Yanks lose; vultures circle

Down on the Farm
Mattingly next in line, but what about Bowa?

The Yanks are now losers of 8 out of their last 9, including a very costly 5 out of 6 losses at the hands of the Boston Red Sox. The team looks anemic at the plate, and the pitching is in shambles. It’s safe to say that the Yanks haven’t looked this bad since the early 1990s. At this point, the Joe Torre Job Watch is official on. Hoping on the bandwagon today is ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick. Crasnick notes that Torre’s successor to this mess will have a pretty thankless job. I think it might be time for Joe to go.

What do you think? Should the Yanks fire Torre and go with some combination of Mattingly/Girardi/Bowa in an effort to light some fire under this team? Sound off in the comments. We’d love to hear your take on a topic that should dominate headlines until the Yankee ship is righted.

Down on the Farm
Mattingly next in line, but what about Bowa?
  • http://www.robjules.com Rob

    I’ve been a proponent of getting rid of Torre since he mostly single handily lost the ALCS against the Sux – at least in my opinion. Of course a lot of sitting on his hands in that series seemed to had come as a result of Zimmer not being by his side. His managing has only gotten worse. The Yanks are a very flat team, win or lose. I believe much of this comes from 2 factors, being a majority of mid-30’s veterans with no chance of ever losing their job or even getting benched for a game as long as Torre’s running the show. It’s like a country club inside that clubhouse. He doesn’t do anything drastic to shake the team up and even when he tries it cries of panic, such as Rivera in the 8th 10 days ago and Pettitte in relief, twice! On top of that, we know he’s never been a good manager of the bullpen, blowing out at least 1 arm a year in each of the last 5 seasons, but this year he has gone above and beyond trying to destroy our middle relief. We all understand that the starting pitching is in complete shambles due to injury, but can someone explain why he is so against letting a starter just take a 6-inning, 10 run beating one of these days, just to save whats left in the pen. It’s beyond ridiculous that Proctor and Viscaino pitch nearly everyday, and that’s not even an exaggeration. I’m not totally blaming Torre for the start they are going through, that would be naive considering the lack of pitching and the many hitting slumps currently taking place, but at the same time I don’t think it would hurt to get a new voice driving the Yankees, Mattingly is my choice. We are all thankful for how Torre helped guide us to those World Series, but lets face it, it’s been 6 years since we won. I’m almost shocked Steinbrenner has let him last this long. Let see a change made to stir things up and shuffle the cars a bit. That with the pitching getting healthier will only aid in the turnaround.
    So, I’m obviously in favor of Torre being sent home.

  • mg

    Yep, it’s time. Torre has done little to put us in a position to win and lately it’s become costlier and costlier. The last few seasons have been particularly bad and at this point I think that Torre is holding the team back. Although it won’t be pretty, I think handing the team to Mattingly early while there’s still a chance of salvaging the season makes sense. Keep Torre on is you need another disappointing season to prove to yourself that he’s not a very good manager. He’s just been given some very very good players over the years

  • Yankee Fan in Chicago

    It’s too early for such a move. Things looked worse at a later stage in the season in 2005 iirc.

    Torre’s gone after this year, I’d give him the opportunity to right the ship.

    Personally, I think 93 wins might be enough to take the East this season. The Sawx won’t keep up the torrid pace they’ve set. They’ll come back to earth just as they did last season. We’ll need to get hot, but I think we can pull off another Boston Massacre down the line.

    However, if things stay this way through May, then a change will be necessary. I’d vote for Bowa than over anyone else, b/c he has the passion that might light a fire under some of these players. Don’t know if I’d trust him w/ St. Phil’s arm tho.

    I’d then hand Girardi the job next season. I trust him to handle Phil, Joba, Kennedy, Betances, et al as they come through, and to tutor whoever replaces Jorge.

  • yankz

    SI.com says Mattingly would be next. If that’s the case, I’d rather have Joe. He’s the best at handling the circus, the players clearly love him (see LoHud) and are willing to work harder for him, and I don’t think Donnie has enough experience.

  • Ron

    While I’m no fan of Torre, I think firing him now would be a mistake – a panic move reminiscent of the pre-Torre era. The Yankees are obviously not as bad as their current record indicates. Let Joe finish the season, but under NO circumstances bring him back for ’08. I don’t know if Mattingly would be the right choice, but I’m almost certain Girardi would be the wrong choice. His act won’t play with a veteran club, some of whom are former teammates.

    That being said, someone has to tell Joe to let his starting pitchers try to work out of their jams. Joe always says it’s a long season, but it seems he manages every game like the 7th game of the WS.

  • mg


    “Cashman, trying to develop a similar young core, might only be a year or two behind the Red Sox. But Phil Hughes, Chase Wright and Co. are not yet ready to compete in the AL East. Clearly, Cashman’s biggest mistake last off-season was failing to obtain a sufficient late-20s complement to Wang — Matsuzaka, free-agent left-hander Barry Zito, someone.”

    I Blame Cashman for this mess and should get fired immediately.

  • http://www.robjules.com Rob

    I’m thankful we have Cashman, he is the only one who seems to understand the value of young pitching. I think his plan was not to go crazy last winter on another starter, such as Zito, and try to bridge the gap until next year when Hughes is for sure a mainstay and maybe even Wright and Clippard. Tho, I wish they never signed Damon who will look like a terrible signing by this time next year. He is aging quickly and he won’t be an adequate centerfielder next season. In retrospect they should have jumped on Beltran when they had the chance, he is still young and in his prime, not past it. Can’t wait to see if they let Giambi and Abreau walk, as they should have done with Matsui. Getting younger is the answer and the sooner we move on from Torre, who is a veteran players manager if their ever was one, the better.

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

    I wouldn’t go believing anything in that Fox article. 1) Hughes is ready to compete in the AL East. 2) Chase Wright is not in the plans for the future.

    I have a feeling that the Red Sox will be coming back to earth soon.

  • yankz

    That article is nuts. Yup, Cash didn’t blow a bajillion dollars on an unproven Japanese starter or a mediocre NL pitcher. Get rid of him now.

  • jb

    Moderated by River Ave. Blues. Cut-and-paste comments and off-topic comments will be deleted. Please keep your comments on topic.

  • Luddy Bazcej

    I love Torre, but he’s not manager for life. I think it’s a good time to make a change. I think it’s actually necessary and a year or so overdue.
    Here’s what I would do:

    Fire Torre.

    Add Girardi or Bowa if that doesnt happen. I dont think Mattingly is ready yet.

    I keep Cashman.

    Things need to be shaken up. Roster changes – Cairo and Menky are released or traded if they have any value at all. Melky and Nieves are demoted. If you dont perform you have to go, you cant stay because the manager likes you. I shuffle the bullpen around a bit. Mix in Bean more, Farnsworth more, and call up Britton too. If someone is burnt out after 15 innings, release him or demote him. Rotation is a disaster, so
    I make a deal for decent quality starter. I dont know who is available or not, but someone who can be a good 3rd rotation slot guy. Freddie Garcia or someone like that.

    Im no expert but we need to make some moves. People on the team are very complacent.

  • fenway guy

    No – do not fire Joe. We like the drama and the continued bad managing now that the talent is lower than in the past. He is finally exposed to the baseball world.
    Even Joe Morgan will have to be critical of the Joe (the best manager of all time) Torre


    Sox Fan.

    ps: thinking of Joe today as his brother goes through major surgery. who could focus on their job when going through something like this. God bless.

  • stepheneliot

    Somewhere along the way, the Yankee brain trust thought they had a better team in the off-season and in spring training than they’ve had on the field this year. Neither firing Torre or Cashman will solve the problem for this season.

    Their starting pitching is in disarray as we all know ( tired arms at best), their bullpen is unreliable, their bench lacks any punch. So who do you trade for/pick up and who do you give up in return. Personally, I don’t see an answer for now and what needs to be done will come over seasons like building a brick wall one piece at a time. Unfortunately, the Yankees don’t have a team that can get us into the playoffs let alone the World Series. And if I were Steinbrenner, I would be infuriated as to how I trashed 195 million dollars and got so little in return.

  • NYFan

    They won’t fire Torre this month for one good reason: Roger Clemens.

    The Yankees have no shot at Clemens if Torre is gone. So forget about all the speculation about Torre’s firing until Clemens announces where he plans to sign. Because until then, Torre is safe.

  • John

    Interesting observation on Clemens. How much would he love to come back to a team that is 4 or 5 games out and be the ‘savior’?
    I too think the Red Sox will come back to earth, and I also believe that the Yanks will begin to pick up the pace. In the Yankees’ first 23 games, Chase Wright, Jeff Karstens, Carl Pavano and Darrell Rasner made 8 starts (not counting Karstens’ broken leg). These four averaged 4.7 innings/ start. The rotation is now Hughes, Pettitte, Mussina, Igawa, Wang and they’ll start giving us 6 and 7 innings again.

  • Pingback: The Pitch | The web’s most original and interactive baseball talk podcast. » Blog Archive » Do you care about a sock? Pitching’s weak, kids impress; we remember Josh Hancock

  • Pingback: Mattingly next in line, but what about Bowa? at River Ave. Blues

  • http://jeteupthemiddle.blogspot.com Jeteupthemiddle

    Bowa would be a terrible choice.

    It isn’t good when his own players despised him.

    I don’t know if Mattingly would be a good choice either, but he is clearly next in line.

    For the record, I don’t think Torre will be fired (though, I wouldn’t be entirely shocked if he were), nor do I necessarily think he should be fired.

  • Pingback: River Ave. Blues » Mattingly next in line, but what about Bowa?