Open Thread: Jimmy Key

December 12, 2010 by Mike Axisa 304 Comments

Yesterday it was Mike Mussina, today we’ll go with Jimmy Key. No particular reason, the Ben Shpigel link in today’s link dump made me think of him. I remember Key as being solid but unspectacular, though his numbers suggest he was a lot better than a realized, with a 5.2 WAR season in 1993 and a 4.1 WAR season in 1994. Of course, I think everyone remembers Key for Game Six of the 1996 World Series, when he outdueled Greg Maddux en route to New York’s 23rd World Championship. Good times, good times.

Anyway, here is tonight’s open thread. The late NFL game features the Eagles at the Cowboys (doesn’t it seem like these two play every Sunday or Monday?), plus the Rangers Knicks, and Nets are in action. You all know what to do, so have at it.

Jimmy McNulty

Calvin Johnson was balls for my fantasy team today. Lame.
Jimmy McNulty

If this thing drags past next week I’m going to commit bank fraud so the Rangers have to rescind their offer.
http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook

Christian Red of The New York Daily News hears from a source that the Lee situation “should get resolved early this week.”

Wednesday, 2 PM, according to my ‘sources’
- Jimmy McNulty
  
  I mean, it’s not like there was any surprise offer…Cliff knew the circumstances of each situation and the pros and cons to Texas long before any formal offer was made. He’s had a month already, each team has made their best offer. The only thing I could think of is that Texas offered him more money than he expected.
  - http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook
    
    On the flipside, he wants to stay in Texas, but New York offered more money than expected?
    - mbonzo
      
      That to me sounds like he just wants to go to NY and get them to bid more.
    - Jimmy McNulty
      
      I’m pretty sure he fully expected New York to offer what it would take to get him in an Empire State of Mind.
      
      Side note, True or False: If Toby Keith wrote the them of the 2009 Yankees he’d be a Yankee already.
  - Kit
    
    He technically hasn’t had “a month” if the offers just came in like a few days ago.
    - Jimmy McNulty
      
      I’m pretty sure he was fully aware that it’d come down to Texas or New York making the most competitive offers.
      - Kit
        
        But you keep saying he had a month like he literally had both offers sitting in his lap for a month. He hasn’t. He knew some of his choices were New York or Texas back in August. He’s had a few days to mull over it. I’m just as impatient as the next person, but “he’s had a month” is not the best argument. He hasn’t had a month. He’s had about a week and if he needs more time, he should take more time. He’s not deciding whether or not to bake a cake. He’s deciding where he wants to spend what is possibly the rest of his baseball career.
        
        Jimmy McNulty
        
        Ahh…I gotcha. I meant he had a month to decide which place he wanted to pay, the pros and cons of both Texas and New York. Hell, ever since he was traded to Texas and Ryan got the team he’s probably known that it would they would be a very serious bidder in his services.
        
        Kit
        
        Much clearer. And yeah, agreed in that respect.
- Mike
  
  The longer Lee waits, the longer the Yanks can’t make a move to acquire other players, which in turn hurts the Yankees because the best players available have been signed before Lee makes his mind, so, if he were to sign with NY it would hurt him because his new team wouldn’t have the best of the best, so… i think he’ll either sign with the Rangers or with the Red Sox, but not with the Yankees.
  - Jimmy McNulty
    
    MFNHOR
http://rayzayasrivera.tumblr.com Ray Fuego

I remember watching this series as a child with my parent. Good times.
- http://rayzayasrivera.tumblr.com Ray Fuego
  
  Parents**
  
  miss the edit feature :'(
Hughesus Christo

This was a low point in MLB tailoring. Let’s be thankful the pants situation has improved since then.
Carcillo

Eagles at the Cowboys (doesn’t it seem like these two play every Sunday or Monday?)

Well, virtually every team plays on Sunday, so……….
- JobaWockeeZ
  
  I think he means against each other but even then I think it’s their first meeting this year.
  - Sayid J.
    
    Maybe he meant Dallas and Philly are always in the prime time games on either Sunday night or Monday night.
Mantle28

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfO-0f8cjwk
http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

Jimmy Key? What’s he, like 45?

/obligatory’d
- Sam P.
  
  “I could hit him.”
Squishy Jello Person

Knicks and Nets already played.
Jimmy McNulty

I need LeSean McCoy and Jason Witten to go apeshit.
- mbonzo
  
  McCoy won’t. He’s so talented but Michael Vick doesn’t use him at all in the red zone. When he’s inches away, Vick will either throw it every play or try to run it in himself. McCoy only has 3 rushing TDs since week 2. I hate Vick.
  - Jimmy McNulty
    
    I wish those fucking dogs were tougher. Receiving TDs and catches help me too…but Mike Jenkins is a hardcore pussy so who ever he’s covering should have a big day.
  - Jimmy McNulty
    
    Honestly is what I’m really worried about is Flacco ripping the Texans shitty pass defense to shreds.
    - JobaWockeeZ
      
      I have Boldin so I hope he get like 15 points at least.
  - Sayid J.
    
    Call me crazy, but Vick isn’t calling the plays, right? Isn’t the offensive coordinator determining how often McCoy runs the ball? I understand Vick decides when to throw it to him on check downs, but that’s not affecting goal line touches.
Jimmy McNulty

Ben, this may be uncool to ask this here…but could you explain the Mottley rule to me?
- http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook
  
  Ew, legal matter…
  
  =P
  - Jimmy McNulty
    
    I think the rule is that the cause of action to get into a federal court (diversity and 75K notwithstanding) must be a federal cause of action. Just because the defense raises a federal issue doesn’t mean that’s enough to get into federal court. I just wanted to make sure I understood that correctly.
    - mbonzo
      
      Mottley just ruled that there needs to be federal subject matter jurisdiction. This flow chart shows what would be considered federal matters.
      
      http://www.docstoc.com/docs/355891/Law-School-Outline—Subject-Matter-Jurisdiction-Flow-Chart
- Lance
  
  For a complaint to be well plead in a federal question case, the complaint has to arise out of a direct violation of the Constitution, laws, or treaties of the United States. In Mottley, the complaint arose out of the breach of contract b/w the Mottley’s and the RR, which is not governed by federal law. It is irrelevant that the RR’s anticipated defense would be that the contract was no longer Constitutional.
  - Jimmy McNulty
    
    Yeah, that’s what I thought. Cause of action must give rise to federal jurisdiction.
- cheddar
  
  http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/1002961_o.gif
CP

That was their 23rd, not 22nd, right?

2009=27
2000=26
1999=25
1998=24
1996=23
- Xstar7
  
  very true
cheddar

IIRC, didn’t Key propose to his girlfriend a few hours before the game? Talk about cool under pressure.
- http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama
  
  Yes he did. Birth of a Dynasty is awesome if you guys haven’t read it.
TJ

Angels Current Rotation

Weaver
Haren
Santana
Pineiro
Kazmir

Not bad but Lee would be a good fit. Everyone assumes they need an OFer and they did and they obviously lost out on Crawford. However they have Abreu, Hunter and Rivera. I dont think Crawford was that necessary. The rotation needs that Ace caliber pitcher for the playoffs, they lost that with Lackey, and Lee would fit in. I see them involved, and woul dnot be shocked to see them come away with him.
- FIPster Doofus
  
  You’re really obsessed with the Angels, aren’t you?
- http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama
  
  On Friday night, weren’t you going on about how it was ~destiny~ that Lee was going for the Rangers?
  
  You got caught spreading false info (oh oops I messed up Downs and Lee lololol sorry!). Not really sure why you keep banging the Lee drum.
  
  ever they have Abreu, Hunter and Rivera. I dont think Crawford was that necessary.
  
  Rivera sucks. Abreu can’t play the field at this point and should be strictly a DH. They were really, really after Crawford and they seriously shortchanged him.
  
  Also, they have that “ace caliber pitcher.” It’s Weaver. Haren could be too, provided he bounces back a little in terms of ERA and K next year. At this point, I’d rather have both of them than Lackey.
  - http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS
    
    In addition to not being able to play the field, Abreu also posted his worst offensive full season ever, and all three slash stats (.255/.352/.435) were his lowest since his 210 PA rookie “season” as a 23 year old in 1997 (.250/.329/.372). He’ll also be 37 next year.
    
    The Angels rotation was actually fine last year. Weaver is awesome, Haren had a 2.87 ERA in 14 starts after being traded and is an obvious upgrade over Saunders, and Santana threw 220+ innings with a sub-4 ERA. They sucked because they couldn’t hit (team 92 OPS+)
  - candyforstalin
    
    it’s rivera/bourjos/hunter at this point.
    - Jimmy McNulty
      
      Probably Trout/Bourjos/Hunter later this year until they can find a trade partner for Bourjos.
      - http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS
        
        Trout it 19 and hasn’t played a game above A-ball. I doubt we’ll see him in the Majors this year.
        
        candyforstalin
        
        i agree. plus he’s gonna be traded for romine & venditte.
        
        Jimmy McNulty
        
        Ehhh…I wouldn’t be surprised. It’s not like they’ll have better options than him. Heyward’s success in the majors at age 20 probably gives the Halos more confidence about Trout’s abilities. At any rate I expect Bourjos to be traded next offseason.
        
        http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS
        
        Heyward also started his age 19 season with 214 PAs in high-A, then picked up 195 in AA and 13 in AAA and put up a .232/.408/.555 line. That convinced the Braves he could do it at the higher levels. Trout hasn’t had that yet.
        
        http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS
        
        That’s .323, not .232
        
        big difference
        
        Mike
        
        IIRC it was Cox who decided it was time to give Heyward a chance in the majors, i remember him saying in the spring something like “he’s a little ‘green’ but he’s shown me he can be at the major league level, he reminds me so much of Hank Aaron”.
        
        Maybe it wasn’t “green” the word he used but some adjective to denote he still had room to learn and he had shown signs of adapting relatively quick.
- mbonzo
  
  Abreu in the outfield is the new Matsui in the outfield.
  
  Amazing how the Angels went from a team of speed and defense, to a team that breaks bones in walk-off celebrations. In 2 years they went from athletic to just plain old and slow.
- yankees1717
  
  hey TJ, you seem really obsessed with proving why cliff lee won’t come to the yanks.. like are you even a yankee fan?
http://www.or.ly JM

Will you guys bring back the edit feature after the Cliff lee thing is over?
Teh Comp Pick

Sanchez has been terrible this week.
- Jimmy McNulty
  
  He gets Pittsburgh and Chicago over the next two weeks too. Ouch.
- camilo Gerardo
  
  fix: Sanchez is terrible.
Xstar7

Dolphins beat the Jets. YESSSSSS!!!!!!!
- JobaWockeeZ
  
  +10000000
http://twitter.com/kschmidt2 Kiersten

DOLPHINS.
- Jimmy McNulty
  
  My stepdad was a Dolphins fan. He was a lazy guy who was pretty much incapable of emotion. One of his kids is on his third wife (no older than 26) and in the Air Force, the other’s been in and out of jail and is a high school drop out. My mom left him because he was too lazy to pay bills or do much of anything, my dad always said he looked like a Hobbit (short and furry feet, can’t say I disagree). Because of him I hate the Fish, but I think I hate the Jets even more. So I’m okay with this.
  - Eric Young
    
    Based on her past selection, your mom would probably like me.
Carcillo

How the ‘Phins 6-1 on the road, but only 7-6 overall?

Lunacy.
- Xstar7
  
  they’re 1-5 at home
mustang

I remember the Jimmy Key signing it was so big back then along with his abilities he injected the right attitude into that Yankees rotation.
- viridiana
  
  Yes, Key was a lot more important than Mike seems to realize. He was very good his first couple of years with the Yanks. Even when he weakened later in his acareer he was still the type of guy who could give you five good innings before fading.
  
  He also pitched one of the most important games in the pivotal 1996 season. The Yanks had raced out to a 10 game lead, as I recal, but then began to falter. Things had actually gotten quite bad and the lead had shrunk to something like 2 or 2.5 games. With panic setting in, Key pitched a brilliant game against the Blue Jays up in Toronto which basically stopped the slide. They Yanks were on their way to their first championship in 15 years. Amazing that people would forget Key.
  - Mike
    
    I remember a couple of years before the Yanks acquired him, i used to keep track of Key’s game on a calendar in a wall from my room. Every day he pitched i would score either a K if he won, or a backwards K if he lost, with the amount of innings he pitched, strikeouts, walks, and runs allowed (earned and unearned), plus his ERA after that day. I had seen him pitch before and tought he was one of the finest pitchers i had seen in those days, not like raggs nor Guidry, but he had finnesse in his way of pitching.
    
    Imagine my surprise when the Yankees signed him after the 1992 world series when he beat the Braves.
    
    Funny thing… almost the same thing happened with Cone, he was one of the pitchers i liked the most before he went to the Yanks in a trade.
    
    The only two pitchers from back then that i liked and never were acquired by the yankees: Kevin Appier and either Mark Langston or Chuck Finley… LOL yeah, i can’t remember who was who hehehe, but were a PITA every time the Yanks played against them.
  - mustang
    
    “Amazing that people would forget Key.”
    
    So true!
    - Wayne
      
      I can’t believe Mike wrote “I remember Key as being solid but unspectacular.” You either have an ATROCIOUS memory or you don’t know squat about pitching.
      
      Key at his best, as he often was the first few years with the Yankees (as well as prior to that time) was a thing of beauty to watch pitch. He was a mini Lee or Maddux, moving the ball up and down and left and right in the strike zone and just off the plate. He drove hitters absolutely nuts when he was on, which was most of the time during his career, particularly in big games.
      
      Jimmy Key: “solid but unspectacular,” OMFG! Ridiculous!
      
      The current (younger) generation of fans has become too wrapped up in stats. The only way to really judge a player is to watch and study him over a wide number of games and wide range of game situations, which is why every team has a multitude of scouts.
      
      Anyone who watched and studied Key knows he was a mini master at the art of pitching: not HOF worthy, but an elite pitcher, all the same.
      
      Thank you for a lot of great memories, Jimmy. I, along with a few of the guys above, haven’t forgotten how great you were in your heyday.
      
      Jimmy couldn’t jump, but he sure could pitch (sorry, couldn’t resist).
http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

Asked this on Twitter, but want to throw it up here:

Am I the only one who thinks “Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas” is a really sad song?
- mbonzo
  
  Reminds me of a sad scene in Home Alone. You’re not the only one.
  - http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno
    
    The lyrics just seem so desperate to me. As for movie references, it plays right before Luca gets killed, the Don gets shot, and Hagen gets captured.
    - mbonzo
      
      This song is sadistic.
- Stratman9652
  
  I’d say 75% of Christmas music is really depressing if you really listen to the lyrics. “I’ll be home for Christmas” is even sadder if you ask me.
- candyforstalin
  
  …
- http://twitter.com/kschmidt2 Kiersten
  
  YES. Especially when you’re alone.
  
  I was decorating my Christmas tree alone the other day and had my Christmas play list on and that song came on and I have to change it.
- http://www.or.ly JM
  
  There’s this one song that is the epitome of sad Christmas song. It’s called “Christmas Shoes” it’s so depressing it’ll make you feel so sad
- Devil In A Blue Cap
  
  The song originally comes from the movie Meet Me in St. Louis, where the context was decidedly bittersweet: the family that had grown up in St. Louis in 1903 was moving to big, bad New York, and Judy Garland’s character sang the song shortly after her boyfriend proposed, in an attempt to keep her in St. Louis.
  
  So basically yeah, it’s a sad song.
Jimmy McNulty

Holy Shit, looks like the Bills won’t get Luck afterall. They’ll probably do something stupid like think that Fitzpatrick is the answer.
- FIPster Doofus
  
  They’ll draft DL/LB, I think. Maybe Cam Newton if he’s viewed as a first-rounder. I have no idea if he is.
  - Jimmy McNulty
    
    He most definitely is not. The first round quarterbacks are Luck/Mallet/Clausen. Maybe someone will do something retarded and draft him in the first but I can assure you that as a quarterback he is not a first rounder.
    - FIPster Doofus
      
      All right. I haven’t been following any draft prospects this year, so thanks. Are you a Bills fan?
      - Jimmy McNulty
        
        No, I was kinda pegging them to get Andrew Luck though. Carolina has Jimmy Claussen, though…but it doesn’t really make sense to pass over an elite QB prospect like Luck for Jimmy Fucking Claussen.
  - YanksFan in MA
    
    Newton will definitely go in the first round. He’s way more talented than Tebow who managed to get into the first round, as is arguably more talented than Young, who was a 5th year senior. Newton has poor footwork, but that can be easily corrected. He is tall and has a very strong arm and his athleticism is unrivaled. Some team in the 15-32 range will grab him round 1. Bills will go defense, and Fitzpatrick is definitely not the problem. Perhaps if Aaron Maybin wasn’t such a bust they’d be pushing for playoffs, and this is coming from a Pats fan.
Reggie C.

COLE HAMELS.

Signed through 2011 and then hits free agency. If the Yanks lose out on Cliff Lee, why not try to pry Hamels loose which even if unsuccessful would demonstrate to Hamels that he’s got the biggest fish on the market ready to pay him like CC Sabathia. Hamels might then decide to hit FA and then he’ll sign the biggest contract … which will put him in pinstripes.

Or maybe the Phillies shock all of baseball and trade Hamels for a king’s ransom…
- http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa
  
  Cole Hamels doesn’t hit free agent for at least two more years, more than likely three.
  - Reggie C.
    
    I found this: http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=MLB&id=1172
    - http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist
      
      Hamels hits FA after 2013. He still has another year of arbitration.
- Wil Nieves #1 Fan
  
  Hamels is a douche bag.
  - Jimmy McNulty
    
    Didn’t Matt Stairs call him a pussy and tell him to go home during the WS?
    - http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama
      
      that was noted wife-beater Brett Myers.
      - Wil Nieves #1 Fan
        
        +1
camilo Gerardo

Re: why NFC East matchups seem repetitive; it is the best division in football. it all makes sense
Awesome123

I will really be pissed at Lee and Braunecker if Lee is not on a team by the time I wake up tomorrow.
- http://twitter.com/kschmidt2 Kiersten
  
  I will really be pissed at Lee and Braunecker if Lee is not on a my team by the time I wake up tomorrow.
  
  FTFY
http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

(weeps because of Jets failing to get out of their own way)
- MikeD
  
  The Jets will break your heart. It’s their way.
MikeD

Key was excellent. Underrated pitcher. When it seemed that no quality player wanted to come to New York during the dark days of the early 90s, Key was one of the few bright spots that bridged us to the World Championship years. Glad he was part of the ’96 team. Quality pitcher, calm under pressure. Very straight-forward, even negotiated his own contract, and left the game when it appeared he still had something to give. Gene Michael said Jimmy Key and Wade Boggs were the two players that helped turn the Yankees back into professionals.
Carcillo

I loved seeing the Redskins lose the way they did today.

I mean, to lose a game like THAT? I haven’t seen that since the Bengals did that against the Broncos in the snow back in 2006. And furthermore, the increasingly-undermanned Bucs are up to 8-5 now. I know they have basically no potential to do much of anything come playoff time and that many teams with similar records in the NFC (Packers, Bears, Eagles, Giants) are all much better than they are, but what can I say? 8-5 after a 3-13 season a year ago is fun to watch. If not for that collapse last week against Atlanta…
ultimate913

How about them Knicks, eh?
- Wil Nieves #1 Fan
  
  Yeah, baby.
- http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcCxc5ZAX80
Esteban

How bout them Knicks! This rest of the month is a big test for them. I’ll be happy if they go 3-4 for the rest of the month.
CS Yankee

I watched the first 5 games but was at a wedding (out-of-town) for game six…I bought a 2″ portable color TV that afternoon and went down to the car to watch every 1/2 hour.

After Pettitte game 5 big win over Smoltz, I half wanted Cone to finish it in 7, but also wanted Key to get redemption (from G2).
Great series, up there with ’78.
Jimmy McNulty

I wonder if the Jets will try to replace Mark Sanchez in the next year or two.
- http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa
  
  I’m pretty sure the only way that happens is if Rex goes, and I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
  - Jimmy McNulty
    
    He’s pretty mediocre. I typically don’t like junior QBs (Luck and Bradford are exceptions) and he only had like 15 starts at USC. I mean he’s good enough to not lose the Jets anygames, but I doubt he’ll ever be good, much less elite.
    - Esteban
      
      He is a second year QB that played very well for most of this season and you don’t ever think he’ll be even good? The list of good or very good QBs that have had bad games in their 2nd year is endless.
      - Jimmy McNulty
        
        His QB rating is in the low 70s. I didn’t really think much of him out of college either, most good to great QBs who had shitty games in their rookie and second year played for shitty teams. Mark Sanchez has a very good offensive line, a good running game, a good defense, and a solid stable of WRs. I don’t see him ever approaching a McNabb in his prime, Romo, or Ryan level much less a very good level like an Aaron Rogers, let alone an elite Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers level.
        
        Esteban
        
        How about an Eli Manning level?
        
        Sayid J.
        
        Yea. Eli still makes some boneheaded plays and it took him a while to get his completion percentage up, but right now as a Giants fan I’m very happy with his play.
        
        Jimmy McNulty
        
        Yeah, I’d say regular season Eli is his ceiling. Obviously Eli’s 2007 Superbowl Heroics (and Asante Samuel’s SB Goat game) overrate him, but that’s most likely his ceiling. Even then, I’d say Eli’s had a better defense and supporting cast than Eli’s had until he got Nicks. I’d say Eli right now probably has the best receivers in the NFL.
        
        mustang
        
        If Eli is Sanchez’s ceiling then Jets fan should be very happy.
        
        Only in NY would people think a QB as failure after taking his team to within a half of the Super bowl in first season and going 9-4 in second season.
        
        Just wow
        
        Jimmy McNulty
        
        Yeah I guess Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer were elite quarterbacks. Eli really isn’t all that good. Nor is he what you should look for as a ceiling for a first round QB. That’d be like saying that Scott Baker is Phil Hughes’ ceiling.
      - JobaWockeeZ
        
        Comparing the advanced stats like complete percentage+ or Y/A+ of someone very good like Peyton in their second year and Sanchez in his seocnd year doesn’t look great.
        
        Even if you take someone not considered in the elite like Tony Romo, his seocnd eya rlooks significantly better than Sanchez. I agree it’s far too early to give up on him but he hasn’t been that great either.
        
        http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SancMa00.htm
        
        http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RomoTo00.htm
        
        Esteban
        
        I’m not saying he’ll be great, but given his lack of experience it’s way too early to say he won’t ever be even ‘good’.
        
        Jimmy McNulty
        
        Well typically the “baptism by fire” doesn’t work. The only good QB that’s had even a decent career that came out as a junior (poor wording) is Roethlisberger. While he’s been much better than “decent” I can’t think of any other good QBs that came out as juniors. While Stafford looks good if he can stay healthy and Bradford’s looking good now, and I do like Luck…there’s been plenty of QBs that came out as juniors and not a whole lot of success stories. While Sanchez is a lot more accurate than most of the 1st round junior QBs that failed, I’m still not thinking there’s much reason to be that excited about him. I’m not saying “give up on him” I’m just saying…it’s not looking too good. While I don’t think he’ll ever be good, I don’t think I ever said that it’s not possible.
        
        Jimmy McNulty
        
        I mean I’m not saying give up on him by any means…but he looks fucking awful, and right now he’s the weak link of the Jets, a team with serious SB aspirations. He’s not really the cause of any big losses for them so far…but he’s not really looking the part of a QB for an elite team. YEs, it’s football and subject to flukes so he could be good for them…but realistically a team that has everything that the Jets have going for them should look for a better QB.
        
        CP
        
        What about Brees in his second year?
        
        And just because he doesn’t stack up to Peyton or Brady doesn’t mean he’s a bad QB. Heck, there are HOF QBs that aren’t nearly as good as those two.
- mustang
  
  No.
  
  I just finish reminding my follow Giants fan that was criticizing Sanchez how God-awful Eli was his first 3 years. Sanchez is well ahead 2nd year Eli he will be fine.
  - Jimmy McNulty
    
    Eli Manning played for much worse teams in his first few years, also aside from 2009 he’s never really had a year where he stood out. Eli Manning was much better in college and much more highly regarded coming into the draft. Mark Sanchez played on Super Bowl contenders his first two seasons, the same couldn’t really be said of Eli Manning.
    - mustang
      
      “Mark Sanchez played on Super Bowl contenders his first two seasons”
      
      What team? Do you mean the Jets?
      
      The Jets weren’t Super Bowl contenders in 2009 when Sanchez took them to within one half of being in the Super Bowl. I will give you this year but the season didn’t end today.
      
      If I remember correctly Eli had his team in the playoffs in 2005 and didn’t do nearly as well.
      - Jimmy McNulty
        
        Mark Sanchez did not take the Jets from being within a game of the Superbowl their defense and running game took them to where they got. He threw twelve TDs and twenty pics. That’d be like saying that Jeff Weaver won the Cards the 2006 World Series.
  - Jimmy McNulty
    
    Furthermore Eli’s pretty overrated, if it wasn’t for Asante Samuel dropping the walk off pick and David Tyree making a miracle catch Eli’s not viewed in as positive of a light as he is now. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a competent starter and definitely should be starting in the NFL for the next four or five years, but he’s not what contending teams should be looking forward to out of their QB.
    - mustang
      
      ” David Tyree making a miracle catch Eli’s not viewed in as positive of a light as he is now.”
      
      What’s funny about that moment is that the “Eli’s pretty overrated” people never give him any credit for ripping off at least two defenders of himself before the throw or the plays that happen before it and the plays after.
      - mustang
        
        or for beating the Cowboys in Dallas
        
        mustang
        
        or for beating Green Bay.
        
        Funny how people forget.
      - Jimmy McNulty
        
        Yeah, Eli had a great game in the Super Bowl. He got lucky with the Asante Samuel dropped walk off pic, but overall played pretty well. He played well against Dallas but his team got lucky with Patrick Crayton dropping the GWTD in the end zone, and he played well against Green Bay, but lets be honest. Brett Favre beat the Packers in that game. Jeff Suppan had a great postseason, that doesn’t mean that he’s a great pitcher. Eli’s a good QB, I’d put him on like the third tier of starting quarterbacks, but he’s not a great QB by any means.
    - http://bronx-awesome.mlblogs.com/ King Yankees
      
      Tyree doesn’t get the chance to make that catch unless Eli miraculously escapes all those Patriot defenders. He did a lot just to get them to the Super Bowl against the Bucs, Cowboys, and Packers on the road, and then just taking those 18-0 Patriots to the final 60 seconds was huge. I actually don’t think he’s as overrated as many others think.
      - mustang
        
        Shhhh!
        
        Don’t you know its all about “miracle catch”.
        
        The same way every rookie QB takes there team to the AFC Champion game.
        
        Damn! NY QB they are all overrated!!!
        
        Jimmy McNulty
        
        Eli’s overrated. Sanchez just sucks.
      - Jimmy McNulty
        
        I’m sure it was Eli Manning that caused Brett Favre to throw that awful pass right to Corey Webster and Patrick Crayton to drop the GW TD in the endzone. Yeah, he had a good game in the Superbowl. Big deal. Mediocre, average, and slightly above average players have huge postseasons all the time. Great players have shitty ones too. Miracle catch, great play breaking from those defenders, and an uncharacteristic dropped interception from Asante Samuel and the Patriots go 18-1. Do you honestly think that if it was a best of three series that the Giants or Eli could have done that again? Don’t get me wrong, they had a great defense, and Justin Tuck was a motherfucking mad man all season and has been ever since. One good Super Bowl doesn’t make a quarterback a good player.
        
        Rob NY
        
        If the Colts play their starters in the second half of their game against the Jets last year the Jets don’t even make the playoffs. Eli is good to very good.
        
        Jimmy McNulty
        
        He’s been a below average QB throughout his career. He’s been good the past few years, though.
      - Hall and Nokes
        
        Only one guy calling him overrated here. It’s just that he’s posted 12 times on the subject.
        
        Jimmy McNulty
        
        Eli Mannings’ career QB rating+ is 97. People view him as a good QB, maybe even pro-bowl caliber. He’s overrated.
        
        mustang
        
        Keep say it maybe it will stick.
        
        Good luck with that.
  - JobaWockeeZ
    
    Not according to the stats.
http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

Jimmy Key? What is he, like 45? I could hit him.

(Can’t believe I’m the first one to say this. o_O )
- Jimmy McNulty
  
  I don’t think you are.
- Kit
  
  lol…JGS beat you with the youtube video.
- http://twitter.com/firstheart42 seimiya
  
  You’re not.
- http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS
  
  Ahem…
- http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama
  
  Ugh, Bexy paying attention FAIL.
http://twitter.com/firstheart42 seimiya

After Cliff Lee signs somewhere, can we have a moratorium on him?
- http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS
  
  I’m all up for a moratorium on him until he signs, unless we get legitimately new information.
  - http://twitter.com/firstheart42 seimiya
    
    If after he signs, I don’t hear one thing about him until spring training, i’m happy.
  - http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama
    
    This. Though I know the moratorium will never, ever happen.
- http://twitter.com/firstheart42 seimiya
  
  This is how I feel about cliff lee right now:
  
  say there is a food you really like. you are only allowed to eat that food. for the first couple of days, it’s pretty cool, right? but after a week, two weeks, three weeks, you’re just DREADING eating it. you know you have to, but you just. don’t. want. too. you liked this food SO MUCH.
  
  and now it’s ruined and you never want to see it again.
  
  ._.
  - Jimmy McNulty
    
    For me it’s like being an addict. I need my fucking fix.
    - http://twitter.com/firstheart42 seimiya
      
      i wish i could quit cliff lee.
      
      /wentthere
Xstar7

Does anyone know when Cliff Lee is going to sign to a team? He was supposed to make his decision by the en of this weekend and I’m really tired of waiting.
- Jimmy McNulty
  
  I’m guessing the trade deadline.
- JobaWockeeZ
  
  Tomorrow at the earliest.
- http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama
  
  Now they’re saying early this week. But they were saying Thursday, and this weekend, soooo…
- http://twitter.com/kschmidt2 Kiersten
  
  Either late tonight or early tomorrow morning would be my guess. Bug Monday morning news story.
  - http://www.thesubwayconnection.com Newbie
    
    I agree. It will probably happen one minute before I give up waiting and go to sleep.
    - Xstar7
      
      I second that notion
      - Mantle28
        
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfO-0f8cjwk
        
        Lee Lee Lee Lee…….
        
        mbonzo
        
        This was exactly what I thought it would be and I am very happy.
        
        http://www.or.ly JM
        
        TWSS
Greg G.

Jimmy Key was my favorite pitcher in the late 80s/early 90s, even when he was with Toronto, kicking the Yanks’ arse. I was so happy, when we acquired him. Seeing him as a WS hero in a Yanks uniform, in the twilight of his career, was just awesome.
- http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist
  
  All sorts of this. One of my all time faves, along with Guidry and El Duque.
http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

Aaron Rodgers ;_______;
Hughesus Christo

Used to love Jimmy Key. Key, Mike Stanley, Boggs, Donnie Baseball…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Of7bHuV0wg
- Stranded in Boston
  
  I feel old (at 35). Key was 35 and 10 his first 2 years with the yanks. More importantly, he signed here when Steinbrenner couldn’t give his money away and was part of the crew that changed the clubhouse from the Mel Hall Yankees to the 96 team. Great, underrated Yankee.
http://www.or.ly JM

I’m going to be so depressed if, after waiting and refreshing websites and stuff for weeks now, Cliff Lee doesn’t sign with the Yankees. So much time would have been wasted.
candyforstalin

character-defining question: the sopranos or the wire?
- Hughesus Christo
  
  The Wire is a superior program.
  - http://twitter.com/kschmidt2 Kiersten
    
    I’ve been told that since I work at a newspaper, I really need to watch this.
    - Jimmy McNulty
      
      Newspapers still employ people? Well that’s good…the quality of journalism these days is reminiscent of the quality of the Pirates pirates pitching staff. I’m glad there’s still competent people working in print journalism. I know I still like reading the morning paper. But yes, regardless of where you work you need to watch this. You might be one of the few people who really enjoyed S5.
      - candyforstalin
        
        she might enjoy the dickensian aspect of it.
        
        Jimmy McNulty
        
        <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
- Jimmy McNulty
  
  Well my name isn’t Christopher Moltisanti for a reason.
- mbonzo
  
  Weeds
  - candyforstalin
    
    you can only do that when the question is something like the beatles or the rolling stones and you obviously pick secret answer nº3, the velvet underground. there’s no secret answer here.
    - FIPster Doofus
      
      The secret answer is Breaking Bad :)
    - mbonzo
      
      Led Zeppelin
      - mbonzo
        
        Though I do love Nico.
        
        candyforstalin
        
        one of my favorite songs of all time, namely joan of arc, is about her.
- Esteban
  
  The Wire. Easily.
- FIPster Doofus
  
  The Sopranos
cheddar

I was on jury duty for the latter part of the ’96 Series. I can vividly remember sitting on the window sill of the waiting room listening to WFAN on my Walkman the day after the Leyritz game. People calling in were so pumped, they were almost rabid. One guy was going wild, screaming that we were going to take the next two and be champs, and I yelled “YEAH!” and pumped my fist in the air. Everyone in the waiting room, which had been as quiet as a library, stared at me. I just stuck up my thumb a la Fonzie and whispered, “Yanks, baby.”
- Xstar7
  
  good job
brian g

man, forget cliff lee for a second….you guys are insane!

jimmy key was my man for a minute back than. even when he was a blue jay i liked him a lot. i was stoked the yankees got him and even more stoked he was good for us. he was such a welcome addition compared to the andy hawkins, dave lapoint, tim leary, john candelaria junk we were used to. though i liked lee guetterman a lot….and candelaria, he wasn’t that bad. can’t say i miss the old days too much!
- Xstar7
  
  who could forget Andy Hawkins no-hitter loss?
- YanksFan77
  
  Hey, don’t knock Tim Leary. He was the Yanks ace before Key and a vital member of the ’88 Dodgers WS club (him, Hershiser and Belcher were an awesome 1-3)
  
  He just had bad luck with Yanks, having ridiculously terrible run support throughout his tenure.
mbonzo

This is the most intense I’ve ever paid attention to an offseason and it kinda just dawned on me that GMs and agents are just professional liars.
I Voted 4 Kodos

Anyone watching the Dexter finale tonight?
- candyforstalin
  
  no spoilers till midnight, please.
- http://twitter.com/kschmidt2 Kiersten
  
  Is it the series finale?
  
  My friend loaned me the DVDs weeks ago, I need to start watching.
  - Esteban
    
    Season finale.
    - http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF
      
      Yeah, it’s got at least two seasons left, if not more. It’s really all Showtime has.
      - Jimmy McNulty
        
        Isn’t Weeds still on? Besides HBO’s Post-Wire line up was pretty weak until Boardwalk Empire. I’m sure Shotime will find another interesting show.
      - candyforstalin
        
        really? in my mind, this really should have been the end of it.
        
        Pasqua
        
        The original intent was to end it, but Showtime renewed it. Now, apparently, they have to go into negotiations with the cast, etc., to keep it going.
Michael Mirabella

When I heard the news about Lee deciding by the end of the weekend, I was physced. I thought, the Giants would have won, and I would have heard the news about Cliff on Sportscenter from Buster Onlney. But no, that couldn’thave happened. Instead, the Giants game is postponed, and now Lee will most likely decided Monday.
Screw Fox.
mustang

I can’t believe I have to cheer for the Cowgirls to win.
This sucks, but Go you overrated bunch of underachieving bastards make your draft pick even worse and beat the Eagles
- Jimmy McNulty
  
  I don’t think the Cowboys have been overrated since Week 4. Everyone seems to be in agreement that Wade Phillips is a terrible coach and the team’s dead in the water.
Kit

This is such a random question, but would anyone here be artistic enough/have some experience working with clay that they would be able to give me advice on how to help my 11 year old nephew make a sarcophagus out of clay? We’ve been at this for a couple of days and all we’ve done is piss each other off.
- http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S.
  
  Like a man-sized box or a small model?
  - Kit
    
    Just a small model. It’s part of a larger, tomb-replica.
    - Kit
      
      Ignore the comma.
- Slappy White
  
  You are in luck because I once worked with clay at summer camp. Unfortunately, I dont know what a sarcophagus is
  - Kit
    
    Not helpful, Slappy.
    
    (Also, how’s it going?)
    - Slappy White
      
      Its not going so good. Im worried sick cause this Russell Martin guy wont make up his mind if he wants to be a Yankee. Im sure everybody feels the same
      - Kit
        
        Word. All his flip flopping is causing me to develop some sort of disease that involves drinking heavily. Think I should see a doctor?
        
        http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF
        
        Uh oh.
        
        Slappy White
        
        Im pretty sure youll be fine Kit. Heavy drinking NEVER hurt anyone. Dont listen to the Haters
        
        http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS
        
        Just a little cirrhosis, still good, still good…
- http://twitter.com/kschmidt2 Kiersten
  
  I made Syria out of clay in the sixth grade.
  - Slappy White
    
    The Nation of Syria ?
    - http://twitter.com/kschmidt2 Kiersten
      
      Yes.
      - Slappy White
        
        very impressive. I think I made an ashtray
        
        Kit
        
        That is impressive. How long did it take you, Kiersten?
        
        Slappy White
        
        I thought you meant my ashtray……And I smiled proudly
        
        Kit
        
        Haha…sorry to disappoint you, Slappy. You can tell me how long it took you to make the ashtray if it would make you happy.
        
        Slappy White
        
        I think about 8 minutes, and then I went swimming……..aahhhh the memories
        
        http://twitter.com/kschmidt2 Kiersten
        
        well I mean, we just made the shape of Syria and then drew a map on it. Cause it was part of our project, to make a map, so we decided to do it out of clay. I don’t remember how long it took. I do remember that my friend Jackie did her project on Malaysia and made the main city’s skyline out of Model Magic. Model Magic is awesome.
- Hughesus Christo
  
  All my thoughts on sarcophaguses are related to an inappropriate Kanye West lyric.
Betty Lizard

Sarcophagi come in different shapes–both rectangular and body shaped (like Egyptian mummy cases).

Leaving aside the shape for a moment, let’s just assume a simple rectangular one with a lid. (And it can be helpful to look at something similar–perhaps you have a bos around that has a lid?)

The lid can be flat or shaped. The lid rests on top of the edge of the bottom part of the sarcophagus (although the lid can have a lip that’s inset in from the edge and fits INSIDE the bottom of the sarcophagus).

If you’re having trouble, just make a rectangular sarcophagus with a flat lid.

For clay, you use the slab method. You can roll even slabs with a rolling pin or wine bottle (hee!). Then, cut them to size with a sharp knife, put together, and smoothe the edges to seal. (Think gingerbread houses.)

If the clay’s really giving you fits, make a mock-up first with carboard and tape. A cereal box or cracker box will do.
- Kit
  
  He needs a body shaped one, unfortunately. I tried making it in pieces and failed miserably. I think the sarcophagus actually goes inside a rectangular coffin so I have the rectangle part down. It’s the body shaped one is where the problem is. Thanks for the advice.
  - Betty Lizard
    
    Look at Egyptian mummies. Model that shape out of clay (it’s a pretty simple shape). If if needs to be hollow, cut it in half horizontally and carve out the inside.
    - Kit
      
      Thanks. It does need to be hollow, which is our problem…Thanks for the advice. I’ll try it tonight.
  - Rob NY
    
    Just a thought, but how about covering an action figure (I was thinking a power ranger) with the clay to make it look Human-Shaped?
- Greg G.
  
  When they call this an “Open Thread”, they’re not kidding. :)
Slappy White

All this checking websites, espn news, mlbn, and RAB (all caps for respect), is making me feel like im stalking Cliff Lee. Does anyone else feel like this ? I feel like a fucking loser with no self esteem.
- http://www.retire21.org Mike R. – Retire 21
  
  I’m parked in front of his house right now. He’s in the shower and seems unfazed. I wouldn’t worry if i were you.
  - Kit
    
    What kind of soap does he use?
    
    /unnecessary’d
  - Pasqua
    
    Liar. Everybody knows that if you’re on his property you are legally required to make a contract offer that is better than the last guy’s.
http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4VoVefLh3I&feature=channel

This makes me reconsider my chipotle pepper consumption.
- mbonzo
  
  Thought I would see this video.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QQXZrA1-Vg&feature=related
Doug

choate in negotiations w marlins + 3 other teams didn’t want to mention. wanna bet one’s the yanks
- http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist
  
  Nope.
- candyforstalin
  
  don’t want another loogy.
  - Doug
    
    need 2 lefties in the pen
    - http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno
      
      Don’t need, want.
      - JobaWockeeZ
        
        Yup. If Boone is still hot then they’ll be fine.
      - Doug
        
        a 2nd lefty is not better than a 5th or 6th righty out there?
        
        http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno
        
        Unless he can pitch multiple innings, not necessarily. LOOGYs pitch very few innings. A second lefty is a want, not a need.
        
        Doug
        
        okay, i want 2 lefties in the pen. personally think it’s important, esp vs. the sox lineup
    - candyforstalin
      
      not against it.
Jimmy McNulty

Score some motherfucking TDs McCoy.
Jimmy McNulty

“The Nationals are official out on Lee, reports MLB.com’s Bill Ladson.”

I think that should be officially, but I guess there’s less competition now.
- http://twitter.com/kschmidt2 Kiersten
  
  I mean, were they ever really in on Lee? Let’s be real.
  - Jimmy McNulty
    
    Maybe they ment Derrek Lee
    - Slappy White
      
      Or Tommy Lee
      - Jimmy McNulty
        
        He could autograph fans’ penises to boost ticket sales.
        
        Slappy White
        
        Thanks for that disturbing mental image
http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

When Lee gets his AL championship ring, he’s gonna get booed like nobody’s business (If he makes the trip to Texas).
- mbonzo
  
  He’ll be busy getting an early start on his WS ring.
Slappy White

That video of the Metrodome collapse is both amazing and scary as hell. What if there had been people in there ? I never realized those things were so fragile
- Jimmy McNulty
  
  It’s just in awful shape.
- MikeD
  
  They know the weight it can handle. I read yesterday there were concerns it could collapse based on the snow predictions/accumlation. There never would have been anyone in there with that snow falling.
  - Slappy White
    
    Yeah, i mean i guess they know what theyre doing, but it looks like they would make it strong enough to handle more than it could ever possibly get. It is Minnesota after all
    - CP
      
      Apparently, this was one of the top 5 or 10 largest snowfalls ever recorded in Minneapolis.
JobaWockeeZ

Someone asked me which game is the one where Kay screams out that is one fo the grestest games you will ever see and I forgot. Help please?
- ChrisR
  
  I think it was the john flaherty walk off, i’m not sure
  - JobaWockeeZ
    
    Yup thats it thanks.
  - Slappy White
    
    wasnt that the same game that Jeter dove into stands ? now its buggin me
    - JobaWockeeZ
      
      Yeah it’s the same game.
- Slappy White
  
  wasnt it the Jeter dive into the stands game?
- http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist
  
  I think it was the Beckett-Burnett duel from August 09, after the A-rod walk off. He was all over that game.
  - http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno
    
    No, that was “A LONG NIGHT’S JOURNEY INTO DAY!!!!”
    - http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS
      
      That and like, every other long game ever.
  - JobaWockeeZ
    
    Did he say it there too? Wouldn’t be surprised actually. But that game and the 13 inning game agaisn the BoSox are very similar indeed.
- Pasqua
  
  Definitely the Jeter-into-stands / Flaherty walk-off game. I’ve watched that one so many times I can practically do the play-by-play myself.
  - http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno
    
    And in no way is that depressing.
Jimmy McNulty

Upper Decki might sign with the As, I guess.
Hughesus Christo

1. Vick is taking a beating tonight. Good for NYG.

2. Philly’s offensive line is looking questionable right now. Also good for NYG.
- JobaWockeeZ
  
  Vick takes a beating everytime they blitz. Dayum. I’d feel sorry for him if he wasn’t Vick. Hopefully Fewell takes a field day on him.
James A

If the Angels and Nationals arent the mystery team, who could it be?
Im guessing there isnt one, but I’d assume the Phillies put in a call, but I really think its coming down to a Yankee 7 year offer and a lesser Rangers offer…. guess we’ll find out soon enough
- JobaWockeeZ
  
  I thought the Angels have interest?
JobaWockeeZ

DeSean Jackson is such a bitch.
http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

Fuck DeSean Jackson in his ear.
- http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook
  
  I heard ear wax works well when one needs to get around the tight spaces.
TJ

Angels could lie, but probably won’t outbid that Yanks.

After all the speculation. I think the Yanks will get Lee, but will he be worth it?

Who cares, it’s the Steinbrenner’s money anyway.

I felt better after I saw Jim Rome’s tweet on this:

“Rangers make “substantial” offer to Cliff Lee. Right. Just like the Angels did Carl Crawford. “Substantial” won’t beat Boston and New York”

So after all the research and trying on of various ideas ranging from the Rangers, Angels, etc. I conclude the Yanks will get him. Jim Rome summed up the logic. It will come down to the dollars and who can compete. The Yanks don’t lose in the bidding to the Rangers. The Yanks get what the Yanks want.
- http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS
  
  It will come down to the dollars
  
  It always does
MikeD

Earlier as I flipped past YES (which is replaying Guidry’s 18-SO game from 1978), I heard Frank Messer mention that on that day, the Yankees had signed their number-ten draft pick, Daniel Richard Ledduke. My first reaction, not recognizing the name, was “well there’s a pro career that never amounted to much.” I continued on past YES, but started thinking about Ledduke, who no doubt had one of the greatest days of his life on the same day that Ron Guidry also had one of the greatest days in his life, at least from a pro-baseball point of view, yet Guidry we know, while Ledduke disappeared into history.

I did a quick search. He pitched for five seasons in the minors, first for the Yankees and then Houston, showed some promise early on. I was more curious what happened after he left baseball, since many times prospects who never quite cut it go on to have successful careers, either related to the game on in another profession. I wish this had a happy ending. Ledduke died of a heart attack in his 40s. There’s really no point to my post, beyond an odd feeling of somehow recorgnizing one of the happiest days in Ludduke’s life and worst days in a span of a couple minutes. How many Ludduke’s have their been. If not for signing on the same day as Guidry’s game, he’d be totally forgotten.
- Gonzo
  
  Thanks for sharing. I felt the same way when I found out Oscar Azocar died this year. I remember him doing well when he first hit the scene, but he would never take a walk. You can’t walk off the island mentality.
  
  In his taste of action, Azocar OPS’d over 1.000 without a walk in 57 AB’s.
  - MikeD
    
    In our mind, we see athletes as always young, and remember them as their peak. Some have endings much too quick.
    
    Azocar could hit a ball, but he could never take a walk, and that weakness was exposed in the majors. He was another one of those players that came up during the “dark days!”
mike

i always remember watching Key during his first few starts and being amazed – after years of Wade Taylor and Hawkins and and Abbott (sic) and Perez and others – how he was able to throw strike one on a consistant basis. It was almost unbelieveable, and as a kid it really made an impression because it changed the whole tenor of the at bat, and realy brought to light how pathetic the Yanks pitching had been for the prior years.

i also seem to remember that he was on a cruise when he accepted the offer, and while it seemed the Yanks overpaid at the time it was a great move for the future
- MikeD
  
  He was on a cruise. I do remember that. He basically had the contracts faxed back and forth from the ship, as he acted as his own agent. I remember there was some questioning of the Yankees move in signing Key in the NY tabloids (then again, that’s what they always do), and some thought it was an overpay. That’s the one thing looking back on contracts. They are almost always thought of as an overapay, yet as long as the player produces, no one really cares looking back. I mean, the papers were OUTRAGED at what they paid Reggie Jackson. Small beans compared to today.
Esteban

Ok, according to WEEI (via MLBTR), Mo’s agents contacted the Red Sox and the Red Sox would have never non-tendered Papelbon and “valued him at the back-end of the bullpen”

(wanking motion)
- http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS
  
  If they did that, they wouldn’t have announced the deal until after the season began so as to avoid the luxury tax.
  - Gonzo
    
    No, Mo’s contract would have had to have been announced before the season. So would have Paps’.
Gonzo

According to Rob Bradford at WEEI, Mo initiated the contact with the Red Sox!

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2010/12/12/sources-mariano-rivera-initiated-contact-with-red-sox/
- Gonzo
  
  Too late.
- MikeD
  
  Mo knows how to close…both a game and a deal. He got what he wanted.
  
  Of course, not sure we can believe anything when it comes to these things. I’d have to hear Mo’s agent confirm.
  - Gonzo
    
    I wouldn’t be surprised in the least.
- http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H
  
  That sounds like the Sox trying to placate Papelbon and keep him happy. So after River contacts the Sox he takes an offer well below that the Sox offer to remain with the Yankees?
  
  Bull. Shit.
  - Gonzo
    
    Sox offer was 2/30, not the much more that was reported in the beginning. Yanks matched the offer, and Mo got what he wanted from the beginning a two year deal. Sounds plausable to me.
Anthony Murillo

SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
hearing from multiple sources there is indeed #mysteryteam in on cliff lee. hear its not the #phillies, always a threat
- mbonzo
  
  I think the mystery team is team edward.
- bonestock94
  
  If its not fake, I bet it’s the Orioles or Angels trying to fuck with their respective division rivals.
  - Jimmy McNulty
    
    Boston maybe.
- Hughesus Christo
  
  I think the Mystery Team is Jon Heyman, trying to get an in with a new BFF Agent, Braunecker.
bonestock94

After a 10 hr library binge I was hoping I’d come out with Lee decided. Oh well, maybe I’ll wake up to it tomorrow.
Jimmy McNulty

Well this is pretty lame. Weekend passed, and the Cliff Lee isn’t signed.
- bonestock94
  
  They need to maximize hype, I bet its announced tomorrow afternoon so they can dominate every afternoon drive sports radio show in the country.
Sean C

Just saw on the front page of ESPN’s MLB page that Olney has a piece about playoff structure and shaking up the teams in the AL East to make it more fair for the Blue Jays, Orioles and Rays. What a dick. The Rays have made the playoffs twice (WS and ALDS) in the last three years. Sure, they lost Crawford and some of their bullpen arms to free agency (can’t be blamed for going after money the Rays will never offer right now), but come on, these ARE NOT the Rays of yore. The Blue Jays and Orioles are DAMN close to making the AL East the craziest division in baseball (with the Blue Jays pretty much being there this season). I love/hate how cyclical baseball articles are. Every offseason someone gets signed to a sick amount of money/years and people are somehow still surprised and even offended (I’m still waiting for the hatred and backlash of Yankees/Lee if he signs with us).
teddy

Buster_ESPN

Heard this: Darek Braunecker, the agent for Cliff Lee, has been in touch with the Yankees today and said the process is on-going;stay tuned. 14 minutes ago via web