Cross another name off the list: White Sox extend John Danks

Open Thread: WPIX and the 1987 Yankees
Yankees, Jones haven't made much progress on new deal

Via Jon Heyman, the White Sox and John Danks have agreed to a five-year contract extension worth $65M. Danks, 26, was one of many pitchers we’d identified as possible trade targets for the Yankees, though apparently Kenny Williams was asking for two of Jesus Montero, Dellin Betances, and Manny Banuelos. That’s simply too much for a very good but not great pitcher with only one year of control left before free agency. We never did hear anything about how interested the Yankees actually were in the left-hander, but feel free to speculate.

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Open Thread: WPIX and the 1987 Yankees
Yankees, Jones haven't made much progress on new deal
  • http://mlbdailydose.com vinny q

    Wow, i thought they had a good shot at acquiring him.

    • CP

      Based on what?

  • Cy Pettitte

    RAB needs a color coded TSA threat level style system on top of the page so I know the appropriate level of panic and outrage after something like this happens.

    • Plank

      Threat level: Ivory

      Up next is Bone, then Mauve, followed by Taupe.

      • Griffey’s Grotesquely Swollen Jaw

        It’s Threat Level Midnight people!

        /Michael Scott’d
        //when The Office was good

      • http://bloodfarm.tumblr.com mattdamonwayans

        Oh, I have the perfect thing!

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoIvd3zzu4Y
        Safe for work, unless you consider, like, every other scene in the movie.

  • Phife Dawg

    Edwin Jackson step on down!

    • Behind Enemy Lines

      He of the 97 career ERA+? No thanks.

      It’s Oswalt or bust.

      • Ted Nelson

        Really still on the career numbers thing? I don’t particularly want the Yankees to sign him, but Edwin Jackson debuted at like 19.

        • jsbrendog

          i agree with you. so, since 08, his 24 age season, era+ as follows:

          100
          126
          95
          106

          not exactly better really than anything we have already no?

          • Ted Nelson

            Better than everything the Yankees have besides CC. And particularly strong in the AL for some reason… could be a fluke…

            AJ has been at 82 and 86 the last two seasons.
            Hughes has been at 103 and 77.
            I am as big a Garcia fan as there is, but I would expect closer to the 92 he posted in 2010 than the 122 he posted in 2011.
            Nova has a good shot at being better than Jackson, but only has one season to work with. Very volatile.

            In a perfect world all the Yankees guys would have good seasons and EJax would not be an upgrade. He’s done it year after year, though, while none of the Yankees guys other than CC have.

            I am not advocating signing Jackson. I think the Yankees are better served with a short-term guy if anything. If they did sign him, though, I would call him their #2 starter until Nova, Hughes, or one of the other young guys proved me wrong.

      • http://www.bronxbombersreport.com Craig Maduro

        I’ll be the first to admit that Edwin suffers from a little bit of A.J. Burnett-like schizophrenia, but he’s definitely worth a long look. He’s posted solid numbers, has solid stuff (at worst) and he’s young enough to reasonably expect a step forward.

    • Tom

      I’m all for that if he’s not looking for 14mil or more per year.

      Jackson last 3 years: 3.96 ERA, 3.90 FIP, 3.93x FIP 11.2 fWAR

      Danks last 3 years: 3.92 ERA, 4.04 FIP, 4.07xFIP, 10.4 fWAR
      Gavin Floyd last 3 years: 4.16 ERA, 3.68 FIP, 3.69 xFIP, 12.4 fWAR

      Not sure why everyone is so hung up on Danks… yeah he’s 2 years younger than Jackson, but is he any better? (not to mention one costs prospects and money, Jackson ‘just’ money)

      If they make a deal I’d almost rather have Floyd and I think it’s a good thing Danks is off the market as Floyd will cost less in prospects and has 2 years of team control (2013 club option)

      I think the myth of John Danks has outpaced the performance of John Danks

  • statboy yankopherson

    looks like warren or noesi will have to break camp with the team, maybe both. wouldnt be surprised if it turned out we’ve been severely undervaluing them the whole time

    • RetroRob

      Right now Noesi is slotted as the #6 starter, which means he’ll have to go to AAA to keep him stretched the for the envitable when he’s needed. If the belief on Warren is he’s really not cut to be a MLB starter (or am I confusing him with Mitchell?), then it might make sense to givie Warren or Mitchell a shot at the 2011 Noesi roll out of the pen.

      • statboy yankopherson

        aj could be traded to allow noesi & warren to battle it out for the #5 spot, with the other going to AAA to show manny and delin the ropes

        • Need Pitching

          unlikely AJ gets traded without at least a plan to acquire another starting pitcher

          then again, unlikely AJ gets traded no matter what

    • Jim Is Bored

      Camp hasn’t even started yet. Little soon to be asserting who will and won’t be breaking camp with the team.

  • mustang

    Wow!!!!

    Didn’t see that coming and ouch!

  • http://abovetheyankeedugout.com/ Carl

    Cue more bitching.

    • Bob Loblaw

      time to send AJ for some stem cell replacements!!

  • Peter North

    He seemed like the most realistic shot. Now I’m really bummed cuz I think it’s now even more likely the rotation we see is what we’ll get.

  • http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse

    I don’t get this. I thought the White Sox were rebuilding.

    • Plank

      They don’t rebuild, they reload. Oh, wait. That’s Houston.

    • Dan 2

      They are rebuilding.
      In many ways the extension makes Danks more desirable and more tradable. I am not saying we trade a B and montero but at least now it makes some sense.

    • BK2ATL

      Keith Law is all over this as well on Twitter.

      Says (and I paraphrase) it makes Ozzie look better with each White Sox move. They really don’t seem to know what they’re doing over there.

  • Will

    Just another pitcher who slipped away from the Yankees.

    Cliff Lee
    Zack Geinke
    Yu Darvish
    John Danks

    Who’s next? Cole Hamels? Matt Cain?

    • Jon in CUO

      So you’re going on record as being in favor of trading Montero and a B for Danks? Good to know.

    • Bob Loblaw

      we just gota keep our fingers crossed that the kids stay healthy and can positively contribute to the team in ’13.. if they don’t work out, it’ll be a tough pill for cashman to swallow

    • Peter North

      Don’t forget Dan Haren!

      • Plank

        Not getting Haren hurt. Did the details ever come out? I know the Yankees didn’t want to part with Joba. What else was on the table?

        • The Big City of Dreams

          That’s the thing it’s never clear and dry. Some ppl say they wanted Nova and Drob in the deal other fans say the Dbacks really liked the players they were getting from the Angels and it didn’t matter what package NY put together

        • bankers hours

          Good thing they kept Joba, Joba also held us up from getting Halladay. Prospects are prospects abd they’re all crapshoots.

          • Plank

            In hindsight, they should have traded him both times if those deals were actually possible, but he wasn’t a prospect at that point, he was just a young player.

    • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

      All the planets actually revolve around Yankee Stadium: FACT.

      • Plank

        You are on a Yankees blog where people discuss moves and how they relate to the Yankees.

  • A-Rod’s Wingman

    STUPID CASHMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Brian S.

      !!!11!!!one!!eleventy!!1!

  • mbonzo

    I imagine it went like this.

    Kenny Williams: So I think we’ll take Montero, Betances, and Banuelos for Danks, ok?

    Brian Cashman: Listen Ken, we might have screwed you with the Swisher trade but we’re not throwing prospects at you to make up for it.

    Williams: So Montero and Banuelos then?

    Cashman: Yea, maybe if Danks had 5 more years at some ridiculously low price.

    Williams: K I’ll brb.

    • http://twitter.com/bleachertweeter Bleachertweeter

      lol

    • Billion$Bullpen

      I actually laughed for about 2 mins solid after seeing this.

      • tyrone sharpton

        then you should see a doctor…

  • Johnny O

    I wonder if this is like Wandy where there was a ton of trade speculation, then he got an extension, then the team still wanted to move him a year later.

    Overall though seems like a good deal for the Sox and for Danks.

  • Peter

    Same thing will happen with Cain. Just the cool thing to do. Not sure about Hamels and Greinke…

  • Westcoastyankfan

    I wouldn’t have wanted to trade Montero and Banuelos for him. In fact I still wouldn’t want to trade Montero and Banuelos for him now that he’s signed.

  • mustang

    mustang says:
    December 21, 2011 at 4:45 pm
    I’m actually starting to warm up to this it can be argued that Kuroda or Oswalt would be a upgrade/equal to Colon. They definitely have a bigger upside.
    The only thing that worries me is that I think the 2013 pool is going to be a lot thinner then people think, but worry about that then.

    Don’t hold your breath on that 2013 free agent pitching class. ONE DOWN!!!!!

    • BK2ATL

      Make that two down, you forgot that Kemp got locked up as well.

      • http://twitter.com/bleachertweeter Bleachertweeter

        Unless you know something I don’t Kemp wasn’t in the 2013 Free Agent Pitching Class

        • BK2ATL

          I missed the pitching part, but he would’ve been a definite FA target had he not extended. Hell, on this board, he already was. That’s what I was referring to.

  • Thomas Cassidy

    Enough with all this “I thought the Yankees were really going to get him” stuff. Why? Because some people talked about the idea? He wasn’t going anywhere. And his numbers were terrible last year.

  • Bo Knows

    Thank you, Danks’ name has become a caterwaul on this site

    • http://www.bronxbombersreport.com Craig Maduro

      +1

  • bonestock94

    I don’t think a 4 FIP pitcher was worth two top prospects, so I’m happy the Yanks didn’t trade for Danks. Sounds like a decent deal for the Sox though, he should be worth at least 3 WAR a season, making his AAV a bit of a bargain.

    • http://www.bronxbombersreport.com Craig Maduro

      Plus one.

  • Plank

    I’m glad this will be the last Danks thread for a while.

    • Jim Is Bored

      It may be the last thread dedicated to him, but you can bet his name will come up again and again and again alongside Yu and Cliff.

      Yay.

      • http://www.bronxbombersreport.com Craig Maduro

        At least the Yankees (probably) won’t trade Betances in a deal for him at this point.

  • CJ

    I really thought danks price would drop to betances romine package. Extension contract is fair. Not many options left. I hope banuelos is watching VHS of Fernando Valenzuela rookie season.

  • CJ

    You have the checkbook, what is the most you would offer Edwin Jackson? I say 3/30 tops

    • Grit for Brains

      I’d like 3/30 but you might have to add a vesting option (which I would) to get that done.

    • Jon in CUO

      Without looking at all at what comparable pitchers got, just off the top of my head…something like 4/48 or maybe even 5/60

    • BK2ATL

      If I’m Cashman, I close the checkbook and walk away for the lot. AND Boras is his agent??? No thank you. We really aren’t desperate.

      Our best SP move at this point, just get rid of AJ.

      • jsbrendog

        and replace him with??

  • Nathan

    Another example of young pitching getting locked up making it harder and harder to acquire. The Yankees need to learn that when the opportunity comes up, you have to take it. Sometimes the cost is high but you need to trade talent to get it.

    I’m talking more about not trading for Haren than not trading for Danks.

    • BK2ATL

      Or how about we just grow their own young pitching??? Our offense figures to average at least 5 runs a game. We would get by.

      I don’t understand why fans are so averse to this. The FA market has changed. Hoping to not get raped by Boras (financially) or other GMs (prospects) for quality starting pitching isn’t much of a long-term strategy. Cashman is playing it right. We just need to be patient.

      • Plank

        Growing young aces isn’t something that you can just focus on and grow on the farm. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but young aces don’t grow on trees.

        Every team attempts to cultivate their own aces, but the chances of getting even one is low. The Yankees and every other team does everything they can to grow their own aces, it just rarely works out.

        • Plank

          does do

        • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

          Teams can also develop guys for the other four spots in the rotation, Plank.

          • Plank

            Even developing league average pitching is hard to do. That is why it is so valuable on the FA market and teams are so willing to lock it up when they have it. Replace ace in my previous comment with league average innings eater and the point is the same.

        • http://spardizzone@gmail.com Yanks Fan In Sawx Land

          What kind of fertilizer are the Rays using?

          • Plank

            They bought the right magic beans apparently.

      • Peter North

        Thanks for clarifying that you meant Boras could rape the Yanks financially, not physically. Haha

    • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

      Psssstttt…..Nathan…..the Yanks can develop their own pitching too. Sssshhhhhhh.

      • Nathan

        I would very much like that but who is the last good pitcher that the Yankees developed themselves? And no, Hughes and one All-Star half of a season doesn’t count. Andy Pettitte is the last one.

        The last big three of Joba, Hughes and IPK hasn’t turned out as expected. Joba now looks like a decent bullpen guy, IPK has found success in the NL where his stuff is better suited and Hughes is a mystery and next season will be a #4 or #5 starter. If my memory serves correctly, the Jays wanted two of those three for Halladay and the DBacks wanted Joba as a centerpiece.

        I’m not an opponent of developing your own talent but the Yankees must also be willing to trade young POTENTIALLY good talent for proven talent.

        • Need Pitching

          they did trade kennedy, and arodys, so they have shown they are willing to trade potentially good talent in what they perceive is a fair deal

          and they did develop Wang, who was pretty damn good until a freak injury

          • Nathan

            Ah, Wang. I forgot about him. I sure wouldn’t mind the old CMW on this roster, that’s for sure!

            Kudos.

            • CP

              There was this guy that was the Yankees #2 starter in the playoffs last year.

              • Nathan

                If only we could base performances on such small sample sizes.

                If that were the case, Joba would be a lock-down 8th inning Mo heir and Hughes would be an All-Star starter.

                I’m eager to see what Nova can do, but I’d like to see him replicate last year before I crown him the Yankee’s #2.

        • MannyGeee

          Actually Joba looks like a good starter pidgeon holed into the 6th inning. But point taken

    • Ted Nelson

      The Diamondbacks got a league average young LHSP and a stud LHP prospect for Haren. It only looked like a steal for a hot minute because Skaggs had been drafted too recently to be included in the deal except as a PTBNL.

      No reason not to expect that it would have cost the Yankees Joba AND Banuelos at the very least… And even then Arizona might have preferred a proven starter in Saunders over a reliever with one near 5 ERA starting season in Joba and Skaggs over Banuelos. Could be possible the Yankees did offer Joba and Manny only to be rejected. Haren has also learned a new pitch and resurrected his career to a degree since then. That was not assured at the time.

      It’s a balancing act overall. Yankees can’t prospect hug, but they also can’t wildly throw away prospects on whatever expensive vet becomes available.

  • CMP

    I’m sure Cashman’s not worried. There are still several LOOGYs left on the market.

    • Reggie C.

      Comment of the night.

      • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

        ….in the “that made no sense” category.

        I miss TJSC’s burrito line.

        • Reggie C.

          I just think CMP made a plain funny comment. CMP made a decent “Cashman’s attentions are turned elsewhere” jokes.

          • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

            Except that, just because he’s not making the deal you, or CMP, want him to make, it doesn’t mean his attention is turned elsewhere. It’s not funny. It’s plain uninformed.

            • Plank

              Huh? It’s pretty common knowledge that Cashman has had horrible luck/taste/whatever when it comes to picking up LOOGYs. He was making a joke about that. Not getting the joke is what is uninformed.

              • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

                I’d wager most GM’s have bad luck with volatile relievers, not just Cashman.

                • Plank

                  Yes, my point was that only Cashman has this problem. Thanks for picking up on that.

            • Jim Is Bored

              I thought it was funny, which makes at least 2 of us.

            • Reggie C.

              I’m not even sure CMP’s serious. It doesnt appear CMP’s taken a stance one way or another tonight. Neither have I. The comment struck me immediately as funny.

              Anyways, there are more intriguing names available (Garza for whom I would trade Banuelos, Romine, Warren) and maybe even Edwin Jackson if the years stay at 3.

            • CMP

              How am I uninformed?

              I’m was trying to be funny.

              I personally wouldn’t have given up Montero, ManBan or Betances for Danks let alone 2 of them. It would have been nice though if he became a FA next year in case the Yankees whiff on Cain, Hamels and Grienke.

              • Ted Nelson

                There are so many commenters on here who really seem to think Cashman is totally incompetent that I tend to agree with Jack that joke lumped you in with them whether it was intentionally or unintentionally.

                • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

                  I’ve been on the other side of it for sure so, if I lumped CMP in where I shouldn’t, I apologize.

                  • CMP

                    No worries.

            • Need Pitching

              I though it was funny, and I don’t think CMP seriously is saying that Cash is more worried about Loogys than starting pitching.

        • http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse

          What ever happened to TJSC?

          • Plank

            He’s grounded for the next 18 years.

            Alternate answer:

            He got the worst STD of all.

            • CMP

              Yeah but he had the kid last year and he was still active posting most of the season. Did he have another one?

              • Plank

                No clue.

  • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

    How dare other teams extend their own players! They need to offer everyone to the Yankees BEFORE extending them!

    Kuroda or Oswalt. Otherwise, go with what you got. Don’t like it? Visit Citifield next year.

    • http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse

      I laughed. But really, that’s pretty much how it’s going to be.

    • http://yankeeanalysts.com Moshe Mandel

      “Don’t like it? Visit Citifield next year.”

      So it isn’t possible to have a complaint about the team? Anyone who isn’t pleased with the pitching plan should just go become Mets fans?

      • http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse

        I think he’s just tired of the constant bitching by some people. It’s like f the Yankees don’t get a big name pitcher, the team is doomed. I mean, it’s the Yankees for Christ’s sake, they won 97 games last year.

        • http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse

          *if

        • Plank

          I think you’re overstating the doom and gloom you are hearing. The Yankees could use another good pitcher to replace the good pitcher they lost. That’s not bitching in my book. Even if it is, one dude on the internet shouldn’t tell people to change their fan allegiance. People can be any kind of fan they want.

          Also, probably not your intention but when you say “I mean, it’s the Yankees for Christ’s sake, they won 97 games last year.” I couldn’t help but think of this:

          http://www.baseball-reference......1965.shtml

          I don’t think it will happen next year, but the Yankees name means nothing if they don’t have the players to back it up.

          • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

            Proving my point exactly. The Yankee name means what it means, no matter what place the team is in.

            I wonder how many guys on here who were too young in ’86 would have been wearing Mets hats instead.

            If you can’t handle anything but a championship and a team without some questions on it, you absolutely should try living your life as a fan of a team for which it isn’t a given every year.

            • Plank

              If you can’t handle anything but a championship and a team without some questions on it

              The gulf between that and wanting to improve the team is bigger than the grand canyon. Complaining because they didn’t get a top free agent that suits their needs because ownership wants to reduce payroll or any other reason is what fans of every team do. Why don’t you just list the rules about how people are allowed to support their team and we can all follow them as you intend.

              • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

                Jon Danks isn’t a free agent, though. He’s a guy who was rumored to be on the trading block, then was extended by his team. The automatic assumption by some of the commenters on here was that, because the Yankees didn’t give up the players they wanted to acquire him before he was extended, that is somehow constitutes a failure on the franchise’s part to improve the team.

                If I can’t make fun of that fallacy, Plank, then perhaps there’s a list of rules you’d like to provide me with instead.

                • Plank

                  You’re getting into the specifics of John Danks and the feasibility of trading for him or the lack thereof.

                  What I object to (and I hate to put words in someone else’s mouth, but I believe Moshe was, too) is that you are complaining that fans have opinions about any Danks related moves.

                  I’m not a Danks fan and frankly I was sick and tired of hearing about him, but I would never tell people not to talk about it or tell them to root for another team because they want to make a specific more or not make one.

                  It seems as though you feel that way, and that’s what I find objectionable.

                  If you don’t feel that way, you should be aware that your writing comes across that way.

                  • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

                    ……which somehow makes this the mirror image of my argument with CMP somewhere else on this thread, where I misread what he was saying.

                    Jesse got the gist of what I was saying…..and I’m off to bed.

                  • Ted Nelson

                    That his writing comes across one way to you personally and you’d like him to change it is exactly what you’re criticizing him for.

                    You misinterpreted what he was saying, and now rather than admit your mistake you’re trying to make it seem like his fault. You are the worst. BEL is giving you a run for your money (if that’s not your other handle), but you still take the cake.

                    You object to a point that was never made… Great for you!

                    • Plank

                      So I’m the worst and you truly greatly dislike me? Must be my lucky day.

                      Kuroda or Oswalt. Otherwise, go with what you got. Don’t like it? Visit Citifield next year.

                      Seems pretty cut and dry. He either didn’t see how his words came across or he’s saving face.

                      I can see why you’re taking offense. You are the biggest stifler of speach and opinion-sharing here. You literally tell people to stop talking. It’s terrible. If you don’t like what people are talking about just ignore it.

                    • Ted Nelson

                      You interpretation isn’t the only one. At least three people disagree with your interpretation.

                      I do usually ignore you. Sometimes you’re just so wrong that I feel like pointing it out.

                    • http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse

                      Again, you’re missing the idea. He also could be saying “visit” in the literal term it is. Just because you “visit” somewhere, like a ballpark, doesn’t mean you’re necessarily a fan of that particular team. I visited SafeCo field in 2004 to see an A’s/M’s game (It was my birthday). Does that make me a Mariners fan? By visit CitiField he could mean to go there and witness the pile of shit they throw out on the field on a nightly basis compared to what the Yankees run out there, and realize that it’s not all that bad what the Yankees are going through.

                    • Plank

                      Jesse, in a reply to the post I wrote to you, he wrote “If you can’t handle anything but a championship and a team without some questions on it, you absolutely should try living your life as a fan of a team for which it isn’t a given every year.”

                      He said himself he was talking about changing fandom based on how you view the Yankees moves.

                      Maybe he was using hyperbole. He probably was. But it comes across as if he’s saying if you don’t like it, then get out. That’s not his place or anyone’s to do that. That’s the only thing I’ve said all along. No more, no less.

          • http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse

            The thing is, these Yankees do. That’s my point. I did’t mean the Yankees as a name while disregarding the talent on the team. I said those previous remarks because, let’s face it, they have a stacked offense and a stacked bullpen. They have probably the best defensive outfield in all of baseball, and a pretty good defensive infield too, and behind the plate with Russell Martin. Sure, their starting rotation isn’t a strength, but by no means is it terrible. The Yankees have a horse in Sabathia, Nova–who I think can repeat and even could be better than last year–Garcia, Hughes, and Burnett. No team is perfect. Point is, the fans like myself should be satisfied with what we’ve got already, but I’m not saying that fans shouldn’t be allowed to complain about the starting pitching situation.

            • Plank

              But demanding every position manned by an all-star is different than wanting the Yankees to improve themselves during the off-season, even if they are already a good team. No one is saying they are going to be awful next year. You highlighted areas where they aren’t the strongest. What’s wrong with wanting to improve the team?

        • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

          You got it, Jesse.

    • Troll Hunter

      Jumpin Jack your a real sarcastic POS!

  • http://www.bronxbombersreport.com Craig Maduro

    YES!

  • Ted Nelson

    Surprise, surprise… Can’t even count how many times I was told on here that the White Sox are broke, can’t sign Danks, and would be lucky to get Austin Romine for him.

    Seems like a pretty solid deal for the White Sox, too.

    • CMP

      Be careful not to injure your shoulder while patting yourself on the back.

      • Ted Nelson

        Did you actually read what I wrote? I am not patting myself on the back. I am criticizing all the people who claimed to know the White Sox financial situation, that they would trade Danks, and that it would cost next to nothing.

        • Need Pitching

          and saying that you were correct, and they were wrong.
          That’s definitely patting yourself on the back.

          • Plank

            Ted Nelson could start a game of football. Get sacked 4 straight times. The claim victory as that is what he was trying to do all along.

            • Tough Guy

              Only if he got sacked by Jason Pierre-Paul.

              Because when you make a comparison to JPP, you only mean that he was derided as a pick. Forget the obvious that fans trash their #1 pick ALL THE TIME.

              • Ted Nelson

                The fact that you really don’t understand that one aspect of two things can be compared without comparing the two things in their entirety truly amazes me.

                • Tough Guy

                  I know what you are saying. I am quite intelligent. I am saying you chose poorly. It’s funny how you are so condescending to everyone. It’s like you think your thought process is on another plane than everyone else. It’s not.

                  I am going to give you one piece of advice that you may come to understand one day. What you dislike in others is what you dislike in yourself.

                  From my vantage point, there is a lot you don’t like about yourself.

                  • thenamestsam

                    “I am quite intelligent”

                    Speaking of patting yourself on the back…

                  • Ted Nelson

                    If you understood what I was saying, you would not find JPP to be a poor example. It does not matter who the player is. I am talking about the fan reaction. I never said Dante Bichette will be a success. I never said that his swing reminds me of JPP’s pass rush. I said that there’s no reason to pass much judgement on a draft pick when it’s made. You can weigh in, but Avi literally posted about it dozens of times for weeks. Again… if you prefer a different example… good for you. It doesn’t matter what example you use. The point is not that Dante is ANYTHING like JPP. The point is that draft picks are extremely volatile and the initial mainstream reaction is wrong so often that it’s useless.

                    Save your advice. You have never met me and don’t know the first thing about me.

          • Ted Nelson

            I do not feel that I am patting myself on the back for realizing Chicago is a large market and the White Sox are a big budget team. Any moron with a computer and internet connection could be right on those counts in about 2 minutes combined. It’s not worthy of praise.

            I do think not realizing the obvious to the point of insisting you’re right is worthy of criticism. So I criticized it.

            • Need Pitching

              and now your gloating about it.
              very big of you
              and very constructive

            • Tough Guy

              Yes, that’s why smarter people than you are saying it was a peculiar move when considering their recent actions and speech.

              • Ted Nelson

                How do you have any idea how smart I am and who is smarter than me?

                Why don’t you mind your business? This is an anonymous blog, not the best space for you to continuously psychoanalyze my life. I am perfectly content with my life. Thanks.

                • Plank

                  Why don’t you mind your business?

                  So you are saying he can’t share his thoughts at all? Or can’t share his thoughts with you?

                  • Ted Nelson

                    I am pretty convinced Tough Guy and Behind Enemy Lines are handles you’ve invented in boredom…

                    I am asking that he share his opinions on baseball and not what I do and do not like about myself. Has your “Tough Guy” alter-ego shared one opinion on baseball? Or only criticized me personally? Pretty sure it’s only been listing random NFL player names and criticizing me.

                    • Plank

                      The fact that many people independently want to psychoanalyze you doesn’t throw up any red flags?

                      I personally find your ability to alternate between aggression, personal insults, limited understanding of baseball, and possessing no concept of how your words come across fascinating. All this while constantly getting disproven time and again and subsequently moving the goalposts and claiming your point was something else entirely.

                      To address your accusations, I’m not any of those people.

                      I’ve tried to talk baseball with you. You immediately start slinging insults. You are everything you complain about. With me at least. It appears you are that way with others as well.

                    • Jim Is Bored

                      Behind Enemy Lines is absolutely not Plank.

                    • Ted Nelson

                      I am getting psychoanalyzed by one psycho with three handles.

                    • Plank

                      Amazing.

                    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                      They’re all different people, Ted. I think you need to take a break, maybe sit the next few threads out.

                    • Ted Nelson

                      I literally don’t think “Tough Guy” has made one comment ever that wasn’t a direct criticism of me… and I’m the one who should sit a few threads out for questioning whether this was the same person as Plank who constantly harasses me rather than discussing baseball issues? Fuck you too, Mike.

                      And unless you know them personally I am not convinced. Plank could be using multiple devices.

                    • Plank

                      Hahahaha.

                      I just got my christmas present early.

                    • Ted Nelson

                      And you don’t have to be defensive because you were one of the people who thought the White Sox would rather give Danks away then re-sign him. Having a blog doesn’t make you always right by default.

                    • thenamestsam

                      Any chance we can get a source on Mike saying that? Or anyone else for that matter?

                    • Ted Nelson

                      thenamestsam,

                      Plank goes out of his way to annoy me on just about every thread… why is it unbelievable that he’d create multiple handles? I don’t know that he did, but it’s right in line with his general actions. I am literally wondering if Tough Guy has made one baseball related post.

                    • thenamestsam

                      I was just making a joke. I offer no opinion about whether he did or not, I just find the whole situation quite funny.

                    • Ted Nelson

                      Your joke implied that it is funny to question whether a commenter uses multiple handles. It that’s a reasonable question and Plank might be BEL and Tough Guy, why is it funny?

                      This is an anonymous blog. You just chance the name field… and you have a new handle.

                    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                      I’ve already explained to you that they are not the same person. Their IPs say they’re in three different states.

                    • Ted Nelson

                      Code to re-route an IP address is not readily available via google or anything.

                    • Plank

                      It’s true, I’m all three of these people. Plus one more. I’m really…Ted Wilson. Boom!

                    • Plank

                      Wilson Nelson

                    • Plank

                      Stepped all over the punch-line. Stupid Plank.

            • Need Pitching

              and it would take a moron to need an internet connection and 2 minutes to realize that Chicago is a big market

              They are, and have said they are, rebuilding. It would make sense for them to trade an asset within a year of free agency, big market or not. Expecting the White Sox to have traded Danks after they said they are rebuilding is completely reasonable, and has nothing to do with market size. As for what he would net in a trade, signing an extension in no way proves or disproves what it may or may not have taken to acquire him, though I agree it almost definitely would have taken quite a bit more than just Romine.

              And coming back to criticize comments that may or may not have been made in the days or weeks before, and to point out they may have been wrong, is most definitely patting yourself on the back, and is most definitely childish behavior.

              By the way, congratulations of realizing Chicago is a big market, you should be very proud of yourself.

              • Tough Guy

                That was well put!
                +1

              • thenamestsam

                Thank you. What kind of extension someone signs has no bearing on what kind of talent it would have taken to acquire them. The two facts are unrelated.

                • Ted Nelson

                  The fact that the White Sox would rather re-sign someone than give him away in a trade and the fact that they did re-sign him are unrelated?

                  • thenamestsam

                    That’s a complete rephrasing of what I said that completely changes the point and I’m pretty sure you know it. One of the things you whine about the most on here is people transforming your words and then arguing against them. Try not to do it yourself.

                    I’ll say it again, what he signed for an extension does not relate to what he would have netted in a trade. One does not prove anything about the other. Feel free to debate that point if you so choose, but I’m not going to argue about something I didn’t say.

                    • Plank

                      Why do you make the claim “America is in Europe?”

                      Let me clear that up for you. America is in North America.

                    • Ted Nelson

                      My point is exactly that I will not argue with you over something I did not say.

                      I was letting you know what I actually said, because you were strawmaning me. Transforming my words.

                      What I actually said was that the White Sox would re-sign Danks or at least attempt to before they gave him away for peanuts in a trade. You really don’t think them actually re-signing him when they could have given him away for peanuts in a trade relates to that?

                    • thenamestsam

                      Plank: I laughed. But then again, maybe I’m just another of your alter egos. Or maybe I’m not. The world will never know.

                      Ted: I don’t see how I could have been “strawmaning” you when I wasn’t even talking to you. I responded to a post by Need Pitching agreeing with something he said.

                      Back to the actual point of disagreement, the point you’re missing is that they would never trade him for peanuts, regardless of whether they could resign him. If your point was really just: “The White Sox would rather resign John Danks then trade him for nothing”, noone would ever, ever have disagreed with you. The point of contention was not that. It was that you seemed to have a very different opinion of what constituted fair value for 1 year of Danks then just about everyone else. His extension does not show that you were correct in that regard.

                    • Ted Nelson

                      Again… the two facts are related.
                      If Chicago could not afford to re-sign Danks, they either lose him for draft picks or they trade one year of him for whatever the most they can get is. If they can re-sign him, they have the leverage to turn down offers they don’t love to just re-sign a good young starter. Those are two different situations. In one a bidding team only has to outbid Chicago’s perceived value of a couple of draft picks and other teams. In the other they have to outbid Chicago’s perceived value of Danks for 5 years $60 mill and other teams.

                      Check the history of this site. Several people disagreed with that premise over and over. I never said the Yankees should give up great value for one year of Danks. That was not the discussion. I said that if they don’t give up a decent level of value… Chicago will just walk away. I was told over and over and over that I was wrong. That Chicago had to trade Danks and the Yankees wouldn’t have to part with anything but B prospects to do it (what I’d call B prospects… close, but relatively low ceiling… Romine, Phelps, Warren).

              • Ted Nelson

                You don’t seem to understand who I am criticizing. Not anyone who said Chicago might look to trade Danks to rebuild. I agree. They did look to trade him by all accounts. I am criticizing the people who thought his price would come down to a ridiculously low level because the White Sox had no leverage. The people who said they HAD to trade him, that they couldn’t re-sign him.

                This was a point made by numerous commenters as well as one or two of the RAB writers.

                Maybe take the time to understand my comment next time. If you don’t, just ask.

                And you literally say you agree with the point I was making–that his price was never going to come down to a ridiculously low level before Chicago just ponied up to re-sign the guy–yet feel the need to devote so much energy to criticizing me?

                • Need Pitching

                  I was criticizing you for patting yourself on the back over winning an argument you had days or weaks ago. Not that you thought Danks wouldn’t come cheaply. I have no problem with you arguing that point in a thread where the point was actually being argued. I just find coming back days or weeks later to make a post gloating about something from the past is incredibly weak sauce.

  • mustang

    Cole Hamels, Matt Cain, Zack Greinke, Jeremy Guthrie, Francisco Liriano, Shaun Marcum, Jonathan Sanchez and Anibal Sanchez.

    What’s left of the top 2013 free agent pitching class and by most accounts Cain is going nowhere. I will believe that Hamels makes free agency when I see it.

    Why do I think they are going to be in same spot next year?

    • Need Pitching

      if nothing else, if they don’t make a trade before then, Bettances or Banuelos should be ready to step in next year. So there’s that.

      • mustang

        “Bettances or Banuelos should be ready to step in next year”

        The key word is “should” and they still need time to develop in the MLB level so enjoy the growing pains in Yankeeland of places.
        .

        • mustang

          Yankeeland of all places.

        • Need Pitching

          of course. Just saying that the situation would be slightly improved since their top 2 pitching prospects will have had a full year of pitching above AA (barring injuries) and should be ready to at least compete for a rotation spot out of spring training

          of course how they will fare is a completely different issue

        • infernoscurse

          JOBA to the rotation!

    • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

      An extra year of development of homegrown pitchers?

      • mustang

        For Cashman sake they better develop as forecasted.

        • Need Pitching

          why? what will happen to Cashman if they don’t?

          Is this offense subject to the death penalty??

          • mustang

            No but no one is be on getting fired but we will see.

          • The Big City of Dreams

            why? what will happen to Cashman if they don’t?

            ————————-

            He’ll once again hear how the Yankees can’t develop starting pitchers

            • mbonzo

              If only they could develop starting pitchers like they do relievers.

              • The Big City of Dreams

                They would have one of the best starting staffs in baseball

            • Jim Is Bored

              Boy it’s too bad Nova sucked last year, isn’t it? Otherwise that narrative wouldn’t be as cut and dry as people think it is…

              • The Big City of Dreams

                I like Nova but he has to do it again.

                • Jim Is Bored

                  They developed IPK too. Just because IPK is thriving elsewhere doesn’t mean he wasn’t developed in the Yankee system.

                  They also developed Joba. Their handling of him has been piss-poor once he was in the majors, but plenty of teams may have not even gotten him this far. You never know.

                  And the jury is still out on Hughes, but even if he’s a 4/5 starter long term, that’s still a pitcher developed by the Yankees(Cashman can hardly shoulder blame/credit for everything that goes on).

                  • The Big City of Dreams

                    I don’t give them credit for Kennedy. IMO his turn around has more to do with the Dbacks than it does the Yankees.

    • JobaWockeeZ

      Cain will be a rich mans Freddy Garcia in the AL East, Greinke has no chance coming here, Guthrie blows, Liriano is high risk high reward, Marcum is good but not great and Sanchez is good.

      Banking on a free agent is foolish unless Hamels pulls a Dwight Howard and says I want money or I’m out.

      But hey the Danks thing is good news. Despite all the Gio hate they both posted similar FIPs/xFIps and SIERA’s and shit. Gio is expensive but it’s Gavin Floyd time.

  • G

    Not surprised, figured if Buehrle walked it was a foregone conclusion they’d keep Danks.

  • bankers hours

    Kuroda’s the best bet left. A professional, won’t need a long term deal maybe one or two years. He’s pitched to a 3 run era for about 4 yrs now, will probably be a 12 to 14 game winner with a 4 run plus era in the AL East. Won’t cost any prospects and is as good as what’s afforable and with what’s left out there. He’s proven and durable and has played on a team that hasn’t hit much for him the past 4 years. CC Nova Kuroda Garcia and either AJ of Hughes will get the Yanks to the trade deadline where they can reaccess where they need to go for the playoffs.

    • M

      I’d argue that on a one year deal Oswalt is preferable. Not as durable obviously, but his upside is much greater and the odds of him holding his own in the AL East are much better than Kuroda, who comes from a career of facing NPB and NL West hitters.

  • http://twitter.com/clintholzner Clint Holzner

    This sucks. Felt like Danks was the missing piece. Not super elite or flashy but definitive was what they needed (young, left handed, shouldn’t have taken elite prospects). This one hurts a little I think because I was just so hell bent on getting him. He’s a likable guy and a good pitcher.

    Oh well. On to the next one (which I’m actually not sure there is a next one, I think they are just going to leave the rotation as is for now).

  • RetroRob

    So if the going rate now for pitchers like Danks is $13 million a season for five years, why then is Wandy Rodriguez considered so expensive at $12 million per for three years?

    Danks is younger and has a little more pop on his fastball, but is Wandy a legit option for a mid-rotation lefty?

    • thenamestsam

      Yeah. I think Wandy gets overlooked a ton on here and I’m not really sure why. Yes he pitches in the NL Central, but he pitches for the worst team in the division, and prior to this past year he had been a consistent 3.5 FIP guy for 3 years. With the deals for Burhle and Danks his deal starts to look more reasonable. I wouldn’t give up much of anything to get him, but an established league average pitcher greatly lowers the risk for this Yankees team next year. I’d offer them Warren and a toss-in or something like that.

  • Troll Hunter

    The Yankees could really find themsleves in a tough spot in the future. They can’t sign free agent aces because teams are locking them up with extensions. (Hamels and Cain are next) They can’t trade for aces because rival GMs try to price gouge the Yankees. (Seems like they demand more from the Yanks then they do from other teams) And because of the Yankees making the playoffs every year (even though a future of first round eliminations looks possible) they will never get the top draft pics to grow their own aces. (Rays had like 10 yrs of first round picks as a result of dwelling in the basement for so long and now they got studs to spare.)

    • chas131

      Then we develop our own pitchers. ManBan better be eating his Wheaties!

  • Bronx Byte

    Screw Kenny Williams and his ludicrous demands to have top Yankee talent to have Danks. Props to Cashman for holding his ground.
    The Yankees will never get James Shields from the Rays in a deal but might get him when the Rays don’r pick up his option for 2013.
    No pitcher in baseball throws complete games and saves bullpen arms like Shields does. No even King Felix.

  • Mike HC

    Makes sense to me if the Sox were able to lock him up for that deal. I’m still a fan of Danks, just too bad the Yanks couldn’t pry him away. On to the next one.

  • jack knife

    ManBan as you call him is not the only lefty worth mentioning. Romanski
    will be a factor. He has the game and the attitude for New York
    Look at what this kid has accomplished his whole life and then get excited

  • http://www.twitter.com/brandonholley B-Rando

    I don’t get the obsession with Danks. The appeal about him was that he should have come relatively cheap. We wouldn’t need to mortgage the farm for him like you would a bigger name.

    The fact that the White Sox were demanding so much should’ve made Cashman hang the phone up instantly, which he rightly did.

    • Steve

      The demand and obsession stemmed from the fact that Mike said that he loved him. I read these boards every day and I can’t remember hearing Danks ever discussed until Mike mentioned him and from that moment on you didn’t hear anything else