Open Thread: Winter Meetings Day Two


Earlier today Joe posted video of Joe Torre speaking about his time as a manager during today’s press conference with Lou Piniella, Cito Gaston, and John Schuerholz as Bobby Cox. Let’s follow that up with the media’s Q&A session, which featured questions about Ron Santo, Derek Jeter, Torre’s time in New York, and their histories in general. It’s a good 15 minutes long, but it’s worth the watch. They were all entertaining.

Once you’re done with that, use this sucker as you open thread for the evening. The only local team in action is the Nets, so … find something else to watch. Talk about whatever your heart desires here.

Categories : Offense


  1. mbonzo says:

    Predictions on the double mystery team action?(assuming the rumor is true)

  2. Squishy Jello Person says:

    Don’t be hating on mah Nets…

  3. candyforstalin says:

    pettitte, baby, c’mon.

  4. first time lawng time says:

    Wait, Joe Torre retired?

  5. Brooklyn Ed says:

    The Yankees are on the verge of making Lee a lucrative offer and are awaiting the go-ahead from Braunecker, according to Andrew Marchand of GM Brian Cashman says he’s ready to get serious.

    I like the sound of that.

  6. theyankeewarrior says:

    Someone explain to me who would be interested in trading for Michael Young and paying him 14+MM for the next three seasons of his decline?

    • The Cubs? He would go great with Soriano and all their other bad contracts.

    • vin says:

      Yeah, I absolutely love this headline from mlbtraderumors…

      “Rangers Will Listen On Michael Young”

      Oh really?! Great!

      He’s still a nice hitter, but he’s already overpaid now, as a 34 year old. That’s an albatross contract for a team like the Rangers.

      • bexarama says:

        I love how it was tagged #yankees on Twitter.

      • MikeD says:

        He’s about to become real expensive for his production, drawing $16 million each year for the next three seasons. His numbers also dipped last year from the prior, which could just be noise in the machine, or could be the first sign of decline.

        Worse, he’ll have full 10/5 veto rights in May of next year, so the Rangers have an incentive to move him now if they want to shed the nearly $50 million they’re going to owe him.

        I’d be major league concerned if I was on the receiving end of a Michael Young trade. His home/road splits suggest his hitting last year and throughout his career is a product of his home park. They’re pretty extreme.

        If I’m the Rangers, I’d trade him for a mid-level prospect, and even throw some money in just to get him off the books, and then sign Beltre, who’d be a significant upgrade at third, both defensively and offensively, and he’d cost about the same. Maybe that’s exactly what they’re thinking.

        • vin says:

          I don’t disagree with you. I’d love to see them hang onto him for sentimental reasons – being the “team leader” and all – but Jon Daniels is too smart for that. If he can find any takers, he’ll move Young.

      • Kiersten says:

        Oh Michael’s not so young anymore, huh?

        /bad jokes’d

  7. first time lawng time says:

    If Yanks don’t get Lee and Pettitte retires, they’re in big trouble in the pitching department. I think anyway.

  8. theyankeewarrior says:

    Mike, love your tweet about how Lee’s agent “isn’t taking offers yet” but “has two 7-year offers in hand”

    The hot stove is starting to boil!

  9. RobC says:

    If Andy retires can Wood still start?
    of course the Yankees have another BP guy who has been a starter but we will not go there

    • radnom says:

      I think the Yankees would start Joba before they started Wood (and they are pretty unlikely to start Joba, so what does that tell you about Wood’s odds?).

    • vin says:

      No, and I wish.

      Wood has earned himself quite a bit of coin as a closer… much better than being lumped in the same category as CMW, Chris Young, Brandon Webb, Rich Harden, Ben Sheets, and Mark Prior. He’d be out of his mind to try to go back to the rotation.

    • bexarama says:

      If you want him to fall to itty-bitty pieces by late-ish May, sure!

  10. ultimate913 says:

    The Yankees are on the verge of making Lee a lucrative offer and are awaiting the go-ahead from Braunecker, according to Andrew Marchand of GM Brian Cashman says he’s ready to get serious.

    YESSSSSS!!! Let’s get this going already!

  11. bexarama says:

    The club has two factors working in their favor as Pettitte makes his choice: the first is that he has an excellent relationship with manager Joe Girardi and is otherwise completely comfortable in the Yankees’ clubhouse.

    Indeed, the person who warned the team that Pettitte might retire said, according to the official, “in terms of pitching and on the field stuff, Andy has never been happier.”

    The second factor that’s keeping the Yankees from losing hope is that Pettitte’s dance with retirement is nothing new. He always returns home after the season beat up, mentally and physically, telling family and friends he’s reached his limit.

    That initial phase usually lasts about a month, or as least through the Thanksgiving holiday. Then, as November gives way to December, Pettitte’s competitive gene starts to re-awaken — he finds himself missing not just the Yankees but the game in general.

    It’s right about now that Pettitte historically decides to give his career one more year. The Bombers still believe he’ll do likewise very shortly…

    C’mon, baby. (this from Bob Klap.)

    • first time lawng time says:

      Pettitte’s coming back. He just likes to toy with your emotions. Keep you on the edge of your seat. Play with you a bit.

    • Mike HC says:

      For Pettitte’s sake, it is obviously time to retire and move on in life. As a Yankee fan, I hope he keeps coming back.

      • Chris says:

        For Pettitte’s sake, it is obviously time to retire and move on in life.

        Why? Sure he wants to spend time with his family, but the same can be said of everyone.

        • Shaun says:

          True but not every player has high school aged kids. When they go off to college, he won’t have that chance to be with them.

          • Chris says:

            He’s making enough that they could travel along with Pettitte. The real issue would be younger kids. By the time they’re in high school, they’d probably love being able to hang out with the team.

            And even if he does have incentive to spend more time with his family, it doesn’t make that an ‘obvious’ choice. Plenty of guys play all through their kids growing up.

          • Steve H says:

            When they go off to college, he won’t have that chance to be with them.

            That’s the same of any family. And Pettitte gets to spend a ton of time with them in the winter. And while most people retire in their 60′s, Pettitte will retire in his late 30′s or early 40′s, leaving him more time.

        • Mike HC says:

          I wrote that thinking more along the lines of if you are so torn about retirement year after year, it is probably time to give it up. If the season is so grueling that you constantly want to retire after the year, it is time.

    • MikeD says:

      Maybe it’ll take one more holiday. Once he’s past Christmas and New Year’s and all the happy family time that comes with those, and then the empty days of January shows up, he’ll start thinking about “what’s next?” Throw in the signing of Cliff Lee, increasing the chances for another visit to the World Series, and a few calls from the other members of the Core Four to give it one last try with that group, and I say he’s returning.

      Just trying to stack the odds for you, Bex!

  12. Sick Nwisher says:

    GM Brian Cashman says he’s ready to get serious.

    Shit is about to start popping!!!

  13. Squishy Jello Person says:

    So since the current TV I have is quite possibly smaller than my laptop screen, where should I go buy a properly sized, properly HD tv?

    • vin says:


      I did my research, found the model I wanted, and waited for a dip in the price. Didn’t have to pay shipping or sales tax (not sure about where you are though). Between stalking the price, and not paying tax (or shipping for that matter), I probably saved about $500. The delivery guy even set everything up.

    • radnom says:

      If you have a Costco membership use it for big purchases like that.

      If you are looking for a good deal, (might not be exact, google for it) compiles a list of the best values for all sorts of electronics. If you are patient and a little flexible, a nice steal on the kind of TV your looking for will be posted there in no time.

      • vin says:

        A similar site is – pretty good for finding bargains (especially on crap you don’t really need, but want to buy anyway because its a good price).

        • radnom says:

          Yes, I highly second the support for (its even better than BradsDeals) but its also a bit more difficult to navigate and the deals go much quicker. Give it a try, I mentioned the other one only because its more user friendly.

  14. Bryan L says:

    So Jets fans, what’s your excuse?

  15. Avi says:

    The Yanks have one of the best and deepest farm systems in the game. If Greinke is traded for similar package to Adrian Gonzalez’s and the Yankees don’t get him, I’m gonna flip out.

    • Steve H says:

      Without getting too deep into it, the package for Gonzalez was not weak.

      • Jimmy McNulty says:

        The guy on the fangraphs podcast yesterday said that Anthony Rizzo has been compared to Adrian Gonzalez and Casey Kelly is the pitching version of Hanley Ramirez.

        Srsly though, it was weak. I can’t imagine a singe Red Sox fan that wouldn’t gladly do that package. I can accept that Kelly is better than his stats, but Rizzo? A 1B with mediocre walk and contract rates, good but not great power, and a Slade Heathcott type? Why aren’t the talent evaluators looking at Kelly and Rizzo’s obvious flaws that are slapping you right in the face?

        • Steve H says:

          Totally underestimating Rizzo. It was a good trade for the Sox obviously, but the Padres likely weren’t going to do better and had to move him or get 2 picks. Rizzo just slugged .481 in AA at 20. In the same park, at 20 Gonzalez slugged .437. Rizzo has plenty of power. And Kelly isn’t the greatest thing since sliced bread, but is a fine young prospect.

          • Jimmy McNulty says:


            Rizzo’s good…but he doesn’t have a whole lot of power projection the same way Adrian did as a prospect. Kelly’s a good prospect, but I don’t buy Rizzo as a top 50 prospect nor do I like him better than Montero, Sanchez, Banuelos, Brackman, Betances, and maybe not even Romine.

            • Steve H says:

              I read that and it said Rizzo could develop into a Mo Vaughn type. That’s plenty of power.

              • Jimmy McNulty says:

                Yeah, good power…not great power. I don’t recall ever suggesting that Rizzo sucked or was a Fransico Cervelli bat.

                • Steve H says:

                  Mo Vaughn = Great power

                  • Avi says:

                    Anyone who compares Rizzo’s power to Mo Vaughn’s is clueless and you guys shouldn’t waste your time reading them.

                  • Jimmy McNulty says:

                    There is a chance he can develop into something like Mo Vaughn if he fully reaches his peak, but he needs to solve lefties and could also end up as more of a platoon bat.

                    “If he fully reaches his peak” which means if everything goes right, so yeah he could fully tap into every ounce of strength and raw power AND use them in a game. Shelly Duncan can mash with the best of them in BP, but that doesn’t mean he has “great power potential” (note Anthony Rizzo RIGHT NOW is a better ML player than Shelly Duncan, not trying to compare the two).

                    If Hughes fully reaches his peak he’s Mike Mussina, that doesn’t mean that he has a plus plus curve already. Don’t get me wrong, I like Anthony Rizzo plenty, but his mediocre contact and walk rates, especially for a first basemen, worry me.

            • Avi says:

              Wow. I totally agree with those rankings Jimmy. And I very confident that all those guys will be ranked ahead of Rizzo. Romine will likely come in behind him but not by much. I’d rather have Romine though. If there’s two guys who’s offensive potential is similar, give me the catcher over the first baseman every day of the week.
              Fuentes is Heathcott without the power.
              You know a lot if not most GM’s would rather have two first round picks than Fuentes and Rizzo.

              • JGS says:

                Fuentes is Heathcott without the power.

                Both were 19 years old in the Sally League this year.

                Heathcott slugged .352 with two homers.
                Fuentes slugged .377 with five homers.

                • Jimmy McNulty says:

                  Heathcott DOES have a better power projection than Fuentes. IIRC Heathcott hit for a far lower average than Fuentes did too, FWIW.

                  • JobaWockeeZ says:

                    Heathcott has a .258 average where Fuentes has a .277

                    ISoP is the same

                    • Avi says:

                      Fuentes is a light hitting slap hitter with a lot of speed. Think Endy Chavez. NO ONE expects him to hit for ANY power EVER. Heathcott has real power. He’s still a teenager, it hasn’t manifested yet.

                  • JGS says:

                    No, Fuentes hit .270, Heathcott .258. Slade showed better plate discipline though, with a decently higher OBP leading to an OPS seven points higher than Fuentes’. Fuentes also stole 42 bases to Heathcott’s 15. I’d say they had pretty similar seasons in terms of valu.e

                    My point was that Slade might project to have more power than Fuentes, but that’s all it is at this point: a projection. Saying “he’s Heathcott without the power” is a tad premature, as Heathcott has yet to show any.

                    FWIW, Mike Stanton slugged .611 as an 18 year old in the Sally League. That’s power.

      • Avi says:

        Not saying the Gonzalez package was strong or weak. Just that if that’s all it takes to get Greinke the Yanks better get him. Mike compared the Gonzalez package (and I agree with this) to Banuelos, Heathcott and “a better version of Laird”.
        If a team like Toronto is crazy enough to trade Travis Snyder and Kyle Drabek there’s nothing you can do. But if it’s just prospects the Yanks HAVE TO get it done. The reason you have a strong farm system (one of them anyway) is to be able to pounce on a guy like Greinke when he becomes available.

      • radnom says:

        It also wasn’t one that any rational Red Sox fan was upset to lose in return for a top player (which Greinke also is).

        Not to mention the Yankees have a better system than the Red Sox.

        That being said I imagine the asking price for Greinke would be higher, but who knows?

        • Steve H says:

          That being said I imagine the asking price for Greinke would be higher

          Definitely. He’s cheaper and every team in baseball could use Greinke, several teams are set at 1B so the demand on Greinke will be much higher.

          • candyforstalin says:

            he’s not cheaper, though he has substantially more value.

          • radnom says:

            but who knows?

            That was important too. hint: Not us.

            • Steve H says:

              I didn’t intentionally leave that out, but it’s a pretty safe bet it would cost more to get Greinke than Gonzalez. The Royals have an extra year to make their trade and the receiving team, if traded now, would get that extra year.

              • radnom says:

                I agree with everything you said but the OP’s premise was “if the package was similar”.

                Yeah, its probably not. But we don’t know that for sure, and its no reason not to speculate.

              • Avi says:

                But Greinke had a so-so year and A-gon is an elite player. I don’t think it’s a question who the better player is right now.
                You bring up the point that Greinke is under contract for two years. But you also have to take into account that Gonzalez is under contact for only $6.2M for 2011, $7.3M LESS than Greinke.

                • Steve H says:

                  Greinke is also an elite player who would instantly fit on 29 other teams in baseball and is under control for 2 years. Gonzalez, even if you want to argue is better then Greinke, does not carry the same trade value (likely). Same with Justin Upton. Gonzalez, as of now, is obviously a better player than Upton, but Upton is more valuable in trade.

                  • Avi says:

                    You’re not an elite player if you had the kinda year Greike did in 2010. 2009 was elite, 2010 was just ok.
                    I disagree on Upton and Greinke. But again we’ll see what he’s traded for. My point is if it’s just a package of one strong prospect and two other OK prospects, or even slightly more, it better be the Yanks.

                    • Steve H says:

                      So an elite player is no longer elite if they have a season that isn’t elite?

                    • Jimmy McNulty says:

                      To be fair to Avi, Greinke is coming of a year where he had an ERA+ of 100. I think he’ll fetch more than what Gonzalez did, but not by a whole whole lot. I still stand by my offer if they sign Lee: Hughes, Romine, Heathcott, and Nova (or a position player like Adams, CoJo, or a pitcher like Warren or Noesi).

    • Jose the Satirist says:

      One of the best parts of the Gonzalez trade is it may reduce the prevalence of the Casey Kelly meme. Talk about a meme beaten to death.

      • radnom says:

        Talk about a meme beaten to death.

        You mean pretty much any meme on here?

        I doubt there will be able to be any post mentioning prospects that won’t have a few regurgitated Casey Kelly jokes tossed in (from the same people who pitch a fit when someone else posts off topic).

        • bexarama says:

          Pretty much all memes are beaten to death. That’s why they’re memes.

          • radnom says:

            True, but this place is especially bad when it comes to that.

            I honestly don’t even read the comments much anymore during the season its so bad. I can’t stay away from hot stove discussion, but recently I saw a thread about Hughes with 40+ comments and checked it out….more than HALF the comments are about what some troll would say if he hadn’t been banned. Why even ban him if thats all you’re going to talk about anyway? /rant

            • radnom says:

              P.S. Everyone knows you like Andy Pettitte, its not funny anymore. Thanks.

            • JobaWockeeZ says:

              Heh amen.

            • bexarama says:

              It’s actually worse during the offseason, I think, as there’s less baseball to discuss so comment threads dissolve into silliness. RAB has really good content even without the comment sections.

              • radnom says:

                RAB has really good content even without the comment sections.

                Of course, I never said I stopped reading during the season. Just the comments.

                And please don’t take this as a personal offense (anyone, seriously – bex my comment above was meant to come across as quite lighthearted, if it didnt.).
                If you are one of the people who enjoys constantly obsessing over what the trolls/MSM are saying, thats cool, whatever works for you. Its just a little disappointing because there are some great people here, who I’ve enjoyed talking baseball with over the years but everyday the echo chamber gets louder and louder.

                • bexarama says:

                  TBH that Pettitte comment did not come off as a joke at all, but if you say it was supposed to be lighthearted I do believe you. Lord knows I say all kinds of stuff on the internet that comes off as way bitchier/ruder than I intend. :/

                  If you are one of the people who enjoys constantly obsessing over what the trolls/MSM are saying, thats cool, whatever works for you

                  Heh, that’s me. I wouldn’t say obsessing, just it’s interesting to see and complain about. Quite frankly I think a lot of the memes are really funny, but hey, that’s me. I get how they could be annoying.

            • Chris says:

              The only threads that are bad during the season are the game threads. Completely unbearable.

      • MikeD says:

        Aren’t all meme’s, here there and every where, beaten to death by the very nature of being a meme?

  16. first time lawng time says:

    Guy from Yankee U (I forget your name sorry),
    I came across this today in google images and I noticed it was from your site. I just wanted to say I thought it hightly amusing and I enjoyed it. Well done.

  17. Jimmy McNulty says:

    The Mets sign Paulino and Carassco…there’s a new sheriff in town!

    • bexarama says:

      I love that there was a Beltran/Dice-K rumor earlier (it got shot down, unfortunately). HILARITY.

      • Jimmy McNulty says:

        I don’t doubt that the Red Sox are interested in Beltran…but for Dice-K!??!?!?! C’mon.

        • radnom says:

          A move to the NL would actually probably be a good thing for Dice-K. I could see him putting up another good season there (if healthy) since most of those guys haven’t seen him much.

          A bad contract swap with an NL team kind of makes sense, too bad Beltran does not fall under that category really.

  18. MikeD says:

    Where does Torre live? I thought he’d still be in L.A., but then I read something recently where his kids wanted to come back to NY. Wondering if the relations between Torre and the Yankees have improved enough where he’ll show up on YES, since I read he’s looking at broadcast opportunities.

  19. SuBDivisions says:

    Cashman is ready to pull the trigger on a Probably 6/160MM deal on Lee.. Will ti be enough 2 teams now reporting 7 year offers…

    • Chris says:

      7/$161M would be $23M per year, and I’m not sure there’s going to be an offer at that AAV. Just because a team offers 7 guaranteed years doesn’t mean it’s a better deal than a 6 year deal – particularly if the Yankees would be willing to go up to 6/$160.

    • Xstar7 says:

      What other teams? And doubt they’re offering more $$$.

  20. Chris says:

    I just read the Wallace Matthews piece on ESPN, and say this quote about Mantle after 1960 season from the Yankees GM:

    “Our entire organization has tried to discover why Mantle hasn’t capitalized on his enormous potential, and we obviously haven’t found the answer,” Weiss said. “We’ve done everything possible to help him.”

    At the time, Mantle had a 171 OPS+, led the league in HR and OPS 4 times, won the triple crown in 1956, all while playing center field.

    • Xstar7 says:

      His potential would have been higher it weren’t for that play in the 1951 world series.

    • Squishy Jello Person says:

      Mantle tore his ACL his rookie season, according to Jane Leavy’s biography, and surgery to repair it wasn’t a feasible option.

      That *might* have had something to do with it.


      • Chris says:

        He had a 171 OPS+ at the time. That’s the 6th best ever. And he was playing CF.

        How can that possibly not be capitalizing on his potential?

        • vin says:

          The Yankees always have high expectations.

          The question is, what was greater… Mickey’s legendary ability, or what he did on the field.

          It’s hard to say. All the people who saw him play are looking through rose-colored glasses, while the rest of us can really appreciate what he actually ended up doing.

          He’s a bit like Babe Ruth. I’m sure there are plenty of stories praising his raw abilities – yet its hard to fathom him putting up better numbers than he did. Imagine if he had worked out with the same intensity that modern athletes do?

          • Xstar7 says:

            That’s the same speculation you could make with Ken Griffey Jr. Neither him nor Mickey Mantle really took good care of themselves. If they had their respective careers would have looked even better than they already do.

        • Kiersten says:

          “On two legs, Mickey Mantle would have been the greatest ballplayer who ever lived.”
          -Nellie Fox

    • Monteroisdinero says:

      No doubt referring to his off the field antics with Whitey and Billy. Mantle’s #’s would have been so much better if he hadn’t played most of his career injured and/or hungover. No steroids needed.

    • vin says:

      He was Albert Pujols, playing CF, with wheels (despite being banged-up).

      If you take Griffey’s best seasons, and factor it out over 10-12 years – then you get Mantle… but with more walks and a higher OBP.

      That’s one guy I wish I could’ve seen.

    • Mantle was a pimp. His power went away in 68, but he still put up a .237/.385/.398 line, or a 144 (!!) OPS+.

  21. Chris says:

    From Heyman:

    dave eiland has been hired as consultant by #rays. former yankee pitching coach comes armed with yankee expertise.

  22. Sal says:

    The Yankees are going to have to to spend 170 million to get Lee. I have a gut feeling this going to start to get crazy.

  23. candyforstalin says:

    carrasco gets 2/2,5m. good deal for alderson.

  24. vin says:

    Putz going to the DBacks knocks one possible destination off Kerry Wood’s list.

  25. bexarama says:

    His cutter is not a human pitch, even he says he does not know why it moves like it does, says “God does it.” I believe him.

    - SOSH on Mo
    (“God does it” is a circular discussion.)

  26. bonestock94 says:

    Jays with Greinke, hmmm, then they’re legit.

  27. Andrew says:

    you guys gotta start showing St. John’s some love, they are the only local college team NY really has. Yeah theres Rutgers but who really cares?

    • Mike HC says:

      I’m a big St. John’s fan, but it has been ugly for a while now. I guess there is some hope with Lavin now and our great recruiting class next year.

  28. candyforstalin says:

    at least let’s sign diaz.

  29. candyforstalin says:

    stuff-wise, what’s phelps like?

  30. Jimmy McNulty says:

    My idiot friend Matt is trying to suggest that you can get endorsements just as easily playing for the Rangers as you can for the Yankees. Furthermore, he’s acting like Pettitte’s Dove for Men and Rivera’s Canali suits endorsements aren’t big endorsements. His logic, he’s never heard of them so they must be small potatoes. He wants to be a History teacher, and he frequently wears dry fit shirts, gym shorts, and sweat pants (yet plays Xbox all day), so it’s no surprise that he doesn’t know anything about Italian suits. He’ll never make more than 60K a year in his life (not to be a dick or anything) so he has no usage for knowledge of six thousand dollar suits.


    What he’s failing to realize is that more people in the DFW area would recognize David Buehler than Ian Kinsler and NY only area endorsements also pay big bucks. Not really related to anything just pissed at how stupid he is.

  31. FIPster Doofus says:

    Joel Sherman says there is mutual interest between the Yankees and Mark Prior. Intriguing.

  32. Jimmy McNulty says:

    Rox are interested in Michael Young. WTF.

  33. bonestock94 says:

    Luke Scott goes of the deep end in this article, kinda funny.

  34. Jimmy McNulty says:

    Marlins considering dealing Nolasco and Nunez.

    Old friend Wil Nieves about to be a Brewer.

  35. Greg Davenport says:

    With Cashman repelling down buildings in stamford ct the stage is set for moves that have been forced by division hard liners. They have to make these moves. Lee for 6 or 7,Greinke because great young arms win championships,Buck as the next yankee catcher, montero will have been used to get Zack. Buck is solid defense and a good stick with no up front salary demands. Carl Crawford in left, he’s young, can hit steal and create rallies. The next move will be an arm that the repelling GM will pull out of a hat. It will be a surprise to all. These are moves that are forced by competition. Anything less than this could put you 10 games behind. Boston and Detroit have already made competitive moves and continue to look. If cashman falls asleep the curse of Horace Clark et al will reappear. It was painful to watch derek forced to accept the post traumatic effect of a-rods contract from heaven. Make no mistake this is not a fight for lee but rather a war for the kingdom of baseball

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