Open Thread: Taiwan

November 1, 2011 by Mike Axisa 116 Comments

Hard to believe that’s it’s already November, but the good news is that we get some baseball back. The 2011 MLB All-Star Series in Taiwan started today, and the game will be broadcast tonight on MLB Network at 9pm ET. It’s not live, the game has already been played, so I won’t spoil it here. If you’re interesting in knowing who won and what happened though, just click here for the recap. All I will tell you is that both Curtis Granderson and Robinson Cano (the headliners) did play in the game, and Jeremy Guthrie was the starter. Former Yankee Chien-Ming Wang is schedule to start the finale of the five-game series on Sunday. He’s pitching for the Chinese Taipei team, of course.

Anyway, here is your open thread for this wonderful yet chilly evening. None of the local hockey teams are in action, so it looks like the MLB-Chinese Taipei game is your only sports for the night. You can talk about that and pretty much anything else you want here. Have at it.

Discussion Topic: Do you think CC Sabathia left money on the table by taking the extension from the Yankees?

Craig

If you glance at the picture it looks like Granderson’s popping the finger. Two questions for everyone- would Oswalt be a serviceable back-end starter on a 1 yr deal say worth $7 million? and which is the best (and worst) Star Wars?
- Dave203
  
  Forget the Star Wars question, but I’d take Oswalt for a 1 yr at 7 million. Hell, that’s essentially what we’d be giving Garcia (maybe a million extra, but close). He has a heck of a lot more upside than Garcia. Yes, he has back issues, but Garcia isn’t exactly a workhorse.
- BK2ATL
  
  Re: Oswalt. He’s already stated that he prefers to stay in the NL. You won’t get him got $7 million to come to the AL.
- Jumpin’ Jack Swisher (formerly Jorge)
  
  He’s a name. That’s it. I’d rather bring back Freddy or hand the ball to Noesi.
  - BK2ATL
    
    Agreed.
    
    Sweaty Fredy’s proven he can do it in the AL East over the course of a year. Oswalt hasn’t. And with serious back problems that had him thinking of retiring??? Imagine how THAT plays out in NY.
    - MannyGeee
      
      Really, we’re not concerned about the other shoe dropping with Freddy Garcia?
      
      was he a bargain on a 1 yr flyer and a diamond in the rough… OR was he a flash in the pan that flashed a little longer than Aaron Small???
      
      And are you willing to pay $6M to find out?
      - BK2ATL
        
        Fredy’s had 3 solid years in row, including a solid year in the AL East.
        
        Roy Oswalt was/is comtemplating retiring because of severe back pains a couple of months ago.
        
        Which one would YOU be willing to gamble $6 million on?
        
        Me? I’ll take the chance on Fredy over Oswalt or Jackson for the back-end of our rotation, if that is the decision to be made. No adjustment period needed. No worrying about a bad back that may flare up at any moment.
      - Jumpin’ Jack Swisher (formerly Jorge)
        
        What a blatant lack of knowledge of baseball history.
        
        Aaron Small was a minor league journeyman who has a startling half-season run as a starter.
        
        Freddy Garcia has been an effective starting pitcher in the major leagues for the past decade, albeit one who has had to reinvent himself, and then some, to stay effective.
Dave203

To be quite honest, I don’t know what other team had the money to offer every what we offered so I question whether he could have been offered a better deal elsewhere. Boston did not have the $$$ to devote another 25 million/yr to. The Dodgers are handling management issues. The Rangers are highly unlikely to pay anyone 25 million/yr considering their unwillingness to go past $15 on Wilson. The Mets are still broke from Madoff. What other reasonable options were out there paying him 5-6 years at 24-25 million/yr?

That said, I am a bit surprised he didn’t try and rake the Yanks for more than just 1 more guaranteed year. I thought for sure it would have taken 2 guaranteed and an option to avoid an opt out.
John

Most commenters I read since the deal was announced last night understand the contract as a five year, 122MM contract. However, it is pretty certain that it will end up being a six year, 142MM contract. The latter figure is, in my opinion, market value for CC.
Jumpin’ Jack Swisher (formerly Jorge)

I think CC potentially left money on the table from a Nats-type team looking to make a splash. With the money he’s making already, that money left on the table would have been used as dental floss by his third butler. I’m REALLY happy to see him do what he did.

And yes, Curtis, quit half-flipping us off.
- Dave203
  
  You really think the Nats would have offered him 6/142? I doubt that. I really don’t see any other team with the ability right now to do that deal.
  - Jumpin’ Jack Swisher (formerly Jorge)
    
    “Nats-type team” = not necessarily the Nats. I think someone may have thrown crazy money at him. Yes.
    - Dave203
      
      Who? I look around and seriously cannot find a team that I can imagine reasonably throwing that type of money around at a single player. Very few teams can do that and all of those teams are strapped for cash right now. I just don’t see any other match outside the Yanks for that type of money.
      - Jumpin’ Jack Swisher (formerly Jorge)
        
        OK.
        
        Dave203
        
        LOL — I love when you comment about your “someone may have” without any thought of who that someone could reasonably be.
        
        OK.
        
        Jumpin’ Jack Swisher (formerly Jorge)
        
        I don’t have your direct line to all the other GMs. Sorry.
        
        Dave203
        
        Its not a matter of having a direct line with the GMs or not. I’m sure you can handle thinking threw the possible teams without calling up GMs to verify their interest. Or maybe you feel more comfortable saying “someone” instead of narrowing that down a bit.
  - Matt Montero
    
    But why not the Nats? They have the richest owner in baseball, seem willing to spend money (didn’t they offer big money to a few guys last yr or the yr before?), and seem to be on the cusp of winning. They have a few nice offensive pieces and potential to have a great rotation. A few more pieces and they will be a serious threat.
    
    I’m not saying the Nats would definitely offer a 6yr/142mil contract, but I wouldn’t have counted them out as a black horse.
    - Dave203
      
      First, they just “invested” in Jayson Werth for 117 million over 7 seasons. More importantly, that looks to be an awful deal already.
      
      Second, their payroll was 68 million last season. Adding 24 million is a 35% increase in payroll. That’s insane for any club let alone a small market club, regardless of how rich the owner is. No owner is going to invest money if he doesn’t think he can get return. CC on the Nats likely doesn’t even get them into the playoffs.
      - BK2ATL
        
        Never knew that Washington DC was a small market. And that team has money to spend.
        
        The Werth deal was horrible, but they were trying to make a splash in the FA market. They can afford another 2 big contracts. The goal will be to bring veterans leadership to the team to complement Strasburg, the Bryce Harper kid and other youngsters.
        
        Don’t be surprised if they go hard after Pujols or Fielder.
        
        Dave203
        
        Just because the city is big, doesn’t mean its a big sports market. DC has always been a poor sorts market for baseball. They have less than 60% attendance every year.
        
        Again, while they “could afford” it, why would an owner raise their payroll 35% without getting any return. CC is worth an extra 8-10 wins for them which puts them square in the middle of NL East behind the Phillies and Atlanta.
Whatev

Is this a picture of Granderson taking a picture of himself? That’s meta.
- Craig
  
  I’d like to call it “Grandception”.
Soriano Is A Liar

Is there anywhere you can check out the box score of the MLB-Taiwan series games? Curious as to the lineup, etc (And I don’t get MLB network).
Greg

Just was on baseball reference looking at pitchers.
Ricky Romero’s nickname is RR Cool Jay. Hmmm…
BK2ATL

CC absolutely left a lot more money on the table. He’s a true ace, in every sense of the word. Off the top of my head, Texas, Toronto, Nationals, Baltimore and the Cubs would pony up the $150+ million for the chance at an ace like CC. Boston would dig into the coffers to have a true consistent ace as well. All of these teams have the money to make serious bids on him.

Maybe some folks around here underestimate CC, but no one in the 2012 FA class comes close to CC’s last 3 years, or ability to lead a rotation in the AL East. I don’t see why he won’t continue to put up the same numbers, if not better, over the life of the contract. He’s a keeper and Cashman KNOWS it.
Craig

anyone recommend Arkham City? What makes it so great?
- Brooklyn Ed
  
  gameplay, action, graphics, controls, and for me.. I felt like I was actually Batman when playing it.
  - Greg
    
    better than AA? Because I’m waiting for it to come on PC.
    - Brian S.
      
      Nothing is better than Alcoholics Anonymous. Good time man, good times.
      - Greg
        
        I fell you are being sarcastic, but in case you are not, I meant Arkham Asylum.
        
        Yu ain’t Matsuzaka (formerly Pants Lendelton)
        
        I can’t remember a time probably since the late 90’s when so many quality video games hit the market at the same time.
        
        http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse
        
        I’m 18 and I don’t play very many video games (I know, very un-American) but what exactly have I missed over say the last three years?
        
        Brian S.
        
        2004? Halo 2, GTA San Adreas, Metal Gear Solid 3, Mario Kart Double Dash, Resident Evil 4, Half-Life 2, Burnout 3, World of Warcraft, the third Rachet and Clank/Jak and Daxter, the second KOTOR/Prince of Perisa, and Fable all came out within four months of eachother.
        
        http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse
        
        2004 sucked for obvious reasons, but obviously it has nothing to do with video games.
        
        Peter Gammons
        
        I own every one of those games. But I don’t play them. I just stare at the copyright date.
Brian S.

Here’s a thought, please don’t crucify me. I think it might be smart to shop David Robertson this winter. His value will never be higher and as good as he is, he is just a relief pitcher who can only provide limited value. If you take him out of our bullpen it would still be a stregnth; with Rivera, Soriano, and Joba able to take up late inning duties. I think that he would be really attractive to teams looking for a closer who wouldn’t want to sign Bell, Papelbon, Rodriguez, or any other free agents to long term contracts. If we were to trade for a starting pitcher, I would much rather see a bullpen piece be moved than Montero or Banuelos. I don’t think he should be packaged in a deal for anything less than a top of the rotation starter, and I really like him and would not be upset at all to see us keep him, but I just thought I would share an idea with you all.
- Grit for Brains
  
  The first half of your comment I was like WTF…then came the truth and yea I agree but throwing in Robertson won’t all of a sudden make a Felix, Kershaw, Lincecum or Verlander suddenly available.
- BK2ATL
  
  Not a bad idea, but with Mariano possibly retiring after the year, not knowing how Joba will come back, nor what Phil will be, you can’t mess with Robertson. He appears to be the real thing, not potential.
  
  But, in the same vein, how about we give Noesi, Warren, Kontos and Phelps some MLB reps to build their value, rather than keeping them as AAA also-rans??? Never know. Nova wasn’t given much of a chance around here or anywhere else, yet there he was. Our #2 starter behind CC.
  
  Banuelos, Betances and Montero wouldn’t have to be our only trade bait, if we’d have played our cards correctly and showcased Noesi, Kontos, Warren, and Phelps when the right opportunities arose, rather than rolling out Scott Proctor and Ayala. You never know what they could bring back. There certainly isn’t a place for all of them with the big club.
  - Brian S.
    
    I agree, which is why I hope that we can “Derek Lowe” AJ Burnett. It would be nice to save a little money and then give that rotation spot to one of our ML ready pitchers in AAA. I’d be down with a rotation of CC-acquired top of the rotation pitcher-Nova-Hughes-Noesi/Warren/Phelps
    - BK2ATL
      
      I’m so hoping that we can pull it off “Derek Lowe-ing” AJ. The payoff might be worth it.
      
      I’d be down with a CC-Nova-Darvish-Danks-Noesi/Warren/or Phelps rotation.
- Dave203
  
  The thought process is OK, but he has been consistent now for 2 seasons and while he has peaked right now, he will likely still be just as valuable after 2012 when we need to make the decision on Rivera and have been able to see if Soriano and Joba be be productive for a full season in the pen. I’d rather hold on to him for another season and see how the rest of the pen pans out first. If we still have just as many options then, trading him would be a consideration.
- pat
  
  I can’t imagine there are too many teams that are in the market for an inexpensive closer and have an abundance of top of the rotation starters.
  - Brian S.
    
    Well obviously Robertson wouldn’t be the only one traded for a top of the roto starter but if he was in a small package…
DERP

Is this the thread where we LOL at the Orioles? Who turns down a GM job?
- http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.
  
  Don’t laugh too loud. The Yanks had a lot of trouble finding a GM before they got Bob Watson in 96, and hired internal candidate Cashman in 98 to avoid another embarrassment. I believe Dick Williams was one of the people who turned George down, and he and George were good friends IIRC.
- Billion$Bullpen
  
  Yes, yes it is. I agree the Yanks have been there before. But this is now and its really sad that a once great org like the O’s have been wrecked by that mook Peter A.
http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/industries/exchange-operator-cme-group-says-mf-global-broke-rules-on-separating-client-company-money/2011/11/01/gIQA3hzMcM_story.html

…uhhhhhh Jon Corzine is in a whole big heap of trouble. Making unauthorized trades will cause you to lose your license, this is just flat-out stealing your clients money. It’s also how Madoff got started, Bernie just was a bit more conservative with his fake investments.
- Dave203
  
  He was a crook as a Governor and he still is. Nothing new. Once corrupt, always corrupt.
  - http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.
    
    I really didn’t follow his political career all that closely. But you don’t need to be Chief law enforcement officer of a state or head of Goldman Sachs to know you can’t do what he did, and he was both.
- Billion$Bullpen
  
  I have no stake as I am not a repub or democrat but this dude was always a pompous know it all, and was always anti business unless it was him or his buddies making the money.
Squishy Jello Person

I like bragging, so

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/18217/season-in-review-believe-the-impossible
- http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.
  
  Great stuff. Its amazing how when you walk back through an entire MLB season like that, one year feels like a lifetime. So much happens.
- mbonzo
  
  Such a good article. Being my favorite writer on ESPN gives you bragging rights.
- http://twitter.com/Paddock9652 Stratman 9652
  
  That was awesome.
Beamish

Sure CC left money on the table but how much really?

If you accept that $25MM/year was the top rate then he walked away from a potential 5/$125 or 6/$150 meaning he left $3-$8 million on the table.

When you are talking about that kind of generational money, consider everything he has already earned, throw in the modest bump in endorsements being in NY is it worth around $5 million to alienate an entire fan base and leave a team that will help you contend every year of your career?

Yes, he left money on the table but I think he exchanged those minimal (to him) extra dollars for a much better situation for his career and himself.
FachoinaNYY

This looks like a perfect photoshop candidate for Curtis to say “fuck you” to his critics…
Sarah

Did anyone else hear Cashman on MLB Network Radio? Jim Bowden kept saying before Cash was on that he was hearing that Mark Buerhle was the Yankees first choice behind CC, but when Cash is on the show and Bowden asks him straight out, Cash was all “[awkward silence] we’re looking at a lot of different guys, we’re going to take our time and be deliberate.” Bowden was momentarily speechless. It was awesome.
- http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse
  
  Ha! I hope MLB Network “shares” the clip on their facebook page so I can listen to it. I bet he stays in Chicago or goes to the Cardinals, but as of now the Cardinals don’t have an opening in their rotation even when/if Jackson leaves.
  - http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse
    
    Never mind, just saw it on FB, I’ll listen to it. I absolutely love awkward silences in interviews.
  - Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat
    
    Wainwright
    Carpenter
    Garcia
    Loshe
    ???
    
    Am I missing someone?
    - http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa
      
      Westbrook.
      - Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat
        
        Ahh ok.
  - Sarah
    
    Bowden’s other brilliant plan was for the Cards to deal Lohse and Westbrook for something. I can’t remember what exactly he thought the Cards would deal them for, but suffice to say, it was ridiculous.
http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
Structure of the deal- w/vesting option tied to shoulder condition in 2017 — suggests NYY have concerns about pre-condition in CC shoulder.

This worries me the most about CCs new deal. Buster’s one of the best reporters in the biz, he wouldn’t just pull something like that out of thin air. He was even questioned on his “inference” by William over at the Captains blog and he reiterated his report, saying it was “accurate”.

There are times you have to fill in the blanks and use common sense. His Yankee source (who I’ve always believed is the GM) isn’t going to want the world to think there’s an issue with CC’s health, especially not after they just handed him 30 mil. So Buster gets the info, and knows how to phrase it in such a way that his source is protected. There’s something there, and it may explain why CC didn’t want to go FA. As Buster himself said, they didn’t put any language about his elbow or other body parts.

Also understand that CC and his agent have to agree to this stipulation. Why would they agree to something that could cost his client a 20 mil vesting option if it was completely without merit?
- pat
  
  Why would Brian Cashman leak that information?
  - mbonzo
    
    Its possible that his real source is an executive too, and maybe he owed Olney a favor for something fake he “leaked”, or maybe his source is connected to CC’s agent who is trying to make excuses for when the player’s association flips out.
  - http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.
    
    Buster-“Brian, why was there specific language about the shoulder in the contract”
    
    Cash-“uhhhh….lets phrase this one carefully, OK?”
    
    Buster-“OK, how about the contract ‘suggests NYY have concerns about pre-condition in CC shoulder.’? Does that work?”
    
    Cash-“That’s why I love you, Buster. Vague enough to give me plausible deniability. “
- CP
  
  I would guess that the issue with the shoulder is that they pretty much end your career as an effective pitcher. Surgery is not successful very often and you can’t really “pitch through it”. Back injuries tend to linger too, but if you can get through the pain, they’re not as career threatening (see Kevin Brown and Roy Oswalt). Elbows, legs, etc can all be fixed with surgery.
  
  As for the specific wording, why would they only include language related to the shoulder for 2016 if they are worried about it now? As far as I understand it, CC could spend all of 2012 through 2015 on the DL for a bum shoulder. Then he comes back and pitches all of 2016 (even if he sucks) and the option would vest.
Sarah

LOL, Jeff Mathis is the catcher for the MLB All Star game.
- http://twitter.com/Paddock9652 Stratman 9652
  
  Scioscia’s managing?
  - Sarah
    
    Bruce Bochy
Sarah

Wait the Chinese Taipei team is made up of minor leaguers? This is strange.
mbonzo

Romine is in the dugout.
mbonzo

ROBBIE CANO!
- Sarah
  
  Look at all the Cano fans!
Bartolo’s Colon

Question regarding darvish and japanese pitchers in general, does the strike zone differ much in japan? is it larger/smaller than mlb?is it enough to make a difference at all? i know there are a lot of things that japanese pitchers have to acclimate themselves to play in mlb, just wondering if this is a factor?
- mbonzo
  
  Check out this article if you have BP.
  http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15379
  - http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse
    
    Stupid question to ask, but since I don’t have a subscription to BP, can you copy and paste the rest of the article here? Or at least provide some highlights?
    - mbonzo
      
      Not gonna copy and paste it for legal reason/RAB rules I’m sure.
      They wrapped it up at a Rangers blog.
      - http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse
        
        Thanks.
http://twitter.com/Paddock9652 Stratman9652

Even in Taiwan Robbie, won’t take a ball.
- http://twitter.com/Paddock9652 Stratman9652
  
  Misplaced commas FTW.
- Sarah
  
  He took 2, but he shoulda took that last pitch, it was a ball.
http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse

Grandy Slam!
- mbonzo
  
  That was outta the park no?
  - http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse
    
    Sure looked like it. That was a total meatball and he destroyed it. Too bad he couldn’t do that in Game 5 :(
http://twitter.com/Paddock9652 Stratman9652

Curtis Granderson is hitting grand slams on my TV in November. Life is good.
BK2ATL

The Grandy still can!!!

Someone give Kevin Long a raise, esp. if he can get Tex back on track.
Sarah

There is a lot of PA led shouting at this game. Not sure how I feel about that…
- http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse
  
  I’m very annoyed by it and glad they don’t do that in the states. But at least the MLB Network announcers drown the noise out somewhat.
http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse

The Gold Glove awards are going to be on ESPN2, it should be on now but the stupid college football game is still going with 10:46 remaining. Are they just going to wait, or have the results been leaked somewhere yet?
- Sarah
  
  I think we just have to wait. Sucks. Good thing I still have laundry going…
Sarah

Josh Reddick is on the MLB All Star team? They could not get Ellsbury to represent the Sox? Hahahaha.
mbonzo

These fans are so much better than your typical MLB fan who runs away as soon as it drizzles.
Greg

Matt Wieters wins the AL Catcher
Sarah

Wow, this “awards show” is terrible.
- http://twitter.com/Paddock9652 Stratman9652
  
  Really not worth its own show. I do like how they changed the rules a bit this year and split up the OF by position.
  - mbonzo
    
    The problem is… its late and this thing is really drawn out. These commercials are like 5 minutes long too.
    - Sarah
      
      It has potential to be at least moderately entertaining.
    - http://twitter.com/Paddock9652 Stratman9652
      
      Exactly, as opposed to finding out on RAB or twitter who won what in less than a minute.
      
      If they really want an award show do it all at once. MVP, Cy Young, Gold Gloves and the rest the same way they do the Oscars and such. That might be a bit worth watching.
- Monteroisdinero
  
  Not possible-Wieters is too tall and unathletic.
mbonzo

Parra, Kemp, and Ethier for the NL OF
Sarah

Alex Gordon over Gardner? WTF.
Greg

See if Brett had a better offensive season, he would have gotten the award.
mbonzo

Alex Gordon in LF, guess Gardner didn’t hit well enough. This award couldn’t be more of a joke.
Nick

did they actually pick Gordon over Gardner? what bullshit
http://twitter.com/Paddock9652 Stratman9652

But the fielding percentages!!!!one!1
- mbonzo
  
  Gardner still wins.
  - http://twitter.com/Paddock9652 Stratman9652
    
    I was just making fun of the guys on the show talking so much about fielding percentage.
    
    Brett got snubbed plain and simple.
    - mbonzo
      
      I figured, but if these guys are seriously basing it on fielding percentage, they might want to recheck their numbers because Gardner is better or at least tied with all of the winners.
mbonzo

Fun fact:
The 3 AL outfield gold glove winners combined for 21 UZR/150.

Brett Gardner totaled 29.5 alone.
- Sarah
  
  Sob.
goterpsgo

This will only be the 2nd time in my life that I will be willfully rooting AGAINST anything associated with NYY (the 1st is coaching my kid’s team [NYM] against another kids’ NYY team).

And we’re called TAIWAN, not Chinese Taipei. Man I hate those commies…
- http://twitter.com/#!/KChinmaster KenC
  
  +1