Mar
04

Almost trading Bernie Williams again and again

By


AP Photo/Kathy Willens

Bernie Williams hasn’t played in a regular season game for the Yankees since Oct. 1, 2006. He went 1 for 1 as a pinch hitter in Game 162, and then played in just one game during the ALDS. He knew he was nearing the end of his career, but he couldn’t convince the Yanks to give him a guaranteed deal. The team offered to invite him to Spring Training, and Bernie went home to nurse his wounded pride instead.

Now, three full seasons removed from his last game as a Major Leaguer, Bernie still feels the itch, and when he showed up at George M. Steinbrenner Field yesterday, he spoke with reporters about coming to grips with his forced retirement. “Someone said it takes a player three to five years to get used to not playing,” Williams said. “I’m in my fourth year now, so I’m right between there. I miss it, but I like what I’m doing.”

Bernie is 41, but he still thinks about coming back. “I think mentally I try not to really think about that too much,” he said. “I go through periods of time within the past couple of years in which I go back and forth, and this doesn’t help, being here and saying hi to the guys. It obviously brings a lot of the old feelings back, but I know that I’m doing something worthwhile in another field. Any way that I look at it, I can’t lose. If I come back, that would be great. But if I don’t, it’s just a great opportunity to do something different and try to excel at it.”

As much as he may want to rejoin the Majors, Bernie’s time has passed. I hated seeing Bernie go fading away as he did, and it still pains me to hear my one-time favorite talk about wanting to come back. He tried that during the WBC in 2009 and ended up with a quad injury. It was an ignoble end, to say the least.

But what’s done is done. Instead of dwelling on Bernie’s tortured present, let’s look at his distant past. As a top Yankee prospect in the late 1980s and early 1990s, Bernie was subject of more trade rumors than we could count. Scouts knew he would be good, but they couldn’t foresee his peak from 1997-2001 when he hit .325/.411/.548 and led the Yanks to four World Series berths. And so into the Wayback Machine we go.

Would you, in 1989, have traded Bernie Williams for Jeff Blauser? That’s what the Braves wanted to do. Blauser, then a highly-coveted 22-year-old, had just made his Major League debut and would go on to put up serviceable career numbers. He hit .262/.354/.406 and twice made the All-Star team. A deal was nearly in place that may or may not have involved Bernie.

Here’s a more intriguing rumor: What about Barry Bonds and Bobby Bonilla for Bernie Williams, Kevin Maas, Roberto Kelly Jesse Barfield and a pitcher? It’s a bit tougher to say “no” to Bonds. The Yanks maybe could have landed Bonds and Bonilla in a deal with Gerald Williams instead of Bernie. A Bonds/Bernie outfield would have been a sight to see in the late 1990s.

Perhaps something a little more recent would give us a taste of life almost without Bernie. The Yanks and Bernie nearly split up in 1998 when the team moved on Albert Belle after Bernie’s contract demands grew too rich for their tastes, but that almost-divorce, rescued on Thanksgiving Eve, had its origins in the 1997 off-season. With Bernie nearing free agency and the Yanks not in love with their enigmatic almost-superstar, the team looked to trade him that winter and nearly did so to the Tigers. The deal would have sent Roberto Duran and Mike Drumright, Detroit’s number one pick in 1995, to the Bronx for Bernie.

Why the deal was scuttled remains a mystery. Murray Chass speculated that (1) George quashed a deal then-GM Bob Watson negotiated on his own; (2) other baseball advisers didn’t feel the Yanks were getting enough back from the Tigers; or (3) it was a negotiating ploy to get Bernie to lower his demands on the Yankees. No matter the reason, it would have been a disastrous trade for the Yanks. Drumright never reached the majors and today works in construction in Wichita, Kansas.

So Bernie remained that ever-elusive Yankee for Life®. He’s trying to give up the sport, but it just keeps sucking him in. Even if his words make me wince today, I, for one, am quite relieved the Yanks never traded him as they often considered doing.

Categories : Days of Yore
  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a The Large Sample Size

    (sh$#%s pants at idea of angering Bernie by trading him)

    • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

      Teh fear!!11!!1

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a The Large Sample Size

        There’s a legitimate chance of Bernie stabbing the f#$% out of Ben for writing this article. I fear for Ben’s safety now.

        Ben, you should find a safe house or stay with a relative or something. Lay low for a while, because you’re probably wanted by Bernie to be murdered.

        • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

          I just hope he has a panic room. But of course Bernie would smell the fear and bust down some walls until he found Ben curled up in a corner, shaking.

  • http://none Jake

    Darren Lewis was a George phone call away.
    We can thank Stick for saving us there.

  • Rick in Boston

    Bonds/Bernie/insert RF here?

    That would have been great. True, no Paul O’Neill, but Bonds >>>>>>>>>>>>> O’Neill.

    • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

      Bonds cheated, therefore O’Neill>>>>>>Bonds.

      /Jake’d

      • http://none Jake

        Both are not getting into the Hall.

        Opinion, or fact?

        • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

          So everyone who isn’t a Hall of Famer were equal players?

          • http://none Jake

            Um, no. Bonds isn’t getting in because his career isn’t real. O’Neill isn’t getting in because he’s not a HOFer.

            One, at least, has morals.

            • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

              What part of “stop” don’t you understand? As I said over an hour ago, stop.

            • WIlliam

              Bond was an awesome player. he took steroids, but that didn’t make hiim go from above average to legendary. Look at Arod’s texas years on steroids. They aren’t that much better than his other years. I fully beleive bonds would have been in the late 600′s to early 700′s on homers w/o steroids. It was a long time ago, and we can’t judge him by it. Should Gherig and Ruth not count since there were no blacks in the league at the time? No. Arod took steroids for 3 years, is he not a HOF’er. The steroid era will only be over when people like you stop throwing it into everyone’s face.

        • pat

          Ergo: Ruth = Rice

        • Jack

          Opinion. Bonds will get in at some point.

    • The Evil Umpire

      O’Neill for an infant IPK and toddler Melky.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a The Large Sample Size

        Well played.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Barry’s last three years in Pittsburgh:

      .301-.424-.566, averaged 31 HR and 45 SB per. 225-327 K/BB.

      He was a lefty Albert Pujols that stole bases.

      • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

        And provided that at a more valuable position than 1B.

      • Rick in Boston

        That line is why Bonds would have been a Hall of Famer even without his enhanced home run seasons.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a The Large Sample Size

          Fun Fact: In Barry Bonds’s 22 year ML career from 1986-2007 he had only five seasons where his OBP was lower than .400.

          Four of those five seasons were in the 1980s, the first four years of his career.

        • http://none Jake

          How do any of us know when he started taking steroids?

          Maybe he started taking a certain kind of steroid in 1993,
          but maybe he was on something else in 89?

          • andrew

            You’re right. He may have been on steroids. So may have Bernie, O’neill, Tino, and any other yankee.

            • http://none Jake

              My only point is that once it’s confirmed, you don’t get a second chance to tell the truth.

              See Big Mac.

              You lie once. No HOF. Thank GOD for the voters.

              • http://iheartrerun.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/rerun.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                There is no God. Opinion, or fact?

                • http://none Jake

                  Why not stick to the topic?

                • http://iheartrerun.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/rerun.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  That is the literally the first good point you’ve made in any of your comments at RAB.

                  You are awful. (That, on the other hand, was the latest in a long line of good points made by me at RAB.)

                  I’m calling for a total commenting black-out on Jake. I pledge to do my part and never again respond to one of his comments, and I hope you’ll all do the same. I’m convinced this is either Bo or just some other person who is either (a) insane and/or (b) trying to hijack and ruin the conversations here, and I say we just act like he’s not here.

                • http://twitter.com/tafkasic the artist formerly known as (sic)

                  I’m fine with this, but why not do the same to Bo? Everyone always responds to his shit, which results in more hijacked/ruined threads than anything else.

                  Ignore the trolls. It’s the most basic rule of Internetting.

                • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

                  (That, on the other hand, was the latest in a long line of good points made by me at RAB.)

                  I enjoyed that.

                  And I agree on the black-out, I will do my part.

                • http://iheartrerun.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/rerun.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  In my opinion Bo isn’t quite as bad as this guy, but I’m fine with that suggestion.

                • http://twitter.com/tafkasic the artist formerly known as (sic)

                  I emailed Mike about this, but this is a situation in which a nice, selective application of the banhammer would do a whole lotta good.

                • http://iheartrerun.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/rerun.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  That’s up to the RABbis and I understand their hesitance to ban commenters who don’t openly break or flout the rules. I say we just do our part by completely ignoring this guy (and others like him).

                  Commence: RAB Operation Shutdown.

                • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

                  Derek Bell reference. Love it.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a The Large Sample Size

                  Commence: RAB Operation Shutdown.

                  I’m in.

                  Sincerely,
                  Derek Bell

                • WIlliam

                  I’m in.

        • Thomas

          I am going to disagree with that statement for 2 reasons (1 stupid and 1 better).

          1. He may have been on steroids at that point and we just don’t know it (not that I really give a shit, just because you took steroids doesn’t mean you should be in the HOF).

          2. Bonds numbers from 1986-92 (Pit years) .275/.380/.503 averaging 25 HR and 79 RBIs with an OPS+ 147

          Similar players from similar years over there first 7 seasons

          Player A .299/.373/.499 22HR 89RBIs OPS+ 145 (played 1B)
          Player B .260/.358/.520 31HR 89RBIs OPS+ 146 (played RF)
          Player C 119-46 2.82ERA averaged 218IP ERA+ 125 WHIP 1.136 8.2K/9 3.10K/BB

          Now Bonds was better than players A, B, and C, but not by much of a margin. However, Will Clark, Darryl Strawberry, and Dwight Gooden will never sniff the HOF.

          What I am saying is during his Pittsburgh years Bonds was spectacular. However, if you throw out his entire career after that point, he isn’t much better than Clark, Strawberry, and Gooden and that is not good enough for the HOF. You can assume Bonds would have continued his dominance, but you would have to assume that Clark, Strawberry, and Gooden would have continued theirs as well, which obviously didn’t happen.

          PS With his career over I am 100% behind Bonds going to the HOF.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a The Large Sample Size

        Or, Barry’s last three years in Pittsburgh:

        176, 160, 205 in wRC+

      • http://none Jake

        He was also hated by all of his teammates.
        Not disliked, but hated.

        • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

          Ty Cobb stabbed a guy.

        • http://iheartrerun.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/rerun.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          So was Reggie Jackson.

          • http://none Jake

            Right guys. Barry Bonds would have made a great Yankee. Terrific idea. Well done.

            Who needs Paul O’Neill?

            What did he ever do?

            • http://twitter.com/tafkasic the artist formerly known as (sic)

              …Paul, is that you?

            • http://www.thechuckknoblog.com/ JobaWockeeZ

              Caused the deaths of many water coolers.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a The Large Sample Size

                Was white.

            • bexarama

              got really angry over a bunch of called strike threes

              Bonds would have been a great Yankee because he was a great player. Simple as that.

              • http://none Jake

                Was Gary Sheffield a “great Yankee”

                Chemistry plays a part in winning, too.

                • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

                  This conversation is really getting tiring. I’d ask you all to just let it drop or else I’m going to close comments here for a bit.

            • WIlliam

              I’m gonna break the pledge for just one final comment. ARE YOU TELLING ME YOU THINK PAUL O’NEIL WAS MORE VALUABLE TO THE YANKEES THEN BARRY BONDS WOULD HAVE BEEN IF HE HAD BEEN A YANKEES. Wow, that took stupidity to a whole new level. I suppose Alex Rodriguez is less valuable than Posada right? Because Arod was a cheater and was disliked, and Posada is a true yakee?

          • steve s

            You are not entirely correct about Reggie. Among his A’s teammates that he came up with he is still part of a band of brothers; among his Yank teammates I would agree he was (and still is) mostly hated (and vice versa) but he picked the right Yankee guys to love him; the Steinbrenner family.

            • http://iheartrerun.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/rerun.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

              I was referring to his Yankees teammates.

        • Rick in Boston

          I bet you could take a look at every Hall of Famer and find at least one teammate who hated them. Think the Giants players really hated Bonds when he carried them to the World Series?

          • ROBTEN

            FUN FACT: Hall-of-Fame pitcher William “Candy” Cummings (October 18, 1848 – May 16, 1924) was so named because he liked to steal chocolate bars from orphans. It is also said that he first invented the curveball in order to hit a group of nuns he noticed sitting in the front row.

            [Editor's Note: This "fun fact" is almost certainly entirely false.]

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a The Large Sample Size

    What about Barry Bonds and Bobby Bonilla for Bernie Williams, Kevin Maas, Roberto Kelly Jesse Barfield and a pitcher?

    Yes please.

    The Yanks maybe could have landed Bonds and Bonilla in a deal with Gerald Williams instead of Bernie.

    Hmmmm, that’s tougher. Trading away Feared Williams is one thing… the Iceman is a whole different story. I’ll have to think about that for a while.

    (Yes, I’m joking. Please don’t freak the hell out.)

    • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

      I always thought Williams and Williams would replace the M&M boys in Yankee lore, but Bernie just couldn’t hold up his end of the bargain.

      (I may or may not be joking, feel free to freak the hell out.)

    • http://none Jake

      Bonilla played in NY. How did that go?

      • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

        Ehhh, I think it’s more the Bonds part that is exciting. Any time you can get one of the best 5 players of all time, it’s a good thing for your team.

        • andrew

          Steve, your logic is undeniable.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a The Large Sample Size

            Pretty much.

            Would I put up with the mediocrity of Bobby Bonilla’s career in order to have the awesomeness of Barry Bonds’s career?

            Hells to the yes.

      • keith

        what is this i dont even

      • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

        And Bonilla in NY put up a 127 OPS+. Not too shabby.

        • http://none Jake

          How old are you? Did you ever see Bonilla play in NY?

          • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

            I’m 7.

            I don’t need to see anything, I can see his stats. He was a productive offensive player during his time in NY. In fact, his productiong offensively is every similar to Paul O’Neill’s with the Yankees.

            • http://none Jake

              Steve H, you may never have been more wrong in your life.

              Bonilla was one of the worst signings the Mets ever made. He was one of the worst signings of baseball team at the time.

              The guy was a DH playing in the National League.
              He was worse than Damon in the outfield.

              And that was in his prime.

              But keep talking stat guy.

              Was Vince Coleman great, too?

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a The Large Sample Size

                Bobby Bonilla, NYM: .270/.356/.495 (127+)
                Paul O’Neill, NYY: .303/.377/.492 (125+)

                Your mind: BLOWN.

                • http://none Jake

                  That’s great.

                  Compare Bobby Bonilla to Paul O’Neill.

                  BUT, I’m the crazy one. LOL.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a The Large Sample Size

                  I love Paul O’Neill. He was a great player and is one of my favorite Yankees ever.

                  Having said that, Paulie is one of the most overrated players in recent memory.

                • http://none Jake

                  Um, Overrated?

                  Try Bobby Bonilla.

                • Frigidevil

                  Let me settle this debate once and for all, for O’Neill was my favorite player and I owned a Bonilla glove.

                  Paulie-emotional leader, hero to white people in NY, came up big in a few situations so now he is second only to Mo.

                  Bonilla-DIDNT LIVE UP TO HIS PIRATE GREATNESS IN NY SO HE IS A FAILURE!!!

                  …but they probably have the same career if either were on an average team.

                • http://none Jake

                  You can say this about Bonilla in right field:
                  He gave you a thrill.

      • andrew

        You’re starting to sound like Bo.

        • http://iheartrerun.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/rerun.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          “You’re starting to sound like Bo.”

          (fixed)

          • http://none Jake

            No, I’m not.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a The Large Sample Size

              I concur, Jake is clearly not Bo.

              Jake knows how to use apostrophes correctly.

              There, I said something nice about Jake.

          • http://enternight.mlblogs.com Ana

            Mr. Mondesi:
            I actually just laughed so loudly at that that my roommate woke up.

  • JohnC

    Maybe George couldn’t stand the thought of Frank Costanza yelling in his ear. “HOW COULD YOU TRADE BERNIE WILLIAMS????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • A.D.

    I remember the near Belle for Bernie swap, boy would have that ended poorly.

    • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

      Imagine teh fear!!11!!! when discussing those two. They are absoutely two of the most feared players of all time.

    • JohnC

      Yikes! NY media would have eaten Belle up. He would have been taking swings at half the reporters in the clubhouse after a bad game.

      • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

        He would have been taking swings at half the reporters in the clubhouse after a bad game.

        You say that like it’s a bad thing.

      • Rick in Boston

        You say that like it’s a bad thing.

        • Mike Pop

          love how both of you said this at same time.

          • http://www.facebook.com/adorador Ray Fuego

            awww thats so cute lol ha ha

      • A.D.

        Well yeah, for 2 years before he was forced out of the game from a degenerative hip, but didn’t retire.

  • bennyprofane

    Chances the Yankees retire Bernie’s number or honor him in any way outside of old timer’s day, i.e., “Bernie Williams Day”, in the next five years?

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a The Large Sample Size

      Hmmm, good question.

      I’ll say… 30% chance he gets his number retired. It should be higher than that, IMHO, but Bernie won’t get into the Hall, and that will work against him.

      There will also fans who will argue that he shouldn’t get his number retired if Paul O’Neill isn’t getting his number retired, despite the fact that Bernie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paulie, but that sentiment may work against him as well.

      Bernie should go in Monument Park, though. He was that good.

      • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

        but Bernie won’t get into the Hall

        Not with that attitude he won’t.

        Push the propoganda machine, he’ll get there.

      • http://none Jake

        They retired Mattingly’s.
        They should retire Bernie’s.

        While they’re at it, Paul O’Neill was a great Yankee.
        They should show him some respect.

        • http://twitter.com/tafkasic the artist formerly known as (sic)

          “They should show him some respect.”

          What? No. They shouldn’t.

          • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

            Actutally they already have. To the tune of $47 million.

            • http://twitter.com/tafkasic the artist formerly known as (sic)

              Yes, exactly.

          • http://none Jake

            Since you guys love to read off stats, instead of
            going by actually watching, here ya go. Deny this.

            Mattingly – 2153 hits, 222 HR, 1099 RBI.
            O’Neill – 2105 hits, 281 HR, 1269 RBI.

            Not saying one is better than the other, but their stats are very close.

            Go ahead, let’s see a really sarcastic senseless response.

            • bexarama

              these stats = not really the stats people like to use when comparing players

              • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

                Nor did O’neill compile those as a Yankee. And since the discussion is about Paul O’Neill the Yankee, I’m not sure why his Reds numbers are relevant.

                It’s like saying the Mets should retire Willie Mays’ number because he hit 660 HR’s.*

                *(yes, it’s extreme, I know)

              • http://none Jake

                Home runs and RBI don’t apply?

                bexarama, please teach me something.

                I was always under the impression that Don Mattingly was well on his to Hall after incredible season from 84-89, but then after he hurt his back, he became JT Snow.

                But, it seems that I’ve been wrong so many times here :)

                • bexarama

                  HRs are cool, sure. Not the be-all-end-all, but cool. RBI are bullsh-t. They’re pretty much completely dependent on your team. You could have the same batting stats at exactly the same spot in the order and if you play for the Yankees, you’ll probably have a lot more RBI than if you play for the Royals.

                  Also, as Steve H. said, what do O’Neill’s numbers as a Red have anything to do with why we should retire his number as a Yankee?

                  And yeah, Mattingly got really unlucky hurting his back.

                • bexarama

                  Also, since you seem to like HR and RBI so much, A-Rod generally has more HR and RBI every year than Jeter does. Heck, he had more HR and RBI from last year when he missed a good chunk of the season. Can that make A-Rod a “true Yankee” to you? Why do I think you’re gonna say no?

                • http://none Jake

                  I’m sorry, bex, and I know plenty of sportswriters personally who don’t think it’s fair that a guy like Mattingly, who played it straight, are left out in the cold, because Mac and Co found a way to hit the ball farther.

                  How I know this to be true? Because when they had the chance to vote Mac in, they chose not to.

                  Maybe things will change over time. It’s possible that more of our favorite Yankees will turn out to have been cheaters, too.

                  Do you else had more home runs than Jeter? Nomar and Miggy. And, they were doing it at a time when number junkies thought Jeter was the 4th best SS in the game, and overrated.

              • rbizzler

                Plus he is giving credit to O’Neill for his time spent with the Reds. His stats with just the Yankees fall well short of what Donnie put up over the course of his career.

                I will say that O’Neill does outscore Donnie in TW+ (True Warrior Scale), so he’s got that going for him. I mean, Donnie was a disrespectful hippie with sideburns while O’Neill once went 2 for 3 with a carpenter nail embedded in his eye. The real outrageous part of the story is that he hammered the nail into his own eye because he heard that would make him a better player.

                What a guy.

                • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

                  ::golf clap::

                • http://none Jake

                  You’re right. O’Neill’s time with the Reds isn’t on the table. That’s a HOF argument. Not a Yankee retired number argument.

                  My bad if I confused the two.

            • king of fruitless hypotheticals

              ok here:

              you can support an argument with statistics but being a jerk doesnt win you any friends nor does it draw people to your side even when you’re right.

              • http://none Jake

                I’m the jerk. I’m not calling anyone here an “idiot”

                (Even after reading Bobby Bonilla/ Paul O’Neill comparisons)

        • andrew

          O’Neill was a very good player on a bunch of very good teams. Played above average baseball for nearly a decade in NY, but he’s not an all time great. He was a great player, a great contributor, but not everyone who contributes to a few championships should be retired.

          • http://none Jake

            They retired Mattingly’s number.
            Was he so much better than Bernie and O’Neill?

            • Hughesus Christo

              Bernie, yes. O’Neill, YES.

              • http://none Jake

                For 5 years Mattingly was as good anyone.

                But if 5 years is worthy of getting your number retired, O’Neill and Williams, even without slam dunk HOF careers, have a case.

        • http://www.thechuckknoblog.com/ JobaWockeeZ

          Of course the dynasty true Yankees should all be retired. From Scotty Bro to David Cone let them ALL be retired for their trueish Yankeeness.

          And while we’re at it let’s trade A-Rod and Cano for not being true Yankees.

          • Mike Pop

            I think they should just forget A-Rod played for the Yankees all together once his contract is up. We can forget about the multiple rings too.

            • http://none Jake

              Arod has mutltiple rings?

              • Mike Pop

                I’m assuming they will win at least one more in the remaining 8 years left on his deal.

            • http://none Jake

              I wish I could forget. He is a disgrace to the Yankees, and to the game.

              • bexarama

                I think I love you (but what am I so afraid of?).

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                What about Andy Pettitte?

                • http://none Jake

                  That was painful.

                • bexarama

                  Andy Pettitte is not a disgrace to anything. You take that back!

                  (I know what you’re doing here.)

                • http://none Jake

                  Bex, sorry, but it’s not crazy to look at juicers differently.

                  If I hold it against Bonds and Mac, Arod and Pettitte are guilty, too.

                  Whether you love them or not, like them or not, their careers are not looked at the same anymore.

                • http://none Jake

                  What would have happened if in 1990 Don Mattingly took steroids, went on a tear, and started hitting monster upper deck home runs routinely?

                  And then, years later, we discovered that he cheated? He wouldn’t be voted into the Hall.

                  Don Mattingly, sadly, wasn’t healthy enough to make the Hall, but at least all of his accomplishments came to him naturally, and he can be proud of that.

                  So can the fans.

          • http://twitter.com/tafkasic the artist formerly known as (sic)

            And while we’re at it let’s trade A-Rod and Cano for not being true Yankees.

            Also for a lack of whiteness. But that may go without saying.

            • http://none Jake

              bring race into it. Well done.

    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

      If Paul O’Neill’s number is retired due to fan vehemence, Bernie’s should be too. He was, after all, the better of the two outfielders and Gold Glove defense at a premium position for a number of years.

      • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

        And played 822 more games with the Yankees.

  • Mike Pop

    Oh man, I would have loved to see Bonds play for the Yankees. But, gotta be happy with how the last 15 years have turned out if you’re a Yankees fan.

    • http://none Jake

      No way man. I’d trade 4 championships for amazing juiced up stats.

      Why wouldn’t you?

      • http://www.thechuckknoblog.com/ JobaWockeeZ

        I would too because those juiced up amazing stats Bonds would give would lead to more than 4 championships.

        Your mind. Blown.

        • http://none Jake

          Really.

          Bonds has how many rings?

          • Mike Pop

            How many teams has Bonds played on that were similar to that of the late 90′s Yankees teams?

            • http://none Jake

              Check out his post season numbers in Pittsburgh.

              HE was the reason they lost.

              Arodesque.

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                You’re an idiot. Go root for the Mets if A-Rod and Cano offend you so.

                • http://none Jake

                  You’re starting to hurt my feelings.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                  Funny, you’ve hurt the feelings of logic and reason all thread long.

                • http://none Jake

                  So you’re saying I’m not entitled to my opinion?

                • Jack

                  No, he is not. Noone has said that anywhere.

      • Mike Pop

        Nah, cause those 4 championships are already done and guaranteed. Bonds being on the Yankees would of been epic but we have no idea how it would turn out. Probably very similar results. Dude was amazing. Would of been fun to watch him everyday I would think. Greatness.

  • pat

    And your fans….they cried like babies as the GM tried to trade Bernie, again and again…. and again.

    /Commodus’d

    • Mike Pop

      I laughed.

  • bexarama

    this thread: Jake’d

    Though the ignoring thing isn’t a bad idea.

    • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

      It really has to be done. At least alex gonzalez was fun.

      • bexarama

        I agree.

        …after this thread.

        • http://twitter.com/tafkasic the artist formerly known as (sic)

          You’re only making it worse by continuing to respond.

          • andrew

            … but it’s so hard not to respond!!!! I read the posts and i need people to hold my fingers back from the keyboard while they scream “hold me back!” hold me back!!”

            • bexarama

              haha! This, pretty much.

              But I stopped.

    • ROBTEN

      I think “Jake” is a pale attempt at creating another “Alex Gonzalez”. He will, of course, deny it in response to this post, but anyone who reads here regularly will know what kind of response they would receive if they posted similar comments.

      The tip-off, at least for me, is comparing anyone to Mattingly. The Mattingly-Williams discussions went on for some time and would be known to anyone who reads RAB on a regular basis. To start comparing Mattingly to O’Neill given this past history says to me that this is someone who is either trying to be funny or simply wants to provoke a response.

      • Rick in Boston

        It does remind me of one of TSJC’s biggest fans.

      • WIlliam

        Hi, I’ve only been here for 4 months, so i got to ask, who’s alex gonzalez?

        • Brett Gardner’s Quadriceps

          Ask Jose.

  • rbizzler

    I find myself cringing a bit when Bernie still talks about coming back. I am all for players making their own decisions when it comes to retirement, and if Bernie wanted (or wants) to keep playing, I don’t think that it would sully his legacy as a Yankee if he played a few years in another org. I just find it a bit sad that Bernie couldn’t see that his skills had diminished to the point where he couldn’t be a contributor on the Yanks considering their roster construction and needs.

    That being said, I am all for Bernie Williams Day and retiring the #51. While the team is reaching the saturation point on retired numbers, Bernie deserves the honor as being an excellent player and an icon (yes, I know this is an intangible) during the mini-dynasty years.

    Plus, he plays some badass elevator music on the guitar.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a The Large Sample Size

      FACT: Feared Williams regularly uses an axe. FACT.

  • Opus

    Don’t forget about the legendary Bernie & Leyritz for Bonds trade that George Costanza conceived back in ’96. He also figured out a way to get Griffey as well (and not have to give up much), but he was presumed dead and lost out on being the assistant GM.