Tuesday Night Open Thread


(REUTERS/Robert Sorbo)

This is it, the final West Coast night game of the season. The Yankees and Mariners will play a matinee tomorrow and after they get home, the Bombers won’t have a flight longer than New York to Tampa for the rest of the year. Pretty sweet. Those mid-September trips out west are always the worst.

Here is tonight’s open thread. The Mets are playing the Nationals again (Dickey vs. Gio) and MLB Network will air the Dodgers and Cardinals (Kershaw vs. Wainwright) a little later on. Talk about those games or anything else on your mind until the regular game thread comes along.

Categories : Open Thread


  1. CS Yankee says:

    Those mid-September trips out worst are always the worst.

    Did you mean “..those trips out west are always the worst.”


    “…those liverwurst sandwiches are the worst.”?

  2. vinny-b says:

    off topic:

    am getting a kick out of all the ‘experts’ who have Ichiro dead & buried, as a productive MLB player.

    personally, I don’t believe this is the case. And don’t believe he is the ‘typical’ 38 year old person

    • Nathan says:

      If Ichiro does nothing else other than play a good LF, deter a few runners from scoring on him and steal a few bases, I’ll be happy.

      People act as if the Yankees are asking Ichiro to bat 3rd or lead off or be the Yankees best player.

  3. Jacob says:

    On a scale of 1-10 mikes love for ichiro coming to the yankees seems to be at 1000

    • Mike Axisa says:

      Not even close. I’m at about a 5 only because they gave up little. I just hope they have the balls to DFA him if necessary.

      • Jacob says:

        Oh lol I was just going off all the pictures and kind of poking fun of the guy yeterday complaining about it

      • CS Yankee says:

        A 7 on the trade scale.

        Don’t like the aging Vet, former star stays and takes the play time regardless.

        The only way he gets DFA’d is that he hits below the Mendoza line…even so, they’ll PR it to a wounded warrior type meme.

      • RetroRob says:

        They won’t DFA him even if he hits .200. He’ll just play less and less and will end up being a defensive replacement, pinch runner, part timer. He’ll play the 5th OFer role. Basically, he has to make it five weeks before the rosters expand. He’s not going anywhere.

        That said, I expect he’ll do more than well enough to play reguarly, even if the value he brings is more on the defensive side.

        I did see that in addition to making sure he was okay with not playing RF, not batting at the top of the lineup, and not getting his #51, the Yankees also made sure he was okay with sitting against lefties from time to time. He agreed to all the conditions, so the Yankees should use him accordingly.

    • CS Yankee says:


      At 2.25 for 40+% of the season, plus a 8th SP & a DFA-MRP…its a steal. No check that, its a steal and a half.

      The Grit’ is gone, Swish is having leg problems for the 2nd (or 3rd) time this year. This is all upside, even if it leads to a reduced Upton package, this is pure gold.

      Mike does like Jones a bit too much…not sure which pisses me off worse, his K’s and breaking stuff a foot out of the zone or the sundial used to time him for a ball hit in the gap?

      However, Jones does hit some shots, too bad there is no extra credit for 400+’ blast.

      • Jacob says:

        I am having trouble grasping the point you are trying to get across?

        • CS Yankee says:

          1) Solid pickup by Cash
          2) 2/3rds of the planned OF creates this need…in knowing that need Arizona would ask for a kings ransom due to the dire need…this reduces that need which should make such trade (if possible) done on a more neutral ground.
          3) If Mike has a player crush, it would be Jones
          4) Jones pisses me off 2/3rds of the time, but the moon shots he hits are real fricken cool.


    • yooboo says:

      How strong do you agree with Paul Molitor being a Hall of Famer?

      The reason I ask is the comparison for Derek Jeter as a hall of fame worthy. Jeter was the first Yankee hit over 3k but his stats are underwhelming comparing to Gehrig, Mantle, Ruth, etc. I don’t like to use Phil Rizzuto to support Jeter.

      Molitor has 500 SB which Jeter will never reach. Molitor has 600 doubles and 115 triples but Jeter is about 100 behind for extra bases combo. Jeter should match or surpass Molitor’s hits this season. RBI is doable with 60 RBIs for 3 more seasons. Despite Molitor was tough to strike out, his OBP is lower than Jeter.

      Molitor’s 500 SB and 115 Triples are reason Jeter’s status is not better than Molitor. Jeter needs to rake up as close as he can to Paul Molitor’s status.

      • Jacob says:

        Are you trying to say Jeter is not a HOF? I think you are Stuart with a new name. Molitor didn’t play SS as long as Jeter for one so the comparison is not very accurate in those regards.

      • CS Yankee says:

        Molitor was a stud.

        Jeter doesn’t need to do shit.

        He is clearly HoF worthy. .316 lifetime BA that cover over 15 seasons, five rings, clean, class-act player.

        He is clearly top 10 Yankee all-time.
        He is clearly top 5 all-time SS.
        He will likely end in the top 5-6 in hits, runs and rings.

        • yooboo says:

          I focus on only stats. no personality or championships because people will use stats to separate players for whatever reason. I like to kill those whiners who will use stats to put Jeter down.

          Molitor is only thing I think Jeter can match up favorably. Molitor raked up stats as a 3rd hitter and Jeter rarely bats 3rd.

          • CUYanks says:

            Do you really think everyone in the Hall of Fame measures up to Ruth, Gehrig, and Mantle? Those are some inner circle HoF’ers there.

            • yooboo says:

              While you can’t measure Jeter up to those special Yankees, who do you measure up for Jeter?

              Ricky Henderson?
              Cal Ripken?

              I place Derek Jeter ahead of Barry Larkin easily and Larkin is a weak HOFer. I need a stronger HOFer for Jeter to match or close to.

              RetroRob already said Molitor was a stud. That is good enough for me.

          • CS Yankee says:

            Thought you were Troll or using sarcasm, no worries.

            Jeter should hold his own in using stats with very little exception. Including;
            1) lack of power…never claimed to be Ruth. He played SS and very, very few (Arod, Cal) had power there.
            2) range…while not Ozzie/Omar great, he was/is solid in the other facets that make up for most of the range concerns, like fielding %, and fly balls, and tags/cuts.
            3) SB…his success rate is really solid. In general, a 70-75% is worth the steal, he is a 80% guy.

            Stats do (in my book) include WS rings…he made the playoffs almost 95% of the time, won 5 of 7 (so far) in the WS. His power surged in the postseason, he has another year worth of numbers when you add those numbers to his totals.

            He has banged more models than any SS in the history of the game, including Arod.

            • yooboo says:

              WS is a sticky situation because you need a full team to accomplish a feast.

              Arod and Ripken are one of best SS in history but they have only 1 ring each if my memory serves me right.

              Jeter does not have any sextape as right now so it does not qualify. lol. Can’t wait for Minka Kelly’s…

              • CS Yankee says:

                He doesn’t have to get on base to be productive but getting on base is always productive. Anyone on this team should be able to move a guy over…think Arod can’t bunt? Joe chooses not to do that and when he did that with Grit’ (who ironically, per my words above, can’t bunt) most blew a gasket.

                Bat him 8th or 9th…
                or use him as a late-inning BOLHGY (Bat Only, Late inning Hitter GuY)

              • CS Yankee says:

                Feast? Do you mean feat?
                Because of course, it takes a team of hungry young eaters to accomplish a feast. It only takes a few hot hitters to go along with solid pitching (or hot pitchers with solid hitting) to win as its a short series. Jeter numbers have not fallen overall 9in fact better power), he is no Albert or Barry.

                Rings are exclusive to getting in the HoF, but they greatly help, and the more you have the better. Ask Yogi, he has one for each thumb.

                • yooboo says:

                  Yankees still lead the number of WS rings so it is pointless to use rings to separate hof players.

                  yeah Feat, Feat+Beast= Feast.. lol.

                  One day, I will review the entire HOF for better comparison and breakdown.

          • YanksFanInBeantown says:

            The only career SS with more wRC is Honus Wagner.

            Their is no statistical argument to exclude Jeter from the Hall.

      • RetroRob says:

        Molitor is an easy HOFer. Jeter will be a first ballot HOFer who is ranked as one of the top ten SS’s ever.

      • Bunt Gardner says:

        Molitor – 75.2 fWAR; Jeter – 75.4 fWAR and still playing.

    • yooboo says:

      Ichiro sells well for sure. I hope he finishes the season at least 280 avg and 20 SB and as another Japanese World Series Hero.

    • sangreal says:

      Mike said before the trade that they would have to send prospects along with Ichiro before he would want to take Ichiro

  4. Knoxvillain says:

    I’m waiting, Tom Marvolo Riddle. I see the Angels and Rays are talking about a Shields trade with Bourjos, Conger, and maybe Santana heading to Tampa Bay. I love that for the Angels. Giving up a three nobodies for a solid number two starter. I just hope Bourjos gets traded because I’m seriously sick of people talking about him like he is a good player.

    • Kramerica Industries says:

      Careful what you wish for.

      Ervin Santana would probably become an ace if he went to Tampa. That’s what they do.

      • yooboo says:

        not as a starter for sure. A closer is a real possibility.

        He lacks change to meet Maddon’s rotation’s merit requirement.

        • Jacob says:

          Yea you are right if only they could try to teach him it but unfortunately you are born with and die with whatever pitches you get :(

    • Lol, I just didn’t think what you said about banning gay marriage was very nice. I’m sure you meant nothing serious by it, but came across as semi insensitive. But that’s not really important.

      As for the trade, Santana isn’t exactly a nobody, and even though Shields isn’t having a great season, but Idk how I feel about him on the Angels, that could make them a really dangerous team.

      • Knoxvillain says:

        What was it that I said that wasn’t very nice? It was pretty late. I hope Shields stays in Tampa but Santana has been terrible this year. He’s too inconsistent it seems like. Some games he’s on, and other games he looks like a high school pitcher. I’m not sure why he’s been so bad this year.

  5. Cy Pettitte says:

    Pedro Ciriaco DHing and batting 2nd tonight
    $140mil man Carl Crawford batting 7th


    • Kramerica Industries says:

      Would love to see Texas sweep them, and then the Yankees do the same.

      If everything breaks right, the margin could be 15.5 after Sunday. And I’d bet there would still be some people here using them as “the” measuring stick.

      • CUYanks says:

        Winning the number 1 seed might be huge this year, so we probably should be rooting for Texas to lose as much as possible.

        • CS Yankee says:


          I have a t-shirt that reads “I root for two teams, the Yankees and whoever plays against the Red Sox”. This year however, the Red Sox seem pathetic (or moreso than usual), and i’m more concerned that the best record could go to Texas.

          We need the best record, so that when the Angels play either the BoSox, Rays or Indians we either get a lesser team or a thinned-out Angel rotation/pen.

          • CUYanks says:

            Yeah, the burning of the starter in a one-game playoff could be a huge disadvantage. We want to be on the good end of that.

            • CS Yankee says:

              Plus, for the 2nd playoff team, it could be two starters…one to get the last seat, one to win the playoff game.

            • Kramerica Industries says:

              I mentioned this a few days ago in a GDT – do we want the Yankees to possibly be on the receiving end of having to make a trip to California for a playoff game in the space of a day, given the screwed up schedule this year?

              This truly might be the one year where being a #1 has more disadvantages than advantages. Sure, it means home field in the ALCS if the #1 and #2 win, but you have to get there first.

              Too many variables to truly speculate right now, so obviously the mentality is win, win win, but this is an important factor to remember when discussing the current race the Rangers and Yankees are in.

              • CUYanks says:

                I think the burning of a number 1 starter in a 5 game series probably outweighs the possible travel effects, but it’s definitely an issue.

          • jjyank says:

            Haha I have the same shirt!

    • RI$P FTW says:

      To be fair, AJ is pitching for the Pirates and Igawa has been sent to hell.

  6. The Real Greg says:

    An important overlooked stat about Ichiro. He leads the AL in AB’s per K. He strikes out about 1 every 10 at bats. Why is this important? You can put on a hit and run with him. Also with that percentage, he can be adept at moving runners up and not striking out, or getting runners in from 3rd. When you have a team that struggles in hitting with RISP, moving runners along is big.

    • yooboo says:

      He already hit into DP 10 times and one away from his career high and the season is not even over.

      I like Ichiro after Martin because Martin likes to run but Jeter will bat after Ichiro. Terrible sequence.

      Ichiro should bat after Arod and Swisher should bat after Ichiro. It should help play a small game better.

      • Knoxvillain says:

        It would help the small game better if Ichiro actually got on base. If he is hitting in front of Swisher then Jeter and Granderson must be on the DL.

        • yooboo says:


          Ichiro would bat after Arod and before Swisher.

          5. Arod.
          6. Ichiro.
          7. Swisher.

          Arod either gets on base or clear bases with one swing. Once he is aboard, he likes to run. Ichiro will slap a ball onto ground to avoid potential DP. Swisher takes pitches more than enough so means Ichiro has opportunity to steal bases.

          Ichiro and Jeter must not hit back to back.

          When Ichiro is aboard, he wont have a shot to steal base because Jeter is a overly free swinger. When Jeter is aboard, he does not always go for stealing bases and Ichiro has to hit well to move Jeter to 3rd.

          • Knoxvillain says:

            Why in the world would he bat 6th? He gets on base less than Martin. Putting him in the middle of the order won’t help the team at all.

            • The Real Greg says:

              Oh my lord…

              He doesnt have to get on base to be productive. He can move a leadoff double onto sacrifice position. You can hit and run with him, He’s not going to strike out with a runner on third and less than two outs. Think a little bit.

              • Mike Axisa says:

                That won’t happen nearly enough to make up for all the extra at-bats he’s getting at the expense of substantially better hitter. Hit-and-runs are cute little games for the bottom of the order, not the six hitter on a World Series contender.

                • The Real Greg says:

                  I agree with that. Leave him at 7-9

                  Just don’t let yourself think that he can only be productive if he gets on base.

                • CS Yankee says:

                  Isn’t the worst lineup versus the best lineup totals up like 2 wins per year?

                  We are winning this by 15 games, will have the best record in baseball. Book it.

                  BTW, he should hit 8th or 9th.

                • yooboo says:

                  Move Arod to 6th, then

                  I talked about at plate and base runner tendency to make a cute small game work.

                  To think the lineup of this sequence,




                  Hit and run will be a major failure with those sequence despite they are well runners.

              • Knoxvillain says:

                There isn’t much to think about. It would just be a stupid move.

      • The Real Greg says:

        I’m talking about having a man on second and nobody out. He can move the runner to third and make it easier for the Yankees, who have been bad with RISP, to score.

        • yooboo says:

          I understand but Martin has to hit for double or hit for a base and steals 2nd base to make it happen for Ichiro.

          When to ph Ichiro, I absolutely am with you. However, it is all depending on score. 2 or more runs down, Chavez or Jones in for home run. 1 down or tie, Ichiro in.

          I think Yanks still suck at RISP when baserunner is on 3rd. I don’t know if Ichiro can fix it, though.

    • Need Pitching (and maybe hitting too) says:

      He’s been pretty good at moving runners in general, but not very good at getting runners in from third with < 2 out. Ichiro 45%, league average 53%. (Noted K artists Jones and Granderson at 43% and 42%, for perspective)

      Although 45% would still be an improvement over most of the current Yankees, bested only by Tex-58%, Stewie – 56%, and Ibanez – 50%.

  7. pete says:

    For any music people on here: NPR.org is currently streaming Christian Scott’s new album, Christian Atunde Adjuah. And it’s really, really, really good.

    link: http://www.npr.org/2012/07/22/.....h#playlist

    • RI$P FTW says:

      I’m listening now. I assumed it would terrible (because of his previous work), but it’s really good.
      Interesting. I’m glad he stopped with the terrible smooth jazz/instrumental pop crap. This is somewhat modern, but not embarrassing. Maybe that’s the deal he made with the record company. Make an embarrassing album, then we’ll let you make something you want to make. Or did he switch labels?

      What ever happened to Maurice Brown? He can really play. Ego-driven, of course, but he can play.
      It’s amazing how much better these younger players sound than the previous generation of young lions (Nicholas and Roy). These younger kids have a depth that Nicholas and Roy never had and still don’t. They also out-ego those shallow ego-driven players.

      Sadly, there are many players no one’s ever heard of who are better than any of these guys.

      • pete says:

        I have to say, I’ve heard a lot of labels used to describe Christian Scott, but “Smooth Jazz/Instrumental Pop” is definitely not one of them…

        Also, which Nicholas? Which Roy? Haynes? Roy Haynes is generationless. Dude is 90 years old and he’s still one of my favorite young drummers, along with Antonio Sanchez and Jamire Williams (who plays on this album)

  8. CUYanks says:

    Every iffy game for the Red Sox and Crawford is a step closer to Tommy John Surgery…

  9. The Real Greg says:

    I just think a lot of people are being narrow minded and not understanding the possibilities of having a guy like this. Both in the media and here.

    • Knoxvillain says:

      This is not 2005. This is 2012. Ichiro was a good pick up for defense and base running.

      • The Real Greg says:

        I get that he doesn’t hit as well anymore. But he doesn’t have to get on base to be productive as I have previously said. Moving runners over and sacrificing them in is important when a team cant hit with RISP, as the Yankees have had problems with.

        • Knoxvillain says:

          But they’re still scoring runs perfectly fine. They’re winning games right now. They shouldn’t mess the the batting order right now.


          It should stay like that unless something big changes.

          • The Real Greg says:

            This is not about the batting order. I’m fine with the batting order.

            I’m talking about people saying “Yanks made a bad move. He has a .288 OBP; How can he help them on offense?” They just need to think.

            By the way, if we had Ichiro in Oakland. I think we would have won one of those games. Either with him catching a ball that Ibanez or Jones couldn’t get to or moving runners up.

            • CS Yankee says:

              If Ibanez/Jones start in the postseason in LF (depending on the opposing pitcher), Ichiro could later enter as a;
              BOLHGY (Bat Only Late inning Hitter GuY) to move the runner over or get on base for the tieing run.
              BODRGY (Bunt Only Defense Replacement GuY)

  10. Two random thoughts…One just got the Samsung Galaxy SIII today. Fun ass phone. And Louie is a fucked up show. I love it, but it can be be pretty dark.

    • Paul VuvuZuvella says:

      What made you choose that over HTC Thunderbolt and Motorola RAZR ?

    • Erica says:

      LOUIE IS THE BEST CURRENT SHOW EVER. Ever ever ever ever ever. (Well, after 30 Rock, and Community.)

      • vin says:

        Louie rules. 30 Rock was entertaining at first, but it’s gettign worn out. And I’ve never been able to sit through an entire episode of Community (or Parks and Rec).

        Breaking Bad is at the top of the heap with Louie. Walking Dead should have joined them, but there’s just a few too many flaws.

        • Erica says:

          I agree on 30 Rock. I won’t be sad to see it go next season, but it’s bittersweet because it was really there for me through tuff tymez.

          Walking Dead is great – but that break they took midseason kind of made me lose interest (a la Lost). What flaws did you find in the show?

          • vin says:

            Mostly the character development. Rick’s son and wife have become insufferable. Loved what happened with Shane however. I keep wanting the dialogue to be a bit more interesting, but it usually falls flat. Also, they spent way too much time on the farm last season. It felt like they were stretching.

            Also, is every shot fired a perfect head-shot? Not saying it should be so realistic that it’s painful to watch, but a few more misses might help build suspense.

            • Erica says:

              Yeah, it seems once that original writing team departed, the show took a turn for the bland. I agree with everything here. The farm dragged out a bit. C’mon, they couldn’t stay there forever!

              The first season was so f’in good though.

        • Mike E says:

          Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Dexter, Louie, and Boardwalk Empire. All so good.

          • vin says:

            Haven’t gotten into Game of Thrones yet, but I hear good things. I’ve heard mixed reviews on Boardwalk Empire though. At least there’s not too many episodes to watch. I remember trying to turn some friends on to LOST after a few seasons, and the idea of sitting down and watching 40+ hour-long episodes scared them (although that’s what I did).

      • Archer. Archer is the best comedy on television.

  11. DERP says:

    lol Wei-Yin Chen walked Sam Fuld and then allowed a home run to Brooks Conrad

  12. Erica says:

    Anyone pick up the new Gaslight Anthem album today? I’m listening right now and it’s pretty awesome. Great live band. Great band in general.

  13. Kramerica Industries says:

    Jeff Keppinger hitting .458 against lefties.

    I mean, I know he’s always hit lefties well, but where the fuck do the Rays find these guys? Keppinger was flat out awful last year in San Francisco.

  14. The Real Greg says:

    Zack Greinke just hit a home run off Cliff Lee. 3-1 Brewers

  15. your mom says:

    Wandy Rodriguez to the Pirates???

  16. Cuso says:

    Sandy to the Buccos

  17. DERP says:

    Brett Cecil with a strong outing against Oakland.

  18. DERP says:

    Cespedes just had a three run single. I’m curious to see how that happened. Josh Reddick was the runner on first and I’m not sure he is faster than Yoenis.

  19. Pat D says:

    I don’t really want to go here, but I’m just curious what other people’s opinions are.

    In my local newspaper today there was a letter to the editor saying that if Colorado’s laws allowed concealed weapons handling, or if the movie theater was a permitted carrying zone, then the casualty count in Aurora would have been less than it was.

    It also said, “Don’t get me wrong, the shooter should be held responsible for his actions. But I think the Colorado Legislature and the property owner at the very least should be held responsible for making it impossible for anyone to defend themselves.”

    So the victims are at fault? Or the movie theater should be held accountable for not conceiving of someone bringing a guns into a theater for the intention of a mass killing?

    • Andruw's Smile says:

      Eh, people are pretty stupid. Relating this to baseball in someway, someone asked Carfado if Lester sucks this year because his cancer was back. People say stupid shit all the time, can’t get too riled up about it.

      • Pat D says:

        It seems, though, judging from some comments on the online version of the paper, that other people think the same way.

    • YanksFanInBeantown says:

      They aren’t blaming the victims, they’re saying that, if concealed carry was permitted, someone might have been able to take the shooter down before he killed so many people.

      Of course, that viewpoint is debatable, but I don’t think it’s that outlandish.

      (I agree with Ron Swanson uncomfortably often, so feel free to disregard anything I say)

      • Pat D says:

        I think given the situation, that he set off a smoke bomb and had an assault rifle and other weapons, that someone shooting back at him would have caused more chaos and potentially more casualties.

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