Aug
25

Update: Dodgers and Red Sox complete blockbuster trade

By

Saturday: It’s a done deal. The Sox are sending Beckett, Gonzalez, Crawford, and Punto to the Dodgers for James Loney and four prospects — RHP Allen Webster, RHP Rubby De La Rosa, IF Ivan DeJesus, and OF/1B Jerry Sands. Boston is paying just $12M of the $270M+ they’re dumping. Pretty crazy. I’ll have some more analysis on how this indirectly impacts the Yankees sometime this weekend.

Friday: Via Gordon Edes, the Dodgers and Red Sox are working on a blockbuster trade that would send Josh Beckett, Adrian Gonzalez, Carl Crawford, and Nick Punto to Los Angeles. Both Beckett and Gonzalez were claimed off trade waivers by the Dodgers earlier today while Crawford and Punto cleared earlier this month. For what it’s worth, Edes says the two sides are “closing in” on a deal.

First of all: holy crap. Second of all: why couldn’t it be Pedro Ciriaco instead of Punto? Third of all: Boston clearing that much money would be bad for the Yankees, at least in the sense that the Sawx could theoretically spend the savings elsewhere to improve the team. That’s much easier said than done, of course. Either way, this would be some kind of trade, potentially the largest of my lifetime considering the caliber of players and the size of the contracts involved.

Categories : Asides
  • Hall and Nokes

    I know this rumor is like 5 minutes old, but has anyone said who or what would go to Boston? Dwight Howard?

    • JobaWockeeZ

      Fuck the Orlando Magic. I hope they fucking suffer worse than the Detroit Lions. May they never win a game again. I’d rather root for Canadians.

      • Joe R

        Whys that?

    • Mick taylor

      The red sox will sign Josh Hamilton with some of that saved cash. By the way does anyone know cano’s hitting stats since he was in home runderby.

  • Soriano Is A Liar

    OH MY GOD THE RED SOX ARE HAVING A FIRE

    sale

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mAInAOK2fc

    • Sox are done

      Thank you for posting that video

    • vin

      Awesome.

    • FIPster Doofus

      You’re great for posting this.

    • G

      You win the internet.

    • Jeter’s Flip

      When did Soriano lie about something? Google search isn’t helping….

    • http://thecarsboneblog.tumblr.com Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle

      ALL OF THE INTERWEBS!!!!!!!!

  • Rey22

    Why the hell would the Dodgers take Crawford knowing he’s out for like a year? Holy crap. How much money would the Red Sox eat on this ridiculous trade?

    • The Real Greg

      They let Victorino go in FA and they have his replacement healed up and ready to go.

    • Laz

      The Beckett and AGon Contracts are pretty good. If beckett returns to form it is 15M per year pitcher for 2 years. And Agon is paid competitively with other 1B but he isn’t signed till he is 40.

  • kenthadley

    why cant we interest the Dodgers in Arod…..that would be a nice 25m or so of relief against the 189m self imposed cap….could do a lot with that space.

    • Hall and Nokes

      who’s to say they’re not interested in ARod?

      • radnom

        Hard to see them doing this deal AND taking on Arod.

        Although, should this fall through I will for this first time have hope the Yankees can unload that contract.

        • DJ

          I wouldn’t be surprised if the Yankees immediately put A-rod on waivers. It’s remote, but LA seems really desperate. They might feel that it will put more fans in the seats. Just imagine if we were freed of that contract. The possibilities!

  • vin

    I’m going to have to let this sink in for awhile…

    And I’m really curious to hear how much money the Sox will have to eat.

  • Andy Pettitte’s Fibula

    Can’t believe the Dodgers could take on that much salary with Kemp, Hanley and Ethier already signed to huge deals.

  • Chad Gaudin the Friendly Ghost

    LOL @ the Red Sox.

  • jjyank

    WTF? Please don’t let them out of the Crawford contract.

    • Andy Pettitte’s Fibula

      Exactly. They must be getting him for 50 cents on the dollar or else they’d be just nuts to take on that contract.

  • Reggie C.

    Dodgers have got to be eating some portion of Crawford’s contract. Half perhaps? Clearly there’s no swap of bad contracts that could place as the Dodgers seem to have avoided the albatross. Crawford is going to miss significant time next season. I just don’t see how Dodgers mgmt can be interested in adding Crawford unless the RS are alleviating half of the monies owed.

    • Reggie C.

      Ugh, I meant Red Sox , not Dodgers in my first sentence. I’m so stunned that these talks are happening I can’t even type straight.

  • Countryclub

    If the sox aren’t eating a good chunk of money, they should be getting back zero players of value from LA.

    • The Real Greg

      They’ll probably be getting back James Loney

  • Get Phelps Up

    The Dodgers just can’t take on that Crawford contract unless the Red Sox are paying just about all of the money owed to Agon and Beckett.

  • Reggie C.

    Clearly Cherington is clearing budget space to sign both Greinke and Hamilton this off season.

    The RS are about to go HAM this off season if alleviated from paying Gonzalez, Beckett, and some of Crawford’s owed monies, respectively.

    • Andy Pettitte’s Fibula

      That would be a foolish way to spend the newly saved money. Bringing a half crazy pitcher who’s been getting bombed in the AL to Boston and an always injured outfielder on the wrong side of 30 with substance abuse issues.

      • FIPster Doofus

        Half crazy? Ugh.

        • Andy Pettitte’s Fibula

          If Cashman thinks Grienke would be a bad fit in NY, I couldn’t imagine him in Boston where the scrutiny on players in 10X worse.

          • FIPster Doofus

            Fine, but calling the dude crazy is a bit much.

            • RocketMan86

              why? Because it doesn’t fit into the pro Grienke narrative on this blog?

              Not trying to judge, but no one has any problem constantly judging Josh Hamilton as a sure fire proven disaster waiting too happen and then mocking anyone daring to suggest otherwise.

              Yet, those same people have no second thoughts in signing Grienke to long term deal despite severe metal issues that could pop up at anytime, especially in this media environment.

              Thus the RAB Law:

              Hamilton & his personal Problems= Stay Away!!
              Grienke & his personal Problems= Absolutely Sign him ;)

              Here’s an idea. Be consistent on your biases. If Hamilton can’t mentally handle N.Y. then why the hell can Grienke do it any better?

              • Bo Knows

                No one has said not to sign Hamilton because of his personal issues, they don’t want to sign him because he’s practically guaranteed to end to end up on the disabled list at least once during the course of the season.

                Also Greinke is not crazy, and your honestly being a dick for saying that.

                • deadrody

                  Whatever. Stuff the PC nonsense already.

    • http://riveravenueblues.com dan scabet

      greinke would be seeing a shrink by may.

  • Rich in NJ

    This means that Tex might be tradeable too, which could be an offseason option to give them more payroll flexibility.

    That said, the Dodgers are nuts.

    • Laz

      And who takes his slot? The market is pretty bare in that department this winter. Laroche is the best option. It’s not my money so I think it is smarter to keep teix.

    • Dean Winters

      Tex wouldn’t agree to a move anyway that’s why he got the no trade clause in there

  • DM

    Strange that there’s no Dodger player specifics in the rumor.

  • don

    wow the dodgers just bent over and took every bad contract on the red sox. Who is running that team it sure is not Caleti, this is not a baseball move.

    • radnom

      Lackey.

      :)

    • Laz

      Agon contract isn’t bad. And Beckett’s is a gamble. CC is certainly overpaid but I still would expect him to return to form next year.

  • Andy Pettitte’s Fibula

    There really isn’t much in quality free agents available over the next 2 years either, especially starting pitching wise other than Grienke and Josh Johnson and I’d pass on both before committing huge money to either guy.

    • Get Phelps Up

      I’d imagine they’re wanting to trade for someone on a bad contract and be able to eat all the money. Cliff Lee maybe? CJ Wilson? Of course, I also wouldn’t be surprised one bit if they went and signed Gerinke and Hamilton this offseason.

      • Laz

        They won’t have any salary room if this trade goes through. Phillies would have been smart to dump C Lee on the dodgers, but they still think they can compete.

  • Jeremy

    I say the Sox will pay all of Lackey’s contract, take him too LA!

  • Jag

    Wow, I’m surprised they haven’t managed to add Lackey in there as well.

    I just don’t see this going down without more info… who would be first base for the Red Sox? Do they have anyone aside from Ortiz?

    Gonzalez is expensive but I think he’s basically performing his contract for them… Crawford and Beckett are not.

    I guess it’s too early to speculate since so much could happen… or not happen.

    • Laz

      AGon’s contract is much better then alot of the rest. It is overy when he is 36. It’s better than Pujols/Votto/Teix/Fielder’s contracts.

  • The Real Greg

    Sadly ironic that Jerry Nelson, the voice of Count Von Count, passed away today.

    The Count would have loved couting all the dollars in this deal.

    • Pat D

      That news upset me to no end.

      I still have a very old half falling apart stuffed animal of The Count.

  • Mikeymikeee

    If this deal goes down, Swisher will be playing first base for the Red Sox. Hamilton will be in the outfield as well. Not sure about what starters they sign.

    • The Real Greg

      They might just keep Loney. He’s young.

      • FIPster Doofus

        And godawful. Swisher in a Sox uni would make me want to throw up.

        • Mandy Stankiewicz

          The facial hair he would grow would make me want to throw up.

  • Sweet Dick Willie

    Beckett has 10-5 rights and can veto a trade.

    Don’t most players get remunerated for waiving contractual rights?

    • Laz

      You wouldn’t waive your rights to get out of the circus in boston to go to LA and be in a playoff race. I would see if I had any bargaining power to get extra money, otherwise I’d just leave.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com GT Yankee

      Yes, you are right about Beckett and Crawford can block trades to 3 teams one of which is LA. You’d think given the circus like atmosphere that they’d want to get out as they’ve been the focal point of a lot of “the problem”, but you never know.

  • DM

    This might be a tad icky on the Sox side if the deal falls through.

  • Captain Crunch Sabthia

    Can we persuade LA to take A-Rods contract as well? Man the Red Sox did good in this deal. The only one that would bite them though is A-Gone. Who’s gonna play first? Ortiz?

    • FIPster Doofus

      I doubt Ortiz would even want to re-sign. That team would suck on paper, and he’s already annoyed with management as it is.

    • Dean Winters

      I think Loney is going to Boston.

      • Get Phelps Up

        He’s definitely not a long term piece there.

  • Pat D

    I’m not all that concerned about the Red Sox potentially freeing up all this money. Subtracting AGon hurts the team, no matter how you look at it. Jettisoning Crawford and Beckett probably helps, but the Red Sox haven’t exactly been great in free agency over the last several years. Other than Manny and Ortiz, who was a scrap heap pick up, what free agent that they signed has really excelled for them?

    • DM

      I’m not either. They can just as easily pick bad personality fits or poor performers again. I’d be glad to see A-Gon Be-Gone.

      • FIPster Doofus

        Ditto. A-Gon is an elite player.

        • DM

          Yep. The chances of replacing him with another player of that caliber is slim. I was afraid he was going to pick up where Ortiz left off and haunt us for years.

        • JobaWockeeZ

          Not anymore. It’s why he’s on the table. He’s losing power as if he got hit by Katrina.

          A 1B with declining power in his decline years for 100 million dollars is something to avoid.

          Teix has declined too but I’d much rather have his production and contract on my team.

        • Laz

          He won’t be easily replaced is what I’m happy about. Adam Laroche is the best fa this offseason. And a 38 White Sox forever is the best the next year, unless you think kendrys can play everyday.

          If this trade goes through they will probably rebuild for several years.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

            Their next 1B is currently playing RF for the Yankees.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com GT Yankee

              Might very well happen and Swish is en fuego right now. But if it were to happen in the long term, I can’t believe his relaxed style of play and goofy looks after errors and bad at bats would go over well in Beantown these days. The days of the “idiots” are gone.

              • DM

                It will come down to money — but I doubt Swisher would be attracted to joining that situation. And if this trade changes the status of Bobby V, I would think Swisher would find them even less attractive. Personally, I wouldn’t care either way — but I see better fits for a personality like his. Too expensive for SF? Hmmm…

      • Get Phelps Up

        Yep. That said though, I think it would be ridiculous if they could get another team to eat Crawford’s contract, especially when he just had freakin TJS.

    • JobaWockeeZ

      The Red Sox free up 250 million AND get prospects. It’s a bunch of bullshit if this trade passes.

  • JobaWockeeZ

    Cherington if he pulls it off is a disciple of Theo. Suck the dicks of other GM’s to do whatever they want. This will be absolutely ridiculous if Crawford is included.

  • Fin

    I am assuming this deal is based around the Dodgers getting A-gon and the only way they can get him is by taking on Crawford and Beckett. Crawford was playing better in his limited time and could certainly gain more value playing in LF in LA than Boston. Beckett could certainly be helped by playing in a bigger park in the NL against weaker hitting lineups. Not to mention, something seems to be wrong in Boston and just getting out of their could improve thier performances. Its a risk for the Dodgers but it could certainly pay huge dividends. In the end they will end up with A-gon, and Beckett/Crawford at what would seem to be a greatly reduced price.

    It doesnt worry me that Boston frees up money as the 2 best players in FA, Grienke and Hamilton, are at least as risky as Crawford and Beckett.

    • TomH

      People may be putting too much hope in the weaknesses of Greinke and Hamilton (especially in any old “moral” weaknesses in the latter).

      • Fin

        Take out the moral issues and Crazzy issues. Grienke is getting lit up and Hamilton is always hurt.

        • Laz

          Have said it for awhile. Nice to see Greinke doing well, but never would want him on my team. He is too unpredictable for me, one year he completely dominates, next year his era is 4.17.

          Era of 4.01 in career year may make him a bargain this winter.

          • Bo Knows

            Zack Greinke’s ERA may fluctuate wildly but his FIP, and every other peripheral stat has stayed consistently in the well above average range since 2007.

    • deadrody

      I agree with you 100% on every point. Its a lot of money for the Dodgers, but they could be making out like bandits on this deal.

  • TomH

    Sounds like it could be the kiss of death to Yankee austerity budgets if they’re faced with a Sox management that has unloaded a lot of salary and picked up good (?are they?) prospects.

    Still, I’ll believe this deal when I see it.

    • AndrewYF

      Why? The Sox are essentially punting next season. And even if they pick up Greinke/Hamilton, they’ll have to overpay them just as much as they overpaid Crawford. And Greinke will command even more length and time than Beckett. Fine by me.

      You can have a lot of cash, but the FA market has to cooperate. And with all the no-doubt players signing long-term deals, this is NOT the time to be relying on free agency to build the core of your team around. Especially because you’ll end up overpaying them. And Boston will just have given up the one good long-term deal they had on their roster to do it. Sounds fine to me.

  • Widget

    Who cares if the red sox make this trade. It’s not like they’d do anything to improve with the extra cash. Their management has shown they have no clue what they are doing. And those owners could care less about the red sox, their soccer team means more to them than anything.

    Please make this trade. I look forward to their last place finish the next 5 years.

  • tipsie

    mixed feelings: would be great to see Gonzalez go, but anything which improves the current dysfunction is disappointing

  • AndrewYF

    Honestly, this kind of smells like the beginning of a sale of the team by Henry/Lucchino. They’re much more interested in running soccer teams now.

    • JohnnyC

      I think you’re on to something. Personally, I always thought Henry was going to sell the team at some point. I just thought it would’ve happened already. After all, he’s a hedge fund man. He’s going to try to sell high.

      • Smacknally

        Precisely what I’m hearing from my bean town peeps.

  • DJ

    I’m not worried at all. Yes they’ll free up a ton of cash, but the prosepcts being discussed that might go back to the Red Sox are nothing to write home about. Plus I can almost guarantee that Boston is chipping in some money here. There is no way LA is going to take on all $260 million. My guess is that Boston is at least paying the $20 million for Crawford in 2013 since he will miss most of that year. Even with the spare money, what are they going to spend it on? Greinke? good luck with that, he’s getting crushed out in Anaheim. Hamilton? huge risk.

  • DJ

    If I am the Yankees though, I’m putting A-rod on waivers immediately and crossing my fingers that LA is this desperate. I know it’s remote but that would be unbelievable. I have much more faith in what the Yankees would do with the spare change than what the Red Sox would do.

    • AndrewYF

      Pretty sure A-Rod has passed through waivers unclaimed every year. His contract is on the same level of bad as Crawford’s. Notice Crawford didn’t get claimed either.

      • DJ

        yea good point.

    • http://steveferrara@yahoo.com Steve (different one)

      ARod has a NTC (and 10-5 rights, so the NTC is redundant).

      Neither he or Teixeira are going anywhere

      • The Ghost of Joe Dugan

        You don’t have to get his permission to let him go after a waiver claim. Do you?

  • squeege

    Give them Teix and Arod and figure out the rest later.

  • don

    zach lee is in the deal and they only get some cash wtf is this.

    • BC203

      Source? I have not heard that at all and that’s a big jump from the prospects previously mentioned.

    • BC203

      Newest report is Allen Webster, not Lee.

      https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/239144354307002369

      Certainly nothing spectacular, but this should mean Boston is picking up some serious cash.

  • Russell

    I wish the Dodgers were interested in A-Rod and Tex!!

  • vicki

    has a team ever doubled its payroll in one season?

  • Formerly the Blogger known as OLDMANALEX

    just looking ahead. But that dodgers lineup is gonna look pretty effing deep come playoff time. The rotations no joke either…

  • Mick taylor

    Boston will sign Josh Hamilton next year with some of that money saved.

  • Brian S.

    The Sox have to be eating a ton of money. Nobody is that stupid.

    • Gonzo

      Not according to the latest report. The Dodgers are picking up “more than $260MM of the $271.5MM in combined salary that the Red Sox are sending…”

      WTF?!?!?!

  • Edmond

    Pressure on us, since swish a FA, so redux have money to spend. I can’t believe this deal is happening as written. I think from my POV, it’s a present since Beckett was a big part of the 2007 championship and AGone is a great player. From what I have read, I think dodgers are winners of this deal!

    • Ron

      They dump 260 mil and get 2 top prospects. dodgers got bent over prison style.

      • Mike R.

        On the bright side, who are they spend the $$$ on?

        Hamilton is a huge risk and would be a lateral move with A-Gon leaving in terms of cash and production. Grienke?

        They received some young talent, but not amazing talent.

        • Zack D

          The thing is, no reason to spend the money this offseason. They now have flexibility, which has value.

  • William

    Wow. Dodgers pick up 96 percent of the money and give away Webster and De la Rosa. Idiots.

  • http://fendersonandhampton.com Cuso

    This is a win for the Sox in terms of being able to clear that money, certainly.

    But getting rid of A-Gon with noone to replace him at 1B? There’s no free agent worthy for him to grab.

    Yes they’re clearing money, but to spend on whom, exactly?

    If big-time free agents are considering heading there this off-season, they’re going to look long and hard at what happened over the last 16 months.

    Does everyone really believe that Boston would be the best destination for a Josh Hamilton or a Zack Greinke? Maybe Zack, doubtful Josh. They’re still going to be counting on Lackey next year, you can forget Papi returning and who could they possibly trade for to approximate A-Gon’s production? WHAT could they trade to get it?

    they’ll be back. but not in 2013.

    • The Real Greg

      That’s the key. They’re going to have a lot of money. But the free agency class this year is not that good.

      • jjyank

        I am thanking my lucky stars that Hamels signed the extension with the Phillies, that’s for sure.

  • Christopher

    Sox have rolled over and died for the next five years, Dodgers have conjured up 70’s Steinbrenner’s Ghost and smoked some of that Left Coast whacky weed. Can’t recall ever seeing a trade like this.

  • The Real Greg

    Although Dodgers beat reporter Dylan Hernandez is saying that these reports are premature.

  • Moose

    The dodgers still have nice payroll flex in 14 and beyond once u see the numbers – I’m just wondering how good those prospects are – seems like another lucky Boston trade if they can shed all their luggage, have it almost all paid for, and still get la’s best chips?

  • jjyank

    Wow. When I saw the rumor, I honestly thought it would fall apart. Anyone know anything about the players the Sox are getting back? I’m pretty much in the dark when it comes to non-Yankee prospects.

  • JohnnyC

    The last Red Sox the Dodgers traded for got suspended for failing a PED test. Maybe the Sox know something.

  • tyrone sharpton

    this is potentially catastrophic for the yankees, because boston both dumped massive bust contracts while also giving themselves gobs of money to spend on future impact free agents….crap

    • JohnnyC

      Adrian Gonzalez (.321/.382/.513, 9.1 WAR)is a bust???

    • DM

      “potentially” but A-Gon and Crawford were potentially going to make the Red Sox better for long time. It didn’t work out that way. The Marlins spent a lot of money and got a lot of nice players to make a competitive team — but it hasn’t worked out. Money or not, it’s hard to build (or rebuild) a contender. Spraying with the money hose is no guarantee — like the Red Sox and Marlins found out despite acquiring a lot of talent.

      • Robinson Tilapia aka Melky’s Webmaster

        “Spraying with the money hose” needs to be the next promising meme we forget in three days.

        • DM

          I got that from Robert Rodriguez. He used it in the context of big budget movies versus his approach. You’re more creative and effective with a lesser budget in his view. He actually turns down bigger budgets b/c he doesn’t want to be tempted to solve or fix or compensate for flaws by just “spraying with the money hose”.

        • I am not the droids you’re looking for…

          Or my new screen name. Hmmmm….

    • Robinson Tilapia aka Melky’s Webmaster

      That assumes they’ll get it right. I’m in no way making that assumption.

  • Mike HC

    Wow, this trade is just out of control. Makes me feel even better about being a Yankees fan, not that I needed any added confidence. Sorry Sox fans.

  • Captain Crunch Sabthia

    Unless the Red Sox get many great players this off-season, we don’t have to really worry about them in any playoff race for another few years. And if I were the Orioles I would try to make a big splash this off-season for a good player, someone like Grienke. And if I were them I would change there hats back to there original version.

  • Bavarian Yankee

    sick. I wonder why a team like the O’s or Jays didn’t claim Gonzo, the Sawx would’ve never given him up for nothing.

    • Steve

      They probably assumed nobody else could work out a trade for him either and didn’t want to be on the hook just in case. Also, isn’t there some kind of gentleman’s agreement about not claiming players from your own division? I know the Yankees did it with Cris Carter but that was directly to stop a trade. This would have been (at the time) claiming him for no reason. Same as the Sox would be claiming Cano.

      • barfield637

        absolutely not – the yanks not putting in a claim on AGon to prevent such a trade is inexcusable

        the red sox have pretty much been let out of every potential albatross w/the exception of Lackey and have 130 million+ to play with starting next year and a top 5 farm (not to mention at top 12 first round pick) – this is exactly the type of thing the yankees should have gamed to prevent

  • jjyank

    Taking a look at the players the Sox are getting…

    Webster looks solid. 22 year old RHP, 3.55 ERA and 3.21 FIP in AA. His BB/9 isn’t great at 4.22, but he misses bats with an 8.65 K/9. To be fair though, he is repeating the level, and wasn’t so good in 2011. 7.22 K/9, 3.56 BB/9, 5.04 ERA and 4.05 ERA.

    Rubby De La Rosa (23 year old RHP) hasn’t pitched much this year, so I’m guessing he’s been injured. He was pretty good in 2011 though, with a 2.93 ERA, 2.50 FIP, 11.70 K/9, 4.28 BB/9 in 40 IP in AA. In 60.2 IP in in the majors that same year, he had a 3.71 ERA and 3.87 FIP with 8.90 K/9 and 4.60 BB/9.

    Ivan DeJesus is apparently also the name of a retired player who was born in 1953, so I don’t know anything about him. I’m too lazy and hungover to dig any deeper.

    Jerry Sands (righty OF) seems decent. Turns 25 next month. Was having a good year in AAA (134 wRC+). He is repeating the level, but had a 119 wRC+ there last year. No idea on his defense, though.

    So in my very amateur opinion, concluded from my very amateur evaluation, I don’t see how this trade makes sense for the Dodgers. If Boston was eating most, or even half of the salaries, this might make more sense to me. But with the Dodgers eating almost all of it, and giving up seemingly potentially valuable players, I really don’t get it.

    • Steve

      De Jesus is a SS. Sands, I thought, was a 1b? There has been talks about him taking over 1B next year. Either way, I’m told via the twitters that you can’t take any of those stats seriously, as the PCL is a hitters paradise. Hitters get a major boost and pitchers take a big hit.

      • jjyank

        Fangraphs lists him as an OF, for what it’s worth. If there has been talks about 1B, that is probably all we need to know about his defense.

        I admit that I have no context for any of these stats, just found it interesting that each of these guys seems like they could have some value. And the Red Sox got them without eating much money at all.

        • Steve

          Oh yeah, I agree. I wasn’t trying to correct you, just adding what I had heard. Webster and De La Rosa appear to be the crown jewels here with Sands apparently adding some thump. This appears to be a major win for the Sox, though they lost a lot here. Going back to 2011, the trade is basically Beckett, Casey Kelly, Reymond Fuentes, Anthony Rizzo and a 2011 first rounder for De La Rosa, Webster, Sands, De Jesus and salary relief. Not as much of a win when you consider what they gave up in the first place.

          • jjyank

            That’s true, I guess you gotta factor in what they gave up for Gonzalez too. I guess the trade is a win for the Yankees in the short term, in that the Sox will be considerably less dangerous for a little while. The long term outlook is entirely up in the air though. As a baseball fan, I’m curious what direction the Sox FO goes from here.

            Also, I wonder what Ortiz makes about all this. It could be the straw that broke the camel’s back, meaning that he leaves Boston after the season too.

            • hogsmog

              I mean, what do you want if you’re Ortiz? You’ve got a couple championships under your belt, not really chasing any records, a stretch case for HOF that a few more years probably won’t make or break. His big-money days are probably over.

              He put up a good season this year. If I were him, I’d say to the FO, “Look, there’s nobody out there this offseason. Give me a competitive one-year deal because the fans want to see me and I have all these veteran presents to hand out.” If they don’t want to play, he can tell them to go screw. There are plenty of teams that will give a contract to a lefty who can slug 500.

    • Robinson Tilapia aka Melky’s Webmaster

      So half these guys maybe become something.

      Maybe the Sox get lucky and turn this around quickly, and I do think being one of the richer teams, in general, always works in their favor. You don’t strip the team, sign a cup,e of guys, and instantly contend.

      Also, wow, two guys signing long-term deals with them get shipped to the opposite coast not even halfway through their deals? Aren’t free agents to be watching that? Would you want to commit to Boston?

      Maybe they make lemonade here, but I say the road is steep.

      • Steve

        Doesn’t apply in Gonzalez’s case, but FA to be that don’t want to get traded should probably not put up a negative WAR season to start. I don’t think the Sox would have been the only team to trade Crawford after the beginning to his tenure. Nor would they have tried if he wasn’t one of the worst players in baseball last year, in my opinion

        • Robinson Tilapia aka Melky’s Webmaster

          Wasn’t that extension signed on the Sox clock, though?

          • Steve

            Yeah he signed it early. I agree he kind of got the shaft, but it’s also a unique circumstance. They rid themselves of two almost unmovable contracts and got quality in return. It’s not something every top FA would be worried about, I wouldn’t think.

          • Steve

            Also, When I said “Doesn’t apply” I meant what I was about to say about Crawford, not what you said about FA. I wrote it in the most confusing way possible, sorry about that

      • jjyank

        Good point about free agents to be. If I had a family that I was going to move to a new city for a job, I sure would like some guarantee that we would be staying there in contract talks. Coupled with the all negative reports about players, ownership, Bobby V, etc….might be hard to lure FAs there. Though Bobby V is almost assuredly gone after the season.

        • John Bonanno

          Crawford had a guarantee. He had a no trade clause to the Dodgers which he quickly and happily waived.

    • Mike HC

      With the compensation system in MLB, if you lose/sign a player like Beckett, Gonzalez and Crawford, I’m pretty sure the losing team still gains a high pick or even two, and the team signing them has to give up a pick. So, while I have no idea of the value of these prospects vs. 1st round draft picks, it would make sense to give up compensation equal to around 3-5 first round picks, considering this amounts to taking on huge, free agent style contracts. Just throwing it out there.

    • JohnnyC

      Webster’s ceiling is a mid-rotation starter…in the NL.

      Rubby De La Rosa had TJS last August. He’s an injury prone full effort guy who’s probably a late inning reliever in the future.

      Jerry Sands played in a home park with a +30% run factor.
      .
      Ivan De Jesus Jr. is a 25 year old projected to be a fine untility infielder.

      Except for the salary relief, this deal resembles the nutty deals the Red Sox victimized other teams with (e.g. Schilling for a bag of shells)

      • deadrody

        That is my view as well. Webster is repeating AA and from what I could tell is not improving on his previous try at the level.

        So the Sox get a lot of salary relief – for the same front office bozos that signed Lackey, Crawford, and Gonzalez in the first place. Big deal.

  • Rich in NJ

    The Yankees need a lower case version of this type of deal before 2014.

    • jjyank

      Problem is, that probably means the Yankees won’t make the playoffs that year. The Sox have seemed to concede that, and they made this deal 13.5 games out of first place and 6 games under .500. I sure hope the Yankees aren’t in that position any time soon.

      • Rich in NJ

        I am always fine with taking a step back to be in a position to take a larger step foward for years to come.

        • jjyank

          That’s not a certainty though. I’d rather the Yankees figure out how to content in spite of the large contracts than forfeit a season. Getting rid of the contracts is only the first step, remember. The team still has to take gambles on other players to replace them.

          • Rich in NJ

            But nothing is certain, just as in 2008. But that year enabled them to have the flexibility to massively reload in 2009.

            When you have close to $75m tied up in 3 player, only one of whom (CC) may still be able to play up to that contract, and 4 to 5 more pretty big to huge contracts necessary to keep Cano, Jeter, Granderson, Hughes, and Swisher through 2014, you are in an almost impossible position unless you get young, cheap assets for some of those players, or let some of them go and replace them with homegrown, high level talent. The latter option doesn’t seem likely for 2014, so risk taking will be an integral part of any road they take.

            • jjyank

              2009 had a much better FA class than 2013 will, though. It will be difficult, but who knows when the next Nick Swisher-like trade will happen? Who knows which prospects step up and contribute? All I’m saying is that I would never want the Yankees to punt a season in the hopes that maybe they can improve the team later.

              You said it yourself, nothing is certain. Punting a season to shed a couple bad contracts does not mean that you will be able to drastically improve the team later. And shedding that payroll does what, exactly? Frees up room to sign another high priced free agent that may become an albatross itself a couple years down the line that we bitch about?

              • Rich in NJ

                If no trades are made and the Yankees stick to the $189m threshold for several years, they aren’t certain to make the playoffs. They may not have made the playoffs this season but for Soriano, and that type of signing will almost certainly become impossible now.

                Of course nothing is certain, but to be able to react to in uncertainties, which often come without notice, a team needs both roster and payroll flexibility.

                Given the current makeup of their team and the lack of high end ML ready prospects, they have neither.

                I am not looking for high price free agents. I want the opposite. Forbearing on signing some of their own impending free agents and instead using them to acquire talented, cost-controlled young assets.

                • Robinson Tilapia aka Melky’s Webmaster

                  Gregacy. No one is ever certain to make the playoffs.

                • jjyank

                  I think we both want the same kind of team. Obviously the large contracts we have now make things difficult, and it still kinda irks me that the new CBA that gives such large incentives for being under the luxury tax threshold after the Yankees had committed to those contracts.

                  All I’m saying is that I don’t want to see the Yankees give up on a season in the hopes of rebuilding. I’m all for making trades to improve and hoping a couple prospects can contribute. If the Yankees could dump A-Rod and another large contract, maybe Tex or something, and spread the money around to improve the team drastically, sure, I’d be cool with that. But they would be making the team worse, probably conceding a lost season, and doing so without any sort of guarantee that they will bounce back the following year.

                  The situation sucks, thanks in part by the timing of the new CBA. There’s really no slam dunk, infallible path for the Yankees to take. I guess I view riding out the current contracts, making a couple of trades in the mold of the Swisher trade (marginal prospects, buying low type), and banking on a few prospects helping out as the lesser of the evils. I certainly see and respect your path though, they both have merit.

                  • Rich in NJ

                    Look at what Tampa has been able to do by spending $60-$75m a season. That should demonstrate that if they Yankees make the right developmental decisions, they should be able to kick butt spending $140-$150m, and still have a contingency fund. But to be able to put themselves in that position, the have to stop being so top heavy payroll wise. They might require a short period of sacrifice. I think it’s worth it.

                    • jjyank

                      Fair enough. I would love for the Yankees to become “the Rays, but with money”, but that’s obviously much more difficult than it sounds. If becoming that required a short period of sacrifice, sure, I’m down with that. But the difficulty in making that a reality makes that sacrifice quite a gamble. I personally wouldn’t take that gamble, but I see the allure.

        • Robinson Tilapia aka Melky’s Webmaster

          So am I. I just don’t think what you’re suggesting is the right approach for EITHER team.

  • mt

    Mike,

    When you do post on impact on Yanks (indirect), could you address a couple of things

    1) given how much money Red Sox now have, I do not see Red Sox being outbid by Yanks (I know they also lose Matsuzaka at end of this season); Red Sox will be able to get Swisher if they want him. Visions of 4/52 contract are out the window. They can buy Swisher; keep Ellsbury one more year, and then use Nava/Khalish/Sweeney (one of seemingly limitless pool of outfielders) for left. I think Yanks may be looking at Torii Hunter or Cody Ross – definite downgrades. I can’t see Yanks getting into a top of the line contract with Swisher with Cano and to a lesser extent Granderson still unsigned. I am usually down on Swisher’s performance under pressure but he and Jeter are the only ones really thriving right now as others struggle.

    2) Maybe unrealsistic hopes that Dodgers might be a destination for later years of Arod contract on a salary dump now are absolutely dead – don’t they still have to sign Kershaw, too?

    3) With this trade, Red Sox payroll flexibility is so much higher than ours for the foreseeable future while, even though our player certainty for 2013 is greater than Red Sox, by 2014 it is not that much better than Red Sox(we have no catcher, no RF, no 2b, no CF, no closer, no#2 (Kuroda), no#3 (Pettite), no number 4 (Hughes)signed for 2014 with injured 3 (Nova,Pineda, Banelos) and Phelps possibly stepping up to take those spots) . Also I believe Lackey now plays for free or the minimum salary for an additional year since he was on DL for so long, lowering his AAV.

    • Mike HC

      The Red Sox just completely dismantled their team. It has a positive effect on the Yanks in my book. One less serious contender in the AL for the next 3 years or so, also coinciding with Jeter and ARod’s last viable years (or maybe they both play till 50, who knows, ha).

      • Bavarian Yankee

        I wouldn’t say they’re less serious contenders. What did they lose? A borderline useless pitcher and clubhouse cancer in Beckett and a guy that barely played and when he played he was average at best (Crawford). Losing Gonzo certainly hurts but they now have money to improve their team in several areas. I promise you that they’ll have a better team next season.

        • Mike HC

          I don’t see it. Lost Youk, Crawford, AGon and Beckett. 3 of those guys were useless this year anyway, so I think under .500 or maybe around .500 is where they will stay for a little while. Just my guess, time will tell.

          • JohnnyC

            It’s obvious Lucchino is in charge now. Don’t expect Sox to spend their $250 million largesse anytime soon. Expect them to sell “young Sox guns” to their fanbase for next several years. Time to reap profits. Remember, this is 3 years in a row they’ve missed the playoffs. They’re closer to their old futility than their brief championship era.

            • Mike HC

              Seems like you could be right. This is what I am kind of assuming is happening as well.

    • mt

      Boiling it down, Yanks – if $189 million is really serious – no longer can be deemed to be able to outspend to get a player even if they really want him. Boston, who is now way under $189, now steps into those shoes.

      I wonder if Dodgers looked at former Marlin brethren of Beckett – A.J Burnett – and hope for similar things in transition back to NL. What if Crawford and Beckett are huge injury busts? They really must be (over)valuing having a Mexican-American superstar in L.A. – not sure Gonzalez’ Gonzomania will equal Fernandomania.

      • Mike HC

        We weren’t outspending teams to get any player we want anyway. If the 189 million plan is accurate, they need to make cuts, not outspend anyway. Maybe it is a positive for the Sox in that they have all this money and they won’t have to worry about the Yanks outspending them anyway.

        • Mike HC

          anyway, ha

  • Reggie C.

    RS would be wise to punt the next couple seasons. Felix Hernandes hits the market eventually and the Red Sox will be well primed to make the highest bid. They won’t be contending for playoffs next season but watch out after that.

    • Dean Winters

      I forgot what forum it was on but a poster stated the Ms have every intent on extending him after this season. Felix loves the Mariners despite not being a winning team

  • Beantown Bombers Fan

    I’m reminded of this nugget from the past as we see the greatest team EVAH assembled now picked apart:

    http://www.nesn.com/2011/01/20.....story.html

    • jjyank

      Always good for a chuckle.

      • I am not the droids you’re looking for…

        Yup. Still love this.

    • http://thecarsboneblog.tumblr.com Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle

      The article that got me banned from OTM. Good times.

  • Robinson Tilapia aka Melky’s Webmaster

    This should be renamed “Plouffy’s favorite thread.”

    • http://thecarsboneblog.tumblr.com Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle

      I hate you R-Tils.

  • Dicka24

    I think this deal is a coup of sorts for the Redsox. I’m from Boston, so I have a front row seat to the disfunction on that team. It’s an absolute mess (which I enjoy of course). Only 4 players from the team went to Johnny Peskys funeral. I think that was the last straw for management. Fans and the media have really let this team have it. From the manager, to the players, to ownership, no one has been spared from venomous ridicule. I honestly haven’t seen disgust like this with the sox in a long, long time up here. Being a Yankees fan, I’m mixed on the trade. I was hoping they’d be stuck with the awful Beckett and Crawford deals, as well as a not as good as advertised Adrian Gonzalez.

    As for the trade, what really bothers me, is the fact that the Ddogers are only getting $12 million from the Sox. Serously Dodgers? I’d have assumed the money would have been substantially more, especially since there are prospects heading back to the Sox. Granted, it doesn’t look like the prospects are elite level, but they’re not Diego Moreno either (that’s one of the guys we got for Burnett). Crawford is massively overpaid, and just had TJ. Beckett is owed well over $30 million, and his stuff has declined to end of the rotation quality. He’s lost velocity, and his K rate is a career low 6.6 per 9. Those two alone should require a significant cash payment from the Sox. Dumping those contracts is a real coup imo. With deep pockets, and significant financial flexibility moving forward, the Sox are in a good position to rebuild quickly. They still have a decent core to build with too. Lester, Pedroia, Ellsbury (if he resigns), Middlebrooks, Dubront, Bucholz, Bailey, etc. are all good to solid players. Of coure they have to spend their money wisely, but Theo is gone. This is why I despise the Arod deal so much, and hope the Yankees don’t get stupid when resigning Cano. All these $20+ million deals become a ball and chain near their end.

  • Holy Ghost

    Maybe the Yanks can convince the Marlins to take the rest o ARod’s contract?

    • JohnnyC

      Despite his Miami roots, don’t think his image is conducive to solving Marlins’ attendance problems. He wouldn’t be seen as a returning hometime hero. And Yankees would need to pay at least half of his contract.

  • Ethan

    What the hell are the dodgers thinking. This is a terrible move for them. Sure, it will almost guarantee them the NL West this year but will impede them from making FA moves in the coming offseason and beyond.

    • Gonzo

      The owners need to make them contenders super fast to extract the most value from their next TV deal.

      • http://thecarsboneblog.tumblr.com Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle

        Like I said last night, that would make sense if they were just getting Adrian. However, Crawford isn’t going to be picking up a bat till probably May-ish next season, and Beckett has been having a terrible year. Beckett’s K% is way down, (22.3% Career, 17.2 this season) HR/9 is up, WHIP is the second highest of his career (2010 career high) second highest LD% of his career (2005 career high), and his tERA, SIERA, and xFIP are all well above their career norms. Finally his Velocity is at a career low, and has been trending down every year since 2007. All of this tells me there is little chance of him bouncing back.

        • The Real Greg

          In the NL West.. in a pitcher’s ballpark…

          Are you sure?

          • Gonzo

            Look at AJ Burnett. Not saying he’s a stud now, but he is having his best season since 2009 and he’s 35.

            • http://thecarsboneblog.tumblr.com Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle

              Burnett was a huge headcase when it came to pitching on a big stage. Beckett on the other hand has always been the type of guy to thrive under the spot light. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying he definitely won’t be a good pitcher for LA, I’m just saying the odds are much better that he continues to struggle than him turning it around.

              • Gonzo

                Too many narratives.

                • http://thecarsboneblog.tumblr.com Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle

                  There are two narratives, bot have which have been proven.

                  Burnett terrible in big market: See his career in Toronto vs NY

                  Beckett great in big spot: See his career post season numbers. 3.07ERA .940WHIP 9.5K/9 almost 5/1 K/BB.

                  • Gonzo

                    So the Dodgers were smart to improve their playoff chances by acquiring Beckett?

                    Greinke can’t handle large markets either right?

                    • http://thecarsboneblog.tumblr.com Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle

                      I never said that, before being in LA (of Anahiem) Grienke has never exactly pitched in a large market. Who knows how he’ll react. I don’t understand why you feel the need to defend Beckett like this. I’m just saying what the numbers are telling me: The odds are that Beckett is over the hill, and will never be as good as he once was. He’s probably still a decent back end guy for an NL club, but for LA to take on his full salary for the next 2 years is asinine and makes little sense.

                    • Gonzo

                      I think I’ve mentioned more than once why it makes sense financially.

                  • http://thecarsboneblog.tumblr.com Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle

                    Let me be a little clearer, his career in Toronto vs. his career in NY.

          • http://thecarsboneblog.tumblr.com Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle

            Greg: going to the NL will definitely help Beckett, I won’t deny that. It’s said that you can add/subtract a half of a run off of a pitchers ERA over the course of a season when they change leads. (Add for AL and subtract for NL obviously.) Also factor in that he’s going to a pitcher’s park, and a division full of them, so let’s shave another quarter of a run off of his ERA. Beckett’s ERA is at 5.23 this season, so he’d pitch to a 4.47 ERA over the last month of the season…not great.

        • Gonzo

          It’s August 25. What could the Dodgers have done before the 31st to improve their chances this much in the playoff run?

          Beckett is still a better pitcher than Blanton. And who knows what the Dodgers scouting believes about whether he’ll come back next year strong. He’s had back issues this year, and you can’t scout a box score. He’s also working in a horrible environment by all accounts. How many times has a player been left for dead after a bad year only to bounce back.

          Crawford may come back in May or sooner, but he’s still an upgrade over whatever they had planned for Victorino’s departed spot.

          • Gonzo

            Also, if Beckett is only a 4/5 pitcher from here on out, he’s only signed for 2 more years after this year. That’s almost perfect for their purposes.

          • John Bonanno

            Beckett was a prime feature of that “horrible environment.”

  • Rooting for U.S. Steel

    JJYank:

    It’s interesting that you see the RS move as a sign that Valentine is gone after the season. I’ve got no insight into the inner workings, but my gut says this buys Valentine time.

    The Sox liked Bobby V. enough to hire him, but he didn’t get a lot of coattail players. Yeah, most managers don’t — but most managers aren’t as abrasive as Bobby V., who probably benefits more from having “his guys” in the clubhouse than most.

    So I’m seeing this as a chance for the Sox to give Bobby some more players who don’t have the baggage of having played for a previous, popular manager. It’s a chance for them to not pay his salary, and another manager’s salary on top of it, while saying to him (and the rest of the world) “We’ve given you YOUR team now, so it’s on your head.”

    No, I’m not saying this is a “save a salary” move… but it will help the RS management save a bit of face.

    There’s a “Valentine Massacre” reference waiting to be made out of this, methinks…

    So… you say Valentine is gone. I’m guessing he’ll start the 2013 season with the team. Happy to wager a round at the Brickskeller the next time I’m in DC — or a comparable offering here in NYC.

    • Rooting for U.S. Steel

      WTF?! The Brickskeller is closed?? That was the only place I’ve ever seen a live-and-in-person can of 007 beer!

      Dammit, I’ve been away too long.

      Offer stands. Venue TBD.

      • jjyank

        Haha I’ll take that bet, if only because I wouldn’t mind either getting a free round or paying for one for a fellow RABer. We can change the venue to Capitol City Brewery, that’s become my go-to spot.

        • Rooting for U.S. Steel

          All right, consider it a bet! If Valentine isn’t listed as the opening-day manager for the 2013 Red Sox, your first round at Capitol City Brewery is on me. (Note: If he is the manager, but is unavailable to serve for opening day, it still counts on my side.)

          Electronic handshake?

          • jjyank

            *shakes hand*

            Deal.

    • fin

      I agree with you. I think this move almost guarantees Bobby V. is back next year. They cleaned out management last year, and cleaned out players this year. Bobby V. is their man, if they didnt make this trade they probably would have had to fire him. Someone would have needed to take the blame for this season. Now the players are taking the blame. On that note, it should be fun to watch the Sox smear A-gon now.

      • I am not the droids you’re looking for…

        Great point about the smear campaigns set to begin in 5…4..3……

    • jjyank

      That’s a good point. I didn’t think that this move in particular was a signal that Valentine would be gone, I thought the season as a whole was a pretty good indication. I don’t think that this move necessarily changes that, though. If I were a Red Sox fan, I sure would hope the team isn’t making trades just to make the manager happy.

    • John Bonanno

      Firing Valentine will purely be a baseball decision now. Eating his contract next year will be nothing with the money saved on this momentous salary dump.

  • Athenian

    It would be interesting to see if the Yankees would consider this kind of fire sale, but in their case more for the future rather than catering to a new manager, if that is what it is going on.

    I fear that moves like this from other teams has a tendency to make the Yankees not feel obligated to overpay for some of the existing talent, especially as they approach declining years. Rather invest in younger talent that will have its ups and downs but let that talent progress (as long as they are not pitchers).

    But, while this does free up money in Boston, it is still Boston and there are still trouble makers on the team and ineffective club house guys (Lackey). It also is a bold assumption – based on the lack of real talent they are getting back – that they will be able to replace the talent and production (use career not just Boston) on the FA market. It seems bold but it really could come down to replacing bad with mediocre. This is will be interesting how it plays out.

    • fin

      Why would the Yankees consider a move like this? They are 21 games over .500 with a lead in the AL east. Not 6 games under .500 13 games out of first place and about to miss the playoffs for the third year in a row.

      There is also no team friendly contract the Yankees have like A-Gons that could be bundled to help dump a bad contract. No ones taking on A-Rods contract to get to David Robertson.

  • mikeymike

    Watch out …this deal could be shot down as not being in the best interests of baseball…

  • Pasta Stumbling Sojo

    I’m trying very hard to see how this isn’t horrible news, and how this isn’t the most amazing thing for the Red Sox. They’re getting rid of horrible, horrible contracts. They were screwed for next year, and they were screwed for the end of Adrian’s contract (2018!!). Now they’re free to sign or trade for any big money player over the next few years, and they can replace those horrible contracts with reasonable ones.

    Please, someone help me see how this isn’t amazing for the Red Sox. The only things I can think of are that there aren’t enough available superstars out there for them to build a great team with, that Hamilton and Greinke are big question marks, and that Crawford and Adrian might end up performing at star levels for the next few years.

    And worst of all, this takes all the fun out of the Red Sox sucking for the rest of this season. It won’t be nearly as fun to laugh at every loss of theirs from now to October.

    • http://thecarsboneblog.tumblr.com Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle

      Negatives for the Red Sox: Their farm system is just as barren as it was before the trade (WMB, Lavarnway, and not much else). The upcoming free agent class took a huge hit with Hammels signing an extenstion and Melky being busted for PEDS. Papi probably leaves unless the team drastically improves through Free Agency, which like I said, not as easy as it would be in other years. Leaving the only true “stars” signed for next year are Pedrioa and Lester, both of whom have shown a distaste for Bobby V.

      Don’t get me wrong, this is definitely a net positive for Boston, but unless they play their cards right this can blow up in their face just as quickly as the All-Star team they put together for the 2011 season.

      • Gonzo

        I’m not saying the Red Sox have a top 5 farm system but I’d bet that they have a top 15 across the board. Probably a top 10 system.

        Xander Bogaerts, Matt Barnes, Jackie Bradley Jr. have a shot at all being in the top 50 players rankings this year. I wouldn’t call that barren.

        • http://thecarsboneblog.tumblr.com Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle

          They were ranked 11 before the season, and when I say barren, I mean barren of players that can be immediate help this/next/following season. Having a bunch of prospects who might be good is great, but it doesn’t help a team contend right now.

          • Gonzo

            Ok, so we have different definitions of a barren farm system. Your definition is only for the upper minors and mine is for the entire minors.

            • http://thecarsboneblog.tumblr.com Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle

              Yeah, I should’ve been clearer: their farm system is barren in the higher levels. Overall, a decent amount of talent, but odds of that talent bearing any fruit is low, and even if it does that’s years away. That’s why I find it hard to get really psyched about our High-A ball team.

    • Gonzo

      I really like this for the Sox too. There are less and less superstars are hitting the FA market though. And when they do hit the market, I don’t think they sign reasonable deals.

      Just be happy the Sox won’t be making the playoffs this year and their chances for next year took a big hit. After that, who knows what happens.

    • http://thecarsboneblog.tumblr.com Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle

      Also, how can you say it won’t be nearly as fun to laugh at the losses? Their biggest bat was taken out of the line up. They’re going to continue being terrible and probably worse than they were. I’m going to enjoy the rest of their season.

      • Pasta Stumbling Sojo

        Fair enough. I will still laugh at all their losses, and will be glad to see how many crappy AL teams they can finish below.

        But it’s waaaaay better to see them lose with a team that includes overpaid, underperforming stars that the team will be saddled with for years to come.

        • http://thecarsboneblog.tumblr.com Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle

          That is true. That was fun…though I’ve been saying I don’t THINK Beckett or Crawford are going to bounce back, I sincerely HOPE they do. I hope for the remainder of all of their contracts Beckett, Crawford, and Gonzalez help the Dodgers become a force in the NL while the players that the Red Sox sign to replace them all flounder terrifically.

          • Pasta Stumbling Sojo

            The only thing is that I live near SF and work 5 blocks from AT&T park, so I’d kind of prefer for the Giants to make the playoffs because it’s fun to have the city buzzing and going to playoff games is an great experience even if your team isn’t in it. And of course there’s the chance of a Giants-Yankees World Series, which would be awesome. I bought tickets to the 2010 WS hoping that would happen, and ended up selling them (for a massive profit!).

            That’s also why I’m rooting hard for the A’s. If they make it, there’s a decent chance I’ll get to see a A’s-Yanks playoff game.

            • http://thecarsboneblog.tumblr.com Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle

              That’s really funny, only because a friend and I were talking a few years ago about moving and being able to root for the home team for the sports of the city you’re moving to. After a lot of thought I said it would have to be San Francisco for me. Mostly for non-sports related reasons (lifestyle, atmosphere, weather) But when it comes to sports: I’m no a huge hockey/basketball fan, and off the top of my head I don’t think San Fran has either, as long as the 49er’s aren’t playing the Giants I wouldn’t have a problem rooting for them, and I found nothing to hate about the San Francisco Giants now that Bonds is no longer there. It seems like a great baseball town.

              • Pasta Stumbling Sojo

                Yep, that’s basically exactly how I see it. The Giants (SF) are fun to root for, the park is really beautiful, and they’re in no way enemies of the Yankees. The 49ers are slightly different, but still basically the same as long as they’re not playing the Giants (NY). And it seems like a great sports town. I think not as good as NY, Boston, or Philly (where I went to undergrad), but still very solid. It was a fun place to be around in 2010 and also during the 49ers’ run last year (especially since it ended with an awesome Giants playoff victory).

                My boss apparently is friends with the 49ers’ owner, and said he should be able to get me a seat in the owner’s box and on-field pass for a game this year. If that happens, it’ll be pretty amazing.

                The one thing about being on the west coast is the time that sports is on. 10am football is the only good part, everything else kind of sucks. Most Yankees games start while I’m still at work, and there’s never any sports on no matter the time of year past 10 or 10:30pm.

              • Pasta Stumbling Sojo

                And by the way, there’s hockey in San Jose (40 min from SF) and basketball in Oakland (the Warriors, 20 min from SF) and they may move to SF.

    • mac

      I see it the same way. Even if the Sox got nothing in return, off loading those contracts was an insane win for them. They can trade from the farm and those prospects to fill some holes, sign a FA and be a better team next year with a ton more financial flexibility.

    • CP

      Now they’re free to sign or trade for any big money player over the next few years, and they can replace those horrible contracts with reasonable ones.

      Just like they did over the last two seasons with the deals for Adrian Gonzalez, Crawford, and Beckett?

      The financial flexibility is good, but that doesn’t win games. You need players. Gonzalez is still a very good player, and Crawford could be a very good player if he could stay healthy. The contracts are bad, but sometimes you have to over pay in order to get the talent.

      • Pasta Stumbling Sojo

        Right, I guess the hope now is that they don’t end up making big, worthwhile FA signings and trades, and that they can’t build a contending team from the available talent. But as of yesterday, they definitely weren’t on track to build a great team, and now they at least have the possibility.

  • Frank

    Any way you slice it, this is an amazing deal for the RS. Clean slate. 46M payroll for next season and less after that.

  • Nathan

    Must be nice to roll the dice with huge contracts, see if it works and then trade away the financial responsibility when it doesn’t work.

  • RetroRob

    Fine deal for the Red Sox to fix multiple poor signings that didn’t help since they obviously not a good team. They’re even worse right now, but can rebuild. The Dodgers have money, so they added one of the top 1B’men in the game, and Crawford will help them quite a bit next year. Neither are old. The only part they have to deal with is Beckett.

    For those excited by the Red Sox’s new-found payroll flexibility, the Yankees could do something similar. They could trade Granderson and Cano this offseason for prospects. They could not re-sign Mariano. Soriano will be walking. They could put CC and Tex on waivers. Jeter’s contract drops to $4M after 2013. (A-Rod’s deal can’t be moved, hence I didn’t include.) Payroll drastically reduced. Of course, like the Red Sox, the team will also be quite bad.

    Not exactly the plan to take unless the team is in the same situation as the Sox: They suck.

  • fin

    Theoretically, this is a big win for the Sox but not neccessarily at the expense of the Dodgers. The Sox issues late last year and this year was starting pitching and they had no money to do anything about it. Now they do. The question is, will the pitchers be available that the Sox need to win? As we have seen with the Yankees for years, it can be very hard to put togather the kind of staff you want through FA. The Yankees now have CC and Kuroda through FA but they went through alot of turds along the way.

    The question is, will the Sox hold onto their money and spend on players worth the money and take maybe 3 years to get back to where they want to be, or are they just going to go out during the offseason and sign Hamilton, Grienke and Edwin Jackson in an effort to compete next year?

    • RetroRob

      They could, although that might put them back in the same boat as before. Expensive contracts, declining production. They might reboot themselves off the deck of the Titanic onto the Lusitania.

    • FIPster Doofus

      I think they’ll try to rebuild properly and wait to spend on the right people. Throwing money willy-nilly at a guy like Hamilton would be idiotic.

      • fin

        I agree that would seem most logical as the Sox have to be gun shy about singing FA right now. However, business might trump common sence and the Sox may need to retool immediately to keep the money flowing. Have to think the Sox would loose alot of revenue going into the season with very little chance of competing.

  • Chris

    Odds the Sox sign Hamilton? 150%???

    • http://twitter.com/stumpwoodley Bunt Gardner

      Doubtful.

  • pistol pete

    Imagine a GM entering an off season to spend $258m and getting Crawford at 5yrs and $100m when he’s just had Tommy John surgery and is coming off the worst 2 yrs in his career, or how about Josh Beckett at 2 yrs and $38m following a 5 and 11 season and a 5 run era and has lost 5 mph off his fastball, but wait we’ve got a $21m per yr 1st baseman for just 6 yrs and he’s a power hitter with 15 hr’s and is slugging less than 500, and oh yeah he can’t run either. This deal is very fishy. The Dodgers are clueless. It reminds me of the Herschel Walker deal Dallas sent to Minnesota that paved the way to dumping an aging player with a high profile and becoming free to spend and develop elsewhere. Add to that the Dodgers actually sent players to Boston, unbelievable, just unbelievable.

  • Pasta Stumbling Sojo

    Picture of the Red Sox on the plane to LA: http://i.imgur.com/fcr2G.png

    • The Real Greg

      WE’RE FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

  • pistol pete

    Do the Dodgers need a 3b/dh that makes $27m for 5 years, we’ve got one, he hits about 270 and has 15 hr’s, he can’t run anymore, can’t stay healthy but he was really good years ago. If the Yanks ever dumped Arod on any other team there would be outrage. If you guys think it’s going to be easy to sign Grandy, Swisher, Cano, and a catcher we need badly just look at what Boston paid for 3 downside of their best career number players. The off season is going to be scarry.

    • The Real Greg

      You are on my police’s wanted list too, you know.

      • Andy Pettitte’s Fibula

        You are a tool

  • bkight13

    This is great news for Yankee fans. AGon isn’t over the hill by any means and hardly struggled in Boston. He leaves a gaping hole in their lineup. Crawford was never a good fit in Boston, but he is an All-Star caliber player when allowed to run. Beckett is up and down, but has been a horse for them for years. It would be like the Yankees trading Tex, Granderson, Kuroda/Pettitte and Nunez for some minor leaguers. The Sox have lost Youk, AGon, Crawford, Beckett, Rizzo, Casey Kelly and the ability to overspend in the draft. Not good news for them. Ortiz probably walks and they have to decide whether Ellsbury was a fluke and let him go or overpay again and roll the dice. The Nation is ovahhhh!!!

  • pistol pete

    Did the Dodgers only get $12m/?

  • Andy Pettitte’s Fibula

    The Red Sux were trapped in baseball purgatory with a maxed out payroll, bad long term contracts, a dysfunctional clubhouse led by a jackass of a manager and nothing great coming up on the farm and in one fell swoop, the fucking Dodgers let them out.

    They shouldn’t have given Boston shit back in return for talking on all that money but they still gave them one great and one good starting pitching prospect.

    Just fucking unbelievable.

  • mike_h

    this means Soriano WILL opt out of the last year of his contract and WILL seek $16 million extension with the Red Sox.

    Also expect the Red Sox to go after Swisher hard. Wont surprise me if they offer a 5year deal worth $75 million to Swisher.

    • Mike c

      swisher at $15M a year? I guess they could but who knows. if they are really actually rebuilding that means they are going to need a few years to reload, so I doubt they would really want swisher in his mid 30’s making that much money

  • Mike c

    apparently the sox put lester and ellsbury on waivers too. crazy– they really want to blow it all up
    http://aol.sportingnews.com/ml.....z-josh-bec

  • Elmgrovegnome

    This makes a lot of sense for Boston. That team thought they were bigger than the organization. The FO of the Redsox has flexed their muscle and showed that team who is the boss……..long overdue.

    The attitude of that group of players couldn’t be fixed even if they brought Francona back and installed a KFC with a bar in the clubhouse.

    Way to smack some heads and come out on top with the cash dump.

  • John Bonanno

    I’m a little surprised the Yankees didn’t play a little “chicken” with the Red Sox and claim Adrian Gonzalez.

    Sure he is expensive but he wouldn’t be a bad consolation prize if the Sox actually let the Yankees have him, which they probably wouldn’t. The Yankees may regret passing on the opportunity to put the kibosh on this potential deal which will be a financial Godsend for the Red Sox if Ben Cherington uses the money wisely. I believe if the Yankees had known this transaction was possible, they would have blocked it.

    • Elmgrovegnome

      On top of all of the Boston Ballyhoo in this trade….it is a huge slap in the face of Theo Epstein. Almost like Cherington thanking him for screwing it all up.

      This is a great opportunity for Cherington to look like a GM genius……if he can follow thru.