Marchand: Pineda could pitch out of the bullpen in the second half
ByVia Andrew Marchand: The Yankees have not ruled out using Michael Pineda as a reliever in the second half if there isn’t any room for him in the rotation. For what it’s worth, Joe Girardi said they consider him a starter. “That’s how I’ve seen him … I don’t see using him any other way right now, but a lot of things that have happened this year,” said the skipper.
Pineda, 24, got knocked around pretty good in his penultimate rehab start on Sunday, allowing four runs in three innings while throwing more balls than strikes for Double-A Trenton. There’s time for just one more rehab start before his 30-day window expires on Monday. Barring a DL-worthy injury or a trade involving two starters, I have to think the team will option Pineda to Triple-A for a few weeks after the rehab stint is over. That will push his free agency back a year. I’m not necessarily opposed to temporarily using him out of the bullpen down the stretch, but I’d prefer to see Pineda work on a set schedule with a routine so soon after shoulder surgery.
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Holy Hell, please…..just no. Let him build his innings in the minors if they aren’t going to activate him as a starter.
Pineda has never been in the bullpen, like Mike said so soon after shoulder surgery, I doubt he’ll be able to get loose fast enough.
Yeah, I mean this is just NOT a good idea…but is this report really cedible?
Joba 2.0 here we go again.
Nope.
Not sure I agree with it not being a good idea. Not sure if I agree either. If the plan is to just let him build arm strength prior to moving to the rotation, then it may not be a bad idea. It allows him to face tougher competition. If it’s just to build innings, then starting, even in AAA is the way to go.
I am opposed to him moving to the bullpen beyond this season, but using him out of the pen this year isn’t necessarily the worst idea, depending on the long term goal … if the report even has any credibility.
agreed
Wow. Leave it to the now most mis-managed franchise in the game to mkae this kind of decision. Totally disagree with this.
I know this is just an ESPN report, but still…good grief
Shit, they traded Pineda to the Angels?
ietc
What decision?
“That’s how I’ve seen him … I don’t see using him any other way right now, but a lot of things that have happened this year,”
“He’s a starter. We’re not looking at him as a reliever. But you never know what’s gonna happen.”
Non-story. Complete non-story.
Might as well use him as a reliever. That way we can fuck him up too.
Joba Syndrome.
Do Not Want. I have no problem with the idea of breaking guys in at the major league level as relievers, but that’s not the case here. He’s broken in. He’s had success as a starter at the major league level. If they feel that he’s not physically at a place where he’s superior to the options in the majors then leave him in the minors. Putting him in the bullpen serves no purpose that I can see.
We’re not putting him in the bullpen. Cash said he sees him as a starter.
It’s a non-story. He’s going to start.
Somebody start drafting the Pineda rules
To be fair the article says, “…if the right situation develops in 2013 he could pitch out the major league bullpen.” Nick Swisher came out of the pen once.
I am trying to grasp to something. Hopefully Girardi sticks with his view of him as a starter, and this source was just spitballing.
So did Pettitte, Mussina, Boomer and CC, if memory serves. “If the right situation develops…” could simply be “today is Pinny’s (see what I did there?) bullpen day and our pen is thrashed. Lets let him get his work in the game…”
Ah, that’s it! Missing from the quote was the phras, “in late October.” Now I am closer to ok with it.
But…but…his velocity is higher out of the pen. My god…this team has no clue how to build up young pitching. It’s all about the here and now for them. Frustrating to say the least.
I take whatever Marchand tweets with a grain on salt. I then lick the grain of salt and do a shot of tequila.
well played
I need more than that…
Jim is Drunk
Jim Wishes He Were Drunk
Anyone else think this is just the type of info that comes out right before something like this.
“We decided to keep him in the minors because we said there was no rotation spot, remember that, and we thought long and hard about the bullpen but decided against it.”
Like magic, an extra year of control.
meh. I’d rather keep him as a starter in AAA all year.
If the options are bullpen vs. AAA starter, I am with you. However, I do think Pineda should with with the club prior to September if there is any chance of making the playoffs. I think we would want him available for the postseason roster.
Pineda winds up as a ML reliever = someone should be fired. Simple as that.
What if Montero turns out to be a crappy platoon DH? Just kidding, we all know Jack Z is getting canned.
Montero’s future is irrelevant. The Yanks were putting him in packages for the likes of Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay. Instead our best trade chip in forever got used for someone not even close to that sort of pedigree and if he doesn’t turn out to be a good starter then we wasted our best chip. Even if that chip turns into a crappy platoon DH.
Fair point, but pedigree isn’t a guarantee of success either, and the age and cost of those other players was pretty prohibitive. Having Roy Halladay on this team right now would just be more wasted payroll space.
The Yanks were putting him in packages for a one year rental of the likes of Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay. Instead our best trade chip in forever got used for 5 years of someone not even close to that sort of pedigree, who had just come off a historic rookie season.
There, ftfy.
Historic? In what way?
He’s the only rookie in the history of baseball to have a K/9 over 9 and a BB/9 under 3 while pitching more than 130 innings.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leade.....;players=0
Here’s the proof, haha
Wow. Legitimately didn’t know that.
I had forgotten that. I was one of the few that was completely excited about this trade when it happened. We were going to have a trio of young power arms in the rotation with Pineda, Hughes and Nova.
I was heartbroken at losing Montero, but came around pretty quickly.
If he hadn’t mashed in that end of the year call up I think most people would have loved the trade. It’s was hard to let go of seeing the home grown kid be a legit middle of the order bat right away. SSS be damned.
It was a joke. I don’t actually believe they will put Pineda in the pen right away.
If the tables had turned the other way, the lead here would have been “The Yankees used their best trade chip for a rental on a guy like Halladay, they should have traded him for someone with team control like Pineda…”
IF you don’t believe me, go check out an eerily similar bunch of comments in any “potential trade targets” or “trade needs” thread over the past year… including this morning
Maybe Girardi also wants to use A-Rod as a bench player? I mean, Nix is a professional baseball player and Adams is a kid who plays with a lot of heart, would you really take them out of the line up for A-Roids?
Yes, until “A” proves that he is done.
Guys, it’s from Andrew Marchand. Stop acting like it’s from a credible source like Heyman or Rosenthal.
I mean, Girardi’s already essentially called bullshit on the report.
Will he be any good? Second half of 2011 was horrible with Mariners.
He was awful in July (6.75 ERA), bad in August (4.70 ERA, which is still better than Phelps’ season ERA), and fine in September (4.00 ERA, which would be the best of the staff other than Kuroda). Plus there’s the fact that he was pretty awesome in the first half, which there’s no reason to ignore. He might not be able to come back from the shoulder surgery, but 2011 Pineda would unquestionably be one of the team’s best starters.
His first half second half ERA split looks drastic 3.03 vs. 5.12, but his FIP were 3.24 and 3.78 and his xFIP actually showed that his second half was better with him getting 3.68 and 3.25. The difference between his first half was the difference between his BABIP and his HR rate. His Ks and BBs stayed fairly constant and his GB% actually increased dramtically from a poor 31% to a pretty good 45%. So I think he probably got a little fortunate in his first half performance, a little unlucky in his second half and as usually is the case his true talent lies in the numbers of the larger sample (the whole season).
Of course this was all before significant shoulder surgery, so who knows where he’s at now.
Oh I totally agree that his underlying performance didn’t change all that much, I just wanted to point out that his superficial results didn’t just completely crater in the 2nd half either, and that in September (granted in only 18 IP), he had an ERA that would 2nd best on the current staff (yes the ballpark was different, etc.).
But all of this is irrelevant depending on how he recovers from the shoulder surgery.
Yankees don’t rule EVERYTHING out. Until they actually make a move, I don’t give a fuck.
Leave it to them to screw up another pitcher. I’m really thinking our brass and baseball men are going all George costanza. Do the opposite hoping it works out. We have shown nothing but ineptness in developing our pitchers since what Pettite 20 years ago? Freakin unreal
Other than Joba, what other pitcher’s development do you have a problem with. Obviously you’d like some of them to have performed better, but that doesn’t mean they were developed wrong?
Melvin Croussett!
If they hadn’t screwed up his development he would not have left to save the earth from Godzillas and become the most interesting man in the world (the real one not like that pussy in the TV commercials)!
There’s an argument to be made that Joba’s downfall was his injury, not the usage switching.
He had a history of injuries; it’s why he fell so far.
I agree with that. I think Joba was jerked around. I also think that in no way ruined his career, I think injuries did that. I was just wondering who are all these pitchers that the Yankees are ruining? Yes a lot of their young pitchers have had their ups and downs, but that’s just the reality of young pitchers.
“Yes a lot of their young pitchers have had their ups and downs, but that’s just the reality of young pitchers.”
Yup yup.
Hughes, Kennedy, Chamberlain. Which one didn’t have “rules” and which one turned out the best? Dave Eiland and his “rules” is the culprit along with Billy Connors.
Sample size of 3: QED.
I literally don’t know how to answer your looking for. Is Hughes the best starter? Or is it Kennedy? Kennedy did have one great season, but career wise they have been similar. Kennedy also had TJ surgery and is currently horrible. They all had rules, but they are all extremely different. Hughes was a HS kid, they got to build up his innings in house. Joba was a college kid who came with an injury history, they had to try to do what was best for him. Kennedy didn’t have the stuff to be an elite reliever so his career path wasn’t complicated by that fact. Joba turned out worst because they thought that after his injury he couldn’t start anymore. Maybe that was a rash decision. But since he hasn’t been terribly durable or all that effective as a reliever I’m willing to assume that they may have been right.
If I had to pick 1 of the 3, I am taking Kennedy.
Okay, and that’s fine. But I don’t see how that makes any difference. The Yankees developed Kennedy. He was MLB ready when he went to the D-backs. In fact he was MLB ready the year before but then he had the weird aneurysm in his arm. And it’s not like they sold low on him. They traded him for a young cost controlled All-Star up the middle player, who has been very productive for us. So I’m not sure what your point is other than your mad that 3 top pitching prospects didn’t turn into Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz. Every year a prospect top 100 has a lot of pitchers on it. Most of them end up not making the bigs, back end starters or relievers. Very few become aces. That’s not a fault of anybody. It’s just a reality.
The Yankees developed Kennedy.
——————
Can we really give them credit for that???
Yes, because he never spent any time in Arizona’s minor leagues.
The only question is whether the Diamondbacks should get any credit for developing Kennedy.
The one with the 5.36 ERA in the NL West?
Good luck with that.
And when you say “injury” you mean the 3 years of injury issues… and the record of injury history from before he was drafted.
If you put it in perspective, it is a miracle that he’s had a career of this magnitude at all.
Maybe the switching lead to his injuries.
led**
Switching between the bullpen and rotation led to him landing on his shoulder wrong trying to get out of the way of a throw to second in 2008?
He would have had more experience fielding if he’d been a starter the whole time. Duh!
Pineda should not be put into the bullpen for the second half. But that doesn’t mean I’m against the idea entirely. If his rehab clock expires, and he spends a month or two in the minors getting some innings as a starter, and we didn’t have a need for him on the big league club, then I wouldn’t mind him coming out of the pen for a stretch run. But only if he gets to build up innings as a starter in AAA first and we’re still in contention.
I agree with what everyone is saying here. Putting a pitcher who just lost a year of development time in the bullpen instead of letting him pitch as a starter in Triple-A would be almost beyond comprehension and I personally would question the direction and the intelligence of the front office… more than I already do, anyway.
Please God no.
“Why do they gotta make him a starter he was dominant out of the pen”
-Mike Francessa May 5 2014
This is exactly what I fear. The Yankees have damaged my brain!
Bringing a young pitcher up through the pen is a reasonable approach to development that has worked for decades. I just cannot force myself to believe that the Yankees will do it well. Sure it works for 5th starter types but I feel like everyone looks at their performance in the pen and says “ah whatever”. Once a pitcher is dominant in the pen instead of saying “Wow this guy could be our next great starter” half of the witless ass clowns in the front office start screaming “we can never win again if this guy doesn’t pitch the 6th inning”.
Lol that’s what those clowns were screaming when they took Joba out of the pen. All we heard was put him back and he would be like he was in 07. Well he’s been back since 2010 and he is horrible as a reliever.
Non story. Complete non-story. Troll bait.
Ignored.
Well, you posted.
Quiet, you.
Now, I’m not in favor of putting Pineda in the bullpen at all, and I don’t hink the Yanks will actually do it but I’m curious, what would people think if Pineda turned into an elite closer putting up Mo-like numbers for the rest of the time he’s under team control?
I would think it was a reasonably positive conclusion to a bad situation. Most would think OMG the Yanks ruin pitchers.
People would probably think “Why the hell did they put this young pitcher who’s capable of being an elite starter into a relief role?”
Pineda shouldn’t touch the pen until he’s proven he can’t start big league games. If he’s healthy enough to pitch this season but not for the Yankees, he should be getting regular reps as a starter in AAA.
If this happens I feel like I will be forced to commit a felony.
Hold on, I am not threatening anyone in the Yankees organization and it could even be a victimless crime (like punching someone in the dark). The key is I need to go to prison and misbehave so I have my TV privileges revoked. That way I don’t have to witness the horror and tragedy that will unfold if this comes to pass.
I hope this is not true. If they do it gives all the more backing to this franchise having no direction.
Is it really that big a deal to leave him in AAA for 6 weeks to get accustomed to pitching as a starter again. Gain back confidence and bring him back as a September call up.
Putting him in the pen, makes no sense. The Yankees dont need a dominant reliever right now, they need a #2/3 next year though.
Pineda can start and either Phelps or Hughes can go to the BP, depending on which of the two melts down between now and when Pineda is ready to come up.
I’ve seen this movie before. It has a shitty ending.
I knew these comments would be bad, but holy shit. Joba Chamberlain has turned all of your brains into mush.
Pitching out of the pen does not make someone incapable of starting later on, and it’s entirely possible that he isn’t one of the Yankees’ 5 best starters now.
Who gives a rat – - – - ! He’s a pitcher. Let him pitch. Relief, start, fart …, who cares. If his arm falls off, than so be it. He’s a – - – -ing pitcher. Pitchers pitch ! All we need to worry about is winning !
Please no. I’d rather see the kid finish the year as a starter in Scranton, than pitch out of the pen in NY. He’s not only coming off of major shoulder surgery, he’s also a young pitcher. Give him the innings, routine, and developmental benefits that come with starting. Please.
It’s like “Before Joba” and “After Joba” have become the new “B.C.” and “A.D.” when looking at the calendar.
Never mind that, in 100 years of baseball history before Joba Chamberlain farted on the mound at Yankee Stadium for the first time (you know he did that first chance he got – I would have), pitchers transitioned from bullpen to rotation without dying.
That being said, I’d prefer him start as well. This looks like a non-story to me. I wouldn’t rule out pizza tonight. I’m most likely having something else to eat.
FINN THE HUMAN: What Ev,s AKA Whatever is best for the team.