December bombshell: Lee signs with the Phillies


Right mound. Wrong team. (AP Photo/David J. Phillip)

After days of hand-wringing by fans of the Yankees and the Rangers, the Cliff Lee saga came to a stunning conclusion when the Philadelphia Phillies landed their once and future lefthander. According to reports, Lee will sign a five-year deal worth approximately $120 million guaranteed with a vesting option for a sixth year. The Yankees, for the first time since Greg Maddux signed with the Braves nearly 20 years ago, are left empty-handed as the Number One item on their Hot Stove wishlist slipped away to a mystery team.

For the Yankees, this shocking turn of events caps off a week and a half of rumors galore. The baseball world had held its breath over the weekend as Lee debated whether or not to take an offer to remain in Texas or join the Yanks. Still, rumblings of a mystery team would not die, and according to numerous reports, the Phillies leaped into the fray this weekend when Lee made it be known that he was itching to return to Philadelphia.

After all of the hours of silence and the countless cries of “what does it mean,” the Yankees are once again left Lee-less. Perhaps they dodged a bullet when the Mariners backed out of a trade that would have sent Jesus Montero to Seattle in exchange for Lee. Perhaps the Yanks would have gotten just four months of Lee and six years of pining for Montero. We’ll never know, and we’ll leave that hand-writing to the Rangers who got their first World Series appearance but gave up Justin Smoak in the process. They’re arguably worse off than the Yankees today.

For the Bombers, the only question that remains — and I say only heavily — is about the future. What comes next? Were the season to start tomorrow — and it does not — the rotation would feature CC Sabathia, Phil Hughes, A.J. Burnett, Sergio Mitre and Ivan Nova (if the club, as rumor has it, is intent on keeping Joba in the pen). Come Opening Day, that won’t be the rotation. The Yanks will court Andy Pettitte and hope that he has enough faith in his aging body to take the ball for another year.

But beyond Pettitte, what’s out there in the great unknown of the trade market? We saw the Blue Jays surrender Shawn Marcum for Brett Lawrie. So we know that trades can be made and pitchers acquired. We hear that the White Sox will shop Mark Buehrle, that the Cardinals may make some arms available, that Zack Greinke, despite the Yanks’ concerns about his mental make-up, can be had. We think the Marlins might part with Ricky Nolasco, and we don’t know about countless other pitchers. We know injuries guys like Brandon Webb remain available. We know that the Yanks have money and prospects. They can make a deal.

So we’ll lick our wounds and perhaps rock ourselves to sleep tonight. The Yanks and their millions rarely lose out. They offered Lee $148 million — six years at $22 million with a seventh year player option for $16 million — and club officials now believe Lee never wanted to come to New York. That’s the way the cookie crumbles. What happens next will be a test of GM Brian Cashman, and the 95-win Yanks who missed the World Series by two wins this year will be just fine by the time pitchers and catchers report. Lee will always be the one who got away.

Categories : Hot Stove League


  1. mbonzo says:

    Congratulations to the Phillies.
    Can’t wait to see what Cashman will counter with.

    • Elan says:

      What else is there to do? The free agent pitching market is now thin as ever and the only player confirmed to be a possible trade option, Zack Grienke, would not fit in in New York. Cashman really blew this one. I think his stupidest statemet (and one that could have had significant impact on Lee’s decision, even if Lee will never admit it) was when he said that the Yankees were “not desperate for Lee.” There’s no way George Steinbrenner would have said something like that when pursuing the best free agent on the market. I miss George’s might and the way he always did everything possible to get the best people.

      • JP says:

        I don’t think this is Cash’s fault at all. He gave Lee the best deal possible and Lee just turned his nose at us.

        • Lefftee says:

          Seriously are you kidding me. Casman got out hustled by Amaro and Theo and we haven’t upgraded our team yet. He let the best left reliever sign else where, we have no catcher that is proven, or a right handed bat off the bench and we need another lefty reliever, not to mention we have Nova nd mitre 4 and 5 which is pathetic. What else would you call it

          • Elan says:

            I totally agree – Cashman has been awful of late. He;s starting to look like Omar Minaya.

            • How is he starting to look like Omar? He offered Lee a high offer and he took a pay cut to go to Phillie. How is that remotely his fault and if he was Omar he would have overpaid for some terrible player.

              I am prepared for a lot of Cashman sucks but you people really need to look at this and see it is not his fault at all.

            • Christian says:

              Please, please don’t say that.

            • It'sATarp says:

              Really giving Lee the beast contract and making him the second highest pitcher EVER is somehow him not doing his job trying to get Cliff Lee here? What else could he have done? make staten island into a hunting reserve so Lee can go there and enjoy his hunting?

            • Bo says:

              Cash’s been used and abused as of late, getting used by the Mariners and Rangers at the trade deadline, and now by Lee’s agent and Amaro. Both times, the processes dragged on too long without Cashman exploring his Plan B’s in the meantime, especially this time. Our FO looks like a weak joke.

              Plus, I’d have been going after bullpen depth hard and heavy while this soap opera dragged on. Cash hasn’t, and if he comes up with the usual cast of stiffs instead of being creative and making some good deals happen, even the new version of Steinbrenner ownership needs to wonder if someone else could be doing his job a whole lot better.

            • hogsmog says:

              So would you have rather had him sign/trade for some other FA early in the offseason, completely abandoning every chance at landing Lee? Do you really think that if he didn’t go hard after Lee, right now you’d be saying “we lost Lee to such a low deal, if Cash went hard we could have had him easy”?

          • gargoyle says:

            What has Theo done other than way overpay for Crawford and accept a gift from an old friend in SD? Spare me the Theo worship please.

      • C says:

        Um, I’m pretty sure Lee didn’t turn down $50 million extra just because Cashman hurt his feelings. He didn’t want to play in New York, that’s it.

        • BklynJT says:

          It’s not even 50 mil (6th yr option with Phillies will likely vest), its more like 1yr/16mil from the Yankees, or 1yr/23mil from the Rangers.

        • mbonzo says:

          Or he just loved the Phillies. He gets to be surrounded by pitching talent now.

          • Eric Young says:

            Which is EXACTLY why we should have been securing our bullpen in advance of the pitch for Lee. Who’s our 8th inning guy? What’s our plan post-Mo? Cashman’s multi-tasking sucks.

            • JCP says:

              yeah, because signing middle relievers to large contracts ALWAYS works out.

              I’m a Yankees fan, have been almost my whole life, but the most embarrassing thing about being a Yankees fan is the kind of whining happening here.

              seriously guys, have some perspective. you have seen your favorite team win the World Series at least five times. so the Yankees missed out on a coveted free agent for the first time since 1993. try being the Royals.

              y’all sound like spoiled babies, and it’s little wonder why the rest of the baseball world despises Yankees fans.

              • mbonzo says:

                I agree. Yankees still have a top 5 team even without Lee. Amazing how everyone forgets how good they were without him.

              • OldYanksFan says:

                Thank you so much for saying that. I have been a fan since ’65… and have literally seen it all. I’m sickened by the entitlement some ‘fans’ feel, thinking the Yankees should just flood the market with dollars so we can ALWAYS get the newest shiny toy.

                The Yankees are much better off now. No, not for 2011… it may be a tough year. But for an aging team saddled with long, expensive (and ultimately unfruitful) contracts, the last thing we needed was giving 7/$162m to a pitcher.

                So girls… maybe we will have to take a look at some kids. Maybe we will sit back a year or 2 and start building the next dynasty.

                I’ll bet Cashman is relieved.

                • LarryM.,Fl. says:

                  I have been a fan since ’56 or ’57 too young to remember. Can’t blame Cashman or the front office. They did their homework put the best deal out there. Lee selected Phila. Fabulous starting rotation good offense and defense but can they sustain the year to year act of reloading.

                  Lee earned his right to FA. He was rewarded.

                  Now, we’ll see how good Cashman is to pick quality from the rumble of starting pitching. This team does not need CY Young award pitchers to win the WS. I believe that Cashman knows his job and will do well with the revamping. Don’t be surprised if Martin goes to Boston because of the belief in a better team assembled to our North.

                • The Big City of Dreams says:

                  Why would he be relieved?

            • mbonzo says:

              I meant in the rotation. Phillies bullpen blows. Face it, he’s got more of a chance to be successful on Phillie. He’s gonna be surrounded by Aces and be pitching in the national league. This ups his stats, he loves Phili, and I bet he can still move to NJ and chill with CC’s family.

            • The Yankees still have options here. They could and should rethink going after Greinke; talk to the kid and the Royals and find out where his head is at. If he still has some interest in playing in NY, he’s more than worth taking a second look at.

              Andy Pettitte could still come back. We won a WS just two seasons ago with Sabathia, Burnett, Pettitte, Hughes and an awful Joba Chamberlain. I’d argue that if the Yankees can’t trade for an SP, Ivan Nova, even as a novice, would be an upgrade from Joba as a starter.

              As far as an eight inning guy, Kerry Wood is still available and the Yankees said last week that they wanted him back. Wood’s name hasn’t been burning up the hot stove talk of potential suitors; with the Yankees situation now, he has a little more leverage to get the kind of money he’ll want. Get Wood, then bring down one of the Killer B’s to help fill up the bullpen, my preference would be Brackman.

      • BklynJT says:

        What does that have to do us losing Cliff Lee. Lee wanted to go to the Rangers and once they made a reputable offer, he jumped on it. Don’t believe in anyway that Lee’s agent wasn’t in touch with the Phillies and letting them know Lee would of signed if they made a good offer.

      • Real Siskel says:

        So SICK of Steinbrenner worship from Yankee fans with no memory prior to 1996. He made the franchise a laughingstock x many years, actually kept free agents away with his childish antics FOR YEARS. Core 4 exist in spite of him, not because of him. Worship Stick and Buck and George’s failing health if you love the dynasty. I mean, really: he paid a scumbag to dig up dirt on Dave Winfield because Winfield squawked when George didn’t honor their contract. Class all the way.

        • OldYanksFan says:

          Tell it like it is Brother. Looking back, in totality, I can now appreciate George and backing his desire to Win with his checkbook. But he was a terrible GM. TERRIBLE! Anyone wonder why Maddux and Bonds and many others said NO to the Yankees?

          RIP George… but you should have given Cashman full control years before you did.

    • Eric Young says:

      Q: Where is the Yankees most glaring weakness?

      A: General Manager.

      Cashman is the failure here, and on multiple levels.

      Most egregiously, Cashman failed to recognize that NYY is no longer the only team that can wave a big pocketbook at a FA.

      Second, he has consistently failed to correctly identify secondary motivations of his desired target, leading us to repeatedly overpay.

      Third, he underestimates his competitors. In this off-season, Cashman was completely owned by both Amaro (who signed Halliday once and Lee twice in just the last 17 months!) and by Epstein.

      Fourth, his stategies are poorly constructed. this month, while awaiting the outcome of his Plan A, he failed to keep his Plan B in play (and then justified it by saying there was no Plan B).

      The following events are now more likely than they were one month ago:
      –Pettitte does not return for 2011.
      –Sabathia exercises opt-out after 2011 (and why wouldn’t he? 2012 NYY has Jeet at short, maybe still A-Rod at third, a no-defense Montero at C, and Mo’s last year – if he’s still got one left?)

      That we were so utterly reliant on a single FA heading into 2011 is of Cashman’s making.

      Not securing that single FA – with all the monetary and non-monetary resources the NYY have – is a completely fail.

      • bexarama says:

        You can’t blame Cashman for setting us up to need that single FA then, when Cashman does everything in his power to get said FA, blame him for not getting him.

      • Charlie says:

        It is amazing how quickly our fans will point fingers when our hopes and dreams don’t come through. When the much weaker 2010 Yankees did not win the World Series, it was all Girardi’s fault, which was mind blowing for me at the time. Now that we do not sign Lee, it is Cashman’s fault? Are you guys really thinking this through?

        Let me respond point by point

        1.) I am not sure what this contributes to why Lee left. Cashman surely knows that there are big spenders out there. I seem to recall the Red Sox giving a certain Japanese pitcher an insane bonus, signing Manny Ramirez to a kingly contract, giving John Lackey an AJ Burnett contract, etc.

        2.) Secondary motivation? When Cliff’s primary motivation was GET TO PHILADELPHIA AT ALL COSTS, what other weapon does Cashman have? Money, money, money. That is what the yankees have. He did his best for any other motivations, repeatedly visiting Cliff, courting him and his agent during the winter meetings, having CC try to convince him to come to NY, etc. What was he supposed to do? I could also point to other negotiations in the past where primary objective was to avoid NY and Cashman convinced the player to sign in NY anyways, Sabathia of course comes to mind. Cashman has a fantastic track record on having all the bases covered, and that is why he still has a job.

        3.)This is similar to one in that it has little relevance to Lee. Cashman has no mind control, and cannot convince certain players to come to NY. He made a better offer for Lee back in July, a better offer for him now, and still did not get him. So should he have gotten Adrian Gonzalez? We have Tex. What about Crawford. I think I will pass when Brett Gardner is putting up ridiculous numbers at $450,000 a year. How much are the red sox paying crawford again? oh right, $20 mill a year. ouch.

        4.) Finally, this is the point that everyone seems to be overlooking. When you are prepared to hand a player $25 million a year, you can have no backup plan. What was Cash supposed to do? Go out and give Grant Balfour a Benoit contract? In 2013 we are going to have a-rod, sabathia, tex, jeter, burnett, and could have had lee on the payroll. rounding off salaries, that is about 131 million on the payroll. If Mo is still around, that number inflates to $146, which is just ridiculous. I mean holy cow man, that is a lot of money! We still need 2 more starters, a catcher, bench players, and an entire bullpen. So, back to the original point, Cash had no idea how he was going to be allocating resources. Now we know, and I am sure we are going to go out and get some quality bullpen arms, as there are still plenty available. But let us consider something else. There really is no plan B. I actually kind of want to hear what you think. mark buehrle? chris carpenter? zach greinke? They all have major faults. It was pretty much Lee or bust…

        Other than that, you are correct. Most likely Pettite will not return, and our rotation is screwed. If everyone here wants to insult Cashman, they should all be thinking about one person. A-rod. That contract always will be unforgivable. Who the hell were the Yankees betting against on that one? Who was going to bid even close to that? It was a horrible, horrible contract, and guys like Jeter, our real franchise players, have every right to be upset. What all this comes down to is that we need a monster year from the offense. It is time for A-rod to get over that hip injury, Tex to get over his April-May-June-September blues, Montero to come into his own, Jeter to rebound, and for Cano, Swisher, Gardner, and Granderson to have repeat performances. Can they all do that? Only time will tell.

        • Eric Young says:

          I appreciate the thoughtful counterpoints, Charlie.

        • marty l says:

          charlie- you are absolutely right. great post. everyone else – read charlie’s post and stop whining. this is not cashman’s fault. A ROD, that was “hank’s deal. at least he’s back on the horse farm hopefully for good.

          • Let’s get off the A-Rod bashing for once shall we. What does his contract have to do with Lee not signing? The Yankees were still able to make Lee a MONSTER offer in spite of Arod’s and he turned it down. Face it, he wanted to play in Philly. There is no one to blame here; if he accepted a 5-year deal over 7, he obviously wanted to pitch in Philly. To even mention A-Rod in any of this is absolutely ridiculous.

            It really bothers me how quickly the so-called “Greatest Fans in the World” chump out and start pointing fingers when they don’t get things to go their way. This is baseball. Anything can happen; there’s no absolute GUARANTEE that the Yankees would win it all next year with Lee. Haven’t we signed big names before only to not even make it out of the first round of the playoffs? Can you say Big Unit??

        • LadyT says:

          It’s about time someone wrote a common sense comment. Amen Charlie! I agree 100% Plus the fact that the Phillies kick him in the rear after 2009 and now he goes whimpering back. I don’t think any 32 year old pitcher no matter how good he is now is worth 7 years and 20-23 million a year.

        • paul a says:

          lee left because his wife is afraid of getting spit on

        • toad says:

          Well said.

    • Nick says:

      Yeah Phillies are gonna be great for the next 2-3 years but can you imagine an againg Halladay, Oswalt, and Lee all on your books. Not worth it.

  2. Andrew says:

    So how much money did he leave on the table? And could the Phillies rotation be one of the best in the modern era?

    • SamVa says:

      “one of the best”

      I think it is the best.

      You have arguably the best lefty and the best righty in the game, behind that you have a former ace and a power sinkerballer who at times makes you think he is an ace. They can basically go get whoever they want as their fifth starter and have him pitch to a 5 era and you still have the best rotation in modern era baseball. IMHO

      • Andrew says:

        I agree I think this is the best rotation baseball has ever seen and with the offense the Phillies have that team is scary good, I just cant believe he left two guaranteed years on the table

      • Januz says:

        I certainly don’t think the Phillies rotation is the “Best In Modern Times”. What about the Braves who had 2 300 game winners (Glavine & Maddox), who are First Ballot Hall Of Famers, and Smoltz who will join them. As far as the best lefty and righty in the game, where do Lester, Hernandez & Lincecom rank? They must be in the discussion.

    • BklynJT says:

      Probably didn’t leave much on the table at all. He signed for 5/115 or 6/~138 if the option vests.

      Surprised that the Rangers actually had the highest offer. Good to see Cashman show some restraint. Hopefully he doesnt make any bad trades as a result of losing out on Lee.

      • Andrew says:

        That puts above Roy which surprises me I can’t believe the Phillies went that high

      • Lefftee says:

        Cashman needs to go back to that building he scaled a week ago and just stay there. He is horrible

        • He’s horrible because Lee turned down $10 million to pitch where he wanted to go. Yeah, that’s logical. Please.

          • Eric Young says:

            He should have never been so open about how “badly” we needed Lee. Everyone knew it, of course. But Cash cornered himself by bending over and spreading his cheeks in public. He could have and should have been making moves early on to show that the team was being shored up in the pen.

            • AndrewYF says:

              And that would have affected the situation…how?

              Thank GOD he didn’t sign Scott Downs for > $15M. Fans make infinitely worse GMs than their team’s actual GM. Unless you were a Mariners fan in the age of Bill Bavasi, then you can be just as bad. I mean, the front office of the #6org is doing everything the ‘intelligent’ fans want and they’re just as bad.

            • The Big City of Dreams says:

              That’s the issue the Yankees had to get Lee and made it known to everyone involved how badly they needed him. It’s not his fault that he went somewhere else…it’s his fault that the Yankees were in a situation to be that desperate.

      • Eric Young says:

        Hopefully he doesnt make any bad trades as a result of losing out on Lee.

        Cash is in the last year of his contract. He’ll give up the whole damn farm if he has to (and he probably will have to).

  3. Tom Zig says:


    It is both good and bad news.

  4. It'sATarp says:

    is this the place we all go and say WHAT THE FUCK

  5. Yyzz says:

    Joba to the rotation.

  6. Pat D says:

    Hope you have got your things together.
    Hope you are quite prepared to die.
    Looks like we’re in for nasty weather.
    One eye is taken for an eye.

    Well, don’t look ’round tonight.
    ‘Cause it’s bound to take your life.
    There’s a bad moon on the rise.

  7. Shame on you guys for being offline during that whole clusterf*** of an event!

    But wow, I mean WOW, what a strange twist of events. Even bigger than the ‘Teixeira signs with Red Sox Yankees’ in 08.

    • ryan says:

      no it isnt at all

      nowhere did it say that the yankees were on the verge of signing lee and then all of a sudden the phillies signed him..

      no parallel at all

      • Elan says:

        Are you kidding? The Yankees had been considered the favorites to sign Lee for the entire duration of the off season (and probably even before that). Plus, they almost traded for Lee back in July, so the belief that the Yankees would get him the second time around was extremely high!

        • boogie down says:

          We were presumed favorites, not reported favorites, in regards to Cliff Lee. On the other hand, there were numerous reports that Teixeira was on the verge of signing with the Red Sox before Cash swooped in and plucked him up.

        • OldYanksFan says:

          Considered by WHO? The MSM, that keeps their jobs by generating non-news during the slow winter?

          I got news for you.
          We were NOT considered the favorite by Cliff Lee.
          If Lee had ANY DESIRE AT ALL to be a Yankee, he would be.
          I guess, ya know…. Cashman could have kidnapped his wife and kids and held them hostage for 7 years.

          Yeah… held them hostage.
          Yeah… yeah… that’s the ticket!

    • Shame on you guys for being offline during that whole clusterf*** of an event!

      If you’re not joking, that’s seriously going to piss me off right now.

  8. SamVa says:

    In all honesty,
    I was really hoping to see Montero in pinstripes and now I’m upset not really at the fact that we didn’t get Lee, but at the fact that if we are to now go top of the line starting pitcher hunting that I chances are I won’t get to see Montero.

    Talk about a bummer, but I guess we hope for the best.

    I hope Andy comes back so we are only looking for a number 5.

    • I doubt the Yankees go after a front of the rotation starter, I’d be happy will Millwood, Webb or Young at this point, and I honestly would rather not have any of them.

    • boogie down says:

      Assuming Andy does come back, I don’t see Cash making a knee-jerk move and trading for a top-flight starter. Consider this: With CC, an improving/promising Hughes, Pettitte (assuming he comes back), and AJ, who can’t possibly pitch as poorly as he did last year, 4/5 of our rotation will, as a whole, be better than last year. Add to that the fact that we can reasonably expect to find a #5 starter who outperforms Javy’s production from last year and our rotation will be better than last year’s, when we won 95 games. Never mind the fact that Larry Rothschild, a pitching coach whose services had been retained by one team’s 5 (!!) most recent managers, has been signed on to help improve our staff.

      Signing Lee would’ve undoubtedly paid some serious dividends in the short run but could have cost us dearly in the long run. We will not be tethered to an aging pitcher with tough-to-predict performance (because it’s so far down the road) for an unseemly amount of money. In all, it shouldn’t be taken as too much of a lost opportunity when one considers what we would have been on the books for. Remember, while there remains the possibility that he earns every last penny of his contract (and possibly then some), there’s also the distinct chance that he falls short.

  9. Scooter Blake says:

    What a punch in the gut.
    I feel like the girl I’ve had a crush on for months just told me I’m a loser and started dating the school dickhead.
    With no obvious route to go from here, we are in uncharted waters.

  10. Jason says:

    Plan B: Stockpile relievers, cut the game in half and rule the bullpen.

  11. Steve O. says:

    (Runs hot bath, sharpens razors)

  12. Mike HC says:

    Disappointing. Yanks came up empty on all the big free agents this year. Cash is going to have to deplete the farm and blow Pettitte to have even satisfactory pitching compared to the top teams in the league.

  13. Yankeefan91 Arod Fan says:

    I guess he didn’t really wanna pitch for the Yankees i blame his wife that B….

    • Jason says:

      Anyone who thinks a bad experience at Yankee Stadium for Lee’s wife would impact where he would go just went right out the window. Lee is headed back to Philly, where fans puke on each other, constantly get tazed, beat each other to death (2009) and even boo Santa Claus. Enjoy.

      • Kiko Jones says:

        Correct you are, Jason. But Phillies fans have yet to treat Mrs. Lee like shit so there’s no real parallel here.

      • Eric Young says:

        And there are no non-stop flights from Philly to Arkansas, so the distance thing was always a non-issue.

        • Michael Mirabella says:

          How the heck is Philly different from New York?! I’m screwed, live an hour away from Philly in New Jersey, I’ll be hearing it all day.

    • BklynJT says:

      Should blame those stupid Yankee fans that pissed his wife off. You should know to never piss off a woman, they are spiteful as shit.

  14. Steve O. says:

    I can take solace in the fact that Ivan Nova will not be the team’s fifth starter.

  15. Pat D says:

    Well I finally found something that could “drive me to drink.”

    Cuz I’m throwing back a few Mike’s right now.

  16. Betty Lizard says:

    “Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi Pettitte; you’re my only hope.”

    Prince Cashman

  17. Bobtaco says:

    Phillies are going to be way old, way fast… But they might win twice before that…. I hope the Giants beat them again.

  18. bonestock94 says:

    Shitty night. I just hope the farm isn’t gutted. Just getting an inning eater and hope Pettitte re-signs. If not the 5th slot will be for minor leaguers to audition. I’d rather not contend in 2011 then make rash decisions that hurt our farm depth long term. Oh, and don’t blow the first round pick on a stupid FA.

  19. Ghost says:

    See you Jesus Montero. For shame, I was looking forward to seeing this kid become the next homegrown star.

    • Mike HC says:

      Yea. He is a goner.

      • Pat D says:

        For what? If you weren’t going to trade him for Cliff Lee, no matter what caused that deal to fall apart, what are you going to trade him for? Anything short of Felix Hernandez, who ain’t going anywhere, is a waste of time.

        • Mike HC says:

          Maybe during the off season. Maybe toward the trading deadline, but my money is on him traded.

          • Pat D says:

            Didn’t answer the question.

            • Mike HC says:

              I can’t answer your question. I can’t discuss trades with MLB GM’s. I have no idea who is available, which teams like Montero, etc …

              I hope we can make a trade without giving him up though. I hope you are right.

              • Pat D says:

                When I’m saying I only trade him for Felix, I mean someone of that ilk. I don’t think Greinke is there. Nor is anyone else mentioned as trade targets.

                That’s my point. So I was curious as to what rumored pitcher would be acceptable for you to give up Montero now.

        • Jason says:

          You think the Yankees would ever make a trade with Seattle again after what they pulled in the Cliff Lee deal!?

    • Mr. Sparkle says:

      It was the first thing I thought when I heard this news. I sense a bad panic move coming in the next few weeks.

      • Jon G says:

        Best thing Cash can do right now is stand pat.

        Other teams know the Yanks are desperate and there is honestly nobody really good out there right now.

        Maybe re-sign Wood for the 8th and talk to Rothschild about Joba maybe starting again – tell joba to prepare to be a starter and see how it goes – can’t hurt. Remember, even Lee got sent to minors in 2007.

        Rothschild is really good. I think AJ will be far better in 2011, and likely Hughes as well.

        See how the first few months go, wait for teams to put the right pitcher on the market and then we go for it.

        That said, we’ve got some great upper level pitching talent. Look how the SF Giants won the series this year. It wasn’t by trading those guys away. In fact the big free agent (Zito) wasn’t even pitching. Maybe the Yanks take this opportunity to see what they have and then they can start making moves in early June if need be…

        But now is not the time — Cash should be patient, wait until at least the spring, and see how things go… This could end up turning into a blessing…

        • boogie down says:

          My thoughts exactly. Glad there’s others.

        • OldYanksFan says:

          Correct. I’m with ya. As long as Montero is still a Yankee in April, this could be a fun year.

          And you guys want a panic move? How about Crawford at 7/$142m? That’s more then Manny!!! And as a LHB with pull-power only, he will hit less HRs in Fenway, and his Defense adds little in Fenway’s tiny RF. Werth was the guy the Sox needed.

          I mean Carl IS a very nice player. Very nice.
          But 7/$142m?

    • ZZ says:

      No one worth trading him for.

      I fully believe he stays.

  20. It'sATarp says:

    Hate to spin it any other way our rotation SUCKS…pretty sure somewhere i read in the last few months the yankees rotation put up the WORST era out of all rotations. Not feeling great about next yer.

  21. Westcoastyankfan says:

    Wasn’t it Greinke with the social anxiety disorder?

  22. Pat D says:

    So who in the baseball media next spring isn’t going to pick a Red Sox/Phillies World Series, also known as “The Event During Which I Am Most Likely To Commit Suicide Unless a Cowboys or Eagles vs. Jets Super Bowl Happens First.”

    • Mr. Sparkle says:

      I hear ya! It will be sickening, but it’s OK as the usual favorites almost NEVER make it. So, at least we’ll have that waiting for us…which is nice.

      • Pat D says:

        Yea, the only thing I have to look forward to at this particular moment in time is laughing at all the Phillies fans I know when/if their team pulls a typical Yankee loss to a lesser team next October.

      • Shaun says:

        It seems like all of sports is out to bone NY this year, so if the Sox/Phillies play each other, I’d be far from surprised.

    • Eric Young says:

      Any team can get waylaid in the postseason, but Red Sox and Phillies at the top of their divisions? You’d be insane to bet against it.

    • OldYanksFan says:

      Here’s the Good news…
      Sox won’t have a chance.

  23. Kit says:

    Super unfortunate, but I’m sure we’ll be okay. Doesn’t mean I don’t resent him for it though.

    • Ghost says:

      The players Union rents him more than anyone ;)

      • Pat D says:

        I’m as pissed at them as I am at Lee and his agent. Do your fucking jobs and make sure your members take the most fucking money!*

        *I rescind this comment if the Rangers did in fact offer more money.

        • Kit says:

          lol…I don’t even mind the fact that the Rangers offered the most money, it’s just the fact that we’ve (as in Rangers and Yankee fans who cared) been waiting for this guy to make a decision and he chooses the team that offers him something in the span of a day or something. I personally think he saved the Rangers from themselves if they did offer the highest bid (how the hell would they pay him?) but it feels like a slap in the face– big time. I also don’t want to see the Phillies win anything ever, so there’s that.

        • Eric Young says:

          They did…total Ranger $ was $161M.

    • Mr. Sparkle says:

      Right. But, remember how the Yanks got their revenge on Greg Maddux in 1996 an 1999? That will be the sweetest revenge. Although, it’s hard to imagine every time I think of the 2011 rotation (as of today.)

    • ShuutoHeat says:

      If he had stayed with the Rangers, I wouldn’t be bothered one bit.
      But the Phillies? Makes me want break something…

      • Kiko Jones says:

        Interestingly, I feel the opposite: I don’t hate the Phillies and now that the Rangers have lost Lee the Yankees won’t face him except when it would really matter, so…

  24. ZZ says:

    I am honestly stunned. Just no words to describe it except for stunned.

    The important thing now is for the Yankees to not make a panic move. Do not deplete the farm. Do not trade for Greinke. Do not trade for Montero. Pay AP as much as you need to get him back and explore the mid-tier trade market.

    This organization has been a cold calculating machine the past few years. Losing out on Cliff Lee should not change that.

    The Yankees are just likely going to have to into 2011 with much more uncertainty and risk than they are used to. It is time to test what is really going to make this team successful over the next several years with an aging core on the big club. And that is the farm system. They absolutely need it. They can’t make a panic move to deplete it.

  25. ShuutoHeat says:

    Some of my friends speculating that Lee doesn’t want to play for the Yankees and how not trading him via Seattle was a good thing (not losing Montero).

    But who knows?

  26. MT says:

    He can blow Pettitte if that will help, but he’s not allowed to blow up the farm.

    • C says:

      Blow Pettitte? I mean, I guess that might convince him to come back…

      • MT says:

        Hmmmm, my note was in reply to someone else who made some the “blow” comment, yet it appears to be a Reply Failure on my part since it’s not connected to the note. But, sure, if it will convince him to come back, I guess Cashman is just gonna have to suck it up.

  27. Yankeefan91 Arod Fan says:

    wow im really depress ): this has not been a good day at all for me.

  28. Ghost of Scott Brosius says:

    Cashman played all this correctly. At some point, you just cannot continue to bid against yourselves. It’s the best way to destroy your resources. We’ll be fine. Build from within- that’s the ticket to a new dynasty.

    • Elan says:

      Yeah, and Cashman really played it correctly when he said the Yankees were “not desperate for Lee.” That’s not the correct thing to say when you’re trying to get the best free agent on the market to come to your team. You make him feel as wanted and important to the team as possible if you really want to sign him. I’m sorry, but Cashman did not play this correctly – he offerred the dollars and the years, but he didn’t offer the attitude.

      • Mike HC says:

        Cashman clearly did not play this correctly. We didn’t get Lee, a bunch of top free agents have already signed when we were waiting for Lee, and every team in baseball knows we are desperate for starting pitching. In hindsight, I’m not sure he could have played in worse.

        • Dale Mohorcic says:

          You’re right. Has to be. I mean some overblown quote in the media had to be the sole deciding factor. What other possible reason could there have been for Lee to not take the money. If I’m him and I read that, I don’t need to know who’s offering the most money or years or anything. I don’t want to go anywhere that doesn’t want me so much they offer me $150 million and change.

      • BklynJT says:

        You said the same exact thing 8 minutes ago and it was wrong then too. Whatever Cashman said had nothing to do with Lee not signing with the Yankees.

      • Ghost of Scott Brosius says:

        We’re not desperate. We’re never desperate. We’re the Yankees. That’s what some fans don’t seem to understand. You think free agents care about “attitude?” Believe me, Lee knew we wanted him. He had plenty of Yankees telling him so, and the offers to prove it. He chose to go to Philly on a worse offer, because that is where he wanted to be. What the hell was Cashman supposed to about that? Offer him a ten year contract? Let’s pay him forever! It’s that kind of thinking that takes prosperous, well-run teams like the Yankees, and turns them into malfunctioning disasters. I for one am confident with Brian Cashman in charge.

      • Dave says:

        You really think Cashman’s pronouncements to the media are what Lee was listening to? They talked face to face, and I can guarantee Cashman made it very clear how much the Yankees wanted him to come.

      • toad says:

        That’s ridiculous.

        Do you seriously believe that comment by Cashman negated the extra millions the Yankees offered?

        Lee likes the idea of Philadelphia better. It’s that simple. Get over it.

        If Cashman made a mistake, and I don’t really think he did, it was in not reading Lee’s mind going in. Of course none of his critics did that either. Anyone want to point out comments they made suggesting that Lee was likely to go elsewhere and so the Yankees should try a different plan?

    • Lefftee says:

      Cashman got out hustled by Amaro and by Theo. What have we upgraded so far? Tell me please I can wait to hear it

      • Ghost of Scott Brosius says:

        Get this through your head: we had no need of Carl Crawford. We have an outfield. We have hitting, defense, and speed. Paying Carl Crawford, at 20 million a year, would not have upgraded us- it would’ve made us worse. Ruben Amaro did not “outhustle” us- Cliff Lee wanted to go to the Phillies. He took a worse offer. We can’t bid against ourselves ad infinitum.
        Sometimes, the market just doesn’t line up in your favor. An intelligent businessman understands that.

  29. theyankeewarrior says:

    In all seriousness, we need to trade as few non-Montero/B’s prospects as possible for one of Carpenter/Buehrle and get Andy back.

    That will allow us to compete in 2011 while also keeping prospects/picks/dollars available for 2012 and into the future.

  30. bonestock94 says:

    I’d rather suck in 2011 than not have a good farm system. And by suck I mean still make it to the playoffs and have a top offense.

  31. Ray the Anti-Handle says:

    So conflicted right now…

    Lee would have been an outstanding addition to the team, but those tail years of the contracts had such a high chance of being awful. He chose the team he wanted to play for over money, which is admirable. Then again, these are the same Phillies who traded him to the stinkin’ Mariners to replace him with Halladay.

    But it’s not that bad. At least we’re not Rangers fans right now. Highest offer (though we don’t know how difficult it would have been to kick in that vesting option) and all that talk about how great Texas was and what do they get as their reward? Blind-sided by the Phillies. Ouch.

    • RuleroftheBones86 says:

      and yet they’ll probably be the favorites to acquire Grienke or at the very ;east have a far easier task in making the playoffs playing the triple-a, er, I mean AL west.

      Just sayin, Texas remains in a somewhat better position as they are still the clear cut best team in their weak division.

      Still, my feeling is somewhat relieved in a way. I have been getting pretty bad vibes on this mega deal and I can imagine how debilitating that contract would have been on our roster.

      Plus, I think his opportune dominance against us at times have left us not thinking clearly about who Lee really was… somewhat overrated.

      Not saying he doesn’t have appeal, but think about the last Cliff Lee deal we gave a pitcher, the o” knuckle-curve righty- Mussina. Now, Moose was coming off a hall of fame caliber early career posting a half dozen great years already- vastly worthier of a rich contract.

      Compare that to Lee and just think- he’s resume is built on what post-season dominance? How many times do we teach our fellow yankee fans not to judge an Alex or a Mussina on postseason failure.

      Its the regular season where the meat of the resume is built and with Mr. Lee just never seemed to be a a great starter. Only a few years remove from being some nobody, back end starter. Hey, he might be Doc Halliday’s southpaw twin but color me skeptical of recognizing him a peer of Halliday or CC pedigree.

      Sure, he can handle the big spot but is some freakish automatic win? Hell, no. The last two world series alone, he threw two stinkers of Louie Anderson proportions! Sorry, when did El Duque do that, hmm? The point is his greatness is heavily dependent on one aspect, he has picked some of his best performances against us and they were very impressive. We want to rid our fears anyway possible and why not take the big bad Arkansas lefty out of our nightmares and into our dreams of #28+

      Still, even against us, he is not perfect or anywhere close to it, actually. In reality he kinda reminds of a finesse Beckett. Coming off a painful defeat, can handle the toughest environments, very intimidating and injury prone (opps how did that negative fact get in there ;)

      Nevertheless, can you imagine if we let some pitcher who punched us hard in our heart and pride to justify an insanely large contract? Does Carl pavano ring a bell? Not comparing totally, but my point being both there values were increased dramatically due to small sample size of winning big games against us providing their value.

      In the end, a Lee-less rotation will sting next year when the division, and maybe even a playoff spot, is endangered due to a supectible rotation. Still, all the what ifs that had to go right just for Lee to come close to justifying that deal were too great. Can you really imagine a guy with a chronic back keeping a precise pitching eye to buttress his ordinary stuff? Personally, I did not and am glad he is not a Yankee.

      Now, lets sign Andy and get a movin to spring training!!

  32. johnny says:

    So I’m not overreacting. I don’t really care about Lee. I’m pissed the Yanks got treated like a 2nd rate team in a 2nd rate town. Why would some one take less money to pitch someplace else. I feel the fo or someone should take responsibility for the perception that NY = not a good place to play.

    Is it Hank running his mouth? The extreme businesslike (purely professional not personal) nature of Cashman? Is it Girardi using his binder?

    Is it the fans behavior? (which is probably a reinforcement of the team’s sense of ‘entitlement’)

    I don’t know – but I don’t like it and I’m upset Cashman/the fo has allowed it to happen.

    No one should leave 10-30 million on the table.

    • BklynJT says:

      We didn’t even have the highest offer.

      And sorry to disagree but you gotta respect someone who has the balls to leave that much money on the table to do what he wants.

      • johnny says:

        I understand not wanting to pitch in Texas or any smaller market where resources are limited, and over the course of the contract he’ll have a considerably lower probability of consistently playing for a champion caliber teams.

        The Yanks offered him 154 million guaranteed (the highest guaranteed amount by the way). Along with the chance to win often. My point was not to disrespect him for leaving $ on the table – it was being upset and confused by why he’d want to. There’s no reason he should have said no except a “he liked his 2 months (SSS!!) in philly” – which is not a real reason to turn down guaranteed $ (he also liked his time in Texas). It makes no sense except that there’s a reason he didn’t want to come to NY. I’m not sure what that reason is I’m just upset it exists.

        • dalelama says:

          Just face it many People in the country just don’t want to live in the NYC metro area—too much traffic, too much pollution, too much crime, too high taxes, just too many hassles. I think the old saying, “It is a great place to visit but I wouldn’t want to live there” applies in the Cliff Lee situation.

  33. Jason says:

    At this exact moment, by my rough estimation, the Phillies payroll is hovering near $170M. The Yankees are sitting at $174M. I finally have some ammo for all the stupid Phillies fans that constantly talk about our payroll.

    • Mr. Sparkle says:

      Phillies fans only? How about every whining fan who isn’t a fan of the Yankees? The Phillies, the Red Sox, even the Rangers were willing to open their wallets. The Yankees aren’t the only “big spenders” in baseball. Besides, my comeback was always, “You can buy players…you can’t buy pennants.”

    • Eric Young says:

      Your rough estimation (and you can put Bosox in that vicinity) is the very problem with NYY front office right now. We’re giving up our financial dominance. At one point, payroll-wise we were 25 – 35% above our next closest adversary. By allowing that margin to shrink to Vasquez-proportions, we’re in the position of not being able to overcome our own financial mistakes (i.e., like the Phillies, Mets, Bosox, Phillies).

      • RuleroftheBones86 says:

        Eric, no amount of monetary delight was going entice Mr. Lee. Its clear he wanted the leisure of facing Nl bats in his favorite ML team, the Putrid Phils. Hey, can you blame him? It was there in Philly where he became this ought after elite pitcher by leading them to a near upset. Before that he was just that tall lefty who dominated in Cleveland and therefore did not matter in the real world.

  34. Scott says:

    I’m not too upset..7 years/160 mil is A LOT of time & money for a 32 year old! if he want s crawl back to Philly after they basically let him go because they thought (rightfully so) that Halladay was the better pitcher…then see ya! Ends up looking like a scared little bitch that doesn’t feel that he can live up to that contract and the pressure of NY!

    • BklynJT says:

      I agree. Lee wants to pitch in that uber rotation for the easiest route to the World Series. He probably really enjoyed pitching in Philly also.

      It would be so great if the Phillies don’t win a World Series for the whole time Lee and Halladay are there =) (as long as its not the red sox winning it)

  35. mustang says:

    Well many Cashman haters have said that all he does is buy a team I guess we will see now.

    I believe is he is the right man for the job.

    Go get them baby!

  36. yanksfanspokane says:

    Seriously…the move maybe sets the Yanks back for the next 2 years and thats a MAYBE…pardon me for not wanting the Yanks to sign a 32 y/o, with 3 good seasons and back problems to a 7 year contract. Not to mention, Lee depends on control and location to an extreme, either one slips a bit and he becomes the Cliff Lee we watched in the World Series…this is good news (unless the Yanks trade Montero). Lee is a little Bitch, Ive thought so for the past 2 years…

  37. T-Long says:

    Wow a stunning turn of events. Can’t really blame Cashman though. He made a really good offer but Lee but wanted to go back to Philly. One of the best options now is to trade for a starter (Nolasco, maybe Carpenter), and move Joba to the rotation. Obvisously the FO won’t follow through with my plan, but I just hope Cashman and the FO don’t overreact and gut the farm.

    The only things you can ridicule Cashman on are making Nunez a dealbreaker for Lee and not being more aggressive towards the Dan Haren trade talks in July. Other than that, its a big punch to the gut and it hurts but we’ll survive. Don’t forget, this team did win 95 games so its not like its a total lost cause.

    • Jonathan says:

      ya the haren thing hurt so bad at the time for me because it seemed they dbacks were really selling low and we could have an amazing starter without giving up any of the big prospects or hughes etc. CC/Haren/Pettitte/Hughes/Aj isn’t a bad rotation at all and we coudl have spent some money on the bullpen and russell martin.

    • Eric Young says:

      Anyone can make a good offer. Closing the deal is what it’s about. Read Reggie’s own account of Steinbrenner’s schmoozing of him when he was being wooed. The money is always a big part – the biggest part – but sometimes the intangibles are what close the deal.

  38. Jonathan says:

    The only thing that makes me happy about this is that grade A dick Braunecker just lost out on millions. He just have the best mistress EVER in Philly. He plays 2 months there. They don’t win the WS. They dump his ass. Then he takes $50MM less to join them. How does that make any damn sense?

    It’s like when the amazingly hot girl gets dumped by her loser bf and you and her start hanging out and you both think it’s going somewhere. Then the loser bf jumps back in and the girl forgets she got trashed 2 minutes ago and just goes back. Then it’s back to porking fat chicks in the dark for us.

    • Mr. Sparkle says:

      The only thing making me happy is the feeling that anyone willing to sign a contract that binds them to living in Philadelphia for five-years is a lot dumber than I could ever imagine. At least it keeps the Yankees’ team IQ from taking a serious dive.

    • BklynJT says:

      Hmmm I hope that example isnt from first hand experience.

      • Jonathan says:

        no actually my 1st gf was absolutely out of control gorgeous….and it ruined my standards forever. i thought every girl would be a 5’3 smokin hot 15 yr old blonde gymnast. turns out….not so much. so not fat chicks for me.

  39. Yea I said it says:

    Ricky Nolasco here we come, pack your bags !!!

  40. Jimmy McNulty says:

    Well this sucks. I’m okay with it though. I’d rather not sell the farm for a worse pitcher, and just deal with a shitty team and shoot for at best a first round playoff exit. At least the Phillies can crush the Red Sox in the WS now. Note to Cash and D-Opp…drop 20M on this year’s draft to make up for it.

    On a tangential note: This team constantly putting themselves in a “sign this guy or bust” situation has to end. Typically I’m okay with it because they get their guy, but now…my god. As of now the rotation is: CC, Hughes, AJ, Nova, Mitre. Gross. This team’s inability to develop their own pitching scares the shit out of me.

    Lighter note: I’m glad at least they don’t have another 150M dollar contract, buuuuut…the cost is a shitty next two years.

    • mbonzo says:

      Don’t think the Yankees are spending $190m this year to have shitty starting pitching. Something will get done and the farm system is going to take a hit.

      • Jimmy McNulty says:

        Great, they’ll end up losing top flight young talent for a worse pitcher. Make themselves worse in the short and long term. Fuck that, they’re not a WS team even if they do something dumb like Montero for Greinke. I’d rather just keep the young talent and see what happens in 2013.

      • Jimmy McNulty says:

        Furthermore they’ve spent 200M+ and had shittier starting pitching.

    • JGS says:

      just deal with a shitty team and shoot for at best a first round playoff exit

      If they are in the playoffs, then they are by definition not shitty. Any team that makes the playoffs can win the World Series. The 1997 Braves lost in the NLCS. The punchless Giants beat Halladay, Hamels, and Lee (twice) less than two months ago.

      The Phillies also just lost their best hitter and have one position player under 30. Why don’t we please not anoint them yet?

      • Jimmy McNulty says:

        In my view, there’s great teams and shitty ones. The Yankees are a shitty one right now, rack up 90 or so wins…no real shot at advancing in the World Series. Typical mid 20s draft pick, but not something that 190M should be spent on. As to the Giants…they had better pitching than the Yankees do, also they didn’t beat all four in the same series. But, as you wish. I guess we’ll deal with Carl Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez getting a World Series ring, instead.

    • Eric Young says:

      As bad as 2011 looks right now, 2012 looks way uglier. This is just poor, poor planning by the one man responsible for planning – Cashman.

      This is exactly why I’ve completely turned against Cashman. To be in this position is absolutely unacceptable for a team with the resources of NYY.

  41. Jimmy McNulty says:

    Also: Fuck Cliff Lee and his fat ugly wife. Fuck AJ Burnett for having the same agent and being from the same state.

  42. bonestock94 says:

    Save Jesus

  43. yanksfanspokane says:

    FYI, as written about on this site, Buehrle isnt worth trading the farm for…he’s a league average starter whose value lies in the fact that he starts 34 games per year and tosses over 200 innings. Carpenter, I dont have any faith in him…how old is he? Not to mention he didnt realize any measurable success until moving to the NL Central? I’ll pass…best move is to put Joba back into the rotation and stock up on dominating bullpen arms, although Cashman apparently doesn’t feel the same.Joba in the rotation may be the best option at this point, imo.

  44. I am not the droids you're looking for says:

    Hmm plenty of cash left now for Cash to get Pettitte back and perhaps a Wood type to be the EIG, and then some. We might not have to have a shitty bench this year :)

  45. Halladay/Lee/Hamels/Oswalt says:

    A-Rod for Timmy Lincecum, straight up! We’ll even eat 30% of the Rodriguez salary. (No I’m not actually one of the people jumping off a bridge. I’ve wanted Timmy forever. This just seemed like a good time to say it.)

  46. nathan says:

    Yanks fans should be singing the praise of Ruben Amaro. he has shredded their farm, back loaded their payroll with agiing 30 somethings and taken Lee out of the AL. What mroe do you want. Now we have 150 M to spend somewhere else. Win-win-win

    And I was never in the get Lee camp. For once we will watch a great pitcher decline with someone else. I dont have a plan B but that doesnt mean I couldnt question plan A.

  47. Yankeefan91 Arod Fan says:

    I blame it all on cliff lee fat wife she probably miss eating philly cheesesteak and wanted to retun :p J/K

  48. China Joe says:

    Look to the 2010-11 Knicks for inspiration.

    It’ll be fun to watch some of the young players develop. We’re not going to get Greinke, so just root for Jesus to kick some ass with the bat and play a passable catcher. Check on Brackman down in AAA/AA to see if he’s continuing his progression from last year. Of all the contenders in the AL only the Red Sox didn’t take a step back this offseason, so it’s not like the playoffs are out of reach.

  49. stuart a says:

    wow the whiners and under 30 spoiled crowd out in force. how about this explanation, lee wanted to play in philly and did not care if he left a couple of dollars on the table…

    but whining yankee fans can’t take that simple statement he wanted to play in philly and the financial difference was negligable.

    the yanks need to be creative and not sell the farm for middling pitchers and minor upgrades.

    derek said he was worth $15 per year, show it……………..

    glad lee went to the nl, sounds like the scrutiny of NY is not his cup of tea…..

  50. Hughesus Christo says:


    I hope this teaches them a lesson. You give those kinds of prospects every opportunity to sink or swim. They did nothing of the sort. Instead they have to fall over themselves to acquire a 32 year old FA and hold on to a 38 year old to save the day. And the response isn’t to punt any chance you have of developing elite positional talent from within.

    Any start Sergio Mitre, Dustin Mosley, Chad Gaudin, and the like made these last two years was a mistake.

    Start Joba
    Re-sign Wood
    Beat Boston
    Get revenge on Lee.

    Das’ it.

  51. EndlessMike says:

    Some people are saying wait for the farm to come around but the Yankees farm isn’t the Royals farm where they have high draft picks.Mike Moustakas makes Jesus Montero look like Eric Duncan.The Yankees don’t have the time for these prospects to get major league ready.

    The Yankees need to make a trade. But I feel Cashman will get a NL pitcher who only good in the NL.

  52. Mr Moss says:

    Rangers fans must be gutted..They had the highest bid.Lee just took a dump on Texas

    This is great for the Yankees..We will get to see Betances and Banuelos develop into stars.Cashman wont give up Montero

  53. Andrew says:

    Since this news broke i have had no desire to study for my Biochemistry exam tomorrow… thanks Cliff Lee you suck

  54. Ghost says:

    Here’s hoping Tony Parker has Cliff Lee’s wife in his contacts so he can text…

    In other news, I’m drinking a brandy so have a good night boys and I absolutely am looking forward to tomorrow’s podcast.

    • yanksfanspokane says:

      While we’ll never be privey to what the D-Backs wanted from the Yanks for Haren, damn it sucks that Towers wasnt the GM for em 6 months ago! I see the inability to get a deal done for Haren as one of Cashman’s bigger mistakes, and I thought so at the time as well. Even back in July I felt that by acquiring Haren, the Yanks would gain more leverage in signing Lee…let’s hope this decision turns out the way it turned out when Maddux spurned the Yanks – Yanks in turn signed Jimmy Key who ultimately defeated Maddux in Game 6 of the 1996n World Series…how many rings did Maddux win with the Braves? 1…in what 11 years? Key won a ring in 4 years with the Yanks…playin’ the Yanks usually comes back to haunt players and teams and I can’t for the Crawford era to begin in Beantown, lmao!

  55. First Time Poster says:

    Impressed with how quickly Cots’ has updated their website.

    • First Time Poster says:

      Also, people who are saying the Phillies are doomed in the future should take a peak at their Cots page. The only guys they are paying a significant amount of money in 2012 are Howard, Utley, Lee and Halladay. Those are four of the games best players at their respective position, regardless of their “ageing”– they will not be that old and show no sign of slowing down.

      I am a Yankee fan and dislike the Phillies… but that is the reality.

      • Pat D says:

        They could be slightly doomed if they stupidly give big money to Rollins after this year. I don’t think they’re that stupid, but the Howard contract is pretty foolish, so I don’t put it past them, either.

    • Eric Young says:

      WOW!! Cot’s is amazing tonight!

  56. Pat D says:

    I guess CC isn’t a very good salesman, either.

    Or Cliff Lee is just a pure Arkansas hick who doesn’t know the difference between his ass and a hole in the ground.

    And if there is anyone on this board who is from Arkansas and resents that comment, tough shit!

  57. nathan says:

    Wasnt sure whether I read this from Feinsand or Tim Brown, but he indicated that Yanks were informed by the agent while Lee personally called Rangers to let them know. The writer posited it meant Yanks were 3rd option.

    I donno if they were 3rd option, but after all the offers and efforts didnt Lee atleast had to call Cashman?

    • MT says:

      Nah, at least I don’t see it that way. Lee called the Rangers because he was a member of that organization. He never pitched for the Yankees, so he doesn’t have that same connection.

      That said, the Yankees certainly could have been third. The Texas Rangers offered more money than the Yankees.

  58. Big Juan says:

    Looks for a bridge to jump from


  59. Halladay/Lee/Hamels/Oswalt says:

    If the Yankees sign Kevin Millwood or any other Jaret Wright remix, that will be the worst allocation of resources since Michael Jordan played baseball.

    This is a great opportunity to get the team younger–and younger seems to win more often than older! This is why we should get Grienke, Lincecum, and Matt Cain ASAP!!!! (right . . . )

  60. stuart a says:

    yep move joba to the rotation because he has been so effective in shorter outings and since he loves to throw strikes.

    no thanks…how about this joba dominates and can be the bridge to Mo and pitch multiple innings…

    what a concept.

    why did the site go down when the sh-t hit the fan???????????

  61. Scott says:

    I say see ya Cliff! You wanna crawl back and beg the Phillies to sign you after they basically dumped your ass for Roy…makes you look like a scared little bitch who is afraid of not livin up to that huge contract and the expectations of winning in NY! “Please Mr. Amaro, I’ll take less money….just put me in the rotation behind Roy and before Roy where I can hide my little hick ass!” Thanks….Clifton (what a pussy name!)

    • Ghost says:

      ^^ Everything is wrong with this post.

      I would have dumped him too for Roy Halladay and I think its safe to say that anyone else with a reasonable thought would have too. The phillies are not exactly the Marlins….And the city of Philadelphia is very much a vibrant baseball town. I don’t buy the scared to pitch in NY bullcrap. He went where he would most be happy and still make alot of money and have the weight of winning on his shoulders!

      • Scott says:

        I would have dumped hm too for Roy. My point was if I got dumped, I wouldn’t crawl back to that team begging them to make an offer…a lower one at that!

  62. Tom Zig says:

    Blame Cashman!

    /Grabs pitch fork and torch

    //oh wait it isn’t his fault that Lee turned down an additional 2 years and 30+ million?

  63. MT says:

    For perspective, we won 95 games last year without Lee, and we did that with Pettitte missing more than two months, and AJ and Javy both posting ERA’s north of 5.00.

    The Yankees need to convince Andy to return for one more season, and if we have to overpay him, then overpay him. There certainly isn’t a budget issue, as they have about $36 million unspent ($24 million targeted for Lee and $12 million for Pettitte). If it takes a few more million to help convince Andy to return (not that this is really a money issue), then so be it. A full year of Andy coupled with whomever replaces Vazquez should give us a stronger rotation than what we had this year. And if AJ returns to anywhere near where he’s been prior to 2010, then we’ll be in excellent shape. A 100-win season is within reach.

  64. Pat D says:

    All I know is that Bill James once said that classically great starting rotations never seem to win World Series. In one of his books, he said only the 1985 Royals had the best starting pitching of their decade and won a WS. Hopefully this is the fate of the 2011 Phillies.

    In other news, I’m thinking of converting to voodoo and sticking a lot of pins in a Cliff Lee doll’s back. Good idea?

  65. bexarama says:

    This hurts for now, but I just hope they don’t get involved in a panic-trade. And anyone blaming Cashman is really silly, he did all he could, Lee just would’ve rather been in Philly than here for whatever reason. Kinda glad it’s over at this point.

    Also, how are there multiple comments about blowing Andy Pettitte before I even show up in this thread?

    • Tom Zig says:

      I would have loved to have Lee, even if at the cost of 7 years, but oh well, it’s for the best. Keep the Killer B’s and Montero.

    • Pat D says:

      ‘Bout time you showed up!

    • Kit says:

      I was actually scrolling from the bottom of this thread for no reason in particular and I swore the “blowing Andy” part was a comment of yours but realized there was no /bexybait added so I had a, “that’s not right” moment.

      Also, yes to everything you said. Hurts quite a bit, but hopefully Cash was honest when he said that he dislikes and disagrees with the portrayal that they’re just sitting around idly with no plan.

      • MT says:

        I was responsible for the “blowing Andy” part. It was a REPLY FAIL to another note, so now makes no sense. I wouldn’t think of attaching Bexy’s name to that type of comment, but if you girls think it will help… :-)

    • Jimmy McNulty says:

      And anyone blaming Cashman is really silly, he did all he could,

      Yeah. I’m at piece, upset, but at piece. Oh well I have real life shit to do.

  66. stuart a says:

    endless mike you know jack. I lve in so cal. i know mike moustakas and the other chatsworth guy Dominguez. Montero is a much better hitter then moustakas, you ever see him play??????

  67. China Joe says:

    Free Joba! Get out the pitchforks and torches, Yankee fans! Start the revolution!!!

  68. mko says:

    Damn…I guess the Sabathias were not convincing enough. Or he made a lot of friends in Philly.

    I don’t blame the Yankees at all, Lee apparently preferred Philly. That doesn’t mean I have to like it or him though…

    I HATE THIS! I was looking forward to two aces at the top of the rotation…

  69. cano is the bro says:

    I know not many will agree with my opinion on this but whatever. I am bitter as hell and I hate the phillies. I hope their vaunted rotation is decimated by injury and ineffectiveness. I hope that Lee’s career ends in shambles in Philly and he is terrible. Fuck all philly sports

    feels good to get that off

  70. emac2 says:

    I’m sure glad we didn’t trade Montero for him!

    The fact that he went to the NL is also good news.

    I just pray Cash doesn’t do something stupid to make up for the loss. I would rather start with a rotation of CC, AJ, Hughes, Nova and whoever wins the 5 spot. My mid season we will be able to begin harvesting from the bumper crop of minor league arms.

    I do think we should either move Joba to the rotation or trade him though.

  71. Rod says:

    lets trade for Greinke. Montero is never going to catch for us with his defense and Nunez is expendable as well.

  72. mtrico says:

    Well, at least the Yankees got a light hitting 36 year old shortsop on the cheap this offseason. What a joke.

  73. Mr. Sparkle says:

    If his wife was whining and crying about what she thought was bad behavior during one game in Yankee Stadium, wait until she gets a load of five years in Philadelphia every time her husband gives up a run or (gasp!) loses a game. Wait! What if there’s a losing streak! Lady, you get what you deserve.

  74. Mike says:

    Nolasco should be the highest pitcher they target. He is a big strikeout, good control pitcher with upside and wouldn’t require parting with Montero. Gardner or Banuelos would be enough as centerpieces. It would hurt to give up either of those guys, but if Pettitte doesn’t come back (and even if he does), they will need to get someone.

    It’s a shame that the Diamondbacks aren’t still giving away Haren.

    • nathan says:

      Didnt Haren get traded to Angels. I maybe mistaken.

    • First Time Poster says:

      I’d think a package of Man-Ban and Gardy is too much for Ricky; yet, I do agree in that’s how much I’d take to land him from the Fish. Also, If the Yanks trade Gardy, who do they get for left?

      • Mike says:

        Man-Ban or Gardy. I think it would just take filler prospects after either of those guys. I’m not sure who would play left, but it’s easier to get a left-fielder than a capable starter.

        Yeah, Haren got traded. I was just saying he got traded for just about nothing and it would be nice if a team was willing to do that now, but that’s not going to happen. It sure would be easy if the Yanks had him, though.

    • DJH says:

      Nolasco isn’t good enough to give up valuable pieces for. He would help the team as is but I just think the prospect price will be to high for a decent not great pitcher. The ends don’t justify the means.

      • Mike says:

        I tend to agree with you. I’m really just looking for alternatives to the Yankees trading Montero which I am very worried about.

  75. First Time Poster says:

    As a generalization, Yankee fans seem to be playing into every brash stereotype that we so graciously place upon other fans’ heads. We call Lee out for taking less money, calling him an idiot; however, is that not the more “baseball” thing to do– play for the team you want?

    I say congrats to Lee for making a shit-load of money and playing for a team he wants to. I’ve gained a ton of respect for the dude for taking less money just to play for a team he truly wants to.

    Note: Hopefully he did right by Texas, however.

    • nathan says:

      Well way to paint a few Yanks fans as the general ones. Besides that taking less money is all fine and dandy but lets not go gaga over that yet. If the option he signed was 5/115 + 6th year vesting, he didnt really leave that much on the table. Plus who doesnt want to pitch in the NL east.

      • First Time Poster says:

        Again, I said it seemed that the general Yankee fan was overreacting. I still stand by that statement by the majority of comments I’ve read thus far.

        The deal is 5/120 with a 6th year vesting option. If the reported offers were accurate, which they appear to be, then the Rangers and Yankees’ offers were substantially higher– remember, we are talking about units in the millions, not a small number. That is a lot of money for a guy to leave on the table.

        • First Time Poster says:

          How is pitching in the NL East relevant? Are you saying it is “pitcher friendly”? Maybe so… but I hardly think that factors into the decision processes of pitchers in the caliber of Lee and Doc.

  76. This is what I figure the next week will be like,
    1) Cashman sucks and should be fired
    2) Cliff Lee’s wife is fat and likes cheese steaks
    3) Joba to the rotation
    4) Trade for Grienke
    5) Cliff Lee would have sucked anyway
    6) LOLMets
    7) Trade Players A,B,C for Mediocre pitchers

    It sucks we missed out on him, but paying him till he was 39 scared me a little. A part of me is a little happy because now we have a spot in the rotation for one of the killer B’s after the hole is filled for this year. I hope there is no panic move where our farm is gone and I really want Montero to stay. If Nova is our 5th starter (assuming Pettitte comes back) its not the end of the world and wont cost us anything and we can probably pick someone up at the deadline if hes sucking it up. Brackman is on the 40man so he might get a mid season call up. It really just depends on Pettitte at this point because before Cliff Lee Madness even began, everyone here said having Cliff Lee was just a luxury and that is basically what it was.

    • Jimmy McNulty says:

      My guess is Cliff Lee also fucked Chase Utley’s wife, and Cliff Lee’s wife is fat….or at least was in the Indians picture.

    • bexarama says:

      re: 6, Mets fans are going “LOLYANKEES” over the fact that NYY didn’t get Lee. Um, they’re aware they are the ones in the Phillies’ division and have to face them 18 times a year, right?

      • I know, after I got over this sucks for us, I thought of the Mets and it sucks a lot more for them. Sandy Alderson really looks like help fix Omars mess but Phili is going to be really tough for the next few years until they can’t afford FA.

    • Jon G says:

      Nah. Do nothing big in the next week. Maybe re-sign Wood or another 8th inning guy like Soriano.

      Tell Joba to prepare to start and see how he does in ST under a new pitching coach who is really really good. If he sucks, he can always go back to the pen, but only one way to find out.

      Then see how things go – I think this will work itself out well somehow.

      Remember what happened to Maddux when he did this to the Yanks in 1992 – ONE ring, and Yanks beat his Braves in the Series both times he faced them. He could have had 4 rings if he signed with the yanks in 1992…

      We ended up finding a way to win, and we’ll be fine again…

      • Yeah the list was just a bunch of comments I expect to see over not getting Lee. I want to see Joba get at least another shot but I have a feeling that he is probably going to get hurt having to get stretched out with innings again.

    • cano is the bro says:

      cliff lee’s wife is fat. Too bad he doesn’t have a hot wife like Cole Hamels

  77. mbonzo says:

    Yankees gonna go after Kerry Wood and Feliciano now?

    • Avi says:

      Feliciano stinks and there are about 7 free agent relievers that are just as good as Wood for half the price. I hope the Yanks don’t get fooled by Wood’s super low ERA as a Yank. There’s no way he can maintain a sub 3.00 ERA while issuing walks at the rate he did.

      • mbonzo says:

        Feliciano stinks against righties… he’s the best LOOGY on the market now though. What relievers not named Soriano would you want instead?

        • I’m on the boat for Choate.

        • Avi says:

          I think Wood is going to be over payed. I think guys like Rauch and Guerrier are just as effetive as him and will get less money. Feliciano is not good, he walks too many guys for a reliever, He’s a nibbler. Also he isn’t good against lefties every year.

          • mbonzo says:

            LOOGYs always have inflated walk rates due to intentional walks and pitching around righties. If you think he’s inconsistent with lefties, he’s got better career numbers than Scott Downs. His SO/9 rate is also better than his, so I don’t know how you can say he’s a nibbler.

            I also think Woods would be overpaid, but he’ll probably make less than Guerrier and Rauch. They’ll also be looking for a closer job, where I think Wood would accept a setup job in NY.

  78. Villa d'Somer says:

    Time for a little re-up with the J-Up talk.

  79. China Joe says:

    So Cliff Lee’s wife wanted to go to Philly? The place where a guy intentionally vomited on an 11 year old girl last season? Yeah, stay classy…

  80. Halladay/Lee/Hamels/Oswalt says:

    At least if the offense hits like it actually as the potential to do we can hide the pitching disaster – sorta. (No, Mark, you can’t hit .254, flash some leather and call it a day. No Curtis, you can’t hit .220, give to charity, and deserve tens of millions of dollars. And no, Alex, you don’t deserve $30M for dating Cameron Diaz and giving smug looks after you strike out 140 times a season)

  81. Rod says:

    Joba, Montero, nunez for Greinke. sign Martin and talk andy into coming back. re sign wood or soriano with extra money.

    • FIPster Doofus says:

      Nice plan … too bad that’s not nearly enough to land Greinke.

    • Big Juan says:

      Again, people need to realize that Joba, Montero, Nunez will not come close to landing Greinke. I wouldn’t be surprised if a realistic price was Hughes, Montero, Gardner, Banuelos/Betances, Nunez/Laird.

      • First Time Poster says:

        Way to much. I don’t know what it would take… but compare your package to say, the A-Gon package. A-Gon was arguably as valuable — not as valuable, but was close– to Zack’s value. The Royals would be getting 2 ML ready starters who are as cheap as they are awesome along with one of the games best prospects, one of the better pitching prospects, and a high-stock, fringe player. Way to much.

        • Big Juan says:

          You may think that’s way too much, but from what I’m hearing, that’s the kind of package the Royals are asking for currently. Which is why a Greinke trade has little to no shot at happening.

          It’s not about what you think is fair, it’s about what the Royals think they should get for him.

          • First Time Poster says:

            The Jays will have to give up Dreybek and Snider as their center-piece. Hughes and Gardner >> then those two guys. IMO, It will take more then those two packages… but not accompanied by Montero and the likes of Man-Ban/

            • Big Juan says:

              From my understanding, Drabek and Snider was just a starting point for any talks.

              • Avi says:

                No way. There’s no way they’re getting those two guys for Greinke.
                As far as your trade proposal: Your trade proposal sucks! Do you realize you’d be giving away the most talent of any trade in history? (when star players are traded for young players)

  82. Avi says:

    The Phillies added Roy Halladay, Roy Oswalt and Cliff Lee in the same time the Yankees added Javier Vazquez.

    • Big Juan says:

      They also completely depleted their farm system and have no money to address an aging offense. Oswalt, Halladay and Lee are all presumably 2-3 years from beginning their decline and they haven’t even started paying Ryan Howard his massive/idiotic extension.

      Maybe we could all get off the Phillies crotch for a bit? The rotation is great, no doubt. But the team certainly has its holes.

      • Avi says:

        The fact that the Phillies were able to trade for Halladay and Oswalt while we were busy getting Vazquez (again) bothers me. They didn’t give up much for Oswalt. I’m not sold on Happ and Austin Romine is a better prospect than Anthony Gose.

        • Big Juan says:

          The Yankees also weren’t interested in Oswalt, and I don’t think they should have been. I’m not interested in him pitching in the AL East.

          And the Vazquez trade may bother you, but it’s very fair to t say that it was a solid risk at the time. Additionally, it has nothing to do with Oswalt.

          • Avi says:

            Why wouldn’t Oswalt be great in the AL East? Why would you have reservations with him more than any other ace?
            I bring up Vazquez because it illustrates Cashman’s very poor judgment when it comes to pitchers.

            • Big Juan says:

              First of all, Oswalt’s days of being an ace are over.

              And sure, if you want to pretend you knew that Vazquez would flop as miserably as he did.

              • Avi says:

                “Oswalt’s days of being an ace are over”

                Yeah cuz he sucked this past year.

                “And sure, if you want to pretend you knew that Vazquez would flop as miserably as he did.”

                Um, I did. And so did just about anyone who existed in ’04. Bringing back Vazquez was as dumb as signing Pavano now.

                • Big Juan says:

                  You’re pretty talented at taking what I say out of context. I said he’s not an ace. Not that he isn’t a good pitcher.

                  And whatever on the Vazquez topic. If you didn’t think it was a good risk to bring in a guy who finished top 3 in the NL Cy Young to be their #4 starter you’re misguided.

      • First Time Poster says:

        I completely agree with Avi. Great moves to land four ace’s in less then two years. They hurt their farm system… but it is not a barren scrub-land.

        Also, they’re “ageing offense” is a little over-stated, no? Utley is the best 2B in the game. Howard is still awesome, despite the recent bandwagon to say he sucks. Rollins still sucks… but is under contract for one more year. The Phillies have no huge commitments to anyone but Howard and Lee. Both Utley and Doc are owed a lot of money, but not for that long and they are still plenty awesome.

        • Big Juan says:

          Utley still a premiere player, but the types of injuries he’s had are definitely a cautionary sign. Historically speaking, not many second basemen have sustained his level of performance.

          Howard is an atrocity. They have one more year of Ibanez. Rollins is in decline. Will Polanco continue to be productive? Plus they lost Werth, who was arguably their best hitter.

          I’m not sitting here saying they’re an awful team. I’m just saying they have real issues that people seem to overlook.

          • bexarama says:

            Howard is an atrocity.

            …WHAT? He’s hideously overrated and not great against lefties but he is definitely no “atrocity.” Unless you were talking about his contract in which case yes, no argument there.

          • FIPster Doofus says:

            I agree with a lot of what you said, Juan. Despite their godly pitching staff, the Phils are not a shoo-in for the World Series. Werth was either Philly’s best or second-best offensive player (Utley being the other), and now he’s gone.

            Ruiz – excellent

            Howard – good offensively but overrated in that regard, a terrible defender, and his contract will be an albatross when it kicks in.

            Utley – still the best 2B in the game, IMO.

            Rollins – overrated, but better than most short stops.

            Polanco – above average

            Ibanez – awful

            Victorino – very good

            Brown/Francisco – loads of potential for Brown, but he could falter as a youngster; Francisco is nothing more than a platoon player

            On paper, I’m not overly impressed by that offense. Werth is a huge loss in the short term.

  83. FIPster Doofus says:

    What a fucking catastrophic clusterfuck nightmare. I can’t believe I sat around like a moron and waited for this chump to make a move. Fuck you, Lee. You’re no Mussina.


  84. Pat D says:

    I think we maybe just all need to come to the realization that all the money spent after 2008 might only net us the one ring. (No, not this:

    I just get this vibe that they opened their wallets like the Celtics did to bring in Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, but the level of success is just not sustainable.

    I just really think that everything has to go right for them to win a World Series next year, and considering the age of a lot key players, that’s probably asking too much.

    So they’d better not panic, because they’ll only make a bad situation worse. (*cough*AndyPettittesignswithHoustonsotradeforKevinBrown*cough*)

    • Rarely does the team with what looks like to be the best win. Who would have guessed the Giants and Rangers in the WS. We have a shot, we always do, its just a matter of getting hot at the right time and avoiding injuries.

      • matt says:

        Meh, they acquired Brown for Weaver, they sent nothing but garbage. And fwiw, when he pitched during the regular season in ’04, he was an effective, above league average starter and the ’04 Yanks likely don’t win the East without him. Yeah, it all went to hell from there and that ought to have been anticipated, but Brown didn’t cost the Yankees rings. Selfish asshole with the hand thing? Yep. But it wasn’t the hand that did him in, it was the back and that was beyond his control. He actually threw a gem and won a swing playoff game on the road in the ’04 ALDS. Obviously, he wasn’t even competitive in the ALCS andI know you can point to game 7 – but it was blatantly obvious that the guy’s back was in a place where he had no business being on the mound. Sure,bad job to acquire a guy with chronic back problems but against, didn’t give up anything. Maybe one can argue, as Torre has, that Brown effectively lied to him in saying he was physically able to start game 7. I’ve got no issues with Brown trying to be a gamer, that one’s on Joe. Most likely a Javy start would have been equally disastrous, but I would have gone that way, though really, crazily enough, I always thought Joe should’ve let Loiza start that game, try and stay in it while Mo did some therapy with Duque out in the pen to convince him, that yes, he actually could be available for a couple innings, etc.

        I’m not trying to defend whoever made the call on Brown. The process to me is more important than the result. The result, in my view, wasn’t actually that horrific. But the process couldn’t have been worse.

        You’ll know it’s Cashman’s team when you don’t read tomorrow that the Yanks have sent Montero/Granderson and other prospects to St. Louis for Chris Carpenter (and btw, there may be a scenario where Carpenter makes sense, but as a knee jerk reaction, that one has huge debacle written all over it).

    • Big Juan says:

      The Kevin Brown thing isn’t really a Brian Cashman type move though. If you’ve paid attention over the past few years, it seems like his trademark is patience. I’d expect nothing less here.

      • Pat D says:

        Well they traded for Brown like the same day that Pettitte left, so you imply that wasn’t a Cashman move? Could very well have not been, I just don’t know if there’s evidence of that.

        • Big Juan says:

          I’m just saying that trade went down in ’04 when Cashman, IIRC, still didn’t really have the liberty to run things how he wanted to.

          • Pat D says:

            You could very well be right. What they do next proves if Cashman really is running the show.

            • Big Juan says:

              I think he definitely is now and I have faith that he is one of the best GM’s in the game and 5 years down the road we will be very pleased with how all of this happened.

    • Mr. Sparkle says:

      I think if they want to contend next year, they can do so if they get OK pitching while the lineup produces WAY more than last year. Please, don’t throw out the “most runs in baseball” argument. We all watched last year and the clutch hitting just wasn’t there. They have to spread those runs out a little more evenly. Not a bunch of weeks with 2-4-3-12-1-2.

      • FIPster Doofus says:

        “Please, don’t throw out the “most runs in baseball” argument.”

        Because it’ll ruin the narrative?

      • matt says:

        I freaking hate the debate, since it shouldn’t be a debate, but simply by moving heaven and earth, even if it means going back up to 16m to bring back Andy and then, yep, take the guy who was “going to be our Josh Beckett” and simply has too much raw ability to be wasted in low-leverage friggin middle relief (he’s not even pitching TEH 8th anymore), and let him know that as of tomorrow he is, and will be, for the duration of ’11 campaign (barring the totally unforeseen), a member of the Yanks starting rotation. You can’t tell me that CC-Andy-Phil-Joba-AJ, if things break even pretty well, doesn’t all have to go perfectly, isn’t a playoff caliber rotation. On paper, right now, yeah Boston is the favorite in the east. But frankly, the teams ought to be awfully close in terms of offense, with Jesus being the real wild card, if he actually shows up and rakes, the Yanks remain the best offensive team in the division (Lord knows Tampa better be ready to pitch its as off, not a ton of pop left there) and I think it’s eminently reasonable that the aforementioned rotation could equal the BoSox. I’m still taking CC as the best pitcher on either staff, but CC-Lester is basically a wash. For Andy, I take Lackey as my comp and I think Andy’s superior, though Lackey will throw more innings. Then trying to match up guys gets a ton trickier. It’s a strange comp, but who’s to say that Joba isn’t ready, as a starter to be Beckett’s equal, esp. the version of Beckett we saw last season? There’s no question Buchholz’s ERA is going to move closer to his FIP for all sorts of reasons, but he’s a heck of a pitcher; Phil Hughes is an awfully nice pitcher too and don’t forget Buchholz is a full two years older. Let’s see if Phil continues to progress before we assume that spot is a clear cut win for Boston. And Dice-K-AJ? Who the hell knows?

        Again, on paper, right now, I’d give Boston’s rotation the edge. But let’s see what things look like in a couple months.

        Finally, in the imaginary (the fact this is probably imaginary literally makes me angry enough to want Brian Cashman dismissed and I love Cash) world of Joba the starter, if the Yanks take certain logical steps to shore up their pen, there’s no reason why they shouldn’t sport the better bullpen.

        Tampa will probably surprise me and they’ll definitely pitch, but that lineup and bullpen are so badly degraded that I have trouble envisioning it being a true three team race all the way through. That’s why I can’t wait for the games.

  85. Anthony Murillo says:

    I honestly never expected Cliff Lee to sign with the New York Yankees. It was obvious from nearly the very begining that he was hoping another team would get into the mix and give him an excuse to turn down the Yankees and the Rangers – turns out that team was Philadelphia.

    It would have been fantastic to have seen Cliff Lee in Yankee pinstripes, to re-joing C.C. Sabathia in a starting rotation, to give us Yankee fans another reason to be so thankful towards the Yankees front office. But I wasn’t mean to be; Brian Cashman did everything in his power to bring Lee to the Bronx and in no way, shape, or form is this his fault.

    The bottom line is this: Cliff Lee did not want to be a New York Yankee. Is that baffling? It damn sure, considering the amount of money he left on the table AND the certainty of appearing in post-season after post-season, possibly winning World Championship and World Championship.

    But you know what?

    If he didn’t want to be a Yankee, fuck him.

    We’re the greatest franchise in the history of sports. Stop talking about Sergio Mitre and Ivan Nova being in the Yankees rotation, we all know that’s not how this story will end. Cashman will pull something off, perhaps something we didn’t even think about. We just have to wait and see but please, have faith in Cashman.

    Lee feels like he made the best choice possible. Well, the Yankees will show him he was wrong. Just like they showed Maddux in 1996 and 1999. The Yankees will get the last laugh; nothing is won in December. This discussion about a Red Sox/Phillies World Series is nonsense.

    Have faith in those pinstripes, have faith in Cashman. And you know what? I say we’re better off without someone that truly did not want to be here. If you don’t want to be a Yankee, to be apart of an organization with 27 World Champions, with 40 American League Championships, an organization that has birthed some of the greatest players in the HISTORY of baseball…well screw you.

    We’ll show ‘em, boys and girls. Don’t worry about that. This isn’t over…


  86. bonestock94 says:

    For all the mocking of the sports media on this, they’ve pretty much been right. All the mystery tesm talk and negative foreshadowing for a while wasn’t inaccurate. The small time people need to listen up when the heavy hitters talk.

    • Big Juan says:

      Meh. I would say #mysteryteam type things are usually just ways to drive up the price by an agent. Just like Olney said this morning. This one incident doesn’t make me anymore likely to pay attention to the rumor mongering that goes on.

  87. tsell says:

    Even as we despair, and I’ll still probably hate him forever, but it’s easy to see that he made a respectable move. It wasn’t about the money for him, and he’s going somewhere where he’ll have a very good chance at winning multiple championships. It’s true that the Yankees and we fans should and do feel disrespected, but we can’t expect the Yankees’ financial advantage to instrumentalize people into nothing more than purchasable players.

    With the Jeter negotiations in the rearview, as well as the news that Rivera approached the Red Sox, it’s nice to know that money doesn’t determine everything. It just sucks to recognize that maybe a free agent sees a better shot at a championship elsewhere right now.

  88. DJH says:

    Yu Darvish will be a Yankee in 2012, book it!

  89. yanksfanspokane says:

    Again, not the end of the world folks! People were similarly upset after the Johan Santana trade (and rightfully so in the respect the Mets traded garbage, which we all knew at the time). Nevertheless, holding onto Hughes and whoever else proved worthwhile, not to mentionthe dollars allocuted to a pitcher who has had two injuries in his 3 seasons with the Mets (and wont be pitching again until July 2011 at the earliest). Phils saved the Yanks from themselves…I know flags fly forever but I for one am not upset, especially after the games Lee and his bitch agent played. After seeing how they played this, wouldnt be surprised to see Lee pull a “Pavano”…they seem like mutual bitches.

    • FIPster Doofus says:

      One obvious difference: At least after losing out on Santana, the Yankees knew they’d have a shot at Sabathia the next year. To my knowledge, there aren’t going to be any top-level pitchers on the market next offseason. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong…

      • Big Juan says:

        You’re correct. The top names are Buehrle, Carpenter, Wandy Rodriguez, Edwin Jackson, and C.J. Wilson. Oswalt also has 2012 club option.

  90. Daniel says:

    Cliff Lee = Lebron
    Doesn’t have the cojones to pitch in the Big Apple

    I tell myself this as I cry myself to sleep tonight

  91. Superking says:

    Of course, Lee’s decision is a little disconcerting. It would’ve been nice to see Cliff dismantle Boston’s juggernaut lineup for us, but what’s done is done.

    Fortunately, we still have a formidable team. We made it to the playoffs with essentially a three man rotation, with Vazquez riding pine and Burnett as flat as a pancake. Hopefully, Pettitte comes back for one more season. After that, even if we have Nova as our fifth starter, I’m pretty content with this team. I’d like to see what Montero can do with the bat and behind the plate, and hopefully we’ll get some better years out of Jeter and Burnett.

    And can you honestly believe that Cashman won’t at least inquire about some frontline players? He still has some payroll to utilize, and I’m sure he’ll look to upgrade other parts of the team if he doesn’t acquire another starter (for the #5 spot… it’s very likely he’ll get one if Pettitte retires and two spots remain open).

  92. What Won't Jesus Montero Do says:


    I don’t even know what Cashman can do but hopefully the ninja takes over a pulls off something incredible. And without giving up Montero.

  93. EnVy1 says:

    Well @ least Doc Halladay got his wish, a hundred million dollar bitch. Remember? not too long ago a guy named LeBron James, just remind Lee to bring a lot of KY jelly.. We will survive this…

  94. BigBlueAL says:

    All I can say is, Thank Mo for the Knicks right now….

  95. Joe D. says:

    Thank you, Cliff Lee, for saving the Yankees from themselves. 2011 and perhaps 2012 won’t be as happy without you, buddy. But you saved us from an awful lot of hand-wringing, cringing, and regret in the five years beyond that.

    Late bloomers decline early. Make the most out of the next couple seasons, enjoy the boatload of cash, and good luck in Philly.

  96. Dr. O says:

    Wow do I feel bad for Texas. I think as Yankee fans we’re used to seeing them used as negotiating leverage or to generate interest, but for Texas to get fed all this “closer to home” and “really loved Texas” and then the rumors that he may take less money if they were willing to give him 6 years…then to see him sign with Philly for less money and years? Gotta sting.

    Its like a pretty girl at school and two guys competing over her for the prom. Guy 1 has the money, the car, the popularity but Guy 2 is a bit of an outcast but she says she feels a connection with him and he spends hours on the phone with her, sends her flowers he had to work extra shifts to afford. Then one day she walks up to Guy 2 at his locker and says “Hey can we talk later?” and he waits with excitement all day, starts planning where he’s taking her for dinner. Then he walks out to his car and sees her making out with her old boyfriend in the parking lot (he’s still suspended for providing weed to grade school kids). The same old boyfriend that dumped her out of the blue over christmas for another girl. That kind of sting.

  97. I wish a camera was filming Ol’ Krucky when he found out Lee signed. I am glad I don’t watch Baseball Tonight anymore because its going to be H2OL all day

  98. First Time Poster says:

    I wonder if Harden can be gotten for super-cheap. I’d take him on a 1/5 with 5 in incentives.

    Maybe Duke on a 1/2 with a similar incentive package. Pair either one with Nova and that seems like a decent #5 to me.

    Would it have not been smart for pitchers like Kuroda to hold off signing to gain a monumental amount of leverage in the scenario? Worst case he gets the same deal he got with the Dodgers.

    • bexarama says:

      Duke already signed with the Diamondbacks. And I’m not interested in Harden either, really. That seems like a bigger waste of $5M waiting to happen than the NJ signing.

      • First Time Poster says:

        Oops. Forgot about Duke suiting up with them pesky D-Backs. I still think Harden is a decent enough allocation of resources. The potential return could be significant with very small risk ala Johnson, Nick.

    • Big Juan says:

      Harden hasn’t been healthy…ever.

      Duke signed with the Diamondbacks.

      • First Time Poster says:

        He threw 141.0+ innings in ’08 and ’09. I don’t see this as a “He’ll start 30″ move but a “lets get 120 innings of not shit ball outta this guy”.

        • Big Juan says:

          Fair. But from what he showed last year, there are no indications that he’d be a contributor.

          His fastball velocity dropped, his K/9 dropped, his BB/9 rose and he had a career worst .260 average against despite a BABIP exactly in line with his career average of .284.

    • MT says:

      Harden? Considering he only tossed 92 innings and had a worse ERA than Burnett, I’m guessing he could be had on the cheap. Don’t think he’s worth the gamble, though.

      • First Time Poster says:

        But what gamble? They took the same chance on Johnson. They lost. How badly did it hinder the team? Other then the hole that he’d left int he line-up the 5.5 was irrelevant. With Harden… anything would be gravy. He gets hurt… which is what we’d expect to happen. They call up Nova/Brackman pending on the time of year or trade mid-season from a team out of contention.

        Very risky… but for the gamble of 5 million (assuming that would get you Harden) it seems well worth the cost.

      • Mr. Sparkle says:

        I always liked Harden, but he’s always injured and lately, seems to perpetually be “getting back into mid-season form.” A five inning pitcher at best. A few years ago I’d take a flier, but I think his situation is pretty clear at this point.

  99. First Time Poster says:

    Li + H20 –> H2 + LiOH



  100. candyforstalin says:

    this thread is, frankly, pretty bad. awful day for rab.

  101. cano is the bro says:

    well cliff, i hope you and your fat-ass wife enjoy living in shit-hole philly with all those class act fans!

    /it’s personal

  102. Mike says:

    Wish we had a farm system that could produce our own aces. The Red Sox aces are all homegrown (Lester and Buchholz). Beckett and Lackey are both free agents and they blow. If our farm developed ace pitchers we wouldn’t need to rely on 32 year old pitchers in free agency.

    • bexarama says:

      Beckett and Lackey are both free agents and they blow.

      Not teh superace!!!

    • Big Juan says:

      I’m pretty sure Hughes and Pettitte are home grown. Also pretty sure they have three solid to elite pitching prospects at AA or higher right now. The Red Sox absolutely cannot say that. So if you want to trade feel free.

      • Mike says:

        Hughes had a 4.00 era last year. A good pitcher but not a lock down ace like Lester, Buchholz, or Sabathia. Cashman has had years to produce a viable ace pitcher. So far we have Hughes and an aging Pettitte in the rotation. Our AA prospects aren’t proven yet. I’m looking for results. He’s had plenty of time to produce, and he hasn’t.

        • Big Juan says:

          Not really though. Up unitl 2006 the Yankees were pretty hamstrung by the draft picks they forfeited. A lot that wasn’t really Cashman’s doing. Since him and Oppenheimer took charge, Hughes, Joba, Kennedy, Banuelos, Betances, and etc. have all come up through. Seems okay so far.

          Also, you’re giving Buchholz way too much credit and selling Hughes well short.

          • Mike says:

            Here’s what I see. Hughes faded after the all-star break, and he didn’t really impress me much in the post season either. He started off well but finished poorly. Buchholz was more consistent throughout the year. I’m hoping for a more consistent performance from Hughes next year, but I’m not ready to put him in Buchholz’ level yet.

            • Big Juan says:

              Fair. But you also shouldn’t be willing to put Buchholz anywhere near the level of Sabathia or Lester.

            • matt says:

              1. Buchholz is two full years older than Hughes

              2 Buchholz’s xFIP of 4.20 in 2010 is basically identical to Phil’s 4.33.

              3. While both were beneficiaries of pretty low .babip against, Clay’s was a pretty significantly low .265 (.281 for Phil) as opposed to the .302 league average.

              4. Phil’s K/9 of 7.45 is somewhat significantly above league average (7.22); Clay’s 6.22 is quite significantly lower than league average. Clay doesn’t miss nearly enough bats to sustain his 2010 ERA.

              5. Phil walked 2.96 men per nine in 2010, Clay walked 3.47; league average was 3.28; again, Phil’s number being superior to Clay’s and with Phil checking in above league average, Clay below.

              6. Clay permitted fewer hits per nine (about 7.25), but Phil was no slouch here, checking in 8.16 and that difference basically equals the difference in .babip.

              7. Phil had a significantly better K/BB mark of 2.52, above league average; Clay’s 1.79 was well below average and is very much a warning sign moving forward.

              8. In conjunction with Phil being two years younger, he accomplished the above despite exceeding his previous high in IP by a full 45 innings, if you count his postseason innings; Clay on the other hand had already thrown an 190 IP season in ’09 (throwing significantly less, 173, in ’10).

              9. Clay allowed fewer homers, induced a higher GB rate and had a higher strand rate (in the last case, not by much). Essentially, the only area that Clay really did a superior job to Phil was in keeping the ball in the yard, 0.47 HR/8 is sick (and not sustainable). Phil’s 1.28 HR/9 is too high, but again, Clay’s got two full years on Phil, let’s see if Phil progresses in that respect.

              So, please, yeah, I suppose I’d say that Clay had a slightly marginally better year than Phil – but a lock down ace? If Clay’s a lock down ace, then Phil is pretty damn close to being an ace now, despite the age gap. Of course, I’d never in a million years use Clay Buchholz and “Lock-Down Ace” in the same sentence, that’s just looking at a low ERA and being silly.

              They’re both nice pitchers. Tough to argue the notion, though, that Phil is much further along in his age 24 season at the MLB level (fwiw, Clay at 24 in MLB went 2-9 with a 6.75 ERA – in his defense, his xFIP was similar to what it is now – but he also walked close to five per nine and gave up bombs at exactly the rate Phil gave them up this year).

              Very, very hard to argue that Phil isn’t further along at this particular point of his career as compared to where Clay was at the same point.

        • bexarama says:

          Please, Buchholz is in no way the ace that Lester and Sabathia are. He’s a good young starter but check his peripherals.

          • matt says:

            Right on, I spell this out in quite a bit of detail below, in many key respects one could argue that Phil was the better pitcher this year, despite his being two full years younger. Essentially the only area in which Clay was truly superior was in keeping the ball in the yard. Phil misses a ton more bats, allows less walks and, without question, is vastly superior to where Clay was at his age 24 season, in which he posted a cool 2-9, 6.75 at the MLB level, giving up bombs at the same rate that Phil did this year, but also walking a cool five per nine. Not to mention that Phil, in many cases, had the better peripherals in a season in which he exceeded his previous high in IP by a full 45 innings, counting the playoffs. Clay, on the other hand, had already tossed 190 in ’09 (as compared to the 173 he managed this year).

            Not saying that I think Phil is better than Clay or that I think either of them will ever truly be #1 guys. But Phil’s path in that direction has certainly started earlier.

        • matt says:

          I’m in the optimistic camp about this club’s future but the question really is, a bridge to where? It’s not ’08, where not landing Santana was cool since CC was out there lurking. No studs in the ’12 free agent pitching class, period and I don’t think even those who love all of them think the Killer Bs are going to be top of the rotation guys in ’12. Not to mention, if Mo blesses us with one more year of Andy, he’s certainly done after ’11, creating another whole. You want to try and make this a bridge year, it starts with a complete and utter reversal of the call on Joba – you announce tomorrow he’ll be in the rotation for the duration of the ’11 campaign. Phil continues to progress, if Joba can even just produce the numbers he was putting up through about the end of July in ’09 (and while I don’t expect to see him sitting 95-96 as a starter, I have many reasons to believe he’d be back in the 93-94 range, as opposed to 91-92). And maybe, just maybe, one of the three Bs is an emerging front of the rotation stud in ’12. A lot would have to go right, certainly one would need endless contingency planning, but if the chips fell into place the ’12 rotation could be the type that everyone knows is going to be awfully good for an awfully long time. Thing is, going with this strategy – and this is consistent with the bridge year concept – is that you can’t move Jesus. Quite the opposite, he needs to catch 100 plus games in the majors in ’11 and quite frankly, he needs to shown signs that he can stick behind the dish (I don’t think anyone doubts he’s gonna rake), because Jorge won’t be around for ’12, which is fine if Montero can catch, since once can always find a great DH. Heck, if the right 3B happened to be available, maybe Arod’s already DHing come ’12. The trickiest part of all this is going to be what happens at short; I do think Jeter will bounce back offensively, but not the point where his bat sticks at any other position and at some point this team’s next shortstop is gonna need to be identified (with the understanding he’s not going to be the special type of offensive player Jeter was, so long as Jesus rakes and Cash acts sensibly, the rest of the lineup will absolutely support a more defensive-oriented shortstop, albeit not a true offensive black-hole). Interesting times.

    • bonestock94 says:

      Buccholz is not an ace.

      We have 3 major pitching prospects reasonably close a couple of years away. The emphasis on the farm is relatively new to the Yankees. I’m hoping this failure will lead to even more emphasis on the farm rather than trading + FA’s.

      • Mike says:

        I would trade away all those AA pitching prospects for Lester and Buchholz. If Cashman had put as much emphasis on the farm as he does on Free agency, we’d have much more to show than just Hughes.

        • matt says:

          Not even making sense now, Lester and Bucholz were once AA prospects. Do you have a post written somewhere to this same effect from 2008, when Clay, in his age 24 season (which Phil just had this year) went 2-9, 6.75? Or from 2006, when Lester threw to a 4.76 ERA, 4.56 FIP and 5.05 xFIP? Or maybe 2007 when Lester’s slash was 4.57/5.24/5.13?

          Jon Lester is indeed an ace. You act like he was born one. Revolutionary thought that you’d trade AA prospects for a top 10 MLB pitcher, Cash ought to get you on the phone right away.

  103. FIPster Doofus says:

    Cashman has to keep breathing. For tomorrow the sun will rise. Who knows what the tide could bring?

    /Cast Away’d

  104. Mr. Sparkle says:

    On the lighter side of things…how many dopey Mets fans are you going to run into the next few days (or hear on the radio) mocking the Yankees for missing out on Lee while not realizing it’s their own division rivals that have just improved themselves? They’re probably more affected by the signing than the Yankees. At least for the next two, maybe three years.

  105. cano is the bro says:

    i know this isn’t the real reason for Lee deciding to go to the Phillies, but I’ve been hearing rumors about how the wife incident played a big part in it and how she “didn’t forget”.

    Does she not realize that she will be going to the most classless fanbase in all of sports?? I mean last year some idiot at a phillies game intentionally made himself puke on a dad and his 11 year old girl…

    it’s atrocious shit like that which is part of the reason I hate philly sports teams

    • Bo says:

      And Cleveland’s a bucolic paradise where seldom is heard a discouraging word, too… If we’ve got a Doug Christie-type wife going on here, they can enjoy Philly together.

  106. hogsmog says:

    Has anyone considered the idea of… a bridge year?

  107. matt says:

    My (as always, long) initial take:

    First off, as I promised, let me admit at the outset that I couldn’t have been more wrong re: Lee. I’ve taken a long walk of shame (hey, at least I knew there was no way he was going back to TX ::)

    First, addressing the common theme in this thread that Cash has done a done job. He hasn’t been perfect. But he’s changed the entire thinking of the organization since he took full control, put together a world champion and a near miss at another one while generally cutting, a bit, the payroll and making the club younger. Re: Lee, no way that’s on Cash, clearly everybody, most certainly myself, had Cliff Lee misread. That said, the notion that Cash should have been moving on to plans B and C is silly because they don’t exist yet. In particular, the notion that that Cash should have signed Crawford to that unconscionable contract just so that he could maybe then flip an outfielder for a stater is lunacy. Right this second, is Boston the clear favorite in the AL East? You betcha. Are the Sox going to regret that Crawford deal probably for quite a number of years? Almost no doubt. So now it’s about where we go from here – and this is where Cash loses me, because there’s certainly a viable solution that is largely internally driven as to the rotation and as such, could allow the club to dramatically improve the pen and bench.

    I’m generally a Cash supporter, but he’s lost me on Joba. There are a million directions the club may go in right now, Lord knows I’ve got 20 (what I consider to be realistic, e.g., taking some pain to get value) trade scenarios, rambling around, but as of this moment, the simplest path doesn’t involve any trades, certainly not yet:

    1. More or less give Andy whatever it takes to get him back for one year. 16/17m? No problem.
    2. Announce tomorrow that Joba Chamberlain will prepare for the season as a starting pitcher and will be a member of the rotation for the entirety of 2011.

    Right there, you’ve greatly simplified your rotation problem. CC/Andy/Phil/Joba/AJ is certainly an above average rotation (quite likely inferior to Tamps’s rotation, how it matches up against Boston depends on a whole host of factors). At the bare minimum, this quickly resolves rotation controversies, makes the Yanks certainly appear less desperate in case they do decide they want to trade for a starter and it has every possibility, as is, of being a starting five that is playoff caliber. And in no sense does this take potential trades off the table. What it does do it try to rebuild the Yanks leverage and recognizes that trades are a different animal, gotta see where everything shakes up, maybe a deal gets done during ST, maybe at the deadline.

    3. Perform extensive, extensive diligence on some of the reclamation guys, e.g. Webb and Duchscherer. Both are going to want ML deals, so in the case of Webb, and it’s highly unlikely, you’ve got to be pretty damn confident that he’s gonna be 90-95% of his former self; as for the Duke, if it looks like the stuff is there, no hesitation in signing him to an MLB deal, as he can always be used in relief. In both cases, if these guys really look right, don’t hesitate to overpay, at least in terms of AAV (obviously not in terms of years).

    4. There’s a lot of money that was earmarked for Lee that can be used now. Normally, I virtually never advocate for multi-year deals for relievers. But here, esp. since I’m putting Joba in the rotation, if I get Wood, Dotel, Fuentes, to a lesser extent Rauch comfortable with not closing in exchange for an overvalued two year package (no longer than two, though), I’d swoop up two of those four in a heartbeat, I’d want Fuentes for sure, just for how legit sick he’s been against lefties, though no doubt he makes me nervous in high leverage spots; between Wood and Dotel, if the Yanks are comfortable with Wood’s meds, I’d overpay to take Kerry back.

    5. Again, to get good supplementary/bench pieces to NY, you’re going to have to overpay a bit and I might consider doing so here.

    (a) Russell Martin I’d absolutely take the chance on, just a really nice fit, he’s actually able to handle a couple of the infield spots too, my optimal plan would largely for Jorge to be banished from behind the dish completely, give Montero April in Scranton and then for the remaining 130 or so games, I split the catching between Montero and Martin, something like 70-60 in favor of Montero and assuming he rakes as expected, I get Montero another 25-30 starts at DH. And btw, all you need to do is sell Martin on the idea, if Jesus can really handle the dish and his bat is too good to sit, he catches two thirds of the games and moonlights at DH from time to time, The tricky part is selling Martin on his being the “starting catcher” and also letting him know that if he shows he can handle the spot, he’ll serve as Arod’s exclusive backup, which is at least another 20 starts. Martin’s almost certainly replacing Montero late pretty frequently for defensive purposes anyway, so when all is said and done, you guarantee Martin two years or overpay a bit for one, he may buy in – and what that gets you is (a) a guy who was once a heck of a catching prospect, was abused by the Dodgers, but still has terrific .OBP skills for a backstop, (b) at minimum an improvement over Cervelli and (c) Montero insurance both in the sense of if Montero’s not ready or there’s a particular starter that can be had in a trade that the Yanks simply can’t pass on.

    (b) Bill Hall – Hall’s value is rooted in the fact that he’s an above average defender at basically any position on the field, including 3B, SS, 2B, LF and CF. The huge question that the Yanks would need to ask, of course, is whether he really regained some of the pop he once had last season or if he’ll go back to being an offensive black hole. Even a slight drop off from last year’s numbers, e.g, if he slugs. 430 rather than .460, then he could be pretty darn valuable because he’s so diverse that he really fills two bench spots – i.e., you don’t need either Pena or Nunez or on your roster, Hall eliminates the need for a guy like Scott Hairston and gives the club the chance to really hone on specialized skill sets. Call me crazy, but Andruw Jones is absolutely worth a look, given his continued strong defensive play in multiple OF spots and his rediscovering quite a bit of pop the last two years. It was really only that one horrific year in ANH where he didn’t at least hit home runs. Alternatively, even though he’s not yet to demonstrate he’s worthy of it, maybe you want to take a flier on a raw talent like Lastings Milledge. Finally it allows the club to sign a player whose truly only one skill is left handed power off the bench. Branyan’s probably a pipe dream, but maybe you give Hawpe a look.

    As an alternative premise to Hall, btw, Laird ought to be given every chance to win a job, his only issue (other than his not hitting at Scranton or in fall ball) is that he can’t play short, so you need to carry Pena/Nunez.

    Is this ideal? Heck no, it has way too many elements of picking up guys whose best days are behind them, but I’m only looking to them as useful bench pieces, the Fielders, the Strawberrys, the Sierras, etc. And it goes against my fundamental beliefs re: the best and most cost effective way to build a bullpen.

    But the bottom line is that simply by moving heaven and earth to get Andy back and immediately reversing what has always been an utterly non-sensical decision re: Joba, you’ve got a rotation built internally, no need to sacrifice anything but the money for Andy. That in turn lets the Yanks use their spending power to improve the parts of their team where the pieces are available, e.g. Martin for Cervelli, the pen and the rest of the bench.

  108. JeffG says:

    Joba back to the rotation please. Lets spend the Lee money on the pen and pray Andy comes back (time to put in a big offer).

  109. JeffG says:

    Also, if the numbers are true: “the Yankees offered a deal that guaranteed Lee $132MM over six years” The 22 per year was not really putting out the best offer… considering the need I’m surprised at that. I though we would have offered 144 over six.

  110. matt says:

    This is a scary thread tonight, man. I wanted Lee too and was certain we’d get him, but particularly the string of comments re: Clay Buchholz being a lock down ace at least made me smile. Can we see what this team looks like come opening day before the world is over? God only knows what’s going on at Lohud right now.

  111. EB says:

    I’m not pissed that Cashman didn’t get Lee.
    I’m pissed that Cashman didn’t get Halladay or Haren or Lee or Lee again.
    In fact, it is insanity that the Halo’s got Haren for essentially Joe Saunders and a box of crackers.
    The next few weeks is where he earns his stripes. You cannot be paying A-Rod (35), Jete (37), Mo (41) and Po (40), $75 million to back them up with the rotation as it stands.

    • matt says:

      Haren’s the one that eats at me. I mean Cash offered Jesus for Doc and got turned down and I’m one of those who will argue that he essentially did trade for Lee – all the stuff about not being willing to put Nunez in the package is garbage, Jack Z. valued Smoak, as a more sure thing position player than Montero and upon being offered Smoak despite having already reached an agreement in principle he acted probably unethically but also in what he thought were his best interests. Cash can’t wave a wand and convince Jack Z. that Jack really wants Montero, not Smoak.

      But gosh, you’d sure think that the Yanks would have been deeply in on Haren. The only issue I see there is that as mediocre as we all know Joe Saunders to be, he is a relatively young, established lefty, who takes his turn every time and has had some big league success. The Yanks didn’t really have a comparable kind of guy, unless you want to put Hughes in the deal. I have to imagine that Joba was offered up but I’ll certainly agree that if Cash didn’t try to construct a package for Haren around Joba and other non-Montero prospects, it’s an awful, awful job.

      Just as a thought, would you have moved Jesus if AZ expanded the deal to include at least Miguel Montero coming back and maybe another nice piece, like a Kelly Johnson?

      • EB says:

        I would have done a Montero + filler for Haren.
        If Cash was willing to do Montero +++ in the deal for 0.5 a season of Lee, why wouldn’t he include Jesus in a deal for 3.5 years (including option) of below market value Haren, who is essentially a RH Cliff Lee-lite?

        Joe Saunders and his 4.61 career FIP in 774IP
        Chad Gaudin has a 4.68FIP over 660 IP….

        • Gosh why aren’t you a GM? You’re clearly way better at this than anyone else

          Why don’t you go back and read about what was going on at the time instead of sitting back months later saying “This is what should have happened.” The Diamondbacks seem to have pretty much only spoken seriously to the Angels and flipped the trigger very quickly to get rid of the salary, as instructed by ownership.

      • AndrewYF says:

        What do we know about Haren?

        The Yankees didn’t have anyone on their team remotely like Joe Saunders. Presumably, smart or not, that’s who the D-Backs really wanted, or someone like him.

  112. emac2 says:

    People need to get a grip.

    Lee has averaged 13 wins a year for the last two years.

    13.5 over the last 5.

    He’s 32 years old and went to the NL at 20 or more per season.

    How exactly is this the end of the world?


    This is what I would do, sign Pettitte and call up either Andrew Brachman or Dellin Betances. That way we dont have to give up our best prospects for guys who have anxiety disorder and would not work out in the new york spotlight….

  114. emac2 says:

    And Boston paying 20 per year for 7 years to an aging Gardner with a little bit more power is supposed to scare me?????

    Grow some nads Yankee fans! I’m sorry the 2011 series isn’t tied up in a bow yet and that you might have to go into the year not knowing that you will win.

  115. Jimmy says:

    I realize that a lot of people are just reacting to this news, but a couple points on the repeated themes in these comments:

    1. Cashman is not at fault here. If he had gone much further in money or years, the same people would trash him for over-committing. He is the same guy who signed Sabathia and pulled Teixeira away from Boston a couple years ago. He didn’t suddenly get bad at his job since then. Sometimes plan A just doesn’t work. He’ll have backup plans, they’re just not as good as signing Lee. If the Yankees could just sign whoever they wanted, what’s the fun in that? It keeps things very interesting and now we can maybe whine a little about the Phillies and Red Sox trying to “buy” a World Series.
    2. Wouldn’t it make sense to defer to the Yankee front office on whether Joba can start? There is obviously something convincing that they would not even consider him as a potential starter next year. Either his health, inability to develop secondary/off speed pitches, mental makeup, something. If it would help the Yankees by moving him to the rotation, they would (will?).
    3. The comments about Lee’s wife are disappointing. Yes, she shouldn’t have gone to the press complaining about Yankee fans in general. But isn’t the trash talk just reinforcing her point? Show a little of that class that you are so angry about having been questioned.
    4. Your trade proposals all suck.

  116. matcohen says:

    My Plan B is … do nothing.
    The Yanks have Brackman, Betances, Banuelos, Noesi, Nova, Warren and Stoneburner at AA/AAA.

    Play 2011 as best you can and see how these guys develop.

    This is likely a playoff team given Tampa’s offseason losses.

    The Phillies are the favorites at this point and there is nothing we can do about it.

    • Jimmy says:

      Ideally, you are right. The problem is that the Yankees can’t/won’t give up on 2011 and with the rotation they currently have, they will not be confident enough in their chances to win. Cashman is in a tough short-term spot and will probably need to move some of these chips.

    • emac2 says:

      We can go in there and kick their asses like we did Atlanta after Maddox turned us down.

  117. YankeesJunkie says:

    This sucks! However, the Yankees had a beter offer and got shot down. It happens I am still somewhat befuddled of him choosing Philly who has fans of a similar ilk to NY fans and how he could have fell so in love in two months. Also, if it is true that Texas offered the most money that would surprise me more, I would be furious if I were a Rangers fans. That is not the point though, the Yankees just can´t go out and blow the farm on trying to get a Greinke and especially getting a Buehrle. Hopefully Pettitte decides to re up with the Yanks for one more year and if wants another 1-2 million he has the leverage to do so and at this point would be better than trading prospects.

  118. mbonzo says:

    6:30 in the morning and I can’t get this out of my head. Cashman said that Sabathia and Hughes will be a great 1 2 punch. The fact that he considers Hughes a number 2 pitchers is…”baffling” but how can he consider him a number 2 and not even want Joba in the rotation? Jobas got better numbers as a starter and he can’t even be considered a number 5? Cashman gonna put together a good rotation but consider me “baffled”.

  119. RobC says:

    so stash away the $140 milliion they offerd Lee add another $100 mill and its a 6 yr offer for Albert.

  120. Hughesheretoabuse says:

    anybody else think Philly’s gonna have a hard time locking up Ruiz and extending Victorinio, Utley and Rollins after this?

  121. JM says:

    I hate everything

  122. Poopy Pants says:

    Cashman is a ninja!

  123. JobaWockeeZ says:

    Okay the LeBron comparisons are apt. He changed his name to Cliff LeeBron.

    Offseason ain’t over yet. Get back Pettitte and trade for Gavin Floyd and we’re in business.
    But seriously Lee, wtf.

  124. Mike Ri says:

    Guys even if Pettite comes back what do you expect from him ??/ he’s 90… fuck . .wake up . .We needed lee…. Send Montero and a shit load of prospects to Seattle for Felix

  125. Another Bronx Dynasty says:

    Plan B now should be to go after Soriano & Wood & give a 1 yr to Pettite.

    Make BP bullet proof & work on Chamberlain to the starting rotation. Have Larry R. work very closely with both AJ & Joba. Both are very similar in make up & epitching. Rotation is:

    *Petttie(if re-signs) or Chamberlain

    In 2012 our prospects have another year in the minors & can pull one of the Killer B’s up to the rotation.Get ready for CJ Wilson next yr.

    • Pasqua says:

      Well, I’m pretty sure Plan B will be to swing a trade or two for starting pitching. Relying on “Larry R.” ain’t exactly a plan that championships are made of.

  126. cuponoodles says:

    ManBan, gallup henceforth on thy white steed!

    The thing this deal does more than anything is piss me off even more about the failed Haren trade. Man, he could’ve helped us right about now.

  127. Big Bertha says:

    It’s over, folks. Boston is better than us. We needed Lee to counter the great moves they’ve made. There isn’t another starter out there as good as Lee. So far Cashman has countered with Sergio Mitre. Hopefully the Steinbrenners finally consider firing Brian Cashman for losing Lee in two straight years.

    • Mike Ri says:

      its not Cashmans fault … He put the best offer on the table. Lee never wanted to come here

      • Big Bertha says:

        Then he should have made him an offer that he couldn’t refuse! Go to 8 years and $30 million more on the deal. This was our only chance and Cashman blew it again. Look at how good the Phillies GM is at swinging trades and signings- He has traded for Lee, Halladay, Oswalt, and has now outdone both the Yankees and Rangers in FA for the best pitcher in the game. Why can’t we get someone like that to run our ballclub?

  128. JeffG says:

    This song is making me feel a little better right now:

    …this one goes out to you Cliff and the Phils.

  129. Monteroisdinero says:

    Wow-lots of all-nighters by the students and unemployed I guess.

    Before I go to work:

    1) Who would have predicted SF/Texas world series 1 year ago? No one.

    2) It is a long season with injuries and ups and downs and opportunities to improve your team along the way without panicking.

    3) Do.Not.Trade.Montero. I have seen him play on multiple occasions-he is berry berry good. Miggy/Pujols DOMINANCE at the plate (potential)

    4) Sign Soriano. He WILL take the money and the games will now be 7 innings. Promise him that he will take over in 2 years (or sooner if Mariano falls off a cliff at 42/43) and forget about closer needs for the next 5-7 years.

  130. D'Angelo Jimenez says:

    Calm down my fellow Yankee fans, we will be okay .Plain & simple .

    • Big Bertha says:

      How can you say that? Is Cashman going to swing a deal for King Felix? If not then we’re a notch below the Sox. Good news for us is that Tampa won’t be nearly as good and neither will Texas without Lee. If Pettitte comes back we can make the playoffs but we won’t get past Boston until we can match their pitching and great lineup.

  131. Will says:

    This is all the Mariners’ fault. Can we somehow trick them into trading us King Felix for one of our eight catching prospects?

  132. Dave says:

    Does the extra money left over mean we can now get like 25 million worth of IFAs this year? That would be a nice consolation prize.

  133. Pessimistic Fan says:

    Despite my username, I would rather not panic at the moment.

    To those saying that Cash should have offered Lee even more money and years: what?

    Seven years at some outrageous sum was bad enough even if it might have been worth it overall. Cash did his best, and personally, I couldn’t have done better. In the end, Lee took less money and years for a team he liked (some say that he didn’t care much for pitching in the Texas stadium).

    To those panicking about the Red Sox: it’s not the end of the world.

    Things happen in baseball. Many things that no one could possibly see coming. Granted, the Sox made some nice overhauls, but last year they had a worse year than us (granted a lot of it had to do with injuries). They may have pulled even or bettered us on paper, but we have yet to play.

    To those wondering what the Yankees do now: do not panic, and hope that the team does the same.

    It’s a pretty solid team overall, and Montero seems to be a promising prospect. The guys on the farm should be taking steps forward. Joba should be luckier next year than he was this. Phil should continue to mature into a true major league pitcher. Jeter won’t be as good as he was in 1999 or 2009, but he’s the type to make sure that we don’t get a repeat of 2010 – at least we all hope. Tex should rebound. Robbie should continue to be solid. Our outfield isn’t half bad. A-Rod isn’t the player he once was, but he can still play. CC is a rock in the rotation. And Mo is Mo.

    Granted, there are a few question marks throughout. Pettitte may or may not come back, and he isn’t a young man. AJ will have to learn to pitch with diminishing stuff (this is why our new pitching coach is focusing on him after all). Posada is not longer an everyday catcher, and hasn’t been for a while now. Our bench is of questionable quality. Relievers not named Mariano Rivera are erratic. The rotation has holes in it regardless of Pettitte’s decision.

    I’m not Pollyanna, and I have no intention of acting in that manner, but guys, let’s not panic and start running around like headless chickens. The offseason’s not over yet, and the actual season has yet to be played. Now if we’re getting screwed out of a playoff spot due to poor play on the team’s part, well, then we can panic.

    But let’s hope that doesn’t happen.

  134. First time lawng time says:

    Hopefully the phillies will be like the 2010 yankees you know awesome teammon paper but nowhere near spectacular in life

  135. paul says:

    some people really have to get a clue. hatin on cash? seriously…..Lee didnt want to come here…you dont think cash is working on plan B…? really? and crawford was not a target. so how did theo outwork him? phils didnt outwork him either…Lee didnt want to come to NY…quit hatin…and trust cash…how has he been horrible as of late? wow, get a clue…be real…and trust cash. hank needs to shut up in public forum…sit back and watch it unfold…all will be good in ny…

  136. Wil Nieves #1 Fan says:

    Phillies still are no match for BOSTON’S FIVE ACES!!!!

    But seriously, I never understood RAB’s posts about how we should be “optimistic about signing Lee.” I don’t think any of us felt optimistic throughout this whole process.

    I hope Lee snaps his elbow or gets put away for murder.

  137. Jerome S says:

    As a fan of baseball (and more importantly, a Yankee fan who’s done ranting about this), I’ll actually be very interested to see how this rotation fares going forward. Unlike Boston, the Phillies do appear to be stacked with aces.

  138. First time lawng time says:

    Why’s eveyone ao pessimistic about cash? He alreadyade a great sign this year… Guys we’ve got jeter for 3 years!

  139. Sal says:

    Am I the only one to waste hundreds of hours following the Lee saga????????

  140. jsbrendog (returns) says:

    can everyone go jkump off the bridge now so i can relax and be happy ot be a yankee fan again. jesus, youd think someone died.

  141. Chris says:

    Comparing the 2010 and 2011 teams, the Yankees have improved their offense and will have basically the same pitching if Pettitte comes back. And the 2010 team was just 2 wins away from the World Series despite having their top 2 pitchers pitching injured during the playoffs. Why all of the pessimism that the Yankees are doomed?

  142. Jerome S says:

    We can’t be looking like insane Sox fans after the Teixeira debacle. What’s done is done, and we can’t do anything about it. Remember, if Andy comes back then we still have essentially the same rotation as last year.

    CC will probably be consistent, AJ can’t possibly be as bad as last year, Phil will continue to develop, and could our currently-anonymous number 5 pitcher be anywhere close to Javy Vazquez? Come on.

    • Pat D says:

      And the same rotation as last year wasn’t good enough.

      You have to hope that Hughes continues to progress (should happen), Pettitte doesn’t fall apart (questionable), Burnett pitches like it’s ’08-09 (who the hell knows?), and warm body at #5 is better than Vazquez (toss up).

      A lot of uncertainty.

  143. mike c says:

    but i thought the yankees were the only team that can pay star players? lee didn’t leave that much money on the table. yankees should have made a better offer. maybe they are the ones who need to drink the reality potion

    • Pasqua says:

      It looks like he left 2 yrs. and $28 million on the table. In what world is that “not that much money”? The offer the Yanks made was a king’s ransom and if you think they short-changed him, then I just don’t know what to say to change your mind.

  144. ross says:

    Larry Rothschild, come on down!

  145. pete says:

    Meh, we’re still the best overall team in the AL. And the only way we have to worry about the Phils would be in a WS, where anything can happen. Although, good god that’s a scary rotation. Like, holy fuck. Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay should not be in the same rotation, let alone in one with Cole Hamels and Roy Oswalt

  146. NYFish says:

    Now do the Phillies retain both Kendrick and Blanton or do they trade one of them now that they landed Lee. They don’t really have too many holes, but it seems like an idea time to trade a pitcher (probably Kendrick).

  147. Pasqua says:

    From a long-term perspective, I’m glad we won’t be paying a pitcher in his late 30′s over $20 million a year. In the short-term, I’m excited to see what Cashman does from here, though sad to know that it will porbably come at the expense of prospects that I was looking forward to see play for the Yanks. That’s about it.

  148. YankeesJunkie says:

    The only good thing to come out of Le not signing forsthe yankees is that they now have more payroll flexibility than they would have if they did sign Lee. Considering the amount of payroll that is coming off in the next couple years the Yanks may be able to retain or extend a guy like Granderson, Swisher, Hughes, etc. As long as the Yankees are not reactionary they should be fine.

  149. Pat D says:

    Well after 4 hours of sleep, I can say that I’m still pissed. Which reminds me, I wonder if there will be a new Carl “I’m Pissed” video for this. That might make this ordeal worth it.

    Anyway, yea, time to move on. Can’t let worries of a Sox/Phillies World Series bother me, a lot can happen between now and then. Just hope that the Yankees find a way to upgrade the team without being stupid.

  150. Doug says:

    As a baseball fan and not a Yankee fan, it’s actually nice to see someone not just follow the bucks.

  151. China Joe says:

    Ah, I’ve already seen a bunch of “Cliff Lee didn’t just follow the money. He’s an inspiration” articles.

    Lebron James took less money to play with his friends in Miami. He would have made more in Cleveland. This reeks of hypocrisy.

    • Pat D says:

      The Phillies aren’t the Boogeyman like the Yankees are.

      Oh, and Lee’s white, too.

      • China Joe says:

        This does seem to be a little racially motivated- anyone who bashes Lebron while praising Lee comes off a bit hypocritical.

        Lebron left money on the table to play for a stacked team that he felt had the best chance of winning.

        Cliff Lee left money on the table to play for a stacked team that he felt had the bet chance of winning.

  152. dave b. says:

    looks like the phillies are trading blanton to the red sox to clear payroll. advantage yankees on that one.

  153. Thomas says:

    Christopher Walken on Cliff Lee: (profanity)

  154. OXXBOW says:

    The Yankees desperately need two good starters, preferably left handers. The chances of Pettitte returning are slim to none now and there is no starter worth mentioning left in the free-agent market.

    A real good fit for the Yanks would be John Danks, but I highly doubt that Chicago will trade him.

    Cashman should try and sign Soriano and Wood to bolster the bullpen. He will have to pay Soriano closer money, but the guy is worth it.

  155. Adam says:

    Umm, how many World Series titles did the Braves win in the 90s exactly?

    Let’s go Yanks.

  156. James A says:

    The one thing I hope the Yankees do, although I’m not sure they will, is make Montero untouchable barring a move thats too good to pass up
    Im still not sure how he’ll hold up behind the plate, but I really think he can become an all star and have a big impact in the lineup

  157. Adam says:

    Wow, worst thing ever…Curt Schilling talking about Cliff Lee on Sportscenter.

  158. Doug says:

    If the fan confidence poll were today instead of yesterday, would the overall average be higher or lower?

    Would you personally vote higher, lower, or the same?

  159. Broll says:

    That contract would have been an albatross. It may sting in 2011 but by 2013-2014 we’ll all be saying we dodge a bullet with this guy.

    I think this highlights the mistake in giving up on Joba as a starter. We now have a mediocre 25yr old setup man. The Yanks would have been better with a mediocre 25yr old starter with some potential for improvement.

    • Basil F. says:

      Rothschild + Joba = league average starter!

    • A.D. says:

      No matter who the Yanks signed in FA giving up on Joba as a starter is dumb, if they had the Phillies rotation right now they should still be preparing Joba as a starter

      • Gonzo says:

        Maybe there is information we don’t know about. You know maybe medicals.

        • Ray Fuego says:

          That sounds like a bunch of BS. Yo don’t even seem confident in that.

        • Mister Delaware says:

          Document: Justin Chamberlain’s Medical Records
          Diagnosis: Untrustworthy arm (right)
          Suggested Treatment: Relief work only

          • Broll says:

            If that’s the case, why not: If it aint broke (yet), don’t fix it.

            They moved him to the bullpen to preemptively save him from a future theoretical injury? Really?

            I think it was more the Fatcessa’s of the world coined the phrase “Bridge to Mariano” and they felt like it was a great PR move to fill that slot.

            It made no baseball sense to give up on a 24yr old who pitched the better part of a full season as a league average starter and reduce him to relief work.

  160. Hughesus Christo says:

    The Free Joba Movement needs to start back up today.

  161. king of fruitless hypotheticals says:


    now i need to go back and read all those ‘what if’ and ‘plan b’ posts that i’ve been skipping for the last 30 days…

    has anyone mentioned Joba as a starter yet?
    what about that dude from the white sox…garvin lloyd or floyd or something?

  162. cuponoodles says:

    Does this even really matter past this year when Selig throws in an extra wild card spot in the 2012 season?

    People need to stop freaking out.

  163. tomaconda says:

    I really hope the Yankees do not panic and trade away the farm. They can survive for three months with the rotation they have and hope to catch lightening in a bottle. This gives Joba an potential opportunity to start, maybe take a flyer on Webb or Wang on a minor league deal, continue to develop Brackman, Betances and Banuelos and who knows maybe one of the three Bs is lights out after the all star break. Maybe Joba fullfils the promise that many fans including myself believes he has. Maybe Hughes goes 25-3 with a 1.74 era ala 78 Guidry or Burnett does a 180 and has a career year. But worst case scenario the Yankees could find a pitcher available at the break and trade away less for him because their top prospects have matured and are worth more 6 months from now than they are now.

  164. Ray Fuego says:

    Well, now he’ll be like Lebron. He couldn’t lead any of his own teams to the WS and now he needed 3 other aces to help him.

  165. Mister Delaware says:

    I’d offer Amaro “prospects” for Hamels. Just see what happens, worked for Jack Z.

  166. Januz says:

    I cannot believe how negative people are about Cashman & the team. People forget there is a team that ended up worse, and that is Texas. They lost Justin Smoak for a trip to the World Series (Which they lost) and draft picks. Imagine the outcry, if this happened to us and we lost Montero? Considering the fact he took LESS from the Phillies, than what the Yankees and the Rangers offered, while keeping in mind, that Texas went to the World Series, and is 4.5 hours away from his home in Little Rock, tells me he wanted to go back to Philadelphia, and that is where his heart is.
    The Yankees still have Montero, still have their 1st Round Pick, still have the “Killer “B’s”, Sanchez, Romine, Heathcott, Stoneburner, and one of the best farm systems in baseball, so they can make a trade in June or July if necessary, not to mention, Lee is in the National League, so the Yankees don’t have to face him (Unless they get to the Series). So people need to take a chill pill, calm down, and let nature take its course.

  167. Pissed off Yankees Fan says:

    Fuck Cliff Lee. Fuck his bitch wife. And fuck that toilet bowl city they call Phillydelphia

  168. JerseyDutch says:

    I think this is a blessing in disguise. We don’t have Lee but we do have a war chest and an intact farm system.

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