Olney: ‘No conversations’ on Haren today

Game 96: You know Sergio?
Pettitte eying quick return to the mound

Update (3:15 p.m.): The Dan Haren saga is getting increasingly more intriguing as Buster Olney chimes in with a few of his patented “Heard This” tweets. The Yankees and Diamondbacks, he says, have had “no conversations” today concerning Haren. Furthermore, the Yankees “scoffed at reports that they were in the lead of the Haren negotiations because they have never been close to completing a deal to this point.” Olney speculated this morning that the D-backs are interested in Joba because they are looking for a closer. Arizona has reportedly asked Detroit for Jacob Turner and Andrew Oliver, two of the Tigers’ top pitching prospects. For what it’s worth, Fox News’ Jon Morosi reported yesterday that the Tigers are one of the teams on Haren’s no-trade list.

Earlier today, Jon Heyman added his own two cents as well. The Yanks, he said, won’t give up Joba Chamberlain and pay all of Haren’s salary. He also said that, in the right deal, the club would pay the salary but wouldn’t take Chad Qualls or Chris Snyder too. Right now, the two clubs are playing a game of poker, and the negotiations will continue.

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Game 96: You know Sergio?
Pettitte eying quick return to the mound
  • Craig

    Ugh not what i wanted to hear honestly :(

  • http://ballcraft.blogspot.com Zanath

    Aren’t the Tigers on his no-trade list?

  • Carlosologist

    Tigers won’t give up both Turner and Oliver in a Haren deal unless they get Stephen Drew as well.

    • Reggie C.

      Nah. Not even Drew’s inclusion in the deal would justify trading Turner and Oliver. Those are 2 guys who will make almost everyone’s top 100 prospects lists.

  • Steven

    They better get him bc mitire sucks big time

  • http://ballcraft.blogspot.com Zanath

    Well I really don’t think we can continue to go forward with Sergio Mitre starting, that’s for sure. I know this was his first start in the bigs in a while, but he looked awful today. He’s probably better than what he’s shown today, but I’m not sure if we can expect all that much from him. Especially as a third starter.

    • pat

      Just because he’s in the 3rd spot of the rotation doesn’t make him our third starter. He’s our 5th guy now.

  • Mattchu12

    As much as some folks want to throw in the towel on Joba, I’m happy to see that we’re not moving him. He has a bright future ahead of him, hopefully as a starter. I still like Joba’s potential and as much as I like Dan Haren, I wouldn’t incude Joba in this trade.

    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

      Here’s my question for you: Joba and Haren will both be free agents after 2013. Do you think Joba will outpitch Haren over the next three seasons? If so, don’t do the trade. If not, do the trade.

      • steve (do)

        Ben, I basically agree with you on a philosophical level, but you ARE ignoring about $25M in your argument. It is the yankees, and I’m not saying I disagree with the conclusion, but just b/c they are both FA’s in 2014 doesn’t mean the money lines up

        • Billy

          He’s not saying that what he’s trying to say is you could hypothetically both lose them the same time who do you think is going to be the most valuable player for the time you have them under contract.

          • steve (do)

            I get that, I am saying the yankees could spend that money in other ways. I’m just saying it muddies the argument a little, not that it changes it

        • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

          A few points on the money argument:

          1. I’m basing this on the assumption that Pettitte will retire and Javy will walk. Haren would replace one of those salaries at nearly the same rate, and Lee would replace the other at a higher rate if all went according to plan.

          2. Don’t forget that Joba’s in line for arbitration this year. He’ll probably make $1.5-$2 million next year, and he’s a starter going forward, he could make something like $4-5 million in 2012 and $8-$10 in 2012. That off-sets the money the Yanks would have to pay Haren, right?

          He’s signed to a below-market deal, and we’re talking about the Yankees. The money shouldn’t be that much of an obstacle.

          • steve (do)

            I factored in joba’s arb already. Like I said, don’t disagree, just that it’s a little more complicated than who will pitch better.

            It’s not an insignificant amount and yes, the yankees are loaded, but they still seem to have a budget

            • Gonzo

              The budget is a weird thing though. Getting Haren might be an adherence to a budget. Getting a 2/3 starter for Haren’s contract is impossible in free agency. This also might be insurance on not being the highest bidder for Cliff Lee because of budget constraints.

          • J

            I usually disagree with you Ben, but this time you’re on point. The only disagreement I have is I think your arbitration numbers are skewed. I thought closers get more then starters traditionally in arbitration. If Joba starts he shouldn’t warrant that type of money. If he continues as a setup man, he won’t see near that much.

            Regardless, I doubt he is a breaker in the deal. It seems strange they want the two top Tiger prospects but would settle for Nova and Joba. Course, they may pick up some salary in the Detroit offer.

      • Jersey Mike in LA

        Ben,

        I agree with your basic premise as well. The one thing you are discounting is the Yankees’ confidence in prying Haren away without giving up Joba. What’s the rush? If July 31st passes or Haren is traded elsewhere in the interim and Joba’s inclusion turns out to be the deal breaker, then we can have this conversation. Nothing wrong with playing a little poker.

        • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

          Oh, sure. I agree with you. There’s no need to give in right away when the need isn’t there yet.

          I’m just saying that, if it does comes down to Joba or not, the Yanks shouldn’t hesitate to include him. Better if they can get the deal done without Joba, but he’s no longer untouchable in the right move.

          • Jersey Mike in LA

            I agree completely. And that is not to discount the fact that he could still go on to have a great career as a starter/closer. I just think the chances of that happening are a lot smaller than we once thought. A shame.

          • Adam B

            but is haren the right move? if it were someone a bit younger with better stats this year then maybe i would be ok with it.

            • Gonzo

              Basically, you want Haren a year ago. Younger and better year? That would cost a lot more, a whole lot more.

              In trades of this magnitude, if there is no pain, there is no gain.

              • Adam B

                see nick swisher for wilson betemit
                see bobby abreu for cj henry and crap
                see arod for soriano
                see dan haren for nova and co. and taking on his contract

                • Gonzo

                  Not sure if you agree with me or not. Haren is on a whole other level than Swisher (I believe stil is too) at the time of his trade. If you think Haren is pricey, an aging, defensively challenged, RF with 16 mm a year coming to him is a steal? Not say it didn’t work out, but Cash got Abreu because he took on salary, not because of the prospects involved. And the A-Rod deal was another salary dump IMO, and the Rangers still got a very, very good Soriano, and turned down the inclusion of Robbie Cano!

                  • Adam B

                    haren in a higher level than swisher, but my point is if your the yankees and you have money you are able to swing deals that really dont cause much pain. Cashman is great at that. Abreu isn’t torii hunter but he was a good player for us and he acquired him for absolutely nothing. Of course look at the victor martinez trade, the sox gave up diddly squat for him. Masterson was going no where with the sox. But he kept Bucholz EVEN THOUGH HE STRUGGLED because he knew there was a chance that bucholz could go somewhere with the sox. If you have to give up chamberlain to make this trade then I wouldn’t do it.

                    • Gonzo

                      In an earlier post you mentioned that the Yanks should be more budget conscience in the Haren deal. I pointed out how this deal could be budget related. Now you point out that the Yanks strength is not having a budget.

                      At any rate, the trades you mentioned made me realize that the Yanks are good at cutting bait with players. If they deal Joba, I would say that they have the track record to say Joba isn’t going to be Buttholez. Sometimes top prospects don’t reach full potential. Maybe scouts saw something in Hughes/Buttholez they don’t see in Joba.

                      Like I said elsewhere, if Olney is right, a crappy NL West team wants Joba for their ‘pen.

    • Craig

      What makes you think this guys has a bright future? Espectially as bright a future as Dan Haren has been?

    • Gonzo

      I don’t want to pour gasoline on fire, but if Olney is right, the D’backs wanted Joba in the ‘pen. That’s on a crappy NL West team.

  • Billy

    Not only that when you are a prosepct you are suppose to get progressively better not worse. Since Joba made his debut in the major the following year has been worse then the previous. Everyone says we need to be patient with Joba but he’s been in the big leagues for four years now and has been getting worse not better. It either means he was’nt as good as people thought or he has’nt been doing what he is suppose to be doing in my opinion

  • http://ballcraft.blogspot.com Zanath

    Maybe if we don’t get Haren we should put Joba in the rotation?

    /hides

    • Ghost

      /Finds you and kicks you in the balls for such a notion

      • Billy

        /throws up everywhere

        • http://ballcraft.blogspot.com Zanath

          I’m only joking…sort of.

  • http://twitter.com/JoeySSL JoeyH

    I’m still waiting for Jon Heyman’s great tweets. Wow, the man gives such insight! One of his more recent tweets was “With Pettitte injured, the Yankees will either trade for a pitcher or go with one from within.” Absolutely Genius. So lets see what light he can shed on Haren.

    • Gonzo

      My sources say there will be a trade before the deadline.

      Also, the World Series winner will be from the AL or NL.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        Heard this: Sound is a traveling wave that is an oscillation of pressure transmitted through a solid, liquid, or gas, composed of frequencies within the range of hearing and of a level sufficiently strong to be heard, or the sensation stimulated in organs of hearing by such vibrations.

        • http://ballcraft.blogspot.com Zanath

          Win

          • Gonzo

            Heard this: sound

      • GG2010

        We are number one. All others are number two, or lower.
        /The Sphinx’ed

        • Pat D

          We are the Super Squad!

  • Reggie C.

    Are the D’Backs so frigging lazy that they can’t trade Snyder and Qualls on their own? Qualls comes off the books after this season, so if the D’Backs are desperate to get another team to pay Qualls the remainder of his salary, i wonder if that team is in real financial trouble.

  • http://twitter.com/j_yankees2213 j_Yankees

    whats the point of keeping Joba over getting Haren if you’re going to leave Joba in the bullpen beyond this year?

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      There isn’t one, which is why I’m reluctantly okay with this deal. And I’ve been one of Joba’s biggest backers.

      If Joba’s going to remain in the bullpen, though, you have to trade him for Haren. Have to. The only reason I could see the Yankees turning down a deal of Joba + Nova + two other prospects for Haren is if those other two prospects were elite guys like Brackman or Ramirez or Stoneburner or Heathcott or something big, but the reports don’t indicate that.

  • http://fmylife.com Bryan

    After watching Mitre’s performance today, I think you need to go out and get Haren.

    And dare I say it… put Joba in the deal.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      Andy says he won’t need the full 4-6 weeks, though, that he’ll be back early.

      http://sports.espn.go.com/new-.....id=5406680

      Does that change your calculus? I see the value in trading for Haren (depending on price), but don’t think Sergio Mitre being in the rotation for 5 more turns or so should be the driving force behind a Haren trade. 5 turns of Sergio Mitre isn’t going to kill us, and according to Andy it may only be 3 turns or so.

      • http://fmylife.com Bryan

        It’s not just Mitre. Since the break, our starters haven’t been pitching up to par. It just seems like if putting Joba in the deal now makes sense.

        • http://fmylife.com Bryan

          And yeah I did hear that Andy could come back early, but what we shouldn’t do is rush him back and possibly cause further complications.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          Since the break, our starters haven’t been pitching up to par.

          It’s been, what, two weeks? No big whoop. Give ‘em time.

    • steve (different one)

      this is a horrible reason to make the trade. sorry. i know everyone is upset that the Yankees dared to lose a game today, but it’s simply not a good enough reason to make a major move. that’s not how major league teams operate, that’s how fans operate.

      Pettitte is feeling better, he could be back in a few starts. Moseley threw 4 1/3 shutout innings, maybe he could fill in.

      i’m not saying you don’t make the trade on it’s own merits. but making a huge trade b/c your 6th starter will make 4-5 starts is silly.

      the yankees have a SEVEN game lead on the WC, they will be fine either way.

  • http://uclabruins.playitusa.com/ Luca10

    Cashman, pull the damn trigger ASAP! Joba+Nova+ZMac+lesser prospect: we have a deal!

  • nathan

    Tex is sloooooooooowwww

    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak
      • nathan

        aah, my bad, thought was on the other thread.

  • Chops

    Two words: Darrell. Rasner.

  • viridiana

    Haren is a disaster. Twenty more hits than than innings pitched. Even Mitre and Mosely have probably never coughed it up so bad.

    Joba is 24 years old– the age most pitchers come up to the bigs. Horrible error to give up on him now for a guys who’s been good, but clearly has slipped. Nova should get Mittre’s next start– one good ML appearance and he alone might land Haren. Or fill any rotation holes. Meanwhile, it’s the bullpen that’s crying for help.

    • FIPster Doofus

      If by “Haren is a disaster” you mean “Haren is a very good pitcher,” then I agree.

  • phughesisgod

    This is how far the Yankees and the D’Backs seem to be apart:

    “Hearing Yanks prefer to build the deal around arms like Noesi/Nova/McAllister. Can see this going down to the wire”

    “And obviously AZ is looking for someone like Joba or perhaps a guy like Banuelos to go with him and I doubt the Yankees go there”

    Heres where I got this: http://twitter.com/FrankiePiliere

    Yikes. AZ wants Joba and Banuelos(at least thats the way I am reading it)plus more and the Yankees want to build the deal around Nova, Noesi and Z-Mac? AZ wants the world. Yankees want a bit below market price. In other words, unless AZ comes down on its price and the Yankees add in Nunez and perhaps a guy like Melancon to 2 of Nova, Noesi and Z-Mac, this is not getting done.

    • Gonzo

      Tony Montana: Jerry, I know how this works. You go high, I go low.