Jul
14

Did we miss out on Jeter’s 3,000th hit?

By

By the end of the 2008 season it became clear that, health permitting, Derek Jeter would reach the 3,000-hit milestone sometime during the 2011 season. He had just 179 hits that season, his lowest total since his injury-shortened 2003 campaign, which left him with 2,535 career hits. Yet even if he’d matched his career high of 219 hits it still would have taken him until 2011. It’s a shame that the target date comes after his 10-year, $189 million contract expires, but that’s the way things work in baseball.

At 2,847 career hits, Jeter is the active MLB leader. He has 100 hits on the 2010 season, which puts him on pace for 196 if he matches his 2009 total of 716 PA. Let’s give him another seven, just because I think he’ll perform better in the second half (it would give him a .284 average on the season). That would put him at 2,950 career hits, meaning he’d break the record probably some time in May of next year. It will be a joyous time for Yankees fans, not only because it’s Jeter accomplishing it, but because we’ve never witnessed a player reach 3,000 hits as a Yankee. While the milestone is real in the official record books, Jeter has actually already accumulated more than 3,000 career hits.

Under MLB guidelines, postseason numbers do not count towards a player’s career totals. I guess they do this to create a level playing field for everyone. Players from an older era are at a distinct disadvantage because they did not have the playoffs. Even before 1995 there was just one round, the LCS, before the World Series. With three rounds, modern players would have the ability to tack on even more stats to their career totals — notice how almost all playoff records were broken after 1995. Still, it’s something to ponder. Those hits did happen, they did count, and they did occur during a championship season.

Jeter trots home after hitting 3,000 | Photo credit: Seth Wenig/AP

As Tom Tango pointed out this morning, Derek Jeter reached his true 3,000th career hit on June 12th this year, when he homered off Wandy Rodriguez in the bottom of the first. There were no fireworks, and there was no celebration. I’m sure that exactly zero people were even aware of the feat. I don’t think that makes it any less meaningful. The 3,000 hit milestone is arbitrary anyway. What’s the difference between Sam Rice’s 2,987 and Roberto Clement’s 3,000? I don’t see much there.

No one will officially recognize Derek Jeter as having 3,000 hits until next May. That’s fine. Those are the standards MLB set for its record keeping, so for the sake of uniformity that’s what we’ll use as the official marker. But make no mistake: Derek Jeter has 3,000 hits that have counted towards a championship season. This just makes me question how truly meaningful the milestone is.

Categories : Offense

119 Comments»

  1. Michael Kay (I’m 95% sure it was him, if not, it was one of the YES broadcasters) mentioned it right after Jeter did it.

  2. Rose says:

    So that make’s Wade Boggs no longer the only player in history to hit a home run for his 3000th hit…

    Cool!

  3. Daniel says:

    I don’t mean to hate, i love this website, and all the articles, but this might be the first i disagree with strongly. 3000 is a very meaningful milestone.

    • I have no position, and I don’t mean any disrespect here: But your comment has a conclusion with no explanation. Why do you think 3000 hits is a very meaningful milestone?

      • Daniel says:

        Indeed I did, you are correct. Round numbers have become a big deal because they are rare. I don’t see much of a diff between a .297 batting avg, and a .300 on a season, but for a career i do think round numbers, especially ones like 300 wins and 3000 hits, 600 hrs. they are very exclusive clubs. obviously they may be blown out of proportion, but 3000 hits represent more than a long a career. It represents consistency, heart, passion, and determination. it represents a pure talent. Obviously guys who are barely short of the milestone are excellent…but compare it to someone who gets an 89 on an exam, vs someone who got a 93. The 93 is not much better, but it is represented and a half a letter grade better.

        • So, just because we use a decimal system, 3000 hits has a diferent meaning then, for example, being on the 3017 hit club?

          Just asking.

          • Daniel says:

            i didnt grow up knowing about a 3017 hit club. if some decided that was the club, then we have just an extra 20ish games to wait for jeter

            • Rose says:

              I think I get what you’re saying. There are these exclusive clubs for a reason. Perhaps taken from and based upon a large sample size of hall of fame players and their careers amongst the rest of the players over the years. It looks prettier, and just so happens to fit well, to use .300 as a batting average and 3000 as a hits total and 500 HR as a HR total and 300 wins, etc.

              Somebody didn’t sit down and make these the benchmarks when the rules of the game were first created…but they were rather created after several players had played the game and were based on what separated the ones who were bigger than the game from the ones who weren’t.

              IMO anyway.

              • Round numbers as a milestone sure are a nice thing, but that doesn’t mean that reaching that round number should have have more meaning than reaching another, non-round number.

                • Daniel says:

                  no but a standard has been set based on history. Unfortunately Arod would have been shat on last season by media and baseball fans if not for his final 2hrs to reach 30. How else do we divide the greats from the almost greats if not for these round numbers? 2,997 hits is a meaningless number unless you know that 3000 is the milestone. While 3 hits short is still magnificent….i is magnificent because he almost got 3000! because the milestone sets a standard

                  • Yeah, I know what you’re saying but these milestones are totally arbitrary, based on using the decimal system. 3000 in the binary system would be 101110111000. If we used the binary system, would you still use that as the milestone to decide if somebody should the in the HOF? If you lived in a society with a binary sytem would you consider somebody to be HOF-worthy with 111111111 homeruns (511) or still with 500 (111110100)?

                    • Daniel says:

                      I agree that it is a result of the decimal system, I am simply arguing that 3000 hits, and other round number milestones are more meaningful than this article suggested. The fact that 4 hits can ruin someones HOF chances is still redic.

                    • I think we can agree that you need certain milestones are important and you can as well use round numbers for that and leave it at that.

                    • Daniel says:

                      sounds good. It’s been a pleasure

              • gc says:

                Agreed. Culturally, these numbers have become agreed upon for over a century. That’s why they’re meaningful, whether we as individuals consider them to be or not. So dismissing these numbers or trying to lessen their significance seems odd to me. The Yankees universe will be celebrating when #2 gets that hit next year. We may as well enjoy the ride and forget about getting wrapped up in whatever beef we may have with the hows and whys.

                • king of fruitless hypotheticals says:

                  I’m totally confused…what about guys that play in Toronto or played in Montreal?

                  Can they get away with only hitting 2400 hits or what?

                  /metricsystem’d

                • rbizzler says:

                  I don’t think celebrating the somewhat arbitrary milestone and reassessing the significance of the milestone are mutually exclusive.

                  Just like most people, I love a good party, but if a player retired with 2980 hits rather than the almighty 3000, I don’t think that diminishes their accomplishments.

                  While the purist in me wants to agree with you, I also understand what Joe is getting at when he refers to the 3000 hit milestone as arbitrary. It does provide a good opportunity to celebrate Jeter’s longevity and success so I will be cheering for him, but I don’t fault Joe for trying to inject a little perspective in the proceedings.

        • Esteban says:

          LOL, sucks for the guy with 2987 hits (Sam Rice), guess he didn’t have heart or passion I guess. Test grades and career hits are not the same. If you added up all the grades of tests you took in your whole life, 4 points would not mean anything.

    • Dirty Pena says:

      I think you are misinterpreting what Joe means by meaningless. Obviously having 3,000 hits means you had a good and/or long career. But is a guy who has 2,900 hits really that much worse than a guy that has 3,000? It’s just a round number, in the same way 20 wins is hardly better than 19 yet people go crazy about that differentiation too.

  4. A.D. says:

    A-Rod alluded to this when talking during the HR derby when discussing 600 HR, the Yankees, and where he was as a ballplayer saying something like:

    “I hit the biggest homeruns of my career last year and they didn’t even count, the ones in the post season last year…”

    • ROBTEN says:

      “I hit the biggest homeruns of my career last year and they didn’t even count, the ones in the post season last year…”

      Gee whiz, ARod, it’s always about padding the stats, isn’t it?

      /Yes, I am being sarcastic.

  5. Ross says:

    I was listening on the radio and Sterling mentioned this. I’m pretty sure it was broadcast on television, too.

  6. Ghost of Scott Brosius says:

    What about the home run records? Babe Ruth hit 15 World Series HR’s, meaning his record could’ve been regarded not as 714 but 729.

  7. EndlessMike says:

    Another Jeter @$$ kissing post….ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

    Too bad 2750 of those hits were bloop singles.

    I understand people want Jeter to be the next Cal Ripken Jr.But relax.He ain’t Jordan.If we can only he had A-Rods talent would Jeter have been deserving of all this acclaim.

    Forget Jeter in the POst season have you seen Ruth and Mantle numbers in the postseason.

    • Carlosologist says:

      lololololololol

      I needed a good laugh today.

    • Dirty Pena says:

      My sarcasm meter might be malfunctioning but I refuse to believe this is serious.

      • Dirty Pena says:

        Just for fun because people don’t usually realize this since Cal Ripken IS America:

        Cal, career: .276/.340/.447/.788 112 OPS+
        Through age 36: .276/.334/.450/.794 115 OPS+

        Jeter, career: .315/.386/.456/.842 120 OPS+

        • Ed says:

          Through age 36: .276/.334/.450/.794 115 OPS+
          Jeter, career: .315/.386/.456/.842 120 OPS+

          Huh, I would’ve expected more of an OPS+ difference between those two stat lines.

          • Dirty Pena says:

            In 1989, a .718 OPS got Cal a 106 OPS+. Yeah, not such a fun time period for baseball.

            • Steve H says:

              And he finished 3rd in the MVP ballot. Ironically enough the A’s that year had a .712 OPS from their whole team despite playing in a pitchers park and Canseco missing half the season. The A’s were certainly the frontrunners of the next ERA in baseball.

              • CS Yankee says:

                …needles arrived in Oakland first and then spread throughout the land.

                /Cansecoisapioneerfortomorrowsmedicinenotaliar’d

        • ROBTEN says:

          Yeah, but I have it on good authority that if Calvin Edwin “Iron Man” Ripken Downey Jr. never hit anything less than a double and if by chance he did stop at first it was only out of the goodness of his heart to give the hard working people of Baltimore, Maryland additional time to watch his perfect form running around the bases. And you can take that to the Money Store.

        • JohnnyC says:

          Yeah, Ripken was even the first Derek Jeter.

      • theyankeewarrior says:

        I think this guy is totally serious.

        And ignorant.

        And misinformed.

        And new.

        And confised.

        etc.

      • jsbrendog (returns) says:

        but yo, it’s ENDLESS MIKE!

    • CountryClub says:

      Jeter is better than Cal.

    • Daniel says:

      anyone know how to punch someone via the internet?

    • Rose says:

      Another I hate Jeter because everybody else likes him post…ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

      Two bad 1 out of your 1 posts are asanine and unnecessary.

      I understand people want to try and be different but relax. What are you trying to prove? If only you used logic and reasoning in your post perhaps it would be taken more seriously.

      Forget bringing it up again. It’s not only irrelevant but extremely unnecessary.

    • Slugger27 says:

      in all honesty, ive found that this site (moreso than just about any yankee blog) is very conservative in its praise of jeter

      theres been plenty of times ive read articles on here and wound up thinking “they don’t appreciate jeter like they should”

      • Ross in Jersey says:

        Probably because this site is very statistically minded and Jeter’s oft-cited “intangibles” don’t carry as much weight here. Not to say the site doesn’t appreciate his mannerism – we’re all passionate Yankee fans after all – but when evaluating players we’re not going to forgive a bunt in the 4th inning because he has calm eyes and did “the little things to win a game”.

      • king of fruitless hypotheticals says:

        heh…if anyone thinks there’s too much jeterian love here, ask kabak what he thinks we should do if jeter demands 6yrs/150MM and watch what happens.

    • Ross in Jersey says:

      >Implying 2750 bloop singles would be something to be ashamed of

    • bexarama says:

      This site hardly kisses Jeter’s ass in general, I think.

      The media is ridiculous about him, and he’s having a very down year for him. Even in his best years, he was frequently only like, the second or third best individual shortstop in the game. That doesn’t mean he’s not an incredibly important part of this team who’s had an amazing career and should be a first ballot HOFer. And yes, that HOFer part would be true if he was on the Royals, too (though maybe not so much to the media).

    • Hikker says:

      He is a Yankee no?

  8. theyankeewarrior says:

    And I was there to see it! As well as #3,001 which was caught by some guy 15 feet from me in RF.

    Thanks for the post Joe. That’s pretty cool.

    I always thought it was odd that all of Bernie’s postseason HRs never counted towards his total.

    As well as Manny’s.

    Sidenote: In case any of you are considering buying tickets soon, sections 103-106 are awesome. Between $130-175 on StubHub gets you in the front row behind Swisher and he’ll interact with you all game long.

  9. ZZ says:

    As the old scouting saying goes, you can’t trust the numbers from April and September.

    So in my book Jeter is a ways off from 3,000.

  10. ROBTEN says:

    What’s the difference between Sam Rice’s 2,987 and Roberto Clement’s 3,000?

    It’s 13 hits. What do I win?

    /jk

  11. dan genovese says:

    come on…………….in season and post season?

  12. Rose says:

    So Joe…are you suggesting we all sit in our seats and fold our arms or go about our ways (bathroom breaks, get beers/food, etc.) when he “officially” hits 3000 to prove a point?

    Rufio! Rufio! Rufio!

    /joking’d

  13. Steve H says:

    What’s the difference between Sam Rice’s 2,987 and Roberto Clemente’s 3,000?

    The difference could unfortunately be the Hall of Fame. Not with these two, but in general.

    Player A 2605 hits+1330 BB’s+42 HBP’s=3977 times on base in 10,359 PA’s
    Player B 3141 hits+790 BB’s+ 24 HBP’s=3955 times on base in 10,232 PA’s

    Player A can’t get into the Hall, Player B was one of the highest vote getters ever. Similar power, Player A was a better baserunner and fielder. If Player A got to 3000 hits he would have been first ballot, but wasted all of that time getting on base in other ways and it’s keeping him out of Cooperstown.

  14. Ben says:

    Laaaaaame post.

  15. Daniel says:

    RABbis, the article mentioned that almost all playoff records were broken after the expansion in 95…what are the record that have not been broken?

    • A.D. says:

      World series records.

    • bexarama says:

      I don’t know, but I’d guess rate stats. Though, guys like Beltran and Troy Glaus (!!! no, seriously. It’s gotta be a SSS thing, though.) have passed Ruth and Gehrig’s OPS and stuff.

    • Rick in Boston says:

      Lefty Gomez’s career 1.000 winning percentage in the playoffs still stands alone. Christy Mathewson still leads with 10 CG’s and 4 shutouts.

      • Dirty Pena says:

        Lefty Gomez’s career 1.000 winning percentage in the playoffs still stands alone. is second best to Josh Beckett’s 2.000 winning percentage in the playoffs.

        /ESPN’d

  16. Miami Can Have Queen James says:

    Steve,

    In response to your post discussing the relatively similar statistics of Raines and Gwynn:

    It is well known at this point that OBP (and other such statistics) were once significantly undervalued. If these two players had played in this decade, as opposed to the 80′s and 90′s, their careers almost certainly would’ve been looked at differently, and perhaps comparably.

    • While OBP might not have been valued very highly in the 80′s, NOT making outs was probably still on everyone’s agenda.

      • ROBTEN says:

        Fun Fact: As a result of a poor decision by the Detroit Tigers’ public relations to hand out over-ripe bushels of fruit to the first 1000 in attendance, during the first two months of the 1983 season any player who walked was pelted with elderberries by the fans.

        • Fun Fact #2: All of Jack Morris’s “pitching to the score” was just his personal attempt to balance the sporting cosmos by punishing members of his own team who drew walks like a fairy nancy-girl and gave him runs he didn’t deserve.

          Aces win games by one run, they don’t win games by 5 runs because their offense is always getting on base via walk and scoring extra runs like some sort of fruity man-lady.

  17. nsalem says:

    Yes Raines was never given the respect that Brock had. Who knows why? It was almost like he was playing in another country.

    • jsbrendog (returns) says:

      ietc

    • CS Yankee says:

      LOL

      This, Raines was a beast…Doug Drabek says he was the most feared hitter and later was facing him when his arm broke on a pitch.

      Raines in Montreal…worst team in regards for exposure (less hockey).

      Brock in St Louis…average team in regards for exposure, but a top 5 city for baseball.

      • nsalem says:

        Raines played in obscurity and in one of the darkest dreariest ballparks i have ever seen. He was a great ballplayer. sometimes in the late 80′s he missed spring training and the first several weeks of the season over a contract dispute. i remember his first game back against the Mets literally ripping them a new one with his nbat and speed. Don’t remember the exact specifics but it was an incredible performance

  18. Meat Loaf says:

    It’s a special number. We, as people, enjoy round numbers. The millennium was shocking for us. We call “40″ or “50″ over the hill, but not 39.9 or 49.9. Winning $100 on a scratch off ticket is way better than $95. A no-hitter deserves media coverage and a front page headline while a 1-hitter gets a pat on the back. A 49-3 win in football is miles worse than 50-3. We simply are fascinated by round numbers.

    I don’t doubt that 3,000 hits is marginally better than 2,999 hits, but for the average American it might as well be the difference between 3,000 and 0.

  19. Miami Can Have Queen James says:

    It is also unfair to compare almost any two eras of baseball history. Each era has its own competitive advantages and disadvantages: Some hitters were unlucky to play during the “dead-ball” era, some hitters have benefited from playing during the steroid era, some pitchers had the advantage of pitching from a higher mound (1960′s) etc. etc.

    • Carlosologist says:

      First off, LOL at your handle. Best one I’ve seen in ages.

      • Kobe: Man, gimme your fruit cocktail!
        LeBron: Well, I can’t. If I did that, I’d have to give it to you everyday, and I won’t get all my vitamins.
        Kobe: DO YOU KNOW WHO YOU’RE DEALING WITH?!?!
        D-Wade: Chill, Black Mamba! He’s my bitch. If anyone’s gonna stab him, it’s gonna be me. Gotta problem with that?”
        Kobe: You better watch your back, fish. Flash ain’t always gonna be there… next time I come for you, I’m gonna want some cocktail. FRUIT!
        LeBron: Take it! … I’M SOMEBODY’S BITCH!!!

    • ROBTEN says:

      Each era has its own competitive advantages and disadvantages: Some hitters were unlucky to play during the “dead-ball” era, some hitters have benefited from playing during the steroid era, some pitchers had the advantage of pitching from a higher mound (1960’s) etc. etc.

      Which is precisely why we now have “adjusted” stats such as OPS+, ERA+, WAR, etc…

    • Ross in Jersey says:

      I disagree with this for a number of reasons. First of all, as stated already, we have certain stats that compare players to their peers in a given year, allowing you to fairly compare players across eras. Of course, they’re not perfect. Babe Ruth’s “peers” didn’t include black players, so you can make an argument he dominated a diluted talent pool. Regardless, saying you can’t fairly compare players across eras is still misguided.

      Also, besides the steroid users themselves, what hitters benefited from playing during the steroid era? If anything, the accomplishments of legit players (Jim Thome is the first to come to mind for me) were diminished because of certain players posting gaudy numbers by juicing crazy amounts of home runs.

      • Klemy says:

        Of the new stats, do we have anything that includes adjustment of stats for how many games you played against any team with a Dominican? All stats for those games would be inflated.

        /zing’d

  20. king of fruitless hypotheticals says:

    besides tony gwynn jr, the next guy i’d like to see get 3,000 hits is prince fielder. you know, we should make a play for him now (he’s having a down year, no?) to replace some of the slugging we’ll lose from Arod as he ages…

  21. godfather says:

    it doesn’t level the playing field to discount postseason numbers; it’s not like by doing that you’d equalize a fucking thing; there are differences in games played, parks played in, pitchers faced, quality of teammates, etc.; as for the hall, it’s about “writers” making judgments, largely based on their not wanting to miss on bandwagon types; brock got more attention than raines ever did; same with so many others, notably coming to mind oz vs. vizquel; the game itself remains immune to ruin by the suits running it

    • CS Yankee says:

      Omar’s glove >>>>> Ozzie’s glove
      Omar’s bat >=< Ozzie's glove (little to no difference)

      The difference making items;

      1) Ozzie played in St Louis, Omar mostly Cleveland
      2) Ozzie's smile and ability to sell himself
      3) Ozzie's cool backflips

  22. Doc Pollo says:

    I’m sure that exactly zero people were even aware of the feat.

    Oh yeah? Look again:
    http://riveraveblues.com/2010/.....ent-919636
    Posted within 1 minute of the feat. By me. Thank you very much.

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