Dec
04

Open Thread: Day Two from Nashville

By

Day Two of the Winter Meeting is (almost) in the books, and the Yankees have yet to do anything fancy other than confirm Alex Rodriguez‘s new hip injury. Not exactly what we were all hoping for, I assume. Here’s a look back at today’s rumors in case you missed some of them. Seems like the Yankees have officially shifted their focus towards finding a new third baseman.

Anyway, here is your open thread for the evening. The Nets are playing and that’s pretty much it. Talk about whatever here, enjoy.

Categories : Open Thread
  • Guest

    @JonHeymanCBS Keppinger said looking for close $12M plus for 3 yrs. Had nice year in tampa. Nyy likes. #fibula

    I don’t really care about Jeff Keppinger, but #fibula very well may be the greatest hashtag of all-time.

    • Gonzo

      Reminds me of when Al Michaels(?) said, “he’s got a back.”

    • vin

      I agree. Heyman strikes me as a grade-A jerkoff… but he does make me chuckle once in awhile.

  • Simon

    Should we be hoping the D’Backs trade Upton to the Indians (or the Yankees, to be extremely optimistic) in order for the Indians to make Choo available? Or is Choo available already, would the trade make the price cheaper?

    • Matt :: Sec110

      Seems like a lot of Indians are available.

      • MannyGeee

        Trade for all the Indianz!!

    • Jacob

      Yes because if we had to choose between Choo or Upton we should always root for Upton to go to the Indians so they no longer have a use for Choo and we can pounce. Makes sense

    • Laz

      Why exactly would the Indians trade for Upton??? They have maybe 2% chance of making it to the playoffs, don’t see why they would trade away their prospects when they need to rebuild and probably won’t compete for the 3 years of control of Upton.

  • ken

    what’s AARON BOONE DOING?

  • Curtis

    I don’t know where to put this but LOLredsox. Cherington needs to be drug tested.

    • Steve (different one)

      Yeah, this move doesn’t wow me

      • MannyGeee

        It wow’d #EddardWorld… Jus sayin

    • https://twitter.com/Paddock9652 Stratman9652

      “Lets trade off all our bad contracts so that we can do it all over again with shittier players.”

      Sounds about right.

      • Jacob

        I like it

        • jjyank

          As do I.

          • Anal Hershiser

            … until they trade Ellsbury for an ace starting pitcher (Philly?). Lester as a 2 and Buccholz as a 3 and that last place team isn’t so bad anymore.

            • jjyank

              That last place team needs to make that trade first. Let’s worry about it then. As of right now, they are a significantly worse team than they were exactly 1 year ago, and that assessment is including the signings of Victorino, Gomes, and Napoli.

              • MannyGeee

                Word. Even if they trade for a Felix Hernandez, you got to put at least 2 runs on the board to win most games…. Go ask Felix Hernandez!!

                Napoli and Victorino ain’t it folks.

    • Laz

      Is not just him, signing contracts of that size usually are looked at by President of team and Owner.

  • vin

    Scenarios I’d be OK with…
    – Keppinger/Chavez platoon at 3B
    – Reynolds/Chavez platoon at 3B
    – Romine as the starting catcher, but only if they have a viable hitting RFer.
    – AJ Pierz on a 1 year deal (don’t think they can afford a 2 year deal and still be under 189 mil)

  • mt

    I like your list but would add a catcher with some power as back-up. I am also OK with Romine if we get a higher quality RF. Not sure why AJ would take a one year deal.

    • Jersey Joe

      Not many quality RFs out there, especially with this crazy market inflation.

  • Jacob

    Honestly I think trading Granderson is a good idea, BUT I also think it would possibly(most likely) a terrible idea so ya know disregard. Unless we get some real good stuff from him though.

    • Laz

      All depends what the return is. I’m not opposed to it if they can get some real talent, but if they only gonna get one ok but not great prospect they might as well keep him.

  • Harris

    Best news of the winter meetings has been the Red Sox overpaying on mediocrity. Napoli, Victorino, and Gomes are solid, but they’re paying market value in a weak market and it’s just reckless.

    I’m hoping the Yanks could take advantage of this market by trading Grandy for a boat load. If they can’t get what they think is above market value, then they should just keep him, but I’d rather build the farm then let him go for a supplemental pick next year.

    Also, I’d be happy with Keppinger, Youkilis, Reynolds, or Scutaro. Re signing Chavez is a must, but hopefully they can land one of those guys as well.

    • Ted Nelson

      The Red Sox are loading up on RH power to take advantage of the confines of their stadium.

      Not sure that this market is nearly as inflated as people seem to think. Does every baseball fan forget the previous off-season during every season? Every off-season guys sign huge deals and people act like it’s never happened before.

  • Harris

    Best news of the winter meetings has been the Red Sox overpaying on mediocrity. Napoli, Victorino, and Gomes are solid, but they’re paying market value in a weak market and it’s just reckless.

    I’m hoping the Yanks could take advantage of this market by trading Grandy for a boat load. If they can’t get what they think is above market value, then they should just keep him, but I’d rather build the farm then let him go for a supplemental pick next year.

    Also, I’d be happy with Keppinger, Youkilis, Reynolds, or Scutaro. Re signing Chavez is a must, but hopefully they can land one of those guys as well.

  • Jacob

    On a note other than the Yankees: If the Royals are serious about Meyers for a Pitcher the Rays have to pounce, they are going no where without more offense. I realize I am rooting for the Rays to get better but only becuase it makes the division more competitive and exciting.

    • mustang

      No.
      What last year wasn’t exciting enough for you?

      • Jacob

        The fact it was not enough of a competition and the only reason it was close is because we went into a team slump that everyone thought was complete doom.

        • Jersey Joe

          Why should that change anything? It was complete doom. Losing 9 games in standings means something is really wrong.

          • Jacob

            It was last year? Nothing is wrong with wanting to see crazy competition

            • Jersey Joe

              When you were 9 games up were you cheering for O’s and Rays to pull through? Seriously?

    • Ted Nelson

      Rays would likely get worse in 2013 if they traded Shields for Myers. I think it would be a great move for them long-term, but Shields is a pretty good P while Myers is a rookie and Shields’ replacement is probably Chris Archer or Jeff Neimmann or Wade Davis or someone else who is unlikely to be nearly as good.

  • Bigfly71

    What about doing a one year flyer on Scott Rolen? Always been a defensive stud and is a righty…

    • Jacob

      And almost(if not already) 40 with no bat and can barely stay on the feild for that matter.

    • https://twitter.com/Paddock9652 Stratman9652

      I think I heard something about him retiring after 2012.

    • Get Phelps Up

      Pretty sure he’s going to retire.

    • Jersey Joe

      Agree with previous comments, but if NYY got Drew, he would be a perfect fit.

  • G

    https://twitter.com/ChiTribRogers/status/276077188049170432

    This has to be misinformation right? I know there was confirmation that Cashman talked with Pierzynski, but it seems like such a flimsy source.

    • MannyGeee

      Chicago Tribune seems credible. News seems like a bum out though.

  • Chris in Maine

    thats one more team out of the Swisher race. I wonder if he comes back for a one year deal for 14 or 15?

    • Now Batting

      Wouldn’t give Swisher 50 bucks to come back.

      • jjyank

        Well that’s just dumb. No offense.

        • Now Batting
          • jjyank

            Gee thanks, mister! I have no idea what literary tools are!

            Your comment implies that you would not take Swisher back at the minimum requirement to sign him, and that is just stupid.

      • Vertical Pinstripe

        Swish is not signing for $50, or a one year contract.

  • Vinnie

    I put together a trade and I’m sure its as ridiculous as most but let me know your thoughts.. First here’s my rationale – Yanks are trying to get under 189 in 2 years and they have a lot of prospects who are more than 2 years from coming up. These prospects wont help them for now so sell ship to get two pieces who can help now. you can always go nuts after 2014 in free agency when you don’t have to worry about the cap.

    Cleveland
    -Tyler Skaggs
    -Gary Sanchez
    -Ivan Nova
    -Slade Heathcott

    Yankees
    -Carlos Santana
    -Justin Upton

    Dbacks
    -Asdrubal Cabrera
    -Justin Masterson
    -Tyler Austin
    -Angelo Grumbs
    -Rafeal De Paula

    Yanks get their Posada like catcher / right fielder. Cheap, young, and controllable. It depletes their farm system but it still leaves them with Mason to replace Grandy and Banuelos who could still help the rotation in 2014.

    Yanks match up with Cleveland better than Arizona – so Cle. gets Nova & Skaggs for their rotation needs. G. Sanchez to groom. and idk, Slade reminds me of Grady Sizemore lol.

    Arizona gets a # 2 starter, a shortstop, a great replacement for Aaron Hill, a huge prospect, and a high ceiling pitching prospect. I don’t think they are in 100% rebuilding mode, I think they are just looking for ways to improve their team overall.

    I know it’s delusional but it was overall fun to make up.. so let me know what you think and tare this proposal apart lol.

    • Giancarlo Stanton 2017

      If I’m selling the farm I want Stanton. His offense would make up for Romine behind the plate.

    • Vertical Pinstripe

      I like Carlos Santana, but I prefer another player who hits with more power. Neul Young.

    • Jacob

      Just nahh

    • Jersey Joe

      I really like that idea, don’t know why any of those gm’s wouldn’t do that in a heartbeat.

    • mustang

      I like it.

    • Jersey Joe

      I think we might have to toss in Petey O’Brien to the DBacks. Just a thought.

    • Preston

      I would do it. It would be tough to lose that much on the farm, but I think it would be worth while to get those two guys. Overall though, I think both sides are a little light. It’s definitely enough to get Upton and Sanchez. But to get the Indians to move Cabrera and Masterson and the Dbacks to move Skaggs? I don’t know. I think you’d have to add Phelps and Mason in their somewhere to make it actually work.

    • Big Member

      I strongly doubt that 2 top 50 prospects (being really high on Slade), a top 75-100 prospect (Austin), 2 low reward lottery tickets and Nova will get you Santana and Upton. If I am the Indians, this is the package I would ask for Santana alone.

      Arizona and Cleveland match very well though.

      • Need Pitching & Hitting

        Austin was ranked #39 on Baseball America’s midseason list, fwiw.

    • Jersey Joe

      Not sure if you’d need to add Williams, but definitely Phelps and maybe Bichette Jr./Adams along with low prospect to AZ.

    • Reggie C.

      You get an A for creativity.

    • Laz

      Probably takes more, and I’m not a fan. They need to get younger, and while they get 2 players they are selling the whole farm for a couple players. This is how you get in the mess of constantly having old players that are breaking down. Upton is already costing $13M aav, so it isn’t like the contract is free, you are only saving $5-6M off of free agent price, and you give up so many prospects.

    • MannyGeee

      That’s a shit ton of moving pieces. It’s an utter shit ton… But you’re being creative, I like it!

      Uptons a stud and all, jus having trouble thinking Cashman let’s his farm get choked out again.

    • http://www.nesn.com/2011/01/2011-red-sox-will-challenge-1927-yankees-for-title-of-greatest-team-in-major-league-history.html wilk

      can’t see the indians trading santana, asdrubal, AND masterson for that package.

      you get an A for effort, though

    • Tom

      Creative deal and it fits a lot of the various team needs.

      Seems light on the Yankees side (they might not be giving up enough), depending where folks are on Upton – potential superstar vs toolsy guy who will be very good but never quite meet expectations. That said given the budget nonsense I’m not sure I’d deplete the system that much and bank on Upton being a superstar.

      Cleveland’s return looks light depending on how you value Nova. I’d think they’d want at least one more good piece – they are moving 3 MLB pieces for 3 good prospects and Ivan Nova?

      The Dbacks return on Skaggs (a top 15 prospect last year) and Upton also is a little light – a SS with 2 years of control, a good/OK starter with 2 years of control (I’m not a huge Masterson fan), a very good (but not elite) OF prospect and a couple of lottery tickets (high upside/pretty low floor). I think they’d almost want just a slightly lesser package for Upton alone.

      If you took say Masterson out of that deal would the DBacks do that for just Upton? My guess is that it becomes “maybe” which effectively means Skaggs for Masterson from the Dbacks perspective?

    • http://fendersonandhampton.com Cuso

      Ahem, so the Yanks get the two most valuable players out of all players switching teams and everyone else gets prospects that are forecasted to be good.

      Translation: The Indians and D-backs have to move ends of the Earth to make the Yankees better immediately.

      If the D-Backs and Indians wanted to move around Asdrubal Canters & Justin Upton, they wouldn’t include us just for “our sake.”

      Creative and fun idea, sure. But there’s an equal chance of trading A-Rod straight up for Stanton. In other words: no chance in hell. Hit Vinnie Mac’s music!

    • vinnie

      i gotta give myself credit when its due. i proposed the idea of a 3 team trade with cleveland sending asdrubal cabrera to the d backs and another team getting upton… and look whats been all over MLBTR today…

      cashman gimme a call when you need a protege

  • William

    Wow……..that’s pretty good!

  • Giancarlo Stanton 2017

    Open question, would you (as a yankee fan) be willing to chip in $200, if most other die hards did too, to pay off A-Rod’s salary?

    Just curious as to what you guys think.

    • paul a

      GLADLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Jacob

        It seems like stuart lets you off the leash at 8 o’clock

    • mustang

      I can’t begin to tell you

      1- How stupid this question is.

      2- how strongly I would say NO.

      3- how dumb I feel just answering this.

    • Preston

      To what end?

    • Jersey Joe

      Hm, I think all Yankees Universe –> ARod’ salary being paid off.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Fuck that. His contract is their problem, not mine.

      • Jacob

        :o RT MIKE IS CURSING AT THE TROLLS AGAIN!

    • https://twitter.com/Paddock9652 Stratman9652

      What amazes me is how many people were completely cool with the prospect of this hip thing being a career ender so the Yankees could get out of the money. The contract sucks and he may not be the greatest guy in the world but wishing a guys career to end is pretty bad.

      • Havok9120

        Pretty much this.

        I get the frustration with his performance/injuries, the problems the contract is causing, the wealth envy, and people just plain not liking the guy but….sheesh. Hoping/liking that he might have a career ending injury is (or at least should be) beyond the line.

    • jjyank

      I think this is an incredibly stupid question.

    • https://twitter.com/MattMontero1 matt montero

      It really won’t help anything because the Yankees would still be the one officially paying off his salary in the buyout (unless it’s possible to essentially bribe Arod to retire, but I feel like the MLB or someone would have a proble with that). Therefore, there’s really no benefit to this, unless he’s a clubhouse cancer.

  • Pat D

    All my weeks of laziness have caught up with me and now I need to “prove” that I’ve been searching for a job.

    That’s right. In Pennsylvania, we’ll approve you for Trade Act retraining where you can go back to school and actually learn a useful skill, but if you don’t try to find some job that might be lower paying than your last job, we won’t let you.

    If I ever meet Tom Corbett, I will kick his ass. And the rest of the PA lawmakers who voted for these changes.

    • forensic

      You’re cursing them for actually wanting people to show they have some semblance of motivation, initiative and desire to work before they pay for them to have free post-high school training?

      So, it’d be better if they just gave it to everyone and then those schmucks who just sat around doing nothing before could do it again, only this time after having the state waste money attempting to teach them a useful skill?

      I don’t blame them one bit and I’m not saying you’re one of those people, but I can’t agree with your POV on this one bit, unless there are details not included that I don’t know about.

      • jjyank

        I get both point of views. The lawmakers here are trying to make sure they aren’t paying for a dead-beat to fuck around, and guy like Pat want to be productive members of society without having to be a fucking waiter or some such bullshit in the meantime. And I understand not wanting to work a bullshit job that you hate in the meantime. I’m doing it myself right now. Such is life, I suppose.

      • Pat D

        I was laid off. I didn’t get fired for cause or anything like that. I’m not some kind of deadbeat living off the government because I don’t want to work. I got a decent severance from my employer, so I didn’t have a large need to find a job right away (this was July). When I was ready to start searching, I got all the notifications that I was eligible for this retraining and I thought that was my best option. It wasn’t until I started to go into that process that I found out about the job search requirements.

        So I’m going over all of these sites, and the problem is that it’s so damned depressing. I don’t feel I’m qualified for since all I’ve done for the last 11 years are retail and customer service jobs. I get all these “recommendations,” but most of them have something that, in my eyes, disqualifies me. Some places want a 4 year degree, I only have a two year degree. I’m getting recommendations for sales positions, they all want experience I don’t have.

        It’s just that the process is so frustrating. I know I sound whiny and ungrateful in my original post but I just think that they have made this so much harder on people.

        • jjyank

          Pat, you know my stop-gap job is working at a bank. Have you considered that as an option? Banks love people with sales experience. Today’s banking atmosphere is all about selling accounts and products. As far as I know about you, I think you’d be great on platform. That’s industry jargon for “the dude at the desk”. Each bank has a different title for it. They open accounts, cross sell, and pitch new products. They get big commissions for things like loans and mortgages too. I know you’re searching, so I just thought I’d throw that out there.

        • forensic

          But devil’s advocate, if you got a nice severance, wouldn’t it have been nicer to take a week off and then start looking for a job right away and consider the severance a nice bonus for your savings? And I know you were laid off, but they can’t write different sets of rules for everyone. Unfortunately, sometimes they have to account for the lowest common denominator in these sorts of things.

          And jj,, I know how it goes. I worked at a driving range after grad school until i could get a job to start my career. I didn’t really hate it, it had some nice little perks, but it’s not what I spent years getting graduate degrees for. But, it gets you money and puts food on the table. Even when I got my job, I had to move across country on very short notice. Life, and the processes involved, aren’t always easy or enjoyable, but that’s how it goes.

          • jjyank

            I don’t HATE working at a bank, but I do hate most customers. And that’s obviously a big part. But I know you’re right. I need a stop-gap. I am currently awaiting the sixth (!) step in the application process that started nine (!) months ago. I just needed a paycheck to wait for the forever land that is government employment. It is my dream job though, so it’s worth it.

          • Pat D

            I was so burned out from my job that I need more than a week to chill out. Sounds bad, I know, but after 6 1/2 years of that job with the constant pressure from both customers and supervisors, I was ready to snap.

            Yes, I understand that there can’t be different rules for everyone. But these requirements only began in this state this year, and it’s pretty much mainly because the same party controlled the legislature and the governor’s office. That’s why I’m kind of bitter.

  • Josh

    How about this idea:

    The Marlins are clearly eager to unload Yunel Escobar.

    Ricky Nolasco recently requested a trade and, although the Marlins have said they don’t want to trade him, probably will still listen to offers – especially if a team picks up his contract.

    Finally, you have a disgruntled young phenom in Giancarlo Stanton, who appears to want out of Miami as soon as possible.

    The Yankees, as of today, are reportedly exploring their options in a trade for Curtis Granderson. When I think of teams in search of help in CF one specific team comes to mind – and that’s the Philadelphia Phillies. What if the Yankees were able to deal Granderson to Philly in exchange for one or two prospects (who I assume would be pretty good prospects considering Granderson’s power output), while eating part of his salary (if they can’t move it all)?

    Stay with me, here’s where it’s summed up.

    By getting a prospect or two from Philadelphia, what if the Yankees were able to take those prospects and package them with some of their own for this:

    Yankees get:
    INF Yunel Escobar
    RHP Ricky Nolasco (+ contract, which is just this one season)
    RF Giancarlo Stanton

    Marlins get:
    Prospect(s) from Philadelphia (include both if it means you don’t have to give up Williams/Austin)
    David Phelps/Ivan Nova
    Slade Heathcott
    Brett Marshall
    Eduardo Nunez
    (Possibly Mason Williams/Tyler Austin)

    The Yankees could entice Miami by taking on Nolasco’s salary, as well as Escobar in the same deal with Stanton. For the Yanks, they fill a hole in the rotation (albeit Nolasco is an average pitcher), pick up a stop-gap 3B/SS, and the production they so desperately need from right field. The Marlins get a major league ready pitcher who could step into their rotation, an infielder who could play 3B/SS/2B for less $$$ than Escobar, and a plethora of prospects.

    I know this proposal is crazy, and my trade proposal sucks – but this would be the ideal trade I’d look for right now.

    • MannyGeee

      Bless your heart, you think Nolasco is anywhere near average…

      Also, the rest of that??? YTPS

    • http://www.nesn.com/2011/01/2011-red-sox-will-challenge-1927-yankees-for-title-of-greatest-team-in-major-league-history.html wilk

      dude, we’re not getting giancarlo without absolutely selling out our farm system.

  • Big Member

    Wishlist:

    M.Reynolds- 1 year 6 mill (3 mill in bonuses)
    E.Jackson- 2 years 20 mill (opt out option after year 1?)
    A.J Ellis. Ned will smartly replace him with a superior AJ. Please Ned.

  • http://www.twitter.com/matt__harris Matt :: Sec110

    The more I think about it, I really like a platoon option in RF and 3B.

    3B – Youkilis/Chavez
    RF – Ichiro/Hairston or Keppinger? (although they both require multi year deals

    I’d really favor towards Pierzynski at catcher for 1 year only though and back him up with Cervelli or Stewart.

    • Ted Nelson

      I’d do Drew and/or Keppinger, if not and then Chavez/Stewart, Schierholtz and Ross/Hairston.

      • http://fendersonandhampton.com Cuso

        People need to get the Drew-playing-3B thing out of their minds.

        • Ted Nelson

          Because you read a rumor that someone with no relation to him said he’s looking for a full-time job? He can play full-time between SS and 3B if the Yankees want to go that route.

  • Robbie Q

    Read the comments and you’ll realize why people hate Yankee fans.

    http://bleacherreport.com/arti.....granderson

    This makes me thankful for RAB

    • jjyank

      I couldn’t get much further than they guy bitching about how the Yankees gave up on Max Scherzer. Some people are just really, really stupid.

  • pistol pete

    George would just go and sign Hamilton and stop worrying about all the has beens. If they can’t get Stanton or Hamilton the rest of their options are like shopping at K Mart. Give me a break, we’ve lost power in RF C and 3B and Jeter won’t likely play SS or hit like last season. If the Yankees don’t get a real middle of the lineup power hitter they’ll be last years version of the Red Sox. Looking at some of the recent signings nobody decent is coming cheap. Victorino 3 and 39, Napoli 3 and 39, and Pagan 4 and 40, are you kidding me and we cheaped out on Martin’s 2 for 17m. The Yankees used to own the off season now they’re has beens, tough to watch.

    • MannyGeee

      George was not a patient or “baseball smart” man. He signed Gary Sheffield 5 years too late and traded for randy Johnson 4 yrs too late.

      Feel free to root for the rays or the dodgers. For real.

  • Pat D

    New Orleans Pelicans, huh? Is it me or does that just sound a little whimpy for a pro sports team?

    • http://fendersonandhampton.com Cuso
    • MannyGeee (189M or bust, bitches!)

      I love it. And I also love the potential return of the Charlotte Hornets. The 90’s are still alive. Suck it

  • The Real Greg

    I don’t know how to judge the Nets. They’ve beaten some good teams but not many. They’ve played close to the Lakers and Thunder, but haven’t been able to win those games.

    • JobaWockeeZ

      Better than the Knicks. But they are a notch below the elite teams.

    • Rivera Venue Blues

      Also a work in progress. It’s gonna take a good 30-40 games at least for a new group of guys to gel and find an identity. Definitely not an elite team right but somewhere in the mess of teams after the Heat, Thunder, Grizzlies, Spurs.

      They still haven’t played many games with their full lineup healthy and whether the guys they have are durable enough to ever do so is another question…

  • The Real Greg

    Reports that the Rays are close to picking up Yunel Escobar are bubbling up.

    So with that, the Yankees and the Orioles, the two playoff teams in the division are sitting on their hands.

  • Anthony

    My cousin just told me there was news Youkilis might be a Yankee, but I can’t find it anywhere/don’t know if he’s trolling me.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting

      I’ve seen reports that Cash met with his agent, and also that the Yankees requested Youk’s medicals, but that they were far apart on $$.

      https://twitter.com/DanBarbarisi/status/276142260033310721

      • Anthony

        Wow. Thanks for this. A one year deal would be great, IMO.

  • NYCSPORTZFAN

    I’m hoping for AJ PIerzinsky and Jeff Keppinger myself.. Seems like they have something to add this team, that makes it feel more complete, then a bunch of streaky power hitters.. I woulden’t mind Youkilis either, becuase i still think he has a bounce back yr in him, and i woulden’t mind if that happened with yanks..

    So glad we didn’t get Napoli! That guy can’t hit a lick.. I don’t know what he did the yr before,to hit over 300ba, but i seen alot of his AB’s, and he swings at pitches blind folks would lay off.. seriously!

  • Andy Pettitte’s Fibula

    Why the hell would the Red Sux give away Adrian Gonzalez to dump the contracts of Crawford and Beckett to turn around and sign Napoli and Victorino to even shittier contracts?

    Makes no friggin sense.

    3/$39 for Victorino is just a horror especially if they aren’t even gonna use him in CF.

    • Gonzo

      It doesn’t look great. I’m just going to assume ownership gave the FO office a mandate to spend some money but not to get involved with anything longer than 3 years. That’s all I got.

      Or… Cherington thinks they can trade Napoli and Victorino to the Dodgers at the deadline for prospects?

    • forensic

      I disagree they’re worse contracts. They are shorter years left with much less per year being paid. These guys aren’t world beaters, and won’t produce like Gonzalez would have (Beckett and Crawford weren’t doing much for them anyway), but they’re reportedly much better in the clubhouse and they needed a serious overhaul in that department too, on top of the on-field things they needed to fix.

      People are also very focused on Victorino from this year, and understandably so, but just last year he was terrific and very good the years before, and he’ll help a lot with them on the bases and defensively.

      • Andy Pettitte’s Fibula

        They’re for far less money but they are also inferior players.

        I have much more confidence that AGon and Crawford earn more of their salaries over the next 3 years then Napoli and Victorino.

        • Rivera Venue Blues

          Crawford? Lol doubt it. Victorino got 3 for 39? So doesn’t he just have to average around 2.5 WAR per year to be worth it? It’s not a lock but I’d say he’s got a 50-50 shot, no?

          • Rivera Venue Blues

            Victorino’s value according to fangraphs the last three years: 15.1 mill, 26.8 mill, 14.7 mill. Even accounting for age related decline, the deal isn’t long-term enough to really call a bad deal on the level of a Crawford deal.

            • Gonzo

              Depends on how much you value some of his defense. His bWAR for the last two years is 1.3 and 1.1, respectively. You also have to consider that in that in 72% of his PA’s last year (his LH’d PA’s) he was basically Jemile Weeks. If they keep Ellsbury at CF, that’s a possible 72% of Jemile Week’s type PA’s from a corner spot.

            • Ted Nelson

              Don’t try facts with these two. They prefer to just shoot out an irrational opinion and then defend it in the face of all logic.

              • Gonzo

                Yeah facts like WAR, wRC+ and wOBA are not facts.

                Victorino was basically Jemile Weeks at the plate 72% of the time last year. According to wRC+ and wOBA it is a fact.

                People hammer fWAR all the time because of defense, so why not look at another defensive metric for WAR like bWAR. That values him at less than 2.5 WAR for the last 2 seasons combined. That’s a fact. Even fWAR’s calculation says he was a negative at the plate last year. That’s a fact.

                He is under contract for his age 32, 33, and 34 seasons. That’s a fact.

    • Ted Nelson

      For one thing, their contracts aren’t nearly as shitty. Especially as Crawford’s.

      For another, they’re loading up on RH power if you missed that blatantly obvious theme. They’ve got that big green wall like 10 feet past the IF grass in left field.

      They’re also reportedly considering trading Ellsbury.

      • Andy Pettitte’s Fibula

        They got a DH/1B who’s often hurt, can barely play catcher who’s value is overrated after a career year in 2011 and an aging player who’s game is all speed and showed little power the last year+ even in a launching pad like Philadelphia.

        I’d bet any amount of money Victorino and Napoli’s production doesn’t justify their contracts.

        Keith Law already is on record saying he has strong doubts Napoli will live up to his contract and I’ll bet he’ll be writing the same about the Victorino contract tomorrow.

        Then again, if I posted what great deals these were for the Red Sox, I’m sure you’d be explaining why they weren’t.

        Such is life in the world of the the great contrarian, Ted Nelson.

        • Gonzo

          I really wanted to avoid this, but only 28% of Victorino’s PA’s last year were RH’d too.

          • Andy Pettitte’s Fibula

            Good point.

            No matter what I post, he takes the opposite position like he does with you. Troll,stalker, I don’t know what you call it.

            I have no doubt if I praised those 2 RedSox signings, he’d shoot them down as being bad values.

            • Ted Nelson

              Keep telling yourself that.

      • Andy Pettitte’s Fibula

        It you don’t believe me, take a look as these comments written by someone who analyzes these deals for a living.

        http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb.....d-fail-mlb

        http://espn.go.com/blog/boston.....al-as-risk

        • Ted Nelson

          That Keith Law shares your opinion is not proof that it’s right. Try harder. That your whole argument is an appeal to authority and you call me a troll is hilarious. Stay in school. I hope you’re only like 15, because that would make your comments acceptable.

          Napoli has had a wOBA above .340 every single year of his career. .350 4 of the last 5 years. Getting a solid 1B like that at $13 million is not a bad deal at all. That he can C at least a bit is nice icing on the cake. I don’t think it’s the greatest value in the world, but it’s not bad and it’s not that long a commitment.

          Victorino has plenty of pop from the right side. Your ignorance isn’t an excuse. He’s a CF who posted a wOBA above .330 for 7 seasons in a row. One bad season isn’t a sure sign of irreversible decline, no matter what you hysterical Yankees fans think.

          Gomes likewise has a TON of power from the right side.

          Those three will probably put about similar total production to the three they gave to LA for $20 million less and are only signed 2-3 years. It’s not bargain bin shopping, it’s free agency. Those are solid, market value deals.

          You accuse me of just disagreeing with you for the fun of it. The reality is that I tend to always disagree with you because you hold everything up to ridiculous standards of perfection rather than realistic standards.

          • Gonzo

            Yeah man, right-handers. They hit a ton of HR’s at Fenway probably like the way lefties kill at Yankees stadium, right?

            You got facts to back that up? The park factors for HR’s for a lefty in YSII are 116 for 2009, 2010, and 2011.

            So park factors for HR’s for righties in Fenway should be close to that, right? I mean if you’re making a big deal about it, it really should be right?

            Why don’t you look it up.

  • wow

    the offseason so far: the rest of the division gets better while the Yankees get older. ugh. 2013 and 2014 are going to be awesome.

    • mustang

      With this pitchers and catchers report tomorrow not only for 2013 but 2014 as well.

  • joey12508

    I dont like the direction ownership is taking. Really miss George and his desire to give New York a winner. Its all about making money and keeping it. They will sell this team, they dont care about the fans like ther father. Expect another subpar season.
    It sucks… JMO

    • Ted Nelson

      I don’t know how old you are, but you might want to look into the history of George Steinbrenner a little. He wanted a winner, but his actions often prevented the team from winning.

    • Dave

      We are now seeing the difference between actual Yankee fans and those that just rooted because they spent the most. #spoiledbrats