Jul
29

Mailbag: Hughes, Parraz, Kershaw, Banuelos

By

I cut back on the trade deadline stuff this morning, we’ve spent enough time discussing it already this week so I tried to mix things up a bit. Remember to use the Submit A Tip box in the sidebar if you want to send in your questions.

(AP Photo/David Goldman)

Anthony asks: Would you hesitate to trade Phil Hughes? He’s been on the Yankees since 2007 and hasn’t really been the starting pitcher that was hyped to be the next Roger Clemens.

Wasn’t it Jorge Posada that called him the next Clemens? Maybe it was Jason Giambi. Whoever it was, it wasn’t me. Just kinda reaffirms my stance that players generally have no clue what the hell they’re talking about, they’re terrible when it comes to analysis.

Anyway, no I wouldn’t hesitate trade Hughes but I wouldn’t just give him away. He’s struggling and just doesn’t look right physically, but I wouldn’t cut bait entirely out of frustration. That’s how you wind up with a bunch of middle relievers and two months of Edwin Jackson. The problem is that Hughes’ value is down, way down, so you’d be selling low on him. He’s not cheap ($2.7M salary this year) and he’s only under team control for two more years, so all that stuff that made him so desirable two or three years ago doesn’t really apply anymore. I’d trade anyone, but I’m generally opposed to selling low on young players.

Matt asks: What’s the deal with Jordan Parraz? Is he a legitimate prospect? He seems to be having a good year. What puts him behind Dickerson and Golson?

Parraz is a legitimate prospect, though he’s not any kind of future star. He’s the kind of guy you’ll find just outside a typical top 30 list. When Baseball America ranked him as the Royals’ 19th best prospect before last season, they said he was a “gap-to-gap hitter with below-average usable power, even though he shows above-average power in batting practice.” They lauded his defense, citing his 70 arm and ability to play center fielder. He’s having a very nice year with Triple-A Scranton, a .367 wOBA with 8.6% walks and a .146 ISO, showing that he can more than hold his own against upper level pitching.

Chris Dickerson and Greg Golson are ahead of him on the depth chart right now only because they’re on the 40-man roster. Both of those guys (as well as Justin Maxwell) will be out-of-options next year and likely gone, so I figure Parraz will step in as the up-and-down outfielder. He’s fringy, but he’s on par with Dan Brewer and a useful piece in moderation.

Anonymous asks: How legit of a prospect is Mark Montgomery, the “K” machine?

The Yankees’ 11th round pick this year, Montgomery is a righty reliever from Longwood University in Virginia. He struck out 48 in 30.1 IP for the Lancers this spring, and so far as a pro he has 28 strikeouts in 14.1 IP. Although he’s just 5-foot-11 and 205 lbs., Montgomery misses bats with two power pitches: a 91-92 mph fastball that has touched 94 in the past, and a low-to-mid-80′s slider that’s allergic to bats. That’s the pitch he uses to rack up all those whiffs.

The best case scenario, I mean if you really squint your eyes and dream, Montgomery does have some David Robertson in him as a short power reliever, though his slider is unlikely to be as effective against lefties as Robertson’s curve. Relievers with power stuff that have a history of missing bats are prospects, for sure, but we’re not going to know much about him until he gets to Double-A. Single-A hitters have no chance against a college reliever with that kind of stuff.

Louis asks: Given the fact that Clayton Kershaw is younger than Felix Hernandez and a lefty, would he theoretically be worth more in a trade? His peripherals this year are insane and even in the past have been pretty comparable to King Felix.

(Photo Credit: Flickr user SD Dirk via Creative Commons license)

Yeah, I think Kershaw has more trade value than Felix right now. He’s considerably cheaper at the moment since he has yet to hit his arbitration-eligible years, and he’s under team control through 2014 compared to 2015 for Hernandez. The lower cost (Felix gets $18M+ starting next year) pretty much offsets the one fewer year of team control.

A case can be made that Kershaw is the best pitcher in baseball right now, especially since he’s chopped his walk rate from 4.79 BB/9 in 2009 to just 2.36 this year. He’s just 23 years old and strikes out more than ten men per nine innings with two elite pitches (mid-90′s fastball and power curve) and two other very good offerings (slider and changeup). If I’m building my rotation from scratch right now, he’d be the guy I’d build it around. And no, the Dodgers aren’t going to trade him. Even with their uncertain ownership and financial situation, Kershaw is still so cheap that’ll be able to afford him for at least another year or two.

Reggie asks: Jon Heyman played mouth piece for Boras again Tuesday morning by reporting that Carlos Pena will almost assuredly get traded.  Do you think the NYY are a fit for a clear salary dump? Posada hasn’t hit for power or contact, and though Pena has contact issues, he does hit for power.  Pena could hit 10-12 homers down the stretch. But that Montero guy…

Pena had a brutal start to the season, missed some time with a hand injury, and since May 3rd he’s hit .236/.346/.516 with 20 homers. That’s pretty much the guy we’ve seen over the last few years, a dead pull hitter that will draw a lot walks and hit the ball out of the park while failing to hit for average. He’s legitimately a platoon guy, with a .371 wOBA against righties this year but just .247 against lefties. That split is pretty typical of his entire career.

I’m certain the Cubs would love to unload him and whatever money is left on his $10M salary, and he’s definitely an upgrade over Jorge Posada. I highly doubt anything will happen though, and as you alluded too, the Yankees do have a big bat waiting in Triple-A if they want a change at DH. Jesus Montero isn’t a lefty like Pena, but he might as well be with the way he drives the ball to right field. The Yankees need to focus on pitching, the offense will score plenty of runs.

Robbie asks: With Manny Banuelos struggling with his command this year, is it reasonable to assume that he won’t be in the starting rotation in 2012? I remember reading a while back that you had hoped him to come into the ML rotation next year.

Assuming he finishes out the year the way he’s been pitching all season, I still think we’ll see him at some point in 2012. Without having the slightest idea of what the starting rotation will look like eight months from now, I assume Banuelos (and Dellin Betances) will get long looks in Spring Training like Chien-Ming Wang did in 2005. They’ll probably head to Triple-A to start the year, but like Wang back then, they’ll be first in line for a call-up whenever a starter is needed. That’s assuming neither one is traded between now and then.

Banuelos hasn’t had a great year but his situation is like Montero’s, he’s basically a victim of his own talent. He was so good last year and the year before that when he didn’t perform to that level this year, it was considered a disappointment. Remember, Banuelos is still just 20 years old, and he’s striking out a batter an inning in Double-A. If he had been born in the U.S. and had gone to college, he’d be a sophomore and draft-eligible next summer. He’s way ahead of the development curve, and the “down” year doesn’t change much as far as expectations going forward. Maybe it just slows the fast track slightly, but that’s it.

Categories : Mailbag

117 Comments»

  1. ADam says:

    “.236/.346/.516 with 20 homers”

    What is Tex’s line since May 3 ?

  2. YankeesJunkie says:

    It is pretty incredible to have seen what Manny Banuelos has done as a prospect since becoming a Yankee. While Montero’s bat was always huge since he hit the GCL, Banuelos in 2008-2009 was never projected to be more than back end starter. Now he is right behind Matt Moore as one of the elite arms in all of baseball at the age of 20 and is set to set a career high in innings this year. If everything goes well for relatively well for Manny would be nice to see him as a power reliever at the end of the 2012 season before entering the rotation full time in 2013, when he will be 22.

    • The Big City of Dreams says:

      Manny would be nice to see him as a power reliever at the end of the 2012 season

      ————————

      please no anything but that

    • nycsportzfan says:

      No way.. He was Ranked 14th on the Yankee Prospect List of BASEBALL AMERICA handbook back in 2009, and that was WITH nothing more then 12Games and 3starts in the GCL under his belt… Oh ya, and in his writeup, theres a Quote from MARK NEWMAN that says “looks like whitey ford out there”, and the BA writer then says “banuelos is on the fast track”…

      Your post reminds me of alot of repsonses i would get when raving about Manny back then… And its the same thing nowadays with guys like Brett Marshall, Jose Ramirez, Yeicok Calderon, and Mason Williams.. Those guys are gonna be massive prospects in a couple yrs and it’ll be like MIKE and everyone never doubted it…lol

  3. RIP Irabu says:

    if hughes isnt included in the ubaldo trade i will cry

    • Jorge says:

      As Mike said, it’d be the height of stupidity to sell low on Phil Hughes right now.

      • ChrisS says:

        Meh … it hasn’t stopped Cashman in the past.

        • Jorge says:

          where?

          • Mike Axisa says:

            Tabata is probably the most obvious case. Maybe McAllister, but he was never going to be all that great anyway. Never missed bats, didn’t have great GB rates.

            • Rick in Boston says:

              Weren’t there other issues with Tabata other than performance? He was older than they thought, married a head case, and had major attitude issues.

              • Mike Axisa says:

                There were rumors that he was older, nothing ever confirmed as far as I know. He did have some run-ins with the Double-A staff, and on two occasions he left the park in the middle of the game out of frustration.

                • jsbrendog says:

                  typical needs a change of scenery guy. i wouldnt call that your typical sell low. plus, what has he done? nothing.

                  • Rick in Boston says:

                    I think he had a hot week or so, followed by the typical “OMG Cashman is teh suxor” then nothing after he returned to being himself.

                    There’s still time for him to get better, but I’d call it “getting rid of a headache for everyone’s sake”.

                • Crime Dog says:

                  Oh well those are just some minor problems… Wait what? I didnt recall his problems being that bad, wow

                  • jsbrendog says:

                    what’s a temper tantrum between friends…oh what? we’re nt friends? 2 temper tantrums? sub par results? yeah eff that guy

              • ChrisS says:

                Any Latin player is always rumored to be older. He was borderline untouchable in 2007 as an 18 yo in A+. Three months into 2008, after Tabata struggled as a 19 year old in AA (with a looney wife) he was shipped out for a journeyman OFer having a career half-season and LH reliever who’s managed a 6.02 ERA in ~50 IP for the Yankees over three years.

                Personally, I’d cut Hughes loose in a heartbeat if it meant getting Jimenez without losing a B. But also there’s no reason to dump him for cheap because he’s struggling.

                • Ted Nelson says:

                  Eh… pretty sure it’s not a rumor and Tabata is proven to be older than he claimed.

                  You’re underselling Nady. He was a good hitter who had injury problems. Career wOBA of almost .340.

                  Tabata is one example, and though he’s still young he’s not exactly making the Yankees regret trading him. He’s not much better than a healthy Nady at this point. Would be a 4th OF on the Yankees or in AAA.

            • Ted Nelson says:

              Hard to say if it’s selling low depending on what you’re getting… For example, they traded Melancon when he was struggling, but I guess they got what they wanted for him in Berkman. Same goes for IPK, getting Granderson… Newman has said he and Cashman were big IPK fans but say that as a valuable trade.

              Last season it was a bit of a trend with McAllister, Melancon, and offering Montero… but I can’t really remember too many examples prior.

      • RIP Irabu says:

        a fly ball pitcher with 2 pitches that doesnt get strikeouts has no future here

    • Cris Pengiuci says:

      The Rockies have no need for him. His salary will hurt the trade more than his potential will help them.

    • YankeeFan says:

      I would definitely cry too

  4. Bum Rush says:

    The real question is: When do they move Hughes to the pen? Isn’t irresponsible to keep running him out there at this point?

    The tangent: Where are the people who insisted a mere three weeks ago it was too soon to pull the plug?

    • Ted Nelson says:

      He’s coming off an injury and 3 of his last 4 starts Hughes has allows 2 ERs. He’s not an ideal ace-like SP… but I see no way in which it’s irresponsible.

      Pull the plug on what?

    • Mike Axisa says:

      It’s been four starts. One good, one bad, two in the middle.

      • Mike Axisa says:

        Also, Ivan Nova had an ERA near six after four starts. They didn’t pull the plug on him, and rightfully so.

        • Bum Rush says:

          Hughes has had thrown 31 innings this year across 7 starts. Batters have hit .348/.412/.533 against him with 13 BB against 16 Ks.

          His stuff is clearly diminished as a starter. He gets hurt. This is idiocy at this point.

          Nova, by contrast, was getting better and better each time out. Look at his monthly splits.

          • CP says:

            Hughes was clearly injured in the first 3 of those starts, so why should they matter at all?

          • Ted Nelson says:

            If his stuff is diminished–and it has been–why is he going to be better in the bullpen? People point to several years ago when he was healthy and not throwing the ball from his ear (which he is doing at this point) as proof he’d be a good reliever. Now that… that is “idiocy.”

            Nova also had two 4 ER outings in his last four starts… so acting like he was on fire when they demoted him is “idiocy.”

            Clearly you’re a genius who knows more about baseball than the Yankees’ brain trust, though… makes sense.

      • Bum Rush says:

        One in the middle he gave up 9 hits to the worst offense in baseball.

        Over those four starts batters are hitting: .322/.400/.448 with 8 BB against 13 Ks.

        It’s time to pull the plug.

      • ChrisS says:

        That’s entirely without context.

        Hughes had some good moments against SEA, but he left a lot of meatballs right over the plate and most were hit very hard. Against a proper ML offense, he would have given up more than 2 runs.

        • Jorge says:

          But it’s been the battle cry on here for those who want to make the argument that he should be out of the rotation now. I agree it’s a silly point to make.

        • Bum Rush says:

          This. Seattle is also a AAA team.

        • jsbrendog says:

          exactly. and in his 3rd start afte rhis injury seeing some good moments means he gets 1 or 2 more to see if he can build on this herm edwards style. if he continues to be this serviceable you let him go til he throws 2 back to back less than 5ip more than 5 run starts and then go…crap oh well

    • YankeesJunkie says:

      You mean three weeks ago when he was still coming back? Yeah it was too soon to pull and at this current moment it is still to early to pull the plug. The pen while helping Hughes’ velocity and lack of a third is not going to magically cure missing his fastball 3 feet which is the real problem right now. Hughes probably gets one more start on Monday or Tuesday to show some better control and a flash of a third pitch, but right now he looks like a poor AJ Burnett rather than a Roger Clemens.

    • Jorge says:

      The people who don’t think the plug should be pulled are all over this site, my friend.

      Unless he is actively getting worse, and this clearly isn’t what’s best for either Hughes or the team, the best place for him to working through his issues would be in the rotation.

      • Bum Rush says:

        I disagree completely. His stuff is so far diminished the question is whether he can find it again in short bursts as a reliever. Then let him compete for a starting spot next Spring.

        • jsbrendog says:

          yeah the yankees are so far behind a playoff spot they need all hands on deck so they should…wait..what? they’re ahead in the wild card by a large margin? and are letting a former top prospect with lots of potential work out his struggles in the rotation after coming back form injury when he isnt really being that much worse than league average? he is the 5th starter. as 5th starters go he isnt that bad currently.

          let him work it out. theres a reason players have options. nova can be stashed in aaa. being there wont make him worse. he WILL get at least 5 more starts this yr, like, you know, saturday.

          try rational long term thinking.

          • Bum Rush says:

            Rational long-term thinking says they need to fill 2, maybe 3, rotation slots next year. Hughes has been hurt all year. So unless you want to sign up for the Hope (Colon) and Pray (Garcia) duet, they need to start figuring out what they have in the system.

    • Max says:

      Do you seriously want another Joba? He’s 25 and is only very recently back from spending a third of the season away with mysterious dead arm. Give the guy a break.

      • Bum Rush says:

        For how long do we keep grading him on a curve? Nova is clearly better at this point.

        In June alone Nova pitched to a 3.58 ERA with 11 BB against 21 Ks. Batter hit .234/.292/.387

        Nova is far, far better than Hughes at this point and only a moron can’t see it.

        • Mike Axisa says:

          Well, June was also interleague play. That certainly helped.

          • Bum Rush says:

            Oh-kay. So you hold that against the kid but keep making excuses for Hughes showing nothing against the worst offense in baseball. Makes sense.

            • Mike Axisa says:

              When did I hold it against Nova?

              • Bum Rush says:

                You’re devaluing a solid month because of the opponents but pretending Hughes did well enough against Seattle.

                Sure, his best start of the year came against Cincy, but at least that’s a MLB lineup. His second best start came against Texas. The kid is a legit #5. Hughes is nowhere close to that right now.

                • The Big City of Dreams says:

                  IYO what is Hughes

                  • Bum Rush says:

                    Perhaps a relief pitcher, if he can stay healthy. I’d much rather give him those innings than Corey Wade or Boone Logan or Luis Ayala. Let Hughes work his way up the bullpen depth chart. A final four of Hughes, Soriano, Robertson, and Mo means they have a shutdown pen every night of the week, if everyone is healthy.

                    Nova will be fine in the 5 hole. Hell, Noesi would be too, but that’s a whole ‘nother story.

                    • The Big City of Dreams says:

                      I would rather see him in Scranton than in the pen but I understand why you want him to become a reliever.

                • Mike Axisa says:

                  …pretending Hughes did well enough against Seattle.

                  I did no such thing.

                  • Bum Rush says:

                    You called it “in the middle”. 9 hits against that offense is no such thing.

                    • Mike Axisa says:

                      Nova couldn’t get out of the fourth inning against those same Mariners earlier in the year.

                    • Bum Rush says:

                      And he shut down Texas. What’s your point? In the sum totals of their work, it’s not even a competition. It’s a massacre. On every metric, Nova has been far, far better.

                    • Mike Axisa says:

                      Really? Their walk rates are basically identical (0.05 BB/9 difference), Hughes’ K/9 since coming off the DL (5.49 K/9) is better than Nova’s (5.01). Nova’s got a way better GB rate, of course, but I’d hardly call the overall body of work a massacre.

                      I’m not denying Nova was better, never did. He obviously was. The Yankees are going to cruise right into the postseason and have a favorable scheduled over the next month, no reason not to give Hughes some more starts to see if he can right himself.

                    • Bum Rush says:

                      Way to grab the most selective sample. I suppose we just ignore the way Hughes started the year? If you’re fair, you look at their last five starts. Even there it’s a massacre.

                      As for Hughes, how many more starts do you give him?

                    • Mike Axisa says:

                      Hughes was very clearly injured earlier in the year. There’s a big difference between then and now, you should be able to acknowledge that.

                    • jsbrendog says:

                      he actually did earlier saying he was obviously injured but now it doesnt suit his argument so he changed his tone

                    • Bum Rush says:

                      And he’s clearly healthy now?

                      Go compare Nova and Hughes over their last four starts, if you’re interested at all in accuracy and fairness.

                      Don’t want to be that clear? Here you go:

                      Last four MLB starts:
                      Phil: 21.1 IP, 28 H, 13 ER, 9 BB, 13 K
                      Nova: 24.2 IP, 24 H, 10 ER, 8 BB, 16 K

                      Nova is better across the board. More importantly, the Yankees won all four starts.

                    • jsbrendog says:

                      and now he doesnt acknowledge this and says oh so hes clearly healthy? which noone is saying. im done.

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      Bum Rush… STOP. You are not making any sense. You do not need to count injured starts. And Nova is just not that good. No one is disagreeing with you that Hughes is not that good right now. People are disagreeing that Nova is all that good and that Hughes cannot get better in the future/should be moved to the bullpen.

                      Stop fighting windmills Don Quijote.

                      And stop ignoring reality. Hughes’ best start of the season came against… wait for it… Toronto. And Nova’s last start against Texas he gave up 4 ERs in 5.2 innings. Make credible points and people will agree. Twist the truth and people are not going to agree.

            • Sayid J. says:

              I don’t think anyone here dislikes Nova, I just think people are trying to say that Hughes needs to develop somewhere. Sending him to the bullpen is wasting a very valuable asset and sending him to AAA will not help him. Meanwhile, keeping him in the rotation, for now, is not hurting the MLB team to the point where they can’t compete. So, the marginal upgrade to Nova (if there is one), is not worth stunting the development of a pitcher who once did, and may still have, top of the rotation potential.

              • Ted Nelson says:

                Mostly agree.

                Bum Rush is arguing that the Yankees are idiots and Nova is light-years better than Hughes. If Bum Rush were arguing it’s basically a toss up, but he prefers Nova… I don’t think people would disagree.

                Personally I don’t care who is in AAA and MLB between Hughes and Nova, and don’t see why AAA would stunt Hughes development. IMO as long as he’s short-arming the ball and doesn’t have much in terms of secondary offerings he’ll struggle. Command being the even bigger issue. These and Phil issues he can work on against any level of hitting, IMO. Doing it with less pressure against inferior hitters might actually be better for him. Just throw the change and if it gets smacked… oh well. If it gets smacked in MLB, though… that’s a problem, so he can’t just throw it whenever to work on it.

        • Jorge says:

          Where’s TJSC to make his burrito comment? Seriously.

      • The Big City of Dreams says:

        is only very recently back from spending a third of the season away with mysterious dead arm. Give the guy a break.

        ———————-

        I think there are a number of fans that are tired of waiting for Hughes. It has more to do with his overall career and not just his bad starts this season.

        • Bum Rush says:

          It’s not a matter of waiting. He’s had every opportunity and hasn’t done the job.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          You constantly point out that fans have irrational feelings… if they are incorrect, who cares?

          “I feel like the moon is a piece of cheese in the sky that I can reach out and eat…” who cares?

  5. LarryM.,Fl. says:

    If a top #2 pitcher for the Yanks became available to the Yanks. Hughes in my opinion could and should be used to secure the trade. When players are discussed and pitchers included I always hate to give up on a young talent such as Hughes. But, the word talent is being watered down as I watch his performance this year. If Phil Hughes was such a talent as indicated by many in the Yankee Org. than he should be able to make corrections to his delivery and release point to enhance his pitches for more swings and misses. His arm seems to be developing the strength to throw his fastball for 100 pitches without losing first inning velocity but his breaking pitches have so much diversion from sharp to mediocre its baffling to watch. As I indicated above about using him in a trade, its ok. But, he could be just a couple of starts away from correcting it. Who would suffers in this rotation with demotion to keep him. Its not easy win or develop. The Yankees answer this question every year.

    • Jorge says:

      I would probably drive him myself if he were the centerpiece for an ace pitcher rather than, say, making Montero the centerpiece. For someone like Ubaldo Jimenez, though, I’d have bigtime reservations.

      Great points as to Banuelos, btw. Still can’t wait to see what the next year and a half look like for him and Betances.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      So you have noticed that Hughes is struggling this season, but other MLB GMs and scouts have missed it and still think he’s a really valuable guy to get in a trade? They’re really that stupid?

      And there were tons of people outside the Yankees’ org that thought Hughes was/is a great talent. Again… if the Yankees are the only ones high on him, why are other teams going to trade a #2 starter for Hughes?

  6. Rich in NJ says:

    If Hughes is healthy, and if he plateaus from this point and isn’t in the process of gaining arm strength (either way, it does make you wonder they rushed him to the ML after his time on the DL), he could benefit from going to the mL and working on his command/secondary stuff.

  7. mike says:

    it might make sense to put Hughes in the pen for the next month and have Nova make a few starts in his stead.
    Nova has demonstrated an ability to pitch at this level this year, and the schedule looks pretty weak for the next month or so.
    Perhaps giving Phil some time in the pen to get his mechanics/arm back into shape – i remember he was hitting 95 in the playtoffs in 2009. Then, like in 2010, he can come back fresh and compete for the rotation spot.
    unless anyone thinks Phil will morph into a 2/3 for the rest of the year, i believe they will be no worse off than with Nova

    • Bum Rush says:

      Here’s another one:

      In games Nova has started the Yankees are 11-5.

      In games Hughes has started they’re 3-4.

      • Crime Dog says:

        Using team wins and losses to determine how a pitchers pitched is pretty outdated and a poor way to analyze pitchers.

      • gc says:

        Oh, well that settles it then. Why didn’t you say so in the first place?!

        /facepalm

      • jsbrendog says:

        ……………………………………..________……………………
        ………………………………,.-‘”……………….“~.,………………
        ………………………..,.-”……………………………..“-.,…………
        …………………….,/………………………………………..”:,……..
        …………………,?………………………………………………\,…..
        ………………./…………………………………………………..,}….
        ……………../………………………………………………,:`^`..}….
        ……………/……………………………………………,:”………/…..
        …………..?…..__…………………………………..:`………../…..
        …………./__.(…..“~-,_…………………………,:`………./……..
        ………../(_….”~,_……..“~,_………………..,:`…….._/………..
        ……….{.._$;_……”=,_…….“-,_…….,.-~-,},.~”;/….}………..
        ………..((…..*~_…….”=-._……“;,,./`…./”…………../…………
        …,,,___.\`~,……“~.,………………..`…..}…………../………….
        …………(….`=-,,…….`……………………(……;_,,-”……………
        …………/.`~,……`-………………………….\……/\……………….
        ………….\`~.*-,……………………………….|,./…..\,__………..
        ,,_……….}.>-._\……………………………..|…………..`=~-,….
        …..`=~-,_\_……`\,……………………………\……………………
        ……………….`=~-,,.\,………………………….\…………………..
        …………………………..`:,,………………………`\…………..__..
        ……………………………….`=-,……………….,%`>–==“…….
        …………………………………._\……….._,-%…….`\……………
        ……………………………..,<`.._|_,-&“…………….`\…………..

    • Rick in Boston says:

      One of the big issues for Hughes is that he threw a significantly higher number of innings last year than in the previous few. His arm did not rebound the way the team or he thought it would this year (insert Verducci theory here). Putting him back to the bullpen and then asking him to come back next year to start is possibly risking the same thing in 2013.

      • Bum Rush says:

        Wait, so the team fucked up a pitching prospect again, and you still trust them to do the right thing?

        That’s complete lunacy that runs rampant. The team has shown no ability to develop a starter and people still think they’re onto something? I don’t get that at all.

        • Rick in Boston says:

          I didn’t say they fucked him up. I said that there was a significant jump in innings followed by injury/ineffectiveness, which happens with every ballclub. Putting him back into the bullpen isn’t going to help 2012. If the Yankees were in a dogfight for a playoff spot, I could see them doing it. But not with a 97% chance of making the playoffs.

        • The Big City of Dreams says:

          So you don’t buy into the belief of prospects fail all the time it’s not based on the Yankees doing something wrong?

  8. Foghorn Leghorn says:

    I’d like to see more patience with Hughes…he is still young. I wonder if its conditioning more than anything else – he looks fat. Hopefully he can pitch through his issues and finish out the year and work on conditioning in the off season. Instead of labeling him a 1 or 2 starter, he can be a #3/#4 and hopefully develop into a higher level starter.

    So much is written about him being a bust, but if you compare his career stats to Buchholz, they aren’t that different and Hughes is 2 years younger. Buchholz has seemed to turn a corner last year but he wasn’t very effective this year and he may possible be out for the year. For some reason, he gets so much positive press but Hughes gets dumped on.

    • Rick in Boston says:

      It’s the no-hitter. Buchholz is still living off of it. And last year’s numbers masked some pretty iffy numbers – his ERA was over a run lower than his FIP.

      • Foghorn Leghorn says:

        to me, its no different than the Beckett/Burnett comparison…up until this season those two had statistics that were nearly identical like they were separated at birth. But Beckett always recieved more praise b/c of his post season success. This year beckett is clearly better, but those two were like peas in a pod before 2011.

      • Foghorn Leghorn says:

        no hitters are a great acomplishment, but they shouldn’t carry too much weight in evaluating a pitcher. Any major league pitcher is capable of having the stuff required to toss a no hitter on any given day. hell, just ask Joe Cowley or Dallas Braden.

        • Rick in Boston says:

          Oh, I agree, but the MSM loves things they can point to and ignoring stuff they don’t want to see. The difference in age is something that nobody acknowledges but should.

        • The Big City of Dreams says:

          no hitters are a great acomplishment, but they shouldn’t carry too much weight in evaluating a pitcher.

          ————————–

          Probably just a personal preference

    • Ted Nelson says:

      Good point… but since the sky is falling we all have to run around like chickens for our heads cut off acting like what is happening at this very moment is what will happen forever after… didn’t you get the memo?

  9. Favrest says:

    Hughes looks like he’s done. Why trade him now and get nothing for him? That said Jimenez is no better.

  10. Hester Prynne says:

    Hughes needs to be included in the Ubaldo deal because if we get Ubaldo then there’s no room for Hughes in the rotation. Might as well include him and keep a guy like Nova who has shown the ability to induce groundballs like CMW used to do so effectively.

    • Rick in Boston says:

      Why would Colorado take Hughes? He’s struggling right now, is arb eligible and is already making $2.7 million?

    • Jim S says:

      Please. Just STOP making this same point in every effing article, and then not responding to anyone’s replies. It’s a tired act. If you’re an intentional troll, go away, no one appreciates it. If you actually believe these things, then read the freakin’ responses and learn something.

      NO one will take Hughes for a 1/2 starter right now. He has very little trade value. Why on Gods Green Earth would Colorado take Hughes instead of nova/betances/montero? They won’t.

  11. KyleLitke says:

    On Banuelos: He’s young for his level and this year doesn’t change my opinion of him at all. But, he’s walking a crazy amount of guys this year. It’s not like his ERA is a little disappointingly high. I’m not sure how you can put him right in the rotation or make him the first callup coming off walking around 5 per 9. Obviously that’s as of right now, we’ll see what he does in August.

    • Crime Dog says:

      I think Banuelos (like Montero) are proving to be tests in fans’ patience. Yes we want to see them now but we need to understand the idea that the more seasoning they get in the minors, the more of a chance to succeed they’ll have with the big club. For Montero, that time might be now. For Banuelos, only time will tell. Maybe late 2012, or 2013, depending on his improvement.

      • Foghorn Leghorn says:

        you can say the same thing for Hughes…maybe he just needs more seasoning in the majors. we are so impatient now and quick to label a guy as a bust. give him another year or two to figure it out and it may pay dividends long into the future. hell, i’d be happy if Hughes was a solid #3 in his career.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          Agreed… and it’s often the same people who are criticizing the Yankees for not promoting prospects who are the most impatient when guys struggle. Basically, “promote them to challenge them, and if they aren’t able to dominate just cut them…”

        • The Big City of Dreams says:

          Or you can say this is what Hughes is. An injury prone pitcher that will flash dominant stuff in certain yrs and diminished stuff in others.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            Or you can accept that the future is uncertain and there is no reason to jump to ignorant conclusions prematurely based on incomplete information.

  12. Crime Dog says:

    Sidenote: Why does every thread turn into “Hughes sucks!!!1 Coaches’ son!!1!” followed by arguments that aren’t even arguments. It’s just people who obviously want Hughes gone vs people who are being rational.

    • Foghorn Leghorn says:

      its either that or bash Jeter…pick your poison!

    • Tim says:

      Why? Because this thread, like so many other internet message boards relating to sports, politics, fashion, or whatever, contains a fair share of certifiable morons. You know, guys like Cuso, LarryM, Bum Rush, and Jimmy McNulty, just to name a few. That’s right, I used names. So sue me.

      Sometimes I wonder if these are real people who present passionate, if not ridiculous, opinions filled with unintelligible spelling and grammar, calling for the end of world, demanding players who are slumping be drawn and quartered, making claims about other team’s players that are head scratchers, and on and on. These are the same clowns who think that Ivan Nova is more than a back of the rotation starter, that Eduardo Nunez is a regular major league player, that Burnett sucks because he is a “head case”.

      Apparently this weeks “Most Hated Yankee” is Phil Hughes, a guy widely regarded across the league just a few short years ago as the best pitching prospect in baseball. A guy who is just coming back from an arm injury a year after blowing away his previous career high in innings. Hey, at least Burnett and Cervelli can sleep easier knowing that the hoard of jackasses with pitchforks and torches won’t be outside THEIR door tonight.

      I did believe at one time that these really WEREN’T real people commenting in such a ludicrous manner as to embarrass themselves, but then I turn on the TV and see the people we elect to public office and I realize that, yes, they are indeed real. And terrifying.

      And please remember this – if I mentioned your avatar above, I don’t mean that I think your opinion isn’t valuable or worthwhile. All I am trying to say is that when you enter a debate, have the common sense to understand when you are beaten. And realize – if everyone else in the room says “You’re wrong”, you probably are.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        I often hope that some of these comments are made by 10 year old kids and not adults…

      • aluis says:

        I think Tim is totally Wrong. :0)

      • blee says:

        Well, there are always those people.. Same people who called for Cano’s removal after the 2008 season where he batted .271.. his age 25 year…

        Good thing the people who actually make decisions have a better sense than panicky fans.

  13. yankee_lover says:

    i think hughes will be a number 2 or 3 starter by the end of his career he is 25 yrs old trying 2 get over an injury and he only had 4 starts and in three of those starts he only gave up 2 runs yall all calling for his head if we judged people on four starts a lot of people wouldnt have a job

Leave a Reply

You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong> in your comment.

If this is your first time commenting on River Ave. Blues, please review the RAB Commenter Guidelines. Login for commenting features. Register for RAB.