Dec
12

Wednesday Night Open Thread

By

Here is your open thread for the night. The Nets are playing and that’s pretty much it, unfortunately. Still no hockey. Talk about whatever you like though, have at it.

Categories : Open Thread

156 Comments»

  1. CountryClub says:

    The sandy concert is on at 7:30 from MSG. Springsteen, Joel, the who, the stones, roger waters, Kane west, Eddie Vedder, Alicia keys, McCartney, etc…

    Should be a great show if you’re a music fan.

    • Cris Pengiucci says:

      Looking forward to seeing/hearing The Who. Haven’t seen or heard them live since Entwistle died. He was my favorite. Glad I get to check them out for free. Pino Pallidino is a great bass player, but his style is so different than John’s was. I’m anticipating this being “The Pete Townshend Show”. Love his song writing, but I don’t expect them to have the same power as they used to have.

      • Anal Hershiser says:

        possible for them to have the power they used to have? … I say impossible – hoping Mr. Vedder (who is a huge Who/Pete fan) helps out

      • Pistol Pete says:

        Love the Who but Roger can’t sing anymore, we’re all getting old. I saw him at the start of one of their reunions in a small Civic Center in Glens Falls 25 years ago and I thought he was old then. Great concert though, great cause, gor Cheryl Crowe on the phone.

    • forensic says:

      I wasn’t going to bother watching, but it drew me in and much of it was actually pretty good.

    • vicki says:

      wish they’d died before they got old.

      entwistle, bah. who was over long ago. freedom tastes of conformity.

  2. jjyank says:

    So very excited. Me and 3 coworkers are planning a snowboarding trip in January. Granted, only one of them would be able to keep me in their field of vision if I let it fly, but it’s all good. I haven’t been to the mountain since I fractured my elbow last February, and this might be my only shot to go this year.

    For those that don’t know me, snowboarding is far and away my favorite thing to do. Can. Not. Wait.

    • Trollin' says:

      Do. Not. Care.

    • Cris Pengiucci says:

      I haven’t been skiing in years. Of course, the snow here in CO hasn’t been the greatest recently, but even bad CO snow is better than good east coast snow.

      The mountains got hit this past weekend and more is expected, but not any major dumps. I’ll keep my eyes on things and maybe get a few days in this winter.

      • jjyank says:

        Man I am so jealous. Considering the snowboard bum that I am at heart, it’s a damn shame I haven’t gotten out West. Best mountains I’ve been to is Mount Tremblant, Stowe, Jay Peak, and Sugarbush, in that order. Once I make more money, I plan on changing that list drastically, though.

        • Cris Pengiucci says:

          I used to ski Sugarbush, Killington and Mad River Glen regularly. I also visited CO once a year at least, as my brother has lived here since ’85. You won’t want to ski the east coast again after skiing here. Huge difference. Save your pennies and make a trip within the next couple of years.

          • jjyank says:

            Oh, I don’t doubt that for a second. I fully plan on being the guy that takes his vacations in February instead of the summer. My list right now is Jackson Hole, Vail, Breckenridge, and Mammoth. I hope to add more to that.

            Not a huge Killington fan. It’s alright, but the southern VT mountains like Killington and Okemo are a bit too crowded with NY tourists for my liking. And as you probably know, I’ve never experienced Mad River. They’re one of the hold outs that doesn’t let snowboarders on the slopes. Loss of revenue for them.

            • Ethan says:

              Make a trip to Tahoe. I have cousins out there and my brother who lives in SF skis there. I’ve been once but a long time ago. Supposed to be really great.

              • jjyank says:

                Also on that list. Had the (dis)pleasure of seeing my (now ex) girlfriend’s pictures of Tahoe when she went to visit UC Hastings for law school. I’ll get there.

                • Cris Pengiucci says:

                  And Utah snow is great as well. Best powder in CO is supposed to be at Steamboat Springs. I love it there, probably my favorite ski area in CO. It has a real western feel and lots of tree skiing.

                  • jjyank says:

                    Awesome dude. I’ll add that to my list. And I love me some tree boarding. Gotta make sure to bring my freestyle board for that though, much more flexible in the glades.

            • Cris Pengiucci says:

              I used to ski with a friend/co-worker that was born in Switzerland. He’s one of those guys that you watch from the chair lifts and say “Wow, I wish I could ski like him!”. I asked him when he learned to ski and he said that he just always remembers doing it. He would push me on to the toughest runs and forced me to become a better skier. We’d go to Mad River occasionally, but normally skied Sugarbush and Sugarbush North (is it still called that?). He retired a couple of years ago and moved to the Apsen area with his wife.

              I hear Jackson Hole has some awesome steeps. Vail is huge. Breckenridge has a nice town at the base, great for apres ski. Not my favorite ski area, but I do need to give it a try again.

              • jjyank says:

                No Sugarbush North, not sure what that is. Stowe is north of Sugarbush. That’s the closest major mountain to the north that I know of. Also could be Smuggler’s Notch.

                I appreciate the input. I can’t wait to have the cash to get out to some of those places.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            Agreed. I have no motivation to ski in VT anymore after CO and WY.

    • Ethan says:

      I used to love to ski. I haven’t been in 7 years. But this Christmas I’ll be going with the family to ski in the alps. Cannot wait!

      • jjyank says:

        Like the Swish Alps? I hate you right now.

        • Ethan says:

          Swiss but yeah. Should be pretty good.

          • jjyank says:

            Hahaha wow, holy Freudian Slip. You know what I meant. I’m sure that’d be a blast dude. Someday when I’m pulling 6 figures a year, I’ll do that myself.

            • Ethan says:

              Hahaha yeah. My family is living in copenhagen right now so i’m flying there for the christmas break (in my final year of college/university). We’re driving down to go skiing in Switzerland for like a week. Really pumped cause I haven’t been skiing in 7 or 8 years. Hopefully it’s just like riding a bike.

          • Cris Pengiucci says:

            Always wanted to go, but never did. Also wanted to go to Chamonix. My wife doesn’t scki, but she’ll be happy to sit in the lodge and enjoy the wine.

            • Ethan says:

              We’re going to St. Moritz. I don’t think it’s the biggest ski area there but supposed to be pretty decent. I think they have something like 350 kilometers of trails, no clue if that’s a lot or not.

  3. The Real Greg says:

    Need….More….Trade….Information.

    • Jacob says:

      I think cash has to be going crazy seeing the possibility of Upton, I know KT said he did not want to trade him but that is like the 45th time he said it. Now that they have their SS I think we would have a better shot.

      • The Real Greg says:

        I would take the focus off of Upton and move it to a certain RF in Florida.

        • Jacob says:

          Honestly I am fine with either one, Upton seems like he would cost us less but if cash got either I would still be super happy.

          • The Real Greg says:

            I’m just thinking about what it would take to get him.
            Granderson, Nova, plus 3 minor league prospects.

            • Jacob says:

              I would do that all day every single day of the year, might take more but I think if we keep just one of Gary Sanchez or Mason Williams or Slade, than the deal is amazing for us .

        • jjyank says:

          That’d be nice. I think Upton is way more easy to get though. Not to say that Upton is easy to acquire, but Stanton is playing for the freaking league minimum still.

          • The Real Greg says:

            They were talking about it on MLB Tonight. They suggested that the Rangers give up Olt, Andrus/Profar,and Manuel Perez

            • Jacob says:

              I think it was stupid of the Rangers to let andrus hold them up in a deal for upton, he is a FA in 2 years and you have a potential star in the making waiting to play now, let him go!

              • vicki says:

                plus one.

                ive got the andrus crush too, but dummies shouldve EASY swapped one-for-one for upton. nolan believing his own press or something.

            • jjyank says:

              For Upton or Stanton? Either way, the Yankees can’t match that.

              • Jacob says:

                Oh Jesus where art thou?

                • jjyank says:

                  Not sure his trade value would be the same in a league without a DH option. He’d help though.

                  • Jacob says:

                    True, but the Marlins don’t have a 1B right now that I can think of do they? Or are they still playing LoMo there?

                    • jjyank says:

                      Not sure. They still have Gabby Sanchez? I don’t follow them that closely. Either way, Stanton’s price tag is way higher than Upton’s. I think I would rather have Upton in that case. In a vacuum though, hell yes give me Stanton.

                    • Jacob says:

                      Gabby went to the pirates. Yeah I agree, Upton would be my preference due to his price tag, Giancarlo in a perfect world. Or just get Upton now and sign Giancarlo as a F/A #trolled

          • Jacob says:

            And he just turned 23, the guy is a monster and he keeps improvig. He played in 27 less games this year than last and still clubbed 37 homers which is 4 more than last year in 100 fewers PAs.

        • pistol pete says:

          Agree Upton couldn’t hold a candle to Stanton.

  4. RC aka oldmanalex says:

    Has Youk made any public comments about him being a Yankee? Any press conference announcement coming up? I wonder what he’ll say. I’ll puke if he says I’ve always wanted to play here…

    • The Real Greg says:

      I think the name Paul O’Neill will come up. Youk grew up in Cincy and was the right age for cheering on the Nasty Boys.

    • Knoxvillain says:

      Well, his uncle said he always wanted to play here. Even when he was on the Sox.

    • RetroRob says:

      The deal isn’t official. He has to pass him physical, and then the Yankees have to clear space on their 40-man. This is one of those signings that has happened, but may not become officially official for a week or two. He won’t say anything until ink is on contract.

  5. vin says:

    One thing I’ll always remember about AJ’s time with the Yankees was all the guys who reached base on a dropped third strike. That might be the most frustrating play in baseball. Frankly, I’m not even sure why it was ever allowed.

    • Bob Buttons says:

      If such rule didn’t exist we might not have won the 1941 World Series.

      And who knows what chain effect it could have had.

    • vicki says:

      not for nothing, but aj’s curve for the called strike 3 was a THING. for hitters to watch go by. for catchers to handle.

      know what i find frustrating? your finding it frustrating when guys who got k’d reached. you’re silly.

  6. Cris Pengiucci says:

    The Yankees play at Coors Field in May. The Rockies are holding a lottery to allow you to buy tickets for the 3 games. Not sure how it’s going to work (have to buy tickets for all 3 or they’ll allow you to buy tickets to the games of your choice or even how many tickets they’ll allow you to buy). Sign up started today and I’m in (along with some other Yankee fans out here I know). The drawing is Jan 16th and they’ll contact the winners some time after that. I’m sure the tickets will be higher priced than normal (last time they double the normal ticket prices), but they’ll still be generally cheaper than Yankee Stadium prices (and I don’t have to pay airfare to go to Denver). One way or another, I’ll go to a couple of the games.

  7. nsalem says:

    A dropped third strike with two outs in the ninth and the Yankees trailing by a run was the turning point of the 1941 WS which the Yankees won. The rule has served us well,

    • Dave in VA says:

      Ah, yes. Tommy Henrich and Mickey Owen both said in their later years that “the one that got away” was the nastiest, breakingest curve they’d ever seen Hugh Casey pitch. Owen said he should have caught it anyway but he didn’t.

      • Jimmy says:

        Man, I heard that story a million times from my Dad over the kitchen table past bedtime. The Daily News supposedly carried a headline with a photo of the play and “Dem Bums” as the headline, hence the nickname “the Bums”.

  8. Jerry says:

    What do you think is weirder…. Youk on the Yanks or Swish with the Sox (if it happens)?

  9. mrdbag says:

    Should the Yankees sign Hamilton first then trade granderson or Vice versa

    • The Real Greg says:

      They aren’t signing Hamilton. Rangers are going to sign him back.

    • Get Phelps Up says:

      Sign Hamilton and not trade Granderson.

    • Jimmy McNulty says:

      Hamilton’s body is beat to shit from years of baseball and all the drugs he did. He’ll never play 150 games in a season. Ever. He’s on the wrong side of 30 and already had health problems. He’s not a wise investment. Don’t get me wrong, he’d be pretty awesome, but we could have two injury prone former Texas superstar juicers that we’d be lucky to get 100 games out of by 2015.

      • MannyGeee says:

        Josh Hamilton juiced? I know he has past drug issues, but I didnt think we were talking steroids?

        Or are you just being a dick?

  10. Jerry says:

    The reason I asked is because, while Youk has more time, history and success with the Sox than Swish had, Swish was much more personable. He was always mingling with people, while Youk seemed to be very reserved. Also, Youk left the Sox on awkward terms… Just asking..

    • The Real Greg says:

      The loss of the beard is the deciding factor in that fight.

    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

      It’s funny how much more things like this means to us fans compared to the players where it’s no big deal in pretty much every sport.

      Money >>>>> Loyalty to a uniform and rightfully so.

      • Jacob says:

        I think loyalty to a team that you were a big part of, you came up in, and who’s fan base loved you should be valued more than money. You are still making millions anyway.

        • jjyank says:

          Depends on how big the difference is. A couple mil? Sure, stay with that team. Significantly more than that? Give me the money. It’s not about the individual player at that point, it’s about setting up his family and his future generations. I’d love to make enough to be rich for life, but I’d love even more to be able to pay for my children’s and grandchildren’s education and more.

        • RetroRob says:

          I think that’s easy to say as the fan. History says almost all ballplayers will take the money once they are on the open market. Look at Cliff Lee. The story is he took less money to play for the team he wanted to play for, but in reality he let the Phillies know he wanted to return and then they worked out a deal to make it happen. Most importantly, he got a higher AAV from the Phillies than what the Yankees were offering, and that is by far and away more important to the players union than total value.

          We do see someone like Evan Longoria, but highly unusual, and even in his case, he’s never gotten close to being a free agent. They locked him up with millions on his first contract before he ever made anywhere near that amount of money, and then when he was feeling that he probably left a lot of money on the table, they went back again years in advance and gave him millions more. Smart move on their part both times. Instead of waiting a year or two out, they offered him millions years out, when he had to weigh the risk as part of the equation.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            It’s also arguably a smart move on Longoria’s part, especially this time with the injury problems he’s had.

            • Jimmy McNulty says:

              Didn’t they give him like 40M before he had 100 ABs in the bigs? I mean I know the contract was a steal for the Rays, but for a kid to get 40M guaranteed out of the fucking gate? That’s a huge security blanket for him, and an awfully risk averse move on his part. If I were an agent for a baseball player and that were offered before my client even had half a season in the bigs I’d tell him to sign it 1000% of the time.

              • RetroRob says:

                I’m not sure what was the exact amount of money they offered him, or how many ABs he had, but you might be right. I think that’s the point. They made him an offer (both times) that were difficutl for him to turn down because in both cases he was years away from realizing better offers. That’s why I think it was a smart move. I suppose it could backfire if he suffers a career-ending injury, but appears to be a good move on the Rays part.

                • Ted Nelson says:

                  I think it’s a good move for the Rays, but it also has Eric Chavez potential. That’s an example of a similar thing that didn’t work out.

              • forensic says:

                He was guaranteed $17.5 million in his first contract, 6 days and 24 PA’s into his career.

                I think that first contract was a win for both sides at the time. Longoria was able to get financial security for life, and maybe for his kids too, no matter what happened from then on and the small market Rays had as close to a sure thing player under contract for sure for 6 years and very reasonable salaries, as the first player drafted under the new regime.

                I think this second contract is extremely questionable from the Rays perspective though. He’s shown some injury issues to this point in his career and he was already under contract for another 4 years anyway (with team options), so I don’t see the need for this right now. Other than the injuries, obviously he’s terrific and clearly the face of the organization and its rise to relevance, but the injuries are very scary and that market can’t make a mistake in that salary range. From his point of view, he could see the injuries and know how his body feels and just want the generational security, and it’s not like $100 million is anything to scoff at anyway.

            • vicki says:

              all eleven rays fans agree.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          By the same logic no team should trade any of its players.

          I don’t think it’s reasonable to ask a player not to do what is in his best interest for the team unless you’re asking the same from the team.

        • Jimmy McNulty says:

          Their behavior last season did nothing to deserve Youkilis’ loyalty to the team. He was right to bolt and leave them behind. The people he was loyal too were no longer there. They threw him under the bus and questioned his work ethic. That’s about the biggest slap in the face to a professional athlete.

          I know occasionally we’ll say “it’s like they’re not event trying” when the Yankees swing at dog shit, or fuck up routine plays, but I don’t think anyone actually believes that these dudes don’t work their fucking balls off. These guys are professionals and take their craft seriously. They at least deserve the proper respect and recognition from their employers. Once teams stop giving them that there’s no reason to be loyal to them.

      • Jimmy McNulty says:

        Well they also did him wrong too. They basically questioned his work ethic and threw him under the bus. He probably would have been loyal to them if they behaved in a way that deserved loyalty.

      • vicki says:

        if you do not wear pinstripes jorge posada will kick your asssss.

    • RetroRob says:

      Swisher going to the Sox will annoy me more, simple because he will probably add 3.5-4 wins to the team, while Youkilis will not do the same for the Yankees. The Red Sox are also a team trying to repair their chemistry and club house, and Swisher is going to be a major factor. Red Sox fans identify him with the Yankees and what they view as his antics no doubt annoy them, yet we all know Swish and it is not a show. That is all him. They will end up loving him, further annoying me. The one drawback he had here in NY is he sucked in the postseason every year, but that won’t be a problem for the Red Sox, and thus by extension, won’t be a problem for the Yankees. : -)

  11. The Real Greg says:

    Always a sucker for a good sax solo.

  12. Robinson Tilapia says:

    Who was that singing before Eddie Vedder? I know the face.

    Someone posted on FB that Eddie Vedder singing “Comfortably Numb” sounds exactly like Eddie Vedder singing “Comfortably Numb.”

  13. Robinson Tilapia says:

    The more time passes, the more I hope the Yankees just keep all the prospects and don’t trade 2 or 3 of them for, well, anyone. It’s just as risky a proposition as anyone else, but I just don’t really ever want to be in the position the team looks to be in going into 2014 AFTER all these one year deals pass. I want Robbie still on board, but I also think it’s time for a new identity to define this team into the next decade.

    Easier said than done, of course.

    Also, Noah’s Mill bourbon on the rocks.

    • Steve says:

      Weren’t you ranting and raving about Wil Myers for James Shields?

      • Robinson Tilapia says:

        Ranting and raving? I thought the deal was better for KC when the majority of folks thought it was better for Tampa. Hardly ranting and raving. Then again, you may live in a monastery.

        What that has to do with the Yankees is beyond me.

        • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

          Did you ever figure out who that old guy singing with Eddie Vedder is???

        • Steve says:

          I just thought it was interesting that you were banging the drum about how unproven prospects, even a top 3 prospect like Myers is, are apt to bust, etc. But you don’t want the yankees to trade their prospects for “well, anyone”

          • Robinson Tilapia says:

            OK. I have no clue what to say there. Two completely different situations. Teams with completely different needs.

            I also could change my mind tomorrow. I didn’t know I was signing a deposition here.

          • JobaWockeeZ says:

            I have learned that no matter what the sport is, and no matter the team fans love their prospects and call every other one a risk. Everyone does it. I do it. It is what it is.

      • JobaWockeeZ says:

        OT: Myers is basically a Montero that strikes out more. Yet he was able to get James Shields who has the 10th best SIERA since 2010.

        He’s not old and you can’t use the tired, “NL is t3h s4x0r” argument. That’s someone Montero should have been traded for. In their prime, proven, reliable and relatively healthy. Shields wouldn’t have went to the Yankees but hypothetically if it’s a Montero for Shields swap and Shields got hurt then really you can’t blame Cash. But when every other pitcher gets hurt eventually it’s better to sue the only chip for someone who has been reliable.

        Not for a freaking Michael Pineda.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          There’s a pretty good argument that Montero got more than Myers.

          The Royals get two years of Shields and pay a decent amount for it, the Yankees got 5 years of Pineda the first two at the minimum. Pineda at 22 was a 3.2 fWAR SP, while Shields is in the 4s mosylt years.

          That Shields has been healthy doesn’t mean he might not hurt his arm tomorrow. All those IP are a double edge sword of having proven durable but having put wear on him. Guys like Mulder and Garcia were chugging right along at 200, 225 IP when their shoulders went.

          • JobaWockeeZ says:

            There can be a good argument that Montero got more than Myers but you can’t argue it well just yet.

            Also I’m not saying that hypothetically Shields also is not a risk. But if he so happened to get hurt then there’s really not much you can do since recent history is telling us he can handle it.

            There’s no such history on Pineda which made the risk greater.

        • forensic says:

          In truth, that’s a bit of a stretch because the Rays didn’t agree to Myers-Shields straight up. That’s why the other prospects and Davis were added.

        • YanksFanInBeantown says:

          “Myers is basically a Montero with more present power, hitting more HRs in 100 games at AAA than Montero has ever hit in a season, willingness to take a walk and an actual position but who strikes out more.”

          There, fixed that for you.

        • vicki says:

          yeah. myers doesn’t strike out a lot more. jesus is a hacker.

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      I hoped and thought it was the plan but after sensing Cashman’s frustration I doubt it’s the case.

  14. Yogiism says:

    I’m not advocating that this is the best idea for the team, but Mike Axisa wrote a post for MLBTR this afternoon about the Braves making a strong push for Choo. Let me ask you this; what about Curtis Granderson. B.J Upton in center, Granderson in LF and Heyward in RF would be a formidable trio. Choo and Granderson salaries are within range of each other (Granderson about $4m more), however Granderson has the greater value likely. Good for that stadium, just as good defensively (despite the BS UZR crap), power hitter, which is what they sorely need and I would imagine Granderson will easily be made a qualifying offer. Choo should be in demand, but makes you think, being the Braves, if they would risk it, when QA’s could be even slightly higher next offseason. Granderson will definitely receive multi year offers. No doubt. Maybe 3 or 4, but he will. I don’t think anyone on here can tell me that Granderson wouldn’t be a really nice fit in Atlanta. But I like Granderson, a lot, but if they could get 1 young arm in return I do it, especially considering what I am thinking below.

    Everyone is saying Cashman isn’t doing enough (maybe he is working on something?) and it has been rumored that he would discuss Curtis in a trade. What if he swaps Granderson for ?? and then turn around and offer Hamilton a 4 year $100mm deal. They could technically afford it and Cano next year. Would be tight, but possible with the ton of money coming off the books. I have concerns about Hamilton, but there is no arguing that the dude would hit 50-60 homers at Yanks stadium. Jeez, it’s ridiculous to think about actually. Is that a better scenario for the Yanks? Granderson for 1 more year or trade him, get something nice that’s young in return (wouldn’t be much) and then sign Hamilton?

  15. Long-Past-His-Day-Rod says:

    Lost in all the banter of the day has been discussion of one of the most burning questions of all: what on Earth is John Sterling’s home run call for Youkilis going to be?

    Another nuke from Youk!

    Kevin sends one to heaven!

    Youkilis just doesn’t miss!

    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

      I like the 2nd one.

      Hopefully it’s something good and he gets to use it often.

      I always liked “Bern, Baby Bern”. “a thrilla by Godzilla” and “Shane Spencer the home run dispenser ” best of all.

      • vicki says:

        most of my friends think i’m lying when i cite ‘homerun dispenser.’ to their credit.

        you didn’t really, seriously, like it. come on.

        in the case of jerkface. i think he’s gotta say “aaahh, kevin, you KILL US.”

        but whatever. how many days til pitchers and catchers??

    • vicki says:

      kevin rhymes with heaven, so heads up.

  16. The Real Greg says:

    Apparently Jobab will get along just fine with Youk.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-yo.....oward-youk

  17. croy says:

    With Ichiro essentially on board this may not make sense but would Boesh for Boone Logan make any sense? I know at one point Brennan had very high value but that has dropped with his subpar year.

  18. Need Pitching & Hitting says:

    https://twitter.com/PeterBotte/status/279061825381888001

    heh

    Peter Botte
    ?@PeterBotte
    Not saying the Rolling Stones are old, but Keith was just contacted by the Yankees to be their fourth outfielder.

  19. The Real Greg says:

    Nothing like delay from the censor.

  20. JobaWockeeZ says:

    Btw Mike this statement is kinda wrong.

    “It was his seventh consecutive season of 145+ games played and 22+ homers, and he’s the only big leaguer who can make that claim.”

  21. forensic says:

    Meaningless Trivia Time:

    A.J. Burnett is one of three pitchers ever who have a 4 strikeout inning and a 9 pitch, 3 strikeout inning.

    The other two are Felix Hernandez and Bob Gibson.

  22. Bavarian Yankee says:

    just read that Scott van Slyke has been DFAed. I wonder if the Yanks should grab him or even trade for him. Seems to be at least an average defender and he has some power.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      I saw that on MLBTR. My first though was “ANDY VAN SLYKE’S KID? HE MUST BE TWELVE.”

      Worth a flyer. Why not?

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