Open Thread: Rotation Plans

Yankees quiet as 2011 trade deadline passes
Mitchell & Marshall roughed up in losses
(AP Photo/Charles Krupa)

The trade deadline has come and gone, and for the first time since 2002, the Yankees didn’t make a single move. That’s in the past now, so the Yankees are moving on with the team and rotation they have. Jack Curry says they’re leaning towards employing a six-man rotation for at least the next turn through the rotation, which makes sense. They can’t just take Phil Hughes out of the rotation and re-insert Ivan Nova because the scheduled won’t allow it, they don’t line up. By keeping Hughes in the rotation for another turn, the Yankees can do this…

Monday @ White Sox: CC Sabathia
Tuesday @ White Sox: Phil Hughes
Wednesday @ White Sox: A.J. Burnett
Thursday @ White Sox: Ivan Nova
Friday @ Red Sox: Bartolo Colon
Saturday @ Red Sox: Freddy Garcia or Sabathia
Sunday @ Red Sox: Garcia or Sabathia

Everyone gets an extra day of rest, and the Yankees will be able to run their top three starters out there in Fenway Park next week. They have the Monday after the Boston series off, so they can re-evaluate things then. It’ll give them a chance to take Hughes out of the rotation, take Nova out of the rotation, whatever their heart desires. They also have the option of sticking to a six-man rotation for the next few week, though I don’t love the idea. It would allow them to give Colon and Garcia extra rest for the next few weeks, and that’s a good thing because they need to save some of those bullets for what we hope is a playoff drive. Either way, that rotation above is what we’ll see this week, in all likelihood.

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Here is the night’s open thread. The ESPN Sunday Night Game is in St. Louis for the Cubs and Cardinals (Dempster vs. Westbrook), but talk about whatever you like. Go nuts.

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Yankees quiet as 2011 trade deadline passes
Mitchell & Marshall roughed up in losses
  • jay destro

    #monteromonday

  • teddy

    SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
    #yankees offered to pay $21M of the $38M remaining on wandy’s contract. houston didn’t take it obvs. #tradedeadline

    • Jimmy McNulty

      That’s a lot of money to take on for Wandy…what were the prospects that the Yankees offered, or did he say anywhere?

      • teddy

        i think yanks saw it as a salary dump

        • Mike

          So we tried to trade money for him. I guess they actually wanted good prospects.

  • John

    I’ve read that most scouts and GMs feel that there’s 0 chance anyone would claim Wandy on waivers. Seems like the Stros placed a much higher value on him than every other team in baseball did.

    • Jimmy McNulty

      Ed Wade trying to save his job? He must really dread the thought of working at ESPN.

  • ultimate913

    I saw Montero wasn’t in the AAA lineup and got excited for a bit. But then someone at the game told me he is the first base coach today. *sigh*

    Also.

    “It’s great for him. I’m happy for him and I know he’s ready to go up there and do his job.” — Dellin Betances on Banuelos’ promotion

    Your time is coming soon too, Dellin.

    • Karl Krawfid

      First base coach :(

      • Cy Pettitte

        watch your back Mick Kelleher, Jesus is coming

        • Karl Krawfid

          lol good one. This news made me sad :(

        • pat

          Mary Magdelen’d

      • Phil

        He was too bored to play. Wanted to try something new.

        • Rainbow Connection

          RAB’d

      • http://twitter.com/#!/Paddock9652 Stratman9652

        For some reason I don’t think the team has an actual first base coach. It’s normally whatever bench player feels like doing it, if that consoles anyone. I caught a four game set last month, Montero was off the first two games and coached first, then Doug Bernier did it the other two.

      • The Big City of Dreams

        # onlywayhecanbeinpinstripes

  • Wil Nieves Number 1 Fan

    Freddy is the worst match up against the Sox.

  • Jack Merridew

    Hughes has gotta show something on Tuesday to keep his spot. As an AL pitcher you don’t get much better teams to go up against than Oakland, Seattle, and the White Sox. If he shows no improvement Tuesday I don’t want him starting at Boston and Mike’s plan would be the best course of action with Hughes being demoted.

  • Cy Pettitte

    can they realistically consider using Banuelos much, if at all, in the rotation or pen later this season? only threw ~110 innings in 2010 year and is already at ~95 this year.

    • http://twitter.com/Carlosologist_7 Carlosologist

      His limit this year should be ~140 IP, so theoretically he could come up in September once rosters expand.

      • YankeesJunkie

        I am guessing he gets 2 or 3 starts in AAA before they try him in the pen for the rest of the year. Either that or he starts in AAA for the rest of the year and the Yanks call it that. I see the former as much more logical at this point.

        As for the six man rotation hopefully this debacle only lasts one turn as six man rotations for extended periods are pure idiocy.

  • Phife Dawg

    Gotta think Cashman keeping the top tier prospects and not mortgaging the future by trading them for whoever he can get makes it seem like he’s not going to leave his position at the end of the season no?

    • radnom

      I would sincerely hope that Cashman is professional enough that his long term plans do not affect decisions that should be based solely on whats best for the organization.

      So no, I wouldn’t read into it.

      • Jimmy McNulty

        I think they coincide, though.

  • Jimmy McNulty

    I heard some idiots on MLBN saying that they’d rather have Bedard than Wandy. Insane.

    • Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat

      Healthy Bedard > Wandy

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        Bedard is never healthy though. He’s like Eric Chavez, something always goes wrong.

        • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

          If you plan on counting on him to take the ball every 5th day, I agree.

          But if he does nothing else but stay upright and be effective for 3 weeks in October, its a steal. If that doesn’t happen, they gave up no one that they’ll ever miss all that much. Significant upside, no downside as I see it.

          • Jimmy McNulty

            Like the Penny/Smoltz signings!

            Seriously though, I think they’ll be thrilled if they even manage to get five starts out of him.

            • radnom


              Like the Penny/Smoltz signings!

              Yes. Or the Colon/Garcia signings. Not sure what your point is – some times it works, some times it doesn’t. Low cost high upside moves are *always* good moves, especially for teams in the position of the Sox and Yankees right now. Its ok..you can admit the Red Sox made a good move and it doesn’t make you a panicy mouthbreather. You know that right?

              • http://www.youcantpredictbaseball.com bexarama

                It’s kinda funny that you’re saying this to Jimmy McNulty of all people…

                (I agree. It was a fine move for Boston. Not a difference maker but a fine move.)

                • Jimmy McNulty

                  I never said it was a bad move, I was reacting to the “no downside” comment. Like I said before, I think they’re just looking for a few starts. Five starts is about a month of pitching and it buys them time until Buchholz returns. It’s a solid move, but there’s clearly downside risk.

              • Jimmy McNulty

                There’s no such thing as a zero risk move. The risk is that you not only gave up a good defensive catcher but you have a shitty Erik Bedard taking a rotation turn every five days. Much like the risk in the Colon/Garcia signings, the risk was that you have to sit through fucking Colon and Garcia three or four times a week. Though, it turns out that outcome wasn’t such a bad thing afterall.

      • Jimmy McNulty

        Is there such a thing as the first argument in your ____ > _____ equation? I don’t think I’ve ever heard of such a thing.

    • FIPster Doofus

      I’d rather have Bedard when you consider their contracts.

  • Zach

    I don’t want to play Texas. They look alot better on paper now that they have a real ‘pen.

    • http://twitter.com/Carlosologist_7 Carlosologist

      The pen argument is stupid, we have Robertson/Soriano/Mo.

      • Jimmy McNulty

        The second guy is what scares me.

        • http://twitter.com/Carlosologist_7 Carlosologist

          Soriano’s a wild card, yeah, but if comes back and pitches well we’ve got a (even more) lockdown bullpen

      • A.D.

        Not saying that Texas pen is better than the Yanks pen, but it is better than their pen from 3 days ago

    • BigBlueAL

      Yankees havent had much problem against their starters this season so if that pen aint coming in to protect leads for Texas I could care less how good it is right now.

  • Jimmy McNulty

    Shit, the Red Sox got Josh Fields too? I remember seeing him at the CWS, he was a pretty nice dude and probably had the best arm at the 2008 CWS. Wonder why he hasn’t taken off. Side note: is it not hilarious that they were willing to deal Lars Anderson for RIch Harden?

    • Phife Dawg

      Fields is averaging 6.4 BB/9 in his 3 minor league seasons.

      I thought Lars Anderson was going to be a sure thing Hall of Famer… how far the mighty have fallen.

      • Jimmy McNulty

        Keep in mind the best arm I saw prior to Josh Fields was Andrew Miller. Dude was sick in college.

        • Phife Dawg

          I remember he and Alex White were probably the best 1-2 combo in college while they were both there.

          Sucks how Miller’s career has never taken off. He’s got the stuff to be really good (hard throwing lefty. I think he made his MLB debut like 3 months after he got drafted.

          • Jimmy McNulty

            Yeah he wanted a guaranteed call up the year he was drafted in his call up. Detroit wanted him, so they agreed,

            • Phife Dawg

              Probably ruined his development in the process.

              • Jimmy McNulty

                He was the prototype for the Joba Chamberlain model of developing pitching. ;)

  • BigBlueAL

    Talking about the lack of trading for another SP, Im just as skeptical of the Yankee rotation come October as everyone else is but the fact is the Yankees pitching this season has been much better than both Boston and Texas.

    Texas will be tough and they would have homefield but w/o Cliff Lee this year I dont “fear” them. I fully expect the Yankees to beat Texas if they face them in the playoffs this season. Boston obviously have Beckett and Lester plus the best offense in baseball so yeah they will be tough and to be honest I dont expect the Yankees to be able to beat them in the ALCS if it comes down to that but it certainly is not a foregone conclusion that the Red Sox will beat them.

    Also I mentioned this last night but who wouldve thought before the season that going into Fenway in early August and we are hoping the Yankees adjust the rotation to avoid using Hughes and AJ there and allow them to use their best 3 starters which include Colon and Garcia.

    • Jimmy McNulty

      I mean I’d probably rather have Boston’s team in the playoffs, but it’s not by any large margin or anything. I’m as bummed as anyone about the lack of a new starter…shit just didn’t work out. Unless you wanted to trade for a power pitcher with a drop in velocity that you can’t examine, or pay through the ass for a rental, or take on Wandy’s contract for Wandy…not a whole lot out there. Shit happens, gotta do the best with what they got left.

      Side note: I still think Wandy will be a Yankee this year, he’ll clear waivers and they’ll probably give them someone no better than like Nuñez or Laird for taking 38M off the Astros hands.

      • John

        I actually think paying the 40mil and giving up nunez would be overpaying. It’s obvious no one wants to pay Wandy his 40 mil, and it’s also obvious that the Stros aren’t willing to pay much of it since their whole purpose of trading him is to save money. I’d say paying 40 mil and giving up anything better than a Warren/AAA+ type pitcher would be overpaying. The wandy market is bone dry.

        • Jimmy McNulty

          I’d probably rather have Warren than Eduardo. Maybe trade them Brackman for Wandy…too soon? ;) In all seriousness probably trade them a guy that profiles as a bench player.

  • Brian S.

    I like the six-man rotation for this week idea Mike. Your opinion is now mine.

  • Bronx Byte

    Hughes better have a good outing on Tuesday or he’ll feel Nova coming on like a runaway freight train.

  • Phife Dawg

    Anyone think Montero is getting called up this week or is Cashman going to wait after the Boston series to call him up? Interesting to see if Jesus is thrown into the gauntlet early.

    • Brian S.

      He should be up TOMORROW.

  • Jack Merridew

    I’d also like to see Montero called up for Cervelli. Montero improves the backup catcher, Cervelli isn’t even good defensively. He also improves DH as he can play vs left handers. Montero up, Cervelli down, depending on Hughes’s start Tuesday Nova possibly up for good, Hughes down.

    • Jetrer

      Jones is the DH vs. lefties, and he has done well against lefties.
      I don’t think they bring up Montero just to be the backup catcher.
      Unless they DFA Posada, I don’t think Montero will be up until September.

  • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

    Not sure if we’ve all had time to digest the trade news, but how does everyone rank the teams heading into October as things currently stand?

    Texas and St Louis got significantly better. Atlanta, Philly and San Fran made solid upgrades in areas of need.

    • Jimmy McNulty

      Tough to rank, there’s a lot of teams that are bunched up really close. I’m still pulling for Pittsburgh in the Central, but it looks like St. Louis mortgaged the future for a playoff berth and Tony LaRussa’s ego.

      • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

        I mean as favorites to win the WS. Before the season it was most commonly thought of as:
        Philly
        Boston
        NYY

        with ATL, SF, TEX and STL rounding out the top 7 in some order. But I’m wondering with Texas and Atlanta making significant moves and the Yanks standing pat if some people feel the order has changed at all. Anyone think TEX has moved ahead of the Yanks?

        • mbonzo

          All the Rangers did was improve their bullpen, and Soriano-Robertson-Rivera still beats Uehara-Adams-Felix in my opinion.

          The Braves are very underrated going into the postseason, they have a legitimate shot of taking the NL East from the Phillies, especially when all their rosters expand.

          Giants also got a bit better, but they were already my favorite from the NL.

          • JobaWockeeZ

            Yeah it’s not a big move to get two of the better set up men in the game. Not a big deal…

            • Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat

              Good Soriano/D-Rob/Mo is still better than Adams/Uehara/Feliz.

            • The Fallen Phoenix

              So the Rangers bullpen went from being one pitcher deep to three pitchers deep. That’s a significant upgrade, to be sure, but it still doesn’t move them ahead of, say, the Yankees bullpen, which is between four and five pitchers deep depending on which version of Boone Logan shows up to the ballpark.

    • mbonzo

      NL- 1. Giants 2. Phillies 3. Braves 4. Brewers

      AL- 1. Red Sox 2. Yankees 3. Rangers 4. Indians

      Ranked by who will make the post season and then by where they rank in a short series.

      • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

        Giants ahead of the Phillies?

        • mbonzo

          In a short series, I think Giants have the upper hand. The rotations are very close to me, but the Giants’ pitchers have a lot of success against the Phillies. Phillies bullpen is still a joke.

        • JobaWockeeZ

          I’m not accusing mbonzo of doing this but the Phillies were extremely underrated in the offseason at RAB.

          • mbonzo

            Their rotation is fantastic, but I like the Giants rotation better in a short series against the Phillies.

            • JobaWockeeZ

              Yup it’s close either way. But in general at RAB it was somewhat funny seeing how underrated the Phillies were before the season. Not saying you did of course.

              • http://www.youcantpredictbaseball.com bexarama

                The Phillies got fucking laughably underrated over here. Not sure why.

                • mbonzo

                  Bitterness towards the Lee acquisition.

                  I personally think the Braves are just a better organization in the division. I’d put them right behind the Yankees overall. They have great pitching, great hitting, and one of the best farm systems. That said, Phillies are still the team to beat, they’re all in.

                  • http://www.youcantpredictbaseball.com bexarama

                    Yeah, didn’t even consider that.

                    I think the Braves are a generally really great organization right now. They’re doing very well and their minors are pretty stacked. I also fucking loooove that Bourn acquisition for them, considering they gave up NO ONE. (They do not have great hitting, though, but a lot of that is due to the whole Uggla being terrible thing.) But the Phillies are the class of the NL right now and it always seemed that way to me.

                    • Jimmy McNulty

                      Heyward’s mired in a bit of a Sophomore slump too. If Uggla starts hitting again and if Freeman gets going, Freeman/McCann/Heyward/Uggla/Bourn should be a decent offense.

                    • http://www.youcantpredictbaseball.com bexarama

                      I agree but those are a lot of ifs.

                • CP

                  I was relatively down on the Phillies coming into the season because their offense wasn’t very good (especially with Utley out) and they were completely relying on 4 pitchers – and pitchers always get hurt. As it happened, they lost Oswalt to a bad back, but the surprise is that Vance Worley has stepped up and pitched well. They also didn’t/don’t have much financial flexibility and I didn’t expect them to be able to add a significant piece like Pence.

                  Right now, I would rate them higher than I did at the beginning of the season. Getting Pence (a right hander to fit in with their lefties) and keeping 3 starters healthy are the key reasons.

    • Jack Merridew

      Even with Texas and Atlanta’s moves I still think it’ll come down to Yanks-Sox and Phillies-Giants. Anything can happen in the short series, especially the first 5 game series but I think all 4 of those teams get through barring a major injury. Phillies and Giants still have better pitching than the Braves and NL Central winner and the Yanks/Sox’s lineups are too powerful. Remember, we’re still missing A-Rod.

      • YankeesJunkie

        A-Rod still has the second highest WAR on the Yankee team offensively which has just shown how impressive he has been. Montero should be called up sooner rather later to replace Cervelli and the Yankees add another offensive boost.

        • Jack Merridew

          Agree 100%. The offense has done well without one of our best hitters. If A-Rod can come back fully healthy it’s a huge boost. With Joe’s new lineup Cano would hit 6th when A-Rod returns and the red hot Swisher would hit 7th. Jesus can come up and boost the DH and backup C positions offensively.

    • YankeesJunkie

      I still think the AL and NL East teams are the best off at this point. While the Rangers got a lot of relievers I don’t think CJ matches up with either Sabathia or Lester/Beckett that well. The Cardinals while better are probably still the weak link in the NL. Both the Yankees and Red Sox have enough offense to win a division series and the team that wins it will be the one that can have their ace step up and have their #2 and #3 starters keep the game close.

    • JobaWockeeZ

      1. Phillies
      2. Red Sox

      (small gap)

      3. Yankees
      4. Giants

      (small gap)

      5. Braves
      6. Rangers
      7. Brewers

      (insanely big gap)

      8. Tigers

      • JobaWockeeZ

        I put back every injured player back in this btw.

      • Hall and Nokes

        Not sold on the Brewers. Not convinced of a gap between SF and Atlanta, assuming that McCann and Chipper are healthy for the stretch.

        • JobaWockeeZ

          No you’re right there shouldn’t be any gap. But the Giants have Beltran and perhaps Belt to save their horrendous offense.

          • The Fallen Phoenix

            So the Giants have one-and-a-half bats going into the postseason this year. I guess that’s about the same as last year, though, so who knows. Beltran’s better than Posey was last year, and I’d take Belt over the corpse of Pat the bat, too.

        • http://www.youcantpredictbaseball.com bexarama

          McCann shouldn’t be an issue. Chipper, probably. Though Uggla’s starting to hit, so that’ll obviously help them.

      • http://www.youcantpredictbaseball.com bexarama

        This seems about right to me. I might switch the Braves or Rangers, or move one of them up to the Yankees/Giants gap, but those two teams seem extremely streaky from an outsider’s POV. Like they’ll look unbeatable, and then they’ll look terrible, for extended periods on end.

        In a playoff, I might put the Angels above the Tigers – seriously. Weaver/Haren is an awesome 1/2. But I don’t think they’re making the playoffs.

      • CP

        I’d put the Yankees in the same group as the Phillies/Red Sox. Right now, the Red Sox rotation is worse than the Yankees. I’ll take CC/Colon/Freddy/Nova (or AJ or Hughes) over their group of Beckett/Lester/Bedard/Wakefield (or Miller or Lackey).

        • Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat

          Also, the Yankees have a better offense on paper IMO:
          Agon > Tex,
          Cano > PEDroia,
          Jeter > Scutaro,
          ARod = Youk,
          Swish > Drew/Reddick/McDonald.
          Ellsbury > Gardner
          Grandy > Crawford
          Salty > Martin, Martin > Varitek

          Lots of the Red Sox have unsustainable babip’s while the yankees have unusually low babip’s.

          • Rainbow Connection

            Why are you moving OF’ers around to make your point?

    • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

      Let me make the case that TEX should at least be tied with the Yanks after today.

      (AL)

      #3 in Runs Scored, Yanks #2. Pretty much even.

      #3 in starters ERA, Yanks #5. Very close.

      #11 in bullpen ERA, Yanks #1. Huge edge Yanks

      But with the acquisition of two outstanding relievers in Adams and Uehara, I think you have to reassess that going forward.

      I think the Yanks and Rangers are a dead heat for third favorite to win the WS.

      • mbonzo

        Red Sox Babip: .315

        Rangers Babip: .299

        Yankees Babip: .290

        Red Sox babip is unsustainable, Rangers will probably go down a bit, while the Yankees should go up. Yankees will probably be adding a huge bat in Montero too. I don’t think its a crazy to think the Yanks will have the best offense for the rest of the season.

        • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

          I’m not so sure. What’s the career marks for the players on those teams? Maybe the Sox just have a bunch of high BABIP guys and the other teams don’t. Those numbers need some context.

          • http://notanevilempire.com/ Steve O.

            The RedSox also play half their games at Fenway, and the Rangers play half their games at Arlington. Those two parks probably have something to do with the inflated BABIP.

            • Jimmy McNulty

              Wouldn’t a bigger park mean a higher BABIP? Bigger park means more places for a ball to drop, no?

          • mbonzo

            Agon is at .401 (Career .321), Ellsbury at .345 (.326), Josh Reddick has only had 132 PA but he’s got a .376 babip. The only below career Babips for them are JD Drew and Scutaro who have been trending downward.

            Tex is at .226 (.297), Martin at .243 (.296), Posada is 50 points off his career (should go up but not much), Jeter at .298 (.354)

            • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

              Not a big fan of cherry picking, but 2 of those Yankee numbers are largely a result of age, and A-Gon is going from Petco to Fenway.

              • Jimmy McNulty

                There’s no way a .401 BABIP is sustainable. That’d basically make him Ted Williams.

                • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

                  Agreed, but he should still get a bump changing ballparks.

  • Grit for Brains

    According to FanGraphs, aside from the Mariners the Yanks have the best xFIP of any AL team overall and also as starters. The Whitesox and Jays have better bullpen xFIPs…Hope they can keep this up.

  • mt

    This is my problem with Cash doing nothing. At beginning of year Yanks said that if we could make it to trading deadline we would replenish definitely. That was partially because Colon did not pitch last year and Garcia petered out last year during his last five starts IIRC.

    Now Colon and Garcia have perfomed better than anyone of us could have expected. But from a physical standpoint nothing has changed – Colon is still an overweight pitcher who is seeing a massive increase in his innings this year and Garcia has not pitched over 157 innings since 2006. (he is projected to be at 179 innings this year) In addition, Hughes (who to me is no help this year as far as being able to rely on him; does not mean we jettison him or anything but I really think he is no more than maybe a No 5 starter with current command and velocity) and Burnett (who while not collapsing like last year, still does not inspire confidence) should not be counted on.

    I think Cash is letting Colon/Garcia regular season success cloud him from dealing with a risk that still exists. The objective should not have been to get a pitcher better than Colon/Garcia are pitching now -that was not the right question. The question Cashman should have answered: if Colon and Garcia disappeared tomorrow, who would I rather have start game 2: Bedard or Burnett/Hughes/Nova. In other words, I think it is foolhardy to rely on Garcia/Colon continuing on into October. Be overjoyed for what Colon/Garcia have given us but now we are pushing it.

    I cannot see given what Boston gave up for Bedard, that Yanks could not have at least tried to exceed that offer. Now Beadard is a health risk too but are all of our prospects so valuable that we couldn’t exceed that offer with somebody non-Montero or non-Betances/Banuelos?
    Or try to have taken on Teahen’s contract and gotten a third team to give us a reliever for some of our prospects to make Edwin Jackson deal work?

    I think we are confusing regular season success and what faces us in postseason. Probably CC will be facing the #1 pitcher (CJ Wilson, Verlander, Jimenez(??), Weaver, Lester, Halladay/Lincecum if we get that far) in game 1 – very easily, we could lose 2-1 or 3-2. Who pitches Game 2 – I am comfortable with Colon from a stuff perspective but worried about him surviving and maintaining his stuff into the playoffs. Garcia to me is NOT an option – even he says that he trades on hitter’s agressiveness – I think he beneifts from the 162 game grind where there are so many games and the big contrast he has with other pitchers with different styles that pitch before and after him. Batters do not focus specifically on not giving in to his slop. (For example, today after fourth game in 46 hours how much were O’s going to dig in rather than just swing early?) In a playoff series, I cannot imagine Texas or Boston or Detroit not focusing enough and getting themselves out by flailing at his off-speed stuff – there would be so much conversation before hand about “how is Freddy Garcia doing so well” those batters would focus on not giving in to his off-speed stuff.

    Put it this way, batters can focus all they want on Tim Lincecum’s change-up beforehand and still not hit it (his fastball is good enough to keep them honest). I am not sure the same applies to Freddy’ slow splitter/slider/curve/change repertoire.

    • JobaWockeeZ

      I think Cash is letting Colon/Garcia regular season success cloud him from dealing with a risk that still exists.

      The thing is he looked at every good starter that could have been available. The Twins think they are competing, the Astros want good prospects, and the White Sox already made a move with one of the best GMs in the game. The Rockies wouldn’t let Cashman do a physical and wanted Montero, betances, Hughes and Nova. Lolwut. Seeing as he’s 27 and losing velocity that’s not a smart gamble.

      He’s looking more towards the future instead of the now. It sucks but you can’t win it every year and they have the bets run differential in baseball so it’s not like the team sucks. I mean I think the Sox will kill them in a short series but whatever. Pray to be lucky I suppose.

      • mt

        Agreed. I’ve got my rosary :-)

    • mbonzo

      Even if the Yankees acquired the best starting pitcher available, Jimenez, they wouldn’t have been a team that wins with pitching. They are an offensive team, and there was nothing Cashman could do to give them starting pitching that matched the Giants or Phillies. On top of that, pitching is so unreliable, anything could happen in a short series. Acquiring a guy like Kuroda would have cost 6 years of each prospect for 2 months of what might be better than one the Yankees 6 starters. Yankees have enough depth in the majors and AAA to put a guy out there that will probably pitch a quality game in game 2. Its not gonna be a CGSO, but no one Cashman could acquire would do that. We’re left hoping this offense is strong enough to overcome some of the best pitchers in the game. A year from now, we’ll have 2 of the best pitching prospects in the majors and then maybe we’ll be a team that can rely on pitchers to win. The Giants didn’t win the World Series last year by trading their top prospects for trade deadline targets.

      • mt

        I was not advocating trading best prospects for a Jimenez or Kuroda; we could get somebody who should be better than Burnett/Hughes/Nova without using top prospects.

        I am serious that Cashman needed to approach this as if Colon and Garcia may disappear tomorrow – if they continue to thrivet, great – Colon pitches 2 and Gracia piches 3 or 4. If not, we have a back-up plan.

        I think we could have gotten Bedard or Jackson or Dempster (??)without top prospects. Maybe I am also overreacting because I hope we are in a position where Hughes and Burnett do not have to pitch in a playoff series. I guess both have time to improve before October but not counting on it.

        Lars Anderson equivalent in our system (who got Harden before Boston backed out) is not “our top prospects”.

        • 28 this year

          You are talking about question marks and you bring up Bedard and Dempster. Jackson is probably a guy we could have used but I am sure Cashman tried and a match couldn’t be found. But Bedard can hardly pitch without his arm falling off and Dempster is just mediocre in the NL Central. I don’t think he is any improvement over what we already have. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side. You’re just looking for names without realizing the names don’t match the talent.

        • mbonzo

          Bedard, Jackson, and Dempster are no upgrades to Colon or Garcia, and Hughes and Nova could have better second halfs. I think a Lars Anderson equivalent would be an Austin Romine type. Is he worth the gamble that Colon or Garcia get injured and Hughes and Nova can’t do the same. If Felix Hernandez was available, I’d be with you, but there was nothing out there that could improve the organization.

    • 28 this year

      lets trade players to combat our health risks by getting one of the most injured pitchers of all time in Erik Bedard. The only way he makes it healthy to Game 2 is if we wrapped in bubble tape and put him in solitary confinement until four minutes before the game where he will inevitably hurt himself during warm ups. There was no sure thing out there for Cashman to get and Bedard isn’t some savior just because the Red Sox got him. Trading our pitching prospects wouldn’t solve anything. In fact, if the question mark we acquire gets injured, now not only do we lose our acquisition, we also lost the guys who back up said acquisition. The Yankees have the depth to deal with these issues and nothing out there would solve their problems. There’s a risk with both sides, making an acquisition means losing players as well, probably more than one.

      • mt

        Yes, there is no sure thing but even given his health risk I sadly have more faith in Erik Bedard than I have right now in Burnett and Hughes. I only mentioned Bedard because at his height he is very good (and left-handed). Jackson and Dempster do not have health risks and I am sure there could have been others. Again our standard was a #2 – once it became clear none available (or we none available without the injury concrens we had on Jimenez), standard should have been better than Burnett/Hughes/Nova.

        Everything is a risk – Bedard/Jackson could get injured or suck but my only point is that we could have hedged our Colon/Garcia implosion risk (which we have all talked about for months) without giving up our top prospects.

        Also if Cashman did trade for Bedard it would not be the first time Cashman took on a risky player to deal with a risk he was trying to avoid – remember he let Damon and Matsui go because of age/injury risk yet turned around and got Nick Johnson :-)

        • 28 this year

          you are also forgetting that Nick Johnson was significantly cheaper than Damon or Matsui and because he didn’t have name value, when he was injured/sucked, he could be replaced. Unlike when Damon and Matsui would suck and we would be stuck ala Posada.

  • 28 this year

    For a slow moving deadline, this is probably the most active deadline in recent years. Not too many huge blockbusters, but a significant amount of players moved in deals.

  • Pat D

    Quite frankly, I’m starting to get a little startled by a lot of you guys and gals.

    Let me be blunt:

    JESUS MONTERO WILL NOT BE WITH THE MAJOR LEAGUE TEAM TOMORROW OR ANYTIME BEFORE SEPTEMBER 1!!!!!!!!!!!

    • mt

      Thanks. I would love to see Jesus come up but people are acting that Cashman “better promote” Jesus because he made no trade at deadline. I am not sure Yanks see the same connection like fans do.

    • http://notanevilempire.com/ Steve O.

      Pat D =/= Brian Cashman.

      • Pat D

        Never said I was.

        But please tell me what move they make to call up Montero? Cut Posada? If they were going to do that, they would have done it back in May. Send down Cervelli? Maybe, but Girardi thinks Cervelli is a good defensive catcher.

        I just don’t see it happening.

        • http://notanevilempire.com/ Steve O.

          You never said you were, but you said it as fact. Saying “I just don’t see it happening” is a lot less definitive than “Jesus Montero will not be with the team until rosters expand.”

          Who knows? Maybe ‘Sado/Cervelli comes up lame running out a groundball. Maybe Posada completely tanks? I’m not saying that will be the only reason he’d come up, but it’d certainly help.

          I’m not sure what move they’d make. I’d send Cervelli down, but we can’t be sure the Yankees will. The Yankees have to bring him up. They have to. It’s just a matter of when.

          • Midland TX

            After that lecture on fact vs. fiction, you went on to issue your own opinion the same way:

            The Yankees have to bring him up. They have to. It’s just a matter of when.

            You’re a hypocrite, and Pat D. is right–barring a string of catastrophes there’s no good reason to bring the kid up before the rosters expand.

  • http://twitter.com/SteveH_MandAura Steve H

    Peavy is basically owed $21 million next year, so he’ll clear waivers. If you could get the Sox to pick up 6 or 7 million, giving you 1 yr and 2 months of Peavy (with $14 or $15 million cost for next year), would you be interested, and how much would you give up?

    • http://notanevilempire.com/ Steve O.

      This is interesting, however, considering the limited(none) availability of Danks and Floyd, I highly doubt that.

      To go along with your hypothetical, I’d be interested, but at 14-15 million, it’d be a straight salary dump. They’d be able to get a C, maybe a B prospect. I’d be willing to part with Phelps-Mitchell-Noesi-Nova-Joseph, someone in that tier. I wouldn’t like it, but I’d probably do it.

      • http://notanevilempire.com/ Steve O.

        Actually, now that I think about it, I wouldn’t put Joseph, Noesi or Nova in it. That’s just too much money to take on for such an injury risk.

        It’d have to be almost a complete salary dump. Phelps-Mitchell-Hall would be doable.

      • http://twitter.com/SteveH_MandAura Steve H

        I think they’d be more likely to let Peavy go due to the cost (and his injury issues), but they’d likely have to fall completely out of the race. I’d be interested but definitely wouldn’t give up much, agree with what you have for a price.

        • http://notanevilempire.com/ Steve O.

          You never know with Kenny Williams. They could be 10 games out, and still look to add pieces. His contract would also probably slip through waivers. It’d be like the Javy Vasquez deal except no top pitching prospect lost.

          (ducks)

      • Midland TX

        Peavy is and was a primadonna and a rube who complained about and rejected New York as a destination back when San Diego was looking to move him. It wouldn’t have been a good match then and it ain’t happening now.

    • Pasqua

      Anyone who thinks the Sox made a good move in getting Bedard should be in full support of this idea. Two very talented pitchers will zero ability to actually stay on the mound.

      As for me, I wouldn’t do it. That’s still a lot of money to spend on a guy who stands almost no chance of staying healthy.

  • Craig

    With The Pence trade, does Philly have ANY depth left?

    • mbonzo

      If you don’t consider Dominic Brown a prospect anymore, theres basically nothing left. Brody Colvin, Trevor May, and Jesse Biddle are their top prospects, and I would say they’re B/B- prospects. No top prospects.

  • John

    At the 4pm deadline I was very disappointed to see us not land some pitching help. But while it’s easy to blame Cashman, there just simply wasn’t a deal that fit our team well.

    The Rockies wanted wayyy to much for Ubaldo (and Cleveland overpaid).
    Stros wanted too much for Wandy. He’s due 40mil, I’m not sure what ever made them believe they could get someone to take on that cash and offer up prospects.
    Kuroda didn’t want to waive his no-trade.
    And there simply wasn’t anyone else available. It’s certainly very frustrating, but it isn’t really anyone’s fault within the Yankee organization.

    With that being said, it’s August and we need to be putting the best team on the field every game. Montero should be up by mid-august at the latest. Hopefully A-Rod will come back and provide some serious firepower.

  • MikeW

    The following is a repost and I am curious to hear Mike’s thoughts on this idea:

    I think the Yankees can try something different … 6 men in a 5 man rotation:

    Sabathia
    Garcia for ~80 pitches/Colon for ~ 80 pitches
    AJ
    Hughes
    Nova

    On the surface a rotation like this appears to need an addtional pitcher but I think the day that Garcia/Colon pitches will be a day of rest for the BP as each has shown they can throw 80 pitches and be reasonably effective. This plan puts less stress on Garcia and Colon, gives Hughes and Garcia chances to get stronger and keep Sabathia and AJ on a 5 day rotation.

    By the end of August the Yankees should be able to know which of their 6 starters can be productive for them down the stretch. I do not think this plan means they need an additonal BP arm as both Colon and Garcia have each needed relief. The problem is not with using Garcia and Colon on the same day. The problem is with relying on Hughes and Nova but the Yankees need to get them ready for the psot season and this plan seems to move in that direction while keeping Colon and Garcia as fresh as possible.

    • mbonzo

      I’d rather have Hughes/Nova have their own day, until we know what we have with Hughes.

  • Pat D

    Woo hoo! I’m an uncle!!!

    In other news…wow, I remember when I used to like Harold Reynolds. But he just said some things that put the final nail in the “He’s a Fucking Idiot” coffin.

    • mbonzo

      Congratulations!

      • Pat D

        Thank you.

    • Zanath

      What did he say? He’s usually the only guy I can stand on MLB Network.

      • Pat D

        He said that the Yankees rotation (CC, AJ, Colon, Garcia) is not going to beat the Giants, the Phillies or the Brewers. Yet the Giants struggle to score runs, they swept the Brewers and shut them down offensively (SSS warning), and the Phillies don’t have a juggernaut lineup, either.

        Then immediately afterward he praised the Cardinals for bringing in Rafael Furcal (.197/.272/.248) and Corey Patterson (.252/.287/.379).

        • Zanath

          Ive heard stupider things….but yeah that’s not too smart either.

          • Pat D

            Yea, I don’t worry about the Yankees rotation beating those teams.

            I worry about them beating the Red Sox and the Rangers. Two teams that can actually, ya know, score runs.

    • Rainbow Connection

      Everytime I see him on TV, he’s giving lots of props to the Yanks.

  • Monteroisdinero

    For what we are paying Freddy/Bartolo and Nova-we have gotten excellent returns. There are some huge contract pitchers out there who may be better but not much so far this year. Gotta be very happy if the old timers can give us a solid full year and Nova continues to improve. Nova could easily win 15 -16 games in his first full year-if he gets a full year.

  • Jimmy McNulty

    So Westbrook lost his no hitter…

  • mbonzo

    If you take out the Yankees spanking of Oakland where Hughes himself got spanked, he’s got a 3.17 ERA in 17 IP.

    • bonestock94

      None of his starts inspired confidence though. I was a big Hughes defender but I don’t see it anymore. Let’s hope he improves.

      • Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat

        He looked really good against Toronto. Other than that, he’s been bailed out by facing bad offenses.

    • The Big City of Dreams

      No disrespect but here we go again with Hughes. It’s always if you take out this start or take out this season or don’t count this stat but count these stats or his ceiling is high or this is still ST, etc. Not.saying you’re the only one that does it but I see it a lot. He hasn’t been good this season. Hopefully he improves though.

  • Kramerica Industries

    Gotta say that Texas did a pretty solid number this year. Uehara and Adams gives them a late inning ‘pen akin to what the Sox have with Bard/Paps, and what the Yankees have with DRob/Soriano/Mo.

    Whether their rotation will be solid come October is the biggest question mark with them. They have the offense and bullpen to beat the Yankees and/or Red Sox in a five or seven game series.

    And I don’t put much stock in the season series in this case. The Yankees/Rangers played all their games by the middle of June. The Rangers have been a much better ballclub since then. If they manage to gain home field for the AL playoffs, they’re going to be a really tough out.

  • Will (the other one)

    Man…Lance Berkman. If this is his dead-cat bounce year, it’s a hell of a bounce.

  • Tommy g

    Will Yanks consider Wandy when Waiver wire opens tomorrow ??

    • JobaWockeeZ

      They will but it depends on what they want to give up.

  • Slurve

    Would have liked to see the Yanks make a run at Harden after the deal with Bos fell through. I don’t have a problem with them not getting any of the other pitchers traded/rumored.

  • Andy

    So in all seriousness, why isn’t Montero up yet? I don’t get it. Second year in a row we didn’t improve our rotation because Yankees didn’t want to part with him, which seems silly to me, but in any event lets see what this kid can do. Dude is almost 22. What’s going on?

    • JobaWockeeZ

      Who knows.

    • bonestock94

      He’s been mediocre in AAA, maybe Yankees want him to earn the promotion.

      I think he should get a shot, Posada is useless at this point. At the same time I don’t know if I buy the “bored” narrative. Even if it’s true that’s bad form.

      • Rainbow Connection

        The “bored” narrative is an RAB thing.

        • Jim S

          The “bored” narrative is not an RAB thing. Mocking the bored narrative is an RAB thing. Apparently it all just went over your head.

    • Monteroisdinero

      He won”t be 22 until the end of November. He is the 3rd youngest player in AAA. Posada didn’t catch for us until he was 25/26. Look at the Yankee roster and see how many guys not named Jeter and ARod were playing in the majors/let alone playing well when they were 21 OR 22.

      Patience is hard.

      • Andy

        Yeah but isn’t he supposed to be this amazing top prospect like those guys? And if not, then why are the Yankees refusing to part with him? I don’t get the Montero obsession. Time to see what he can do.

        • Avi

          I agree with Andy. If Montero isn’t up ASAP i’m gonna be pissed. He’s had plenty of time in the minors to get his bat ready. And if he’s still not ready to catch he never will be.

          • Midland TX

            Go back and read the comment directly above yours, you know, the one that explains why you’re dead wrong and correctly advises, “Patience is hard.”

        • Rainbow Connection

          I don’t think the Yanks are refusing to part with him. They are refusing to part with him and a bunch of other pitchers for mediocre pitchers.

    • Hardy

      The Yankees are probably not sold on his catching skills. Therefore, they

      a) want him to continue his development by catching as much as possible in AAA, and

      b) don’t think he is a big upgrade over Cervelli.

      There might be other reasons like

      c) they don’t want to start his service time clock, or

      d) they think Montero should earn his promotion by dominating AAA, or

      e) their MLB pitchers are happy with Cervelli and they don’t want to tinker with a well working pitching staff.

  • Cy Pettitte

    Kerry Wood is awesome, too bad he didn’t wanna come back to NY at the deadline.

  • Erica

    Sweet Alfonso Soriano home run.

  • JobaWockeeZ

    Wow the Yanks were denied a shoulder MRI by the Rockies? Yeah I don’t care who you are but I’m not gambling on shoulders.

    • Rainbow Connection

      There wasn’t a deal in the first place. Why would they allow a physical if a deal isn’t even in place?

      • JobaWockeeZ

        So they can get a deal from the Yankees? Obviously shit’s going down if they aren’t letting the Yankees check his shoulder.

        • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

          Everyone does a post-deal physical. Asking for one before you even bid is . . . unsual, to say the least. If I was O’Dowd, I would decline that request as well. It would sound to me like the Yanks were going to use any sign of wear to haggle the price down. Frankly, if I was O’Dowd I would think they’re just screwing with me. Accounts have it that’s exactly what he thought.

          Maybe the Yankee concerns were legit, there are lots of people who have questions about Jimenez. Or maybe Cash was trying to find an excuse to NOT make a deal. In any case, the Yanks didn’t get the one pitcher who could have been an impact acquisition.