Open Thread: 601


(AP Photo/The Canadian Press, Darren Calabrese)

Mariano Rivera made history this afternoon, recording his 601st career save to tie Trevor Hoffman for the most in the baseball history. Every save he picks up from here on out will just add to the history, but like I’ve said before, Mo didn’t need the saves record to validate his position as the greatest reliever of all-time.

After the game, commenter Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat did some research and dug up the winning pitcher for each of Mo’s milestone saves…

1Andy Pettitte
100 – Orlando Hernandez
200 – Sterling Hitchcock
300Javy Vazquez
400 – Jaret Wright
479 – Phil Coke (passed Lee Smith for second place on the all-time saves list)
500Chien-Ming Wang
600A.J. Burnett
601 – Aaron Laffey

I’ll add one more to the list, number 225. That was another El Duque win, and it moved Mo past Dave Righetti for the most saves in team history. Who’s  going to be number 602? I honestly hope it’s not Freddy Garcia, he’s starting tomorrow and I want to see Mo get the record at home. So let’s hope for a blowout win on Sunday and then a save situation sometime next week.

Anyways, here is tonight’s open thread. There’s a ton of college football on, plus MLB Network will be airing a game (teams depend on where you live). You can talk about that, Mo’s awesomeness, or anything else you want. Have at it.

Categories : Open Thread


  1. I Collect Brett Gardner Cards says:

    If the yanks win the next two and Boston loses today as well as tomorrow, I’ll feel more confident in the crown being wrapped up.
    That’ll be 6 up with 10 to play.

  2. Jesse says:

    Mo is the best ever.

    That is all.

  3. I Collect Brett Gardner Cards says:

    Oh and Mo, congrats.

    Hey, do you guys think he will retire for good after next year? almost a given right? Tho i CAN see him signing a one year deal, but thats it, and that would be surprising.

  4. Tyrion Lannister says:

    Mo is still at the top of his game and will come back. As for #602, it really needs to be caught by Jorgie. Girardi should know that the two have played together for 15 years and the majority of Mo’s saves were caught by Jorgie. Posada likely won’t have a role in the postseason so it’s only right to give him one last hurrah with his friend at Yankee Stadium.

    • Kevin says:

      As cold as it sounds,we’re trying to win games, not be sentimental. Someone who can’t hold baserunners shouldn’t be behind the dish.

    • Pat D says:

      Posada can’t even be counted to run to first base on groundballs he hits, so let’s just stop this nonsense.

    • Kiko Jones says:

      Agreed, TL. Mo would be coming in just for an inning to get save no. 602, so why not bring out Jorge to catch? What’s the big drawback? Especially if it were to happen in the Bronx. Call me a sentimental fool but I’m down w/ Sado behind the dish for that one. (And their teammates would be into it I’m sure; did you see the grin on Tex’s face when Jorge came in to catch in Anaheim?)

  5. Craig says:

    I got game 2 tickets for the ALDS- what time does everyone here think it will start? and how do I get to the stadium via subway? I get off at Penn Station and then……?

  6. Jesse says:

    I have a really random question. The Tigers are supposedly 72-0 when leading after 7 innings. Is there a way to find out the records for all the other teams regarding that stat? Does baseball reference have something like that?

  7. Jesse says:

    They did not just bring up Dave Roberts in this game….

    • Midland TX says:

      Seriously. If I were to try to explain it away, I would point out that McCarver sounds like an Alzheimer’s patient. He may genuinely have forgotten what year it is.

      He also blathered about how nobody shortens games like the Braves, on the day Mo ties the all-time record for saves and the bullpen throws five innings of no-hit relief.

      • Jesse says:

        Yeah I heard that gem too. My God what a senile old fool.

        • Januz says:

          When Fox is doing a Yankee Game with McCarver, and you get the unpleasant choice of listening to him or Sterling and Waldman, that option is almost as bad as picking dental pain or root canal. I wish Fox would do what ESPN did with Sunday Night Baseball (Replacing Miller & Morgan), it has become exponentially better.

          • Freddy Garcia's 86 mph Heat says:

            Miller and Morgan >> the current ESPN Sunday night booth. I’m sorry, but that booth is about as bad as it gets.

          • Kramerica Industries says:

            ESPN is not any better now than they were with Miller and Morgan.

            Valentine and Orel are simply awful with real-time game analysis. Shulman is the only good thing and he’s wasted in that role.

  8. Sweet Dick Willie says:

    How great would it be if Valverde finished the season perfect (he’s 45 for 45 so far) and then blows a game in the play-offs to send the Tigers home.

  9. BK2ATL says:

    And Tampa does some more of our dirty work for us. Always the sweetest words “Red Sox lose” again!!!

  10. Craig says:

    I have to do a 5 min speech on the proposed added wildcard and realignment. Anyone know any good sources where I can find time consuming info?

  11. Pat D says:

    Playoff Magic Number: 5
    Division Magic Number: 8
    HFA Magic Number: 8

    • Tyrion Lannister says:

      And hopefully we can push those numbers to 4, 6, and 7 tomorrow. I’d like to see the Rays win again and they should with Price v. Wakefield. I don’t want to face Detroit in the 1st round so they need to start winning again.

    • tom says:

      Is that 8 or 9 for the division? I thought it was 8 to tie, but a tie’s a loss (i.e., the wild card) for the Yankees.

      In any case, what looked like a crap day around the 4th inning in Toronto has turned out pretty sweet. This team stands an excellent chance of doing what no one at ESPN — and, honestly, few among even my devoted fan friends — thought possible in April: win the division,

      • tom says:

        Retract my math. I forgot to add in the Yanks’ win today. 8 it is. Huzzah.

      • CS Yankee says:

        You need more positive thinking freinds.

        • tom says:

          I’m talking about friends who (like me) have been Yankee fans well longer than most here have been alive. One of them actually suggested we might be in for a replay of 1965 (letting the roster get too old and not coming up with adequate replacements).

          I wasn’t in their category, but, the way I saw it, we went into the off-season looking for a new super-pitcher (Lee). Not only did we not get him, we lost Pettitte, then Hughes almost immediately, and Joba not long after that. Add in Arod’s absentee-ism and Posada’s close-to-total decline, I think it’s prett damn amazing to be looking at a record of probably 95-100 wins.

          • Jorge says:

            It’s a very different sport, and different franchise, than it was in the 60′s, 70′s, or 80′s.

            I do wonder how the middle part of the last decade resembled the 80′s in many ways, except that those 80′s teams never got the chance to fight for a Wild Card spot.

      • Pat D says:

        It’s 8 because the Yankees have 91 wins and the Red Sox have 64 losses. So if the Yankees won 8 more games, they’d have 99 wins and the Red Sox would not be able to match that.

        • CS Yankee says:

          Since the Bosox have more than 62 losses (making it impossible to win 100 games), will they get to play a few more games?

          A 170 game regular season should be enough for them even with the way they are playing.

          • Pat D says:

            I’ve heard from reliable sources that Epstein and Henry petitioned to have this pushed through right away, but the rest of the ML teams who aren’t going to the playoffs told them to piss off.

      • I think 7 would be to tie.

  12. Cuso says:

    I got a feeling Colon is headed to the pen after the Yanks get clear of the double-header

    • Phife Dawg says:

      Not sure if serious…

    • Jesse says:

      Wouldn’t be surprised.

    • mbonzo says:

      Was thinking this after todays game. He seems to have the most declining stuff of the rotation, so maybe a move to the bullpen will help that 2 seamer.

    • well you know says:

      There are twelve games remaining in eleven days. These are the possibilities:

      1. Each member of the six man, including Colon, starts two of the twelve games.

      2. Freddy Garcia, who starts tomorrow, starts three games (including the last game of the year) and one of the other five starters only starts once.

      3. Someone not in the current six man gets a start.

      If it was someone other than Garcia who might get the extra start, maybe Colon gets bumped. But Freddy hasn’t been all that great himself the last two starts.

      If they clinch early, they could play around with things, but, in that event, they are just as likely to want to see what Colon has.

  13. Januz says:

    Mike do you have an opinion on Pitt and Syracuse going to the ACC? I really wanted to see the Panthers in the Big 10 (The Nitts really need to have a hated rival, like the Red Sox, Ravens or Rangers (I am a Yankee, Steeler and Islander fan) (I don’t care for Ohio State, but we will never be enemy #1 for OSU))? In my humble opinion with the execption of the inability for PSU to recruit great hoops players in Philadelphia (Maybe Chambers can change that?)the worst thing about PSU in the Big 10 is no major rival.

    • Mike Axisa says:

      I don’t, at all. Not all that big into college sports.

    • Phife Dawg says:

      Here’s a good article on why the move sucks for Pitt and Syracuse:

      The move is going to seriously affect the Non-BCS football schools in the Big East: Seton Hall, St. Johns, Georgetown, DePaul, and Providence.

      The Big East as we now know it may cease to exist in a few years. It’s a damn shame.

      • Januz says:

        To be honest DePaul & Seton Hall don’t matter (Don’t forget Villanova being hurt either). I really think it is a bad move for Pitt and the Cuse, and will hurt their overall programs (I think of Boston College who went from a 7-9 win team in football, and 17-21 in hoops, to a team that MIGHT win 2 games this year (Losing to DUKE at home 20-19). I know Jim Boeheim is not a happy man today (He wanted to stay in the Big East).

  14. BK2ATL says:

    Just checked the standings. It’s funny how Detroit is getting all of this press and hype. They are the only team in their division with a winning record.

    Only the Baltimore Orioles in the AL East have a losing record, but as everyone’s seeing, they are no pushovers. They’d do a lot better in any other division.

    Just saying, slow down on Detroit. I know they have Verlander and Cabrera, but should the rest of the squad scare anyone???

    • Jesus Freak says:

      And their record is 42-43 outside of the central division.

    • Jesse says:

      Honestly, I think they have a legit shot to win the whole thing. Doug Fister is probably one of the best #2 starters in the AL, and Victor Martinez is very, very good along with Cabrera. They also have Joaquin Benoit setting up Valverde. The Tigers are also 72-0 when leading after 7 innings.

      • BK2ATL says:

        I hear what you’re saying, and I know there are other pieces to the mix, but do they or should they scare anyone?

        I know that Martinez is a quality bat, and Benoit is having a good year, but I’ll reserve judgement on Fister for now. I’m not sold on him being “one of the best #2 starters in the AL” just yet. That like saying Ivan Nova is one.

        Besides the exploits of Verlander and Cabrera, DET is only in the conversation because they play the likes of CLE, CHW, MIN and KC in multiple series this year. Even Texas at least has a muse in the Angels this year. 72-0 is certainly impressive, but again you must also include the aforementioned regular competition into that number.

        They are in the postseason already, so that’s neither here of there. But there are plenty of holes to exploit after Verlander and Cabrera. If our team shows up, HFA or not, we should beat this team pretty handily, if our manager doesn’t get out-managed too badly by Leyland.

        Texas….they are a wild card. They have true offense and bullpen. Their starting pitching has the potential, but can be wild as well. Just depends on the day.

      • BK2ATL says:

        I hear what you’re saying, and I know there are other pieces to the mix, but do they or should they scare anyone?

        I know that Martinez is a quality bat, and Benoit is having a good year, but I’ll reserve judgement on Fister for now. I’m not sold on him being “one of the best #2 starters in the AL” just yet. That like saying Ivan Nova is one.

        Besides the exploits of Verlander and Cabrera, DET is only in the conversation because they play the likes of CLE, CHW, MIN and KC in multiple series this year. Even Texas at least has a muse in the Angels this year. 72-0 is certainly impressive, but again you must also include the aforementioned regular competition into that number.

        They are in the postseason already, so that’s neither here nor there. But there are plenty of holes to exploit after Verlander and Cabrera. If our team shows up, HFA or not, we should beat this team pretty handily, if our manager doesn’t get out-managed too badly by Leyland.

        Texas….they are a wild card. They have true offense and bullpen. Their starting pitching has the potential, but can be wild as well. Just depends on the day.

    • Kramerica Industries says:

      Verlander plays a huge role in all of that.

      And, honestly, it’s warranted. The Tigers should be favored in every game he starts, and if all were to go to plan as a result, the Tigers only need a couple wins from the Scherzer/Fister/Penny trio to advance to the next round.

      Overall, they aren’t the best team in the AL. Come post-season time, depth falls by the wayside by a good margin.

    • Brian S. says:

      Yeah they should scare a lot of people. Cabrera (171 wRC+) and Avila (145 wRC+) should each finish in the top ten in the MVP vote. Peralta (124 wRC+) and Martinez (127 wRC+) are fantastic hitters. Betemit, Boesch, Young, and Wells are all above average hitters. Verlander and Fister are top of the rotation starters that can shut down anybody. Benoit, Alburquerque, and Valverde make for an above average back end to a bullpen. Their defense sucks. But overall they have one of the more well rounded teams in all of baseball.

  15. Pat D says:

    Sooner or later, at this rate, there won’t be any more conferences in the NCAA.

    I don’t know why those two schools want to go to the ACC. Their football programs are basically meh and shit, respectively. And they’ll find the ACC to be a different beast than the Big East. I’m sure they’ll find recruiting a little tougher.

    I don’t care if anything happens to the Big East. It’s become so overbloated as it is. TCU joins next year, and supposedly Baylor and Iowa State are reaching out to them in preparation for the Big 12 collapsing. None of those schools are going to do much for the Big East.

    • Tyrion Lannister says:

      There will be 4 super conferences- SEC, Pac 12, Big 10, ACC. Why did Nebraska and A&M leave the Big 12? Was it because Texas got their own network? I guess it’s deemed an unfair advantage in recruiting but if so I’m not sure why they were allowed to have it.

      • Januz says:

        Texas has the Longhorn Network because they essentially rule the Big XII, and have a number of pissant enabling schools like Baylor, Iowa State & Kensas State who let them. Nebraska was run roughshod by Texas when it came to major issues such voting 11-1 to move the Conference HQ from Kansas City to Dallas (Guess who the one vote who wanted to stay in KC? Yep Nebraska). A&M, simply had enough of being the Longhorn’s “Little Brother”, sort of like being the Islanders to the Rangers (Although the Islanders do have the 4 Stanley Cups).

        • Jimmy McNulty says:

          No, the other teams are pissed that Texas isn’t doing enough to negotiate big TV contracts for the Big 12. Nebraska wanted to be on TV more often and the Big 10 would do that for them, Texas didn’t give a shit what happened to them since they had their own channel.

      • Jimmy McNulty says:

        It’s Texas, they already have an unfair recruiting advantage because they’re Texas. The network pissed off the Big 12 because since Texas had their own TV network there was little incentive to use their leverage and huge fan base negotiate lucrative TV contracts for the rest of the conference. So basically everyone has sand in the vagina over money.

    • Januz says:

      I don’t think TCU will be coming. It is entirely possible they (along with SMU & BYU) might go to the Big XII, which might be enough to keep Oklahoma & Texas. This would actually work out extremely well for TCU.

      • Jimmy McNulty says:

        Baylor didn’t want TCU in there, another Texas school to compete with in recruiting in the Big 12. When Colorado and Nebraska left I wanted them to replace them with Boise and TCU, but Baylor still has some weight to throw around. BYU would be interesting…not sure how that would work out. They need a good school in the Big 12 North to deal with.

  16. Jesus Freak says:

    Move over 1998 Yankees, the Sox are 4-12 in September.

    Why it was just a couple of months ago when the MSM crowned them teh greatest team ever assembled.

  17. ben says:

    I think Joe should catch mo. He was catching for his first save!!! Right?

  18. Monteroisdinero says:

    Couldn’t see the game today but was curious as to what the counts and pitch type were for Arod’s HR and Montero’s hit (and where they went). Thanks anyone.

  19. Jimmy McNulty says:

    Holy Shit, I’d be surprised if that FSU receiver has normal brain function ever again.

  20. TomH says:

    Hey, tom, about your elderly friend who’s afraid of a 1965 return. He’s being prudent. The Yankee brass had stopped running scared some time in the late 1950s/early 1960s. They used to talk in those days about Stengel’s habit, in the dugout, of “running scared”: say the Yanks were playing Washington–score 8-0, 7th inning. Stengel would pace back and forth in the dugout, pounding his fist into his other hand and muttering, “Don’t let ‘em up, don’t let ‘em up.” It was the attitude of Ed Barrow in the 1920s and 30s and continued by George Weiss in the 40s and 50s. Weiss got eased out around the time Stengel did. The gas pedal on the minors was relaxed a bit, and little by little the team begin to show signs of age. It was Bill Veeck, a big mover and shaker of the time, who wrote an article somewhere after the 1964 Series, noting that this was the 3rd WS the Yanks had lost in 5 years, unthinkable for Weiss and Barrow.

    No new Mantle was in the pipeline, or Ford. 1965 was every Yankee fans nightmare–until they finished LAST in 1966.

    Yep, Arod and Jeter are old, so’s Posada, Pettitte is history. We’ll see whether Granderson is a repeater and whether Montero can really hit next year. The present staff is shaky, as we can readily see. Yep, there’s guys down in the bushes like Manuelos and Betances. Are they Ruffing’s? Ford’s? Raschi’s? Guidry’s? Beats me. We don’t know yet. But I remember 1965 very well, and guys like me are like Depression fathers/grandfathers. You’ve heard about them, all through the boom years of the 1980s, 90s, etc., always going on and on about “Once upon a time, the bottom dropped out.” Young guys with MBA’s, bored by these tiresome peddlers of memories, always have to set them right, push them into a corner, and tell them the Past is past. We got it all figured out now.

    • Grit for Brains says:

      Robinson Cano is one of the ten (or less) best players in the American League having him around shouldn’t hurt.

      • Bill says:

        He’s definitely a top 10 player in the league, maybe even in baseball. No second baseman has matched his production the past 2 years, and his defense is very good.

        • JobaWockeeZ says:

          See: Pedroia, Dustin.

          • Bill says:

            Cano’s numbers were very good last year and he finished 3rd in the MVP voting, while Pedroia missed a lot of 2010 with injury. This year, he has the edge over Pedroia in BA, HR, and RBI. No second baseman has matched Cano’s production over the past 2 years.

          • bexarama says:

            No second baseman has matched his production the past 2 years

            Still not Pedroia.

            • Bill says:

              I must have forgotten to take into consideration the enormous edge Pedroia has over Cano in the GRIT factor. It’s really not even close …

              • JobaWockeeZ says:

                See this is what I mean. Yeah trust me I hated the fucking grit narrative. A lot actually. It’s annoying. But an argument can be made the Pedroia can match Cano but since it’s pro-Red Sox we throw away the metrics that we use so frequently.

                I mean I overdosed on doing that for years so I can’t really talk but still an argument can be made.

            • JobaWockeeZ says:

              Pedroia: 11.1 fWAR
              Cano: 12.1 fWAR

              Okay he didn’t match up exactly but he’s pretty effing close.

              • JobaWockeeZ says:

                I can’t add, Pedroia has a 10.7 WAR. It’s still not a omfgwtfbbq rapestomp in Cano’s favor.

                • bexarama says:

                  It’s not. I still feel comfortable saying over the past two years he’s been the best second baseman in the game. It’s not an omgwtfbbq rapestomp to quote you, and yes health hurt Pedroia (health still counts though, you gotta be on the field), but can we agree on that?

                  (especially if you’re using fWAR, where UZR hates Cano and every other metric seems to like him a lot.)

                  • JobaWockeeZ says:

                    I would take Cano any day of the week. I don’t think there is a wrong answer between the two unlike what the OP said. You can go either way. I’m nitpicking but still.

                • Bill says:

                  I never really said it was. I know Pedroia is a very good player. I give that to him, even though I can’t stand him. I know it’s pretty close, but Cano still comes out on top.

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      At the end of 2013 Cash has 40 million to play with if I calculated it correctly assuming that Granderson gets a 20 million AAV contract, Swish with a 18 million AAV contract and CC with a 25 million AAV contract.

      But with that 40 million he has 3 rotation spots to fill and each part of the bullpen minus Soriano to fix.

    • BK2ATL says:

      I can see some of the point of the fear. I have an uneasy feeling with some of the decisions regarding continuity. As a for instance, the decisions to keep rolling the Laffeys and Proctors out there.

      I really don’t understand the point of coddling these so-called prospects, calling them up this month, then not giving them a chance to show anything, then in March, expecting to know anything new about them. Montero should have been a guide on how to spark up the team. Just needed a youth injection.

      This is why we’ll end up in the annual free agency conversations, when we should be rebuilding an old and frail ship internally. Brandon Laird should’ve gotten more of a look when A-Rod went down. Not saying that he would’ve been great, but at least you’d know what he is in MLB firsthand. I’m guessing we’ll be in the market again for a utility player. Montero finally gets the opportunity to hit MLB pitching, and we still have very little idea whether he can catch, even though our starting and backup catchers are pretty banged-up. Nunez has shown that he’s not very good defensively, as a replacement for Jeter. Betances and Brackman are wasting away in the bullpen….

      Even if we were planning to use them in trade to attempt to bring back something younger and substantial, we have no idea what they can do in MLB to get a true sense of their value and talent. And neither do other GMs, so it appears to us fans as if they are charging us a premium.

      It’s not like we don’t know that we’ll need to replace Pettitte eventually. So far, nothing.

      We will have to replace Posada. Martin appears to be pretty good defensively, but offensively not close in production. People on this site forget how great of an offensive weapon he was and still can be in spurts, but it’s just about over for him.

      Jeter and A-Rod will need to be replaced in the coming years. What’s the plan?

      Colon and Garcia are stopgaps. What’s the plan for the future? Banuelos, Betances, Noesi, Kontos, Warren, still Brackman? Then what’s the holdup?

      Last but certainly not least, Mariano is 41. How much longer will we have him around to bailout our bullpen-overmanaging manager??? What’s the plan? Soriano? Robertson?

      Yes, we are in 1st place currently. Yes, we do have Cano, Granderson, Robertson, Nova and Gardner as some great younger pieces moving forward, but I can see how a dropoff could happen in the near future. Complacency and fatcat syndrome. Father time waits for no man.

      2011 might need to be the year we really win it all. Because if not, it’s possible that we don’t see winning at this level again for a while.

      • JobaWockeeZ says:

        I really don’t understand the point of coddling these so-called prospects, calling them up this month, then not giving them a chance to show anything, then in March, expecting to know anything new about them

        Because hopefully Cashman realized that since IPK, Hughes and Joba were thrown into the fire and didn’t have enough time to develop that the chance of failure was high. Banuelos and Betances both have walking problems and calling them up now would end up in a total failure. I do think Montero needs to catch but this is Girardi’s love of catcher defense.

        Jeter is here until 2014, regardless if he sucks or not. ARod is here for like, ever.

        I agree that the pitching situation will be scary. I think they overpay for Wilson though. If it keeps Jesus however I’m fine with it.

  21. Jimmy McNulty says:

    For those of you that watched the whole thing today, how did Romine look behind the plate?

  22. Jimmy McNulty says:

    I’m reading for my Trademark’s class tomorrow, and Maryland Stadium Authority v. Becker is an awesome case (36 F.3d 1093 for you law school nerds) the judge that wrote the case is a total baseball fan.

  23. JobaWockeeZ says:

    If the Yankees are guaranteed the playoffs, would you accept a sweep by the hands of the Rays so the Sox don’t advance?

    Even though the Rays are scary and are hot, I say yes just for the lol factor.

  24. Bill says:

    I think the Phillies are the best team in baseball by far. They are this year what the Yankees were in 2009. I think it’s gonna be hard to beat them in a series. If the Yankees are gonna win the World Series this year, they are going to have to really earn it.

    • Brian S. says:

      2009 Yankees team wRC+: 118
      2011 Phillies team wRC+: 96

      This Phillies team may have three aces in their rotation but they cannot hit nearly as well as the champions of 2009.

    • Karl Krawfid says:

      The NL East is weak shit imo

      • Bill says:

        The NL East is not the best division, but I wouldn’t consider it weak. The Braves are always good and the Nationals are getting better. And I’m mostly referring to their set up for a short series. Halladay, Lee, Hamels, and Oswalt is as formidable as it gets. I would think the Yankees, or any team for that matter, would struggle mightily to score runs in a series against those guys.

    • ROBTEN says:

      Whatever the merits of the Phillies’ pitching staff, before today’s games because of the strength of the AL (and the AL East in particular) the Yankees have played almost half of their games against teams >.500 record (46%), while the Phillies have played only 34% of their games against teams with a >.500 record. They’ve played 20 more games than the Yankees against teams with a below .500 record. [Meanwhile, their respective pythags have them only two games apart, again before today's games.]

      • Bill says:

        Say the Yankees play the Phillies in the World Series. The first game would be Halladay vs. Sabathia, and the second game would be Lee vs. god knows who. Given the Yankees past struggles against these two pitchers, and the fact that the Phillies will have home field advantage, the Yankees could easily be down 2-0 to start the series. Then you got Hamels pitching Game 3.

        • Freddy Garcia's 86 mph Heat says:

          Or they could be 1-1 going into Yankee Stadium because CC is pretty damn good too.

          • Jimmy McNulty says:

            Yeah, but both Halladay and Cliff Lee are probably better pitchers at this point, granted the only real hitter CC has to deal with is Shane VIctorino, but still. Yes, yes, I know Chase Utley is awesome when healthy…I don’t think he’s all the way back yet.

            • Freddy Garcia's 86 mph Heat says:

              I think the differences in the 2 offenses will be huge. I bet CC would have Halladay numbers if he pitched in the NL, he did when he was with Milwaukee.

              • Bill says:

                Halladay had great numbers in the AL too, and against the Yankees.

                • Freddy Garcia's 86 mph Heat says:

                  True, but he has a 4.20 ERA against the AL since going to the Phillies including 5.2IP 7R against the Red Sox and 6IP 6R against the Yankees.

                  • JobaWockeeZ says:

                    You know better than to use short samples as if they mean anything.

                    • Freddy Garcia's 86 mph Heat says:

                      Just pointing out that he has been below average against the AL since going to the NL that’s all. I think it’s fait to expect a difference in performance against better offenses if you get accustomed to facing weaker hitting teams in the NL.

                  • Bill says:

                    I don’t remember the Yankees playing the Phillies last year. I could be wrong tho.

                    • Mike Axisa says:

                      I was at that game against Halladay last year, they definitely played. That was the series they got shut down by Kyle Kendrick and Jamie Moyer.hey got shut down by Kyle Kendrick and Jamie Moyer.

                    • Bill says:

                      I remember now. Didn’t Gardner hit a gradslam off of Halladay that game? I remember a game that Halladay was pitching and Gardner came up with the bases loaded and I called a grand slam and it happened. I shit you not. I’m not sure if it was last year, tho. It might’ve been 2009.

                    • Freddy Garcia's 86 mph Heat says:

                      Gardner hit his grand slam against Ricky Romero.

                    • Bill says:

                      Thanks. The memory was foggy, as you can see.

                  • bexarama says:

                    That was one time each over a year ago.

              • JobaWockeeZ says:

                Halladay bitched slapped the AL East but unlike CC, he had to face the Red Sox and the mid 2000 Yankees who were what, a 950 run team?

          • JobaWockeeZ says:

            There’s only one pitcher as consistent and as dominant as Halladay and that’s Lincecum. It’s not an instant loss but Halladay has been the best int he game for years.

        • Sweet Dick Willie says:

          Or, the Yanks could win Game 1, 1-0, and then pound Lee (which they’ve done before) in Game 2, and be up 2-0 to start the Series.


          • Jimmy McNulty says:

            The Giants might also win the NL West.

          • JobaWockeeZ says:

            It’s funny how when predicting a future matchup people will turn to the outlier if it’s a positive and ignore the negative. Not accusing you of this but here’s a common argument I’ve seen.

            Perosn A: I’m scared of Verlander in a 5 game series.
            Person B: We murdered Verlander twice in 2011 so don’t be scared.

            But in the opposite…
            Person A: The Red Sox murdered CC in almost every 2011 start so therefore they will do it again.
            Person B: It’s only 4 or 5 games, pitching is volatile, we can’t predict it. Anything can happen.

            I’m not saying anyone is wrong here but I find it funny.

            • Bill says:

              I see this too. Personally, I try to weigh the possible positive and negative before I make a prediction.

            • bexarama says:

              People tend to be optimistic about their team. You see this everywhere. Let’s kill ‘em for it.

              • JobaWockeeZ says:

                And the ironic thing is that person B gets trolled at, laughed at, mimicked at, and insulted at for doing the other side of the coin.

                I could care less if you’re optimistic but it’s funny when they get pissed at people using the same logic but in the other extremity.

                • JobaWockeeZ says:

                  And the last line you used is proof that if you’re not on the optimist only side then fuck off arguments be damned.

                  I mean yeah I understand the frustration towards the naysayers but more often than not they have some sort of argument that gets ignored because it’s not optimistic enough.

                  • bexarama says:

                    I get what you’re saying, I just think some people do come here like Oop! People are too optimistic! Time to rain on their parade. I never thought this Yankee team would win the division against this Red Sox team, but then I got called a sunshine soldier and all kinds of shit for not thinking they were like ten games worse.

                    I dunno. I guess I just understand people being optimistic about their team – any team, but especially a team that’s pretty consistently good like the Yankees. If you wanna be negative, I’m not gonna kill you for it, but I just… I guess I don’t quite get it.

                    * Not you personally.

                    • JobaWockeeZ says:

                      No I come off as a dick and a pessimist mainly because the optimism is pretty much accounted for. Since I don’t know what I’m talking about I’d say I’m on the right side.

    • Jerome S says:

      Phillies: fantastic rotation, below average offense, awful bullpen.

      Yankees: Fantastic offense, fantastic bullpen, above-average rotation.

      I’ll take the more well-rounded team than the one will all their eggs in one basket.

      • Bill says:

        I wouldn’t consider the Phillies bullpen to be awful. Bastardo has been one of the best relievers in the game this year, and Madson is good. And the Phillies’ bullpen concerns are considerably lessened when you have 3 aces who go 9 regularly, and have done it in the postseason (against the Yankees too)

      • bexarama says:

        The Phillies do not have an awful bullpen at all and their offense is just fine. They’re plenty well-rounded. If you want a team with all its eggs in one basket, that’s the Giants.

        • Jerome S says:

          [forgets narrative, checks numbers]

          Okay, I fudged that. Like, a lot little.

          The offense is definitely below average for the year, though now with Utley and everyone healthy it’s probably average.
          The bullpen’s not awful, but it’s shakier than many.
          The Phillies are a really, really good team. I whole-heartedly believe that the Yankees (and, until the last two weeks, the Red Sox)are a clear cut above the Phillies.

          • bexarama says:

            I whole-heartedly believe that the Yankees (and, until the last two weeks, the Red Sox)are a clear cut above the Phillies.

            If the Yankees and Phillies meet up in the World Series, well hey, I’ll hope to heck you’re right (and even if you’re not, that they can pull it out). I just don’t see it, personally, especially not the clear cut part.

          • FIPster Doofus says:

            Clear cut? No chance.

  25. Bill says:

    I would like to see Hughes removed from the rotation. He’s going to the bullpen in the postseason anyway, why not jumpstart that process? Plus he’s already getting skipped due to back spasms. This would lower the rotation to 5, and finally put an end to the failed 6-man rotation experiment. This way Sabathia can go back to regular rest, with which he’s most comfortable, as he has been saying the past month or so, and the numbers back that up.

    • Rey22 says:

      Actually, CC asked Girardi for an extra day of rest about last week I believe.

      • Bill says:

        Before that, I remember CC made some comments that would suggest that he wants to go on regular rest. And the numbers show that he is a better pitcher when starting on normal rest.

        • BK2ATL says:

          He’s been pretty inconsistent since this 6-man-rotation-to-appease-AJ-nonsense that Girardi’s been rolling out. I don’t know what the numbers are, but he certainly hasn’t been as dominant since this crap started. While in the past, he’s been a strong 2nd half pitcher when given the ball every 5 days.

          • Bill says:

            Exactly my point. Whatever positives you’re getting from the 6-man rotation are by far outweighed by the negatives of adversely affecting Sabathia.

            • BK2ATL says:

              You gotta put that one squarely on the manager.

              The ace has previously said that it screws him up, and true to form, it did. AJ’s gonna be what he is, no matter what you do to tinker with him. Then you decide that it’s in the best interest to screw with your ace too??? CC was pitching Cy Young-like ball, before this 6-man crap.

              We’re surviving it, but not the best decision-making coming out of our dugout.

  26. Tyrion Lannister says:

    From Lohud- Did Joe Girardi consider sending Jorge Posada out to catch Rivera’s record-tying save? Would he consider it for the record-breaker?

    “You think about it,” Girardi said. “We’ve got a one-run game there, and Jorge’s only caught six innings this year. We’ll see.”

    This makes me think Joe will send Jorgie out there to catch Mo’s 602nd which is the right thing to do. Best case scenario is it comes with a 3 run lead and with the WC already secure.

  27. Reggie C. says:

    I know we got a couple vet FF players on this board even at this hour. I need help with who to start at qb: Matt Ryan or Ryan Fitzpatrick.

    Ryan squaring off against the Philly D has me worried. A second bad game from Ryan could contribute to a 0-2 start in my league. ATL plays much better at home so i’m undecided. Ironically enough, Fitzpatrick is going against OAK, which no longer has Nnamdi.

    Is Fitz the better play in week 2?

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      I’m not even close to being an expert but Ryan has Julio, White, Gonzalez and Turner. Yeah the Bears killed them but their home now. Of course Philly has those corners so Turner is gonna get a lot of carries.

      Fitzpatrick sucks doesn’t he? I mean he has Calvin Johnson but can’t do anything. Your call but I’m leaning to Ryan.

      • Jimmy McNulty says:

        Fitzpatrick doesn’t have Calvin Johnson, Matthew Stafford has Calvin Johnson. Fitzpatrick’s best WR is Steve Johnson, he isn’t bad…but he’s not Megatron. Fitzpatrick is okay, though. He’s probably a capable starting NFL QB, but just about any team that’s good enough for him to succeed on probably wants to do better at QB. Me personally, I’d go with the better player, which is Ryan. Philly’s going to score a lot and that means lots of passing from Ryan.

      • FIPster Doofus says:

        Fitzpatrick doesn’t suck.

    • Brian S. says:

      I have Matt Ryan as well, you can’t give up on him after a bad week. I myself am having fits on whether to start Brandon Lloyd (who is questionable with a groin injury), Mohammed Massaquoi who is facing a bad Colts team, or Pierre Garcon who has to put up with Kerry Collins as his QB.

      • Brian S. says:

        Obvious Lloyd is the best choice when healthy but I don’t know if he will be…

        • Plus, the Broncos will be without Moreno in this game, so I’d expect them to throw a lot more.

          • Jimmy McNulty says:

            TEBOW TEBOW TEBOW TEBOW!!!!!!

            Lloyd isn’t a bad play, he was Orton’s security blanket most of last year, and there’s no reason why he shouldn’t have a better game than the other guys you listed.

            • Brian S. says:

              Even though he is questionable? He was limited in practice on Friday.

              • Jimmy McNulty says:

                Kerry Collins is pretty terrible and I’m still not the biggest Colt McCoy fan. Massoquoi is an acceptable substitute, I guess, but mainly because Lloyd is hurt and the Colts are absolutely terrible. Though I don’t see why Peyton Hillis won’t just leave cleat marks all over everyone’s jersey.

      • Reggie C. says:

        Ehh. Brandon Lloyd is the best play if those are your alternatives. Orton can and will get the ball to Lloyd, even if he’s alittle banged up.

  28. I live an hour from Buffalo and am a big Bills fan. Fitz is no Matt Ryan, but at least for this week, he’s a safer play. He’s facing a much weaker team and has Stevie Johnson to throw to along with Chandler, Jackson, Spiller, and an underrated young receiving corps.

  29. bexarama says:

    The Phillies are pretty clearly the best team in baseball. I don’t care that they play in the NL East, it’s not like that’s a truly embarrassing division, and there’s not much you can say to convince me otherwise. Then again, I thought this last year, but this year they’re even better. Like last year it was Phillies, but then there were a bunch of other very good teams. This year it’s kinda Phillies… and everyone else.

    Are they unbeatable? No, no one is. But sometimes a team is just pretty clearly better than the rest of the teams in baseball. They’re gonna win like 105 games. I hope to goodness someone like Milwaukee or Arizona knocks them out so if the Yankees get to the World Series they don’t have to deal with Philadelphia.

    As for the best team in the AL… I don’t know. The Yankees and Red Sox are both beat up everywhere, and neither had super fantastic awesome rotations to begin with and they’re not pitching well even for them. The Tigers look great, but they’ve been facing bottom feeders for like a month now, though I still think they’re dangerous. Texas is so streaky, and their rotation doesn’t seem quite World Series-ish at all, but they’ve got a hell of an offense and CJ Wilson is really good, just the rest of their rotation is such a wild card.


    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      The only thing I disagree with is that you called it a tl;dr.

    • Karl Krawfid says:

      Sorry I disagree.

      In a short series, Roy/Cliff/Hamels should do a lot of damage.

      Over 162? Not clearly the best team in baseball.

      • bexarama says:

        Over 162? Not clearly the best team in baseball.

        Not trying to start an argument here, just saying how can you argue anything but that they are the best team in baseball using the regular season? Like I said, they’re gonna win 105+ games, and it’s not like they’re in some totally embarrassing division…

        • Karl Krawfid says:

          Um I think they are in a embarrassing division.

          Outside of the Braves, who can barely hit, it’s smooth sailing.

          Mets/Marlins/Nats I mean come on.

          The AL East has 6 legit MVP candidates. 3 90 win teams most likely.

          The NL East might have 3 teams that won’t win 80.

          • bexarama says:

            The Braves are one of the better teams in the NL – the Rays can’t really hit either – and the Mets can hit (or could before injuryapalooza hit them, as ever) and the Nats can pitch now. No, it’s not the AL East, but what is? It’s not embarrassing like the Central divisions. Even if it was, winning a bazillion games there has to count for something.

            • mbonzo says:

              There is no way the NL East is embarrassing, its probably the best offensive NL league, which says something about the Phillies’ pitching. At the same time, the AL East is far beyond it. The Braves don’t compare to the Red Sox, and they might not be as good as the Rays.

    • bexarama says:

      Errr, that sounds really gloomy about the Yankees and Red Sox. They have ridiculous offense for this environment and definitely enough pitching to get by. They are both very good teams. Sabathia needs to be Sabathia and Lester needs to be Lester for the playoffs, though.

      I guess I should put in the Rays too; I’d feel better about their playoff chances if Boston didn’t have SEVEN left with the Orioles. They remind me of the Giants. Great pitching, little offense, though it’s better than the Giants’. Funnily enough, they scare me way more in the postseason than the regular season.

      • Bill says:

        I think if the Rays make the playoffs, they could do a lot of damage, and they’re surging. That’s why I want the Red Sox to make it. They’re clearly not the same team they were in July and August. I could easily see them losing to the Tigers in the first round, or the Yankees beating them in the ALCS.

    • mbonzo says:

      Sorry Bex, but I gotta disagree. I don’t think we can call any team the best at this point. The Phillies, have the best pitching rotation in the game, and I think you’re insinuating that good pitching beats good hitting. This isn’t just good talent though, this is the best. A Yankee v. Phillie series is an answer to that question, can the best pitching rotation beat the best hitting lineup?

      At the same time, I think the Phillies have performed the best in their respective leagues, against their respective division opponents. I just think the Red Sox and Yankees are very underrated when it comes to this, and people are gonna be surprised when some of their aces fall apart against the best hitters in baseball.

      • bexarama says:

        I think you’re insinuating that good pitching beats good hitting.
        I guess. It’s not so much “good pitching beats good hitting” as “SUPER CRAZY ELITE PITCHING plus a not-at-all-embarrassing-offense beats just about everything.” I do think the Phillies’ rotation is better any offense it could face, but hey, in the 1990s I might’ve thought that about the Braves.

        Not to get too nitpicky and “a doy duh” here, but the best team doesn’t always win the World Series. There is going to be very little – maybe like, if the Phillies get bounced easy in the first round while an AL team catches fire and wins it all – that can convince me they’re not the best team in baseball.

      • JobaWockeeZ says:

        can the best pitching rotation beat the best hitting lineup?

        Most of the time yes. The mid 2000 Yankees have had dominant offenses. They probably scored 100 more runs than the 2011 Yankees will. But they fell in the ALDS time after time because they couldn’t hit good pitching.

        The late 90s saw powerhouses like the Indians, Atheltics, Orioles and the Rangers. None of them couldn’t do jack shit against good pitching.

        I mean it’s not end all be all but it’s definitely the most important factor. Great offenses always get trumped.

        • bexarama says:

          I think it’s more that those teams had a combination of very good offenses and mehhhh pitching, aside from the As who probably just didn’t have the bounces go their way. Great offenses + meh pitching is a pretty good equation over 162, not so much over a five- or seven-game series.

          • JobaWockeeZ says:

            Yeah meh outching has a lot to do with it but their great offenses also get killed. The Yankees average somewhere along the lines of 4 R/G in the 2005 ALDS, 3.5 R/G in the 2006 ALDS, and 4 R/G in the 2007 ALDS. Doesn’t help that their pitching gave like 5 runs per game or something.

            And in the late 90′s the Yankees killed those teams with their pitching whether it be Wells, Cone, Clemens, El Duque or whoever. As I said it’s not end all since you can point to the 96 and 99 World Series but it’s the biggest factor. The Braves didn’t win but there’s a reason why they were a perennial playoff team.

  30. CBean says:

    I just realized that if the Yankees make it to the ALCS I’ll be in San Francisco during the series. Recommendations on good places to catch the game, possibly Yankee friendly?

  31. Midland TX says:

    Adam Dunn’s batting average points equal his strikeouts (161).

  32. nycsportzfan says:

    Congrats on so many bats sent to the lumber yard broken and ready for scrap wood!! We love ya!

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