Wednesday Night Open Thread

Update: Yankees and Cardinals unlikely to swing David Freese trade
Yankees, Kuroda shut out of AL Cy Young Award voting

If the GM Meetings are anything like the Winter Meetings, then they effectively ended today. The final day of the Winter Meetings (Thursday) are always a bore, the hotel is usually a ghost town after mid-morning. The Yankees didn’t make any moves today but Jon Heyman says a Hal Steinbrenner-led contingent (yay!) met with various agents throughout the day, including bigwigs Scott Boras and Dan Lozano. As I’ve been saying, the GM Meetings are all about laying ground work. The details are hammered out in the coming weeks.

Here is your open thread for the night. Both the Knicks and Nets are playing and I’m sure there’s college basketball on somewhere. Talk about any of that stuff and more right here. Enjoy.

Update: Yankees and Cardinals unlikely to swing David Freese trade
Yankees, Kuroda shut out of AL Cy Young Award voting
  • dkidd

    these old clips are bumming me out

    let’s look forward (to 2016)!

    • villapalomares

      I remember that game. I have to admit I stopped watching when the Twins scored 3 in the 14th. Turned it off, then later, while watching TV with the wife, flipped the channel to ESPN to check the other scores and saw the Yankees won it with 4 of their own. That was the first of many great Giambi moments.

  • OldYanksFan

    Yankees making a ‘full-court press’ to sign Brian McCann and Carlos Beltran

    • forensic

      Not so sure I’d like to give Beltran a 3rd year.

      I’m also getting concerned that they’re going to end up seriously overpaying, IMO, for McCann.

    • Frank

      Great plan. Pursuing 2 future DHs.

      • Need Pitching & Hitting

        Their DH time shouldn’t overlap, especially if Beltran only gets 2 years.

    • mustang

      I get the feeling that Beltran has always wanted to be a Yankees and might even take less just to be here.
      That’s for McCann the Yankees might just be trying to rise the price for everyone, but if they are serious I agree with forensic they probably overpay for him.

      • mustang

        “McCann is expected to get a deal in the range of $75-100 million over five or six years. As he was also tendered a qualifying offer by the Braves, he carries with him the added baggage of potentially costing his new team its top pick in the 2014 Draft. ”


        Too rich for many taste.

        • mustang

          Too rich for MY taste.

          So overpaying would be 100 to 120 Million over 5 or 6 years!!!!!!!!

          • mustang

            I guess the bright side is that they would pay that money to a 35 or 36 year old instead of someone pushing 40.
            That’s not much of a bright side but I guess I can see some of logic maybe.

  • nycsportzfan

    Anyone know when we’ll have a day where news runs rampid with signings everywhere? I like days like that, its fun. So far, Marlon Byrd is about the only one whos signed.

    • forensic

      December 10th.

      • nycsportzfan

        Do you think Beltran and McCann will be signed by someone by then?

        • forensic

          Beltran, quite possibly. Not really sure on McCann.

          • nycsportzfan

            I need some news! I’m sick of rumours. I want a few pegs to fll into place. Marlon Byrd and Nick Punto aren’t enough to wet my

    • Pat D

      Rampid? Come on, man, I can’t let that one go.

      • nycsportzfan

        of course you couldent.

        • jjyank


          Good god man. Just use the spell check. My eyes hurt.

          • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

            Methinks you missed the joke.

  • forensic

    Sweet! A Giambi video. I guess you do take requests. :-)

  • Lukaszek

    Damn, looking at clips of 2011 and 2012, I can’t help but think “what fun teams these were to watch”. I know that the difference between 2011-2012 teams and 2013 team is only ten wins, but seriously, it feels like a whole lot more than just ten wins.

    2011 team had that memorable April where the Yankees were launching homeruns like missiles. I loved watching Curtis Granderson (it was the first 40 homerun season I saw in my life, so that’s pretty special). 2011 also had games where the Yankees were winning with football-type scores. 17-3 demolition of Orioles, 18-7 derby against the White Sox, and of course, who can forget the 22-9 game against the Athletics? Damn that was a fun season.

    2012 was mad fun too. Cano’s June was the most amazing thing ever. Raul Ibanez was extremely clutch, getting an important late-inning hit seemingly every other week. Eric Chavez coming off the bench and hitting tape measure shots. The rock solid bullpen. Beating up the Red Sox was great too. Damn man I miss 2012 ;_;

    The good thing about 2013 is that I got to watch a team that was almost historically bad offensively. I think it kind of made me appreciate the seasons right before it. If I’m lucky enough to see teams similar to 2011 or 2012, then I will truly appreciate them.

    • forensic

      I loved watching Curtis Granderson (it was the first 40 homerun season I saw in my life, so that’s pretty special).

      Without putting too much thought into it, I think A-Rod’s 2007 is probably the most special Yankee season I’ve seen in my life. Maybe I’m missing something since I didn’t put much thought into it, but I think that’s gotta be up there. That 14 homer April was just absurd.

      • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

        The summer of Winfield vs Donnie Baseball was absolutely epic. Two guys on the same team – ours! – absolutely crushing it.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      There were aspects of 2013 that were extremely fun to watch. When they were playing beyond their means and overachieving like hell, it was awesome.

  • nycsportzfan

    Dexter Fowler being dangled. Any interest? A speedy player with alittle pop, but speed hasen’t really played its self out on the basepaths. Still, could put him in RF or CF and if we resign Reynolds, we’d have some serious pop against Lefties(soriano,reynolds,tex,fowler,Jeter).

    • dkidd

      i have an irrational player crush on d-fowl

      go get him!

      • dkidd

        just checked him home-road splits

        crush over


        • nycsportzfan


        • Pat D

          At least you performed your due dilligence.

  • nycsportzfan

    Hey Mike, you should put up your perdicted 25man roster for the yanks. A mix of what you think they’ll do and what you hope they’ll do. You could put it on a open thread on a boring night and we could talk about your team you perdicted.

    This would be mine.

    1B Mark Texiera/Mark Reynolds
    2B Robinson Cano
    SS Brendan Ryan/Derek Jeter
    3B Mark Reynolds/Eric Chavez
    C Dioner Navarro/ Frankie Cervelli
    OF Gardner/Beltran/Soriano/Ichiro/Wells
    DH A mix of guys above
    SP Sabathia/Tanaka/Nova/Maholm/Phelp(pineda if healthy)
    RP Robertson/Kelley/Warren/Balfour/J.Lopez/Cabral/Huff

    Our additons would be Beltran,Balfour,Chavez,Tanaka,Malholm,J.Lopez,Navarro.
    We resigned Reynolds,Ryan,Cano,and Kelley.

    Our opending day lineup against a righty(just for example)

    1). Brett Gardner CF
    2). Derek Jeter SS
    3). Robinson Cano 2B
    4). Carlos Beltran RF
    5). Alphonso Soriano LF
    6). Mark Texiera 1B
    7). Eric Chavez 3B
    8). Ichiro Suzuki DH
    9). Dioner Navarro C

  • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

    I’m extremely excited that ownership is meeting with agents. By which I mean that is terrible news.

  • Jimmy Rabbits

    In my heart of hearts, I don’t think the Yankees are really that close to being a legitimate contender on an annual basis. So my proposals will not lead to a quick fix here. With what I’m proposing for 2014, you’re looking at an 85- or 86-win team at best. But hopefully, this will lay the foundation for success into the next decade:

    1. Oppenheimer has 1 year left on his deal, but he’ll likely be out after next season. I would spend as much money as it takes to pick off at least 2 of the people in the Cardinals’ scouting department, preferably their minor-league development people.

    If you look at this org chart here (, they have at least a dozen lower-level people who have contributed to the most prolific farm system in the majors.

    You might not get any of their high-level directors, but bring in 2-3 of those people to work under Oppenheimer for a year and get a feel for what the Yankees have in their system. Then tell Oppenheimer to hit the road next October and promote the best newcomer to be the new director of scouting.

    I think that this move is more important than any player signing or trade that they could realistically do this offseason, so I’m listing it first.

    2. Sign Cano to a 6-year contract worth $165 million, with a seventh-year option that vests if he has a certain number of plate appearances in the sixth year (2019).

    This should serve both parties; Cano gets a deal with an average annual value of $27.5 million, which puts him at or near the top of the sport. No one in baseball will offer him a deal with a higher AAV, and the seventh-year option is relatively attainable for him, too.

    So if that seventh-year option vests, the deal is worth $192.5 million for a player who is 31 years old right now.

    It’s great for the Yankees because a) they keep their best player; and b) they’re not burdened by another excessive 10-year contract.

    That would be my one and only offer to him. If he is unhappy with the years or is hoping for a $200 million deal, I would say happy trails. He’s a great talent, but he’s not Miguel Cabrera. One player cannot carry a team, and Cano is not the difference between them being a championship contender.

    3. I think they need to sign three starting pitchers, and the first and most logical fit is Tanaka.

    They should make sure that they completely blow away all the competition with their posting bid, so I would post $95 million. It’s an outrageous number for a guy who’s never pitched in the majors, but it doesn’t impact their luxury tax number.

    Then I would sign him for a 5-year deal worth $60 million. That’s a lower AAV than what they paid Kuroda last season, it’s not a crippling deal in terms of its length, and Tanaka will be a bargain at $12 million per season if he pans out to be a 200-inning, 180-strikeout, sub-4.00 ERA pitcher for the next four or five years.

    4. Sign Jason Vargas to a 3-year, $27 million deal. I know that this guy thrived in Safeco, has been below-average on the road and is coming off a down season (marred by a weird blood clot, I think).

    But I just have a hunch that he could actually be a good No. 4 starter for the Yankees after CC, Tanaka and Nova. He has never been a hard thrower, so the fact that he’s 30 and might lose a tick on the fastball doesn’t bother me. These lefties always seem to get a little better with age; my guess is that they learn how to pitch.

    Again, he’s left-handed — so he essentially replaces Pettitte as the second lefty to provide balance to the rotation. I know he’s a fly-ball pitcher, but hopefully that won’t kill him at Yankee Stadium (can’t be any worse than Hughes). Also, check out his 3-year splits (2011-2013) against Boston, Baltimore and Tampa — surprisingly good!

    I’d rather give a 3-year deal to a 30-year old than give big bucks to guys like Garza, Ubaldo, Nolasco or Colon. I think Vargas is an affordable gamble for them.

    My plan B, in case someone outspends them for Vargas, would be to sign Kazmir to the same type of deal.

    5. Sign Michael Morse to a 2-year, $13 million deal. Another buy-low option, but I think he has much more upside as a third/fourth outfielder than Vernon Wells. And heck, if he returns to 2011-12 form, I’d start him every day in right field.

    Morse also can serve as insurance at first base if and when Teixeira gets injured again. Morse always has been one of those good “clubhouse guys,” something that can’t hurt a team that looks like it’s gonna have a bit of a leadership void.

    Again, look at his 3-year stretch in Washington from 2010-2012. If you can get .270, 20 HR and 65 RBI out of him in 450 plate appearances, that’s a steal at $6.5 million per year. That’s basically what Kendrys Morales is going to produce, and he’s looking for twice as much money.

    6. Sign Brendan Ryan to a 2-year, $8 million deal. He’s all glove and no stick, but the guy is so good defensively at shortstop. He’s a great insurance option for Jeter, and he can be their Opening Day shortstop in 2015 if there isn’t a better option.

    Ryan also could light a fire under Nunez, who I think needs to be pushed a little bit. They’ve kind of given Nunez the keys to the car as the heir apparent at either shortstop or third base.

    7. If you’re going to sign Ryan, you need to have another ground-ball pitcher potentially in the rotation. I would look to get either Vogelsong or Jake Westbrook on the cheap with a 1-year deal — kind of like what the Mets did last season with Shaun Marcum.

    It would be a “show-me” contract for one year — maybe $4-5 million.

    Then you would enter spring training with a rotation of Sabathia, Tanaka, Nova and Vargas/Kazmir with Vogelsong/Westbrook competing for the fifth spot with Pineda/Phelps/Nuno/Warren.

    8. They’ve squeezed as much as they’re going to get out of Boone Logan, but they will need another lefty out of the bullpen. Out of all the guys out there, the guy that intrigues me the most as a lefty specialist is Manny Parra, who I think they could get for one year at $3 million.

    9. They need a real starting catcher this season, but I don’t want to sign a veteran to a long-term deal. They should stay committed to Romine/Murphy/Sanchez, so I’d bring in Jose Molina on a one-year deal for $2 million.

    Molina is great at handling a pitching staff, he still throws the ball very well, and he could mentor the young catchers. I think he’d be a great guy to have ideally as a 60-game catcher, but he wouldn’t be awful if you needed to get 100 games out of him.


    That would be my plan for this offseason. I have no interest in McCann, Beltran, Garza, Ellsbury, Choo, Arroyo or any of these other guys. The Yankees are more than 2 or 3 players away from being relevant, but they could begin a rebuild with the moves that I’ve suggested.

    If you include players that I’d want to retain (Cano and Ryan) plus the $5 million savings from 2013-14 with Jeter’s new contract, they have $110 million coming off a $203 million payroll.

    The eight moves that I proposed will total $69 million annually (Cano 27.5, Tanaka 12, Vargas/Kazmir 9, Morse 6.5, Ryan 4, Vogelsong/Westbrook 5, Parra 3, Molina 2).

    That would give them a $162 million payroll — well below the $189 million threshold — before you even get into the A-Rod mess. I’m not committing long-term contracts to the best free agents of a mediocre class, I’m stabilizing my defense with Ryan and Molina, I’m adding “good guys” in Morse and Molina, and I’m buying low on post-hype guys in Vargas/Kazmir, Morse and Parra.

    Plus they will have plenty of extra money to spend in order to fill out the roster with smaller deals: maybe bring back David Huff, add another right-handed arm to the bullpen, maybe bring in another veteran power bat on the cheap to help on the bench.

    Let’s assume that A-Rod somehow finagles his way out of this suspension, or gets it reduced to 50, and therefore is a functional member of the team for the majority of the season. If that’s the case, here’s what they enter spring training with:

    1B: Teixeira
    2B: Cano
    SS: Jeter
    3B: Nunez (keeping the seat warm for A-Rod)
    LF: Soriano
    CF: Gardner
    RF: Ichiro/Morse
    C: Molina/Romine
    DH: Weigh station for veterans (Teix, Jeter, Soriano, Morse, etc.)

    SP: Sabathia
    SP: Tanaka
    SP: Nova
    SP: Vargas/Kazmir
    SP: Westbrook/Vogelsong/Nuno/Phelps/Pineda/Warren

    CL: Robertson
    RP: Claiborne
    RP: Parra
    RP: Kelley
    RP: Huff
    (Last 2 bullpen spots are up for grabs)

    BN: Wells
    BN: Ichiro/Morse
    BN: Romine/Murphy/Molina
    BN: Melky Mesa
    BN: Nunez/A-Rod
    BN: Ryan

    What do you think?