Exercising patience with Curtis Granderson
By
Photo credit: Ross D. Franklin/AP
It’s the type of play that, no matter how solidly you field your position, will incite anger in fans. On the whole Curtis Granderson has played a solid center field this season. He misplays some batted balls, but no outfielder gets them all. But to bobble the ball — twice — on a hit to shallow center when the runner on second, for some reason, doesn’t initially try to score, will incite a few Bronx Cheers. Granderson made up for it to some degree, picking up two hits off Cliff Lee, but for the most part the beginning of his Yankees tenure hasn’t gotten off to the start that anyone had hoped.
When the Yankees acquired Granderson in December they didn’t think they had traded for the player whose OBP sat at a meager .327 in 2009. Rather, they thought they were acquiring a player who, like Nick Swisher, was better than his poor previous season indicated. The problem did look fixable. Granderson hit the ball on the ground at a rate far below his career norms, leading to many outs in the air. A few of those fly balls cleared the fence, which somewhat mitigated his poor season, but in order to turn things around he’d have to rediscover the approach that made him one of the top center fielders in the AL in 2007 and 2008.
So far this season we’ve yet to see Granderson make any sort of transformation. His groundball rate, in fact, sits at the exact spot it did last year, 29.5 percent. For a player with speed, this doesn’t sound like an optimal rate. His line drive rate is up three points, but he hasn’t seen much benefit from it: his BABIP sits just five points above last year. His offensive stats are almost identical to last year, too. While his OBP and ISO sit a tick lower, offense is down league-wide. Granderson’s wRC+ sits at the same mark, 107, as it did last season. The Yankees, it would appear, did acquire the player who experienced a bad year in 2009.
The season is still young, though, especially for Granderson, who missed almost all of May with a strained groin. There is still plenty of time for him to turn it around. Yet at this point that seems like an overly optimistic stance. Maybe if Granderson were doing the things that made him successful in 2007 and 2008 it would be a different story. But given his batted ball and plate discipline data, plus the eyeball observation, it doesn’t seem like there has been much change. There’s a good chance that we’re stuck with the 2009 version of Granderson.
This isn’t to say that he’ll be like this for the duration of his contract. Kevin Long is a world-class hitting coach and I’m confident that consistent work with Granderson can bring positive results. I’m just more skeptical than ever that it will happen this year. At one point I was excited at his results after returning from the injury, but they’re returned to a disappointing level. He has hit for a ton more power, which is a huge plus, but he’s still at .247/.321/.485 since May 28. That’s not the Granderson the Yankees intended to acquire. That was the risk, though. I’ve been as optimistic as anyone about the guy, but at this point, nearly half way through the season and with little to no discernible change in his approach, I’m no longer so sure.
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The Mason Williams Watch
This will end badly.
/Bretbaiting?
For the first time in my life, I’m starting to miss Brett Favre. At least that guy knew how to have fun, just throw the ol’ ball around out there.
Bret seems like one of those people who hides his identity behind an ambiguous handle – while strategically making vague and idiotic points – hiding his true agenda and hatred for the Yankees the whole time…only to disappear once he is ousted.
His plan, while never really having any substance, has been ultimately foiled so we may very well never see him again.
Rose that is curious given that somebody in the earlier thread said my points were good but that I obviously disliked the Yankees.
I never claimed to like the Yankees, I’m not a Russian spy. I’m upfront about it. That being said, I’m willing to judge things fairly. If my dislike of the Yankees prevented me from being fair that would be one thing but I think Nick Swisher was a very good move and I wouldn’t give them credit for that if I had an inability to reason. It just so happens they have made many bad moves and overpaid free agents which your extreme love of the Yankees prevents you from admitting. It cuts both ways.
You guys are the ones who get personal instead of debating me on the merits of what I say. I have never personally attacked anyone here, I just don’t think the Yankees are the team they were last year. And one of us will be proven right and I assure you I’m not going anywhere between now and September so feel free to rip me then. I’m man enough to take it. The question is are the rest of you?
Oh! Oh shit! He said we’re not man enough!
It just so happens they have made many bad moves and overpaid free agents which your extreme love of the Yankees prevents you from admitting. It cuts both ways.
So basically they use the one advantage they have, why shouldn’t they, and they make moves that don’t turn out great, like, well, every team. And also, if you’ve seen some of Rose’s past posts, he’s basically you times thirty. This isn’t the person to say that to.
Me times 30 in what respect?
Rose is mad at me because I pointed out some factual information he had wrong in a post last week. I proved it was wrong (he claimed the Rays play the O’s 9 more times, it is actually 12). Now he is on me saying I make vague points. No one has accused me of being vague and I defy anyone to point out something I got factually incorrect.
You can disagree with some of my opinions but when I give facts they are well researched, something I can’t say for Rose given my limited interactions so far.
I am fine with most of your points as the Nick Swisher trade was a good one and the Granderson trade isn’t a good one along with many other poor moves they have made, but lets stop with the overpaying for free agents talk. We are all grown ups and the people who make the most money get the nicer things and that is life. Baseball is no different and sports even w/salary caps is no different.
Yeah, I caught his comments in the previous thread. I’m also aware of a number of other Granderson detractors here. Sorry. Not going to stop me from writing what I think and feel.
I’m not blaming you, JoePow. You don’t create the idiots, you just comment on what’s relevant and the idiots jump to horrible conclusions based upon it.
It’s the circle of life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8ZnCT14nRc (SAFE)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpXN8BvGp_o (safe)
See, personal attacks. It is sad that you feel you have to resort to that instead of sticking to the issues.
Checks Joe’s comment again
I didn’t see Joe make any personal attacks in that comment.
I had hoped Granderson would be putting up better numbers right now but he’s not and I am concerned as well. I was not arguing that. I was arguing the concept of Bret’s that the trade seems to be an epic fail by Cashman. Pointing out Jackson’s decline since his hot start, that Coke =/= our best LHP in the pen and that Granderson still has out WAR’d AJax despite his disappointing numbers was what I was arguing in favor of Granderson.
FACT: Last I checked, Austin Jackson was hitting .350/.500/.600 and Curtis Granderson hadn’t hit a homer in 4 straight years.
Jackson’s hitting .252/.301/.322 with 40 K in his last 153 plate appearances. All that talk about AL ROY has died down ever since Brennan Boesch showed up.
All that talk about AL ROY has died down ever since Brennan Boesch showed up.
Eh, not quite. I had on MLBN a few days ago and they were still going on about BATTING AVERAGE!!!!. He could be like Raul Ibanez last year, where a ridiculous start makes everyone think the player is better than he actually is for the rest of the year.
Nitpick–until the playoffs, Coke was the best lefty in the pen. The trouble was, Bret was taking that for proof that Coke was good–he had a -0.4 WAR.
Phil Coke is the very definition of irrelevant. Why we continue to discuss him like he matters at all to anyone is beyond me.
Apparently Rob Neyer thinks he should be an All-Star:
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweets.....can-league
The Phil Coke pick is from some guy who writes a Tigers blog. Coke has been good this year, but if you’re taking a middle reliever, he’d better be outstanding, rather than merely above average.
But the clubhouse presence. Think of the clubhouse.
The glorious fu manchu.
No one can point to sky like Phil Coke. NO ONE!
Holding an armful of presents, he waited for her to enter the room. Sure, the gang was all there. Jim was crouched behind the sofa, Jenny and Kathy were both clumsily trying to hide behind the fichus near the door, while Dave, Kevin, Michelle and several others who he did and didn’t know from her office were equally scattered around looking for places from which to emerge and yell “surprise.” But even with everyone there, he felt like he was alone. He was in love and it was time to let her know how he felt. Just then, as he was nervously glancing at his watch, Denise, who had helped him to plan the surprise party, yelled that the guest of honor was coming up the walk and told everyone to be quiet. As she turned the key and opened the door, the lights burst on and a cacophony of shouts and laughs filled the air. This was the big moment when she would realize what he meant to her. But like all moments we imagine, it is never what we expect. Later she would say that she was overwhelmed, but the truth is never really as besieged by emotion as we claim. Oh, she didn’t ignore him, but simply acknowledged him like she did the others from work, a quick hug and an “thank you” before moving on to the next guest. I’d say that his was a ghostly existence, but that wouldn’t be quite right. It wasn’t that he didn’t exist. He just didn’t matter. With that, Phil Coke put the presents on the table and, with a tear slowly falling down his cheek, turned and left the party.
wtf….
(golf clap)
I don’t quite know what this is, but I feel like I should stand and applaud it.
this comes up blank
Really? Works fine for me and my Godlike RAB admin powers. It should be this:
http://tinyurl.com/25elcmw
I can’t see either! Work blocks Youtube! Ahhh!!!
If you could tell me what it is so I’m not left in suspense for the next 3 hours that’d be great haha
And yet you post links to YouTube.
Bizarre.
It’s just a standing ovation.
haha well I’m able to google, copy, and paste. I just can’t see what they are. I give the titles used the benefit of the doubt when posteing lol.
I think it was the epilogue on the final episode of Roseanne…
His name should only be brought up in the context of how bullpen’s shouldn’t be constructed.
Coke has a lower K/9, a higher BB/9, and a higher BABIP this year than last year, but his ERA is nearly two full runs lower. Does not compute.
Home runs (which don’t go into BABIP) are way down. If those are instead falling for hits and then he is stranding them, BABIP goes up and ERA goes down.
The homers may also have a lot to do with the ballpark he’s playing in now.
They’re not letting him face Joe Mauer a lot, I guess.
Stay strong Joe. Never let the terriosts win.
NEVAR FORGET
Now watch me hit this drive…
I laughed.
I still have confidence in Kevin Long, if anyone can do it, he can.
I agree with this. I think, even though it will probably take away some of his power, they should try and get him to hit the ball the other way more. I know it’s easier said then done but he just looks extremely pull happy all the time.
Being a left-handed pull hitter in Yankees Stadium was one of the main reasons they traded for him. If they wanted an oppo field slap hitter, they would’ve just stayed with Gardner in CF.
The eternal optimist in me: He went 2-4 against Cliff Lee with a third hard hit ball. Best performance last night by a Yankee without the nickname of “Swishahouse.” One more night against King Felix, and then things get a little easier for the next few weeks. (More home games, bad teams, etc). Perhaps last night was the start of a little hot streak for Grandy.
The annoying realist in me: He just might be a .240-.250 hitter with a bit of pop for the rest of the season.
Let’s go optimist! Beat the heck out of the realist!
To be honest, I never really thought that highly of Granderson. And by this I don’t mean that I never liked him or thought he was a great player…but I never really saw him as a guy that was going either going to carry the team on his shoulders or disappoint the whole team – one extreme or the other. He’ll come around when you need him and he’ll contribute his share. Will it be to the satisfaction of what everybody (perhaps unfairly) valued him as? Maybe not…but he’s still a hell of a talent that helps the club regardless.
I’m more disappointed with Mark Teixeira’s nonsense. He’s supposedly in the middle of the apex of his career and one year removed from an MVP caliber year and he’s batting .230/.343/.409 (.752) in nearly half a season. While he’s on pace for more runs, he’s down significantly in everythign else.
Granderson is nothing compared to my concerns with Tex. Granderson is a compliment to a Teixeira. He’s not a Teixeira. IMO anyway.
I strictly see Granderson as a tale of two players.
When a righty is on the mound, you can’t look at his overall numbers and say “that is who he is.” Against righties he is a beast. He has a career .893 OPS against righties and OPS’d .900 and .897 against them the past two years. This year he is at .870. I would bet he is due for an improvement against righties by the end of the year.
Now, the ugly side, lefties. He truly struggles here and when he gets a couple of slap hits against a lefty it is minor miracle. He clearly has no power against them and really does not seem to be improving in that area.
So, overall, I’m still not sure how I feel about this, ha. Time will tell I guess.
One could wonder how much he could benefit picking Robinson Cano’s brain on his approach against lefties…
Everybody is different and certain things don’t work for everybody…and he probably has done this for all I know – but I just wonder what there is he could do.
Robbie seems like a Manny Ramirez kinda guy to me in that they’re both hitting savants with uncanny ability to find the ball with the bat. And Manny’s a notoriously useless batting coach; he can’t give advice to anyone, because that advice always involves a “just be good enough to only swing at the pitches you can hit and hit them hard” kind of statement that’s just way easier said than done.
There’s a reason so many bad players end up being good coaches; they know what doesn’t work to avoid. Great hitters often struggle telling other players how to fix things, because so much of what they do is just natural/instinctive/unique/unteachable.
Yeah that’s true. Those damn hispanics and their unteachable talents, inaccurately perceived (but still lazy) work ethics, Dan Fogelberg, and pac man video games…
You left out “pernil”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSRoyn0DMDE (SAFE w/ headphones lol)
Mmm…pernil. That is all.
I would have felt a lot better if Joe added the sentence “but I would have traded for him anyway” in this post, but that’s neither here nor there.
I loved the trade when I heard about it, and I still do. Granderson, much like the Yankee offense as a whole, has been inconsistent. Frankly I’m surprised he hasn’t been embraced by the fickle fan, considering how many of Grandy’s homers have come in big spots (Extra innings in Boston, GW off Pelfrey, Extra innings in Arizona) but I guess that’s the Austin Jackson factor. When the organization trades a #1 prospect and the guy brought in doesn’t tear up the league, this is what happens.
I still think Granderson could have a huge year playing 80 games in Yankee Stadium.
+1. It’s easy to look at the batting average and say he’s majorly struggling and won’t get better, but for someone who missed a lot of time he’s already had a bunch of big hits, he’s shown good patience at the plate, and when he hits the ball solidly it usually goes a long way. I think there’s a tendency on our part as fans to want everyone in the lineup to be a patience/power robot who bats over .280 and OBP’s over .360. We have a lot of players in that elite hitter range-ARod, Tex, Jeter, Posada, Cano, and increasingly, Swisher. Is it so terrible to have a guy who springs speed and extra bases to the lineup while not being an excellent hitter in terms of average? I’d rather have Granderson’s ability to win ballgames late with a homer or double, combined with his low average, then have a Melky Cabrera type player who might collect 30 more basehits in a season but won’t strike any fear into the opposing pitcher. A guy who steals, defends, homers, and walks at good rates is not someone who needs to be excoriated by fans.
Maybe he needs to give up switch hitting.
In all seriousness, the Yankees acquired him to provide lefthanded power, and by and large he’s provided that. Yes, it would be nice if he boosted the OBP, but I have to believe someone his age will rebound to previous levels of performance at some point, not necessarily this year.
He’s still on pace for a 3.5-4.0 win season despite spending basically all of May on the DL, which is pretty damn awesome.
Granderson is a bust. Cashman blew it with this guy. He is exactly what he was in Detroit and we gave up a ton to get him with Ajax and gave up on Damon and Matsui. Cashman will be looking for a new job at the end of the season.
haha
WE TRADED THE GUY WHO SUCCEEDED FOR THE ONE THAT FAILED!!!!1!!!
I’m glad I kind of turned that into a meme. (wipes away happy tear)
I give because I love.
LoHud is that way —>
Bret?
WAR by Player
Curtis Granderson – 1.4
Johnny Damon – 1.2
Hideki Matsui – 0.4
and we’ve already beaten the Austin Jackson dead horse enough…
a. I’m pretty sure this isn’t serious. It’s too dumb.
b. He is exactly what he was in Detroit
They are who we thought they were!!!
They are who we thought they were!!!
PLAYOFFS?!? YOU TALKIN’ ‘BOUT PLAYOFFS?!? PLAYOFFS?!?
He’s still on pace for a 3.5-4.0 win season despite spending basically all of May on the DL, which is pretty damn awesome.
Repeated for emphasis. For comparison, Johnny Damon played 143 games for us last year and had his best year ever offensively and still only produced 3.6 WAR.
Defense FTW.
Johnny Damon has a +19.2 UZR/150 in LF this year.
::head explodes::
Heh.
Seriously, though, I personally think UZR/150 should only be used to compare the defense of player’s entire careers. Anything three years or under should be UZR only, never UZR/150.
Of course he does.
Wish people would be more patient with Granderson. He’s not exactly killing us, he may be still be hurt and hopefully we will see an improved Curtis in the snd half. Worst case scenario unless he tanks in the second half, he is still a movable chip if we decide to sign CC and move Brett to center.
Also wish people would stop cash bashing for this trade. Nobody was to high on Coke at the time after his playoff performance. Kennedy had only pitched one good inning mlb in 2 years (and if anybody thinks he is good enough to be in our starting 5 please stand up) jury is still out on Jackson. Please wait till the end of the year (atleast) to judge
cash bashing
I like it.
Please wait till the end of the year (atleast) to judge
(unwraps burrito, wipes down microwave)
do you eat your burritos with sour cream, sour grapes or neither
People crying about giving up Phil Coke are operating under clear revisionist history, IMO. Some people were always Kennedy backers so I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt… kind of.
I can understand being upsetish about giving up Jackson, I don’t get acting like he’s the greatest player of all time. I also notice a lot of people going on about how he was zomgsoamazing early on have now taken the “the Tigers rushed him, he’s not ready!!!” POV now that he’s kinda struggling.
(I don’t know why this is two comments. Sawwy.)
I liked Ian Kennedy and thought he could have turned into a decent back of the rotation option. I liked Austin Jackson and thought he could have played a decent and cost effective CF.
That being said, trading them for Curtis Granderson made a ton of sense and I didn’t quibble with it. You have to give up stuff to get stuff.
4.91 FIP.
Maybe in the NL West. See Ian’s starts interleague. yes its very sss, but it’s all we have. Subjectively don’t think he would fare to well in the al east
Nobody was to high on Coke at the time after his playoff performance.
wells’d
The GrandyMan can..
A half a season is way too early to start talking about did it or did it not work. He’s got a career high LD%, a HR/FB lower than his career norm, the lowest IFFB% since 2005, and he’s hitting more fly balls. Anecdotally he’s been hitting a lot of deep line drives that get caught. He’s just been coming across shitty luck, like most of the offense.
I believe Curtis will show his worth by the end of the year. He hustles and has the abilty to learn. He is still a work in progress much as Gardner. Gardner’s average should slip but I believe the contact will improve. Thus more solid hits which will produce some EBHs. IMHO