It’s the Return of the Son of Johan Santana!

Bedard headed to Seattle
A few months late

Short and sweet because everyone knows where we stand on this topic. Let’s play connect the dots:

So it seems that this saga will play itself out in the next 10 days. Somehow, I don’t think the Yanks are quite yet as out of it as we thought. Surprise.

Bedard headed to Seattle
A few months late
  • SPOONMAN

    WHEN WILL YOU EVER JUST SHUT UP, HANK?!?!? LET CASHMAN DO HIS JOB, HANK! EAT MY ASS WITH A SPOON, HANK! YOU’RE AS USELESS AS “SAGGA”!

  • Rich

    The irony is that if in fact Lester is off the table, a package built around IPK may be the best offer out there. The issue then becomes (assuming that the Yankees are willing to take on payroll without a comparable offset, e.g., trading Matsui) are the Twins willing to accept that offer (while absorbing a PR hit) after having turned down a prior offer that included Hughes?

  • whozat

    Actually…that article doesn’t say at all that Hank will “only be so patient with the young pitchers.”

    Hank said “if we miss the playoffs, I don’t know how patient I’ll be. But it won’t be against the players. It won’t be a matter of that. It will be a matter of, maybe certain people in the organization could have done something else.”

    Presumably, that’s tough talk at Cashman or something. But he explicitly said NOT the players. So…kind of misleading, guys.

    But, if Lester’s off the table, that’s hilarious. I wonder if Kennedy, Horne, Melky and a spare part gets it done. Beats whatever the Mets are offering.

  • mustang

    I totally agree with Rich and now that Mariners seem to be getting Bedard that another possible playoff team. The Yanks might be fighting just to get into the playoff. I’m all for the youth movement but who is ready not to make the playoff. I think IPK is still to much of unknown to pass up Santana. If you can make this deal without losing Hughes or Joba how can you not do it. I still thinking something a long the lines of Kenndy, Gardner,Gonzalez, Igawa and Marquez or replace Melkly somewhere in there. Just don’t want to take such a risk on the youth in the year were closing down the old lady. She should go out in style. I just Hope this ends in ten days because i’m sick of the whole thing !!!!!

    • TurnTwo

      agreed. Bedard’s trade is a blessing and a curse in the sense that you dont see him 3-4 times a season by playing with Baltimore, but Seattle might have been the woorst place for him to end up, in that he might actually do more damage by winning games for a better team you are actually in competition with.

      I really think a IPK, Marquez, AJax, and a 4th player is enough to trump the other offers on the table. With the rumors going around about the Twins being interested in Patterson or Lofton as a stop-gap, it would make sense to see the Twins interested in AJax, who has the potential to develop into their own version of a Granderson-type player.

      I’ve changed my own mindset to where I would draw te line at Phil Hughes now, and I would not trade both Tabata and AJax in the same deal, but really anyone else should be on the table.

  • Stephen

    Of course I think it would be ridiculous for the Yanks to reject a trade centered around only IPK and Melky. However, I was wondering who would go into CF in that scenario. People seem to take the Melky portion of the deal for granted. Do people think that Gardener is good enough to take on an every day role?

    • dan

      If Gardner isn’t ready for the role, Damon could be there temporarily until he is ready. The OF would be thing for a little while, so it would be interesting to see what would happen, especially considering Matsui’s knee.

    • TurnTwo

      its been reported the Twins arent very high on Melky, which would prob work out better for both teams in the long run. The Yankees get to keep their opening day CF for 2008, and the Twins get a CF for the future to build around with Young and Cuddyer.

      Especially if you are standing firm on Hughes, you need to include someone in the proposal with legitimate upside and all-star potential, and AJax provides that moreso than Melky does at this point, anyway.

  • mustang

    whozat deal sounds good to me…. the Twins GM got played plain and simple. Now he going to get 50 cents on the dollar… The Red Sox played him like a fool

  • mustang

    Well you also have Jackson and Tabata if your going with a youth movement then do it. From all accounts that i read here and other places Gardener is ready for at least a part time role in CF.

  • mustang

    I think i rather take the risk of getting Santana and looking for a CF. CF may not grow trees, but try to find a lefthand ace starting pitcher !! Good Luck

  • Malcard89

    i have a very bad feeling this is going to end in disaster, aka hughes being traded, winning 3 cy youngs in minnesota and santana making $25 million per year. i have no confidence in the yankee’s front office’s ability to overcome hank’s reign of terror.

  • mustang

    I hope your wrong Malcard89. As much as i want Santana i would not give them Hughes. Even more so now that Boston pulled Lester.

  • mustang

    But I can see it happen with Hank. Man the apple didn’t fall far from the tree with that one. LOL

  • YankCrank20

    with how this is all working out, i wouldn’t even gives up kennedy for santana right now. this has been so drawn out, the best case scenario is the yankees keeping the big three and melky, let marquez and horne (possible arms in the santana deal) continue to develop and probably become big parts of our pen this year, and keep our payroll the way it is until next year when giambi/mussina/abreu/pettitte come off the books (granted, we’ll bring some of them back, i can see abreu and pettitte). id rather keep young, talented and cheap arms under control and save the money for texiera or, if i remember correctly, k-rod being a free agent

  • E-ROC

    The Yanks should just keep their arms. A Yankee starter is bound to get injured, as it has happened the last couple of years. If the Yanks make a trade, they’ll want to acquire a closer to setup like Joe Nathan, Huston Street, or Brian Fuentes.

  • Hollaforskolla

    i see the yanks possible putting together a package similar to that of the mets’ but a little better

    Kennedy
    Tabata/Jackson
    Horne
    Marquez
    and one other lesser prospect.

    This has 4 of our top 10 prospects according to that most recent rankings that was posted.

    Side note if we ever were to include melky i see the yankees making a move for corey patterson..a #9 hitter witha glove

    • JT Bk

      Our top 10 by far blows away the mets top 10 prospects so there is no need to go so far to include kennedy, horne, marquez, and tabata/jackson just to top the mets offer.

      If the mets are the top player in the Santana deal, we shoudlnt be in any rush to trade away so much of our youth. I’m not advocating keeping everyone, but we should probably invest it in bullpen relief instead. Let’s not panic just because the Mariners went out and got bedard (which hasnt been finalized).

      In the end, the angels are the ones who need to worry, and how much better have they really gotten with the addition of hunter. The Angels and mariners havent done enough to convince me that 2 teams will be coming out of the west.

  • Ricochet

    Make no mistake the Yankees want Johan Santana no matter what anybody says but they won’t make the deal at the cost of the Twins demand in Phil Hughes.

    I disagree that the Yankees should hold onto ALL the arms that they have, the Yankees have a surplus and IMO the Yankees should take advantage of it as long as Hughes is out of the equation.

    Give them there choice of either Melky or Austin Jackson.

    Ian Kennedy

    Alan Horne

    and another pitcher as well as Alberto Gonzalez.

    The Yankees don’t have the room in the rotation for all these guys anyways and while they aren’t top of the line starters but Kontos and Pope as well as Sanchez and Garcia returning from TJ surgery. These guys all have MLB talent and keeping them in the minor when they are ready isn’t doing anybody any good and then there is the next generation of thats right on there heels and that group has some more Hughes and Joba’s and those kids aren’t getting traded at this time.

    I think the Yankees would like that other pitcher to be someone like Igawa, Karstens or Wright but in the end it might have to be Marquez, Garcia or Ohlendorf.

    If thats what it take you do it because the Yankees have the arms and it give the Yankees a better chance to win now and in the future.

    A rotation of Santana, Wang, Pettitte, Hughes and Joba and the 6th starter in Mussina.

    Pettitte is going to be back in ’09 and other than the extra starting pitcher in Moose, the rotation would stay the same for ’09 so those pitching prospects other than a spot start won’t have a spot in the rotation anyways.

    The best move as long as the demand for Hughes is no longer there is to deal for Johan Santana IMO.

  • Ricochet

    Hollaforskolla, I agree but I know many in the Yankee org. that just go ga-ga over Tabata, I don’t see him being dealt at all.

    Horne and Kennedy is a given as is a choice between Melky or Jackson.

    I’m afraid it would have to be someone like Marquez but I would be hopeful that Igawa or even Ohlendorf but regardless I pull the trigger on such a deal.

    The Yankees rotation would be set for this year and next and maybe even longer and that they could replace Pettitte from within with someone like Heredia, Betances, Brackman or Nova.

    The Yankees aren’t going to go with 3 young OF’s so it’ either Tabata & Melky or Tabata & Jackson, so either way I see one of the two moving on.

  • James “Lil Jimmy

    I’d be down for the Kennedy, Tabata, Horne, Marquez and I other prospect deal. I dont think they should deal Phil. Especially now that he has a blog we can follow :)

    I just hope they trade Santan somewhere soon, I’m sick of these lame ass rumors popping up every week! I’ve never been so sick of a trade rumor, holy shit already!!

  • LiveFromNewYork

    The Twins should hire Scott “overplay my hand” Boras. He fits in nicely.

    The Twins were fools, complete fools, for not jumping at the Hughes offer. Now we’re not trading Phil (thank goodness). I would go with IPK, Horne and Melky and that’s it.

  • Jeff

    The Twins would have pulled the trigger if Ajax was in the trade with Hughes… If you put Ajax with IPK et al this thing might jst happen. The idea of aquiring the best pitcher in baseball for IPK, Ajax, Gonzales, Horn, Igawa… sounds great to me.
    As the team stands right now it would be a battle with Boston… if we had a strong year from Santana followed by Wang, Pettit, Hughes and Joba we could blow everyone out of the water.

  • http://lbaprequel.xesf.net/ LBA Prequel

    Dunno where my previous post to Malcard went, but FWIW, Hughes is off the table according to ESPN.

    http://bronx-bomberz.blogspot.com/2008/01/report-yankees-pull-hughes-off-table.html

  • Bo

    “I’d be down for the Kennedy, Tabata, Horne, Marquez and I other prospect deal.”

    Really? Thanks for that. Have you ever seen any of them play?

    What if Tabata is a young Manny Ramirez like some scouts have said?

    Is it worth it then??? WHat if the Yanks consider IPK a #2 pitcher? What if they consider Horne and Marquez #2 types too?

    I understand fans out there making obscene trade offers when they just read BA’s top minor leaguers list but have some sense.

    • James “Lil Jimmy

      “Really? Thanks for that. Have you ever seen any of them play?” Yes

      “What if Tabata is a young Manny Ramirez like some scouts have said?” What if theyre not? Prospects arent guarantees for anything. Johan is an established major leaguer.

      “Is it worth it then??? WHat if the Yanks consider IPK a #2 pitcher? What if they consider Horne and Marquez #2 types too?” The Yanks and 1000 fanboys like yourself may consider IPK a #2 pitcher…so far he’s thrown a handful of games. Calling Horne and Marquez #2’s as well is just wishful thinking. Neither have pitched a single inning in the majors. They can turn out to be busts.

      • TurnTwo

        agreed.

      • Old Ranger

        Luckily, I saw all of them play last summer. Being ret. (over40yr. army)I get the chance to go wherever I want to. I get to see these guys play about 15/20 games a year…along with fishing. I like the guys we have, very much. Santana did not pitch that well against the eastern division. Now, I know he will pitch in lefty friendly The Park. But what about the other times he has to pitch at Boston, Bal, or many other parks that are not as nice to leftys. He gave up a lot of homers and did not finish the year very well…not throwing his slider, lost MPH on fastball etc. To me, these are all red flags, plus he has a lot of innings on that left arm.

    • TurnTwo

      i’ve never heard a scout say Tabata was a young Manny Ramirez, anywhere.

      i’ve never heard IPK referred to as a #2 pitcher, anywhere, let alone Jeffrey Marquez.

      while you cant freely give away and sell off the system, there is a real danger when you too highly overrate your prospects, too.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

        I’ve read the Manny Ramirez comp a few times.

        • TurnTwo

          where?

          • Steve S

            It was mentioned on the Hot Stove report on YES and they did make the comparisons two years ago at the futures game. However, they did qualify it by saying that he hasnt shown Manny’s power, so I dont know how that can be the greatest comparison.

        • James “Lil Jimmy” Norden

          15 years or so ago i remember reading brien taylor was going to be the next yankee pitching messiah…

          • TurnTwo

            and you know, Victor Diaz, superstar prospect with the Mets a couple years ago, was the next Manny Ramirez, too.

            • http://yankeesetc.blogspot.com/ Travis G.

              hold on, maybe brien taylor would have been, but he got injured in a bar fight, ending his career. it was nothing baseball related.

              the Manny comps are accurate as far as patience, discipline, line drive ability, but yes, so far (as a 19 yo), he hasn’t shown great power. but he had hand surgery this winter, so if that Manny comp is true, this is the year we might see it. take a look at his ABs from the 06 Futures Game vs. hughes (just 17) and in 07 ST with the Yanks (just 18, and he lined an opposite field HR). he looks more polished at the plate than half the current Yankees!

              i have never seen Ajax though, so it’s tough for me to call the two.

  • Bo

    Malcard89 says:

    January 28th, 2008 at 12:52 am (Reply)
    i have a very bad feeling this is going to end in disaster, aka hughes being traded, winning 3 cy youngs in minnesota and santana making $25 million per year. i have no confidence in the yankee’s front office’s ability to overcome hank’s reign of terror.

    Yea, its been such a “reign of terror”. Hes signed all his free agents and kept and stockpiled young talent.

    Such a reign of terror! Heaven help us Yankee fans from mean Hank!!

    • Count Zero

      LOL – don’t you need at least a couple of years at the helm to create a “reign of terror”? I mean, a reign of terror in just three months would require some pretty drastic action on his part. ;-)

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

        I think we should consult Robespierre on this one.

  • Bo

    Just because you havent heard what the Yankees think of a prospect doesnt mean thats not how they view them.

    Just be real careful about packaging prospects that you have never seen and only know there names by reading RAB.

    I think we’re all grateful for the Yanks rating their prospects in the 90’s and not selling them off. That’s a GM’s job. To fogire out who to trade and who to hold onto.

    Teams rate their own players as much as they rate other systems. So Id be wary about just throwing names into a pile and saying ‘hey make the trade’

  • Barry

    no way, your kidding, he didnt just say what i think he did, did he?

  • Jeff

    I may not have seen all the prospects play but I have seen Santana kick some major ass over the past couple of years. If they can make this deal… I say do it. IPK and Marquez are not going to pitch like Santana and we can afford to replace the outfeild prospects which are no guaranttee.

  • Hollaforskolla

    Bo:

    I follow the yankees more than anyone I know. I wasnt creating a trade just based on “prospects that you have never seen and only know there names by reading RAB.” So dont assume stuff like that.

    First look that I never said the yankees woudl do it, I merely said I wouldnt be suprised if an offer liek that was put on the table. But you have to think about the yankees system for a minute. We have a surplus of pitchers, which is a great thing, but we do not have space for everyone. With Wang, Joba, Hughes and Kennedy we have 4 young pitchers that can be around for a while ideally. So that means for all of our prospects we have 1 rotation spot. Now the offer i mentioned would in essence be replacing Kennedy with Santana, and yes we would lose some prspects but we still have a couple handfulls that are not worthy.

    But again, dont just assume my man.

  • Malcard89

    to sum up “reign of terror”:

    paying mariano $15 million per year for 3 years, when he only deserved and would have gotten $12 million per year.

    giving alex rodriguez the same contract he would have gotten anyway after he made his pathetic attempt to get an even bigger contract elsewhere.

    making deadlines, remaking deadlines, re-remaking deadlines for santana.

    by my quote, i meant that he has no baseball smarts at all, the complete opposite of the calm and collected cashman. his quotes in the papers make players more expensive for the yankees to retain, he has no idea what hughes means to the future of this team, and somehow he seems to think that the lack of a championship is all cashman’s fault, hence his quote that there will be a price to pay if the yanks dont make the playoffs this year. if thats not tyranny, i dont kno what is.

    • SS

      Paying Rivera that much isn’t a big deal – there’d be a much bigger hit if he left in terms of PR. Can you imagine Mo playing for another team?

      More importantly, agreeing to sign A-Rod was huge – 2008 would be a complete loss if A-Rod wasn’t back. And they got him for about 25 million less than he’d probably have gotten from a team like the Angels. It’s not terrible.

      Is Hank the sharpest knife in the drawer in terms of baseball savvy? No, probably not. He’s more like you and me: A fan who wants to win at all costs. If you want an owner who doesn’t root for the team, I suggest you start supporting the Twins.

  • Jeff

    Giving up 15mil to Mo was Hank’s fault and not Cashman’s?
    And I’d like to see what the team would look like if A-Rod didn’t come back. …One of your beloved big three would be pitching for the Marlins next year.
    I do agree that he should make it a point to steer clear of the media more than he does.

  • Adrian-Retire21

    Giving $28 million to Roger Clemens is stupid thats Cashman.A great guy to get young players but has been horrible in the free agent market.SAntana like Beckett is ready to go but because Santana is a great pitcher Cashman can’t pull the trigger.