Olney & Cafardo on Damon

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Good morning Fac… wait … wrong site. My bad.

Had enough of this Johnny Damon nonsense yet? Well, Buster Olney and Nick Cafardo give us some more insight into his demands and how negotiations with the Yanks went down (both links via MLBTR). Olney says that once the Curtis Granderson trade was completed, Scott Boras told the Yankees “If you’re going to offer a contract that represents a decrease in salary, don’t bother to make an offer,” and it wasn’t until the Nick Johnson news broke that Team Damon was willing to negotiate. As cliche as it sounds: you snooze, you lose.

Olney adds that the $6M offer the Yanks made last week “might be about the same or even better than what other teams offered.” Boras indicated that “We’ve heard some very creative proposals on Johnny,’’ which is good, because his market is as dry as the Sahara right now.

Open Thread: A walk around the blog
Live from the Bloomberg Sports launch
  • slappy white

    How sad is it gonna be to see poor Johnny playing for a losing team for 3 mil a year while Nick Johnson recovers on the DL for most of the year and Randy Winn hits .220 ?

    • Johan Iz My Brohan

      Not sad at all, Damon and Boras misread the market horribly this year, and have to pay for it.

    • ultimate913

      If he’s gonna play for 3 mil, the Yanks might as well sign him. They offered 6 mil and used 2 mil on Winn. Leaving 4 mil left. Johnson will be DHing so he probably wont get injured as much. and if any Major league batter, hits .220 or worse in NYS, they really don’t deserve their job. Although if Damon is resigned, they should send Gardner down(if he has an option left which I’m not sure of) and place Winn on the bench.

      • Mike Bk

        the problem with your logic is clear from those reports that the yanks had better offers than what is out there at 6 mil and damon turned it down. this is now a pride battle.

    • bonestock94

      If Nick Johnson hits the DL I fully expect the Yankees to trade for an older slugger with an expiring contract at the end of the season. No worries.

    • pete

      players every bit as likely to wind up on the DL this year as nick johnson: Johnny Damon, Hideki Matsui, Andy Pettitte, AJ Burnett, John Lackey, and pretty much every player over the age of 30 in all of baseball

    • SamVa

      You know, pessimism isn’t going to get you anywhere in life.

      Winn is competing with Gardy/Hoffmann for LF..
      If he hits .220, I don’t think that he will be getting very much PT.

      If Johnson hits the DL, than Johnson hits the DL.. I don’t think he will this year though.. He needs the big contract after this year and I think he is going to do everything in his power to stay healthy. We will see though.

    • Kiko Jones

      slappy, don’t forget to add Baseball Prospectus’ 3rd place prediction for the Yanks.

  • Reggie C.

    JD could be Toronto’s primary DH next season, and it’d be a strong fit. JD is obviously not going to displace Adam Lind or Vernon Wells. I’m not sure who’s going to play RF, but I imagine it wouldn’t be JD, at least not on an everyday basis. JD hit with alot of power against Baltimore, Boston, and Tampa, (OPS avg .877).

    • SamVa

      … just imagine what he would do in the NL…

      I kinda want him to sign with the Giants.. (yes I realize that’s a pitcher’s park)

      I just want to see the Giants do something to compliment that ridiculous staff.

    • http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0902/mlb.alex.rodriguez.through.the.years/images/1993.alex-rodriguez.jpg Drew

      Heh, JD has all types of leg issues as it is. 81 games running on field turf is not ideal.

    • JGS

      didn’t factor in Baltimore, but in terms of Tampa and Boston, most of that production was at home.

      Small sample size warning applies, but on the road at Tampa and Boston he hit a combined .224/.286/.431/.717, and the even-more-egregiously-small-sample components of that don’t look any better (.715 OPS at Fenway, .719 at the Trop)

  • SamVa

    I know Boras just wants what is best for his clients, but do we honestly think this is what Johnny wanted? I mean maybe early on, he thought “Hey, it’s late in my career, i’m a good player, I had a great year last year.. I can do better than this offer!” But honestly.. I think this is another case of Boras ruining a player’s final years in the game by feeding false information into his mind about being able to obtain much more money than what is actually possible. I don’t know what JD actually wanted, but I am willing to bet that it was not even close to what he will end up with. Boras may be a “super agent,” but he continues to really blow it for the older player’s. Just my two cents.

    • Hey ZZ

      Who else has he “blown” it for? Jason Varitek?

  • pete

    Mitch Williams made his first good point as a professional analyst the other day on MLB Network when debating JD with Jon Heyman when he said “we’re in a market where players are going to get paid for what they WILL do, not what they have already done”. My respect for the man went up a notch. That puts him at notch -209393028844

    • crawdaddie

      Yes, Mitch Williams stated yesterday morning that Damon made a major mistake pricing himself too high for this market.

    • rbizzler

      Well played.

      The market correction for older players has been a bitter pill for agents and players to swallow. I think that the savvy agents of older guys are aggressive right out of the gate in FA and grab the guaranteed cash ASAP, rather than wait it for a few extra zero’s that might not make it to the table.

    • Kevin

      That’s a great point that many people (Ken Rosenthal,Jon Heyman etc.) aren’t understanding. First of all Granderson is replacing Damon not Winn. Secondly, Damon is likely to decline where as Granderson is likely to improve.

      • pete

        also, playing half his games in YSIII would probably give damon an OPS of ~.835 next year, whereas if he were in Detroit or Oakland, he’d probably be closer to .800. If the competition is looking at you as either a DH who’s going to OPS .800, or a LF with terrible defense who is going to OPS .800, then there’s no reason that the yankees should pay you more than what that player would make on this particular market, which probably shouldn’t exceed $5 million at this point. Throw in the fact that the yanks’ offense is fine without him, and their defense is much improved without him, and even that seems like a hefty price for the yankees to pay for a luxury item that, in all likelihood, represents a marginal upgrade in terms of production, and an absolute non-factor in terms of revenue, which is ultimately the bottom line.

        • Not The Rays


          • pete

            baha love the enthusiasm

  • http://mlbnewsrumors.com Johnny

    Boras got greedy and screwed over his client.

  • http://frosthendu.blogspot.com/2010/01/normal-0-false-false-false.html Steve H

    Nick Cafardo last Sunday:

    I find the Yankees’ treatment of Johnny Damon baffling.

    • Warren

      But Nick doesn’t own a MLB Team, so he will never understand.

  • mike

    whats the difference – he will sign with Baltimore/Houston etc, then the Yanks will trade for him in July anyway…..

  • Little Bill

    This same argument came up last year with A.J. Burnett. Many of us, including myself, thought A.J. would be a huge addition and he certainly was all season and in W.S. Game 2 wasn’t he? Damon lost his chance and if he’s playing bad left field on a last place team, good. Granderson and Johnson will work out just fine.

  • pete luciano

    I just don’t know why Cashman couldn’t have waited longer to sign Winn. If the market is as bad as they say it is who the heck was waiting in line for Winn. He’s going to be 36 next yr, is coming off his worst year, hit 158 vs leftys with a good size sample of 125 at bats, and has absolutely no power. It was a bad sign, untimely, and unnecessary. You could have waited since guys like Winn are always out there. Then, Johnny might have come back for 3-5 mil. Now we’re stuck with a bunch of unproven nobodys in left field that most likely won’t produce. We’ll definately be looking for a right hand bat later as this line up is very susectible to left hand pitching. You’ve got Johnson replacing Matsui and he doesn’t hit leftys as well as Matsui, Granderson who hit 181 vs leftys last year, and now Winn who’s splits vs leftys is the worst since 1954. Who’s coming off the bench late in games to ph for Winn and Granderson, Hoffman, please.

    • Steve H


    • ROBTEN

      I’ll just pick one:

      You’ve got Johnson replacing Matsui and he doesn’t hit leftys as well as Matsui

      FUN FACT:

      Matsui career against LHP: .294/.359/.465/.824

      Johnson career against LHP: .292/.424/.438/.863

      • 28 next year

        hey, Johnson’s BA is lower than Matsui. Everyone knows that is all that matters.

      • pete

        only a nerd would call a fact “fun”

    • Sweet Dick Willie

      We’ll definately be looking for a right hand bat later as this line up is very susectible to left hand pitching.

      Lifetime vs LHP
      Jeter 336/409/500
      Nick J 292/424/438
      Tex 309/394/537
      Alex 295/392/575
      Jorge 299/381/496
      Cano 300/341/453
      Swish 251/395/439
      Granderson 210/270/344
      Gardner 241/310/316

      If, by line-up, you mean the last two batters in the line-up, then yes it is susceptible to LHP.

      However, this line-up as a whole absolutely mashes LHP, and no one in their right mind would describe it as being “very susectible to left hand pitching.”

      If you’re going to bitch about something, try getting your facts straight. It’s not that hard in the age of the interwebs.

      • pete luciano

        Whose coming off your bench to ph for the eight and nine hole hitters when a tough lefty comes in late in games, Hoffman, Winn, Cervelli, Pena, please, get your facts straight. The Winn signing was a waste of $2m and $2m that could have been used to sign Damon. The Yankees will be looking for outfield help next year and they will give up money and prospects.

    • bexarama

      his career is entirely defined by a large sample size!!!

    • r.w.g.

      You just come across as a bitter complainer who wants to slag on shit you don’t understand.

    • ROBTEN

      Here’s another one:

      I just don’t know why Cashman couldn’t have waited longer to sign Winn. If the market is as bad as they say it is who the heck was waiting in line for Winn.

      He [Winn] was willing to join the Nationals if the Yankees did not sign him quickly. (link goes to source)

    • pete

      i’m going to call this a prime example of the TSJC grammar-intellect rule of thumb

    • pete

      “good size sample of 125 at bats”

      125 AB / 4 AB per game = 32 games. 32 games into last season, AL MVP runner up Mark Teixiera was hitting under .200. Clearly, he couldn’t hit MLB-level pitching. We shoulda nevah signed this guy

      • pete luciano

        125 ab vs leftys in one season is a large sample, there not that many left handed pitchers in baseball and if you’re going to defend those numbers with an aging no power outfielder, go ahead.

    • Pasqua

      Keep ’em coming, alex gonzalez.

  • Chuck

    Am I still the only one that thinks the chances are pretty good he ends up a Yankee still? I mean they offered him 6 and then signed Winn for 2. So presumably they could still have 4 mil and if the market sucks for him and none of the other teams think he can be as productive outsite yankee stadium I wouldnt be shocked to see him have to take 4

    • Warren

      Johnny Damon will still be looking for aq contract come July, so no trade is required by the Yankees.

      Many ex-MLB players will still be out there in July 2010 looking for a contract.

    • ROBTEN

      Am I still the only one that thinks the chances are pretty good he ends up a Yankee still?

      I think that Cashman’s quote earlier in the off season about players reluctant to return to teams which have asked them to take a pay cut speaks to the issue with Damon. The reports coming out now that Damon (possibly) rejected contract offers from the Yankees at or above what other offers he has received, but at a lower salary than his previous contract, would indicate that Damon (like Matsui) would ultimately rather sign with another team than with the Yankees at a lower salary. Perhaps Damon and Boras have not so much been negotiating with the Yankees, but using them to negotiate with another team. In other words, we have assumed that Damon was using “mystery teams” to try to drive up the offer from the Yankees. However, perhaps Damon has never actually intended to sign again, but wanted an offer that he and Boras could use as leverage to drive up offers from other teams so as to take less of a cut than the Yankees were proposing.

  • NY Nick

    One of the issues that is never discussed is Damon’s connection with the Madoff scandal. I believe that he lost a great deal of money with Madoff’s fraudulant investments. Damon had to view this as his last opportunity for a big money, multi-year contract and a chance to regain some of his financial security. I am certain this has a great deal to do with early contract positioning. It is clear that he overplayed his hand, but given the circumstances, I understand.

    • Pasqua

      I don’t believe he lost money in the Madoff scandal. If I remember correctly, his assets were frozen for a while because the firm(s) in which he had / invested his money were under investigation (or something to that effect). It wasn’t that he had personally invested in a scheme.

  • Frank Nic 49

    Johnny, In your next life, hire me for your agent,Scott is in dream land.
    We will miss you but not as much as you will miss us. Afterall you once wore Red.