Jan
11

Report: Yanks talking Edwin Jackson with Boras

By

As Joe wrote last week, it seemed nearly inevitable that the Yanks’ attention would turn to Edwin Jackson. He’s a 28-year-old Boras client who can fill innings, and the Yankees, in need of pitching, would seemingly love to bite if the price is right. The price may soon be right.

As Jon Heyman reported today, Hal Steinbrenner and Scott Boras met to discuss Jackson this evening. According to Heyman, the Yanks and their scouts “seem to like Jackson but want to keep deals short.” The CBS Sports reporter also reports that the Yanks’ owner would “think about the right deal” for Jackson.

We’ve written extensively about Edwin Jackson this winter, and you can check out our archives right here. Joe scouted Jackson in December. Personally, I’m not so high on Jackson. He’s a fine filler piece, but his numbers will slump in the AL East. If the Yanks can get him on a short-term deal that doesn’t hinder their ability to go after, say, Cole Hamels next winter, then I’m all for it. But anything more than a two-year deal isn’t something the Yanks should consider. With the Yanks also kicking the tires on Hiroki Kuroda and Roy Oswalt, the rotation may not be as set as we think it is.

Categories : Asides, Hot Stove League

118 Comments»

  1. Thomas Cassidy says:

    I like Jackson a lot, but not for five years like some people have been saying.

    I’d offer him a 2/26 with a third year option for 14 million or a 2 million buyout.

  2. Cy Pettitte says:

    Can we get the Boras black tuesday discount? 1yr/8.5mil

  3. Ty says:

    I like the idea of Jackson on a two year deal with a third year option. I don’t want to see a long-term, high cost contract though, which is inevitable with most Boras clients. His numbers last year were certainly above average, and his FIP was significantly lower than AJ Burnett’s. He would a quality short-term number two starter. That said, I don’t want to see an EJax contract prevent a move being made for a guy like Hamels (assuming the Phillies don’t give him an extension), Cain, Greinke, Marcum, or Sanchez.

  4. Steve H says:

    Glad they are talking to him. It would be irresponsible if they weren’t at least staying in touch while he’s unsigned and see if he gets to Madson territory.

  5. Total Dominication says:

    I’m fine with talking to him, but I’m very worried that it’s ownership, not Cash, doing the talking.

  6. Matt DiBari says:

    Oh good.

  7. Johnny says:

    Is it just me that pictures Boras as the creepy pimp in Taxi Driver?

    Maybe I’ve been influenced by Joe’s piece last week, but I’ve got a feeling this doesn’t bode well.

  8. Rich in NJ says:

    I really dislike when owners act as pseudo-GMs.

  9. ADam says:

    I’m fine with Cashman talking with him… not Levine or Hank/Hal

  10. kevin says:

    Why is Hal doing the talking? Where is Cashman? I too am worried about this development. Is this a Soriano repeat? What does it say about baseball operations at Yankees, Inc?

  11. BK2ATL says:

    Jackson = AJ Burnett. For why are we talking to Boras at all???

    • Rich in NJ says:

      Except he’s more likely AJ at 28, which was considerably better than AJ at 35. Still a suboptimal move unless it’s for one year, imo, and what, of course, Cash truly wants.

      • BK2ATL says:

        AJ at 28 was pitching in a pretty weak hitting NL East….

        Well, then there’s that RAB pace article from earlier today. I’d guess Jackson would “average” 4-5 walks per 9 in the AL East.

        If age is one of the main considerations, perhaps they should’ve just put more effort into Darvish.

        To sign or even consider signing Jackson is just a complete step backwards, and right in line with the Soriano signing from last year.

        • Rich in NJ says:

          But AJ’s velo was at least 3 mph faster at 28, somewhat similar to Jackson’s current velo. That leaves open the possibility (even if it’s somewhat remote) that Rothschild could coach up a pitcher with Jackson’s stuff.

          Again, I’m not in favor of signing Jackson unless it’s very, very short-term. I’m merely saying that he is likely to be better than the current version of AJ.

          I’d actually prefer that any additional funds be allocated to signing Cespedes.

          As for Darvish, it seems they weren’t interested in that kind of outlay, which, as a powerless fan, I would have supported.

          • BK2ATL says:

            Rich – You mean well. Rothschild was supposed to coach up AJ too….

            3 mph faster, but still wild, which has translated to a .500 career record with maybe average peripherals, plus there’s the 6 teams already by the age of 28 thing….Do we suddenly know something different than them?

            I’d be cool with Cespedes, but prefer to take the shot at Soler instead.

            I honestly think Darvish will be much better than Jackson has shown so far. It’s just like suddenly they decided to open the deep coffers, but for Jackson??? I really don’t get the direction right now. Not only will be have AJ Burnett sucking up a roster spot, but Soriano, and then Jackson too?????

        • Steve (different one) says:

          AJ came to Toronto at 29 and threw 522 innings of 112 ERA+. Let’s not act like AJ was a National League mirage.

  12. CJ says:

    Jackson is a #4 starter, call him a 2 and call it an offseason

  13. mustang says:

    “Hal Steinbrenner and Scott Boras met to discuss Jackson this evening.”

    A-Rod and Soriano contracts never a good sign when Cashman is not involved. Every once in a while George’s genes kick in.

    • Apples to oranges. Steinbrenner gets his name in the press here because the face-to-face with Boras happened at the Owners’ Meetings in Phoenix. Hal hasn’t been one to go above Cashman’s head. Meanwhile, those two deals you referenced happened on Hank’s and Randy Levine’s watches. I think this is an OK situation for the Yanks if they’re intent on negotiating here.

      • mustang says:

        Good points, but with that said anything over 2/30 for Jackson doesn’t seem good to me. What do you think? What’s a reasonable deal?

      • Rich in NJ says:

        This quote suggests otherwise:

        And the general manager didn’t want to lose his first-round pick in June’s amateur draft, which will now go to Tampa Bay as compensation

        “I think it’s certainly a sign that at times if Hal feels that he wants to go in a different direction, that could happen,” Cashman said. “I think that’s certainly the case. This is their team. Does that happen often? Will it happen a lot? I just think it depends on the circumstances.”

  14. nickbart says:

    maybe they met to discuss prince…

  15. Soxhata says:

    Although the Yanks fiscal frugality is boring-in light of the Marlins,who get less people in the stands,than the Yanks get at the concessions,I would pass on Jackson.Though he looked great against the Yanks the few times I saw him.Oswalt is the best one year option if his back passes a physical.He is a proven winner.

    • jsbrendog says:

      he is? how so? how is roy oswalt a proven winner? he’s done well. in the nl central. and for a yr in the nl east. he doesn’t have much playoff experience but did do alright in the games he’s been in. he is an old pitcher with a bad back on aodwnward spiral who has never won anything.

      im not saying i dont want to sign him but this whole trying to create a narrative thing just doesn’t work for me.

      • jsbrendog says:

        and he’s coming off one of the worst statistical seasons of his career. can you say it was a blip and not the decline phase?

        regardless of all this i still want them to try and sign him.

  16. Jonathan says:

    It never ceases to amaze me that these executives, that don’t know jack about baseball, pay entire front offices of baseball experts millions of dollars to make these decisions…and then randomly every once in awhile decide they know more than the baseball guys. See Tony Womack/Jaret Wright/Rafael Soriano/2nd ARod deal/Sheffield over Vlad etc. If you think you know better than Cashman then why even fucking have a GM? If Cash was talking to him I’d think it was because we had a chance to get him for like 1 year with an option or something but is ANYONE confident that Levine or the owners won’t come away with some sort of miserable Soriano-like contract? You would think Cash would see or hear about this and just shove the Soriano situation down their throats until they realized wtf they were doing.

    We need to stick at 1 year deals (and I’d love to have Jackson on a 1 year deal but I find it highly unlikely) with guys like Oswalt/Colon/Kuroda if we do anything and then go hard after Hamels/Greinke.

  17. RkyMtnYank says:

    I’m doing my best Tebow impression at this point to hope Hal and Cash are on the same page. Anything more than 2yrs for Jackson would be foolish considering what they already passed up this off season and certainly contradict the ” what we have in house is just as good” philosophy. Let the kids play!!!

    • Kosmo says:

      Signing Jackson seems more like an insurance policy and I think it speaks volumes about the FA feeling a bit insecure moving forward with what they currently have slated for 3-5.
      Jackson is at least on paper in MO an upgrade over Hughes, Garcia and Burnett.
      If NY does sign Jackson someone will undoubtedly get bumped out of the starting rotation. Is it possible NY has found someone to take AJ off their hands ?
      I can see NY signing Jackson to a 3 year 33-36 million contract but no more than that.

      • Chip says:

        If they’re serious about the 2014 payroll thing, then we’re looking at a 2 year deal at a maximum. I’m sure that the Yankees have informed Boras that they’re willing to consider it for something like 2/24 but that’s it.

        Actually, the thing that bothers me the most in this whole deal is that signing Jackson would almost undoubtedly put Hughes into the bullpen. I’m definitely a Hughes backer and think that last season was a perfect storm of innings catching up to him, injuries and the sophomore slump. And yes, I’m probably blind to his weaknesses but I’m a fan and don’t make important decisions :)

        • Craig Maduro says:

          Who knows, maybe Burnett would end up in the ‘pen. At the very least, each guy in the back of the rotation would have to come to Spring Training ready to produce. We can’t complain about that.

          • Kosmo says:

            Burnett in the pen ? Soriano AND Burnett in the bullpen. 30 million per between them for an occasional inning. Two hamburgers for the price of filet mignon. Barring injury NY pen is already set for 2012.

            • Steve (different one) says:

              How is the bullpen set? There are 2 spots open. And AJ’s money is gone, that should no longer factor in the decision.

      • jsbrendog says:

        edwin jackson, league average or below in every year of his career except for 09 in detroit. not much of an upgrade (except over AJ i guess.)

  18. Brett says:

    Perhaps this is just Jon Heyman helping Scott Boras to get other teams to bite.

  19. gargoyle says:

    Why the lack of interest in Oswalt?

  20. Wil Nieves Number 1 Fan says:

    But…if we sign Jackson, there won’t be room for Felix :(

  21. Bavarian Yankee says:

    omg, AGAIN!?

    if Cash doesn’t want him and Steinbrenner signs Jackson then Cash should resign because it’s useless. There’s no need for a GM when the ownership is making horrible moves every offseason and Hal doesn’t even seem to realize that this would be another epic fail.

    • Captain says:

      who said Cashman doesn’t want him? it seems the sticking point to the FA pitchers for Cashman and the organization has been their price, not the pitchers themselves. we’ll see how this plays out though, if its another Soriano situation, then what you said makes sense.

  22. Rainbow Connection says:

    2012: Colon
    2013: Hamels

  23. mt says:

    Can’t wait to hear Cashman explain this away if Steinbrenners sign EJax to some outrageous contract.

    If I were Yanks, I would be nasty and say if the young, good performing Ryan Madson can do a one year deal so can EJax (who I think has more question marks than a Ryan Madson given EJax transition to AL East) – tell Boras that Yanks now want to shop in the Madson section of the supermarket, rather than the overpiced Soriano aisle.
    One year deal plus an option (with a maybe rich buyout like $3-4 million so Boras can save some face.) Given Kuroda and Oswalt are age/injury concerns, I would prefer EJax to both of them (on a one year deal).

    If we sign him to a 3-5 year deal, we are idiots. My main concern is not having enough money for 2013 class (whatver it may turn out to be) if we sign EJax. Even if Cain and Hamels sign before next year, I might prefer Anibal Sanchez and Brandon McCarthy to a long-term EJax.

    Trying to loook at this negative information as a positivem is it possible that Hank and Cashman can pull off a good cop/ bad cop routine to get Ejax prices down? Cashman acts totally not interested but Hank keeps interest but only “at right price”

  24. TogaSean says:

    Why do I feel like this is going to end very badly? I hope I’m wrong, but man I have a bad feeling about how this is gonna go. If its a 1 or 2 yr deal with an option, that’s manageable, but my gut says this is gonna be a 4 yr deal if Cash isn’t doing the negotiating here….Ugh.

  25. JobaWockeeZ says:

    So if we sign him is it a genius signing for the people who compeltely detest more than one year of him? Can’t wait to see the reaction if it happens.

  26. Dropped Third says:

    I have a wierd faith that they wont go above 2years plus an option year. I am also sure the hank knows about the free agents next winter and wont put him self in a position to not afford him. God please let me be right.

  27. lordbyron says:

    I wonder if Randy Levine is warming up and getting set to ‘close’ this one for Hal?

  28. Rich in NJ says:

    The more I think about this potential move, the less I like it, and hope that they are merely doing Boras a favor by driving the price up for another team.

  29. MannyGeee says:

    I think ‘talking’ is OK. As others had mentioned earlier, it would be irresponsible for us to not at least ‘talk’ to Boras about Jackson, considering he is still out there and guys like Maholm are getting picked up.

    Remember, Scott Boras was the same agent who brokered the 1 year Mega-Deals for Carlos Pena & Adrian Beltre to get their value up (with mixed results)….

    For all we know, Boras/Jackson may be at that point, why wouldn’t the Yankees get in line first for that opportunity (again, all speculation, but jus sayin)

  30. Ted Nelson says:

    I really don’t understand this pervasive insistence that Jackson is not good. Guy has put up numbers similar to Danks the past three years–he’s 20th in fWAR in that span–with most of his success coming for the same team as Danks. Guy has put up those numbers for four teams in three divisions.

    I could see calling him a 3 rather than a 2, but a 4 strikes me as ludicrous given his track record.

    Also, can we quantify the AL East effect already? Every time a pitcher is discussed it’s simply “he can’t pitch in the AL East.” Obviously there’s no one-size-fits-all divisional translation, but can we at least establish an average so that people don’t just fall on the “can’t pitch in the AL East” excuse any time they don’t like a pitcher? Lots of guys have pitched well in the AL East. It’s a tough division, but somehow guys manage. And it’s a lot easier when you don’t have to face the Yankees’ line-up.
    I doubt that every other division outside of the AL East is just equally horrible, and while the schedule’s weighted every team in the same league plays each other. No matter what other division a guy comes from it seems like a lot of people just say it’s an equally terrible division because it’s not the AL East.

    • thenamestsam says:

      Thank you. The Danks comparison is the one that really blows me away. People in here would have been throwing a party for Cashman if he had gotten Danks while trading away a couple of prospects. Yet the prospect of getting a guy with exactly the same numbers with a proven track record of success who is still quite young makes them all terrified and fear for the future of the team.

      He throws 200 innings every year. He has improved his FIP significantly every year for the last 4. He’s 28 years old. I honestly don’t see anything not to like about him. Is he a stud, #1 pitcher? No, but 15 million a year doesn’t buy you that any more. H’s a 3.5-4 WAR pitcher, and if they can lock him up at a reasonable rate for 3 or 4 years you don’t not do it just because a better pitcher might be available next year who you might be able to sign.

      Honestly I think the reason he gets so much grief on here is because Mike doesn’t love him. Mike loves Danks so everyone loves Danks. Mike doesn’t love EJax so nooone loves EJax.

      • Steve (different one) says:

        Apples and oranges with re: danks.

        If the yankees get Jackson for the 1 year $10m that danks had on his contract, people would be thrilled. People are mostly reacting to the possibility of 4-5 years at big money.

        • thenamestsam says:

          I think most people would have wanted them ro resign Danks though. Anyway how can people be complaining about the contract when we have no idea what the contract might be? If people are saying this will be a goodsigning if they get a good deal, and a bad one if they get a bad deal, that’s pretty pointless, and it’s not what people are saying anyway. People seem to be saying they’re only okay with it if they get an absolute steal, which doesn’t make much sense to me.

          • mt says:

            I did not want them to resign Danks – wanted to try him out for a year and then maybesee to resign him next year after seeing whether Cain/Hamels available. Then resign him if he is the best fit in terms of comfort with his one year performance and whether other pitchers are available.

            Getting Danks for one year ensured that there would be at least one viable #2 type that would be available.

            • Ted Nelson says:

              You wanted the Yankees to trade a top prospect or two for one year or Danks? 6 years of Montero, Manny, or Dellin is worth one year of Danks?

              • Steve (different one) says:

                No, but that is not what was being argued. The implication was that people wanted Danks. I think it is a given in these parts that NO ONE wanted Danks in exchange for Montero or even ManBan.

                • BK2ATL says:

                  That’s exactly right. People wanted Danks for the one year, but without giving up Banuelos or Montero. Betances was debatable.

                • Ted Nelson says:

                  The argument was that trading for one year of Danks was better than multiple years… I disagree with that.

                  Then mt said “wanted to try him out for a year and then maybesee to resign him next year after seeing whether Cain/Hamels available.” To try him out for a year, the Yankees would necessarily have to trade for him. So, it was implied in that statement that mt wanted to trade for Danks.

    • Newton says:

      He’s already pitched in the A.L. East for Tampa a few years ago, and I believe he was 14-9 and went to the WS with them. He was drafted originally as an out fielder and converte to pitcher…perhpas his best years are still ahead since he’s only been pitching about eight years???

  31. Favrest says:

    If he was worth 50 million over 4 years other teams would he after him too. This is not what we need. CC Nova, Hughes Freddy and AJ and 5 good arms at AAA breathing down their throats.

  32. mike says:

    My only issue with Jackson is I believe (as does most everyone else) the Yanks need a high-end pitcher behind Sabathia who could offer shut-down potential in the playoffs. Jackson does not provide that certainty.

    Whether Colon or Garcia or AJ or Phelps round out the rotation, IMO the Yanks are a “playoff” team, as over the full season their offense, Sabathia and pen will get them to 90+ wins.

    However, getting a #2 is the goal….and as long as Jackson doesnt preclude that addition, then I’m ok with it – and let Phil, AJ and Nova be on notice to show up ready to go

  33. Grover says:

    I don’t understand why the Yanks are looking at any pitching unless it is a big trade for a stud starter along the lines of Felix. I’m never against posturing to raise prices on other teams but none of the available free agent starters are worth even one year Madsen-type deals versus the potential of one of the revolving door sixth starters from Scranton surprising to the upside. I still see a more pressing need for a lefty bat off the bench unless Dickerson is the answer.

  34. kenthadley says:

    I’d rather Oswalt or Kuroda on one year over Jackson (plus losing first rounder). He’s depth, not improved quality. If it was a clear #2, that would be different, since we currently don’t have that. Jackson doesn’t make me feel any better in game 2 of the playoffs than the best of what we currently have after CC, not to mention what we might pick up in June/July.

  35. Total Dominication says:

    Jackson is basically a right-handed John Danks. People are starting to seriously underrate him.
    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....n-jackson/

    • Owen G says:

      Thanks for linking that. I had read it but forgotten about it. Some excellent points in there particularly busting the misconceptions that Edwin still suffers from below average control and is wildly inconsistent from start to start.

      I am starting to warm up to a potential Jackson signing even if it is 4 years or so. I think anything less than 4/50 and he returns positive value even if the last year or two are negative.

      Also, I don’t get the premise that Cashman should have 100% autonomy. You will find no GM/CEO in any industry, save owner/managers, who enjoy such.

      While I generally agree that owners should cede control to their baseball people I completely accept that if an owner is willing to make a financial commitment to improve the team that that is their right and people shouldn’t get worked up about it.

      We are not talking about a franchise crippling Zito/Wells type deal here. Jackson is a good-not great starter that I believe meets the “clearly better than Nova/Garcia” definition even if we may not agree with the eventual financial terms.

      • Rich in NJ says:

        Also, I don’t get the premise that Cashman should have 100% autonomy. You will find no GM/CEO in any industry, save owner/managers, who enjoy such.

        Really, you support non-baseball experts making baseball decisions?

        Where do you see that mindset work effectively in other industries?

        Danks would have been here on a one year deal. Unless the same is true of Jackson, I don’t get the utility of the comparison.

        • MannyGeee says:

          Really, you support non-baseball experts making baseball decisions?

          yup, him and every other armchair GM in this blog…

        • Owen G says:

          I actually said that I think owners should let their baseball people make decisions. What I was challenging was the notion that some people seem to have that Cashman should throw in the towel because from time to time his bosses flex their financial muscle and/or overrule him.

          • Rich in NJ says:

            So you agree that he should have 100% autonomy on baseball decisions?

            • Owen G says:

              I think more often than not his employers should defer to his wisdom. But I also recognize that it is their team and from time to time they are going to disagree and overrule. All I’m suggesting is that it is naive to think that any other GM/CEO of a privately held business doesn’t have to deal with this to some extent.

              And I’m ok with that…so long as it adds talent and doesn’t cripple the franchise for the long term.

              • Rich in NJ says:

                You didn’t really answer the question.

                In the aggregate, the A-Rod and Soriano contracts significantly restrict the Yankees’ payroll flexibility if they are intent on maintaining or reducing their current budget.

                It’s naive to think otherwise.

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      I think people just extremely overrated Danks.

    • BK2ATL says:

      If such were the case, why is St. Louis, with the great Dave Duncan as pitching coach, not lining up to sign him to a long-term deal????

      Who’s underrating him? The 6 MLB teams that he previously played for before the age of 29??? All of them currently need SP. What does Fangraphs have to quantify that fact?

      I think he’s a decent pitcher, but not an upgrade over what we already have. I’d pass.

      Boras is now desperate since other teams aren’t biting. Once Cashman stayed out of the FA market, things got pretty tight in the FA market. Madsen had to settle for a 1 year deal with options, after getting burned by greed out of a guaranteed 4 yr deal. Fielder won’t get what he wants. He’ll end up having to settle for substantially less.

      Cashman knows what he’s doing. It’s our idiot ownership meddling in his plans that’ll be our own downfall this decade. They shouldn’t be in these conversations, esp. directly with Boras, until the very end.

  36. Chris says:

    If ownership wants to spend the money on Jackson then fine. If Cash wanted to thats a different story. As long as ownership feels its ok to spend that cash knowing what it might do to the 2014 budget then who cares? If they are ok with going over the lux tax then who are we to complain. It would be nice if they were under and made that money back but at the end of the day who knows just how much cash the Yanks have. It could be as simple as they don’t care about the tax or savings. Anytime ownership is willing to spend money and add to the set budget then fine. If Cashman decided to spend his last few dollars on Jackson and hamstring the team for a few years, thats a different story.

  37. Gerald Williams says:

    I feel like Jackson wouldn’t be a terrible edition at 1 or 2 years. Anything more is an awful move. I agree with Total Dominication… he’s better than a lot of people are giving him credit for.

  38. Jose M. Vazquez.. says:

    If they sign Jackson to a 1-2 year deal I’m ok with it. If they don’t sign him I’ll be happier. At this point, despite many of you fans out there saying that he is an upgrade over what we have, I’m not at all convinced.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      He has been better than any Yankees besides CC each of the past three years… If that doesn’t convince you he’s an upgrade, what will? I’m not saying sign the guy at all costs or even sign the guy at all if they want the young guys to get a chance… but in terms of talent and performance it seems pretty obvious to me that he’s an upgrade.

  39. Juke Early says:

    If he changes his name to Win Jackson, sign him for a year. Other than that, do they really need another 5.5 inning bridge to the bully? Run out the kids & let them get a decent shot at show level starts.

  40. Mike S. says:

    Can someone please tell me how a career .500 pitcher, with an ERA of 4.4 and a whip of almost 1.5 is an upgrade????

    • Ted Nelson says:

      Career numbers aren’t a very good sample to use with a guy who came up at 19 years old and has been considerably better the last three years than before that.

      • BK2ATL says:

        How about his 2011 performance, including with St. Louis under the tutelege of the great Dave Duncan? Are they lining up to re-sign? And they NEED pitching.

        Something’s there that 6 teams (Dodgers, Rays, Detroit, Arizona, White Sox, and St. Louis) certainly know, but no one here is paying attention.

        We already have AJ Burnett. Do we really need another, even at “just” 1 yr, $10 million?

        • Ted Nelson says:

          Huh?

          His 2011 performance was strong. 3.8 fWAR, 3.1 bWAR, 3.79 ERA, 3.55 FIP, 199.2 IP…

          Are you aware that Adam Wainwright is coming back from TJS? Wainwright, Carpenter, Garcia, Lohse, Westbrook, and McClellan… their rotation is already full.

          What is there that those teams know and you are paying attention to?

          How is Edwin Jackson comparable to AJ Burnett?

    • JMK says:

      Yeah and who cares about his record? It’s irrelevant.

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