Olney: Yanks first offer to Lee would be a good fit within 72 hours

An update on the search for a pitching coach
Link Dump: Jeter, Joba, MLB vs. NFL

Via Buster Olney (Insider req’d), the Yankees are expected to make their first offer to Cliff Lee very soon, perhaps within the next 72 hours. Free agency officially opens at 12:01am Sunday morning, so eleven or so hours from now. Anthony McCarron backs Olney’s report up, for what it’s worth.

Unlike CC Sabathia, who the Yanks offered the largest pitching contract in history just as a starting point, the general belief is that they will not pursue Lee as aggressively. That’s not to say they don’t consider him a priority, but they’re just not as desperate as they were two winters ago. They can afford to make an initial offer that other clubs can presumably match, and go from there.

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An update on the search for a pitching coach
Link Dump: Jeter, Joba, MLB vs. NFL
  • JobaWockeeZ

    I don’t want to imagine the jumping if Lee isn’t signed. It’s almost a fact for some people. For the sake of them and the Yanks please sign soon Lee. Hopefully not at CC money though.

    • The Big City of Dreams

      Yea I have no problem with the Yankees going after him but when I hear ppl say the Yankees will offer 150-160 million I sit there and think it better not take that much to ink him.

      • KofH

        I hope it takes twice that to sign him, crippling an entire organization for half a decade.

        I also hope it’s not us!

        • The Big City of Dreams

          lol.

          Who would you want the Yankees to get if they don’t sign Lee?

          • JobaWockeeZ

            Joe’s mystery candidate whoever that may be. Someone guessed Annibal Sanchez which seems likely and I’d be down with that.

            • The Big City of Dreams

              I’d rather go for Josh Johnson but that would either be a reach or empty the farm

              • JobaWockeeZ

                I’d kill for Josh Johnson but it’ll take like nearly a Felix type package to get him.

                • The Big City of Dreams

                  Yea it would but a Yankee fan can dream can’t he lol

                • Ted Nelson

                  So instead you want Anibal Sanchez, whose name you can’t even spell?

              • http://www.retire21.org Mike R. – Retire 21

                Forget emptying the farm. A package for Johnson probably requires Gardner, Montero, Hughes and Man-Ban. Even then I’m not 100% sure Florida says yes.

                • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

                  Include Joba and Sladerunner and I bet they say yes.

                  • boogie down

                    I don’t know if Sladerunner is your creation but bravo, man, bravo.

                    • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

                      It is, and thank you.

                • Ted Nelson

                  Sometimes these packages get really excessive. Johnson was worth 6.3 WAR last season, so the Marlins will turn down a package that generated 7.8 WAR in the bigs, plus THE BEST hitting prospect in baseball who may play an up the middle position, and one of the best lefty starting prospects in baseball whose at AA at a young age? In what universe? This is a small budget team that would love to fill 2 rotation spots and 2 of its top 4 batting spots and maybe up the middle spots that cheaply. It would be a dream.

              • Ed

                I don’t think Florida will trade him unless a team plays double what he’s worth or something absurd like that.

                A large part of why he was signed long term was because MLB was complaining they weren’t spending enough money on payroll. If they didn’t up the payroll, MLB was going to reduce their revenue sharing payments.

                • Ted Nelson

                  If they get what they feel is a good, young, cheap package that is as good or better for their chances of winning than Johnson they can then address some other holes through free agency.

                  They might just not want to deal him, though, absolutely. He’s pretty decent :)

            • http://www.retire21.org Mike R. – Retire 21

              That was me.

              /Torn labrum from patting self on back’d

            • JSquared

              My guess is Tim Hudson… Mike said it was a pitcher currently in the NL who has pitched in the AL before.

              • JobaWockeeZ

                Mike already said it wasn’t Hudson.

            • Hughesus Christo

              No more AAAA pitchers. Thanks.

            • ZZ

              Anibal Sanchez is not formerly of the AL.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

                He was formerly the property of an AL team, maybe that’s close enough.

            • http://www.joelefkowitz.com joe lefko

              its gotta be johan, no?

            • TNeloms

              Is it possible it’s Haren? He’s had some bad BABIP luck, but I’m not sure if he fits the clues for whether he’s Joe’s mystery guy.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

                Haren is currently A.) on an American League team and B.) not remotely likely to be put on the trade market, so no, it’s not Haren.

            • Mike Mirabella

              Adam Wainwright.
              Think about it.

          • buckybleepindent

            A farm system that can provide pitcher with MLB stuff from the minor league.

      • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

        He’s said to want CC-like money. 5-125 is CC money. 6-150 is the same, just an extra year.

        My guess was 6-150 with a 10 mil signing bonus.

        • toad

          No. It’s not the same. You’re paying an extra $25 million to get his age 37 season.

    • LarryM.,Fl.

      I agree. The Yankees have more to offer than just money. Lee will get a very generous offer to pitch in the BIG Apple but the more he gets the less that the entire makeup of the team will suffer. Unless the Yankess fill in from within. The contracts for Lee, Jeter, Pettitte and MO take up all or just about all from the pot. The last American Leagure team to win in the last four years has been the Yanks. This hs weight, too.

      I don’t believe the Rangers can offer the money but if Mrs. Lee is a small town girl. No money short of a Wells Fargo truck pulling into the Lee driveway will get it done.

      I would not be unhappy becauese I like the developing from within especially when overpaying for a product not so much the money but years of contract.

      • Ted Nelson

        ” I like the developing from within especially when overpaying for a product not so much the money but years of contract.”

        Joba is the only real candidate from within who might step in and be one of the top 3 starters on the Yankees. And the Yankees said they are not starting him. So……… instead of simply giving money and a first rounder to fill a slot towards the top of the rotation, the Yankees would be looking at sacrificing the talent they are developing from within to get a starter… Double edged sword there.
        All Lee costs is money and a 1st rounder. He’s as good as any pitcher in baseball… Hard to complain.

        • http://twitter.com/firstheart42 seimiya

          Joba isn’t going to start – Cash made this clear.

          • The Big City of Dreams

            Unfortunately

  • MikeD

    Initial offer 5/100? That’s a $20 million average salary, so it’s a strong offer out of the gate. Then they’ll move upward from there.

  • Anthony Murillo

    Personally, I’m not so concerned about the money as I am about the years. Remember, he’s 32 (I believe) and I really hope the Yankees don’t ink him to a seven year contract. Hopefully it’s in the range of 4-6 years (hopefully 5 years).

  • http://theblogthatruthbuilt.com Craig

    Just get it done. The Yanks need Cliff Lee in the rotation if they want to compete for a titles in 2011 and 2012.

    • JobaWockeeZ

      No not really. They are playoff contenders right now. Lee will help tremendously but they can make other moves to get to World Series favorites.

      • Anthony Murillo

        Eh. The Yankees rotation, as is, only has three starters. Let’s assume Pettitte re-signs, there’s four. Whose the fifth starter? Nova?

        Sabathia/Hughes/Pettitte/Burnett/Nova

        That rotation doesn’t exactly scream confidence for me.

        Sabathia/Lee/Hughes/Pettitte/Burnett

        seems x100000 times better than the first.

        • bonestock94

          One is a very good rotation and the other is damn near an all star game pitching line-up. Substitute Nova for a midlevel FA pitcher and it’ll be fine, disappointing but still better than most.

          • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

            I disagree the first one is a very good rotation.

            Sabathia is great, Phil has 1 season of success as a starter, Pettitte is 39 and isn’t likely to avoid the DL, AJ was a mess, and Nova couldn’t go through the line up twice. That has the potential to turn bad quick. So if Pettitte only makes ~23 starts again, then thats 10 starts to the 6/7 starter, and if Nova fails then that’s more starts for the 6/7 starter, and if AJ needs to be skipped/bullpen’d then you go even further done the depth chart.

            • Mike Mirabella

              Lots of “if’s” and “ands”

        • JobaWockeeZ

          And Cliff Lee isn’t the only move the Yankees can make this offseason.

          Therotically the first rotation would be solid. CC is your ace. Hughes will likely improve with no limits attached. Pettitte has starts to make up when he was injured and Burnett can only go up from this point. Nova is a fine 5th starter.

          Yankees had the best run differential in baseball without Lee. The season won’t be a bust if Lee isn’t signed. It will be a lot harder but it’s not like we should give up if Lee isn’t signed.

          • http://twitter.com/Mattpat11 Matt DiBari

            Cliff Lee is the only pitching move worth making. The rest of the free agent class is horrific.

            I also think we’ve seen the best days of AJ Burnett. I don’t know if he’ll be as bad as he was this year, but I’m not sure he’ll ever be any good again.

            • Betty Lizard

              I love AJ (ducks) and it’s sad that the best we can hope for for him is “average” which is what I’m dreaming of for him for next year.

          • Ted Nelson

            “Therotically the first rotation would be solid. CC is your ace. Hughes will likely improve with no limits attached. Pettitte has starts to make up when he was injured and Burnett can only go up from this point. Nova is a fine 5th starter.”

            You realize how many assumptions you are making in that best case scenario? How about a bad case: Sabathia goes down, Hughes isn’t as good as this season, Pettitte retires/injured/ineffective, Burnett as wild as ever, and Nova busts… Likely it’s somewhere in between, which is why having another Ace in Lee would be great.

            • OldYanksFan

              That’s silly. That can be said of ANY team. Teams don’t win on paper. The players, including the pitchers, studs and role players, all have to step up.

              SF won this year because Huff, Uribe, Burrell and others stepped up. Their pitching alone was not enough.

              Last year, on paper, ARod, Teix, Jeter and Posada were a pretty solid group. However, on the ground, they all had poor years. If those 4 have close to career average years, we are in the WS, and maybe winners.

              Bad years from and injuries to key players on any team will derail it. What if we pay $130m for Lee and he has a bad year (109 ERA+ for Texas)? Or gets injured?

              There are NO guarantees in Baseball.

              • Ted Nelson

                I think it’s silly to assume that all 5 of your starters will have the best realistically imaginable year they could. That’s not going to happen more than a small fraction of the time. You missed my point and are not actually responding to the words I wrote. I clearly said: your case is the best case, it could just as easily be the worst case, most likely it is somewhere in between. Read my comment again.

                If you have the $ to add a clear-cut top of the rotation piece at a fairly young age for nothing but a 1st round pick to sure up a questionable rotation… that’s a pretty good opportunity.

                “Bad years from and injuries to key players on any team will derail it. What if we pay $130m for Lee and he has a bad year (109 ERA+ for Texas)? Or gets injured?”

                How can you call me silly and then do the exact same thing you *thought* I did (which is not actually what I did)?

                “There are NO guarantees in Baseball.”

                No, there aren’t. Again, if you actually read my comment you will see that’s exactly my point. The commenter assumes it’s a guarantee that CC is healthy and effective all year, Hughes is better than what is currently his only full season, Pettitte is dominant, Burnett can’t get worse, and Nova can be a decent big league starter. Not one of those things is a guarantee. Instead, you go with what you project is the most likely case scenario. You can project that the Yankees offense is likely to be very good. That it won’t be easy to upgrade the defense given who your questionable defenders are. The pitching, on the other hand, is a big question mark. Most likely scenario, adding Lee will make you pitching staff SUBSTANTIALLY better.

    • vinny-b

      no. Forget the “just get it done” philosophy. Your philosophy sucks.

      personally, i hope Cliff Lee signs with another team. Fantasy League baseball gets tired after a while

      • The Big City of Dreams

        Who do you think they should go after instead?

        • vinny-b

          first off, you don’t operate an organization with a “win at any cost” strategy from a year to year basis. It is this mindset which lead to the post-dynasty Torre years. It also leads to signings like AJ Burnett.

          my view? Check and recheck the trade market for a starting pitcher. If nothing materializes we move forward with what we have. Nova, Novesi, Brackman, Betances, Banuelos etc. Roll the dice, and find out what we have in the next 2 years. Additonally, Cashman has done an excellent job of picking up starting pitching off the scrap heap for reinforcements in the last few years. If the above doesn’t work out? Then we don’t get a WS next year, who cares…

          • http://twitter.com/Mattpat11 Matt DiBari

            I do.

          • The Big City of Dreams

            Good point the win at any cost mentality has been detrimental to the organization in some aspects. Unfortunately ppl within the Yankees and the fan base demand the same standard that the Boss required the team to have for many yrs. I wouldn’t mind them giving a couple of kids a real chance but I know it’s not likely they will.

            True if we don’t win next yr it won’t be the end of the world because the Yanks are one team whose window to win has been open since the 90’s.

            • vinny-b

              thank you. The logic/view you have is refreshing.

              • The Big City of Dreams

                You’re welcome

                • http://theblogthatruthbuilt.com Craig

                  I don’t know how long you two have been Yankees fans (could be longer than I have for all I know), but it certainly doesn’t seem like very long. There is certainly a time to let the young pitchers take their lumps and grow, but this isn’t the time.

                  I’m just a little surprised by the ease in which you’re willing to give up a strong shot at a World Series title. I almost never come across Yankees fans with such a nonchalant attitude towards winning.

          • Ted Nelson

            “first off, you don’t operate an organization with a “win at any cost” strategy from a year to year basis. It is this mindset which lead to the post-dynasty Torre years. It also leads to signings like AJ Burnett.”

            You realize that Lee has been as good as any pitcher in the world for 3 years and is not comparable to Burnett or other gross overpays, right? Why even mention those. It’s completely illogical. Get off your high horse for a minutes and look around.

            “Cashman has done an excellent job of picking up starting pitching off the scrap heap for reinforcements in the last few years.”

            ??? Gaudin? Moseley? Javy? Are you a Red Sox fan?

            “Then we don’t get a WS next year, who cares…”

            “Win at all costs” is better than “just lose baby.” Not that signing one of the best pitchers in the world for a market contract is winning at all costs. If the Yankees have a $200 million budget, why not deploy that in the best way possible? We’re still going to need whoever survives from the “Nova, Novesi, Brackman, Betances, Banuelos etc.” (prospects) to replace Pettitte, Burnett (likely), any unexpected injury/decline, Kerry Wood, Mo… You can’t just assume every guy you have in AA will be a great ML contributor in a couple years.

            • http://twitter.com/Mattpat11 Matt DiBari

              You forgot Ponson. Repeatedly.

          • http://theblogthatruthbuilt.com Craig

            F*ck that. That’s a loser’s mentality. I’m amazed by how many people are ready to let Noesi, Warren, the Killer B’s etc. compete for a 2011 rotation spot. All those guys are, essentially, Double-A pitchers who will be transitioning to Triple-A sometime in 2011-2012. Not to mention, whoever won that competition would be joining A.J. Burnett in the rotation creating a high likelihood for an L two out of every five games.

            And forget the damn trade market until that becomes the only option. Trading for the type of guy the Yanks need in their rotation is going to hurt them more down then road than signing Lee to a large contract.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        Fantasy League baseball gets tired after a while

        No, not really.

        • Poopy Pants

          It does for some people.

        • vinny-b

          it amounts to ‘hollow’ victories, via my perspective. As a NYY fan, am I in the minority with this mindset? Yup. It is my view, tho’

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

            That sounds like a “you” problem.

          • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

            Hollow victories? So if we sign Lee and then win the WS, you’ll be unhappy?

            • vinny-b

              when you buy the top free-agents every year, there is true joy, when you win it all.

              • vinny-b

                typo: no true joy

                continue to build via the farm system. At least until there is a ‘world draft’.

                • Ted Nelson

                  The current MLB structure is set up for the Yankees to spend $200 mill on payroll. If the Royals could spend that much and still make a bunch of money, they would. They can’t. Your problem is with MLB, not the Yankees. All the Yankees can do is the best they can within the system. Teams who draft high aren’t feeling bad for the Yankees and giving away top prospects to them. The Yankees shouldn’t do the same thing with free agents.

                  Take the Rays… I know they’ve done a good overall job of developing talent, but they “developed” David Price, Evan Longoria, Jeff Niemann, Delmon Young (traded for SS Jason Bartlett), and BJ Upton (a good chunk of their team) in large part because they had top 5 picks. The Rays also managed to pick up closer Rafael Soriano in what was largely a salary dump by the Braves (buying him). Is there more pride in being handed top 5 picks for awfulness than spending your money wisely in free agency? You can waste money in free agency as easily as spend it wisely. And a lot of the Yankees key parts are “homegrown” or acquired with “homegrown” talent.

                • http://theblogthatruthbuilt.com Craig

                  The Yankees and fans expect to win every year so how can a World Series victory be hollow when they have “only” won two titles since 2000?

                  A championship is a championship and its not like they’re guaranteed to win it. We’ve seen numerous times that other teams are more than capable of bouncing the Yanks from the postseason.

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                Maybe for you.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

                  Seriously, considering that the Yankees haven’t really “built from within” since, oh, the 1910s (back before we started winning titles), this seems like an odd thing for a Yankee fan to say.

                  This organization builds title contenders by buying the best possible talent available on the market, whether that’s amateur, professional, or international. That’s been our strategy since before the Great Depression.

                  If you don’t like winning with pricey superstars obtained from other teams, don’t root for the New York Yankees.

                  • OldYanksFan

                    Like Jeter, Posada, Bernie, Andy, Mo, Cano and Hughes you mean?

                    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

                      And how many rings did those men win without the help of Jimmy Key, David Cone, David Wells, Roger Clemens, Orlando Hernandez, Paul O’Neill, Tino Martinez, Chuck Knoblauch, Wade Boggs, Ruben Sierra, Darryl Strawberry, Tim Raines, Cecil Fielder, David Justice, C.C. Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, Mark Teixeira, Alex Rodriguez, Johnny Damon, Hideki Matsui, and Nick Swisher?

                      Let’s not act like our teams were homegrown. Every Yankee title EVER has been the result of key, primary contributions of high-priced imports from other teams.

                    • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

                      Just a point that no one ever addressed: Babe Ruth wasn’t home grown and he won 4 WS for us.

                      Were those hollow victories too?

          • Betty Lizard

            Let me just go on record, as a Yankees fan, that I am willing to sell my soul for such a “hollow” victory next year in the World Series.

            Satan? Are you listening?

            I feel the same way about hollow victories as I do about hollow chocolate Easter bunnies. Yum, yum, yum.

          • bonestock94

            I’d be lying if I said I don’t see where you’re coming from. As impossible as it is, sometimes I wonder what a salary capped world would be like. Watching a mostly homegrown team mostly devoid of overpaid money hungry mercenaries could be fun.

            • bonestock94

              Probably not as fun as watching our 3-4-5 shitting on other pitchers’ dreams though.

              • http://theblogthatruthbuilt.com Craig

                True.

                And doesn’t a trade for a big name player fall somewhere in between signing a big name free agent and producing a home-grown player? There are a lot of guys in TSJC’s list that can’t be lumped into the “bought” category.

  • http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S

    So in the “what if we don’t sign Lee?” vein,
    when is it considered a major fuck-up by this organization to make Joba a non-starter?

    • Carlosologist

      You mean it wasn’t already a major fuck-up?

    • The Big City of Dreams

      When there there injuries or ineffectiveness to the rotation and the only replacements are retreads or young kids that are rushed/not ready

      • Poopy Pants

        Too late. 2010 just happened.

        • The Big City of Dreams

          Ooops lol

    • whozat

      It has been for a year already. Shoulda just picked a role and stuck with it, and not let him get wrapped up in the talk-radio-driven “gunslinger” nonsense. He could make more money and contribute more to the team winning by succeeding as a starter. They did BOTH parties a disservice by doing what they did.

      • The Big City of Dreams

        That’s the things they have picked a role but it’s clear that no one is ok with it. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up on another team. I think a change in scenery will do him well because how he has been handled by the Yankees is a joke.

        • whozat

          THey have picked a role…now. Two years ago, all the shenanigans were ridiculous. They should have just let him start and shut him down when he was done. He actually had a fine year as a starter in 2008 til he got hurt, and was pretty much a normal, promising young starter in 2009 — flashes of brilliance mixed in with aggravating inconsistency.

          • The Big City of Dreams

            Yea it would have been easier to just shut him down especially since he finished the yr pitching in the pen. Now we’re left with a middle reliever that’s inconsistent smh

    • JobaWockeeZ

      I considered it when Pettitte went down and when Vazquez died as a pitcher. Another starter was needed. If Joba was a starter in AAA honing his stuff he would have been better than Vazquez. Joba actually could have pitched better than Vazquez when he was like 8.

      Sure in the AL East every win is important but Joba wasn’t exactly a valuable player.

      • The Big City of Dreams

        Vasquez killed this team so many times. game 7 04, giving up Arodys Vizcaino, making 11 million dollars while only giving the team 2 months of good production,blocking Joba from starting, etc.

    • The Big City of Dreams

      Can someone tell me why they felt the need to announce they see Joba as a back end bullpen guy? Let’s say they actually want to shop him what team in their right mind is going to give the Yankees something decent or good when he was completely phased out of his late inning duties. He was a mop-up guy in the PS and kinda became a non entity when Wood was acquired from the Tribe. Why does it seem like they are going to have a “we’ll show you attitude” in order prove they can salvage him as a reliever.

      • Poopy Pants

        They thought he might possibly have some trade value and wanted to make sure it was all destroyed.

        • The Big City of Dreams

          it all makes sense now lol

  • Doug

    2011 is his age 33 season. I’m okay giving him CC-money ($23M/per). Opening offer of 4 years (ages 33-36) for $92M. Be willing to add a 5th year for total of $115M. No more than 5 years, though….age 37 season is it.

    • http://www.retire21.org Mike R. – Retire 21

      This is the exact same thought I was going to express down to the numbers.

  • YankeesJunkie

    5/105 or 5/110 sounds like a good starting place for Lee.

  • lulu3459

    I’ve been reading this site and everyones comments for about two years now and I love it keep up the good work.I just wanted to know if anybody else is as nervous as I am about giving a 32 year old pitcher (Lee) more than 5 years?

    • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

      Nervous? A little bit.

      Concerned? Not at all.

      If they have to pay a premium (in years) to get him they should. Almost all long term contracts end up being a year or two too long. The Yankees have the best ability of any team to absorb the extra year and bite the bullet if necessary when it happens. I’d much, much rather give him 3 or 4 years but have no problem with 5.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        Old Lady: Nervous?
        Ted Striker: Yes.
        Old Lady: First time?
        Ted Srtiker: No, I’ve been nervous lots of times.

        • nsalem

          30th DVD Anniversary Edition On Sale Now at your local defunct video store.
          AKA “Flying High” in New Zealand

    • http://theblogthatruthbuilt.com Craig

      Definitely more nervous about the thought of not having Cliff Lee in the rotation.

  • Ted Nelson

    “they’re just not as desperate as they were two winters ago. They can afford to make an initial offer that other clubs can presumably match, and go from there.”

    I don’t know… If they don’t sign Lee and Pettitte retires, who are their 4th and 5th starters? Burnett is their #3 starter.

    As far as waiting for another team to match, that may play right into Texas’ hands as they can blow him away with a bigger offer (around what the Yankees would have been willing to pay in the end) while sealing the deal with the goodwill from their WS run.
    On the other hand, maybe the Yankees are preparing for a bidding war and don’t want to start high figuring the Rangers are going to match pretty much any first offer.

    • Chris

      I don’t think they’re desperate, but I also don’t buy the argument that they won’t break the bank for him. Cashman clearly covets him (he’s tried to trade for him twice), and he fills an obvious need.

      Also, I have a feeling that Pettitte will feel some level of obligation to come back if the Yankees don’t sign Lee.

      • Ted Nelson

        I don’t know if they are “desperate” but my point is why are they any less desperate now than when they signed CC? They could have done other things and lived without CC, too, but they decided not to.

        I’m not going to make any assumptions about Pettitte’s decision making process until he announces a final decision.

        • http://theblogthatruthbuilt.com Craig

          If A.J. Burnett is the Yankees’ No. 3 starter going into 2011 they are not making the playoffs.

          Period. End of story. Get ready for 2012.

  • TLVP

    Desperate? Maybe not but how often does a pitcher of Lee’s capabilities hit the free agency market? CC in 2008 certainly but before that? Was it Mussina?

    Given who the Yankees are and fact that we will not get a decent draft pick for like 100 years we have very little choice but to go all out. The organisation can afford it, start at 5/115 and go to 150/6 if needed.

  • http://bloodfarm.tumblr.com matt damon wayans

    I know it’s not mainstream RAB, but I would much rather beat him than own him.

    • TLVP

      Sure – however we don’t seem to be able to do that so its owning him or losing to him… We’ll pay him not so much to play for us but to not play against us ;-)

      • http://bloodfarm.tumblr.com matt damon wayans

        Lame. Lame like curses and magic. The Yankees have beaten Cliff Lee and could do it again.

        • Sean C

          True, but Cliff Lee will make the rotation so much better. The Yankees theoretically would only have to face him maybe a handful of times during the season (depending upon which team he signs with). But, 32 starts FOR the Yankees? That would be THE best Yankee rotation in years. I hope you realize that.

        • TLVP

          Hope you saw the sign off

    • Ted Nelson

      So do you just believe in no free agency and no trades? Players are locked into whatever team drafts or signs them?

  • OldYanksFan

    It is simply impossible to maintain a dynasty by always buying and/or trading prime prospects for the latest shiny toy. This team was built from the farm. Mo, Po, Andy, Bernie and Derek. The shiny toys are needed to put you over the top, but they must sit on a solid core to do so.

    Aside from Jeter, the other kids were not that highly thought of. Neither was Cano. It’s often hard to see a diamond in the rough.

    We might get lucky again. Maybe Cano is a star for another decade. Maybe Hughes reaches his potential. It’s taken many pitchers years to work it out. Look at Lee. Maybe we shouldn’t give up on a talent like Joba. Maybe Montero will be great. Maybe Gritner is solid for quite a while. Maybe D-Rob surprises us. Maybe Nova becomes part of the next core.

    Looking at the contracts of ARod, Teix and CC, and add 3 more years of Jeter and AJ, I don’t believe the risk/reward scenerio for a $100m+ Lee is worth it. We might not be the favorites every year, but this team can still Win without Lee. And if we buy Lee, we also lose another pick.

    We may not have won this year, but watching Cano, Gritner, Phil, Nunez and Nova was a great pleasure this year. I look forward to seeing Jesus next year, and a bunch of other talent soon.

    It would be nice if fans supported developing some of our own players, and hording our draft picks.

    Lee doesn’t really want to be a Yankee. Swisher did. Lee does not fit well in NY, and will only come if he is blown away with dollars. I say pass. The money is better spent elsewhere.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      Virtually nothing you said is accurate.

    • TLVP

      The money is better spent on what? Crawford?

      • OldYanksFan

        Nope… not Crawford.
        How about any of the hundreds of players that will be available in 2011, and 2012, and 2013? Is MLB being contacted after next year?

        • Hughesus Christo

          Who? Superstars don’t hit free agency anymore. Certainly not at the pace or age ranges you seem to have imagined.

          • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

            CC and Tex were the exceptions. You rarely see 26-28 year old already established superstars hit free agency.

            Hughesus Christo is right. I mean look at Tulo, Longo, JJ, Felix, J.Upton, Verlander, you can be sure that Lincecum and Posey will be extended in short order Those are all legit young superstars.

          • Poopy Pants

            “Superstars don’t hit free agency anymore.”

            Lee, Jeter, Crawford, Werth, Mariano. Posada did. Manny did. Teix did. CC did. AJ did.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

              As long as Scott Boras is around, there will be superstars on the open market.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

              Allow me to requote Hughesus Christo, emphasis mine:

              Superstars don’t hit free agency anymore. Certainly not at the pace or age ranges you seem to have imagined.

              Crawford, Sabathia, and Tex are about the only ones of those named who hit free agency on the right side of 30. That was his point of emphasis.

              • TLVP

                plus Werth is not a superstar

    • steve (different one)

      so the 30th pick in the draft should stop us from signing one of the 5 best pitchers in baseball?

      no idea where you got the part about Lee not wanting to be a Yankee and the part about Swisher.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        no idea where you got the part about Lee not wanting to be a Yankee and the part about Swisher.

        Especially since the Swisher reference is pretty moot, as he didn’t sign here of his own volition, he was traded here and had no say in the matter.

      • OldYanksFan

        Maybe because everytime Swisher is interviewed, he talks about how much he loves being a Yankee. How great it is. How it’s a dream come true. And someofabiatch, if he doesn’t play for us like he loves it.

        Beltran was willing to play for us for $10m LESS then the Mets offered. Think Cliffy will give us the same deal? Did you enjoy that other Texas guy, Randy Johnson, as a Yankee?

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          Did you enjoy that other Texas guy, Randy Johnson, as a Yankee?

          What? Randy Johnson’s from California.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

            But he pitched for the Houston Astros for a month or two. Thus, he’s a Texas guy.

            Q.E.D.

          • sleepykarl

            Cliff Lee’s from Arkansas too. I guess the theme is 1/2 a season with a Texas located team means they are a Texas guy.

            • JAG

              At least Arkansas is kinda sorta closer to Texas. I think the guy he must have been thinking of was Kenny Rogers, but he was further back in memory so the emotional response wouldn’t have been as great. And since he had no actual point, he had to maximize the emotion.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          Maybe because everytime Swisher is interviewed, he talks about how much he loves being a Yankee. How great it is. How it’s a dream come true. And someofabiatch, if he doesn’t play for us like he loves it.

          Everything you just said is true, awesome, and utterly and totally irrelevant to anything that anyone is talking about.

        • http://mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

          Did Swisher talk about how much he loved being a Yankee before he was, you know, actually a Yankee?

        • Ted Nelson

          That guy actually from Texas–which neither RJ nor CL is–Roger Clemens did ok as a Yankee… I did enjoy having him as a Yankee for the most part.

    • http://twitter.com/tjamato T.J.

      Erroneous, what player doesn’t want to be a Yankee? We’re the greatest franchise in the world.

    • Ted Nelson

      ????

      You realize that signing Cliff Lee and developing prospects is not mutually exclusive, right? You realize it will cost the Yankees no one currently in their farm system to acquire Lee? Montero, Sanchez, Banuelos, Betances, Brackman, Romine, Noesi, Nunez, Slade, Laird, Ramirez, Marshall, Nova, Adams, etc… all those guys can still reach their potentials (not that all will) with Lee in pinstripes.

      Who are you to say that Swisher wanted to be a Yankee and Lee doesn’t? Since Swisher had zero choice in the matter and Lee will have 100% choice as a free agent, that’s hard to substantiate.

  • sleepykarl

    Someone said MLB Network was reporting the Yankees were going to offer Lee 5/$175M, that cannot be correct can it?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      $35M a year? Sure, why not.

      • sleepykarl

        I didn’t see it, but my guess is that Mitch Williams opened up a can of dyslexia on it.

  • OldYanksFan

    I guess my point is, I agree with the opinions of a number of knowledgable people, including Steve Goldman, that believe a 5 yr/$110m+ deal for a 32 year old Cliff Lee, is not a smart deal in the long run.

    I don’t think signing Jeter for more then 3 years is a smart deal.

    I don’t think signing Crawford (for $10m+ more then Gardner makes) is a smart deal.

    I’ve been a Yankees fan since 1965. I’ve seen plenty of losing and plenty of bad deals. I’ve become a fan of smart deals.

    I don’t think Cashman signs Lee.

    • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

      I’ve been a fan since the 90s (I’m only 24, mind you) I’m a fan of smart deals too.

      Cliff Lee is a smart deal.

      ergo I’m a fan.

    • It’sATarp

      What? It would not be smart for cashman for not offer cliff lee a deal seeing as a pitcher of his caliber does not come on the market often and the only way for us to get another pitcher as good is by emptying the farm. Cashman would be an idiot to make play for Lee, who is a lefty that ages well. If Lee doesn’t sign it wouldn’t because Cashman isn’t going to try, it would be because Lee doesn’t want to come.

      • OldYanksFan

        Make a play? Sure. Offer 4/$84. But we know that won’t do it. I’m assuming it will take at least a 5 year deal and $110m. And it could be a lot more, depending on how serious Texas is. I’m not sure who else is in the game. The Mets maybe? They’re pretty desparate. Maybe the Angels with Lee beat Texas without Lee, but I don’t think they have the dough.

    • Sean C

      Regardless of what you think is a “smart deal” or not, Cashman and the Yankees are going to do what they plan to do. Signing Cliff Lee will make the Yankees’ rotation MUCH better. Who is the other internal option? Nova? Yeah, sign Lee.

    • DJH116

      One thing you need to keep in mind also is by having a strong top of the rotation it helps you break in young pitchers in the future from the minors. My point being if you just have a good top 3 starters you can’t really afford to break in 1 or 2 prospects at the bottom of the rotation because it just would not be reliable enough.

      While having a elite top 3 of CC,Lee,Hughes allows you to break in one of our top young arms in a year or 2 because even if they struggle your other starters can carry the staff.

    • JerseyDutch

      I guess my point is, I agree with the opinions of a number of knowledgable people, including Steve Goldman, that believe a 5 yr/$110m+ deal for a 32 year old Cliff Lee, is not a smart deal in the long run.

      That deal actually seems pretty smart both in terms of money and years for the level of talent we’re getting. I wouldn’t want to go past five years though.

      I don’t think signing Jeter for more then 3 years is a smart deal.

      Depends a bit on the money. If it was four years at $80m, I’d pass. Four years at $60m and I’d sign him. The latter in terms of $/year probably won’t happen.

      I don’t think signing Crawford (for $10m+ more then Gardner makes) is a smart deal.

      Agreed there. Crawford’s not worth the marginal upgrade over Gardner at that money.

      • Sean C

        “I don’t think signing Crawford (for $10m+ more then Gardner makes) is a smart deal.
        Agreed there. Crawford’s not worth the marginal upgrade over Gardner at that money.”

        I had to drop truth bombs on my friend about Gardner the other night. GGBG is a surefire gold glove LF, can play great CF in a pinch, runs the bases like demon (aka pretty damn well), and got on base at a better clip than Crawford last season. Sure, Gardner doesn’t have the power of Crawford, but that’s not his role. He gets on base and uses his speed. If he can replicate his 2010 season, the Yankees will be just fine (and have plenty of $$$ to wisely spend elsewhere where an upgrade is actually needed). And, I pretty much just elaborated on what you said…

  • OldYanksFan

    Just a different view:
    http://www.theyankeeu.com/

    • http://theblogthatruthbuilt.com Craig

      Different, but wrong. Please excuse me for being an overly opinionated a**hole with this next comment, but anybody happy with the alternate idea of the Killer B’s filling out the rotation to start 2011 is CRAZY – not that you, specifically, indicated that you are in favor of this particular idea.

      I should not even have to go into detail on the foolishness of this idea. There is not a chance that the Yankees go the Killer B route to start 2011. You have to give Cash credit for not overplaying his hand, but I wonder how many people believe him.