dunn bears a striking resemblance to Mark Messier, and that has to count for something.
      - Salty Buggah
        
        That’s kinda misleading. Kroenke’s career BB/9 in the minors is 3.9. Dunn’s career minor league BB/9 is 4.0…higher than Kroenke’s because of a really bad year last year. So Kroenke walks people and K’s a decent amount (7.1 career K/9). Dunn’s career K/9 is 9.4
        
        However, I dont know if Kroenke can maintain that K rate in the majors with his stuff while we all know Dunn can.
      - Charlie
        
        Dunn, K/9 and BB/9: 9.4, 4.0
        Kroenke, K/9 and BB/9: 7.1, 3.9
        
        You just posted this. a .1 difference is the difference between waling everyone and walking nobody?
        
        http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
        
        My bad. I thought Dunn’s career BB/9 was higher than that.
        
        Salty Buggah
        
        I did too, until I saw the stats. This gets my hopes even more up for Dunn. And we have to remember that Dunn doesn’t much experience with pitching as he was converted from OF. Patience—> A homegrown Marte
        
        http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
        
        Just proves that, even for someone as awesomely wonderful as me:
        
        Looking it up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going from flawed memory
        
        Salty Buggah
        
        True dat
    - Salty Buggah
      
      I’m not saying Dunn is incompetent. I know he’s a beast. I just don’t want him at the MLB level yet. I’d rather have him developing control in the minors instead of not being used at the MLB level.
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John

Ken Rosenthal reports Harden signed with the Rangers for one year 7.5MM plus a 11.5MM option. Could be a good indicator for Sheets and co.
- Salty Buggah
  
  Off topic but yes, it could be. Thanks to the stupid Penny and Wolf deals, Sheets might get a bit too expensive.
  - http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
    
    Added to wit: Sheets is pricing himself as a far better pitcher than Penny and Wolf, and I can’t say I blame him.
    - Salty Buggah
      
      Yea, I guess you’re right.
- http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist
  
  He said “close” not signed.
  
  http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10496890
Richard Deegan

One minor (no pun intended) point in all this, perhaps not so minor:
By not DNTing Bruney and giving him to the Nats, Yanks prevented AL teams from grabbing him and risking him coming back to haunt them some day.
If Nats keep him, shouldn’t be a problem for quite a while, even considering WS. (LOL)
- http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist
  
  If he has that kind of ability (which he does) then why not just keep him? It’s the Yankees and 2 mil were talking about. I’ve heard revenue estimates for the Yanks that were north of 600 mil for last season. It’s peanuts.
  - http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
    
    I miss the “Nostra”.
    - http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist
      
      I miss the Cosa.
      - http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
        
        THAT’S WHAT SHE SAID!
http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

Meh, I’d rather have Bruney on the roster for 2 mil.
- http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
  
  Agreed.
  
  Swapping Bruney for Kroenke doesn’t make sense to me; I’d rather lose Kroenke in the R5 and keep Bruney. Kroenke’s the kind of guy who would likely get returned midseason anyway.
  
  If we’re going to dump Bruney for an R5 guy, it should be on a high-upside young guy. Not Kroenke, who’s pretty average.
themgmt

I’m starting the John Raynor bandwagon.
http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

Sure, having two competent lefty relievers is nice, but it’s not a necessity. The Yanks can do better.

Moreover, Kroenke wouldn’t give us two competent lefty relievers. We already have two competent lefty relievers without him, or at least, have better options for that setup without him.

Both Dunn and WDLR are in front of him on the master depth chart, and are already on the 40 man. Taking Kroenke would push him in front of them, when they’re better bets to outperform him in 2010 and have the MASSIVE benefit of being optionable to the minors.
dkidd

i’ve floated this plan before, still think it could work

1. use rule 5 pick on zach kroenke

2. hide zach kroenke in pen until first game vs royals

3. during first game vs royals, kidnap zack greinke and replace with zach kroenke

4. watch royals puzzle over “zack greinke’s” sudden command issues

5. savor “zach kroenke’s” sudden rise to ace status
- http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
  
  I like it.
  
  Is there a black outfielder named “Justin” we can take in the R5? I’d love to get my hands on Justin Upton.
  - dkidd
    
    the yankees select…
    
    alfred jupols
steve (different one)

i’m confused by this thread. i thought it was already reported that they were taking Caminero??

Steve Henson has reported that the Yankees are planning to take hard-throwing right-hander Arquimedes Caminero. Baseball America has called Caminero, “one of the best arms available with premium arm strength.”

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/12/09/searching-for-a-diamond-in-the-rough/

is that source no good?
steve

yankees had not had this many open spots on the 40 going into the draft in a long time. wouldnt be surprised if they took 2, maybe 3 relievers in it. edwar ramirez is DFAable.
bonestock94

Just got this off Axisa’s twitter..

http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/chatter/2009/dec/09/nats-will-select-kroenke-first-in-rule-5/

Looks like it’s mot just one rumor. I was hoping for a more exciting first pick.
themgmt

Not good Cash. Plenty of better talent and Kroenke would still gave the Rule 5 draftee rules attached to him. Use the first pick to go for something better and if Kroenke is still available, use your 30th pick to get him.

A waste to trade Bruney for a guy you already have.