Feb
05

Hank speaketh and Derek benefiteth

By

Since Hank Steinbrenner outbid himself for the services of Alex Rodriguez, the Yanks’ General Partner has been generally silent. He hasn’t tried to erupt at the media, and his brother Hal has emerged as the public face of the franchise. Still, now and then, Hank speaks, and we cringe a bit. Yesterday, that’s exactly what happened.

In an interview with AP on Thursday, Hank spoke generally about the Yankees. He thinks the Yanks are going to repeat; he likes the additions of Nick Johnson and Javier Vazquez; yadda, yadda, yadda. They are the typical comments of a General Partner on the eve of Spring Training.

One thing that Hank said bears a little bit of scrutiny, though. When asked about Derek Jeter‘s impossible-to-ignore pending free agency, Hank had a few words to share. “We’ll get into all of that eventually,” Steinbrenner told AP. “Jeter’s place in Yankee history is obvious, so I think you can pretty much assume from there.”

Ah, yes, let’s make some assumptions based upon what Derek Jeter has done over the course of his career. We knew this was coming, and Jeter probably deserves the payday that awaits him. However, it’s tough for the Yankees on a budget to justify this future expenditure to such an extreme degree.

Once or twice this winter, we’ve looked at Derek Jeter’s career and his contract status. We saw him win a fifth World Series ring, and we heard false rumors of an impending three-year extension. We know that Derek Jeter is a shortstop with a career OPS+ of 121 and a batting line of .317/.388/.459 who sits on the edge of 3000 hits. He will get paid.

When Johnny Damon and the Yankees seemingly finalized their divorce, Damon spoke about how he hopes the Yanks don’t treat Jeter the same way they treated him. Of course, that was a bit of hyperbole on Damon’s behalf because the Yanks were never attached to Damon the same way they are connected to Jeter. They won’t throw out Jeter with the bathwater as they did Damon. He will get his due.

The bigger question right now isn’t an “if”; it’s a “should.” The Yankees have millions of dollars committed to Alex Rodriguez, CC Sabathia, and Mark Teixeira. The latter two make up a core of players at the right age playing out their peak years with the Yankees, and A-Rod, while older than we’d like, is still a great player. Now they have to figure out how to approach the old guard as Jeter and Mariano Rivera will be without contracts in 10 months, with Jorge Posada following a year later.

We know that the Yankees will reward these players. We know the team will spend what it takes to keep them around. We know the trio will see the dollars flow their way when the time comes. But the Yankees, as with any other business, operate with a business and with a goal in mind. Does signing Derek Jeter to an above-market deal make sense in that regard? Probably not. Yet, he will get paid. After all, Hank said so.

Categories : Musings
  • nda

    Mariano also needs a new contract.

    • whozat

      Yes, that’s why Ben said “Jeter and Mariano Rivera will be without contracts in 10 months,”

      (emphasis mine)

      • JGS

        it didn’t originally. that was edited

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

    Scott Boras: If you’re worried about security for your million, the Tattaglias will guarantee it.
    Hank Steinbrenner: Whoa, now, you’re telling me that the Tattaglias guarantee our investment without–
    George Steinbrenner: Wait a minute.
    [the Don gives his son a cold stare, freezing Hank into silence. The others fidget with embarrassment at this outbreak, but Boras looks slyly satisfied... ]
    George Steinbrenner: [dismissive] I have a sentimental weakness for my children and I spoil them, as you can see. They talk when they should listen. Anyway, Signor Boras, my no to you is final. I want to congratulate you on your new business and I’m sure you’ll do very well and good luck to you. Especially since your interests don’t conflict with mine. Thank you.
    [Boras leaves]
    George Steinbrenner: Henry, come here… What’s the matter with you? I think your brain is going soft with all that comedy you are playing with that young girl. Never tell anyone outside the Family what you are thinking again. Go on.

    • Thomas

      If Jennifer or Jessica Steinbrenner get married/remarried, do you think Boras will come to George and ask him for a ridiculous 20 year $30M per extension of ARod, hoping that George will have to grant him that favor on the day of his daughter’s wedding?

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Heh.

      • Not the Rays

        30Y $50M per.

        A guys gotta worry about inflation.

    • cheddar

      Good stuff, this.

    • Not the Rays

      IETNOMQ VVM Tommie

  • Rose

    They have to figure out how to approach the old guard though as Jeter will be without a contract in 10 months, and Mariano Rivera and Jorge Posada will follow a year later.

    According to MLBTR, Mariano Rivera is a free agent after this season with Derek Jeter.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....gents.html

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      Good catch.

      For contract info, though, Cots >>>>>> MLBTR. It’s their main source, anyway.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Yes, I fixed the post.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        (pours Mike a tall refreshing glass of Pinstripe DFA IPA)

        • http://iheartrerun.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/rerun.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          You gotta add that one to the meme dictionary thread.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            Agreed.

            • king of fruitless hypotheticals

              shipped first cut of label off to printer today to see what he thought.

    • A.D.

      Yeah he had a 3 years deal, not sure if they changed the wording after the post was originally put up, but it’s correct now.

  • TopChuckie

    Am I being naive to hope Jeter will also have an appreciation for his place on the Yankees, realize he is approaching his declining years, keep in mind all the endorsement money he has made along with a very fair salary from the Yanks, and negotiate realistically with the Yanks to arrive a a mutually beneficial contract? In other words, not try to bend them over knowing they have to resign him? I don’t want to be a homer, but I have to think more than most, Jeter is the kind of guy who will do the right thing. Does three more years at the same $18M-$20M per, and then year to year after that seem fair, sort of like Wakefield but for obviously bigger dollars?

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      Am I being naive to hope Jeter will also have an appreciation for his place on the Yankees, realize he is approaching his declining years, keep in mind all the endorsement money he has made along with a very fair salary from the Yanks, and negotiate realistically with the Yanks to arrive a a mutually beneficial contract?

      Yes.

      • mike c

        jeter’s got too much class and dough already to let him become an overpriced waste on the field. he’d rather be like jordan and retire while he’s still good than become the yankees version of varitek. give him 4/80 with an option for a 5th if you want to make him an offer

      • http://iheartrerun.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/rerun.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

        I wouldn’t be so certain of that. I think he’ll try for the most money, too, but the idea of a superstar negotiating a reasonable or even under-market contract to help the team isn’t without precedent, and it’s certainly not naive to think there’s a chance Jeter could act in that manner. It’s naive to think he definitely will, but I could see Jeter doing that, I don’t think it’s really that crazy an idea.

        • Not the Rays

          It’s the yankees though. He knows this. If he makes a sacrifice to helpp the team compete it will be in the form of interest free deferrals, not rates/years.

          As far as Jeter being a class act, my expectation is that he will get as much money and as many years as he can, probably ask for 5 or 6, but if he declines to the point he’s not meeting his own performance standards, would walk away from the remainder of the deal, like McGwire’s last extensions.

          Just my guess.

  • http://twitter.com/tafkasic the artist formerly known as (sic)

    Just wanted to respond to this:

    Ah, yes, let’s make some assumptions based upon what Derek Jeter has done over the course of his career

    I’m no fan of paying for yesterday’s performance, but one could make the case that low-balling Jeter, given his special place in team histroy, would be extraordinarily bad PR. What, the Yankees can open the wallet for AJ Burnett and Carl Pavano, but they can’t pay Jeter “enough” to ensure that he’s a Yankee for life?

    Not saying that we should give him 120/6 or anything, but I do think there’s a PR element here that the Yankees should, and will, consider.

    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

      I’m not saying lowball Jeter; I’m saying give him his value. His value can include franchise recognition and good will, But does it make sense to overpay him by too much because of his past accomplishments?

      • http://twitter.com/tafkasic the artist formerly known as (sic)

        I mean, if his value includes franchise recognition and good will, then you are by definition paying him for his past accomplishments. The question is – how much is too much?

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

    INT. CASHMAN’S OFFICE, WINTER OF 2009-2010:

    Scott Boras: If you’re going to offer a contract that’s a single penny lower than what Johnny made last year, don’t bother.
    Brian Cashman: F&%$ off, Scott. Blow me.

    … aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, SCENE!

    —————–

    (grabs crystal ball, gazes into future)

    —————–

    INT. CASHMAN’S OFFICE, WINTER OF 2010-2011:

    Casey Close and Fernando Cuza (in unison): Our clients want to be paid what they were paid last year, minimum. We’re not at all amenable to a salary cut.
    Brian Cashman: I wouldn’t dream of it, fellas. I’d never lower their salaries; it would be an insult. Your clients are part of the permanent Yankee family. George loves them like his own sons. Let’s hammer out 3 year extensions for both of these fine gentlemen at their 2010 salary levels.
    Close and Cuza: Agreed. Pleasure doing business with you, Mr. Cashman.
    Cashman: Please, call me Brian. Now that that’s settled, who’s up for some pussytubing?
    Close and Cuza: ME! ME!

    … aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, SCENE!

    • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Templeton_Peck Templeton “Brendog” Peck

      3 more years for mo? how about 2?

      • Not the Rays

        He said 5. Who are we to argue?

    • http://iheartrerun.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/rerun.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      “Now that that’s settled, who’s up for some pussytubing?”

      This also needs to get added to the meme dictionary thread (with appropriate attribution to KSK).

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Done.

    • king of fruitless hypotheticals

      Scott Boras: If you’re going to offer a contract that’s a single penny lower than what Johnny made last year, don’t bother.
      Brian Cashman: F&%$ off, Scott. Blow me.
      … aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, SCENE!

      i wonder if the first went more like this…

      Scott Boras: If you’re going to offer a contract that’s a single penny lower than what Johnny made last year, don’t bother.
      Brian Cashman:
      … aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, SCENE!

  • Will

    Hopefully the Yankees are smart enough to realize that saving a few million dollars is not worth the bad PR of a contract struggle with Jeter. As a diehard fan, I have no problem with any of the core being paid above what their future value might suggest. Jeter and Mariano deserve one inflated contract during their decline phase.

    • JGS

      perhaps not, but Jeter would look just as bad in that. He needs the Yankees as much as the Yankees need him

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        He needs would like to stay with the Yankees as much as the Yankees need would like to keep him.

        Fixed.

      • Will

        I don’t think Jeter would look as bad because I think everyone assumes the Yankees are made of money, and besides, he has a nice smile (only half joking). Jeter is so popular, that the organization will definitely be cast as the bad guy. Besides, I like to think that the Yankees take care of their own…it’s one of the luxuries of being a Yankee fan (not having to choose between rewarding the past and protecting the future).

        • JGS

          the Yankees would look bad, but Derek Jeter wouldn’t be the quasi-mythical demigod Derek Jeter (to the media anyway) anymore if he was on another team, and he knows it

          there is very little doubt in my mind that they will work something out

          • Will

            There’s no doubt in my mind either…my only point was to suggest that we has fans shouldn’t get caught up in trying to determine if the Yankees are getting a good deal.

  • http://twitter.com/tafkasic the artist formerly known as (sic)

    BTW, huge thanks to Hank for reducing our leverage for no good reason. Love that.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      Meh, I don’t think anyone’s leverage is really at all reduced by anything anyone can say on either side at this point.

      The entire baseball-watching planet knows the situation. From both angles. There’s no new revelations here.

      • http://twitter.com/tafkasic the artist formerly known as (sic)

        I don’t think it’ll have any financial result, it’s just unnecessary. I’d like to get him enrolled in some Business 101 at Hillsborough Community College.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          Maybe Hank just says dumb shit because he’s haunted by the Ghost of Alex Gonzalez.

          We should get the Ghost Whisperer on this case immediately. She could be a big help.

        • Will

          Maybe Hank is just a Yankee fan at heart who wants to see Jeter retire in pinstripes. It’s nice to hear people talk without a filter every now and then, especially when it does no harm to the team.

    • A.D.

      Eh, he didn’t say anything that wasn’t obvious. Just like Damon saying he likes New York and wanted to stay probably made no difference in his current contract situation.

    • Ed

      Nah, he’s not reducing leverage. Jeter and the Yankees know equally well that “Derek Jeter the Yankee” is worth a huge amount of money in marketing value. As are things like “Derek Jeter, the only player with 3,000 hits as a Yankee”. There’s far, far more to Jeter’s value than just a stat line, and it’s silly to pretend otherwise.

      That comment is probably intended to try to cut down the questions from reporters on Jeter’s contract situation.

      • Not the Rays

        I agree except for that last bit. It implies Hank thinks before he speaks, and speaks deliberately, as a means to a strategic end.

        I think he said what he said because there was a microphone in his face, and it made him feel the big man, just like daddy.

    • Bo

      how is it ‘your leverage’?

      isnt hank the one that pays him?

      seems to me hes in the ‘this deal will get done’ range. so dont worry about it

  • A.D.

    My question is, if not the Yankees, who is going to shell out the big bucks for Derek Jeter?

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      The Marlins.

      They’re contractually obligated to now.

      • JGS

        works for me. They would be contractually obligated to sign him to an exorbitant contract, but they would be Lorially obligated to trade Hanley before doing so

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          Loria would probably just sell Hanley’s contract directly to the league office and then have Bud Selig sign Derek Jeter to a lucrative contract and sell that Jeter contract back to the Marlins.

          Selig would then appoint Frank Robinson and Omar Minaya as co-league executives in charge of conveying Hanley Ramirez’s contract to a third party. Like, oh, say, I don’t know, maybe… John Henry’s Red Sox. Yeah, that works.

    • Thomas

      Well, if Scutaro doesn’t work out, the Red Sox might still be looking for a SS.

      • http://twitter.com/tafkasic the artist formerly known as (sic)

        That’s cool. If the Mets decline Reyes’ option maybe we can lock him up.

        • Thomas

          That’s a shot at Jeter!!!1!9!1

          /mediots

      • Rose

        That would make Brett Favre’s decision look like it never happened

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          I’d be legitimately torn.

          On the one hand, I love the Yankees and hate the Sox, so I’d have to root against Derek Jeter.

          On the other hand, if Derek Jeter actually lead the Red Sox to a title, it would literally cause Sox fans heads to explode. That would be an awesome pyrrhic victory of sorts. Would I trade one Red Sox title for the mass execution of millions of Red Sox fans? Hmmmm…..

          • http://twitter.com/riddering Riddering

            The only thing that would make that scenario crazier would be Jeter winning his first and only MVP award in Boston.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

              Back to the realm of reality: I want Derek Jeter to win the 2010 All Star Game MVP.

              Why, you ask? Because said MVP trophy is now named “The Ted Williams Award”. We have to have a few Yankee winners of that thing.

              Delicious petty.

    • Bo

      Why wouldnt the Sox put him at ss/DH? You dont think they would like that karma??

  • Chris

    When Johnny Damon and the Yankees seemingly finalized their divorce, Damon spoke about how he hopes the Yanks don’t treat Jeter the same way they treated him.

    The thing that Damon misses here is that Jeter is better than Damon. Since 2006, when Damon joined the Yankees:

    JD: .285 .363 .458 .821 114OPS+ in 576 gmaes
    DJ: .325 .394 .453 .847 122OPS+ in 613 games

    And this doesn’t even take into account that Jeter plays a premium defensive position and Damon is a corner outfielder.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      And this doesn’t even take into account that Jeter plays a premium defensive position and Damon is a corner outfielder designated hitter.

      Fixed.

  • Rose

    The question is…are other teams really going to even try for Derek Jeter? Or are they going to hope/wait for a blowout of sorts and then kick the tires thereafter?

    • Mac

      Teams will inquire but I highly doubt many will throw offers his way unless they are asking for them.

      Keeping good PR will be the up most important factor for the Yanks. So getting a contract ironed out as quickly as possible will be ideal.

      Sure Jeter is going to be 36 next year. Sure he may not be able to play shortstop another 5 years. But a guy like himself generates so much money for this team just by being on the team.

      I would be fine with a 5 year 100 million dollar contract. Mainly because it is not my money.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        That fifth year scares the bejesus out of me.

        I’d really love to hold the line at four years. Three years would be a Mosend.

        • Mac

          I’m with ya

          Anything but a guaranteed 5th year would be better. Mutal option that biaotch, make it PA incentive, anything but guaranteed.

  • throwstrikes

    Jeter could win the PR war of all PR wars with this contract.

    A-Rod’s contract put Jeter up $80M in 2001 because he was getting 10/$109M until A-Rod got 10/$252M. Despite having one of the biggest MLB contracts ever he’s never been seen in the greedy athlete category.

    The PR value of Jeter taking a little less and playing the “It’s not about the money, it’s about loving the NY Yankees and the game” card will make up the money in endorsements and legacy.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      The PR value of Jeter taking a little less and playing the “It’s not about the money, it’s about loving the NY Yankees and the game” card will make up the money in endorsements and legacy.

      Meh, whether Jeter leaves money on the table or plays hardball and demands the same (or higher) salary, he’s not going to become any MORE loved by Yankee fans. We already treat him like a deity. Leaving money on the table to score brownie points is silly for him.

      Diminishing marginal utility.

      • Not the Rays

        Diminishing marginal utility of public adoration vs. diminishing marginal utility of a dollar? Very interesting

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          Very.

  • bob

    They will do what they can to keep Mariano and Jeter happy, but Posada will be a different case. Miranda and Romine are waiting and Cervelli could continue to be a pleasant surprise. When Posada’s contract is up he may be a DH, first base backup, and his salary will need to be adjusted, which will be tough for him to swallow.

    • pete

      By the end of 2011, Jorge will not want to be a MLB catcher anymore, and may not even want to go through a full season of DHing (which he’ll probably end up doing for most of 2011 anyway). That was the unheralded genius of overspending on Jorge, year-wise. Posada’s a stubborn enough guy that if his contract had expired at the end of ’09 or 2010, he’d probably ask for a 3-year deal. By the end of 2011, though, when the man is 40 years old, I just don’t see it. Especially if he struggles a lot during 2011, which is a huge possibility.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        And you know what?

        In the winter of 2011-2012, Jorge will be exactly like Johnny Damon this winter.

        If he’s amenable to a short term market value contract, he comes back. If not, he leaves. The writing is on the wall, Jorge. Read it.

        • bexarama

          I’m pretty sure Posada’s going to retire after his contract is up.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            Meh, way too soon to tell.

          • Snakes on the mother effin plane

            Bench coach?

            • bexarama

              Actually, yes ;)

              Yeah, I probably shouldn’t have made such a declarative statement. But like Ed said below me, he’s made a bunch of comments about how he can’t catch a million games any more. He’s gonna be 40 (right? If not 40, then like 39) when his contract is over.

              If he gets a new contract, I think it’ll be a one-year style thing for him to be a DH.

        • Ed

          I think Jorge realizes it. He’s already made comments this offseason about how he can’t catch as many games as he used to.

          And I think he knew what he was doing on the free agent market last time. He played his cards right and made the Yankees believe he was willing to go to the Mets unless they upped their offer. He seemed to realize the leverage he had then and used it well, so presumably he’d realize when he doesn’t have it.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            Hope so.

            I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he decides he’s not ready to hang them up and wants another year or two after 2012.

            • Ed

              Oh, agreed, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he wanted to keep playing. I just think he’ll realize that he’ll need to accept big paycut.

              Hopefully by then Montero will be getting a large chunk of playing time behind the plate, which should make Posada’s place a lot more obvious.

    • Mac

      I just don’t see Posada signing a contract with the Yanks for the 2012 season. By then he won’t be able to effectively catch and we will have to many other people that may need to fill up the DH spot (Montero? A-Rod, Jeter)

      I would feel a whole lot better about letting Montero/Romine develop in the minors for another few years if Cervelli shows us an average bat this year with more PA’s.

  • pete

    I think Cash just has to be frank with Jeter – tell him that while he remains a productive player – a passable or better defender and a good hitter, he’ll get paid above market in terms of AAV, and by a good bit, because his image does bring in a great deal of revenue regardless of his contribution to winning, but the team simply cannot afford to carry a 39/40 year old SS. Give him a lightly frontloaded and generous guaranteed contract through his age 38 season, with a club option for the year after that. Tell him that if he continues to perform after that, they will continue to sign him to one-year deals, but as there really never has been a productive shortstop that old before, the team just can’t take that risk, no matter how great jeter still is, and that Jetes being forced off SS, unless he wants to, would be a bad situation for all involved. Hopefully Jeter will want to go out the Mussina way – on a good year, not a bad one. I think Jeter will begin to feel his age during the 2011 season, so maybe he’ll say going into 2012 “this is my last year, i’m going to give it my all, rip shit up, and go out with a bang”. Of course, that could change a lot if Jeter really wants a shot at 4000 hits (which he probably won’t ever get).

    • Zack

      “Tell him that if he continues to perform after that, they will continue to sign him to one-year deals”

      Yeah, not realistic.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        There’s a reason Tim Wakefield had that perpetual one year renewable contract:

        He sucks, he’s Tim Wakefield.

        Derek Jeter: not Tim Wakefield

        • bexarama

          I’m not even kidding, the other day I turned on ESPN for all of ten seconds for the first time pretty much since baseball ended (excluding football stuff), and they were talking about how Wakefield was a “sure” Hall of Famer.

          • Tom Zig

            Wakefield is a compiler, doesn’t the HOF hate compilers? And his stats aren’t even that good.

            • bexarama

              I agree but it’s ESPN and he’s a Red Sox hero, sooooo…

              and I don’t really think Wakefield is still playing because he wants to compile stats to go to the HOF.

  • gfd

    Jeter will be the first YANKEE to bat 3000 hits, oh yea they’ll make him happy. Mariano’s arm will fall off before the Yankees let him go. Mo was the ONLY closer last season, in the postseason that didn’t blow a save or cost the Yankees a game. He was used for multiple innings way beyond his norm, and yet was true to form. He’s simply great!!

    Expect the BBWAA to name an award for closers after him, when he retires, the Mariano Rivera (dominance) excellence in closing.

    • bexarama

      I agree that we’ve got to bring back Mo, but while it was awesome that he was the only closer to “make it” through the playoffs, using a 19-game MAXIMUM to prove that just doesn’t hold water. I mean, Joe Nathan blew a save pretty spectacularly in the postseason and was fairly awful in that one other appearance he made in the ALDS. I’d still consider him the best relief pitcher in the game today, after Mo.

      And I fully expect a whole bunch of relief pitching awards to get renamed the “Mariano Rivera Award” the minute he retires. Which is NEVER HAPPENING NOOOO I WON’T HEAR IT (covers ears, stomps feet, sings to self)

  • Stuckey

    I’ll try to make this succinct.

    Something Ben SORT of touched and important to note BEFORE fans get all caught up in the debate of how much Jeter is REALLY worth and how much it will affect the Yankee budget…

    Jeter and Rivera’s contracts may be somewhat budget neutral, meaning:

    From a purely business standpoint, the Yankees may view what they’d need to pay both “above market” (considering their age) as paying for itself – meaning the “extra” amount wouldn’t necessarily impact or be deducted from the general roster budget pool.

    In other words, the Yankees may allocate ADDITIONAL budgetary funds to keep these players, keep them happy and keep the PR positive, without borrowing from another area.

    If a fan think Jeter will be worth $10m in 2011 dollars but the Yankees give him $20m, it’d be easy to assume (and will) Jeter is “taking away” $10m where it could be spent otherwise on players in their prime.

    But that isn’t necessarily the case.

    • Ed

      I think you’ve got the right idea, but you’re getting at it wrong.

      A baseball player is worth $X on the field and $Y in marketing. For most players, $Y isn’t very significant (at least not relative to $X). In Jeter’s case, $Y is probably an 8 digit number, or at the very least a high 7 digit one.

      The result is that having Jeter on the team allows the payroll to be higher. It’s quite likely that if you were to replace Jeter with another shortstop, the team wouldn’t actually gain any flexibility in the payroll.

  • http://forums.projectcovo.com/images/smilies/e6omir.gif Do Not Feed The Trolls!

    Why do people act like a PR will decimate the Yankees? If Jeter doesn’t like the Yankees offer and the two parties cannot come to an agreement. It wouldnt be the worst thing in the world for the Yankees to let Jeter sign somewhere else if he so chooses. If they continue to win fans will not care.

    Jeter already received a contract for his “past services” in the 10 year contract. He will continue to get paid paid well if he still performs, but if his contract demands are more than the Yankees would like to pay, well then you cannot blame the Yankees if they choose to move on.

    • CountryClub

      Jeter has outperformed his current deal.

      • http://forums.projectcovo.com/images/smilies/e6omir.gif Do Not Feed The Trolls!

        $145.6- Hes been worth that since 2002
        $176.4- How much hes been paid since 2002

        He signed a contract in 2001 worth for 10Y $189mm
        Lets say he was worth 5 WAR in 2001 his worth is about ~15mm

        So since 2001 hes been worth ~$160.5
        He still needs to to make up roughly $28.5mm for him to be “worth it”.

        • CountryClub

          That’s interesting. I’ve seen other people do the same type of breakdown and determine that he’s outperformed his deal. Thanks for the clarification.

        • McGatman

          Uh, dude that 176.4 salary number you read off Fangraphs is wrong (add up the salaries since 2002 – they come to about $154M). Since 2001 Jeter’s made about 166M. The difference between what he’s earned and what he’s “worth”, going off your $161M figure, is about $5M, a rounding error on a contract that size for ANY player. Anyway what’s the point of this exercise? Jeter is the FACE of the Yankee franchise at this point, like a Brett or Ripken. When he retires, and goes into the Hall, every time he appears on TV (and there will be plenty) will be like an ad for the Yankees.
          What difference does it make if he’s overpaid by 10M or so on his next deal?

    • Bo

      Again. why would they just drop one of their all time greats?

      Its business. and having jeter back every single yr and a part of the team for life means something.

      you really think a team that prides itself on tradition will F that up over a few mill???

      these arent the mets

  • http://forums.projectcovo.com/images/smilies/e6omir.gif Do Not Feed The Trolls!

    Jeter has a ton of leverage on his side unfortunately for the Yankees.

    No worthwhile prospect in the Yankee farm
    No great SS that will be a FA anytime soon.
    Hes the face of the franchise
    Hes still performing at an elite level

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      His hair smells like cinnamon

      • http://forums.projectcovo.com/images/smilies/e6omir.gif Do Not Feed The Trolls!

        his breath is as fresh as summer ham

        • Snakes on the mother effin plane

          he’s the captain on a franchise that has known very few

          • http://forums.projectcovo.com/images/smilies/e6omir.gif Do Not Feed The Trolls!

            Clark Griffith
            Kid Elberfeld
            Hal Chase
            Roger Peckinpaugh
            Babe Ruth
            Everett Scott
            Lou Gehrig
            Thurman Munson
            Graig Nettles
            Willie Randolph
            Ron Guidry
            Don Mattingly
            Derek Jeter

            = Not very few

            • Snakes on the mother effin plane

              Ever counted, over a similar period of time, the number on other clubs?

    • Stuckey

      I know what the meant (length of contract, higher chance of immediate steep decline), but still, “unfortunately for the Yankees” and “still performing at an elite level” get a chuckle out of me…

      Isn’t that a GOOD thing?? :-)

    • yankXfan

      He has the potential to break Rose’s record….

      190 hits per year for 8 years by one of the more durable players in baseball. Seriously, not one post about that.

      My guess is that Jeter is locked up through his 42nd year, at a mind blowing AAV (he’ll get a raise).

      Like their apparent desperation in locking Arod up way beyond his useful years, at a rate no other team would have touched, the Steinbrenner’s thinking: ‘All your record are belong to us’.

  • http://Youcan'tincreaseyourrange TLVP

    People here don’t realize that however beloved Derek and Mo are, most fans will forgive the Yankees for not going ballistic. If the Yankees offered 2 years and $20m how would that be so disrespectful of a 36 year old SS? It’ll probbaly be 3 years at $20m which is too much for years 2 and 3 but fair for year 1 which is the 3000 hits year. His marketability makes that an ok contract

    What does Derek it i 2 and 3 years at $20m? Hold out, retire and say it’s an insult? Sign elsewhere? Derek Jeter’s entire image depends on him being a Yankee. If he’s a Dodger (just an example) he’s no longer as special or marketable

    As long as he gets $20m/year he’ll have to accept it or he’ll look really stupid.

    Both sides nees to get this done, but Derek Jeter needs it more than the Yankees.

    • http://Youcan'tincreaseyourrange TLVP

      i obviously meant $20/y in the first paragraph as well

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        People are going apeshit that we didn’t OVERPAY to bring back Johnny Damon.

        I think you severly overestimate the reasoned, levelheaded, dispassionate intellect of the lumpen mass Yankee fan.

        • http://forums.projectcovo.com/images/smilies/e6omir.gif Do Not Feed The Trolls!

          All will be forgiven when the Yankees win #28

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            You’d like to think that, wouldn’t you?

            And yet, how long did the #27 high last for the irrational Yankee fan? Like, a week?

            • Snakes on the mother effin plane

              +1. I believe the subway platform behind the stadium would be torn down if we didn’t do “whatever was necessary” to take care of these two guyz.

            • http://forums.projectcovo.com/images/smilies/e6omir.gif Do Not Feed The Trolls!

              That was after the Yankees won though.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

                Um… the Yankees are winning #28 THIS YEAR, BABY.

                Hence, the Jeter/Mo negotiations will also be on the heels of back-to-back* titles. And batshit insane Yankee fans still will go on a murderous rampage if there’s even a shred of a sliver of a hint of a chance of either Jeter or Mo not ending up in pinstripes the next year, even if they ask for ridiculous money.

                ——–

                (*Full disclosure: It was really, really hard to not start typing “back-to-back-to-back AAU national champions”.)

            • Tom Zig

              They still want to bring back Joe Torre

        • http://Youcan'tincreaseyourrange TLVP

          There’s a big difference between not paying Damon $10m/y (which would have been too much of course) and Jeter $25m/y.

          $20m is a great salary in every possible way and Jeter would look like a jerk if he rejected it. I realize it won’t be 2 years because everyone wants it to be friendly and so it might go to 3 or 4.

          I think the smartest thing the Yankees can do is overpay for a short contract (so rather $22.5m/y for 2 years than $20m for 3 years) but it probably won’t happen that way.

    • Ed

      If the Yankees offered 2 years and $20m how would that be so disrespectful of a 36 year old SS?

      Being 36 matters a lot less than people here are making it out to. I’ll gladly take a 36 year old shortstop when he’s more productive than the majority of shortstops in the game are.

      Most mid-30’s shortstops aren’t that good, but the vast majority of shortstops don’t have a career year as good as Jeter’s 2009 season.

      If he’s a Dodger (just an example) he’s no longer as special or marketable

      No, but to take your example, the marketability of a Jeter & Torre reunion is still quite high. Also, Jeter’s 3,000th hit is worth a lot, regardless of the uniform. More as a Yankee, but still a lot elsewhere. The Rays were willing to pay for hit 3,000 from Boggs as an example.

      Both sides nees to get this done, but Derek Jeter needs it more than the Yankees.

      They need it equally. The team profits just as much from Jeter’s image as he does. The Yankees have made it clear that A-Rod breaking the all time home run record in a Yankee uniform is worth a lot of money. I’m sure they also realize the value of Jeter collecting 3,000 hits as a Yankee, and his moving past the all time greats on the Yankees career leaders lists.

      There’s also the issue that a large portion of female Yankee fans aren’t really Yankee fans, but Jeter fans. That’s a huge market they’d lose if Jeter left.

    • Bo

      In what world does it make business sense for the Yankees to antagonize two of their all time greats??

      Over what? A few million??

      They wont pinch pennies here.

  • Rose

    Here’s a question…

    With the significant decrease in a player playing his entire career for one team over the years…how much do you think it matters to some of them these days?

    If you have already made millions of dollars over your career…you’re much older and are a borderline Hall of Famer with one team only throughout your long career…do you take a few less dollars to keep your legacy alive with them? Or would you give up your unique place in history to get a few more bucks regardless of your decline?

    We saw a similar story to this with John Smoltz just last year.

    • Snakes on the mother effin plane

      There’s nothing borderline about John Smoltz and the HoF. He’s a first ballot lock, as is Jeter, as is Mo. In fact Mo may be the first unanimous 1st ballot vote. Can you imagine how pilloried the one or two asshole writers from San Diego or wherever would be? Jeez.

      As for the value a franchise sees…methinks it’s more like “nice” than a dollar figure, BUT I believe the PR issue is real.

      From a player’s standpoint, I think a $ value can easily be assigned. Endorsements for NY players >> endorsements for other-market players, all else being equal. My guess is Jete’s endorsement agents can put a rough $ estimate for him on what kind of hit he’d take signing with, say, the Dodgers.

      Then the Q becomes: does he care? Decreasing marginal utility of a dollar. The dude is uber loaded already. Maybe he really is “that guy” who cares about winning above all else, so long as he is treated reasonably (however he defines that).

      • Rose

        There’s nothing borderline about John Smoltz and the HoF.

        Obviously, I was mostly talking about Jorge Posada or another player like him.

        • Snakes on the mother effin plane

          Gotcha. The way your comment flowed it sounded like you were connecting the dots. Guess I was the one connecting the dots :)

      • http://Youcan'tincreaseyourrange TLVP

        You’re very wrong – many voters will leave him off for being a closer. If Rickey Henderson wasn’t unanimous there is no way Mo would be.

        Greg Maddux is my guess of the best chance of being a unanimous choice – smart pitcher, popular guy, no steroid taint, great stats.

        There is no one ese who has a shot in my mind

        Randy was probably too much of a jerk and got such a late start that he’ll probably miss out on some votes.

        Pedro didn’t win enough

        Clemens, Bonds, A-Rod, etc will never be unanimous because of steriods

        Junior had too long and too bad a declien

        Frank Thomas DH’d too much

        Jeter was obviously too overrated (unless he beats Pete Rose’s record, then he might be unanimous)

        • Rose

          I agree that Greg Maddux might be…but he never was a superstar. He had superstar numbers and statistically he was one of the ultimate superstars…but his personality and demeanor kept him from being bigger than the game.

          I believe that just because of this point…he may lose a vote or two.

          • bexarama

            Greg Maddux had a losing record in the playoffs!@1!!11!!!!

        • Snakes on the mother effin plane

          No one will leave him off for being a closer. One or two boneheads might leave him off for being a bonehead.

          No WAY is Maddux unanimous. Not even close (and by close I mean < 10 guys leaving him off the ballot).

          • Snakes on the mother effin plane

            Hopefully obvious but I mean “them” – the writers – being boneheads. Not Mo!

          • bexarama

            I don’t think he’ll be unanimous, but very popular, unquestionably dominant pitchers tend to get the most votes. There isn’t really a mark on Maddux’s record other than that he never pitched in the AL and it’d be silly to assume he’d be, like, a BAD pitcher there.

            Out of the guys who will or definitely should make it to the HoF but who aren’t eligible yet (Randy, Pedro, Bonds, Pujols unless something crazy happens in the next couple of years, Jeter, Mo, A-Rod, Griffey, Ichiro, Chipper, Clemens, Smoltz, Ivan Rodriguez, Manny, Vladdy, Schilling, Moose, Glavine, Casey Kelly ;) …….), I can easily see him getting the most votes and getting close to Seaver’s percentage total.

        • yankXfan

          If Rickey Henderson wasn’t unanimous

          Many of you young whippersnappers have no idea what a pain in the ass Rickey was when playing. There’s a good reason he wound up playing for ten teams. I was actually surprised he received so many votes because I thought for sure that some would just not vote for him. The dude had a real bad ‘tude.

          In that same light, some of you have no idea how average Blyleven was. I did a double-take when the argument of his HOF credentials first started to circulate and I saw the numbers he compiled. Numbers: Wow; Blyleven: meh.

  • Rob S.

    I don’t think Hank said anything wrong here. Derek Jeter is the face of the franchise. He is the team captain. He is almost universally beloved by Yankee fans. He is a first ballot hall of famer and will be the first Yankee with 3000 hits. You cannot overpay Derek Jeter, it’s just not possible.

  • Rob S.

    BTW let’s not get hung up on this yankees budget thing. just because they’re not willing to overpay Johnny Damon doesn’t mean the Yanks are getting cheap on us. They are just holding the line because of how much they spent last year and how much they’re likely to spend next year.

  • http://twitter.com/riddering Riddering

    Eh, Hank’s comments aren’t surprising or hurtful to the Yankee organization’s position when Jeter’s current contract expires. It’s not like he said he wanted to make Jeter the highest paid player in the league. He just said what is so obvious that even John Sterling could predict it.

  • mryankee

    I wonder what Jeter would get on the open market. Clearly he would probably at best get two maybe three years and no more than 10 mill per. The way the market seems at this point for players n their mid to late thirties. I would think three years at 12 would be fair.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera are both significant statistical outliers. This makes them luxury items.

      They won’t at all be priced similarly to other “players in their mid to late thirties”.

      3 years at 12M per is a pipedream.

      • mryankee

        Do you think Derek or Mo thinks they really need to make outlandish money at this point? Does 50 million really mean more than 36 million? I think if Dj or Mo looked at the current economy and were willing to accept less that would only enhance their reputations.

        • Tom Zig

          You can buy a whole lot more shit with 50 mil than 36

        • Slugger27

          if their reputations were enhanced any further, theyd be on crosses in sanctuaries

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          Does 50 million really mean more than 36 million?

          Is it true that if you don’t “use it”, you “lose it”?

      • Snakes on the mother effin plane

        zachary.

    • Slugger27

      no more than 10 mil???

      the lowest WAR hes had in his career is 3.4, and that was largely due to a wrist injury… not to mention hes gonna get hit 3,000

      i know youre a troll and you just like stirring things, but at least make SOME sense in your arguments like alex gonzalez tried to

      • mryankee

        So there are a lot of 36 year olds getting 10 mill or more per year contracts. So your one of the “pay Dj whatever he wants crowd? and I am a troll. If you think someone is insulted about a three year 12 million contract maybe your the problem as opposed to me.

        • Slugger27

          So there are a lot of 36 year olds getting 10 mill or more per year contracts

          derek jeter isnt like “a lot of 36 year olds” … hes a 5 win player annually at a premium position that will be getting his 3,000th hit

          So your one of the “pay Dj whatever he wants crowd? and I am a troll.

          yes to the first one, and a fairly certain yes to the second one

          If you think someone is insulted about a three year 12 million contract maybe your the problem as opposed to me.

          derek jeter will be insulted at a 12M salary offer… if u disagree, us continuing this argument is a waste of time and u wont get responded to, as youre not subtle enough of a troll to be long-term entertainment

  • Rose

    I’m not at all concerned with what Derek Jeter gets in the off season…

    I am, however, slightly concerned interested in what Mariano Rivera is going to receive for a contract.

  • ray-ray

    I dont remember the exact details,but i believe george brett had a similar situation at the tail end of his career and,if i’m correct,he signed some kind of personal services contract combined with his salary as a player.This seems like a good way to pay a reasonable amount,say 4yrs at 15mil per with mutual options if he can continue to perform at a high level and reward him with a lifetime personal service contract,pre-negotiated that will kick in at his retirement,and make this the last time that both parties have to deal with this type of sensitive sitiuation!

    • Snakes on the mother effin plane

      Yeah maybe they could sell 3-4/15 + 20/2 for a personal services contract. So that’s 85 – 100 all in.

  • Kiko Jones

    It may not be a popular position but I liked it when Hank was in charge. Yeah, he goofed on the A-Rod deal, but he does remind me of The Boss, as opposed to Hal who is the living embodiment of the son-of-the-owner stereotype: stiff, not too well versed on the subject at hand, and over his head. At least that’s how he comes across.

    As for Jeter’s future in pinstripes, the Yankees will surely overpay for him. No question. And then, the excuse of having a budget to contend with will be clearly revealed as the nonsense it is.

    • JMK the Overshare’s Mystique and Aura

      Show me an example of where Hal appears stiff, obtuse, and overwhelmed?

      • Bo

        Apparently Hal needs to smoke a cigarette and hold a scotch and say outlandish things.

      • Kiko Jones

        Um, almost always. Look it up.

  • currambayankees

    Love Jeter, Mo and Posada but I hope the Yankees remember the old adage “It’s better to let them go a year too early then a year too late.” I think every single Yankees fan loves these guys and would love to have them around forever but it’s not possible and these 3 are getting to the point in their career where their skills will start to diminish. Jeter got his pay day his last contract lest we forget he got 189mil contract.

  • TopChuckie

    The question IS NOT will Jeter be back, that is about as given as anything in sports. The question is will it be one in which both sides are realistic about what he is actually worth, or will he be one to try to take advantage of the fact the Yankees MUST resign him, so he can seek the moon. This is where I may be naive, but I think Jeter could be reasonable, “just continue to pay me at least what I’m making and I’m good.” He doesn’t seem like the kind of guy who has to be the highest paid player, he know he’s the most beloved and appreciated Yankee, I just don’t think he needs dollars to prove it when he knows it’s not really for the good of the team to take advantage of the situation.

  • Bo

    The contract isnt the issue with Jeter.

    It’s where he plays that is the issue.

  • Hughesus Christo

    None of your “rules” or “reason” apply to Jeter.

    They probably already have a handshake deal with him (if not more).

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